Infinites:

- dash 5A x N
- j.A j.B j.236C x N (tested on KFM, tried A+B recovery but couldn't recover)
- 5A is +3 and 2A is +2 on block. Either make dashes not cancelable frame 1, or reduce frame advantage on block.

- I like that there's frame data for specials, since it shows that you've analyzed moves on hit and on block, unlike 99.9999...% of creations. It'd be good if you had them for normals, too.

- Crouching normals shouldn't be air-unblockable.

- 6B is way too fast for a comboable anime overhead (again, depends on how powerful you want your character to be, I can't comment on that). Anime overheads are about 20-25 frames.

- 5A 5B 5C doesn't connect outside point-blank range, which is really annoying. Maybe reduce pushback on hit?

- j.C(1) has a huge hitbox and has the same startup as j.B. I'd make it a few frames slower.
- I feel like j.C(1) should have another CLSN that covers some range vertically, but it shouldn't be too ridiculous.

- I'd like a shortcut for instant air dashes. Something like 96/74 (BB/GG), or two button shortcuts (Marvel/Melty Blood) would be good.
- Add a counterhit system/combos where you hit the opponent out of the air. I dunno :s

- I have a pet peeve against projectiles that you can't fire again until the explosion effects are completely gone, but it might just be me. I'd rebalance it so that it has more recovery or something.

- Throw should be techable. I haven't tested it enough, but you don't want it to end up something like Talbain's HK option select.

- 4B feels really weak. There aren't any followups on a successful anti-air attempt and the opponent just recovers in the air (waiting to be punched by 4B again, if they have no options - in that case make it induce fall or a reset like SF4).

Yea, we're not changing this. SFA3, GG and Melty Blood said we were right.

Why didn't you say this from the beginning? Would have saved us a lot of trouble.

It's like that in SFA3 btw, I checked.

(jump forward j.A j.2B) x N is an infinite on standing characters. Tested on KFM.

I guess j.A and j.B's hitboxes are okay.

Awesome, the changes sound good.

More infinites:
(something) xx 236A, (5C 236A) x N, tested on KFM in the corner. I couldn't tech in the air.
Against herself: (sweep) j.2B x N. Dive kick resets the getup time and I couldn't tech.

About the j.A j.B j.236C infinite, I could replicate it using the B version (note that this was in the corner against KFM). I'd apply a fix to all versions just to be sure.

Besides, its not like I'm going to be updating Yukari any time soon if that's what you were thinking

Ricepigeon said, April 27, 2013, 09:05:00 pm

I don't mind, especially considering you want to keep their spellcard system whereas I scrapped it.

But...that spell card system made your characters unique. And that even in a good way.

No, I was thinking about the remaining ones, namely Mokou, Hina, Sanae, Kanako, Komachi. Yukari is pretty much complete now, and I don't think I'll change anything further except for maybe minor adjustments and fixing bugs if there are any left.
I was starting to update Mokou_RP today then I noticed this topic and decided to stop until I know your plans.
I would rather focus on making my own characters, There are plenty of them remaining to do, Marisa, Kaguya, Satori, Orin, Sakuya, and Mokou just to name the most important ones I would want to make.  Of course if you are completely removing the whole system, the branching would make sense, question is, is there demand for the old spellcard system versions, or do people prefer the spellcard-less ones you are (will be) making.

Trinitronity said, April 27, 2013, 10:12:04 pm

Ricepigeon said, April 27, 2013, 09:05:00 pm

I don't mind, especially considering you want to keep their spellcard system whereas I scrapped it.

But...that spell card system made your characters unique. And that even in a good way.

Was contemplating keeping that system in a way, but heavily limited to only choosing between 2 level 3 supers, ala Ultra select in SSF4. Decided against it though, 3/4 supers is enough imo.

- (41236C 6C) x n is an infinite in the corner.

- Outside that infinite, you can perform some stupid loops with Lie's axe kick like 5A 5B 2C (41236C j.2B) x 3. It's not an infinite since the opponent will automatically wake up after some time.

- This was an attempt to find an infinite in the corner: (IAD j.A j.236A) x n. j.A whiffs on the second rep even though Lie’s red CLSN overlaps Training’s blue CLSN. Even a dash 5A after a rep whiffs. I’m guessing this has to do with the juggling system.

- j.236A was +20-25 on hit when performed at a low height (as above). The blockstun and hitstun should be toned down a bit.

- Any blockstring or grounded combo > Raging Demon hits even if the opponent tries to jump it, which it shouldn't. IIRC, it should be not jumpable after super flash if and only if the opponent is in a neutral state (refer to Akuma's raging demon in any game). Don't make grabs hit on state 40, state 0’s first frame (neutral), and every other state where the opponent should be invincible to grabs.

