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Windows 8 to support Xbox 360 games (Read 3119 times)

Started by SNT, July 05, 2011, 07:36:42 pm
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SNT

Windows 8 to support Xbox 360 games
#1  July 05, 2011, 07:36:42 pm
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Hibernating.

OZ

Re: Windows 8 to support Xbox 360 games
#2  July 05, 2011, 07:42:52 pm
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You need something to keep you warm at night?
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Re: Windows 8 to support Xbox 360 games
#3  July 05, 2011, 07:54:32 pm
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if thats right...it would be great sinc ei never bought a xb360 and there are only a handful games for it i would buy anyway.

But i guess when win8 is out, MS is already producing the next xbox :)

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Re: Windows 8 to support Xbox 360 games
#4  July 05, 2011, 08:17:19 pm
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Re: Windows 8 to support Xbox 360 games
#5  July 06, 2011, 02:26:47 pm
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if thats right...it would be great sinc ei never bought a xb360 and there are only a handful games for it i would buy anyway.

But i guess when win8 is out, MS is already producing the next xbox :)



Most likely this will be the reason, and alot of people already own an xbox, so it wouldnt be much. Along with that youd need good enough performance to run them
Re: Windows 8 to support Xbox 360 games
#6  July 06, 2011, 02:45:03 pm
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Re: Windows 8 to support Xbox 360 games
#7  July 06, 2011, 03:40:00 pm
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Yeah, a 360 is tailor made to play its games, so it'll be far cheaper to buy an xbox than to buy a desktop if all you want to do is play the games.

Well, prebuilt computers will be far more expensive anyway. Time will tell if it'll be cheaper to build one's own computer than buy a 360.



Also, yeah, new console generation on the horizon.

Pal

Re: Windows 8 to support Xbox 360 games
#8  July 06, 2011, 04:01:44 pm
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Well, if you plan on playing Xbox 360 games only then, indeed, it is cheaper to buy a 360. A PC may be expensive but it's worth every penny you invest in it.

I mean, you can play the PC exclusives but thanks to emulation you can enjoy every older console PLUS Gamecube, PS2, Wii, DS, PSP and now it appears that Xbox 360 will be added to the list.

Also
Piracy. Most people own a PC due to piracy being TOO EASY on it.
Re: Windows 8 to support Xbox 360 games
#9  July 06, 2011, 09:46:52 pm
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I assume this is something that is going to happen after the next X box console? And if thats the case then I guess it's just a nice feature but not a deal breaker. It would be awesome if PC's had like a built in PS2 emulator or something! (Sony sort it out!)  :sugoi:

I always shine!
Re: Windows 8 to support Xbox 360 games
#10  July 06, 2011, 10:38:42 pm
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pcxs2  runs the most ps2 games flawless already :P
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Re: Windows 8 to support Xbox 360 games
#11  July 06, 2011, 11:58:16 pm
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Sweet. THat is awesome.
Re: Windows 8 to support Xbox 360 games
#12  July 07, 2011, 12:41:55 am
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Well, if you plan on playing Xbox 360 games only then, indeed, it is cheaper to buy a 360. A PC may be expensive but it's worth every penny you invest in it.

I mean, you can play the PC exclusives but thanks to emulation you can enjoy every older console PLUS Gamecube, PS2, Wii, DS, PSP and now it appears that Xbox 360 will be added to the list.

Also
Piracy. Most people own a PC due to piracy being TOO EASY on it.

I agree.

pcxs2  runs the most ps2 games flawless already :P

Not so flawless, I would say.
Re: Windows 8 to support Xbox 360 games
#13  July 07, 2011, 12:43:27 am
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the most are running flawless

i tested around 400 and only like 30 of them didnt run or had big graphical errors
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Re: Windows 8 to support Xbox 360 games
#14  July 07, 2011, 01:15:20 am
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The comments in the topic are holy retarded (I mean in insideris, not here :P).

This is nice news. Does this mean X-Box live and Windows Live would be binded into only one "Microsoft Live" thing. As such, would playing an X-Box game on the PC allow to play against other X-Box players ?
Re: Windows 8 to support Xbox 360 games
#15  July 07, 2011, 01:31:20 am
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Does that mean Xbox360 games will get their cost reduced to match the same cost of a PC game? Because that would be the best thing in these news. Damn new games and their excessive big prizes >:(

And about pcxs2, not only graphical errors, but lots of lag is something you will experience a lot, unfortunately.

