The Mugen Fighters Guild

Off-Topic => All That's Left => Topic started by: Ricepigeon on April 10, 2012, 10:21:51 pm

Title: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: Ricepigeon on April 10, 2012, 10:21:51 pm
Source: http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/47005090/ns/today-style/?ocid=todmsnbc11

Way to turn it into a sausage fest.
Title: Re: Chicks with dicks now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: Mog on April 10, 2012, 10:24:58 pm
And what country will YOU represent?

:bow:
Title: Re: Chicks with dicks now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: Cobra Caddie on April 10, 2012, 10:29:33 pm
She's post op though. She does not have a dick so she can't be making it a sausage fest.

Your post and thread title is misleading.
Title: Re: Chicks with dicks now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: Bastard Wolf on April 10, 2012, 10:34:00 pm
i came here expecting chicks with dicks and got this?

op is a we are dumb fucks spamming this site for ten years
Title: Re: Chicks with dicks now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: Mog on April 10, 2012, 10:38:48 pm
Who even watches Miss Universe anyway?  Besides the op that is.

:bow:
Title: Re: Chicks with dicks now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: Ricepigeon on April 11, 2012, 03:31:05 am
Who said anything about me watching the pageant in the first place? This just gave me one more reason to laugh at it.
Title: Re: Chicks with dicks now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: Cobra Caddie on April 11, 2012, 03:58:05 am
Do you laugh every time an organization has to have their arm twisted to do the morally right thing?

Tell us, what is your position on transgendered people in general?
Title: Re: Chicks with dicks now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: Jmorphman on April 11, 2012, 05:12:08 am
Tell us, what is your position on transgendered people in general?
Well, just look at the topic title. It doesn't paint a very pretty picture.
Title: Re: Chicks with dicks now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: Veolf on April 11, 2012, 05:29:22 am
Well, that occurrence was a positive one. However, the OP really need to post it in a way that is not discriminatory to possible transgendered people ._."

I don't mind seeing those types of people in Miss Universe Pageant, seamlessly I see no harm in doing so in the first place =.="

Anyways, it is quite a good show if you enjoy watching pageants, but I don't watch TV that much because I don't have enough channels +_+
Title: Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: Ricepigeon on April 11, 2012, 05:35:45 am
Tell us, what is your position on transgendered people in general?
Well, just look at the topic title. It doesn't paint a very pretty picture.
It was the first thing that came to mind that I thought implied the message, but if people are going to get their panties in a bunch over it then fine, I'll suck up to your demands.
Title: Re: Chicks with dicks now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: Rajaa Retired on April 11, 2012, 05:40:02 am
It's not about getting panties in bunches, it's about you not knowing what you're posting about and using childish antics to display your ignorance.

"Chicks with dicks" is such a stupid fucking phrase and many people don't understand the facts behind transsexualism, transgenderism and even intersex.
Title: Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: Cobra Caddie on April 11, 2012, 05:45:53 am
It was the first thing that came to mind that I thought implied the message, but if people are going to get their panties in a bunch over it then fine, I'll suck up to your demands.

That doesn't really answer the question. Changing the title to "bow to pressure" doesn't change anything about your viewpoint, and that plus leaving your comments about the "sausage fest" and "gives me something to laugh at" doesn't make your posts in this thread any less insulting.

So why not get it out in the open and let me and the other people on this forum, including it's transgendered readers, know what is your opinion of these people that you mock and laugh at?
Title: Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: ExShadow on April 11, 2012, 05:57:58 am
I'm assuming Caddie and Rajaa are transgendered   ;D
Title: Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: Cobra Caddie on April 11, 2012, 06:02:26 am
Hilarious. By the way I noticed something while reading your post.
Title: Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: Jmorphman on April 11, 2012, 06:12:25 am
It was the first thing that came to mind that I thought implied the message, but if people are going to get their panties in a bunch over it then fine, I'll suck up to your demands.
Nobody is getting their panties in a bunch over this. :megaeyes:
Title: Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: DoubleDandE on April 11, 2012, 09:11:31 am
Times seem to be changing. Twenty years ago, this person wouldn't be able to compete in the Miss Universe competition at all because they were born male and then became a woman. People who change there sex do it for reasons for their own, and that's a very complicated reason only they would know.   It's a very complicated situation for those hosting, as well as those competing, and even the person themselves, as this paticular person will be facing prejudace now that she has come out in the open; from press, people, those who watch the pageants, judges, and even the fellow competing women.
It's something that has become a part of everyone's life, even if you agree with it or not. I use to have a good friend who could be classified as transgender, and people used to make fun of them behind their back. As for me, I didn't because I respected them and they were my friend.
But overall, this probably won't be the end of it in the news either, as there are more things yet to come as I'm sure of it.
Until then, Good luck and Good night.
Title: Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: K.O.D on April 11, 2012, 10:06:30 am
(http://digitaljournal.com/img/8/7/8/i/1/0/9/o/Jenna_Talackova.jpg)

would
Title: Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: Mog on April 11, 2012, 11:36:28 am
It was the first thing that came to mind that I thought implied the message, but if people are going to get their panties in a bunch over it then fine, I'll suck up to your demands.
Nobody is getting their panties in a bunch over this. :megaeyes:

I might, I kinda like having bunched panties.

