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Private characters, stages and screenpacks. (Read 1404 times)

Started by ink, April 30, 2013, 06:18:29 pm
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Private characters, stages and screenpacks.
#1  April 30, 2013, 06:18:29 pm
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I just want to here both sides of this. Whats your opinion?!

What do you think about creators who release their characters privately?
What do you think about creators who lock their work so code and sprites can not be "stolen"?
What do you think about spriters whom you have to ask permission to use their original sprites?
Is there anything wrong with any of these?

I myself can see both sides of this. I am stuck right in the middle for once! I think this is why... I have always made sprites and animations that I do open source I think mainly because they don't take much time or effort on my part for small amount of sprite work and they are usually just a small piece of a character that already excite anyways but now that I am making a full character I can see where someone would want to keep other peoples hands off. All that hard work building something from scratch and then just letting it go into anyones hands seems kind've crazy. I feel ashamed to admit that I feel this way sometimes but its something that can't be shaken. Plus I don't see how keeping something like sprites for a character would prevent anyone from learning something in MUGEN its not the same as keeping code under lack and key.

My feeling towards programming seems to be different though, Maybe because I don't program anything in MUGEN. I feel all programing should be open for anyone to learn/share. I also believe this is the main thing that will keep MUGEN moving forward.

I know it's going to be easy for people who only download and use the work to say "Private stuff is dumb!" but I would like to here from people that have been in my shoes. Working hard to create something new.
Last Edit: April 30, 2013, 06:22:36 pm by ink

Duos

Re: Private characters, stages and screenpacks.
#2  April 30, 2013, 06:25:45 pm
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Generally these days private characters are made so for two reasons.

1.As betas only given to trusted testers.
2.Because the characters are edits that the original creator may not be happy with.

I have a good chunk of private edits of characters, similar to the Ash Crimson I released.  I have not shared them for reason 2.

Just No Point

Re: Private characters, stages and screenpacks.
#3  April 30, 2013, 06:33:52 pm
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What do you think about creators who release their characters privately? That's cool

What do you think about creators who lock their work so code and sprites can not be "stolen"? Better lock it up on their PC. Otherwise they are delusional if they share it with anyone else.

What do you think about spriters whom you have to ask permission to use their original sprites? I won't ask. I'll just use them :P I'll credit the hell out of them and I will obviously be in love with them and their work.

Is there anything wrong with any of these? Nothing "wrong" per say. Everyone has their own little quirks I guess.

Markpachi

Re: Private characters, stages and screenpacks.
#4  April 30, 2013, 06:54:11 pm
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Copied JnP's format.

What do you think about creators who release their characters privately?
I won't really care unless the said character is a super accurate-to-the-source Acguy from Gundam Battle Assault.


What do you think about creators who lock their work so code and sprites can not be "stolen"?
They're alright to me as long as it's for a good reason. (Commissioned/custom sprites, music, etc.)


What do you think about spriters whom you have to ask permission to use their original sprites?
If ever they state that permission is needed, i'll talk to them. Nothing wrong with talking. :P


Is there anything wrong with any of these?
Nothing's wrong with that as long as there's a good reason.



Basara Dandy

Re: Private characters, stages and screenpacks.
#5  April 30, 2013, 07:02:55 pm
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ink said, April 30, 2013, 06:18:29 pm
What do you think about creators who release their characters privately?
What do you think about creators who lock their work so code and sprites can not be "stolen"?
What do you think about spriters whom you have to ask permission to use their original sprites?
Is there anything wrong with any of these?
-In the past I was against that, but now I think every creator is in his/her own right of make their works private and no one should complain about it (unless it was public and later he/she become private, except with leaked creations)
-I think it's a bad thing, but it has to do with the first question in the end. I've few chars and stuff that are open source, but if someone ask me about permission, probably I won't say no :P
-Unless the sprites are very few, I think there shouldn't be done, especially if the spriter isn't a coder and wants to see his creation be done in MUGEN. Of course the exception is the commisioned works, since it was made privately for someone else who paid for these sprites
-All depends of the point of view, not all creators make his stuff closed source and there's no MUGEN police like in the past (like when KFM ruled Guild, oh dark times)

Also, contrary to the title, the questions are more focused on characters only, there're a lot of other MUGEN stuff that are private apart of chars, and I'm not necessarily I referred to WIPs

ink

Re: Private characters, stages and screenpacks.
#6  April 30, 2013, 10:01:46 pm
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MC2 said, April 30, 2013, 06:25:45 pm
""
I figured as much. I have a few totally junk creations I was experimenting on that will never be played by anyone but me. if that!

