Just to be clear, I'm not frankenspriting him, so Joe Higashi and Kyo's moves don't need to be considered. Felo drew the face, and the hands and feet are from Joe and Kyo, but I drew everything else. So yeah, just wanted to make sure that was clear.Joe is a kickboxer with a bit of street fighting thrown in. I have some ideas for a moveset already but obviously that's open for discussion. He's not gonna have a rising knee or anything like that, I want to differentiate him from other muay thai characters like Higashi and Adon. The spin kick he has in SF1 can be a command normal. I'll make some sketches for some move ideas I have and put them up.
Bruce Irvin is probably a better Tekken source than Bryan. He's a true kickboxer and has a more exaggerated moveset. Bryan was 'Let's take a handful of Bruce's moves and throw them on this evil cyborg guy'
yeah I'd say bruce from tekken and zack from dead or alive have a decent array of kick-boxing attacks that should help differentiate him from others like joe/adon/sagat and so on
Basically a kickboxer that went full fight club street fighting later on would be a good mix. I feel his attacks should be quite erratic for the most part.
DKDC said, April 18, 2014, 07:15:31 pmI don't think Joe should be centered around "true kick-boxing moves" with a lot of technique.Agreed.What do you feel about this:in order to convey his speed a rushing move where he ducks a fireball first and then grabs (hcb punch, if you press kick he knees, if you press punch he headbutts)A rushing multi punch kind of move like what Decapre got, just rushing and brawling, for his qcf punchA auto guard into hit counter move ( hold pose then strike) where if he hits the opponent blocking he gets damaged, although slightlyCrack shoot, sliding kick attack with three heights, based on cody move.In order to remember his bases his block and stuff like that could show his influences, with him blocking with his leg.Taunt could be him punching himself and gaining powerbar over it while losing a pixel or two of life per second of taunt.i dunno how many hyper moves this game going to have, but i would include something that damaged him, like, headbutting the opponent , climbing them up, jumping to the far wall and then back with a elbow, ending with both in pain on the ground. Backyard wrestling mixed with kickboxing, something that a brawler that had to give up the ghost ended up using instead of stuff with finesse.
If going for brutality, an eloquent "kick'em while they're down" would do wonders, as would a number of moves that would could lead to that (sort of like Mila's Takedown in DoA5, only Joe would be sure to remain standing up, or close enough to that).On the broader topic of characters - adapting Rajaa's Dhalsim, yay or nay?...
【ＭＦＧ】Iced said, April 18, 2014, 07:37:00 pmsomething like this?That and/or stomping on them like in Yamazaki's super.
I'm thinking he should have kicks and punches that show he has great training, but an erratic behavior and approach to these moves, like they were warped by fight club-ing, so I wouldn't insist on headbutts everywhere and the likes. The ducking dash could be in a weird crooked position, but a perfect ankle-breaking, posture-smashing, sweeping kick would follow (as an alternate to the grab and knee bash). It might be too much if all the variants are nuts.Ruffian Kick-inspired move works if the kicks themselves have animations that show he got violent and not right in the head with pit fights.The rest can work. Like the elbow drop super.Something like Tekken's Ultimate Tackle series, yeah. Yamazaki's kicks... Only if there's just a couple, he shouldn't be completely insane like him either.
The way these comments make me think of it, his defense and weaker attacks, used to try and open up the opponent, should have a trained/refined look to them - but their follow-up should be the brutal stuff once he's made sure he can land them.For a throw, for exmaple, the part involving grabbing the opponent and tossing him to the ground should look well-practiced, but that happens afterwards, while not Yamazaki-insane, should display a blatant disregard for the opponent's well-being.Also, he should know better than to lead with his head - bad idea, gives the opponent an easy target and messes up his hair.
