Let's just do it. An idea section. A whole area where people can post their ideas. They can even request shit be made there. The best part, is none of us will ever have to look at anything in there.
DEvelopment discussion serves very welllas a borderline forum, but what has been happening in the projects forum requiers more drastic measures.
how many threads from the first three pages would be movedi mean i think this is a good idea but you guys are blowing it way out of proportion
shamrock said, May 24, 2009, 05:00:02 amThe best part, is none of us will ever have to look at anything in there.I like the sound of this.
shamrock said, May 25, 2009, 04:34:18 amNo we are not.http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=99209.0;topicseenis that it, one thread
Fine how is this?http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=98351.0http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=98097.0http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=96752.0http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=97553.0http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=95256.0http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=92729.0http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=98291.0http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=99006.0http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=85200.0http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=99013.0http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=98799.0http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=97429.0
http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=99233.0;topicseenAdd this to the list, or delete it, something.
at some point it will grow old on us with the loads of idea abuse and staff will decide to archive it or something but The Order of the Mindless Hope will emerge like the mk shit case, [insert hot gas consequence here]
I'd like that section to be made so I can know where to go to laugh at ppl like this guy.http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=99213.0Mean, yes. Good reason for doing it, no. Bust a gut laughing, garunteed
YEAH, WE LEECHERS IDEA ENGINEERS WON THE WAR AGAINST THE CREATORS !!! WE HAVE A SPACE JUST FOR US !!!
ArellonX said, May 26, 2009, 10:09:52 amOuch my egoOkay what is it gonna take, getting your avatar back?
The Mugen Discussion icon switches to the blank page icon of the Idea Engineer icon whenever there's a new post in the subforum, is that normal ? it doesn't do that on the other sections that have a subsection, does it ? o_u
it's supposed to switch to something between read and unread (like when there's a new post in projects) but that inbetween image isn't there right now and will be added later oops!!!
The "Idea Engineering" section needs a better name - using a forum in-joke to refer to it makes it useless to new users.Example:http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=101768.0Perhaps an alternate name could be "Brainstorming", "Character Concept Discussion" or something to that effect.You could still ignore it if you're so inclined, but it would redirect new users more efficiently instead of giving you the trouble of moving topics. And might shed some stigma from more veteran users to post there, should they feel any due to the current in-joke name.Edit: Apparently, the current name is also confusing enough that something that belong in Development Help or Development Discussion at worse is being posted there out of despair for lack of replies:http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=101712.0
Sub-text for sub-sections in the forum doesn't appear in the main page - the case I mentioned may have skipped going into the parent section to see the description, but then again, the section name isn't that eloquent, and sounds more technical than it should.
More technical? Really? I would think that would be the point, at least more than the other sections anyway.
Not really - that section is all about what characters should be able to do and why.A more technical section, like Development Help goes into the nitty-gritty of how you implement it, a related but quite separate matter.
What...?Machina is right. They can just read the sub-text. And to realize what Idea-Engineering means is not that hard.
Loona said, July 13, 2009, 09:58:12 pmSub-text for sub-sections in the forum doesn't appear in the main page.And for the unweary, the name may be unclear about the type of idea: ow to get feature so-and-so to work, or how to come up with a moveset and system that makes a character work in a 2D fighting game environment.
Quotehttp://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=66440.msg897359#msg897359BUT IT'S PART OF OUR CULTURE THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT
Nobody reads anything. There's often idea engineering threads, or requests for help making sprites etc etc in the Dev help section as well. Threads being in the wrong location comes with forums. As mods, we shift them. There is no need to become more specific or pedantic about how a forum is described or accessed as threads are going to be in the wrong place ANYWAY.Idea engineering is 90% a place to shove moronic WIP topics that will never see the light of day anyway.
Just make sure to leave the moved message for a few days, I was always against moved messages but in this case it helps.
Cyanide said, July 14, 2009, 04:23:25 amIdea engineering is 90% a place to shove moronic WIP topics that will never see the light of day anyway.That enforced stygma is what makes more serious threads that should belong there get posted elsewhere - example:http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=103398.0
c001357 said, August 13, 2009, 02:11:30 pmis there a significant difference between an idea engineer topic and this?The level of detail, and Tony's been around here for longer than most topic starters in Idea Engineering - otherwise, the premise is the same.