Just No Point said, April 30, 2013, 06:33:52 pm
""
I don't know why but I was really hoping you would post your opinion in this thread. I totally agree with your thoughts.


All really good opinions on the subject. honestly I feel like I made this thread to kind of weigh out a few things I have had on my mind. I know it is better for everyone if everything is open source but at the same time... in some cases its hard to not be stingy. haha

Long story short. I get why these things happen.



Please keep the opinions coming.



Jmorphman

Re: Private characters, stages and screenpacks.
#7  April 30, 2013, 10:13:56 pm
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Code and sprites should be treated the same, IMO: neither should be private. They take a great deal of effort to produce, so keeping them private seems silly and counterproductive to me.

Rajaa

Re: Private characters, stages and screenpacks.
#8  April 30, 2013, 10:21:54 pm
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Only worry about this shit if you're a company and you're trying to run a business.

Just No Point

Re: Private characters, stages and screenpacks.
#9  April 30, 2013, 10:32:07 pm
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The only thing anyone should really worry about is if profit is being made from your work IMO. Believe me, I know what you mean by taking the time to create certain things and wanting to feel like you can sort of keep it exclusive.

I've been there. With my sprite rips I didn't want other people hosting them at 1st. I mean, I never said that. But I was wanting to use them to help draw traffic to my comic. My comic was a HUGE undertaking that took 3 years to create over 300 pages. At 1st I wanted to have all kinds of exclusivity with it. Again I didn't say anything aloud. I just kept reminding myself that these are egotistical things I need to let go of. If other people wanted to use anything from my comic or even upload it they could do so.

I'm also the same way when people give me feedback on projects. My initial reaction is to think their ideas are not as good as my own. I bite my tongue and process the info trying to filter out the ego factor. A lot of the time I decide their ideas are better after that.
     Posted: April 30, 2013, 10:33:35 pm
If you want views on the other extreme just look for topics similar in nature to this about 6 years old or older. Oh Lordy DX

Lith

Re: Private characters, stages and screenpacks.
#10  May 01, 2013, 06:01:31 am
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I hate people who lock their code and sprites. Basterman I think his name was, released a couple of good screenpacks a while ago but he hid the files away. I couldn't edit them to my liking, or extract the lifebar from it like I tend to do with other screenpacks.

Xan

Re: Private characters, stages and screenpacks.
#11  May 01, 2013, 06:07:41 am
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What do you think about creators who release their characters privately?
It's fine as long as it's not mindless ego stroking.

What do you think about creators who lock their work so code and sprites can not be "stolen"?
Never heard of that happening. O_o

What do you think about spriters whom you have to ask permission to use their original sprites?
It's fine, especially if they haven't released a complete set yet like how CVSNB approaches this.

Is there anything wrong with any of these?
Not really, there's usually good reason.
MY YOUTUBE || MY TUMBLR
Umezono said, September 09, 2014, 01:53:10 pm
Xan is always lovable
Alpaca-San said, December 27, 2014, 08:50:31 am
Is finding MUGEN to be more enjoyable to play when you're not wearing clothes an underrated opinion?

_Data_Drain_

Re: Private characters, stages and screenpacks.
#12  May 01, 2013, 06:14:48 am
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1: Private characters are okay... If they're actually, well you know, private...

I recall some drama at one point due to a character someone was flaunting about, and carelessly giving it to people... And then it got leaked. And oh boy... The drama...

...

Anyway, moving on.

2: I'm with CAN here, I've never heard of the second thing either.

