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something troubling me for quite some times.. (Read 1135 times)

Started by onloser, August 10, 2009, 03:51:15 pm
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onloser

something troubling me for quite some times..
#1  August 10, 2009, 03:51:15 pm
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I tried to edit the iori_XI created by Zelgadis after discovering that the character tends to fly higher after getting hit up comparing to other characters. I tried to adjust float value and check the animation but have found nothing abnormal. Any suggestion ?

What are the values that have effect on a character's height or speed of flying when he was blown away or getting hit in the air ?

DKDC

Re: something troubling me for quite some times..
#2  August 10, 2009, 04:17:27 pm
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.cns file => [Movement] => yaccel
If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.

onloser

Re: something troubling me for quite some times..
#3  August 10, 2009, 11:53:40 pm
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thanks.. but that's not the answer..

yaccel only affects the height and speed of jumping..

the character jumps normally but when tends to fly higher when he is blown up by opponent

Cyanide

Re: something troubling me for quite some times..
#4  August 11, 2009, 12:12:47 am
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Have a look for yaccel in the characters hitdef.


In M.U.G.E.N there is no magic button

They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance.

onloser

Re: something troubling me for quite some times..
#5  August 11, 2009, 09:58:05 am
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I tried that one also.. I will explain the problem more clearly..

I use kyo's double kick (second kick's air velocity = -3,-10), when kyo is kicked, he was sent up to maybe the height of -10, but when iori is kicked by the same move, he tends to fly higher and longer.. By the way, both characters are using the same common1.cns.

Cyanide

Re: something troubling me for quite some times..
#6  August 11, 2009, 10:00:11 am
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Either state 5050 has been overridden for iori, the Yaccel in the hitdef is specified or Byakko's suggestion is correct.

Those are your options. I doubt a custom state is in use or they'd both act the same.


In M.U.G.E.N there is no magic button

They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance.

DKDC

Re: something troubling me for quite some times..
#7  August 11, 2009, 02:07:29 pm
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onloser said, August 10, 2009, 11:53:40 pm
yaccel only affects the height and speed of jumping..

the character jumps normally but when tends to fly higher when he is blown up by opponent
Hum, did you try it ?
When jumping, there's first the initial velset, and then there's the veladd that simulates gravity. You CAN modify the veladd (i.. the yaccel) and still get a decent result if the initial velset is modified accordingly. So it's still possible that the yaccel is different in Iori's constants, and you'll still get a decent jump if his jumping velocity is also different. But if the yaccel is changed and nthe initial velst is unchanged (which is the case when looking at your opponent's hitdef), then it will behave differently, exactly  like what you're getting. If not the yaccel, what else do you think can make Iori fall back to the ground when he's kicked up ? Gravity is made by yaccel.
Usually it should never be changed, precisely because of hitdefs. Just check if he has the same as everyone else.
For comparison, click on this
[mcode]type = Gravity[/mcode]Gravity uses yaccel.
If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.
Last Edit: August 11, 2009, 02:11:20 pm by Byakko

onloser

Re: something troubling me for quite some times..
#8  August 16, 2009, 08:06:51 am
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thanks for the reply..

1. I tried to experiment with y.accel, it affects only the height of jumping only..
2. I can't find "gravity" in the character files
3. there is no statedef 5050 in the character

any suggestions ?

_Josue_

Re: something troubling me for quite some times..
#9  August 16, 2009, 08:37:00 am
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onloser said, August 16, 2009, 08:06:51 am
thanks for the reply..

1. I tried to experiment with y.accel, it affects only the height of jumping only..
2. I can't find "gravity" in the character files
3. there is no statedef 5050 in the character

any suggestions ?

[mcode]
------------------------------------------------------------
Gravity
------------------------------------------------------------
 

Accelerates the player downwards, using the value of the player's "yaccel" constant.
 

Required parameters:

  none

 
Optional parameters:

  none
 
Example:

  ; Applies constant acceleration throughout state
  trigger1 = 1
  type = Gravity
[/mcode]

Well well well, Open the problematic char's .def file should be iori.def or something like that
see if stcommon = common1.cns
otherwise it uses it's own file for common states, which is rarely possible.
else, you'll see if there is statedef 5050 in common1.cns which is used by all characters in mugen.
in statedef 5050 there is this controller that controls how fast the char should fall after getting hit

[mcode]
[State 5050, 3] ;Gravity
type = VelAdd
trigger1 = 1
y = GetHitVar(yaccel)
[/mcode]

which I think comes from hitdef's yaccel and is not Const(movement.yaccel)
Besides, State 5050 physics are N which is neutral, and there's no