When a guy is a GMod and is well known, we know we can trust him when he writes a topic like that.Same goes for spriters such as Felo Lop, Dampir, Marancv or Li-Kun. When they make a sprite topic in the WIP section, nobody is asking them to move the topic to Graphic Arts, because we know they're doing the job, are serious about it, and they're doing it well.
Cybaster said, August 13, 2009, 03:07:18 pmWhen a guy is a GMod and is well known, we know we can trust him when he writes a topic like that.Same goes for spriters such as Felo Lop, Dampir, Marancv or Li-Kun. When they make a sprite topic in the WIP section, nobody is asking them to move the topic to Graphic Arts, because we know they're doing the job, are serious about it, and they're doing it well.Making the adequacy of a topc to a given forum section depend on reputation adquired through the years seems a bit unreasonable...At best, having such an example of a decently structured 1st post like that in a thread may help others consider thinking their ideas through before posting them in that section - and if they don't, the quicker they can sink anyway while ideas with more meat in them get some actual discussion.If these things are actually discussed some projects may actually avoid some problem before they actually begin if they actually start getting worked on.Assigning new posters to what has practically become an "ignore bin" will not help anyone in the long run if veterans can get away with posting the same type of thing in an area with more exposure in a way that new users can't get away with.If a distinction by experience/reputation is to be made, that's what Stickies are for, like the one accepting artwork submissions for Borghi's game in the Graphics section.
Loona said, August 13, 2009, 03:40:53 pmAssigning new posters to what has practically become an "ignore bin" will not help anyone in the long run if veterans can get away with posting the same type of thing in an area with more exposure in a way that new users can't get away with.But they don't
And not ALL veterans can get away with it. Only those that have proven they can do pretty much what they set out to do.If I started my DSvsSF project for the umpteenth time it would need to be in the Idea Engineer's board. Because, aside from sprites, I haven't done crap in all my years here =p
Still, why is it a sub-section of Mugen Discussion instead of a sub-section of Projects?Sure, Projects has full-game sub-sections that have a bi more development in them, but it's odd lookin through the main page of the forum, looking at the latest active topic, and frequently seeing that for Mugen Discussion it's usually something from Idea Engineering, since it's more often that not about some hypothetical game project.At least under the Projects section it'd make more sense to find something like that...
But idea Engineering topics are not topics about "Chars which will be made in less than 10 years, hence they're future projects". They are topics about "let's discuss my dream character which I'll never make because I'm waiting for people to do it for me".See, these topics are more random discussions than projects wannabes.
Still, how has that more to do with Mugen Discussion than with Projects?Think of it like this:- only ideas, little-to-nothing done -> not quite fit for the main Projects section, so gets send to a sub-section of Projects where all such topics go (I still think something like Brainstorming would be a better name than Idea Engineering...)- enough ideas and effort to acually have something that might get finished, maybe even already reached a point where it can be run in Mugen to be tested, but not complete -> goes to the Projects section proper- some things already completed and some still in the works and/or planned, possibly with a few people helping out and coordinating efforts -> gets a sub-section of its own just for that project, as has happened with a few game projects in the forum already.Seems like a decent progress scale, which only really seems to fit Projects. Mugen Discussion seems for fit to discuss thngs that have already been done and occasionally community dynamics, not wishlists...
Cybaster said, August 14, 2009, 06:19:48 pmBut idea Engineering topics are not topics about "Chars which will be made in less than 10 years, hence they're future projects". They are topics about "let's discuss my dream character which I'll never make because I'm waiting for people to do it for me".See, these topics are more random discussions than projects wannabes. which is why I didn't add the GL gameplay thread there. that is more "technical stuff i'd like to discuss" than actually a dream project.even tough, I agree that the name "Idea Engineering" is misleading for those who don't know the story behind it.
The fact that you're botherin to think things through is a credit to the how seriously you're considering your project, but it'd still fit there.The issue isn't you being too technical, it's most Idea Engineering topics not being technical enough - most provide only a character/project name, and don't seem to even bother to think about how many buttons the character will use to attack or additional actions (figuring that out might already help estimate the kind of work involved...).
You have a point, but it will be dismissed on the grounds of "We already have enough WORTHWHILE subsections in project", TYVM.