DMK

Re: Windows 8 to support Xbox 360 games
#16  July 07, 2011, 03:26:41 am
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I suppose this makes alot of sense as GFWL is officially mergeing with Xbox.com and I remember in a trailer about them becoming more "PC friendly" they were scrolling through games and one of which was Halo 3.
Re: Windows 8 to support Xbox 360 games
#17  July 07, 2011, 03:46:03 am
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I don't think this has been mentioned but ... by the time Win8 exists, Xbox 720 or whatever will be released, leaving 360 games in the shadows :P
"We live in a world of perpetual outrage"
Re: Windows 8 to support Xbox 360 games
#18  July 12, 2011, 08:56:50 am
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I WILL GET WINDOWS 8 TO PLAY DEATHSMILES.
Re: Windows 8 to support Xbox 360 games
#19  July 13, 2011, 03:39:17 am
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Mmm...

Easy pirati- wait...

(Shitty OS)

NO.

I can't create sigs for crap. At least its 500x187
Re: Windows 8 to support Xbox 360 games
#20  July 13, 2011, 04:09:18 am
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An excellent excuse to drop backwards compatibility on the next Xbox.
Re: Windows 8 to support Xbox 360 games
#21  July 13, 2011, 05:02:21 am
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GOH

Re: Windows 8 to support Xbox 360 games
#22  July 13, 2011, 11:23:09 am
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You did NOT just call Windows XP shitty. >:(
Re: Windows 8 to support Xbox 360 games
#23  July 13, 2011, 11:45:14 am
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xp is okay..win7 rules.
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Re: Windows 8 to support Xbox 360 games
#24  July 13, 2011, 12:01:22 pm
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Re: Windows 8 to support Xbox 360 games
#25  July 13, 2011, 12:05:56 pm
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Re: Windows 8 to support Xbox 360 games
#26  July 13, 2011, 05:38:38 pm
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what broken, it works great for me.
Re: Windows 8 to support Xbox 360 games
#27  July 15, 2011, 01:46:32 am
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I can't create sigs for crap. At least its 500x187
Re: Windows 8 to support Xbox 360 games
#28  July 22, 2011, 04:39:39 am
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(Shitty OS)
Windows ME & Vista say hi.

FIXED.
Fixed more

I use XP and 7 and I'm SOOO happy... besides...
xp is okay..win7 rules.

Enjoy your completely broken search files utlity.
Sometimes it goes nuts... but I always disable indexing service since is SOOO useless for me, I always know where I have my files and I have organized folders... I find Indexing Service just useless...

Anyway, going on topic, it seems that M$ is looking forward to limit piracy, W8 would include a new WGA for XB360 games, just like Office 2010 does (which is SOOO anoying for people like me who buys an original licence only to find that you need to buy it again if it fails for some misterious reason after a reinstall...)

They can do as much as they want, piracy will rule forever... or at least until 21/12/2012 XD

See ya!! :D
This is the era in which we will see reason triumphing against brutality... May be better to open your mind to the future.
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Re: Windows 8 to support Xbox 360 games
#29  July 22, 2011, 05:10:13 am
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Whelp.
Here's to hoping that Bootcamp will run this.

Why is Microsoft scrapping what windows was and replacing it with what Windows Phone 7 is.
WITH Xbox 360 game support.


Also I'm curious. How's XBLA, XBLIG or Xbox Live going to handle?
Re: Windows 8 to support Xbox 360 games
#30  July 22, 2011, 05:39:12 am
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(Shitty OS)
Windows ME & Vista say hi.

FIXED.
Fixed more

I use XP and 7 and I'm SOOO happy... besides...
xp is okay..win7 rules.

Enjoy your completely broken search files utlity.
Sometimes it goes nuts... but I always disable indexing service since is SOOO useless for me, I always know where I have my files and I have organized folders... I find Indexing Service just useless...

Anyway, going on topic, it seems that M$ is looking forward to limit piracy, W8 would include a new WGA for XB360 games, just like Office 2010 does (which is SOOO anoying for people like me who buys an original licence only to find that you need to buy it again if it fails for some misterious reason after a reinstall...)

