The Mugen Fighters Guild - Redeeming Myself... Sorta.

AngelJr2129

Redeeming Myself... Sorta.

#1 February 17, 2012, 06:09:11 am

Underaverage Coder

Hello everyone, I'm AngelJr2129.

I've created a character that I'm not satisfied with, and I am remaking him:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxD7uGOQ3z8&lc=QB3T2GRzVJUtEeyYWsKGCfI3MD8K6bTucj6WKN3RLQI&context=C365d6c8ADOEgsToPDskJOuV_zBf2SRu-IoMS1xlNL

Yes, it is terrible. Here's the remade version so far:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZjZBRRnxkw

I need to know where to start, and how to make this character better in terms of fighting mechanics (I don't feel as strongly about this character as I did when I started creating him, mainly because he's a fan character, and that's apparently a sin. I feel I can make him a bit more plausible, though.)

P.S.: I'm a crap coder.

Edit 4-19-2012: I'm going to release the beta version of DJ riiiiiight here.

http://www.4shared.com/zip/ceRt1yj5/DemonJrDeluxe.html

Moveset:

a = light attack
b = medium attack
c = heavy attack
x = launcher
x (aerial) = air spike
y (for now) = grab and throw (I need this to be fixed, characters are thrown, but they don't look like they're legitly spit out. You'll see)

a+x = Giant Sword
b+x = Energy Rain
c+x = Knife Frenzy
D,b,x = Za Warudo

Last Edit: April 19, 2012, 07:44:14 pm by AngelJr2129

Cyanide

Re: Redeeming Myself... Sorta.

#2 February 17, 2012, 06:26:40 am

Legendary XIII
I am the eye of the storm to come!

Starting with a dodgy base is the best way to have problems. In addition, making something without any experience with fighting games at all is a bad idea ESPECIALLY when it's something original. Being a crap coder is unimportant you can always improve code, understanding good gameplay is way harder.

Based on some of the stuff you're doing, try playing MvC. The system is complex, but it will probably give you a certain feel to aim for that you can imitate without needing to be accurate.

I see many problems with it so far, clsn's and width would be my first comment, you're also limited by crap framecount. That character as it stands will not really ever reach a good standard. Mess with it, try things, don't bother releasing again unless you can get some more sprites to extend his attack base out and give him more than 1 frame moves.

In M.U.G.E.N there is no magic button

They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance.

AngelJr2129

Re: Redeeming Myself... Sorta.

#3 February 17, 2012, 06:31:17 am

Underaverage Coder

There's still alot I don't understand, for i've really only started, but if I need to play a few fighting games then so be it.

Thanks.

Duos

Re: Redeeming Myself... Sorta.

#4 February 17, 2012, 06:34:45 am

Online

I wouldn't take the comments about being a recolor to heart, because a lot of the people around here are into those dumb Len/Kula recolors so they're pretty much hypocrites anyway. : P

We can't legally link you to fighting game rom/emulators, but google should be able to do all the work in that regard. Good luck.

AngelJr2129

Re: Redeeming Myself... Sorta.

#5 February 17, 2012, 06:48:28 am

Underaverage Coder

MC2 said, February 17, 2012, 06:34:45 am

I wouldn't take the comments about being a recolor to heart, because a lot of the people around here are into those dumb Len/Kula recolors so they're pretty much hypocrites anyway. : P

I'll also deny that it's a recolour in general, mainly because I didn't just take a sprite and add goggles and different designs to a premade sprite. I made the sprites from scratch (Even though that's irrelevant bullshit, I'm confused how a custom sprite of an existing character would be a recolour).

Quote

We can't legally link you to fighting game rom/emulators, but google should be able to do all the work in that regard. Good luck.

I understand, I get roms and emulators every now and then, I know how the whole business works. And thanks, I'll need all the luck I can get.

Ricepigeon

Re: Redeeming Myself... Sorta.

#6 February 17, 2012, 07:59:38 pm

Mega Klinklang confirmed

AngelJr2129 said, February 17, 2012, 06:48:28 am

I'll also deny that it's a recolour in general, mainly because I didn't just take a sprite and add goggles and different designs to a premade sprite. I made the sprites from scratch (Even though that's irrelevant bullshit, I'm confused how a custom sprite of an existing character would be a recolour).

