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Commands/systems you dislike, and proposed alternatives (Read 3630 times)

Started by Loona, April 08, 2010, 12:22:55 pm
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Loona

Commands/systems you dislike, and proposed alternatives
#1  April 08, 2010, 12:22:55 pm
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Most people in this forum are fans of fighting games to some extent, and some work on their own takes on characters and games with Mugen, which provides the opportunity of doing some things differently.

That being said, what are some things about games you like that you feel could have been done differently, yet you never (or rarely) see done? How would you change them?


One example that comes to mind is multi-part special commands like Fei Long's triple QCF+punch.

As far as I'm aware, there's no possible variation on the move other that not continuing it once the 1st punch is out, so using the same command one or two more times seems like adding an unnecessary layer of execution to it (you've already stated an intent to use it with the 1st QCF+punch).

IMO, the move could simply be continued by not letting go of the punch button in question - let go of it (the game supports negative edge) by the time the animation of the 1st punch and it stops; keep holding it (or press and hold it before the initial punch is over, ins case you activated it with negative edge), and the move continues.
(partially inspired in things like some Soul Calibur specials, where keeping a button held after a move may have you go into a non-default stance from which you can use other moves).

That command structure makes a bit more sense when there are branching paths to it, like Kyo's flaming punch chains - then again, I'm not well versed enough in those to know if the differences between their possibilities are worth it beyond the initial pick of strong or weak punch, which have significantly different properties - but with a lack of variety it doesn't really seem to be worth it.

It almost makes sense in Geese's case for the Deadly Rave, since one of his gimmicks is being a hard opponent when controlled by a computer not bound by command execution or human reflexes, and hard to use by a human player at the level the computer can to achieve similar results, but applying that sort of thing to a super is even stranger IMO...

Elix

Re: Commands/systems you dislike, and proposed alternatives
#2  April 08, 2010, 12:47:52 pm
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Loona said, April 08, 2010, 12:22:55 pm
One example that comes to mind is multi-part special commands like Fei Long's triple QCF+punch.

As far as I'm aware, there's no possible variation on the move other that not continuing it once the 1st punch is out, so using the same command one or two more times seems like adding an unnecessary layer of execution to it (you've already stated an intent to use it with the 1st QCF+punch).
The first two hits are relatively safe if being blocked and the 3rd hit is very easy to punish because of the long recovery frames. The fact that you can either continue with the second and third attacks or stop anytime and do something else adds to Fei Long's mind games. But your point was that the execution was hard... rudundant? I don't think so. Maybe you need more practice? As Fei Long's three punches in that move, for example, are very similar it's only logical to make them execute the same way, i.e. QCF+P, QCF+P, QCF+P.
Last Edit: April 08, 2010, 01:20:11 pm by Elix

S.D.

Too impractical, what he said, you need more practice.
#3  April 08, 2010, 01:13:31 pm
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Agreed. Also (At least in SF4) Feilong can Rekkaken (1 hit), short pause, cLP , link into a complete Rekkaken (3 hits)
The suggested easy/lazy mode shortcuts are highly impractical and get in the way of said links, the same goes for Geese & Rock's Deadly Rave. Stick to SoulCalibur or something.

Loona

Re: Commands/systems you dislike, and proposed alternatives
#4  April 08, 2010, 01:31:27 pm
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Elix said, April 08, 2010, 12:47:52 pm
Loona said, April 08, 2010, 12:22:55 pm
One example that comes to mind is multi-part special commands like Fei Long's triple QCF+punch.

As far as I'm aware, there's no possible variation on the move other that not continuing it once the 1st punch is out, so using the same command one or two more times seems like adding an unnecessary layer of execution to it (you've already stated an intent to use it with the 1st QCF+punch).
The first two hits are relatively safe if being blocked and the 3rd hit is very easy to punish because of the long recovery frames. The fact that you can either continue with the second and third attacks or stop anytime and do something else adds to Fei Long's mind games. But your point was that the execution was hard... rudundant? I don't think so.

The point was once the initial command was executed, holding the button would let you control how long you want to continu with the move - want only 2 punches, hold it until the 2nd punch then let go; want to do something else after the 1st punch, then let go of the button right away, do whatever you want, repeat again if you want for the preferred extent of the move.

