The Mugen Fighters Guild

M.U.G.E.N Central => M.U.G.E.N Discussion => Topic started by: GeorgeMP on October 22, 2019, 10:02:15 pm

Title: Why do you hate compilations?
Post by: GeorgeMP on October 22, 2019, 10:02:15 pm
Now, why do you all hate compilations? I've been wondering this because everywhere I see them being talked about, no-one's ever said anything positive about them. But maybe I'm missing something here. Back to my question:

Why do you all hate MUGEN compilations?

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Title: Re: Why do you hate compilations?
Post by: DeathScythe on October 22, 2019, 10:11:16 pm
Mostly because is "just" a compilation, something that literally anybody can do. There is no effort put into it, you just download content from other authors and put it all together. Most of the time it's inconsistent, unbalanced, character styles clashes, and the final product is just "poor". Not to mention that some people are disrespectful, they take content from other authors and say "no, I made this, it's all my work".

It's very different from a full game where you develop your own characters, making them balanced and consistent, and actually putting effort into the project.
Title: Re: Why do you hate compilations?
Post by: AMultiverseAuthor on October 22, 2019, 10:28:15 pm
Pretty much what DeathScythe said.

And one such example is 2dee4ever's CVSU project a few years back. It's comprised of POTS-styled characters, with a few new ones he made using Infinite's Krauser as a template (Yoko, Scorpion, Captain Commando, Ryougi, etc)  but everybody else is half-baked. They were all edited to have 6 buttons and had POTS effects slapped on them.

If all of them were made on Infinite's template, CVSU's roster would have been consistent to some degree.
Title: Re: Why do you hate compilations?
Post by: Nep Heart on October 23, 2019, 12:06:14 am
 Yeah, compilations are usually built on favoritism and usually just for the sake of a collection rather than having any actual gameplay merit. It reminds me of the time when someone in the Guild released a Touhou "fullgame" that turned out to simply be a compilation of Touhou characters with drastically different gameplay... the best part is that I found my own Hieda no Akyuu in that compilation. :P

 With that said, it's not necessarily a bad thing in itself considering I have plans to eventually set up a MUGEN build that basically includes all my own characters created under the "generation 1" mechanics (I plan on experimenting with a new gameplay system next year actually an attempt at "generation 2" and thus would need to be in a different compilation), but unlike the conventional compilation, these characters were designed specifically to be balanced towards each other in mind.
Title: Re: Why do you hate compilations?
Post by: Bastard Mami on October 23, 2019, 12:13:31 am
Don't hate the, hate is too strong of a word, but:

I've been wondering this because everywhere I see them being talked about, no-one's ever said anything positive about them.

You said so, people don't talk about them because there is rarely something worth talking about regarding compilations; the most talked about compilatoins, you have to wonder if they are compilations or full games, the first one I think about is kofz, and it's talked about because it's nicely balanced (for a compilation) and it has original content. but for most compilations, what is there to talk about ?
Title: Re: Why do you hate compilations?
Post by: Umezono on October 23, 2019, 02:12:05 am
because theyre not worth playing. you dont need to download someone elses several GB large mugen setup when u can just download your own characters and get the same effect.
Title: Re: Why do you hate compilations?
Post by: 無限の監視者 on October 23, 2019, 02:25:27 am
Not customizable. Not too friendly on filesize. And just not interesting.
Title: Re: Why do you hate compilations?
Post by: The Jaquio on October 23, 2019, 02:29:18 am
I really don't think there is anything wrong with compilations for personal entertainment.  Everyone has there own individual taste, and download mugen characters based on what they like.  When I was first introduced to mugen many years ago, that's pretty much what it was.  People could download mugen, add what characters they wanted, and play it.  If someone had a complete full game that was bug free and available, that was an extremely rare occurrence.  Even now, mugen is 20 years old and you can count on two hands the complete 100% bug free full game releases. 
Title: Re: Why do you hate compilations?
Post by: oraora? on October 23, 2019, 02:33:09 am
I don't really hate compilations. One of the good thing for me is that mostly, I do not need to think of what Mugen game I should compile for myself, I could have simply download it, update it (if there are outdated version of characters) and play it. What I don't like in them is that I have downloaded two compilations back in 2006 or so, those two have edited command such as pressing all three punch buttons, the characters can perform their super move :( doing qcf x2 + P, Kyo does his Orochinagi instead of his usual qcb, qcf + p.
Title: Re: Why do you hate compilations?
Post by: DNZRX768 on October 23, 2019, 03:35:32 am
Everyone pretty much covers it. Why should I download a non-customize-able compilation that is way too large and not really super fun when I can just download characters separately and build my collection and roster to how I like it?