It sort of got grouped together when dealing with sonic "recolors" but thats irrelevant.

First thing you'll want to do is familiarize yourself a character. Ryu is usually a popular choice for SF, as is Guile. You'll more or less learn all the basics. Also, study hitboxes, frame advantages, animation times to get a feel. All attacks, even normals, have a purpose, which is a mistake that many including myself had made when putting priority into specials and supers while leaving normals as an afterthought. You'll want to ask yourself questions like "why would I want to use a jab instead of a roundhouse?" or "why can I not sweep Zangief during Double Lariat?" Of course none of this will make any sense without actually playing and looking at hitbox and frame data.

<<-- Updated 09/14/14

Alpaca-San said, February 09, 2014, 07:44:05 pm

You limit yourself so badly when you try to avoid variables. When you get over your fear of the "complexity" of variables, you will find yourself in a better place: A beautiful world where coding is actually fun.

AngelJr2129

Re: Redeeming Myself... Sorta.

#7 February 18, 2012, 05:48:34 am

Underaverage Coder

RicePigeon said, February 17, 2012, 07:59:38 pm

First thing you'll want to do is familiarize yourself a character. Ryu is usually a popular choice for SF, as is Guile. You'll more or less learn all the basics. Also, study hitboxes, frame advantages, animation times to get a feel. All attacks, even normals, have a purpose, which is a mistake that many including myself had made when putting priority into specials and supers while leaving normals as an afterthought. You'll want to ask yourself questions like "why would I want to use a jab instead of a roundhouse?" or "why can I not sweep Zangief during Double Lariat?" Of course none of this will make any sense without actually playing and looking at hitbox and frame data.

All of this seems far too advanced than it should, it almost sounds like I should make my character compatible with every other character in terms of hitboxes and clsns, which puts another question to mind:

How can I set the clsns on my character to meet the requirements of the mugen world?

I look at some clsns on a screenshot, and they have tons of them, some even inside others... I don't fully understand these, there has to be a step-by-step guide somewhere.

Cyanide

Re: Redeeming Myself... Sorta.

#8 February 18, 2012, 05:53:50 am

Legendary XIII
I am the eye of the storm to come!

good clsn boxes are not complicated. Most sprites will have 1-3 clsn2 and 1-2 clsn1's if they are an attack.

Don't outline your character. KFM has a perfectly decent tutorial that comes with mugen that shows how they did his clsn boxes.

I'm not going as far as ricepigeon. Don't study anything like as much as he's suggesting, that's for later. For now, play a fighter, see who in it you like, try and replicate the feel (you can do this with your imagination) and maybe work what your original character does around what they do. For example, you don't have a hadouken, but you might have a dashing move to take the same slot so link them up. Dash = qcf+P that sort of thing.

Don't get bedded in with technical shit, you won't enjoy yourself. Play a game or so, have fun, then try and make your character interesting based on that. You have enough knowledge with hitdefs and velsets to make a FUN character. Rest comes with time and practice.

In M.U.G.E.N there is no magic button

They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance.

AngelJr2129

Re: Redeeming Myself... Sorta.

#9 February 19, 2012, 01:34:32 pm

Underaverage Coder

Alright, so i've tried something new, but I can't quite get the attack to hit.

You see, I want an air attack that has a rotating sprite with the hitbox (the helper itself) to hit, but it won't hit, even if I make the hitbox fullscreen, it just won't hit.

Are helpers like this only used for special effects or what?