If the difference between the timing of the QCF+Ps is relevant for anything other that continuiing or interrupting the move, something like "direction + button" could be an alternative.
Leona's fwd+D extension to her D Grand Saber comes to mind - maybe not the best example since it's a single extension instead of part of a bigger multi-part move, but the principle seems to work there...

Elix

Re: Commands/systems you dislike, and proposed alternatives
#5  April 08, 2010, 01:57:19 pm
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Loona said, April 08, 2010, 01:31:27 pm
The point was once the initial command was executed, holding the button would let you control how long you want to continu with the move - want only 2 punches, hold it until the 2nd punch then let go; want to do something else after the 1st punch, then let go of the button right away, do whatever you want, repeat again if you want for the preferred extent of the move.
I don't think that it would be any easier. Holding a button and waiting for a moment to release takes no less brain activity than mechanically inputting the same command as the previous one. Try it yourself.
Loona said, April 08, 2010, 01:31:27 pm
something like "direction + button" could be an alternative.
Now that would oversimplify Fei Long's controls. Rekkaken is his main damaging move. It must take some effort to be able to play a character. Game developers determine the price of a move in terms of its execution basing on that move's value. Zangief's piledriver is an awesome move, therefore you must be able to do 360° motion to execute it. HCB or HCF would have made Zangief cheap. I think I made my point.

Just No Point

Re: Commands/systems you dislike, and proposed alternatives
#6  April 08, 2010, 02:13:12 pm
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I used to think command shortcuts wouldn't be so bad till SF4  :S

Loona

Re: Commands/systems you dislike, and proposed alternatives
#7  April 08, 2010, 02:30:20 pm
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Elix said, April 08, 2010, 01:57:19 pm
Loona said, April 08, 2010, 01:31:27 pm
something like "direction + button" could be an alternative.
Now that would oversimplify Fei Long's controls. Rekkaken is his main damaging move.

The complete motion would become something like qcf+P, f+P, f+P wit my suggestion, which is not that different in difficulty from several other characters' main damaging moves.

At least I'm hoping you're not thinking I was suggesting skipping the QCF completely...

The initial part would involve the typical intentional command with all its usual execution, but after that it could be a matter of timing and providing the option to continue or not, not unlike Geese's Deadly Rave.


It's just a minor issue (finding the extra QCFs in the middle a bit superfluous) and a proposed alternative of mine.

Anyone else has others?

TempesT

Re: Commands/systems you dislike, and proposed alternatives
#8  April 09, 2010, 02:47:00 am
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Instant air fireballs.

Make them UF + PUNCH :wacko:

GT

Re: Commands/systems you dislike, and proposed alternatives
#9  April 09, 2010, 02:51:44 am
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Prince Jango said, October 07, 2011, 11:45:18 pm
Yeah Titiln, in fact, You Made Him

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Re: Commands/systems you dislike, and proposed alternatives
#10  April 09, 2010, 03:25:46 am
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Instant Kills.

Then again it's always funny when your friend ends up doing his, completely missing and then laughing followed by completely fucking him up in the next five seconds

sooner or later, everybody puts up with xiangfei
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Re: Commands/systems you dislike, and proposed alternatives
#11  April 09, 2010, 03:49:26 am
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The problem with making systems easier, means that certain things that are balanced out by being difficult suddenly become guarantees.


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They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance.

Jesuszilla

Re: Commands/systems you dislike, and proposed alternatives
#12  April 09, 2010, 04:47:22 am
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S.D.

Re: Commands/systems you dislike, and proposed alternatives
#13  April 09, 2010, 05:15:48 am
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Loona

Re: Commands/systems you dislike, and proposed alternatives
#14  April 09, 2010, 02:35:37 pm
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Elix

Re: Commands/systems you dislike, and proposed alternatives
#15  April 09, 2010, 02:45:20 pm
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And you're completely missing the joke.  :)

Loona

Re: Commands/systems you dislike, and proposed alternatives
#16  April 09, 2010, 02:54:33 pm
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Not really, just trying to get the topic back on track.

The way I see it, one of the points of having a fighting game section in a Mugen forum is encouraging the understanding of existing games in order to refine ideas for (original) character and game creation.

Questioning what established games do and pondering on alternatives seems to me that it's something worth doing.


If some people want to intentionally miss the point as if I were advocating invencible full-screen normals for the lulz, so be it, but I'd rather not let that get on the way of others bringing up their points if they have any.