:bow:
Title: Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: Mgbenz on April 11, 2012, 11:41:18 am
Where's Bia when you need her?
Title: Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: Valodim on April 11, 2012, 12:04:12 pm
So why not get it out in the open and let me and the other people on this forum, including it's transgendered readers, know what is your opinion of these people that you mock and laugh at?

he obviously has none because he never thought about it. don't push the issue :P

and I can't help but chuckle a little when I think that this born dude might win Miss Universe against all those women. must be a punch in the face for them :lugoi:
Title: Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: kakkoii superhero on April 11, 2012, 12:09:44 pm
they're allowed to compete, doesn't mean they will instantly win, it is like competing in a motocross race with a modified roadbike

not being happy and accept what they're born with is a big minus is contest that involve personality.
Title: Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: SNT on April 11, 2012, 12:15:48 pm
I think that is a horrible analogy supported by disgustingly bigoted reasoning.
Title: Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: kakkoii superhero on April 11, 2012, 12:26:02 pm
another possibility, if the winner would be decided by votes then she will be supported by the whole gays/ lesbians, transgenders people allover the world, she might win actually if that happens but that is not because she deserves it,  but because of she is manipulating her status into her unfair advantage.
Title: Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: SNT on April 11, 2012, 12:33:53 pm
Quote
if the winner would be decided by votes
Nope.
Title: Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: K.O.D on April 11, 2012, 12:38:24 pm
i'd vote the hell out of her if you know what i mean :smug:
Title: Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: Bea on April 11, 2012, 01:01:08 pm
Where's Bia when you need her?

I've been to low on energy to deal with bigots, so I have spending my time with other, more positive things.

On topic, it's good that they're allowing her to compete. She's quite pretty.
Title: Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: TempesT on April 11, 2012, 01:03:04 pm
If she wins: PROGRESSION IN AMERICA
If she loses: OPPRESSION IN AMERICA


Title: Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: Mog on April 11, 2012, 01:09:40 pm
and I can't help but chuckle a little when I think that this born dude might win Miss Universe against all those women. must be a punch in the face for them :lugoi:

Why?  A woman is a woman is a woman.  Women alter their bodies all the time to fit societies ideal of beauty.  Nose straightened, boobs bigger, that kind of thing.

:bow:
Title: Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: Rajaa Retired on April 11, 2012, 01:29:48 pm
Remember, folks, gender is socially constructed and sex is biological.

Women only wear dresses, makeup, and keep their hair long because they're taught that that's what femininity is. If femininity and masculinity weren't concepts with different conceptions throughout the world, then we wouldn't have these distinctions of how someone is supposed to behave or dress because of what sex they are.

Also, some transgender people who feel like they're in the wrong body probably wouldn't feel that way if gender roles and expectations were switched or were completely different. If females were supposed to wear nails in their heads and put centipedes in their anuses, who would feel like they're in the wrong body? Probably everyone who society DEEMED as a female.

The gender that transgender people want to be is not natural, but their desire to be that gender IS natural, which is a good enough reason for it NOT to be a problem. Unfortunately, it is a problem for some people because some people are stupid. It annoys me when idiot "scientists" try to call it a disorder. It's not a disorder, it's an issue, but it's not a disorder.

The disorder lies in the confined society where gender roles are tied to one sex each. That makes people who want to do both or one gender things develop envy, sometimes at very young ages, because society prosecutes them for doing what they want to do.

And the intersexual people have their genitals arbitrary mutilated so they can fit into the closed-minded system of only two genders. It's a huge issue that, according to historians, didn't used to be a problem in the very, very distant past.
Title: Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: OZ on April 11, 2012, 04:11:58 pm
put centipedes in their anuses

thank you for this image
i mean it, thank you
Title: Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: kakkoii superhero on April 11, 2012, 04:22:14 pm
Quote
if the winner would be decided by votes
Nope.
OH SHIT... thought the 1 word reply would be so cool
Quote
“Miss Universe” voting is open to people located in the home countries of the 2011 “Miss Universe” contestants. A list of countries is available here http://www.missuniverse.com/members/contestants Internet voting will be open to people sixteen [16] years of age or older. Void where prohibited.

Internet voting will be available on the following dates and times:

August 19, 2011 at 4 p.m. ET through Sunday, September 11, 2011 at 6 p.m. ET.

Participants will be limited to ten (10) votes per email address per day. The sole means of voting is via the internet. The Producer reserves the right to change the limit on the number of votes that may be made from each originating email address, in the Producer’s sole discretion.
Title: Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: The Railgunner on April 11, 2012, 04:41:33 pm
another possibility, if the winner would be decided by votes then she will be supported by the whole gays/ lesbians, transgenders people allover the world, she might win actually if that happens but that is not because she deserves it,  but because of she is manipulating her status into her unfair advantage.

...

No. In more ways than one:

1: A beauty pageant is all about attempting to subtly manipulate the judges into giving you high scores, be it with talent, personality, or good looks.