My coding for this helper:

[Statedef 651]
juggle = 4
anim = 651

[State 651, HitDef]
type = HitDef
trigger1 = Time = 0
attr = A,HA
hitflag = MAF
guardflag = MA
animtype = heavy
priority = 1,Hit
damage = 5,2
pausetime = 8, 8
sparkno = S3000
guard.sparkno = S3100
sparkxy = 0,0
hitsound = 5,0
guardsound = 6,0
ground.type = High
ground.slide = 10
ground.hit
ground.velocity = -4
sprpriority = 1

[State 651, HelperBiding]
type = PosSet
trigger1 = 1
x = root,Pos X
y = root,Pos Y

[State 651 Anim]
type = ChangeAnim
triggerall = root,var(0)=0
trigger1 = anim !=parent,anim + 651
value = parent,anim + 651

[State 651, ]
type = AngleDraw
trigger1 = 1

[State 651, ]
type = AngleAdd
trigger1 = 1
value = 15

[State 651]
type = destroyself
trigger1 = time > 20

2OS

Re: Redeeming Myself... Sorta.

#10 February 19, 2012, 03:12:59 pm

Ich schicke dich zur HOELLE ! ¡ ! ¡

1. Why is the hitdefs trigger time=0
2. Where is your movetype=a

[ 052012 ] Inazumachi 181/256 / deviantART / 2OS Grafphicsxz Dead Anims ( Orochi/Mizuchi ) / 608's FX Volume 3

AngelJr2129

Re: Redeeming Myself... Sorta.

#11 February 19, 2012, 08:02:41 pm

Underaverage Coder

Oh, I see now.

The hixbox won't follow the sprite...

I jumped over at one time and it DID hit behind DJ, but I kinda want it to follow the blade of the axe.

Am I perhaps being too fancy?

Cyanide

Re: Redeeming Myself... Sorta.

#12 February 19, 2012, 09:05:45 pm

Legendary XIII
I am the eye of the storm to come!

Right now yes, as clsn boxes don't follow angledraw anyway. You need to redraw them for each frame in the new position.

In M.U.G.E.N there is no magic button

They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance.

AngelJr2129

Re: Redeeming Myself... Sorta.

#13 February 19, 2012, 09:24:53 pm

Underaverage Coder

Alright, so I'm basing DJ off of the MvC3 system, and I want to create aerial combos... But there's a couple problems i've encountered

I can't stress how annoying this one is, but when I do an air attack, like his small air kick for that matter, it loops until he hits the ground... You can't do any other attack until you jump again, or else it just loops over and over again. Here's the coding:

[StateDef 630]
type = A
movetype= A
physics = A
juggle = 1
velset = 0,0
ctrl = 0
anim = 630
poweradd = 20
sprpriority = 2

[State 630, 3]
type = HitDef
trigger1 = AnimElem = 3
attr = A, NA
damage = 25
animtype = Light
guardflag = MA
hitflag = MAF
priority = 6, Hit
pausetime = 2, 2
sparkno = 0
sparkxy = -10, -76
hitsound = 5, 0
guardsound = 6, 0
ground.type = High
ground.slidetime = 5
ground.hittime = 12
ground.velocity = -4
airguard.velocity = -1.9,-.8
air.type = High
air.velocity = -1.4,-3
air.hittime = 12

[State 630, 6]
type = CtrlSet
trigger1 = Time = 6
value = 0

The Animation is 6 ticks, if that means anything. .~.

EDIT: The second problem is the hovering during the combo, I want it to turn out just like they do in MvC3. I just need to know how to set the hover in attacks.

Last Edit: February 19, 2012, 09:28:15 pm by AngelJr2129

Cyanide

Re: Redeeming Myself... Sorta.

#14 February 19, 2012, 10:03:45 pm

Legendary XIII
I am the eye of the storm to come!

You're using a ctrlset to 0 preventing you from doing anything. In addition, if your animation doesn't end on a -1 time frame it will loop.

The method here is to control the combo through the .cmd with secondary triggers and you need to decide how you want to manage the aerial moves and if you want the animation to maintain after the attack is complete or send you back to the jumping state.

In M.U.G.E.N there is no magic button

They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance.

AngelJr2129

Re: Redeeming Myself... Sorta.

#15 February 19, 2012, 11:01:36 pm

Underaverage Coder

Cyanide said, February 19, 2012, 10:03:45 pm

The method here is to control the combo through the .cmd with secondary triggers and you need to decide how you want to manage the aerial moves and if you want the animation to maintain after the attack is complete or send you back to the jumping state.

How am I supposed to do that? Secondary triggers? Move management?