[mcode]
[State 5050, 3]
type = Gravity
trigger1 = 1
[/mcode]
that makes me wonder if such feature is hardcoded.
Anyways, just try putting a very high value to yaccel, I guess 3 or 7, then check the move using iori and the other char in debug mode, see if the debug info becomes yellow, then it's a custom state problem.
Last Edit: August 16, 2009, 08:40:09 am by _Josue_

DKDC

Re: something troubling me for quite some times..
#10  August 16, 2009, 11:04:18 am
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Quote
which I think comes from hitdef's yaccel and is not Const(movement.yaccel)
Besides, State 5050 physics are N which is neutral, and there's no gravity that makes me wonder if such feature is hardcoded.
Well, the default value for the hitdef's yaccel is 0, so if there's no other gravity controller, then yes, it's most likely  hardcoded. I've been looking around  a bit, and I couldn't find any value that, when changed (to ridiculous values like -50), would give my char a different behavior when kicked up. I can't find anything that would make one specific character fly up differently than everyone else when kicked up... There may be something in Iori's files where the author put a custom acceleration - like a velmul or someting in his statedef -2 triggered by being in the appropriate gethit state.

... Are you absolutely sure that Iori flies differently from everyone else... ? I tried looking for Zelgadis's Iori_XI, found only his Orochi Iori, but couldn't find anything noticeable.
If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.

_Josue_

Re: something troubling me for quite some times..
#11  August 17, 2009, 12:57:28 am
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    • akkuis1173.me.pn/
Byakko said, August 16, 2009, 11:04:18 am
Quote
which I think comes from hitdef's yaccel and is not Const(movement.yaccel)
Besides, State 5050 physics are N which is neutral, and there's no gravity that makes me wonder if such feature is hardcoded.
Well, the default value for the hitdef's yaccel is 0, so if there's no other gravity controller, then yes, it's most likely  hardcoded. I've been looking around  a bit, and I couldn't find any value that, when changed (to ridiculous values like -50), would give my char a different behavior when kicked up. I can't find anything that would make one specific character fly up differently than everyone else when kicked up... There may be something in Iori's files where the author put a custom acceleration - like a velmul or someting in his statedef -2 triggered by being in the appropriate gethit state.

... Are you absolutely sure that Iori flies differently from everyone else... ? I tried looking for Zelgadis's Iori_XI, found only his Orochi Iori, but couldn't find anything noticeable.

I've done a couple of experiments, I just made a perfect copy of get hit states (with different numbers, from 50000 to 50050) and sent my target to them with targetstate, the results are weird! it moves somewhat as if it were in slow motion or some thing vert rare... that makes me think that there are lots of "obscure" things hardcoded within MUGEN... that makes me wonder how are ShugenDo and the other projects such as Open Mugen doing...
Last Edit: August 17, 2009, 01:12:33 am by _Josue_

_Josue_

Re: something troubling me for quite some times..
#12  August 18, 2009, 10:22:42 pm
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Byakko said, August 18, 2009, 09:45:47 pm
var(3):=0 sets var(3) to 0. It's just a shortcut for a varset, and you can put it anywhere where you can write an expression (like a trigger).
Thanks a lot Byakko, nobody answered my topic for more than a month. Alas, you didn't mention the other issue, the SFF one...
Anyways, about this problem, it's very mysterious, you can send your foe to a custom state just with this two controls

Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty
they will behave as if in slow motion... (state 50000  is a copy of state 5000)
trigger1 = !moveguarded since they're sent to state 50000 even if guarding.
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty
Even more annoying, you can actually send them to custom states with attr = S, NA
and they seem to move correctly...
What is startling about all this is that this hitdef can't be recognized by hitoverrides!
Last Edit: August 18, 2009, 10:30:07 pm by _Josue_

DKDC

Re: something troubling me for quite some times..
#13  August 18, 2009, 10:43:22 pm
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Quote
Alas, you didn't mention the other issue, the SFF one...
Uh, Cyanide did that fine even before you asked the question.
Cyanide said, July 06, 2009, 03:03:54 am
Don't bother. Linked sprites seem to break quite frequently through FF.
What don't you get it ? He's litterally saying very specifically that FF makes it break. As in, the problem is FF. So of course, since he already had replied, nobody did answer your question, because the answer was already right above your question.

Quote
What is startling about all this is that this hitdef can't be recognized by hitoverrides!
HitOverRide and p2stateno really hate each other with a passion. Yes, it doesn't work, and it's a fairly well known problem. That's one of the reasons why TargetState is better.
If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.

_Josue_

Re: something troubling me for quite some times..
#14  August 18, 2009, 11:05:03 pm
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  • Freedom is the right of all sentient beings.
    • akkuis1173.me.pn/
Byakko said, August 18, 2009, 10:43:22 pm
Quote
Alas, you didn't mention the other issue, the SFF one...
Uh, Cyanide did that fine even before you asked the question.
Cyanide said, July 06, 2009, 03:03:54 am
Don't bother. Linked sprites seem to break quite frequently through FF.
What don't you get it ? He's litterally saying very specifically that FF makes it break. As in, the problem is FF. So of course, since he already had replied, nobody did answer your question, because the answer was already right above your question.