2: Even if a TG contestant DID get votes from gay/TG viewers in such a scenario, both groups are still a small minority as far as sexual preferences go.

And finally: you are being a bigot. Stop that shit.
Title: Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: Rajaa Retired on April 11, 2012, 04:59:58 pm
put centipedes in their anuses

thank you for this image
i mean it, thank you

I don't know why I used that as an example. =p

both groups are still a small minority as far as sexual preferences go.

Transgender and sexual orientation are two completely different things. Sorry.
Title: Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: The Railgunner on April 11, 2012, 05:53:14 pm
put centipedes in their anuses

thank you for this image
i mean it, thank you

I don't know why I used that as an example. =p

both groups are still a small minority as far as sexual preferences go.

Transgender and sexual orientation are two completely different things. Sorry.

...

both groups are still small minorities at any rate.

There, is that more PC for you? The point doesn't change at all regardless.
Title: Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: Rajaa Retired on April 11, 2012, 06:01:09 pm
But you brought gay people into this when this topic is about transgender people. You obviously incorrectly lump then into the same category. I know what the point of your post is. But that doesn't change my point.

I don't know what you mean by "is that more PC for you." but it sounds pretty stupid.
Title: Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: Bastard Mami on April 11, 2012, 06:12:40 pm
But you brought gay people into this when this topic is about transgender people. You obviously incorrectly lump then into the same category.


not really, LBGT is a common term.
Title: Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: Rajaa Retired on April 11, 2012, 06:15:32 pm
There are people whose words would physically disintegrate you for using that term in association with themselves.

They're lumped into the same category, but are not the same thing. If transgender women are allowed into the pageant, that doesn't mean gay men are allowed in.
Title: Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: Bastard Mami on April 11, 2012, 06:26:21 pm
that's compeltely not what he meants; and lol at being disintegrated by words.

[EDIT]
peopel give more importance to being politically correct than being factually correct.
Title: Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: Rajaa Retired on April 11, 2012, 06:32:14 pm
I know what he meant, he meant that gay people and transgender people are the minority viewers of the pageant and that their votes wouldn't matter. I was just telling him that they're not the same thing because he said gay/transgender which implies interchangeability.

However, reading back, I completely skimmed over Navetsea's post, and my post should actually be toward him. So, in that case, I am sorry, Vegeta.
 
Please ignore my posts Navetsea, since I don't like arguing with you.

[EDIT]
peopel give more importance to being politically correct than being factually correct.
Yeah, you're right. People often do that. Sometimes those skewed facts create more confusion about a group of people than it does in helping them.
Title: Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: Bastard Mami on April 11, 2012, 06:41:04 pm
I am a little bit sensitive over this because we have elections in my counrty and one of the candidates is a woman; she is horribly underqualified to be a president (she has never gained an election before, is incompetent and corrupt) but people are considering voting for her because she is the politically correct candidate to vote for.
Title: Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: Rajaa Retired on April 11, 2012, 06:52:25 pm
That's what some people say happened during the Obama election. They say, "[Some people are so filled with the idea of being politically correct, SO they don't make the 'best choice.']" That is, of course, under the condition that the "best choice" is not subjective.

Title: Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: The Railgunner on April 11, 2012, 07:29:21 pm
But you brought gay people into this when this topic is about transgender people. You obviously incorrectly lump then into the same category. I know what the point of your post is. But that doesn't change my point.

I don't know what you mean by "is that more PC for you." but it sounds pretty stupid.

Actually, Sir did that. I was making a point based off his assumption that gay people and transgendered people would vote in favor of a transgendered contestant. Now, does that change your point, knowing that I was making a point based off of an incorrect point made by Sir?
Title: Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: Rajaa Retired on April 11, 2012, 07:48:06 pm
I already addressed that.
Title: Re: Chicks with dicks now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: Ricepigeon on April 11, 2012, 08:53:26 pm
It's not about getting panties in bunches, it's about you not knowing what you're posting about and using childish antics to display your ignorance.

"Chicks with dicks" is such a stupid fucking phrase and many people don't understand the facts behind transsexualism, transgenderism and even intersex.

So why not get it out in the open and let me and the other people on this forum, including it's transgendered readers, know what is your opinion of these people that you mock and laugh at?

he obviously has none because he never thought about it. don't push the issue :P

I should have seen this coming. I tried to stay neutral here but I guess I couldn't help but bring the flak on myself. Lets just say that I had a traumatic experience during my early years which more or less shaped my views on transgenderism and leave it at that, since I'm not one to talk about my personal life nor am I going to allow myself to be mocked because of it. Then again, such is to be expected here when some of the staff see mental disabilities as a joke (http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=112183.msg1501412#msg1501412) (yes I'm aware of the context of that post but that's besides the point. I could start an argument about how they're in no position to call me out about my views of transgenders but I won't go there.)

Hopefully that third sentence will answer Caddie's question without making it look like I'm dodging the question (pun not intended). Then again the damage to my reputation here is already done, nothing I can do about that now.
Title: Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: Rajaa Retired on April 11, 2012, 09:01:12 pm
I don't think your reputation is damaged from anything in this thread.