*Young patawon's eyes cross*

Cyanide

Re: Redeeming Myself... Sorta.

#16 February 19, 2012, 11:45:25 pm

Legendary XIII
I am the eye of the storm to come!

Padawan =P

Ok here is a basic example of chaining a medium punch from a light punch

[mcode][State -1, Med Punch]
type = changestate
triggerall = command = "y" && statetype != A
trigger1 = ctrl
trigger2 = stateno = 200 && movecontact
value = 210[/mcode]

Trigger2 there defines an optional condition. You can have control OR you can be in the light punch state and have hit. The theory is the same for aerial moves. Add further triggers incrementing the number to add more options.

As for the other half, you need to try it. Make your last frame have a time of -1. The attack will no longer loop. Alternatively, leave it as is but swap the ctrlset for a changestate and send the character to state 50, once more with no control.

In M.U.G.E.N there is no magic button

They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance.

Ricepigeon

Re: Redeeming Myself... Sorta.

#17 February 21, 2012, 08:57:07 pm

Mega Klinklang confirmed

AngelJr2129 said, February 19, 2012, 01:34:32 pm

Alright, so i've tried something new, but I can't quite get the attack to hit.

You see, I want an air attack that has a rotating sprite with the hitbox (the helper itself) to hit, but it won't hit, even if I make the hitbox fullscreen, it just won't hit.

Are helpers like this only used for special effects or what?

Helpers can be used for pretty much anything; projectiles, explods, even stage elements if you want to get fancy. Main advantage of helpers is you have much greater control over than than you do with regular explods and projectiles.

Maybe I got overtechnical with my last post,

AngelJr2129 said, February 18, 2012, 05:48:34 am

All of this seems far too advanced than it should, it almost sounds like I should make my character compatible with every other character in terms of hitboxes and clsns, which puts another question to mind:

How can I set the clsns on my character to meet the requirements of the mugen world?

I look at some clsns on a screenshot, and they have tons of them, some even inside others... I don't fully understand these, there has to be a step-by-step guide somewhere.

You want the hitbox to be as general as possible without being over the top. Typically, 1-3 blue CLSN boxes is enough (most capcom and SNK games use two; one for the body and one for the head). Just whatever you do, avoid using Fighter Factory's autoCLSN tool.

General rule of thumb is that attacks need to trade hits, which is what blue CLSNs allow for when placed inside a red CLSN. Attacks that lack this are often said to have "infinite priority". While this does exist in some games, the blue box is usually smaller inside the red box in these cases. Also, when I said attacks should be able to trade hits, this goes for more or less any non-projectile attack (light attacks/jabs should be able to trade with strong/hard/roundhouse attacks). I'll avoid getting too technical here and just leave it at cover your red CLSNS with blue, even for projectiles (since projectiles need to trade hits with each other as well).

<<-- Updated 09/14/14

Alpaca-San said, February 09, 2014, 07:44:05 pm

You limit yourself so badly when you try to avoid variables. When you get over your fear of the "complexity" of variables, you will find yourself in a better place: A beautiful world where coding is actually fun.

AngelJr2129

Re: Redeeming Myself... Sorta.

#18 March 10, 2012, 08:40:22 am

Underaverage Coder

Cyanide said, February 19, 2012, 11:45:25 pm

Padawan =P

Ok here is a basic example of chaining a medium punch from a light punch

[mcode][State -1, Med Punch]
type = changestate
triggerall = command = "y" && statetype != A
trigger1 = ctrl
trigger2 = stateno = 200 && movecontact
value = 210[/mcode]

Trigger2 there defines an optional condition. You can have control OR you can be in the light punch state and have hit. The theory is the same for aerial moves. Add further triggers incrementing the number to add more options.

As for the other half, you need to try it. Make your last frame have a time of -1. The attack will no longer loop. Alternatively, leave it as is but swap the ctrlset for a changestate and send the character to state 50, once more with no control.

alright cool, thanks... :3

But does this mean the attacks can be chained successfully into a combo without the opponent blocking it, or should I add more hitstun to my attacks so the combos are possible? (I think that'd cause an infinite situation, so i'm not sure anymore .~.). I'm just trying to follow the MvC style, because it's sort of simple to me and I like it. I've done a few character missions, so I want combos to be set up the way they are there for my character.

