YesNoOk
avatar

Capcom vs SNK / SNK vs Capcom - The Modern Setting (Read 2849 times)

Started by ZeroInNothingness, October 16, 2016, 05:49:36 am
Email this topic
View printable version
« previous next »
Page 1 of 11   Go Down

ZeroInNothingness

Capcom vs SNK / SNK vs Capcom - The Modern Setting
New #1  October 16, 2016, 05:49:36 am
  • **
    Introductions
    ------------------------------------------------------------------
    So yeah, pretty sure a lot of people has ideas for a CvS3. I don’t know if anyone has actually come up with full-on concrete ideas for new Grooves based on the newer Capcom and SNK titles (probably has), but I always had an idea that it should’ve been mostly based off of SF4 and KoF XIII (even with XIV out right now, this idea really didn’t change, although maybe the XIV style that takes from 98, 2002, and XIII might work better. Who knows?). This is what I would find ideal in a new CvS game (or a new SNK game).

    Originally, I also wanted a CAP/SNK Groove, but why so many grooves? Why not just 2 grooves that work perfectly fine? Don’t need to add so many grooves after all, just 2 that works really well (in theory).



    Roster
    ------------------------------------------------------------------
    Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

    Story
    Well, story mode would be nice, but I’d like a fighting game to mostly focus on the fighting, so this is an area I didn’t really bother thinking about. I’m sure anyone else out there could think of a better story mode than I can.

    Game Mechanics
    ------------------------------------------------------------------
    Universal Mechanics
    Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty
    C-Groove Mechanics
    Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty
    S-Groove Mechanics
    Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty
    Things that could be worked on or completely changed
    Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

    Now, let's get to the actual important part! Characters!
    • Note: Character / Character means that one out of the listed characters in that slot should be picked over the other choices.

    Characters
    ------------------------------------------------------------------
    Capcom Side
    Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty
    SNK Side
    Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

    Sub-Bosses and Bosses
    ------------------------------------------------------------------
    Sub-Bosses (Playable)
    Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty
    Bosses
    Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

    "DLC" Characters / Character Expansions (if it ever gets to this point or if it even kicks off)
    ------------------------------------------------------------------
    Capcom Side - 1st Expansion
    Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty
    SNK Side - 1st Expansion
    Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty
    Capcom Side - 2nd Expansion
    Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty
    SNK Side - 2nd Expansion
    Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty
    Capcom Side - 3rd Expansion
    Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty
    SNK Side - 3rd Expansion
    Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty
    Sub-Bosses and Bosses - 3rd Expansion
    Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty
    Other Characters I considered
    Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

    Incomplete Move List
    Ryu
    Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty
    Kyo Kusanagi
    Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty
    [/list]
    Last Edit: October 26, 2016, 06:16:50 pm by ZeroInNothingness

    Trololo

    Re: Capcom vs SNK / SNK vs Capcom - The Modern Setting
    #2  October 16, 2016, 06:20:58 am
    • ****
    • Objection! Sustained!
      • Russia
      • mitia.pogorelov1@yandex.ru
    Sounds neat. But I think, that I'll have to get hard to this 4-button layout.
    And I got some grooves ideas, but they're pretty basic:
    -G-Groove- based on "Garou: Mark of the wolves". So, it must feature "Just defended", "T.O.P.", "T.O.P. Attack" and system of supers.
    -I-Groove- based... On "Street Fighter". Yep, on original, first game. No supers, one power stock for 1000 points, when it achieved, you may finally use special move, which deals damage like normal LVL 1 super. Just ike in "SF1", where it's hard to execute specials, but they deals a tons of damage. XD
    -V-Groove- of course, based on "Street Fighter 5". 3 power stocks. 1 stock costs V-Reversal, 2 stocks used for V-Trigger, and all 3 stocks for super. Yes, it looks broken, and it IS broken, cause SF5 used 2 gauges instead of 1, but hell, I don't think you'll use EX-Moves for chars, so I tryed to put V-Gauge's property to Power Gauge instead.
    Well, that's all. I don't think we really need a lots of gauges. Plus I don't play SNK fightings much, so I dunno what can I do to think about new gauges, based on THEM.

