Well Alex that was funny you think ?
Is that your best??

but i can't add gouken to tsmugen  (lifebar not show)
alexlexus fix it please!
but i like Ai of gouken
i see some bug about sprite of gouken

Quote

regular strictly standard "non cheap, non broken, all that

Oh, you mean GOOD characters? Because when you say all these things, that's what I think of as a good character. It's called balance. Just because you CAN make unbalanced, overpowered, ridiculously cheap characters doesn't mean they are interesting or fun to play as, or against. There's a reason that character balance is a key issue in what makes a good fighting game, and there is also a reason why the term "SNK Boss Syndrome" is tossed around NEGATIVELY.

ShotokanEditor said, January 08, 2008, 12:59:01 pm

well thats was Gouken supposed to be:overpowered
Dont forget that he is a master to his arts

Yeah, and that's why if Gogeta Saiyajin 4 is in Mugen, it should be able to destroy your hard drive with one punch.

Is worthless to discuss here what is a good char and what is not because the simple concept of good and bad are different between ourselves, im not obsessed with balance. Mugen is a selvatic free world, that´s why i play it; when there is not balance between chars what remains is your personal skill and intelligence to beat those very hard to beat ones (obviously, without any extremely cheap one). Not any other reason hooked me to mugen, a simply game like this one for sdo long (1 year). What i share is my perspective of enjoyment that i use, not that any other have to use at all.

Seanaltly chars, for example, are very different ones compared with this Gouken. I tested some and they weren´t my style yet; maybe if they had a real though AI, they could be interesting to be have, so that´s my suggestion.

Shin Gouki simply has a good AI. If u can´t beat a char, don´t call it cheap, lol, all people do that.

People can´t ask for 5000 chars to be all balanced between each other´s.... Gouken is one style, more customizated, etc.

Is worthless to discuss here what is a good char and what is not because the simple concept of good and bad are different between ourselves, im not obsessed with balance. Mugen is a selvatic free world, that´s why i play it; when there is not balance between chars what remains is your personal skill and intelligence to beat those very hard to beat ones (obviously, without any extremely cheap one). Not any other reason hooked me to mugen, a simply game like this one for sdo long (1 year). What i share is my perspective of enjoyment that i use, not that any other have to use at all.

This Gouken is great, funny, etc. His damage should be toned down, i agree, but only with editing attack on the cns will that be fixed?.

This problem is strange to be seen menawhile in your earlier versions i always complained (orr gave feedback) that gouken dmg values in most of his attacks were too low, maybe because of the mkvssf style, or anything else i wasn´t aware of.

If you don´t want to understand at all my perspective, it´s up to you. I don´t care at all about yours although i have understand, read, and heard, perfectly what u have said. U simply have another form of enjoying mugen wich i DO NOT have.

The feedback i gave about some of your chars i think it was something like "good job, good originality, what an assload of work, etcetra". and nothing more i have to say about them. I thought it was an adecuate comparison rather than any of your paranoid ideas about me being retaliatory. Why?, sure u think your chars are perfectly non cheap, non unbalanced, and they fit perfectly your definition of a GOOD char, as u stated.

So then, no more to be said i think.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=IZKuqBChbsM

talk to me about balance after watching this. mainly seanaltly

Point of Seanalty was : Gouken should be balanced against other balanced characters, not overpowered cheap ones.

alk to me about balance after watching this. mainly seanaltly

Warbaster said, January 09, 2008, 02:21:29 pm

How about putting them in your test Mugen folder, chosing the one that best fits your needs, and THEN putting your favorite version in your roster, to avoid cluttering it with stuff you'll never use anyway.

u talking to me?

Ascended, or lvl 2 chars are just like chars from another different gamestyle. Why so much complaining. Personally I was stating only to low the dmg a BIT. a BIT. Well, at least the sinkuu hadouken that drains 1/2 of the bar of most chars with 1000 life, lol, and the ground dragon kick  that drains 3/4....750dmg or more. I thought that were bugs or something, making shun gouk satsu nearly useless as ir don´t drains that much with that little power. The ken lvl2 super did LESS damage than the special from ken lvl 2 implemented on gouken... that auto kicks combo, bugs maybe now corrected...

Ohsky said, January 10, 2008, 01:17:14 am

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No. Both characters in that video are unbalanced and overpowered. Simple as that. If he only seems balanced against other overpowered characters, than all you're really doing is proving my point.

for you are "that", for the standards of the ascended lvl2 project, they are BALANCED, and normal powered. Understand that if u really want. Ascended is another game, made using the mugen engine. In reality mugen is not a game in itself where all chars done with it must be compared each other by definition, or as a moral imperative, or by a religious code of "honesty" wich defines what is good and bad for your conveniences.... sure u all know that.