Cyanide

Re: Redeeming Myself... Sorta.

#19 March 10, 2012, 08:50:54 am

Legendary XIII
I am the eye of the storm to come!

movecontact means hit or block. Doesn't matter which. Infinites are controlled by both hitvel, hittime and where needed a juggle limitation.

In M.U.G.E.N there is no magic button

They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance.

AngelJr2129

Re: Redeeming Myself... Sorta.

#20 March 10, 2012, 09:23:58 am

Underaverage Coder

alright, so that's taken care of.

but the juggling, I can't seem to do a juggle with his launcher attack. They just pause in the air when being hit by it and drop the rest of the way to the floor. Here's the coding:

[Statedef 5555]
type = S
movetype = A
physics = U
juggle = 15
velset = 0,0
ctrl = 0
anim = 5555

[State 5555, HitDef]
type = HitDef
trigger1 = Time = 0
attr = S,HA ;SCA,NA,SA,HA,NP,SP,HP,NT,ST,HT
hitflag = MAF ;HLAFD+-
guardflag = MA ;HLA ;B,E,F
animtype = heavy ;light,medium,hard,back,up,diagup
priority = 6,Hit
damage = 50,10
pausetime = 8, 8
sparkno = S3000
guard.sparkno = S3100
sparkxy = 0,0
hitsound = 5,0
guardsound = 6,0
ground.type = Low ;Low,Trip,None
ground.slide = 10
ground.hit
ground.velocity = 0,-8
sprpriority = 1
fall = 1

[State 5555]
type = destroyself
trigger1 = time = 18
value = 0
ctrl = 1

Btw, this is a helper doing this, that's why it has destroyself. I'd also like to learn how to Limit juggle, or add juggle decay.

Cyanide

Re: Redeeming Myself... Sorta.

#21 March 10, 2012, 11:22:19 am

Legendary XIII
I am the eye of the storm to come!

Do the limitation later. Mugens juggle system is kinda ick. And customising it takes some knowledge.

You used a doubleclick sctrl addition. Please copy a hitdef from somebody elses character and adapt it to your needs. The doubleclick you've used is apparently lacking parameters and has some incomplete

ground.hit is not valid for example.

Oh, and stay away from the 5000 series of states. 5000-5999 are classed as mugen hitstates by common community standard. You're better off not using them just in case essential stuff goes in there as the engine evolves.

In M.U.G.E.N there is no magic button

They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance.

AngelJr2129

Re: Redeeming Myself... Sorta.

#22 March 26, 2012, 07:03:48 pm

Underaverage Coder

Alright, so i've made updates to DJ, looking alright so far.

I still can't get the air combos to work though. For anything else, you'll just have to tell me, i'm clueless at this point.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4mdorXlOmc&list=UUIjt8a_bE-r6utUq-6ay_6A&index=1&feature=plcp

Dust Storm

Re: Redeeming Myself... Sorta.

#23 March 27, 2012, 07:18:36 pm

Dust to dust...
Online

From my experience from fighting games, an air combo is meant to pursue an opponent after a launcher. For example, knocking an opponent upward with an uppercut, and then following up with an air combo.

Oh, and it helps if you modify the hitstun.

Thanks for reading my signature.

AngelJr2129

Re: Redeeming Myself... Sorta.

#24 March 28, 2012, 07:39:55 am

Underaverage Coder

Yoshi Gear said, March 27, 2012, 07:18:36 pm

From my experience from fighting games, an air combo is meant to pursue an opponent after a launcher. For example, knocking an opponent upward with an uppercut, and then following up with an air combo.

Sorry but I kinda already know that... .~.
I've played and I understand the MvC games and fighting system.

Yoshi Gear said, March 27, 2012, 07:18:36 pm

Oh, and it helps if you modify the hitstun.

Won't that just put my character in hitstun as well? Like when he hits, he'd pause as long as the victim would?

Cyanide

Re: Redeeming Myself... Sorta.

#25 March 28, 2012, 07:46:06 am

Legendary XIII
I am the eye of the storm to come!