I don't know what kind of traumatic experience you could have had that made you laugh at people because they're transgender. And I can't think of any traumatic experience that would justify said laughter, either.
Title: Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: Ricepigeon on April 11, 2012, 09:15:21 pm
I don't think your reputation is damaged from anything in this thread.

I don't know what kind of traumatic experience you could have had that made you laugh at people because they're transgender. And I can't think of any traumatic experience that would justify said laughter, either.

I never said I laughed at them, but it's not my intention to offend them either. As far as the experience is concerned, I won't go into too much detail, but it's enough to make it difficult for me to stay neutral when talking about it.
Title: Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: Iced on April 11, 2012, 09:28:13 pm
Yep, me making fun at the internet brand of autism is the same as mocking the trangendered.

You should really just have limited to saying that a traumatic experience that you dont want to go much into had made you hold an unfair bias towards trangendered persons, it wouldnt explain it but it would be weird enough that most people wouldnt question it.
Title: Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: Mog on April 11, 2012, 09:34:58 pm
You guys mock everyone from Americans to christians to women to zebras.  With good reason I'm sure.

:bow:
Title: Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: Bastard Mami on April 11, 2012, 09:36:46 pm
We never mock bearded truckers.
Title: Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: Iced on April 11, 2012, 09:50:56 pm
only women that pose with ducklips. they deserve it
Title: Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: OZ on April 11, 2012, 09:53:34 pm
You guys mock everyone from Americans to christians to women to zebras.  With good reason I'm sure.

:bow:

we are very tolerant of, and sensitive to the feelings of our zebra users

your accusations are unfounded sir
Title: Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: Bastard Mami on April 11, 2012, 09:55:04 pm
only women that pose with ducklips. they deserve it
I tought we agreed on not talking about tsukasa if she was not present  >:(
Title: Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: Jmorphman on April 11, 2012, 10:38:42 pm
I don't know why I used that as an example. =p
Been watching Human Centipede, I see.
Title: Re: Chicks with dicks now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: Jango on April 11, 2012, 11:09:37 pm
I had a longer more elaborate post written out with Phoenix Wright sprites, complete with Navetsea as a prosecuting attorney, and Jmorphman telling me I'm the sexiest man alive, but my browser crashed and I'm too lazy to reconstruct it so we're just gonna have to settle with the short version with the only sprite I still had on my clipboard:

I never said I laughed at them

This just gave me one more reason to laugh at it.

(http://www.imgur.com/qUh6Z.jpg)
Title: Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: Bastard Mami on April 11, 2012, 11:16:17 pm
he has reasons to laugh, but he has yet to laugh at them.
Title: Re: Chicks with dicks now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: Jmorphman on April 11, 2012, 11:16:22 pm
and Jmorphman telling me I'm the sexiest man alive, but my browser crashed and I'm too lazy to reconstruct
YOU RECONSTRUCT IT RIGHT NOW >:[
Title: Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: Duos.act on April 11, 2012, 11:19:02 pm
He clearly said laughing at the pageant, not TG people.  Context is important when quoting people.
Title: Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: Rajaa Retired on April 11, 2012, 11:20:57 pm
He said allowing transgender people in the pageant gave him a reason to laugh.

Context is important when white knighting people.

Been watching Human Centipede, I see.
Yes. Recently. But I still don't know why I used that as an example. =p
Title: Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: Duos.act on April 11, 2012, 11:24:12 pm
If I wanted to white knight him, I'd try to justify him disliking transgendered people, which I'm not.

If you're going to come down on him, do so because he laughed at the pageant for having TG people, which came out of his own mouth.  Do not do so for a fabricated twist of his words.
Title: Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: Rajaa Retired on April 11, 2012, 11:31:23 pm
What are you talking about? You keep trying to be so self-righteous. Why don't you just shut up for once? Nobody twisted his words.

Him laughing at the pageant for accepting transgender people is minutely, if at all, different than just laughing at transgender people. Stop playing this stupid semantics game when it doesn't apply.
Title: Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: Jango on April 11, 2012, 11:44:00 pm
Rajaaboy Tell 'Em
Title: Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: Chronan on April 12, 2012, 12:56:47 am
What are you talking about? You keep trying to be so self-righteous. Why don't you just shut up for once? Nobody twisted his words.
That's not true, Caddie started it earlier, and others continued albeit in a more or less subtle manner. Maybe not by twisting his words per say but putting words in his mouth and insinuating a disdain of transgendered people. Whether it actually be the case, or whether the joke itself is funny or tasteful, "chicks with dicks" is a joke that I remember going way back in the early 90s (and so are these pageants). Sure it's a joke phrase that can be used in a very negative and demeaning context by someone who actually hates transgendered people, but the same goes for Chapelle Show back in the day, which was a funny show some of the time despite it being horribly racist.