K.O.D

Re: Commands/systems you dislike, and proposed alternatives
#17  April 09, 2010, 02:58:39 pm
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tekken does shitty simple direction + button commands

it sucks

c001357

Re: Commands/systems you dislike, and proposed alternatives
#18  April 09, 2010, 03:05:42 pm
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so does sf, kof,

K.O.D

Re: Commands/systems you dislike, and proposed alternatives
#19  April 09, 2010, 03:06:33 pm
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yeah no, tekken does that for nearly every move while sf/kof do it for command moves

Loona

Re: Commands/systems you dislike, and proposed alternatives
#20  April 09, 2010, 03:08:02 pm
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K.O.D said, April 09, 2010, 02:58:39 pm
tekken does shitty simple direction + button commands

it sucks

How would you change its command style if you could?
Or what games with similar type of movesets do you think got commands right?

Regarding 3D fighting games with a comparatively more down-to-earth style that your average 2D game, I find Virtua Fighter's use of only 1 kick and 1 punch button a bit too limiting, so compared to that, Tekken's use of a button-per-limb system seems a bit more reasonable and intuitive, but I never got that much into it.

Still, some people swear by VF's depth, which is intriguing - a little less so when reading about the involved mind games, but on the whole the series doesn't appeal to me much.

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Re: Commands/systems you dislike, and proposed alternatives
#21  April 09, 2010, 03:12:57 pm
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K.O.D said, April 09, 2010, 03:06:33 pm
yeah no, tekken does that for nearly every move while sf/kof do it for command moves

becuase its a 3d fighting game where those controls makes sense? or would you rather play fuc

K.O.D

Re: Commands/systems you dislike, and proposed alternatives
#22  April 09, 2010, 03:14:55 pm
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sfiv and kof mi say hi

Vans

Re: Commands/systems you dislike, and proposed alternatives
#23  April 09, 2010, 03:15:22 pm
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my favorite game is buriki one.

up, up right, right, down right, up up, down up. Ko-oh ken.
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Re: Commands/systems you dislike, and proposed alternatives
#24  April 09, 2010, 03:17:24 pm
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Evil zone.
Up up block for a neutral jump.

Loona

Re: Commands/systems you dislike, and proposed alternatives
#25  April 09, 2010, 03:22:54 pm
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Vans said, April 09, 2010, 03:15:22 pm
my favorite game is buriki one.

up, up right, right, down right, up up, down up. Ko-oh ken.

The command scheme on that one has intrigued me ever since I 1st read about it.
It certainly came up with an interesting way of avoiding the unusual amount of crouching and jumping in most games you wouldn't see nearly as often in a real fight - my imagination probably isn't enough to figure out how well that works in practice, especially stuff like grappling moves and counters (one of the characters does Aikido, so that has to be there).
I cannot meet the grave without trying that one... the glimpses from XI Gai and NGBC Ryo aren't enough.

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Re: Commands/systems you dislike, and proposed alternatives
#26  April 09, 2010, 05:56:23 pm
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totally disliked the combos in the 3D MK Games ..but i like the commands for the special moves in MK games...in SF it was and still is nearly everything around quarter and half circles...the mk special movements are much more different
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Re: Commands/systems you dislike, and proposed alternatives
#27  April 11, 2010, 12:47:56 am
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Iced said, April 09, 2010, 03:17:24 pm
Evil zone.
Up up block for a neutral jump.

You somehow failed to mention that's a 1-on-1 fighting game that only uses only ONE attack button.

I'll have to look into this one to see how they pulled it off. Seems to pay homage to lots of anime genres and their flashiness, but still looks interesting enough to investigate.

swipergod

Re: Commands/systems you dislike, and proposed alternatives
#28  April 11, 2010, 06:15:37 pm
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My KOF game is sorta founded on some of these principles.  In my mission statement, I wrote that a game should be about how skillful you are at using moves and not how hard it is to pull off a move.  The commands have been simplified and old hold overs from FFS days (like the pretzel motion) have been removed.  SNK itself even somewhat agreed with your Deadly Rave point by making it auto chain in '98 UM.  Making moves more "reliable" adds a sense of excitement to the battle in my opinion, and opens the door for players to try new characters.  I have a friend who never touched throw characters until playing an SNK game because some special throws were simplified to half circles instead of 360s.