    ZeroInNothingness

    Re: Capcom vs SNK / SNK vs Capcom - The Modern Setting
    #3  October 16, 2016, 07:17:51 am
    • **
    Grooves weren't really named for the game title. They were named based on the company name lol. Like, K-Groove was based off of Samurai Shodown in CvS2, not KoF.

    "G-Groove" sounds interesting although I'm thinking the KoF XIV variant of Just Defend can be added to the S-Groove instead. Also, Garou-version of Just Defend is pretty scary (due to air defense being possible) and not sure how it'll balance the game out. Adding too many grooves will also make whoever makes the characters more annoyed too since that's more to program lol.

    Not sold on I-Groove. Too much effort for little reward since you'll be gimping yourself with normals for half the match with no special moves. Also I'm not an expert on SF1 but I don't think that's how SF1 went. Also, going back in time when the purpose of this idea is to use modern-day games for the Groove System sounds counterproductive.

    "V-Groove" will be tough to implement because how would we be able to think of a V-Trigger for 5 characters, let alone 24 minimum? Also EX Moves are very important and it's mentioned in the Universal Mechanics section that many Special Moves have EX versions of them. However, if it could be done, well then...that would be pretty amazing lol.

    Reason for the 4 button layout is so if anyone actually ends up making the characters, it's less work for them to create the moveset lol.
    Last Edit: October 16, 2016, 07:23:50 am by ZeroInNothingness

    Trololo

    Re: Capcom vs SNK / SNK vs Capcom - The Modern Setting
    #4  October 16, 2016, 07:35:51 am
    • ****
    • Objection! Sustained!
      • Russia
      • mitia.pogorelov1@yandex.ru
    Well, to use ONLY modern games here is also not quite good idea. Just look at "Street Fighter X Tekken". Ability to charge out super would be great, but defenetely disbalanced to other grooves. ESPECIALLY if there will be simul mode. And here is funny fact: there is only two really different games instead of "SF x TK" in SF Series we can call modern: SF4 and SF5.
    So really, it you want to proceed in way of modern, then there is really only two grooves will be fine, cause we'll not get much more. I personally prefere more gauges, but the only way to build'em up is to look at some older games. For example, SFA3. Here, we got already 3 good Grooves on Capcom side! XD
    P.S.: didn't know about names of grooves. Lol.

    Zazamyon2

    Re: Capcom vs SNK / SNK vs Capcom - The Modern Setting
    #5  October 16, 2016, 11:20:03 am
    • **
    • $-$**Dreaming**$-$
      • South Korea
      • https://blog.naver.com/PostList.naver?blogId=blood72&from=postList&categoryNo=159
    You mentioned capcom vs snk 3 but i think we are already up to Capcom Vs SNK 5 by now technically by Mugen standards......so many full game projects plus svsnk universe, cvsW 2.4 and 2.8 etc.

    I think that a cool idea for grooves would be basically:

    Excel groove - default mechanics but can excecute sfex2plus excel combo supers aswell as normal supers.

    Rage Groove - default mechanics but changes to omni color or gains aura or sumthing like sfxtekken and can do infinite sf3/4 style ex moves and supers for 15 seconds with full meter and low health.

    Dark Groove-can sacrifice own health for damage or performing ex moves or.something.like.mira on Killer instinct

    A health recovery groove?

    A super armor groove?

    Anyway i think every groove should be special technique related, not take away mechanics like recovery, dodge, counter, run etc. That made sense back before crossovers were first becoming a thing.....

    ZeroInNothingness

    Re: Capcom vs SNK / SNK vs Capcom - The Modern Setting
    New #6  October 26, 2016, 06:06:40 pm
    • **
    Trololo said, October 16, 2016, 07:35:51 am
    Well, to use ONLY modern games here is also not quite good idea. Just look at "Street Fighter X Tekken". Ability to charge out super would be great, but defenetely disbalanced to other grooves. ESPECIALLY if there will be simul mode. And here is funny fact: there is only two really different games instead of "SF x TK" in SF Series we can call modern: SF4 and SF5.
    So really, it you want to proceed in way of modern, then there is really only two grooves will be fine, cause we'll not get much more. I personally prefere more gauges, but the only way to build'em up is to look at some older games. For example, SFA3. Here, we got already 3 good Grooves on Capcom side! XD
    P.S.: didn't know about names of grooves. Lol.