I'm with DKDC. He started out with a foundation for kick boxing but it's been twisted by brawling. I like the wolverine type attack. Could be D,D+PHe should also have a leaping pursuit like Darkstalkers with U+K while they are downed. It can be a more typical leap attack like where he lands with his knee on ground and fist. No damage comes to him if he hits or misses. Just free damage on knowckdown if it connects. He'll need extra help like that since some of his attacks cause himself damage.Did anyone like any of the 3 defensive/offensive ideas I listed earlier? Cody V-ism block or parry or that counter attack while being in hit stun?Example of counter attack out of hitstun would be to press SP while in hitstun and he flashes red once makes crazy face and comes in with a haymaker.Might have to play with timings and or meter usage if the counter techniques prove too overpowered but in most cases the opponent should be able to block before getting hit or jab him back out of it again.Iced: 3 supers per character ala super select like SF3 EX attacks as well
The backlash counter sounds like a cool move but I'm worried it would be too easy to use it by mistake when it isn't warranted. Like, canceling a gethit that's about to end anyway, when the opponent wasn't going to keep attacking, and you're getting punished for it (either it has a cost, or it simply makes you even more open if the opponent waits it out, watches you swing big, and demolishes you with their own counter). If it has a too strong drawback, something like that would force you to get extremely technical and cautious with him - which doesn't sound like it makes sense for such a character. Even if it's given a big incentive one way or another.And if it doesn't have a drawback like decreased defense at the very least, then it's just overpowered compared to everyone else. And a decreased defense would just make him even more vulnerable to a counter, forcing him to be even more cautious. Power consumption, I don't think that's an end-all solution to not making moves overpowered. Here again, if you use it by mistake, you're getting countered but you're also losing powerbar. That's just too dangerous. So I'm not really seeing a way to make it work out.A variation of super armor building up on that idea would make more sense, I think. Like, he has a special move that looks normal, you can counter it, he's going to get hit, but he'll grit his teeth and get right back in your face and finish the move he started anyway. Similar to a super armor (that does lose some life), but with a flinch animation that goes right back into the end of the attack.Cody's V-Ism block would just be a dodge-counter special. The ducking dash type of move would give the same result, I don't think replacing the block with a swaying dodge is so interesting, gameplay-wise, it sounds like fancy eye-candy that tries to look fun but doesn't actually help. Was it any interesting for Cody ? I never played him in V-Ism (I never played V-Ism)
He's the easiest to beat Bison with while in V-Ism because the super psycho crusher goes right beside him while he blocks with no chip or push back.I was thinking if it got used that he should have 2 variants of the dodge. One that rocks him left and one that rocks him right so it looks like he's swaying between their movements and not just going the same way. Kind of like Steve Fox has in TxSF.The attack back while being hit could be done by pressing punch and kick of the same strength too so you don't do it as accidentally. The only time you use those are for taunts, custom combos, and throws so it's not likely you'll mess up with that.
I think Joe should not be sticked only in Kickboxing. I think a bit of MMA would do him some good.Also, Bruce Irving and Zack practices MUAY THAY, not Kickboxing ---Bryan Fury does kickboxing !
I just love those brutal roundhouses; suggesting Bryan (or Bruce, for that matter) for moveset reference would be dumb. Joe strikes me as more of a dirty, brutal, rugged fighter than a highly trained kick boxing savant. Of course, I also like the idea of mixing trained movements with brutal follow-ups.Ground pound should definitely be more Yamazaki in nature than the wolverine gif; Sean already sorta has that move. Maybe even something like Vanilla Ice's super from the Capcom JJBA game?
Just No Point said, April 18, 2014, 08:05:14 pmI like the wolverine type attack. Could be D,D+PRaw?On a downed opponent?Follow-up to moves that knock opponents to the floor (sweep, throw(s), etc...)?Throw follow-up to close-up heavy hits, not unlike the ability to use throws from combos like in Final Fight?All of the above?Speaking of throws, the arena brutality angle makes me think of modifications to the throws when the victim's against the wall, like in 3D ighters like DoA - not typically SF-ish, but Joe's from the days long before SF had settled on any notion of "typical", so there's stuff he could get away with to make up for his more grounded style.QuoteHe should also have a leaping pursuit like Darkstalkers with U+K while they are downed. It can be a more typical leap attack like where he lands with his knee on ground and fist. No damage comes to him if he hits or misses. Just free damage on knowckdown if it connects. He'll need extra help like that since some of his attacks cause himself damage.Sounds good to me - and sort of also plays into the 3D fighter thing, in a way - not so sure about his attacks hurting him, at least when he's got enough power bar not to need that.QuoteDid anyone like any of the 3 defensive/offensive ideas I listed earlier? Cody V-ism block or parry or that counter attack while being in hit stun?Example of counter attack out of hitstun would be to press SP while in hitstun and he flashes red once makes crazy face and comes in with a haymaker.I tend to prefer the idea of a counter out of heavy enough hitstun (wouldn't want to to work off something fast like a jab) being a throw, like DoA's holds. Maybe paying for it with some power bar, so it can't be infinitely abused - if the opponent's confident enough to try a heavy swing at him, he'll take it for the opportunity to be up close enough for a throw - which in turn can put the countered victim on the floor for some further punishment.It would be, of course, impossible against projectiles.Some games have characters that get to teleport out of the way when hit, sometimes for an attack that might not hit - Hanzo and Galford in some Samurai Shodown games - and those attacks are free since they're not guaranteed damage. With power bar to spend there's room to make this work, I think - DoA has ways to get away with it despite like a "currency" to spend like a power bar, so I figure taking the damage, having the reflexes to execute the counter and paying in power bar should be fair, give or take some tweaking in the amount used up.