They can do as much as they want, piracy will rule forever... or at least until 21/12/2012 XD

See ya!! :D

mirosoft has decent phone service; compared to toher phone support services in latin american ocuntries.
Re: Windows 8 to support Xbox 360 games
#31  July 22, 2011, 06:12:21 am
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Is there a guesstimation as to when this new OS may be out? I'm getting sick of using my nephew's 360 and I want to by high-end computer in the new future.
Re: Windows 8 to support Xbox 360 games
#32  July 29, 2011, 04:06:15 am
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W8 is meant to be released in 2012-2013... MS wants they 3 year expiration policy for OSes back... so your budget will suffer like in old times...

See ya!! :D
This is the era in which we will see reason triumphing against brutality... May be better to open your mind to the future.
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Current Universal War Official Artwork
Re: Windows 8 to support Xbox 360 games
#33  July 29, 2011, 04:34:18 am
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Windows XP is the best MS-OS. Vista sucks and Windows seven seems to be it's twin sister  o_O.
Vista is always asking you for confirmations on everything, lock you out of your folders, and always crash things.

But all of them fails in comparison to linux (if it would use more MS layouts and be compatable with windows programs).

I like certain things about Vista's design, but Windows 7 says that MS isn't planning on letting you get a lot of XP's designs anytime soon.  The whole reason I want a 360 is to pirate, and get PS3 games for ps3-only games, and if Windows 8 plays 360, then I'd wait till someone converts the programs for it into XP/Vista, and if they don't then I'll hope 360s go even farther down.
Well. most likely by 2012-2013, I'd have a 360 ready to hack, so it shouldn't really effect me then.

FerchogtX: How did you make that Captain Commando in your sig?

Pal

Re: Windows 8 to support Xbox 360 games
#34  July 29, 2011, 07:45:06 am
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Seven is like Vista.

You haven't used Seven right? I was skeptical at first, it seemed like an upgraded Vista. I decided to try it on my weak PC (Athlon 64 1,8 Single Core, 1GB Memory, GeForce 6200) and was amazed. It was faster than XP and never crashed or slowed down on me. I went back to XP because forcing DX11 in a GeForce 6200 is not a good idea, but that's a different story.
Re: Windows 8 to support Xbox 360 games
#35  July 29, 2011, 09:21:56 am
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I used it a little in my little cousins' mini laptops (they're like notebooks or 3/4 the size of normal laptops.)

Only thing I can say in W7's defense is that I didn't spend a really long time on them and that my cousins bug and break just about every computer they can get a hold of for a bit of time (and these computers actually were theirs as Christmas gifts).

But out of that defense, I still stick to my opinion on it  --;.
Re: Windows 8 to support Xbox 360 games
#36  July 29, 2011, 02:49:47 pm
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Windows 7 is just too mainstream isn't it?
Re: Windows 8 to support Xbox 360 games
#37  July 29, 2011, 03:15:33 pm
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Windows 7 is the best OS Microsoft has made, using Windows XP after it just feels wrong.
Re: Windows 8 to support Xbox 360 games
#38  July 29, 2011, 03:32:24 pm
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^ That.
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Inside his hand
Re: Windows 8 to support Xbox 360 games
#39  July 29, 2011, 03:53:55 pm
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You should use xp only if your computer is really shitty .
Re: Windows 8 to support Xbox 360 games
#40  July 29, 2011, 03:57:20 pm
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im happy here with my win7 64bits ultimate

GOH

Re: Windows 8 to support Xbox 360 games
#41  July 29, 2011, 03:57:51 pm
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I used to have Vista and then I installed XP. But I don't see the need (atleast for me) to remove it and install 7.

Atleast for now. So far been pretty much satisfied with XP.
Re: Windows 8 to support Xbox 360 games
#42  July 29, 2011, 05:07:55 pm
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windows 7 is pretty good, it's quite a step upward from windows xp. vista was very meh.
Re: Windows 8 to support Xbox 360 games
#43  July 29, 2011, 05:37:42 pm
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the only shitty things in windows seven are the new mspaint and the filesearch engine that got completely and utterly fucked up.
Re: Windows 8 to support Xbox 360 games
#44  July 31, 2011, 10:00:12 pm
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I keep hearing this but I haven't had any problems with the search function. What's wrong with it if you don't mind my asking?
Re: Windows 8 to support Xbox 360 games
#45  August 02, 2011, 02:08:35 am
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Search function it's not that broken... it's just that MS didsn't release a reliable patch so the Indexing Service wouldn't be a resource hog, also for actually indexing the correct files and using your custom settings as it should... most people has to rebuild the Indexing cache because the get weird results from time to time, or even getting errors... that's why I personally disable that, I NEVER use it and since I organize my shit pretty well, I'll almost likely NEVER use it...