    SFxT groove is basically SFV groove with no V-Skills and character switches and assists. Now I'm not saying it's possible but adding assists will open up too many ideas.

    Also, I would like to emphasize that we don't really need 6 grooves. Just 2 that works should be fine. I mean, thinking of 6 new and different grooves and programming it? I mean, this is still only in Idea Engineering for a reason but if it wasn't then I would not be wishing all that work on other people as it is. For the C-Groove, I already mixed SF3 and SF4 to give the C-Groove enough tools to rival S-Groove.

    I think I was pretty detailed (for the most part) with the C-Groove and S-Groove of the possible next generation; think about making 4 more grooves with that much detail and outline while making the mechanic fair and balanced. If I was a game designer for Capcom or SNK in this day and age and I was making a CvS3, I would want every Groove to be viable. I mean, CvS2 was pretty balanced for the most part (except Roll Cancelling) and people never used the S-Groove and P-Groove of that game.

    lol at the last part.

    Zazamyon2 said, October 16, 2016, 11:20:03 am
    You mentioned capcom vs snk 3 but i think we are already up to Capcom Vs SNK 5 by now technically by Mugen standards......so many full game projects plus svsnk universe, cvsW 2.4 and 2.8 etc.

    I think that a cool idea for grooves would be basically:

    Excel groove - default mechanics but can excecute sfex2plus excel combo supers aswell as normal supers.

    Rage Groove - default mechanics but changes to omni color or gains aura or sumthing like sfxtekken and can do infinite sf3/4 style ex moves and supers for 15 seconds with full meter and low health.

    Dark Groove-can sacrifice own health for damage or performing ex moves or.something.like.mira on Killer instinct

    A health recovery groove?

    A super armor groove?

    Anyway i think every groove should be special technique related, not take away mechanics like recovery, dodge, counter, run etc. That made sense back before crossovers were first becoming a thing.....



    Mugen has made a lot of CvS's, but do those gameplays reflect what a CvS game would be like in the future if they were actually made by Capcom or SNK? Or do they all use the CvS2 or PotS system?

    "Excel" Groove is similar to the KoF 13 groove due to custom combos (although idk how often you can access those in the EX series), but I don't know how I feel about Guard Breaks. Focus Attack should be good enough to cover that and putting too many things into 1 seems a tad bit too much.

    Everything else like Rage Groove, Dark Groove, Health Recovery Groove, and Super Armor Groove sounds VERY vague and I don't know where it's coming from. "Gains aura or something" doesn't exactly sound specific...

    Not all games have dodge rolls and runs as a universal mechanic; MK9 and all of the main Street Fighter is a good example. Neither C-Groove and S-Groove takes away counters since that's a universal thing; getting a counter hit will do more damage for both grooves.

    Grooves are not "give a new mechanic." It's a whole fighting style based on specific games and takes the mechanics from those games, making each groove a whole mechanic of its own. While all grooves and a lot of games share some form of a Universal Fighting Game mechanic (block, normal moves, special moves, take damage when hit, health indicator of some sort, etc etc), not all games share the majority of the mechanics you see in fighting games all the time. Even blocking is different in MK compared to SF for example, and the way characters move is different throughout the games; Guilty Gear and MvC has air dash and double jump, for example, and SF and KoF games you generally cannot block in the air. In Smash Bros, you die by ring out, not by losing health (except in Special Smash), although Smash is a more "out-there" example. That's why the C-Groove does not have rolls and runs short hops and super jumps while S-Groove does not have Focus Attacks and parries and dashes.



    Last Edit: October 26, 2016, 06:13:13 pm by ZeroInNothingness
    Page 1 of 11   Go Up
    « previous next »