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King 98 UM Updated 10/01/2009 *Final* (Read 4593 times)

Started by Dr. H, January 07, 2009, 08:39:47 am
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Dr. H

King 98 UM Updated 10/01/2009 *Final*
#1  January 07, 2009, 08:39:47 am
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Last Edit: January 10, 2009, 05:07:10 am by Dr. H

NiO KuSaNaGi

Re: King 98 UM
#2  January 07, 2009, 10:18:55 am
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it's late here, If I can, I will give you feedback tomorrow, here or with thedge!

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Dr. H

King 98 UM Updated
#3  January 07, 2009, 07:06:36 pm
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Character updated. Projectiles couldn't be comboed, hope it's solved. Thanks to Thedge for let me know.

RunningWild

Re: King 98 UM Updated
#4  January 07, 2009, 09:06:48 pm
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Wow, just what I always wanted, a 98UM-style EX King. Let's see how she fares...

- Can't perform a long jump while running, she just does a normal jump.
- Far HK and Jump LK hit boxes could need some tweaking, doesn't really look right to me.
- Knock Down Attack (HP+HK) has the ugly old 2k2 hit sparks and not the newer XI hit sparks.
- I really think she should have a DM and SDM versions of Double Strike and Surprise Rose, but thats just me.
- I think she could use a better small portrait. :P

Overall, she's pretty decent I think, pretty good combo ability on her, I had no trouble comboing into Double Strike or Surprise Rose, and her damage output is actually pretty good. Just fix the things I listed above and she'll be fine. I think I may just replace MMR's King with this one.

Dr. H

Re: King 98 UM Updated
#5  January 07, 2009, 09:19:30 pm
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Quote
- Can't perform a long jump while running, she just does a normal jump.
Fixed, silly typo mistake. :P
Quote
- Far HK and Jump LK hit boxes could need some tweaking, doesn't really look right to me.
They're right, at least they're good enough, you can check 98 data.
Quote
- Knock Down Attack (HP+HK) has the ugly old 2k2 hit sparks and not the newer XI hit sparks.
Oh, so that's the wrong hitspark I have been told... will fix that.
Quote
- I really think she should have a DM and SDM versions of Double Strike and Surprise Rose, but thats just me.
Would have been an overkill, as she already has Ex moves pumping up her arsenal. Feels very balanced that way.
Quote
- I think she could use a better small portrait.
Will only exchange that for her 98 Um Ex portrait.

Thanks, will upload the fixes soon.

Ashram McDuck

Re: King 98 UM Updated
#6  January 07, 2009, 09:29:06 pm
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Only thing I noticed was that her throwing capability isn't consistent. (ie. she's able to perform her throws against some characters with no trouble, and she is not able to perform her throws against other characters without trouble) A few examples:

PotS Ryu - Can be right next to him, try to throw, get a close HK/HP instead
PotS Lei-Lei - Same thing
KOD's Joe - Same thing
KOD's K' - Works fine
abuhachi's Krauser - Same as PotS characters

Really weird.

Other than that ... yeah, she plays real nice. Everything flows well, the EX system is an interesting touch ... but I just think her Super attacks are boring. (seeing as their just regular special attacks in her various other incarnations) I haven't played KoF '98, so if that's the way she is in that version, I've more reason to be disappointed with SNK than anyone else.

RunningWild

Re: King 98 UM Updated
#7  January 07, 2009, 09:36:26 pm
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Dr. H said, January 07, 2009, 09:19:30 pm
They're right, at least they're good enough, you can check 98 data.

Are they really that big/shaped like that? I also noticed her Venom Striker hit box looks kinda funky, its just so huge, covers way more than the actual projectile itself.

NiO KuSaNaGi

Re: King 98 UM Updated
#8  January 07, 2009, 10:02:35 pm
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I download her yesterday (when it was announced)...she is updated now?

 o_O

need to now to download again
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Bastard Thedge

Re: King 98 UM Updated
#9  January 07, 2009, 10:23:59 pm
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Dr. H

Re: King 98 UM Updated
#10  January 07, 2009, 11:09:31 pm
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Running Wild said, January 07, 2009, 09:36:26 pm
Are they really that big/shaped like that? I also noticed her Venom Striker hit box looks kinda funky, its just so huge, covers way more than the actual projectile itself.

Yes, they're not pixel accurated, but that's how they are. Talk about overpriorized pokes.