- j.2B is pretty damn overpowered. It's a high attack that you can execute as soon as you leave the ground, which means that it can be used as a ~18-frame overhead. Even if it's blocked it's still +9, which is ridiculous; it discourages the other person from ever pressing a button, especially since you're right next to them. The best they can do is press a jab if they expect a slow move (e.g. another dive kick for a second overhead). It's also got good priority, so even if the opponent expects a dive kick and retaliates with a jab, it’ll most likely trade or get stuffed.

- This is honestly personal preference, but I don’t like how she slides after she lands from a jump

- Landing recovery should be cancelable into normals and specials. This makes the character feel less stiff and enables empty jump mixups.

- 5A 5B 5C still doesn’t combo outside of point-blank range. I don’t know if this is feasible, since the pushback on her moves look pretty good.

- The 22 motion overlaps with 2C 41236C, so I usually get sweep > demon flip when I meant to do sweep > axe kick. ArcSys had that same exact problem with Rachel, but they changed Sword Iris to 214C lol

- (41236C 6C) x n is an infinite in the corner.

- Outside that infinite, you can perform some stupid loops with Lie's axe kick like 5A 5B 2C (41236C j.2B) x 3. It's not an infinite since the opponent will automatically wake up after some time.

- This was an attempt to find an infinite in the corner: (IAD j.A j.236A) x n. j.A whiffs on the second rep even though Lie’s red CLSN overlaps Training’s blue CLSN. Even a dash 5A after a rep whiffs. I’m guessing this has to do with the juggling system.

- j.236A was +20-25 on hit when performed at a low height (as above). The blockstun and hitstun should be toned down a bit.

- Any blockstring or grounded combo > Raging Demon hits even if the opponent tries to jump it, which it shouldn't. IIRC, it should be not jumpable after super flash if and only if the opponent is in a neutral state (refer to Akuma's raging demon in any game). Don't make grabs hit on state 40, state 0’s first frame (neutral), and every other state where the opponent should be invincible to grabs.

- j.2B is pretty damn overpowered. It's a high attack that you can execute as soon as you leave the ground, which means that it can be used as a ~18-frame overhead. Even if it's blocked it's still +9, which is ridiculous; it discourages the other person from ever pressing a button, especially since you're right next to them. The best they can do is press a jab if they expect a slow move (e.g. another dive kick for a second overhead). It's also got good priority, so even if the opponent expects a dive kick and retaliates with a jab, it’ll most likely trade or get stuffed.

- This is honestly personal preference, but I don’t like how she slides after she lands from a jump

- Landing recovery should be cancelable into normals and specials. This makes the character feel less stiff and enables empty jump mixups.

- 5A 5B 5C still doesn’t combo outside of point-blank range. I don’t know if this is feasible, since the pushback on her moves look pretty good.

- The 22 motion overlaps with 2C 41236C, so I usually get sweep > demon flip when I meant to do sweep > axe kick. ArcSys had that same exact problem with Rachel, but they changed Sword Iris to 214C lol

All right, I've taken the liberty to do some quick debugging and I see it now. It looks incredibly strict though, having to input the axe kick command nearly the instant you're able to do anything else. Do you have any idea how many frames do you have before the opponent touches the ground from 6C?

That's what I meant, but I think I was thinking about CvS2 where characters couldn't block for a brief moment after landing, but I'm pretty sure Lie doesn't have this.

trigger1 = AnimElemTime(3) >= 0 && AnimElemTime(4) < 0

Lie's jump j.A j.2B against KFM. Dive kick does 45 damage when uncombo'd rather than the 60 damage it normally deals. I can't think of anything else, but I'm sure that there are a bunch more examples out there if you test out some meaty moves and uncombo them.

More Hong stuff:
- 5B x 3 => I noticed that 5B didn't cause fall when you hit the 5B low enough, and traced it back to this code:

Code:

[State -2, P2 Recovery]; Notice how ID 200 is being used. ID must match those Hitdefs
type= targetstate
trigger1= numtarget(555)
trigger1 = var(7)<=0
trigger1= target,pos y>=-20 && target,vel y>0 // This line here
trigger1= (target(555), stateno=5020) && (target(555), alive) && (target(555), hitfall)
ID= 555
value= 5085

Is there a reason for that line? It seems pretty arbitrary to me.

- 5A is air blockable.

- She snaps back oddly to the left when doing j.3C.

- What are her chaining rules supposed to be? I can't chain 5A 2B, which is kinda weird when I can do 5A 2C.

- Are her air normals supposed to automatically turn her around? All of them do that, including her command normals, with the exception of j.C.