People tried to crucify him here anyway because of the original shitty thread title though, despite his compliance to change it, apologize, and do so in a very cool manner. Also there's plenty of other people pushing their self-righteous opinions in this thread. :)
Title: Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: Jmorphman on April 12, 2012, 01:00:34 am
but the same goes for Chapelle Show back in the day, which was a funny show some of the time despite it being horribly racist.
Uhh... what?
Title: Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: TTTTTsd on April 12, 2012, 01:24:57 am
I think this is a really nice step and it's pretty awesome that people pushed for this to happen. Maybe one day pure equality will exist? Hopefully, probably not when we're around though.
Title: Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: Cobra Caddie on April 12, 2012, 01:30:34 am
That's not true, Caddie started it earlier, and others continued albeit in a more or less subtle manner. Maybe not by twisting his words per say but putting words in his mouth and insinuating a disdain of transgendered people. Whether it actually be the case, or whether the joke itself is funny or tasteful, "chicks with dicks" is a joke that I remember going way back in the early 90s (and so are these pageants). Sure it's a joke phrase that can be used in a very negative and demeaning context by someone who actually hates transgendered people, but the same goes for Chapelle Show back in the day, which was a funny show some of the time despite it being horribly racist.

People tried to crucify him here anyway because of the original shitty thread title though, despite his compliance to change it, apologize, and do so in a very cool manner. Also there's plenty of other people pushing their self-righteous opinions in this thread. :)

What the hell? Where did I ever in this thread twist anybodies words? Those were all his words. He was the one who mocked a post-op transgendered person in a thread he started. He called the pageant a "sausage fest" now and said that he laughs at the contest because of this, and then later in the thread said that he DOES have a view on transsexuality shaped by a traumatic experience. It wasn't just because of the thread title either, he didn't apologize for it and instead said he was "sucking up to demands".

I don't think it's a good idea to start a thread that's whole messaged appeared to be "haha this is sick look at what these people let into their pageant what a joke let's laugh at them". Though to be honest I don't really like any thread which basically is just a slanted topic title and a link to a news story. RicePigeon I'm not nor would I ever mock you for having a traumatic experience in your past, nor do I blame you for having a certain viewpoint based on that experience. But I wasn't gonna sit by and see someone being mocked for these non-harmful life decisions, not when I'm friends with several transgendered people myself who have been great friends to me. I know they see things like this and it effects them. What is supposed to be something that is a huge step in progression and acceptance being tainted by people saying it's a bad decision or a step in the wrong direction and mocking them and saying hateful things about them.

Btw I also think that no one's reputation is tainted by this. What I think it would take to taint your reputation, RicePigeon, would be actively targeting people on this forum to intentionally mock, humiliate, or demean them. I don't think you're malicious or that any of this was intentional so I don't think you would do something like that.
Title: Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: kakkoii superhero on April 12, 2012, 02:17:48 am
I'm still against this idea.
in this level of beauty pageant should also about what you're born with, and not the end result of plastic surgeries, collagen and implants padded person,

and about equality? we are not equal by nature, some of us are born beautiful, some are not that lucky, so we who don't have beauty pageant material looks know our place not to force ourselves into the show by altering our appearances,

the same with a person who was born in wrong body, woman who was born with penis and no breast.
so she changed herself into corrected body through operation, now she looks like a woman, thanks to the skillful plastic surgeons.
should she now enter herself into beauty miss universe pageant contest?
IMO she should fly to Thailand and enter the transgender queen contest, because that is what she is, although she has a slim chance to win there against thai's transgenders.

of course if it is about voting she has a potential to win, because even though they are minority but together they can unite and cast more votes than the majority of world population, who care to watch and cast their vote for a beauty pageant contest, and plus people who just picked her for the heck of it.   
Title: Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: Dcat on April 12, 2012, 02:29:47 am
I'm still against this idea.
in this level of beauty pageant should also about what you're born with, and not the end result of plastic surgeries, collagen and implants padded person,
ARE YOU SERIOUS? The merits for beauty in these pageants concerning some socially constructed  feminine ideal are all based around artifice. If it were down to a natural beauty, no alterations decision I doubt any of the contestants would be eligible...

On a related note, I'm very proud to be a member of this forum after reading Caddie, Rajaa's and Jmorphman's posts. Its good to know that our generation isn't as small-minded as it once was when it comes to issues of inequality.

 
Title: Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: Jango on April 12, 2012, 02:32:49 am
Navatsea went for sexism AND racism in his post. Wow.


And to ChronoWifeXOXOetcetc, Dave Chapelle isn't racist because HE'S A NIGGER
Title: Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: Cobra Caddie on April 12, 2012, 02:34:44 am
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

But beauty pageants have featured plastic surgery, collagen, implants, make up, tape, and body altering and concealing techniques for decades. She doesn't look how she looks just from surgery either. It takes hard work and a bit of genetic luck to look like that. I would imagine her looks are just as 'natural' as a LOT of the women in the contest.

If she is legally a woman now, and she's beautiful, why not enter a beauty pageant for women? Why be forced to fly to Thailand? I personally don't even like the concept of beauty pageants, but it's not for me. It's for women who work hard on their appearance and want to reach the peak of that hard work; being judged as "most beautiful" in competition. This woman just wants to be a part of that, too.