Quote
What is startling about all this is that this hitdef can't be recognized by hitoverrides!
HitOverRide and p2stateno really hate each other with a passion. Yes, it doesn't work, and it's a fairly well known problem. That's one of the reasons why TargetState is better.
And I said I found a way to prevent FF from breaking, it just requires effort, now will the SFF weight be worth the effort?

:devilish:

 :smitten::wub: with a passion??? or  :argue: with a passion???

:laugh4:

ah sorry, you said hate :argue:
and about the TargetState... i'ts quite strange, even with a copy of state 5000 it behaves oddly!
it even behaves quite different with the HitOverRide but at least hits... crap! what to do what to do!
:wall: :wall: :wall:

Oh heck! what are you supposed to do for a custom state? what are the guidelines? or you can make the poor p2 do anything? even breaking the rules if any?
:wall: :wall: :wall: :wall:

what is supposed to be coded within the custom state? besides of the animation...
a Velset? or a HitVelset?
should there be a Lifeadd? or I should use TargetLifeadd?
:wall: :wall: :wall: :wall::wall: :wall: :wall:
Last Edit: August 18, 2009, 11:10:53 pm by _Josue_

DKDC

Re: something troubling me for quite some times..
#15  August 18, 2009, 11:37:02 pm
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On custom states.

You put an opponent by using type = TargetState, triggered at least by triggerall = numTarget, and when ythe move you want has hit.
TargetState puts the opponent into one of your states. As in, he wil read the code in your file and do whatever it says.
You make him play an animation you defined (he will use his own sprites but your animation)
you can put velocities, posadds and whatever
avoid doing anything with any variables, as it will use the opponent's variables, and you're sure to fuck him up if you do that
He does everything you say in your state, so if you put a type = LifeAdd with a negative value, he will do just that : he will lose some life.
When your done with him, never forget to send him back too his own state with a type = SelfState. Be sure to leave him so that he knows what to do - leave him in his liedown state or what else.
If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.

_Josue_

Re: something troubling me for quite some times..
#16  August 19, 2009, 03:36:33 am
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  • Freedom is the right of all sentient beings.
    • akkuis1173.me.pn/
Byakko said, August 18, 2009, 11:37:02 pm
On custom states.

You put an opponent by using type = TargetState, triggered at least by triggerall = numTarget, and when ythe move you want has hit.
TargetState puts the opponent into one of your states. As in, he wil read the code in your file and do whatever it says.
You make him play an animation you defined (he will use his own sprites but your animation)
you can put velocities, posadds and whatever
avoid doing anything with any variables, as it will use the opponent's variables, and you're sure to fuck him up if you do that
He does everything you say in your state, so if you put a type = LifeAdd with a negative value, he will do just that : he will lose some life.
When your done with him, never forget to send him back too his own state with a type = SelfState. Be sure to leave him so that he knows what to do - leave him in his liedown state or what else.
Thank you...
what's wrong with TargetLifeAdd, it's not obeying the defense multiplier just in some cases!

Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty
I mean, 117 damage is dealt to all my targets, even those that (like my modified version of Omega Zero)
have a DefenceMulSet of 0.5 in state -2. That doesn't happen to normal attacks. What is very curious is that it doesn't happen if I chain the throw with another attack. i.e. if I do a normal kick and before he recovers from the hit I do this throw, then it pays attention to the absolute = 0 parameter, otherwise not.
Last Edit: August 19, 2009, 03:39:37 am by _Josue_

Cyanide

Re: something troubling me for quite some times..
#17  August 19, 2009, 03:43:45 am
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There is a known bug with defencemulset that occured in the swap to winmugen. The multiplier does not take effect until the second hit in a combo. First hits will always deal full damage.


In M.U.G.E.N there is no magic button

They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance.

_Josue_

Re: something troubling me for quite some times..
#18  August 19, 2009, 06:49:32 am
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  • Freedom is the right of all sentient beings.
    • akkuis1173.me.pn/
Cyanide said, August 19, 2009, 03:43:45 am
There is a known bug with defencemulset that occured in the swap to winmugen. The multiplier does not take effect until the second hit in a combo. First hits will always deal full damage.
Ugly crap! is there any way to get it working? I don't want to give up with mugen just because of bugs like this...
wait a second, your signature, "mugen obscurity" Does that mean there are more odd annoying bugs?

Cyanide

Re: something troubling me for quite some times..
#19  August 19, 2009, 09:06:32 am
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Mugen has lots. But that's not why my site is called Mugen Obscurity.