Bastard Mami

Re: King 98 UM Updated
#11  January 08, 2009, 06:54:48 pm
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I liked her, she is like a simplified, stronger version of king.her sdm(dokomademo) is VERY easy to combo in, so it's good that it is a SDM and not just a dm, I did not find any particular bugs, so what follows is mostly comments.

her dokomademo can easily hit after a trip (not important as it is better to do a full combo).
She can't cancel her crouching weak kick to weak punch, which serves to balance her because she would be able to combo her doko.
A version of the weak punch can be cancelled to crouching weak kick, that's one thing to fix.
Her dokomademo is easy to combo after a succesful grab you might want to make it so king takes longer to recover after the grab sop that does not happen.
for some reason if you hit p2 with a basic after the launcher it will not fall to its feet.
Her launcher is not very aesthetically pleasing, like doing a close stand D to the launcher means watching the close stand D thrice, so I suggest to recycle the animation form kof instead.
for some reason her doko can't juggle after a CD.

Dr. H

Re: King 98 UM Updated
#12  January 08, 2009, 07:10:11 pm
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Quote
or some reason her doko can't juggle after a CD.
Quote
her dokomademo can easily hit after a trip (not important as it is better to do a full combo).
That's how Xi's anywhere juggle works, unless you're saying that you can't juggle over a counter CD?

Quote
She can't cancel her crouching weak kick to weak punch, which serves to balance her because she would be able to combo her doko.
She has CrouchB->CrouchA chain, I just gave her the 98 timing so it won't be too abusable.

Quote
A version of the weak punch can be cancelled to crouching weak kick, that's one thing to fix.
Weak Punch being cancellable with weak kick, you're saying? I agree that it's weird, but she can actually do that in 98.

Quote
for some reason if you hit p2 with a basic after the launcher it will not fall to its feet
Yeah, will give it an extra effort.

Quote
Her launcher is not very aesthetically pleasing, like doing a close stand D to the launcher means watching the close stand D thrice, so I suggest to recycle the animation form kof instead.

Agreed, but there's not so much to do, I even gave her Mirage Kick anim for the Ex version as it's looks alright, but it's kinda odd giving that anim to normal version too.
Currently thinking about giving her CVS near D anim.

Thanks.





 

Omegalord99

Re: King 98 UM Updated
#13  January 08, 2009, 07:32:18 pm
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Meh going into my roster but i would prefer the other 2 supers that were in the cmd that you coulda made.

Bastard Mami

Re: King 98 UM Updated
#14  January 08, 2009, 07:43:46 pm
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yeah, the trip thign was just a general commentary.

about her launcher, you could use her hcf+punch anim from kof99>. might as well change the command to that as well.

Dr. H

Re: King 98 UM Updated
#15  January 08, 2009, 07:54:08 pm
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The 99 anim was my first attempt, ended up looking weird to me. But since it can be done so fast, will give both and let the player choose it via config.cns.

Quote
Meh going into my roster but i would prefer the other 2 supers that were in the cmd that you coulda made.

Ex trap shot pretty much overrides any usefulness Silent Flash could bring. And Illusion Dance would feel off in her current gameplay, would feel like a KOFMI2 character. :(

GalFord

Re: King 98 UM Updated
#16  January 08, 2009, 08:22:13 pm
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Dr. H said, January 08, 2009, 07:54:08 pm
The 99 anim was my first attempt, ended up looking weird to me. But since it can be done so fast, will give both and let the player choose it via config.cns.

Quote
Meh going into my roster but i would prefer the other 2 supers that were in the cmd that you coulda made.

Ex trap shot pretty much overrides any usefulness Silent Flash could bring. And Illusion Dance would feel off in her current gameplay, would feel like a KOFMI2 character. :(

But.. but... Illusion Dance IS King.  I think I finally figured out why I couldn't get on with the 'Master King' incarnation... she just doesn't have Illusion Dance.

Dr. H

Re: King 98 UM Updated 09/01/2009
#17  January 09, 2009, 06:31:35 pm
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Updated 09/01/2009:

-Can now perform Super Jump during Run.
-Jump sounds are corrected.
-More juggle fixes, can't land Surprise Rose after Throw or non-counter CD.
-New custom anim for Moushuu Kyaku using 99 sprites, check Config CNS. Looks nice, so be sure to give it a try.
-Enemy will now fall to its feet if juggled by a Normal Move.
-Sliding Kick has air.fall now.
-CD has XI's sparks.
-Fixed throw range bug.
Quote
But.. but... Illusion Dance IS King.  I think I finally figured out why I couldn't get on with the 'Master King' incarnation... she just doesn't have Illusion Dance.
The thing I'm proposing is a 98UM Ex form, and that's what kept me motivated. Actjapan and M.M.R. already covered here normal self, so why bother.



Edit: Google site error, wait a bit.
Last Edit: January 09, 2009, 06:45:13 pm by Dr. H

Dr. H

Re: King 98 UM Updated 09/01/2009
#18  January 09, 2009, 09:37:55 pm
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Site is ok now, you're good to go.