FerchogtX: How did you make that Captain Commando in your sig?
Hehe... quite simple, I just took a sprite from him, vectorized, added details and recolored... ttok me 2 days, but looks good, I used Photoshop CS3

You should use xp only if your computer is really shitty .

Even shitty PC's can run 7 just fine, I've instaled that OS on a 1.5 Ghz CPU (Single Core)... VIA if I recall correctly, 1 GB RAM and onboard VGA (VIA Also, no WDDM), and goes pretty good... yes, no Aero, but runs decently, it's just matter of knowing which services to tweak without compromising OS stability.

See ya!! :D
This is the era in which we will see reason triumphing against brutality... May be better to open your mind to the future.
------------------------------------------------------
<- [Clicky - Clicky]
Current Universal War Official Artwork
Re: Windows 8 to support Xbox 360 games
#46  August 02, 2011, 06:38:04 pm
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I keep hearing this but I haven't had any problems with the search function. What's wrong with it if you don't mind my asking?

The indexing doesnt work properly, not searching correctly for wildcards all the time nor file content. In the old search type it would allow you to search the content of files and everything.

its pretty bad when you have old folders on external disks or whatever and need to seek out something.
Re: Windows 8 to support Xbox 360 games
#47  August 07, 2011, 11:53:33 am
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My computer starting pausing because of bad system files and no disk to repair it, so I decided to not reinstall XP for the third time and give Windows 7 a shot. I got (ultimate) started up, then went through the task of removing file security that blocks me from my files, played Chess Titans, downloaded all the updates and restarted my computer to complete all this stuff. I go set up some of my folder links and make a few preference changes, I'm not really liking some stuff a bit due to the transition, but otherwise I'm really liking it  :).


Now I'm having trouble with my sound (which was installed properly) so I uninstall it and it reinstalls itself, then I try to install the drivers from the sound card manufacturer, but it fails to install (only in 7, not in xp ever). I just say forget about it and go install my old programs, then in the quietness, I hear some noise from my speakers. Apparently my sound was working but it was just too low  ::).
I increase the sound and play some of my music and I turn the volume up to the max, but it's still too low. I remember that XP had special sound settings that can be increased to increase the volume aside from the main sound settings. After going all over the sound and sound settings, this isn't in W7 and the only solutions are to (slightly) increase the volume by enabling loudness equalizer or buying louder speakers  --;. My speaker is actually suppose to go on a stereo or karaoke or something and it doesn't have a sound nob, so I say whatever, I needed to update anyway so forget it -_-.

Ok, I got most of my programs installed, moved around some old files and settings, blah blah blah got it mostly to my preference again, so I go to DA and look at some pictures, and remembered that I don't like Windows 7's overcomplicated paint. Paint is great because it doesn't take any time to start up, it doesn't take a lot of cpu usage, and it doesn't have a bunch of extra options that aren't even needed, or basically, it's simple.  Window's 7's paint had too many buttons and is pretty much nothing like what paint is suppose to be, I say if you want a bunch of features in a paint program then go get Photoshop or Gimp.
Easy fix was to find something called Old paint for Windows7, it simply replaced Windows7 paint with a Windows XP paint with 3 (instead of 1) undo options.

Now I'm looking through my pictures with windows picture viewer, and I notice my gifs aren't playing. Apparently Microsoft removed function for animated GIFs due to some copyright issue with the creators of gif. The only solution for this is to either open every single animated gif you want to play inside Internet Explorer(or another web browser) or get a third party program like XNView (I like the program, just I don't want to have to load this kinda thing up everytime I want to see something animated other than .pngs) or Irfanview (which sucks).


So now that I experienced Windows 7, I stick to what I said, except now, Windows seven is the slightly better looking twin sister of Vista  :P. This OS better not break down on me, one time would be plenty reason to shatter the disc into the wall and get back to XP  >:(.