I don't agree with the Fei Long example though.  If you can pull off a clean qcf and the game your playing has good response to commands, doing 3 in a row shouldn't be much of an obstacle.  I also wouldn't really compare what works in 2D to what works in 3D since the concepts are somewhat different in execution.  Games like Tekken and Soul Cal try to be more realistic in their movesets and 8 way run creates various other command possibilities/obstacles.

I've found that some people just prefer complex motions, whether it be to balance out the cheapness of an executed move, or to add another notch on their skill belt.  Regardless, I find it really is personal preference in the end.
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Loona

Re: Commands/systems you dislike, and proposed alternatives
#29  April 11, 2010, 10:22:45 pm
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Before 98UM they'd also simplified it to something similar in the NGPC SVC, if for different reasons.

Real Bout 2 also took some steps against holdover from older games with Geese, namely turning the pretzel motion into a simpler HaohShoKoKen motion, and leaving the 360º command for the highest level of super (geese's Rashomon, maybe Yamazaki's P-Power too iirc) in the game instead of a character's bread-and-butter special grapple.

My issue with the Fei Long special is mostly related to the lack of alternatives other than stopping or continuing. When it can branch into more possibilities it makes a bit more sense to me.


I'm interested to see how your project tackles these kind of issues - I've finally started to read the WIP topic (so many pages), and I'm loving the discussions on the minute details there.

Average Mugen Guild Poster

Re: Commands/systems you dislike, and proposed alternatives
#30  April 24, 2010, 05:25:24 am
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Ugh, charge attacks. They are so tedious to use, having to walk backwards, AWAY from the opponent, just to get you timing off and have to do it again. Their killer on control pads, and Vega's entire moveset sucks shit for it. (US Vega)
How the fuck do you perform DB,DF,DB,UF anyway? I've never fucking done it. >:(

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The Simplistic Fubini

Re: Commands/systems you dislike, and proposed alternatives
#31  April 24, 2010, 05:29:13 am
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Pads suck.

TempesT

Re: Commands/systems you dislike, and proposed alternatives
#32  April 24, 2010, 07:30:57 am
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Charge characters usually "sit" on their charges (hold down+back) which counts as a down and a back charge. The motion you're having trouble with is easy too, just start the charge, then roll to DF, then back to DB and roll to UF quickly.

Pads are OK. But I couldn't play Marvel or King of Fighters on one.

Average Mugen Guild Poster

Re: Commands/systems you dislike, and proposed alternatives
#33  April 24, 2010, 08:42:50 am
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TempesT said, April 24, 2010, 07:30:57 am
Charge characters usually "sit" on their charges (hold down+back) which counts as a down and a back charge. The motion you're having trouble with is easy too, just start the charge, then roll to DF, then back to DB and roll to UF quickly.

Pads are OK. But I couldn't play Marvel or King of Fighters on one.
I will never believe that in my life, that command is about as easy as trying to suck my own... well you get the gist.
Especially with a pad, I was just playing SF4 and I couldn't perform half of Vega's moves with the goddamn PS3 controller. :S

fucking bad poster asshole that home32 bitch

S.D.

My reaction time is faster on a pad due obvious reasons.
#34  April 24, 2010, 08:47:46 am
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Chances are that you're new to fighting games.

Pads are nice, unless you're playing with an Xbox, Gamecube or PSP pad.

Epic Winnery

Re: Commands/systems you dislike, and proposed alternatives
#35  April 24, 2010, 08:58:29 am
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Pads for the 360 is HORRIBLE.

For the commands system, I just hate Tekken's. I love the game don't get me wrong but how their commands and the god damn juggle system is set up just irritates me to no end. There would be times where I would practice doing the 10 combo with Larz and it only came out 50% of the time.

Each of the time where it didn't come out I wonder why, cause I input all the correct inputs and even try to time it right (or at least I thought) even look through how the CPU inputs them. There have been hours wasted.

Not only that but I just hate the rotations... With the keyboard im fine but with sticks  >:(

But I just may have a controller issue rather than a command issue. But Tekken gets my vote of command dislike.

Average Mugen Guild Poster

Re: My reaction time is faster on a pad due obvious reasons.
#36  April 24, 2010, 09:40:41 am
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Black Jack said, April 24, 2010, 08:47:46 am
Chances are that you're new to fighting games.