Building your own collection and your own roster is much more fun than downloading a compilation.
Title: Re: Why do you hate compilations?
Post by: XGargoyle on October 23, 2019, 01:41:30 pm
If someone had a complete full game that was bug free and available

LOL
Title: Re: Why do you hate compilations?
Post by: fxfreitas on October 23, 2019, 05:28:38 pm
I don't hate compilations, when the compilator ask permission for the authors or credit them if inactive. When he edit the characters and even stages to play the same, not only throw the shit out on a screenpack, change the portraits and say done...
Compilations are cool when well made, but a shame if not.
"no, I made this, it's all my work".
I really had issues with someone making this in the past.

Even now, mugen is 20 years old and you can count on two hands the complete 100% bug free full game releases.
In those 10 years, I saw only 2 full games with content self made and now working in my own project, I know how hard is to make something like this, we put too much effort, and the result come slowly. And thats for me is one of the issues of a compilation, the guy behind a compilation don't know how hard is, and most simply don't respect the work.
Title: Re: Why do you hate compilations?
Post by: gossh1992 on October 23, 2019, 05:43:59 pm
The thing about compilations is this...

1) Often times, the person is trying to make profit off of what someone else does.
2) The creation in question isn't addressed or even noted in most cases, often times leaving people in the comments to ask "who made that?" or "who is that?"

Inherently, there isn't anything wrong with compilations themselves, but when you create something and don't address what it even is or who made it, then you leave people with more questions than answers, and often times, you don't allow credit to be given to where credit is due.
Title: Re: Why do you hate compilations?
Post by: Nep Heart on October 23, 2019, 09:08:45 pm
100% bug free full game releases. 

 That's quite literally impossible due to the nature of the engine being quite buggy itself. Even the best author can't get around inherit bugs such as the dreaded 1-tick delay bug, all they can do is compensate instead.
Title: Re: Why do you hate compilations?
Post by: Jmorphman on October 24, 2019, 02:16:52 am
a compilation killed my wife
Title: Re: Why do you hate compilations?
Post by: TheFclass97 on October 24, 2019, 03:09:19 am
a compilation killed my wife

you had a wife?
Title: Re: Why do you hate compilations?
Post by: Orochi Gill on October 24, 2019, 03:20:34 am
Compilations burned our crops, poisoned our water supply and delivered a plague onto our houses!!!
Title: Re: Why do you hate compilations?
Post by: CinderFallFan on October 24, 2019, 03:22:12 am
Compilations burned our crops, poisoned our water supply and delivered a plague onto our houses!!!

They did?
Title: Re: Why do you hate compilations?
Post by: Orochi Gill on October 24, 2019, 03:35:55 am
No, but are we just going to stand around until they do???
Title: Re: Why do you hate compilations?
Post by: CinderFallFan on October 24, 2019, 03:40:56 am
No, but are we just going to stand around until they do???

I say, we get the lifeguard!!
Title: Re: Why do you hate compilations?
Post by: Roman55 on October 24, 2019, 04:01:47 am
My pa always warned me bout da Compilations. Always said never to step out at night cuz dey could get ya fer der organ harvestin.
Title: Re: Why do you hate compilations?
Post by: TiE on October 24, 2019, 07:06:09 am
Compilations are okay for starters, I'd say.
If you don't have a real idea what mugen is, a compilation can get you on the way and help you understand the basic setup of a roster.

Doing a compilation can be tedious. Everybody who fills a bigger roster knows. Tweaking composing, finding fitting stuff, etc.
But for me this also bears the problem.
Your "best of the best" might be my "crap - at best".
So in the end your roster is a compilation, too.

People who are frequently active on a forum usually do the composing part themselves.
Others, who make profit or just want an "all in one" collection don't give a damn and soon vanish after their threads and whining about having no time and not being good at this stuff get ignored.

I don't hate compilations. Just the idiots compiling those for fame and glory which is not theirs to take at all.

The rest has been said better than I could.



Title: Re: Why do you hate compilations?
Post by: GOH on October 30, 2019, 06:37:41 pm
The real question here is

why must we suffer
Title: Re: Why do you hate compilations?
Post by: Neo_Fire_Sonic on October 30, 2019, 07:27:57 pm


Compilations are a bitch ass motherfucker, they pissed on my wife
Title: Re: Why do you hate compilations?
Post by: PeXXeR on October 31, 2019, 01:24:27 am
You have to have waay to much time on your hands to be annoyed with mugen in general let-alone someones comp lol.
I or anyone else for that matter can use what we want, fuck off.

I have my pots build if you will, but fuck me there's more stuff I want to use and have fun with.
An example for this would D-cat's TMNT chars, they don't fit in my pots build but if I have an all out mugen I'll defo use them.

Raaja's SF3, Z2, some kof chars I like, jojo stuff etc.
Lots of quality stuff for people to use. You cant blame anyone for having a comp.
Title: Re: Why do you hate compilations?
Post by: MaligeX on October 31, 2019, 03:48:43 am
I don't hate compilations, it's an interesting way to adquire Some unknown creations at the moment and good source material untouched.