Though I gotta say I understand why there are people who are against this, this subject is justifiably open to differing opinions. Just why does she need to be insulted and degraded just because the decision went in her favor?
Title: Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: kakkoii superhero on April 12, 2012, 02:53:21 am
when I said beauty pageant I specifically typed miss universe, and when I said plastic surgery, please use your sense about how much is too much.

I don't insult her, or being sexist, it just, there is another more fitting place for her to compete against without being mocked or being suspected of riding the current hot LGBT issue,
she could have asked the reporter to hide her face, but instead she smiled to the camera, she is not stupid, she will use the exposure to her advantage.

and I'm serious about saying she has a slim chance to win against Thai's transgender queens.


btw, Cad
flying to USA for miss universe pageant is ok
but flying to Thailand for transgender queen pageant is not ok?
why,
is Thailand < USA?
is she not a transgender?
Title: Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: Cobra Caddie on April 12, 2012, 03:01:04 am
So plastic surgery is fine everywhere but the groin? And when I asked if she should be insulted or degraded, I didn't mean that it was coming from you. Just that it's happening.

I'm sure that she wants to be accepted as a woman. As much as she can be. I'm sure that the publicity could help or hurt her extremely and good luck to her, it had to have taken a lot of courage to go through with this. This is still a world where you can be killed for being this public about being a transsexual.

I don't get why you would suggest she should give up a contest where you think she could win and compete in a competition in which you think she would lose, btw.

Edit:

btw, Cad
flying to USA for miss universe pageant is ok
but flying to Thailand for transgender queen pageant is not ok?
why,
is Thailand < USA?
is she not a transgender?

No, I didn't mean that. I meant why should she travel to Thailand to compete in a different contest when that's not her desire? Besides, traveling to the US from Vancouver is a lot different than traveling all the way to Thailand.

Edit 2: Apparently she already HAS competed in a Thailand beauty pageant:
Quote
Talackova has never hidden her status and in fact took part in the 2010 Miss International Queen competition in Thailand
Title: Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: CF7 on April 12, 2012, 04:30:58 am
Edit 2: Apparently she already HAS competed in a Thailand beauty pageant:
Quote
Talackova has never hidden her status and in fact took part in the 2010 Miss International Queen competition in Thailand
...so it really is a marketing ploy...!
Title: Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: Cobra Caddie on April 12, 2012, 04:34:00 am
No because Miss International Queen is a transgender/transsexual only competition.

...I had to look all this stuff up, it's not off-hand knowledge to me. Really!
Title: Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: Chronan on April 12, 2012, 04:42:34 am
but the same goes for Chapelle Show back in the day, which was a funny show some of the time despite it being horribly racist.
Uhh... what?
Seriously? Really offensive racist jokes. It was still funny as hell. I'm not sure why there's any confusion here.

And to ChronoWifeXOXOetcetc, Dave Chapelle isn't racist because HE'S A NIGGER
Yeah, I'm a big Michael Richards fan too. I never said he was racist because of his jokes btw, that was my point. That he makes horribly racist jokes and it's good. RicePigeon or whoever the OP was may have been trying to do the same thing, but his execution blew dick.
Title: Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: Jmorphman on April 12, 2012, 04:51:06 am
Seriously? Really offensive racist jokes. It was still funny as hell. I'm not sure why there's any confusion here.
:stare:

I don't think anyone would ever say that the show is racist. It uses racial humor yes, but that in and of itself is not racist.
Title: Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: kakkoii superhero on April 12, 2012, 05:09:04 am
There are other ways to celebrate her new self as a legitimate woman, without being controversial and attention seeking to the whole world, trying to force other people to deal or modified the rule of some event for personal satisfaction, it is one thing to be a post op transgender to get accepted in society and try to push herself into miss universe, it won't bring her nowhere other than being highlighted as a "that transgender who tried to be miss universe" instead, while being quietly blend into society with a new start, nobody would have guessed.
So saying this is for the sake of being accepted by society as a woman is bullshit, this way she only want to prove that as a transgender she could be better than real woman, she is proud to be transgender that can compete in the same stage as real women, not because she want to be acknowledge as real woman.

Somebody has to be extremely naive, ignorant or idiot for not expecting the miss universe organization won't check her background, especially when she also entered transexual pageant several years before, and that it won't bait the media, and that the whole world would forever see her as transgender, a controversial one.

appearing in a tv talk show like Oprah or whatever would be million times better if being accepted as a woman is what she truly seeking for.   
Title: Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: Cobra Caddie on April 12, 2012, 05:33:57 am
....She got the rules changed. How could she have gotten nowhere when she broke ground and changed rules? Now transgendered women can compete in Miss Universe. What she did benefits others who now can follow in her footsteps.

Both of us have spoken for her intentions though, and I think we're wrong to do so. But I spoke about it based on my experienced with transgendered women, and they have wanted to be accepted as women. And are discouraged when they're constantly reminded that they never will be because of people like you.

You're right though. No one should ever follow their dreams or attempt to become famous or successful. ::)
Title: Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: kakkoii superhero on April 12, 2012, 06:18:14 am
....But I spoke about it based on my experienced with transgendered women, and they have wanted to be accepted as women. And are discouraged when they're constantly reminded that they never will be because of people like you.