Those sections get to have several topics dedicated to a single project - having one for everything else wouldn't be that big a leap, and would be less odd than having a whole off-topic section, as it is now...How many projects that got their own sections actually ever reached a reasonable state of completion to this day?...
Loona said, August 14, 2009, 06:32:15 pmStill, how has that more to do with Mugen Discussion than with Projects?Because it's more people talking about whatever they want than actually making any plan that has anything to do with Mugen creation.I mean, look at that CvS Evil Ryo. OMG I made a color swap and a new stance. Without having the slightest shadow of an idea about everything that goes around that.Like Cybaster said, the point of that section is specifically to NOT put those things in the Projects section.QuoteThe issue isn't you being too technical, it's most Idea Engineering topics not being technical enough - most provide only a character/project name, and don't seem to even bother to think about how many buttons the character will use to attack or additional actions (figuring that out might already help estimate the kind of work involved...).No, the issue is not that most topics in IdEng aren't technical enough. Because that's exactly what the section was made for. It wasn't made for serious discussions, it was made for these exact topics that aren't technical enough. If you have anything more than that, then no, you're NOT creating a new section just for them, it goes in the existing ones - discussions (if you're only discussing a system, like Tony, because that's what the Mugen/Developpement Discussion section was supposed to be for) or project (if you have an actual work in progress)The thing is, you say "this should be Brainstorming" but no, what would fit in this brainstorming (Tony's topic) is already supposed to go to Dev Disc / Mugen Disc, not to a new section. Don't make a mess with creating tons of new sections, the ones that already exist are enough. We don't need one new section called Brainstorming for topics that already fit in the existing sections.
I'm not talking about creating a new section, the idea is to move it under Projects - because in most cases the topic starters have no idea of what's involved, those are pretty much "sub-projects".
There's no reason to put it as a project subsection because they aren't actually projects. They are a discussion. It's one guy talking about something he thought of, without putting any work behind it or even much thoughts more than one image.
I agree that it should go under projects. I say that, so that people who were going to put shit in projects, could see that area and post there instead.
But those who post things that end up in IdEng are those who actually think their one sprite is worth calling a work in progress. No matter what, it's not, and no matter what, there isn't a lot of those who make those topics that will think "oh, it should go there, not in work in progress" even if they see it. The section was already supposed to be an alternate dump for those topics, so yeah, of course it's going to be the staff moving the topics there.Again, if it's an actual serious discussion, then it's for the Dev Discussion.
If they think at that point their topic is Projects-worthy, they'll likely post in Projects.So if their topic has to be moved, wouldn't it make more sense to move it to that vicinity, instead o all the way to a sub-section in Mugen Discussion?Besides, if they're interested in visibility, a Sticky could be added to IdEng on tips to getting their project/idea to qualify for an "upgrade" to the Projects section proper.
Loona said, August 14, 2009, 07:44:10 pmSo if their topic has to be moved, wouldn't it make more sense to move it to that vicinity, instead o all the way to a sub-section in Mugen Discussion?Why ? If it's moved there, it's because it's more the guy rambling in his topic and not actually doing much. Thus, discussion. If there's some work put into it, then it stays in the work in progress / project section. If it's moved to IdEng, it's precisely because there isn't any work done to begin with, it's just talk. Just because people think one sprite is a WIP, doesn't mean it is. If it's just talk, then it's for the discussion sections.What I'd like to get at, mostly, is...I don't really care if it's in one or the other. Right now, it's a subsection of discussion ; I say it's fine there. If it had been put as a subsection of project when it was created, I'd probably have not cared much more. But it's not. And I see no reason to change it now that it's done. It's a useless and really unproductive discussion. It's just rambling. This is just shilly-shally and frankly i think it's a waste of time to try and change it now that it's done. It's not better here than there. It's where it is, just leave it there.
And just as IdEng isn't Mugen Discussion, IdEng isn't Projects.But since the intent of the topic types is closer between IdEng and Projects, if IdEng is to be a sub-section of anything, Projects just seems more adequate.
I put it in Mugen Discussion because it felt unnecessary that "OMG I have an idea" would compete in the same space as the legit full game projects. Alongside full games, you'd never get a noob to think that's where he should post his half baked idea either. It didn't deserve to be on its own, so Mugen Discussion was the only place it should have gone.In the past, I have put ideas that I was thinking of in Mugen Discussion that would today be moved from WIPs to IDE..