Pads are nice, unless you're playing with an Xbox, Gamecube or PSP pad.
Haha... your kidding right? I can do every single command with my eyes blindfolded except for that one command, it's f-ing hell. (And I've been playing fighting games since I was five, thank you very much. >:()
Orochi Paladin said, April 24, 2010, 08:58:29 am
Pads for the 360 is HORRIBLE.

For the commands system, I just hate Tekken's. I love the game don't get me wrong but how their commands and the god damn juggle system is set up just irritates me to no end. There would be times where I would practice doing the 10 combo with Larz and it only came out 50% of the time.

Each of the time where it didn't come out I wonder why, cause I input all the correct inputs and even try to time it right (or at least I thought) even look through how the CPU inputs them. There have been hours wasted.

Not only that but I just hate the rotations... With the keyboard im fine but with sticks  >:(

But I just may have a controller issue rather than a command issue. But Tekken gets my vote of command dislike.
360 and 720 rotations are easier on stick... I mean, it goes in a circle motion. :S

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TempesT

Re: Commands/systems you dislike, and proposed alternatives
#37  April 24, 2010, 09:44:55 am
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A stick and a pad use the same type of moving mechanism. I would understand if you were comparing it to a D-PAD, but comparing an analog stick to an arcade(type) stick is fairly similar, imo.

As far as the motion goes, you really do just need some practice with it. There are tons of threads everywhere, I would bet, that cover it and tricks on how to do it easier. (charge DB, HCB x 2, UF might seem easier in this case)

Also buffering the motion might help you get a better understanding on how it works. The command system in SF4 and the upcoming SSF4 are incredibly lenient and everything is easy to do.

edit- plus I think the last input in that Ultra command can be modified to either UF or UB.
Last Edit: April 24, 2010, 09:48:34 am by TempesT

Average Mugen Guild Poster

Re: Commands/systems you dislike, and proposed alternatives
#38  April 24, 2010, 10:07:31 am
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TempesT said, April 24, 2010, 09:44:55 am
A stick and a pad use the same type of moving mechanism. I would understand if you were comparing it to a D-PAD, but comparing an analog stick to an arcade(type) stick is fairly similar, imo.

As far as the motion goes, you really do just need some practice with it. There are tons of threads everywhere, I would bet, that cover it and tricks on how to do it easier. (charge DB, HCB x 2, UF might seem easier in this case)

Also buffering the motion might help you get a better understanding on how it works. The command system in SF4 and the upcoming SSF4 are incredibly lenient and everything is easy to do.

edit- plus I think the last input in that Ultra command can be modified to either UF or UB.
Interesting, I might have to try that command myself sometime.
And I was saying that an analog stick and an arcade stick can do 360's easily, but D-pads cannot, key board isn't that bad for me really. ::)

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S.D.

Re: Commands/systems you dislike, and proposed alternatives
#39  April 24, 2010, 10:14:52 am
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Protip: 360°'s are easy on a pad AND they aren't real 360°'s.

TempesT

Re: Commands/systems you dislike, and proposed alternatives
#40  April 24, 2010, 10:18:58 am
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Tell me about it. Trying to dash sonic boom after a teleport? HOW ABOUT A WHIFFED SPD INSTEAD MOTHERFUCKER.

Loona

Re: Commands/systems you dislike, and proposed alternatives
#41  April 26, 2010, 02:41:20 pm
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home32 said, April 24, 2010, 05:25:24 am
Ugh, charge attacks. They are so tedious to use, having to walk backwards, AWAY from the opponent, just to get you timing off and have to do it again.

While charging while crouching is a classic option, you can usually prepare your charge during a jump as well, for example, (hold back or down immediately after using UF to jump), letting you be a bit more aggressive with that kind of move, especially if you can get it to combo off something.

I think I also recall reading about using charge motions during rolls in CVS, since in those games rolls would only go forward, so you didn't need to hold forward (just the regular double attack button activation.

That method is more understandable in a Capcom game since they use 6 buttons for attack and would be awkward to add even more, but I personally like the idea of keeping a button aside for active defense movements - for example, the RB games used 3 of 4 buttons to attack, with the 4th used for the game's place shift. I still find it odd that when KoF XI got to use a 5th button they used it for the traditional C+D attack, while keeping it for rolls would prevent a mistimed press from turning a defenseive roll into an attack that might leave you wide open to something like a projectile or a move that could hit you out of a jab or weak kick.