You're right though. No one should ever follow their dreams or attempt to become famous or successful. ::)

Quote
So saying this is for the sake of being accepted by society as a woman is bullshit, this way she only want to prove that as a transgender she could be better than real woman, she is proud to be transgender that can compete in the same stage as real women, not because she want to be acknowledge as real woman.

Somebody has to be extremely naive, ignorant or idiot for not expecting the miss universe organization won't check her background, especially when she also entered transexual pageant several years before, and that it won't bait the media, and that the whole world would forever see her as transgender, a controversial one.

Quote
appearing in a tv talk show like Oprah or whatever would be million times better if being accepted as a woman is what she truly seeking for.
seems like I have to repeat myself since you choose not to read before accusing "people like me"


Title: Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: Cobra Caddie on April 12, 2012, 06:23:51 am
I did read that and was explaining, based on my experience, why I think you're wrong about that. That transgender women, from my experience, want being a transgender woman to mean that they are a full woman.

Plus she and all transgendered women can now compete in the biggest beauty pageant in the world, in a contest designed for women. Thanks to her. So...I guess that's kinda like being accepted as a women. But nope, it's all selfish and she just wanted to be a star, right? And wanting to be a star is a bad thing I guess.

And yes, people like you. People who think she should just go compete in some transgendered competition with her OWN kind instead of forcing themselves into places where they don't belong and ruining things for everyone!
Title: Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: Rajaa Retired on April 12, 2012, 06:40:58 am
According to Navetsea, no one should fight for their rights. We should all let shit happen for the sake of blending in and not causing too much trouble.
Title: Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: kakkoii superhero on April 12, 2012, 07:33:20 am
no according to me, Caddie thinks all transgendered to have collective hive mind, they have same motive, same feeling allover the world.

he also got confused about his own idea and facts:

transgender women want to be accepted as women (1st statement)
this transgender woman who want to be accepted as woman compete in miss transgender queen (2nd statement)
the same transgender woman now want to compete in missuniverse because she want to be accepted as normal woman (3rd statement)
all of this based on his experience with transgendered friends who truly want to be accepted as women, but they don't compete in any beauty pageants (4th statement)

Rajaa+ Caddie opinion:
Being successful = entering missuniverse as a contestant
there is no other way.

imo:
-all contestants of beauty pageants are attention seekers, miss universe is not the most beautiful and intellectual woman of this planet, but only the best of the attention seeking women in that year, they don't want to blend in they want to stand out.

to be accepted as woman she needs to blend with women as one of the millions of other women  not to be in the headline of newspapers as the 1st ever transgender queen who compete in miss universe.

To be a successful woman is totally achievable without pulling any attention of what gender she was born with, through other channels as a musician, artist, architect, clothes designer, hair dresser, lawyer, doctor, cosmetic experts, etc.

that is why Caddie's friends are probably not competing in beauty pageant, because they just want to be normal women.
Title: Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: Rajaa Retired on April 12, 2012, 07:35:19 am
Nobody agrees with you, mostly because you're wrong and dogmatic.
Title: Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: kakkoii superhero on April 12, 2012, 07:46:26 am
I don't care. 
since when you represent everybody
Title: Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: SNT on April 12, 2012, 08:15:58 am
If Rajaa representing me means I disagree with you on the grounds that you're wrong and overly dogmatic, then yes.  Incidentally:

Quote
“Miss Universe” voting is open to people located in the home countries of the 2011 “Miss Universe” contestants.
And even then, this only seems to get contestants as far as being national finalists.  Everything past then is decided upon by a ten-judge panel.
Title: Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: kakkoii superhero on April 12, 2012, 08:44:31 am
OK. it is easy to say I'm wrong without even telling what part of my view that is wrong to you?
I'm stay true to my word, I don't bend it to fit the community's trend, or to make myself popular into today's standard, however If you can show where I did my mistake that make sense to me, I will acknowledge it and apologize. and use your viewpoint as replacement of mine,
if you can't then I will stick to what I have said.

because so far none of you explain why you labeled me sexist or racist, while I didn't make any racist or sexist statements in my posts here. 
Title: Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: Rajaa Retired on April 12, 2012, 01:02:17 pm
You're wrong because you're not right.
Title: Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: Mog on April 12, 2012, 01:03:23 pm
Nobody agrees with you, mostly because you're wrong and dogmatic.

And nobody agrees with you because you're pretentious and condescending,  but what does that have to do with the topic?   

On topic, a tg athlete could probably have an advantage but I dont see that happening in Miss Universe.

:bow:

Title: Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: Rajaa Retired on April 12, 2012, 01:04:20 pm
I'm not pretentious, but you just proved that you are. But what does that have to do with the topic?
Title: Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: Mog on April 12, 2012, 01:08:58 pm
no YOU!  I'm telling mom!!

 ;P
Title: Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: Cobra Caddie on April 12, 2012, 01:09:59 pm
Guys, guys! You're both pretentious!

But not as pretentious as me. Get on my level, newbies. 8)
Title: Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: Rajaa Retired on April 12, 2012, 01:14:13 pm
no YOU!  I'm telling mom!!
You're not my sister anymore, you transgender trucker named Bob.