What people like me do is to mix all chars in a clear unbalanced conjunction, wich just that, makes mugen AWESOME, still challenging.

I have to admit, that i don´t know for how long it will.

Thats right and even if you can't beat the character you can just set his order to 0 in your .def file.

so you can see this is at the top of the list

Laxxe23 said, January 10, 2008, 02:20:46 pm

ohsky this was the worst feedback you could give
no offence but gouken is almost finished so please stop saying he is done and perfect, i know its what alex wants to hear but its not whats best right now when we are so close

  wtf I NEVER SAID what u are saying i said. Calm yourself man. I seen alex pissed on this thing so i suggested to go on without caring so much. U have no authority at all, nor anything related, to tell me to shut up about anything here.

Ninetailes said, January 10, 2008, 02:29:50 am

Ohsky said, January 10, 2008, 01:17:14 am

Quote

No. Both characters in that video are unbalanced and overpowered. Simple as that. If he only seems balanced against other overpowered characters, than all you're really doing is proving my point.

for you are "that", for the standards of the ascended lvl2 project, they are BALANCED, and normal powered. Understand that if u really want. Ascended is another game, made using the mugen engine. In reality mugen is not a game in itself where all chars done with it must be compared each other by definition, or as a moral imperative, or by a religious code of "honesty" wich defines what is good and bad for your conveniences.... sure u all know that.

What people like me do is to mix all chars in a clear unbalanced conjunction, wich just that, makes mugen AWESOME, still challenging.

I have to admit, that i don´t know for how long it will.

Thats right and even if you can't beat the character you can just set his order to 0 in your .def file.

if that wasn´t true we all would have had all the 5000+ mugen chars in our own mugen folders... jajaja, you can just delete the chars u dislike. Maybe, a 50gb+ folder

...never say gouken is cheap cause he isn,t. he can be beaten...

Okay, 5 minutes of test for 10 minutes of feedback :

Debug message + WTF are these CLSNs ?



Sprite still needs work + WTF are these CLSNs ?



WTF are these CLSNS ?


Gouken being untouchable during his supers ? That's what I call cheap !


Debug text (negative hitpriority) + Super background is still misaligned (look at the bottom of the screen) + CLSNs once again !


WTF are these CLSNs ?

Does anyone else find it amusing that Ohsky is criticizing someone else's coherence?

Also, one more thing, and this is a genuine question and feel free to correct me on this, but should Gouken have a Shungokusatsu? Wasn't he killed by Gouki because of his unwillingness to submit to the killing arts/Dark Hadou, whatever? I think it would be truer to his character if he didn't have one. Or am I getting him confused with Goutsetsu?

HE'S A MAD PARRYING BEAST!

seriously, he parried God Rugal's return to nothingness after being hit by it once >_O

cheap? yes. fun to fight against? no. fun to fight with? yes.

All other issues have been addressed in previous posts.

Shion said, January 11, 2008, 09:52:07 am

seanaltly said, January 11, 2008, 08:05:58 am

Also, one more thing, and this is a genuine question and feel free to correct me on this, but should Gouken have a Shungokusatsu? Wasn't he killed by Gouki because of his unwillingness to submit to the killing arts/Dark Hadou, whatever? I think it would be truer to his character if he didn't have one. Or am I getting him confused with Goutsetsu?

Your absolutely right, I was going to post about it early but decided it wasn't worth getting in the middle of this argument for.

Every Gouken to date has portrayed him as a super uber ansatsuken master, when in fact he hated the Satsui no Hadou, which was at the very center of the art.  He could and would never perform the Shun Goku Satsu because of that.  His goal was to change ansatsuken from a killing art into a non-lethal art, which is the version he taught to Ryu and Ken.  This is why he ultimately died at the hands of Gouki, who had really mastered Ansatsuken by totally embracing the Satsui no Hadou.  IMHO, Gouken should be based of defensive arts and submission moves instead of being a slightly different Shin Gouki. 

These posts are to me exactly what a good Gouken should be based on. Gouki should always be a much more aggressive and probably stronger attacking character where as Gouken should be a much more defensive character...kind of a yin and yang type of thing. Think Ryu and Ken, Ryu is the recluse focusing on the fireball and keeping away from his opponents (Gouken) Ken always focused on the Shoryuken and likes being in the heat of the battle (Gouki)

alexlexus said, February 13, 2008, 03:16:26 pm

What's up with that arm?

ingame it doesn't do that, cause it's looped with fighter factory.