3: Hm... I can honestly understand this. If it's a spritesheet/coding that was VERY difficult to make... Yeah, I feel asking permission is the right thing to do here. Just to let the creator decide if they want their work used like this... At the very least, people should give proper credit.

4: Well... Again there's not much wrong with any of the above. But it is annoying when someone pretty much waves something in other people's faces. Via video or screenshots. Pretty much going "Hey look at this character... I'm not gonna ever release it, but you can look at it!"

And again, nothing too wrong with protecting your work. As long as you aren't a jerk about it.

Well, there's my 25 cents for this topic.

Jango Hakamichi

Re: Private characters, stages and screenpacks.
#13  May 01, 2013, 12:24:19 pm
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What do you think about creators who release their characters privately? What private characters? J/K I used to have a few of 'em, but I lost them in a computer crash so whatever (STRIPES was the best private boss character I ever had. I won't go into details about it though, just take my word for it).

What do you think about creators who lock their work so code and sprites can not be "stolen"? They're wasting their time on unnecessary stuff, and coming from me, that's saying a lot. And don't get me started on moleboxing.

What do you think about spriters whom you have to ask permission to use their original sprites? I'll ask as a common courtesy, or at the very least show them what I'm intending to do. Not for "permission" or anything, but "hey, here's a heads up of what I'm doing with your stuff." If they like it fine, if not, then I'll respect their wishes.

Is there anything wrong with any of these? It's not so much "wrong" as it is "why does this matter?"

BladeStorm_X

Re: Private characters, stages and screenpacks.
#14  May 01, 2013, 03:19:39 pm
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ink said, April 30, 2013, 06:18:29 pm
What do you think about creators who release their characters privately?

It's fine as long as they don't go around bragging about it.

ink said, April 30, 2013, 06:18:29 pm
What do you think about creators who lock their work so code and sprites can not be "stolen"?
What do you think about spriters whom you have to ask permission to use their original sprites?


It's their hard work so it's up to them whether they let you use it or not.

WatsonGrim69

Re: Private characters, stages and screenpacks.
#15  May 02, 2013, 10:03:17 am
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Q:What do you think about creators who release their characters privately?

A: For testing purposes of course. & keep it under wraps until he/she feels comfortable show sprites & or a vid.


Q:What do you think about creators who lock their work so code and sprites can not be "stolen"?

A:They put their heart, soul & time out of their  lives to create such beauty & substance to the the user(Dealer) aren't they entiled to do so?

Q:Is there anything wrong with any of these?

A: Naw, you speaking your mind creating parties of thoughts & limitations  to  known & various authors, testers & players to this topic.

Seravy

Re: Private characters, stages and screenpacks.
#16  May 02, 2013, 05:51:22 pm
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Quote
What do you think about creators who release their characters privately?
Some stuff is being made for specific people (either as a present or on request), so it's reasonable that only those people get it.
Other than that, there can be plenty of reasons for not releasing something for the public like it being incomplete or the author thinking it's not good enough. There is nothing wrong with this as long as the private characters are not announced in public. Posting "hey, I made this character but I'm not gonna release it" or bragging about a private character you have is wrong.

Quote
What do you think about creators who lock their work so code and sprites can not be "stolen"?
Meaningless, greedy, evil, egoist, etc...
It can be taken anyway, it just wastes more time of both the author and the person trying to take it.
Locking good stuff means people will have a harder time learning how to make good content.
Locking bad stuff means it won't get improved and will remain bad.
In both cases, it's a loss for everyone.

Quote
What do you think about spriters whom you have to ask permission to use their original sprites?
Is there anyone who cares about it? The sprites are there in the downloaded character so you can use them anyway, regardless of what that person you don't know thinks or says. Just like how you would use sprites ripped from a commercial game without the author's permission, you can do it for original sprites as well. There is no difference, really.
Of course, learning to sprite, learning the art style of that author, then drawing the exact same thing yourself would result in the same thing and you wouldn't need permission for that, but pressing the "Import sprites" button saves a few years of your lifetime, so I vote for that. If it's a person I actually know, I might let them know "Hey, I'm going to use your sprites/edit you character, hope you don't mind, but I'm doing it even if you do.", otherwise I won't bother.