Only if you tell him to. Pausetime has a p1 and a p2 parameter.

In M.U.G.E.N there is no magic button

They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance.

AngelJr2129

Re: Redeeming Myself... Sorta.

#26 April 14, 2012, 10:19:56 pm

Underaverage Coder

Alright, so you guys might be wondering how my character's commin' along.

I'm debating whether or not I want to release him in Beta, but i'm afraid that if i do, i might lose the desire to finish him.

What do you guys think?

2OS

Re: Redeeming Myself... Sorta.

#27 April 15, 2012, 04:55:10 am

Ich schicke dich zur HOELLE ! ¡ ! ¡

Why in the world would a beta release kill your motivation ?

[ 052012 ] Inazumachi 181/256 / deviantART / 2OS Grafphicsxz Dead Anims ( Orochi/Mizuchi ) / 608's FX Volume 3

AngelJr2129

Re: Redeeming Myself... Sorta.

#28 April 15, 2012, 06:00:11 am

Underaverage Coder

Uh... Yeah... maybe it won't .~.

Ricepigeon

Re: Redeeming Myself... Sorta.

#29 April 17, 2012, 04:45:52 pm

Mega Klinklang confirmed

AngelJr2129 said, March 28, 2012, 07:39:55 am

Won't that just put my character in hitstun as well? Like when he hits, he'd pause as long as the victim would?

Cyanide said, March 28, 2012, 07:46:06 am

Only if you tell him to. Pausetime has a p1 and a p2 parameter.

It sounds to me like he's confusing hitfreeze (pausetime in mugen) with hitstun (hittime).

Pausetime is how long each character (both the attacker and the person being hit) freezes in place upon a move making contact. Generally, the values for P1 and P2 should always be equal.

Hittime (such as in ground.hittime, guard.hittime, and air.hittime) is how long a character stays in a hitstate (for example, stateno 5000) after being hit. If that character is hit by another move during this time, then that hit will register as a combo (as in, you'll get the number of hits sidebar that pops up whenever you perform a combo). If this time is too short and you hit with another attack, it will not register as a combo. If you're looking to make a move combo into another move, you'll need to keep this value in mind. Also, animation times play an important role in this (if the number of frames in an animation is longer than the hittime, it is possible for the opponent to hit you back before you finish the move, even if you successfully hit him). I won't go into detail about frame advantage or anything like that but the important thing is that you get the general idea of the difference between pausetime and hittime.

<<-- Updated 09/14/14

Alpaca-San said, February 09, 2014, 07:44:05 pm

You limit yourself so badly when you try to avoid variables. When you get over your fear of the "complexity" of variables, you will find yourself in a better place: A beautiful world where coding is actually fun.

AngelJr2129

Re: Redeeming Myself... Sorta.

#30 April 19, 2012, 07:28:48 pm

Underaverage Coder

Download for DJ here: http://www.4shared.com/zip/ceRt1yj5/DemonJrDeluxe.html

I'm realeasing this mainly for two reasons:

I need help with his throw to make it look like he's actually throwing them, it looks all buggy n' shet.

And to get the general idea of how he works and how far I've come.

Enjoy, that is, if you can.

(Moveset in first post)

Last Edit: April 19, 2012, 08:20:39 pm by AngelJr2129

GT

Re: Redeeming Myself... Sorta.

#31 April 19, 2012, 10:37:22 pm

Don't fuck with me, Jack!

Bad Y pos on one of the gethits.

Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

The tongue throw sends p2 to their own states.

Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

Prince Jango said, October 07, 2011, 11:45:18 pm

Yeah Titiln, in fact, You Made Him

AngelJr2129

Re: Redeeming Myself... Sorta.

#32 April 20, 2012, 06:49:14 am

Underaverage Coder

Hmm... Do I have to position him higher for the Y position? I never really got how to do that.

And thanks for pointing the states out, I'll look at it some more, thanks for the help! :3

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Re: Redeeming Myself... Sorta.

Re: Redeeming Myself... Sorta.

Re: Redeeming Myself... Sorta.

Re: Redeeming Myself... Sorta.