NiO KuSaNaGi

Re: King 98 UM Updated 09/01/2009
#19  January 09, 2009, 11:45:53 pm
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downloaded (again)

:P

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RunningWild

Re: King 98 UM Updated 09/01/2009
#20  January 09, 2009, 11:47:35 pm
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She's alot better now. I replaced MMR's King with her. I may just start using her in vids.

Cybaster

Re: King 98 UM Updated 09/01/2009
#21  January 09, 2009, 11:58:09 pm
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Quote
-Enemy will now fall to its feet if juggled by a Normal Move.
Opponent automatically recovers from crouching HK even if it's not a juggle. :S

- The readme says that it's hcb+K for Tornado kick, while it's qcb+K.
- During an AI fight between King and KOD's Kyo, Kyo performed Kototsuki You while King performed Tornado Kick. Neither hit the the other. Then Kyo got stuck into performing Kototsuki You over and over again (looking towards the left), while King was just standing behind him, doing nothing (I don't think it's a King bug though, but she's the first one against whom this arrives with Kyo).


Finally, the big portrait you're using is really ugly, with many Jpeg artifacts. Here are two portraits I made from 2 packs of portraits :
 

It looks much better with it (new on right, obviously) :
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty
Last Edit: January 10, 2009, 12:28:49 am by God's Anger

Dr. H

Re: King 98 UM Updated 09/01/2009
#22  January 10, 2009, 12:24:25 am
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Fixed, character updated and uploaded yet again.
No need to redownload everything, just remove the "p2stateno = 6000" from state 340's hitdef.

Hope it's the last bug. :P

Also, glad you guys liked it.
About God's Anger edit: A.I. still in progress, so there's some holes here and there, I know. It does fine against players, but some weird things happens against cpu chars. What I want to ask is about the "neither hit the the other" thing. They really shouldn't hit each other or it just went trough?
About the portrait, thanks, will update it in the next opportunity. :)

Nio: I don't think she'll be update yet again any time soon, but play safe if you will. ;P

Last Edit: January 10, 2009, 12:37:36 am by Dr. H

Cybaster

Re: King 98 UM Updated 09/01/2009
#23  January 10, 2009, 12:28:07 am
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oups, I was modifying my last message, sorry for the inconvenience. :P

Oh, your SFF sprites are not all cropped, either. The char being finished, it's time to do that. :yes:
Last Edit: January 10, 2009, 12:33:56 am by God's Anger

NiO KuSaNaGi

Re: King 98 UM Updated 09/01/2009
#24  January 10, 2009, 12:31:57 am
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whyyyyyyyyyy?

xD

well, since I do't know what to change exactly, I'm a noob at codes, I will redownload her again (in a few minutes if something comes up again)

:P
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Omegalord99

Re: King 98 UM Updated 09/01/2009
#25  January 10, 2009, 01:51:58 am
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LMAO at Kyo and all of Cybaster's fixes

Cybaster

Re: King 98 UM Updated 09/01/2009
#26  January 10, 2009, 02:14:26 am
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Dr. H said, January 10, 2009, 12:24:25 am
What I want to ask is about the "neither hit the the other" thing. They really shouldn't hit each other or it just went trough?
I got to perform it alone at slow 9 speed. :P

It seems that Kyo "thinks" he grabs King, but King cannot be grabbed. It turns out that they both pass through, and Kyo then continues to perform the move ad vitam eternam.
Also, this seems to happen only with the HK version of Tornado Kick, due to the vels of her jump.

Dr. H

Re: King 98 UM Updated 09/01/2009
#27  January 10, 2009, 04:21:22 am
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That's funny, she's supposed to have a default CLNS covering her body there, why it's not being displayed...?
Will change it to a normal clns, hope it'll fix it. At least it's not the one covering her legs, so the move's priority is still fine.

The bug itself, I'm pretty sure it's Kyo's stuff, tornado's codes are pretty clean and I see not wrong there.

Dr. H

Re: King 98 UM Updated 10/01/2009 *Final*
#28  January 10, 2009, 05:05:49 am
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*Clns issue fixed
*Portrait by Cybaster
*Correct Spark pos for projectiles
*Cropped SFF


Meh, sorry for the many updates... the price for quality. :P

Cybaster

Re: King 98 UM Updated 10/01/2009 *Final*
#29  January 10, 2009, 01:49:39 pm
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Yeah, I'm bugging you to hell, but I found some little things. ;D

- Ex Venom Strike gives back power to King.
- Double Strike gives back power to King.