Cashman

Re: Commands/systems you dislike, and proposed alternatives
#42  April 26, 2010, 02:57:09 pm
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KOF 2003 Yamazaki's Leader attack. Why?
Because...


Low punch, Low punch, Foward, Low Kick, High Punch


...

Does it sound like something we All know?

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K.O.D

Re: Commands/systems you dislike, and proposed alternatives
#43  April 26, 2010, 02:59:04 pm
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LP = Light punch, HP = Hard punch, LK = Light kick, HK = Hard kick.

S.D.

And Loona keeps stating the obvious.
#44  April 26, 2010, 08:53:14 pm
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Nero D.

Re: Commands/systems you dislike, and proposed alternatives
#45  April 26, 2010, 09:03:48 pm
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  • Fuck You.
lol Yuri was planned with a whole fucking alternate mode ripping off Evil Ryu in 2001. YMMV on how that woulda turned out though.
i cant count the reasons i should stay

one by one they all just fade away...


http://nero-blanco.deviantart.com/

K.O.D

Re: Commands/systems you dislike, and proposed alternatives
#46  April 26, 2010, 09:07:58 pm
  • ******
  • what a shame
    • Iran
Parody is the correct term, she's SNK Dan.

Cyanide

Re: Commands/systems you dislike, and proposed alternatives
#47  April 27, 2010, 04:20:41 am
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Except that she can actually fight.

I don't like any command where the final button press is more than 2 cos that's just awkward and pointless unless you have a macro for it.


In M.U.G.E.N there is no magic button

They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance.

S.D.

Re: Commands/systems you dislike, and proposed alternatives
#48  April 27, 2010, 10:19:40 am
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No, no.
You know what sucks?

Ryo's command for his SDM Ryuuko Ranbu in 02 (And the alternate command for his MAX2 in 02UM)

Bastard Mami

Re: Commands/systems you dislike, and proposed alternatives
#49  April 27, 2010, 08:38:25 pm
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  • [E]
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yes, that one sucks, it never comes out.

home32 said, April 24, 2010, 05:25:24 am
Ugh, charge attacks. They are so tedious to use, having to walk backwards, AWAY from the opponent, just to get you timing off and have to do it again. Their killer on control pads, and Vega's entire moveset sucks shit for it. (US Vega)
How the fuck do you perform DB,DF,DB,UF anyway? I've never fucking done it. >:(

I do : charge DB,qcfx2 endnig the last one in uf.

I lvoe garnet's hidden super art command, it is df, RDP,f,b,f +P

Voltron-o

Re: Commands/systems you dislike, and proposed alternatives
#50  May 14, 2010, 12:48:01 am
  • ***
  • MUGEN THe DReam COme TRue
Commands?? ill eternally hate 360 x 2 to make an hyper

S.D.

Re: Commands/systems you dislike, and proposed alternatives
#51  May 14, 2010, 01:13:12 am
  • ******
  • ゴゴゴゴゴ
You mean 225°/270°x2.

Orochi Gill

Re: Commands/systems you dislike, and proposed alternatives
#52  May 14, 2010, 01:16:48 am
  • ******
  • Si monumentum requires, circumspice
    • USA
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  • Online
I thought it was 720.

Nero D.

Re: Commands/systems you dislike, and proposed alternatives
#53  May 14, 2010, 01:21:23 am
  • ******
  • Fuck You.
DIO's saying that the motion is not a full 360 cause you're not going around the controller twice.

To be specific, a 720 would really a 630 cause you're going around a full 360 one time then a 270 the second.
i cant count the reasons i should stay

one by one they all just fade away...


http://nero-blanco.deviantart.com/

Voltron-o

Re: Commands/systems you dislike, and proposed alternatives
#54  May 14, 2010, 01:52:32 am
  • ***
  • MUGEN THe DReam COme TRue

S.D.

Re: Commands/systems you dislike, and proposed alternatives
#55  May 14, 2010, 02:08:56 am
  • ******
  • ゴゴゴゴゴ
What Nero said. Except you don't have to pull a full 360°, not even once.

The command would be: HCF,UF,HCF,UF/HCB,UB,HCB,UB+whatever button. Try it. It works on pretty much every game.