There's no decent way around it. You could probably do

[state -2]
type = lifeadd
trigger1 = movetype = H && time = 0
value = floor(gethitvar(damage)/2)

as an option. But that probably wouldn't work considering states go through a number of transitions and damage would probably kick in for all of them. Or it wouldn't work for targetlifeadd controllers.

Normally when it comes to defence if they're ALWAYS going to have it on. Like from the start, double it in the constants rather than using the function.

Attackmulset is fine.


In M.U.G.E.N there is no magic button

They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance.

Rajaa

Re: something troubling me for quite some times..
#20  August 19, 2009, 01:35:00 pm
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You can make the defencemul activate only when you're being thrown so it works for targetlifeadds as well, you have to be targetbinded, though. You can also make it activate when in common animations like 5950, but it might be a bit risky to do this. :P

_Josue_

Re: something troubling me for quite some times..
#21  August 19, 2009, 07:53:21 pm
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Girl said, August 19, 2009, 01:35:00 pm
You can make the defencemul activate only when you're being thrown so it works for targetlifeadds as well, you have to be targetbinded, though. You can also make it activate when in common animations like 5950, but it might be a bit risky to do this. :P
Sorry to disappoint you but that's not the case, Girl...
(Girl??? :S)
The problem is that I want TargetLifeAdd to do as much damage as it's suppossed to!
I.E, my modified omega takes double damage in easy mode always (that's why I created the easy mode)  with defencemul in state -2 active ALWAYS for easy mode.
However that's not happening, when my other char uses TargetLifeAdd he takes 100% damage instead of 200% (D.D.)
Heck after taking a good look it seems like defencemulset is really crappy with everything.
Cyanide said, August 19, 2009, 03:43:45 am
There is a known bug with defencemulset that occured in the swap to winmugen. The multiplier does not take effect until the second hit in a combo. First hits will always deal full damage.

Damn defencemulset, never thought it would be such a treacherous feature, that bug is really annoying.
All my throws do only 100% damage just because of it. and all first hits also! THIS RUINS MY SCHEMES!!!
:fear:


:furious::hanged: :behead: :bigcry: :end: :furious3:


:wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall:


Hey Byakko, you were right!
Byakko said:
If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.
I hope Open Mugen and ShugenDo can salvage our works. however they've taken such a long time that seems forever...

... Thanks a lot for all your support guys...

Any Hopes?
Last Edit: August 19, 2009, 08:14:45 pm by _Josue_

Cyanide

Re: something troubling me for quite some times..
#22  August 19, 2009, 10:37:36 pm
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  • I am the eye of the storm to come!
    • New Zealand
    • network.mugenguild.com/cyanide/
Your other method is to give zero 500 life in easy mode. The activate defencemulset variable could set his life to 500 at the start. That will give the same effect as half defence. Might make the lifebar look a little odd though.


In M.U.G.E.N there is no magic button

They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance.

_Josue_

Re: something troubling me for quite some times..
#23  August 22, 2009, 07:24:24 am
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  • Freedom is the right of all sentient beings.
    • akkuis1173.me.pn/
Cyanide said, August 19, 2009, 10:37:36 pm
Your other method is to give zero 500 life in easy mode. The activate defencemulset variable could set his life to 500 at the start. That will give the same effect as half defence. Might make the lifebar look a little odd though.

Well guys, I think I came up with a solution for this problem...
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty
I do know it's an ugly hack, but it guarantees the previous hit needed to trigger the damned defencemulset is assured. So, at least all my throws will do correct damage to ALL characters...

@Cyanide, I looked at your site and found two naruto chars... that already were in a Naruto mugen I had downloaded... right now I'm triying your gotenks... I thought I was stuck in a custom state... but well you programmed him well, after some time I appeared...
EDIT
Also downloaded your Simba, He is so small that when he crouches I can't hit him! That monkey he calls up also gave me some surprises...
EDIT2
WTF is this abomination!!!

that thing is ugly as hell! where is it from?

BTW I just remembered about the Open Mugen and ShugenDo projects... how are they doing? I mean are they working well enough now to be used or still very buggy/unfinished?
Thanks in advance...
Last Edit: August 22, 2009, 08:42:31 am by _Josue_

Cyanide

Re: something troubling me for quite some times..
#24  August 22, 2009, 01:43:36 pm
  • ******
  • Legendary XIII
  • I am the eye of the storm to come!
    • New Zealand
    • network.mugenguild.com/cyanide/
If you're going to ask unrelated questions, feel free to PM me rather than bumping your topic over other peoples.

Gotenks and Simba are old. And that's Gig, he's from guiltygear Dust strikers for the DS, i made him as a collab with Oz (who owes me some sounds and has disappeared)

Openmugen => shugendo. Go read in the forum, sakir is relatively active.


In M.U.G.E.N there is no magic button

They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance.
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