To all that are on XP and are thinking about going to Windows 7:
If you didn't like Vista or (unlike those that actually do) you actually do things on your pc and not just spend all your time on youtube and facebook, and your OS isn't damaged at all (or you can fix or replace it), then
Don't get Windows 7(or Vista)

These are just some problems I've had so far. There isn't anything I haven't seen already or ever will see that only Window7 has that would completely compensate for these losses, and those perks of Window7 don't compete with actual programs (which are the only reasons to even have a pc), but I'm just going to go and try to deal with these problems and continue on with what I was doing. Hopefully I won't be finding a bunch of other problems and that the OS doesn't start failing just like XP and Vista both did on every other pc I've seen (because they always work well in the first few days and weeks, but sooner or later they always crashed  --;).
Re: Windows 8 to support Xbox 360 games
#48  August 07, 2011, 12:06:00 pm
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Some games also need twice the RAM they would use in XP :stare:

What about DirectX11? Is it useful or something? It's practically the only reason I would move to Seven.

LOL @ the gif problems! I guess I'll stick to XP then, thanks for the resume.
pls
Re: Windows 8 to support Xbox 360 games
#49  August 07, 2011, 12:15:24 pm
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I wouldn't know about DirectX 11, so couldn't tell you.

I just finished my gif search, and there is a (user-made) solution to it. http://www.sevenforums.com/music-pictures-video/97830-windows-7-gif-viewer-works-perfectly.html#post845140 there's a program that creates something called Windows 7 gif viewer, and so far it seems to be pretty much the same as Windows Pictures and Fax viewer (the gifs are looking a bit slow, but that's probably because of me or the actualy image so  :P)

So far I had to search for replacements for the gif thing and the mspaint thing (from here if you're interested) I don't know what else is gone (that I care about) but I say if XP is working, then stick with it.
Re: Windows 8 to support Xbox 360 games
#50  August 07, 2011, 12:48:42 pm
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While I was on the W7 beta the gif thing GOT ON MY F&*&^* NERVES like you wouldn't believe. Other than that I never experienced anything worse than that in any of my W7 usage.

The biggest draw for me was the snap feature, I'm ashamed to admit. It just made everything so much easier as I typically do my work in half sized windows and resize windows constantly for multitasking. Would have been a Godsend while I was in school.
Re: Windows 8 to support Xbox 360 games
#51  August 07, 2011, 12:56:57 pm
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Yeah I know, I love it too  :), though it's just an improvement that linux already had. Next to that would be tabs inside the explorer windows, like browsers have.

Another like for W7 is the open file location for programs in the task manager.
Re: Windows 8 to support Xbox 360 games
#52  August 07, 2011, 07:38:52 pm
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tl; dr, but why would you use the programs bundled with windows yet take an anti microsoft stance ?

Pal

Re: Windows 8 to support Xbox 360 games
#53  August 07, 2011, 07:50:57 pm
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Stuff

So, we shouldn't upgrade to a superior version of a popular OS because its default image viewer can't play animated GIFs?

I dunno what your problem was with your sound card but my computer from 2001 had an on-board sound card and I got it working on 7 flawlessly.

Some games also need twice the RAM they would use in XP :stare:

What about DirectX11? Is it useful or something? It's practically the only reason I would move to Seven.

LOL @ the gif problems! I guess I'll stick to XP then, thanks for the resume.

Do you have a good graphics card? DirectX 11 is the right for you. Double RAM needed for games is because of all the nifty Aero, gadgets and other settings that have been around since Vista, just disable them and RAM requirements will still be the same old like in XP.
Re: Windows 8 to support Xbox 360 games
#54  August 07, 2011, 07:55:50 pm
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NVIDIA 9800 GTX+. I still don't want to move to Seven because my PC probably wont handle it very well. ¡'d rather upgrade my whole specs first, after all I do need a new HDD if I wanna use this OS anyway, I wont format my current one and lose everything D: .

It kind of bothers me to have to disable Aero but yeah, that's one of the solutions I had in mind for a long time.
pls
Re: Windows 8 to support Xbox 360 games
#55  August 08, 2011, 04:43:27 am
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Because adding some useful features to something doesn't make removing other useful features okay.

I say to never update from XP to 7 unless you don't do a variety of things on your pc or your current system is bad.