Average Mugen Guild Poster

Re: Commands/systems you dislike, and proposed alternatives
#56  May 14, 2010, 04:43:15 am
  • ****
  • im finally just like everyone else
    • sites.google.com/site/thespritehaven/
720 motion is easy pickin's in the air. ::)

fucking bad poster asshole that home32 bitch

TempesT

Re: Commands/systems you dislike, and proposed alternatives
#57  May 14, 2010, 07:39:27 am
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That goes without saying, but DIO's method allows for standing 720s.

Average Mugen Guild Poster

Re: Commands/systems you dislike, and proposed alternatives
#58  May 14, 2010, 07:54:11 am
  • ****
  • im finally just like everyone else
    • sites.google.com/site/thespritehaven/

fucking bad poster asshole that home32 bitch

TempesT

Re: Commands/systems you dislike, and proposed alternatives
#59  May 14, 2010, 08:05:01 am
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Looks like you got some research to do then, because Vega and Guile's super (and ultra in SF4) have an upforward motion as well.

Average Mugen Guild Poster

Re: Commands/systems you dislike, and proposed alternatives
#60  May 14, 2010, 08:07:21 am
  • ****
  • im finally just like everyone else
    • sites.google.com/site/thespritehaven/
But it cancels out when you press the button and that at the same time as I recall. So if you press UF twice, wouldn't the first one jump? (Goes to test theory...)
Street Fighter EX2 plus confirms my theory. :P

fucking bad poster asshole that home32 bitch

Nero D.

Re: Commands/systems you dislike, and proposed alternatives
#61  May 14, 2010, 08:11:03 am
  • ******
  • Fuck You.
i cant count the reasons i should stay

one by one they all just fade away...


http://nero-blanco.deviantart.com/

TempesT

Re: Commands/systems you dislike, and proposed alternatives
#62  May 14, 2010, 08:11:36 am
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Home32 said, May 14, 2010, 08:07:21 am
But it cancels out when you press the button and that at the same time as I recall. So if you press UF twice, wouldn't the first one jump? (Goes to test theory...)
Street Fighter EX2 plus confirms my theory. :P
I disagree

Buffering is kind of incorrect as well, since a straight up standing 720 has nothing in between to actually buffer, some standing 720s use walking to "buffer" but that's a stretch.

Average Mugen Guild Poster

Re: Commands/systems you dislike, and proposed alternatives
#63  May 14, 2010, 08:15:20 am
  • ****
  • im finally just like everyone else
    • sites.google.com/site/thespritehaven/
According to some of the comments I read on some of those videos, doing a standing 720 on a keyboard is impossible. Looks like I'm only half-right here. :P

fucking bad poster asshole that home32 bitch

TempesT

Re: Commands/systems you dislike, and proposed alternatives
#64  May 14, 2010, 08:17:52 am
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Err, but all you said that it makes you jump, you didn't say anything about keyboards or input devices until just now lol..

Average Mugen Guild Poster

Re: Commands/systems you dislike, and proposed alternatives
#65  May 14, 2010, 08:31:34 am
  • ****
  • im finally just like everyone else
    • sites.google.com/site/thespritehaven/
TempesT said, May 14, 2010, 08:17:52 am
Err, but all you said that it makes you jump, you didn't say anything about keyboards or input devices until just now lol..
Like I said, only half. I can't seem to reproduce it on my computer controller ether, even with a macro doing the exact combo. (For testing of course.)

fucking bad poster asshole that home32 bitch

Cyanide

Re: Commands/systems you dislike, and proposed alternatives
#66  May 14, 2010, 01:15:30 pm
  • ******
  • Legendary XIII
  • I am the eye of the storm to come!
    • New Zealand
    • network.mugenguild.com/cyanide/
i would have thought you'd get an up even on a stick unless you did it during another move.

I can manage a 720, but it's hellishly unreliable and generally requires mad jumping.


In M.U.G.E.N there is no magic button

They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance.

kakkoii superhero

Re: Commands/systems you dislike, and proposed alternatives
#67  May 14, 2010, 04:00:44 pm
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  • all is love in fair and war
Home32 said, April 24, 2010, 05:25:24 am
Ugh, charge attacks. They are so tedious to use, having to walk backwards, AWAY from the opponent, just to get you timing off and have to do it again. Their killer on control pads, and Vega's entire moveset sucks shit for it. (US Vega)
How the fuck do you perform DB,DF,DB,UF anyway? I've never fucking done it. >:(

what's the problem there with sommersault justice? that is easy with pad, or stick, would be hard on keyboard though.