Dr. H

Re: King 98 UM Updated 10/01/2009 *Final*
#30  January 10, 2009, 06:35:24 pm
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Bastard Wolf

Re: King 98 UM Updated 10/01/2009 *Final*
#31  January 10, 2009, 08:07:26 pm
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You've reached the bandwith limit. :S

Omegalord99

Re: King 98 UM Updated 10/01/2009 *Final*
#32  January 10, 2009, 08:17:11 pm
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LOL

Dr. H

Re: King 98 UM Updated 10/01/2009 *Final*
#33  January 10, 2009, 09:25:31 pm
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Google sites suck ass, not recommended. :P
Already making my move, wait a bit.

DKDC

Re: King 98 UM Updated 10/01/2009 *Final*
#34  January 10, 2009, 10:43:56 pm
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If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.

NiO KuSaNaGi

Re: King 98 UM Updated 10/01/2009 *Final*
#35  January 10, 2009, 10:50:15 pm
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Vans

Re: King 98 UM Updated 10/01/2009 *Final*
#36  January 11, 2009, 06:17:28 am
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- Wrong hop back sounds.
- Wrong jump sounds, those sounds are for throws only.
- Wrong land sound, that's used for special throws only.
- Lack of AOF hitsound, kills feeling.
- Lack of any type of hitground sounds or explods.
- Leave life and defense values as the default for compatibility.
- Bad hard hitspark.
- Bad ground.type for close LK, far LK, HP, HK.
- Missing chains, Crouching LK => Crouching LP. Crouching LP/LK => Standing LP/LK.
- Missing reversed commands.
- Standing CD attack never hits.
- Lack of a movetype = I set in ALL moves. She will gets knocked out quickly by counter hits.
- Wrong hitsparks in throws, specials and supers. The big sparks are only for specials and supers, the medium sparks are for hard basics and throws. The small sparks are for light basics only.
- Venom Strike projectiles are supposed to travel full screen.
- The command for Tornado Kick is wrong, it's HCB + K.
- Command clash with RDP + K and Tornado Kick.
- Trap Shot is supposed to lift the opponent off the ground. Final hitvel is wrong, width is WAY too high.
- Second projectile of Double Strike is supposed to knock down.
- Surprise Rose is supposed to deal 22 hits counting the first launcher. ground.type for opponent is wrong, it switches between high and low between each hit.

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Dr. H

Re: King 98 UM Updated 10/01/2009 *Final*
#37  January 11, 2009, 08:14:23 am
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Quote
- Wrong hop back sounds.
- Wrong jump sounds, those sounds are for throws only.
- Wrong land sound, that's used for special throws only.
- Lack of any type of hitground sounds or explods.
- Bad ground.type for close LK, far LK, HP, HK.
Will fix that.

Quote
- Lack of AOF hitsound, kills feeling.
Will re-check those, but she already uses it on Tornado kicks and Surprise Rose, don't recall it being used anywhere else.

Quote
- Leave life and defense values as the default for compatibility.
?
I think she needs some life handicap, what type of incompatibility it could bring?

Quote
- Missing chains, Crouching LK => Crouching LP. Crouching LP/LK => Standing LP/LK.

As I said, she does have the crouch chain, is it that hard to pull it off? :S
The lack of stand chain was done in purpose for balance, decision taken during some versus matches.

Quote
- Missing reversed commands.
Will search for some info about those things.

Quote
- Standing CD attack never hits.
Typo mistake, fixed.

Quote
- Lack of a movetype = I set in ALL moves. She will gets knocked out quickly by counter hits.
?
The only 2 moves that don't use that are Venom Strike and Double Strike, I think she's supposed to get counter hits there. Will check it though.

Quote
- Wrong hitsparks in throws, specials and supers. The big sparks are only for specials and supers, the medium sparks are for hard basics and throws. The small sparks are for light basics only.
Nice knowing that, will redo then.

Quote
- Venom Strike projectiles are supposed to travel full screen.
Balance + I wanted to give a more differences between Normal Venom and Ex.

Quote
- The command for Tornado Kick is wrong, it's HCB + K.
Did that so crouch b->crouch a-> tornado combo would be easier.

Quote
- Command clash with RDP + K and Tornado Kick.
Priority order is fine + never had problems with that.

Quote
- Trap Shot is supposed to lift the opponent off the ground. Final hitvel is wrong, width is WAY too high.
Did that in purpose as I don't like how trap shot's been handled in KOF. SHaped the hitvels so the trap shot -> Surprise Rose corner combo would come out in a proper, balanced way. Might re-checkit anyway, as well as the width.

Quote
- Second projectile of Double Strike is supposed to knock down.
Did that in purpose, move is both less safe and promotes interesting setups in corner.

Quote
- Surprise Rose is supposed to deal 22 hits counting the first launcher. ground.type for opponent is wrong, it switches between high and low between each hit.
Changed the general aesthetics of this move, 98's lasts too long, plus the first movement is just plain weird.  Will Change p2 behaviour.


Thanks for those, BTW, please check your PM on Trinity forum.
 
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