Rednavi, you don't have to format. That thing about not being able to install Window7 without formatting is if you're trying to upgrade your OS. If you install Windows 7 while you still have XP, then it will just install a second startup option for Windows 7 and instead of building it in "Windows" folder, it will install in like "Windows.0".
But that's just my experience from installing in Vista, and when I did that, I had to manually change the startup options, because otherwise it'd just boot to Vista without any option for XP.

Pal

Re: Windows 8 to support Xbox 360 games
#56  August 08, 2011, 04:55:39 am
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Re: Windows 8 to support Xbox 360 games
#57  August 08, 2011, 05:04:56 am
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Nah.... I booted from Ubuntu and moved all my old OS files to a new folder, then installed Window7 (first time there was an error because of hardware, second time worked).

I moved them because I wanted the insurance of being able to go back to my old OS without having to reinstall just because something new would suck -_-. Too late for that now though, because I deleted my two Windows partitions because they were taking too much extra space.

Formatting a pc is only for people that don't download or actually feel like storing their files somewhere else (and I pretty much max all four of my 232GB hard drives and no, I don't have money for new hard drives)

Registries and everything else don't get sent to the specific "Windows" folder, they're sent to the "[system]" directory, which is normally "Windows", which means you don't keep any of your old settings unless you manually move them to your new system directory.
Re: Windows 8 to support Xbox 360 games
#58  August 08, 2011, 05:51:21 am
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It's still a horrible idea; also I think it's cute we have these type of users discussing it wih people who do/used to to this for a living, but I don't really mind, your computer experience is not under my charge nor is anybody else from guild, otherwise I would already have forced you to install 7 unless I decided you are a lousy worker who does not deserve a pc decent enough to run it and got you stuck with xp.
Re: Windows 8 to support Xbox 360 games
#59  August 08, 2011, 06:10:38 am
  • ****
  • ................
    • Edtion.TK
How could you possibly use Windows 7 for a living, when it's less than 3 years old and didn't do anything too useful that XP and Linux didn't already do o_O?
Re: Windows 8 to support Xbox 360 games
#60  August 08, 2011, 06:17:34 am
  • ******
  • Complicated.cns
  • No, I've never played a Zelda game before, shut up
    • Argentina
psss! hey! come closer!...

he's talking about computer knowledge, you know, programmers, coders, etc...
pls
Re: Windows 8 to support Xbox 360 games
#61  August 08, 2011, 06:45:24 am
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  • ................
    • Edtion.TK
So he's saying he's a computer service technician for a career?
And did you mean psst or psss (which kinda sounds like your were actually trying to say piss for some reason  ::))?
Re: Windows 8 to support Xbox 360 games
#62  August 08, 2011, 07:01:58 am
  • ******
  • Complicated.cns
  • No, I've never played a Zelda game before, shut up
    • Argentina
I made a terrible mistake, I deserve to die. [size=2pt]We don't use the "t" at the end in my country[/size]
pls
Re: Windows 8 to support Xbox 360 games
#63  August 08, 2011, 07:06:23 am
  • ****
  • ................
    • Edtion.TK
I made a terrible mistake, I deserve to die. [size=4pt]We don't use the "t" at the end in my country[/size]
I HATE when you people use size 2. Use size 4-6 if you actually want someone to ever read it  --;.

Umm..... that's sarcasm right? (first and second part, or just second?)
Re: Windows 8 to support Xbox 360 games
#64  August 08, 2011, 07:10:28 am
  • ******
  • Complicated.cns
  • No, I've never played a Zelda game before, shut up
    • Argentina
1) I didn't want you to read that.

2) It wasn't sarcasm, in fact I'm in a cliff right now and I'm about to jump, good bye mugen guiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiild!!!

3) Oh yeah, while I'm falling, [E] knows what he's talking about...
pls
Re: Windows 8 to support Xbox 360 games
#65  August 08, 2011, 07:27:29 am
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  • ................
    • Edtion.TK
What/Who is [E]?
Until you say one or both of that was sarcasm, I'm going to try to play along <_<.

Yes, you made a mistake, no you shouldn't die......yet.
Grab onto something to slow your fall before you hit the ground and splatter  o_O!!!
Re: Windows 8 to support Xbox 360 games
#66  August 08, 2011, 05:03:57 pm
  • ******
  • [E]
    • Mexico
So he's saying he's a computer service technician for a career?
And did you mean psst or psss (which kinda sounds like your were actually trying to say piss for some reason  ::))?

you know, technician is insulting, so I will just leave this topic die.