K.O.D

Re: Commands/systems you dislike, and proposed alternatives
#68  May 14, 2010, 04:01:22 pm
  • ******
  • what a shame
    • Iran
easy on a keyboard.

kakkoii superhero

Re: Commands/systems you dislike, and proposed alternatives
#69  May 14, 2010, 04:10:57 pm
  • ******
  • all is love in fair and war
but requires more effort, since the ring finger have to be lifted and middle finger shifted from D to U and index to F for the last input while the starter is easy enough.

Mr.L (Back and better than ever)

Re: Commands/systems you dislike, and proposed alternatives
#70  May 14, 2010, 05:19:05 pm
  • **
  • "Feelin' random"
I never liked the Melty Blood fighting system, feels like there is little to no cool down sometimes, but that is just me.

Cashman

Re: Commands/systems you dislike, and proposed alternatives
#71  May 14, 2010, 06:27:00 pm
  • ***
  • I'm Happy
Mature's HSDM in King Of Fighters 2002

May I say Bootlegged Shun Goku Satsu?

PSN: Cashman1242
Gamertag: Cashman124

TempesT

Re: Commands/systems you dislike, and proposed alternatives
#72  May 14, 2010, 09:55:55 pm
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2002 Vice's HSDM was worse.

Average Mugen Guild Poster

Re: Commands/systems you dislike, and proposed alternatives
#73  May 15, 2010, 02:33:29 am
  • ****
  • im finally just like everyone else
    • sites.google.com/site/thespritehaven/
Cyanide said, May 14, 2010, 01:15:30 pm
i would have thought you'd get an up even on a stick unless you did it during another move.

I can manage a 720, but it's hellishly unreliable and generally requires mad jumping.
Exactly.

fucking bad poster asshole that home32 bitch

TempesT

Re: Commands/systems you dislike, and proposed alternatives
#74  May 15, 2010, 02:36:58 am
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    • Canada
    • Skype - templovesu
Like I said, research :P

Cyanide said, May 14, 2010, 01:15:30 pm
i would have thought you'd get an up even on a stick unless you did it during another move.

I can manage a 720, but it's hellishly unreliable and generally requires mad jumping.
Input device doesn't matter.

S.D.

Re: Commands/systems you dislike, and proposed alternatives
#75  May 15, 2010, 02:40:11 am
  • ******
  • ゴゴゴゴゴ
Home32 said, May 14, 2010, 08:07:21 am
So if you press UF twice, wouldn't the first one jump? (Goes to test theory...)
For your information, there's a certain amount of recovery ticks between a walking/crouching state and a jump state.

TempesT

Re: Commands/systems you dislike, and proposed alternatives
#76  May 15, 2010, 02:42:16 am
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    • Canada
    • Skype - templovesu
Ahhhhh, spoon fed :(

Average Mugen Guild Poster

Re: Commands/systems you dislike, and proposed alternatives
#77  May 15, 2010, 02:52:02 am
  • ****
  • im finally just like everyone else
    • sites.google.com/site/thespritehaven/
Hardly, I'm still curious as to how you have enough time to walk without canceling the command. :-\

fucking bad poster asshole that home32 bitch

TempesT

Re: Commands/systems you dislike, and proposed alternatives
#78  May 15, 2010, 02:53:11 am
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    • Canada
    • Skype - templovesu
Practice

Cyanide

Re: Commands/systems you dislike, and proposed alternatives
#79  May 15, 2010, 04:46:54 am
  • ******
  • Legendary XIII
  • I am the eye of the storm to come!
    • New Zealand
    • network.mugenguild.com/cyanide/
Overkill in 2k2 is actually really easy because the input time is hellishly long.

You go HCF U, then at the peak of the jump you can press D+AC and you'll get the HSDM. It's not worth doing in the air cos it's actually harder, but doing it from the ground and factoring the jump in basically turns it into HCF, jump, down double button.


In M.U.G.E.N there is no magic button

They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance.

Bastard Mami

Re: Commands/systems you dislike, and proposed alternatives
#80  May 20, 2010, 09:45:50 am
  • ******
  • [E]
    • Mexico
ina  few fighting games (don't worry, that covers the good ones), ground special attacks can be performed while you are in the jump start animation.
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