Bastard Walt

Re: Private characters, stages and screenpacks.
#17  May 02, 2013, 06:54:19 pm
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Seravy said, May 02, 2013, 05:51:22 pm
Quote
What do you think about spriters whom you have to ask permission to use their original sprites?
Is there anyone who cares about it?
The spriters who make their sprites.

Spriting is Pixel Art. Pixel Art is still ART. Artists are proud of their work.

"We live in a world of perpetual outrage"

Basara Dandy

Re: Private characters, stages and screenpacks.
#18  May 02, 2013, 09:24:14 pm
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Seravy said, May 02, 2013, 05:51:22 pm
Quote
What do you think about spriters whom you have to ask permission to use their original sprites?
Is there anyone who cares about it? The sprites are there in the downloaded character so you can use them anyway, regardless of what that person you don't know thinks or says. Just like how you would use sprites ripped from a commercial game without the author's permission, you can do it for original sprites as well. There is no difference, really.
I see you never made a character with a spriter who provide/make exclusive sprites to you for make a character. I made like 4 (2 of them I'm working actually) and it makes you appretiate the work of spriters (and rippers, of course). And in my beginnings I was a spriter too, so I know better what I'm talking about.

And of course, what Walt said

Just No Point

Re: Private characters, stages and screenpacks.
#19  May 02, 2013, 11:32:59 pm
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Making sprites are irrelevant. If you want exclusivity you should make it into some kind of business. Otherwise the sprites are still fair game to be used just like a commercial game. We're in the age of digital sharing. It's a bit ridiculous to try to put rules on your work unless you got some real lawyers to back it up.

Bastard Walt

Re: Private characters, stages and screenpacks.
#20  May 03, 2013, 12:14:23 am
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I'm not saying I'm taking legal action if someone took my sprites. I just say I'd take action.

Spoiler: Actually, I have in the past (click to see content)

You can ask, they can comply if they want. I can't stop them from actually using those, but I will at least take action by openly saying I disapprove of the usage of the sprites I made. That won't change a thing, but at least I'll have my peace.
"We live in a world of perpetual outrage"

Seravy

Re: Private characters, stages and screenpacks.
#21  May 03, 2013, 02:17:25 am
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Basara-kun said, May 02, 2013, 09:24:14 pm
Seravy said, May 02, 2013, 05:51:22 pm
Quote
What do you think about spriters whom you have to ask permission to use their original sprites?
Is there anyone who cares about it? The sprites are there in the downloaded character so you can use them anyway, regardless of what that person you don't know thinks or says. Just like how you would use sprites ripped from a commercial game without the author's permission, you can do it for original sprites as well. There is no difference, really.
I see you never made a character with a spriter who provide/make exclusive sprites to you for make a character. I made like 4 (2 of them I'm working actually) and it makes you appretiate the work of spriters (and rippers, of course). And in my beginnings I was a spriter too, so I know better what I'm talking about.

And of course, what Walt said
Actually, someone did make the sprites for my Seravy character, so that's not true. I'm definitely happy that he made it for me, and I couldn't have done it myself, but I wouldn't care if someone took those sprites and made their own Seravy character from it for whatever reason. I would probably be happy about it if it's decent quality. Also, Sky79 is working on improving my Aura character's sprites (he had real life problems so I don't know if he made any progress in the past months, though), that would make the number of those characters 2. Other people who offered to make sprites never actually did, so far...

Sure, the artist can and should be proud of their art. That's all right. However, if I was an artist, I would be happy every time someone deems my art good enough to be used for their character.  If an artist isn't happy about their art being used, that's sad. I feel proud if my coding is used by others, why would sprites be different?

Quote
It's a bit ridiculous to try to put rules on your work unless you got some real lawyers to back it up.
It's ridiculous even if you have lawyers. You might win in the court but the popularity you lose will be not worth it.
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