OK. it is easy to say I'm wrong without even telling what part of my view that is wrong to you?
I'm stay true to my word, I don't bend it to fit the community's trend, or to make myself popular into today's standard, however If you can show where I did my mistake that make sense to me, I will acknowledge it and apologize. and use your viewpoint as replacement of mine,
if you can't then I will stick to what I have said.

because so far none of you explain why you labeled me sexist or racist, while I didn't make any racist or sexist statements in my posts here.
Sorry, I don't think anyone that thinks allowing transgender people to participate in a pageant is doing it because it's popular. You are not respectable simply because you stay by your word, and neither is your position.

Bending your viewpoints and changing is not something that is necessarily bad and it's no wonder many of your posts make you look like a bigot because you're still stuck in the past. Time for you to grow up and realize that you don't have all of the answers.
Title: Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: Valodim on April 12, 2012, 01:28:45 pm
Hm. This is a weird issue.

One might argue that, just like the Miss International Queen is a beauty pagean for transgender women only, the Miss Universe is one for natural born women only. This is an open question. It was never specified before because when the Miss Universe stuff was founded in the 50s it just wasn't relevant.

Now I'm not saying transgender women don't have a certain point, but why do transgender women have a contest where only transgender women are allowed, and at the same time demand they are allowed in some other contest, condemning people who say "this was meant as a contest for natural women only!", this is not how tolerance should work.

From my point of view, it's a historical problem of tolerance that we are going to overcome soon enough. I'm looking forward to the day when it's just as politically incorrect to exclude natural women from your beauty contest as it is to exclude transgender ones ;D
Title: Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: SilentRipper on April 13, 2012, 04:28:09 am
intolerance can no longer be tolerated by "tolerant" people I guess...
Title: Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: Cobra Caddie on April 13, 2012, 04:57:50 am
Well that's a different issue. There are many pageants that have a set criteria, for example, and these are only ones that I've heard as an American, Miss Teen USA and Miss Black USA. Those are exclusive pageants.

But Miss Universe is supposed to be at about finding the best of the best right? Since it's a best of the best competition, wouldn't it make sense to be as inclusive as possible, as far as representation goes?

For the record I was going to post this last night, but decided that it was very strange for a group of men to be discussing beauty pageants on a Mugen forum. I guess I couldn't help myself.
Title: Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: Bastard Mami on April 13, 2012, 04:25:39 pm
intolerance can no longer be tolerated by "tolerant" people I guess...

And people confuse "tolerance" with "acceptance", just because I tolerate that a person like shorrible music it does not mean that I accept that music as being good.
Title: Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: Lobo on April 13, 2012, 06:39:43 pm
Only in a beauty pageant would beauty be blown so out of proportion. I treat transgendered people just like I would treat anyone. I don't see why society cares so much about mate selection to the point where it dominates their lives. If the environment doesn't have a problem with it I wouldn't either. However, if the contest says you have to have been born female then they must yield to that as well. So if the criteria finds you have a Y chromosome then you're out. Even if you have some genetic abnormality. Having a problem with it at that point is like saying that a guy is allowed to be in Miss Universe.

Now in this case I assume that the 'Miss' in Miss Universe is used loosely so if that is what they made as the rules of the pagent then it is okay. But noone is beyond established rules. If someone can manipulate their way into getting into it then the contest itself is weak and needs to be changed.

When I see a transgendered person trying to take part in something superficial as this it reminds me why they are no different than anyone else.
Title: Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: Jmorphman on April 14, 2012, 01:26:33 am
For the record I was going to post this last night, but decided that it was very strange for a group of men to be discussing beauty pageants on a Mugen forum. I guess I couldn't help myself.
It could be worse; you could be discussing a children's beauty pageant!
Title: Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: Valodim on April 14, 2012, 04:15:24 am
parents shattered dream proxy pageant
Title: Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: kakkoii superhero on May 21, 2012, 01:05:04 pm
Transgender-Miss-Universe-Canada-contestant-loses (http://www.katu.com/news/entertainment/Transgender-Miss-Universe-Canada-contestant-loses--152205425.html?tab=gallery&c=y&img=1)
Title: Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: "Bad News" Hoffmann on May 21, 2012, 01:14:47 pm
Nearly all..if not all the women be they born as women or not went trough multiple surgerys, they wear a ton of make up and are anything but "natural" anyway..lol so what does it matter today how they were born? Beauty contests these days are more like contests of the surgery specialists than the women.
Title: Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: Bastard Mami on May 21, 2012, 04:40:26 pm
in third world countries the contestants do not win based on appareance anyway, but on political and economical connections/reasons.
Title: Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: XamΣeta on May 21, 2012, 10:59:41 pm

Damn...she's pretty hot too.
Title: Re: Transgenders now allowed to compete in Miss Universe Pageant
Post by: Foobs on May 22, 2012, 02:02:03 am
this is not how tolerance should work.

Our world is completely made up of double standards. 'Oppressed' groups have the right to say this aloud, 'historically dominant' groups don't.