I hate when users profit with those games and i hate the most when they are unoptimized throwing all components as it, like general sparks aembeded on the motif and every character having it's own sparks included also.

Untouched material compilations vs unoptimized games as compilations.
Title: Re: Why do you hate compilations?
Post by: Basara Lapis on November 04, 2019, 07:47:50 pm
I love compilations...






...the ones I made by myself, of course...







...especially with my own chars XD
Title: Re: Why do you hate compilations?
Post by: Slayer. on November 04, 2019, 08:17:51 pm
Two reasons:
- The guy literally does nothing but put together stages/chars/screenpack - "Hi guys. Look at MY game."
- Make a profit from the work of others.
Title: Re: Why do you hate compilations?
Post by: PIZZAHIGHFIVE on November 04, 2019, 09:19:05 pm
Compilations to some are great cause many chars are amazingly made already and maybe its already what you'd want and that's ok.  But there's no point to HATE them or the people who do like em. But I completely agree with that person being totally wrong if he started saying "Look at MY GAME I MADE" then yes I'd be like "No you didin't you just compiled that in day."  A compilation just means you compiled something and that's it. 

It's only "Your game" if you made absolutely everything yourself.

To me, It's also ok to call it your "build" when it's a massive overhaul.  Like you actually customized almost everything, screenpack, select screens, intros, all on photoshop creating images and artwork. Giving all chars brand new edits (from lets say Mouser's chars) whether they be new sprites, new moves, new animations, new everything and adding brand new stages etc.  Like actually adding brand new custom content that you made, taking months even years to finish a build... downloading chars in putting them in a def file doesn't count as you making anything.

 But i see nothing wrong with using existing work for bases, as long as you never lie and tell people that it is all done by you alone and you credit everyone and thank everyone and shout out to them.  Even if your shout out is a 10 page read me file it's still respectable and necessary to credit everyone for the right reasons.


To be honest I don't get the people who make mugens TOTALLY from scratch... like why don't you just make your own game on Unity or Cocos2DX and actually get paid forreal if you gonna do ALL the work from the ground up like that?   That's a lot of labor, you gonna wanna get paid..



Title: Re: Why do you hate compilations?
Post by: Azul Crescent on November 07, 2019, 02:21:05 am
I have my own "compilation" project that i've been working on, but I've done more than put characters and stages and shit in.

I edit all the stages, the characters sprites, modify the screenpacks myself. I don't plan on ever really publicly sharing it. As getting permission from dozens upon dozens of authors for proper publication is impossible (especially since alot of those are foreign authors from Chinese/Japanese sites).

And i've discovered some rare Chinese/Japanese created stages/characters in compilations that I've found scattered across the net on foreign sites. Foreign Mugen boards are much more open to releasing compilations, Baidu has it's own dedicated page with some really nice ones. But they're hard to download due to them being pan.baidu links.

I feel like, compilations would be more well received if people put more effort into them than just "Adding stages and characters and claiming it as THEIR game"

It's not YOUR game, it's something you put together sure, but they're other peoples works. If you edit everything to certain extents, than at best they are "edits".
Title: Re: Why do you hate compilations?
Post by: vgma2 on November 07, 2019, 09:44:49 am
^This is my major problem with compilations.  Many of them are a mish mash of various authors' content that it becomes a jumbled mess.  It honestly grinds my gears when the compilation creator proceeds to say something like "Hey guys!  I made a Mugen game!  Check it out!"

Not to mention the bad name compilations tends to give Mugen as a whole.  Many people outside of the community often only know Mugen through poorly made compilations and skews their impression of the engine.

That brings me to another point where some people complain about Mugen as a whole because it has broken or dumb shit.  Like what the fuck, don't download it into your roster then?  Nothing's stopping them from excluding those characters, but people whose only hands on exposure to Mugen is through compilations wouldn't have learned that.

Call me an elitist, but I honestly think people should just construct one's own personal compilation from scratch, starting from the base roster of Kung Fu Man, and working their way up to a full personalized roster of characters, stages, and various motifs segments.  You learn a lot more about how to work with configuring things on your own that way.
Title: Re: Why do you hate compilations?
Post by: Azul Crescent on November 08, 2019, 05:32:52 am
^This is my major problem with compilations.  Many of them are a mish mash of various authors' content that it becomes a jumbled mess.  It honestly grinds my gears when the compilation creator proceeds to say something like "Hey guys!  I made a Mugen game!  Check it out!"

Not to mention the bad name compilations tends to give Mugen as a whole.  Many people outside of the community often only know Mugen through poorly made compilations and skews their impression of the engine.

That brings me to another point where some people complain about Mugen as a whole because it has broken or dumb shit.  Like what the fuck, don't download it into your roster then?  Nothing's stopping them from excluding those characters, but people whose only hands on exposure to Mugen is through compilations wouldn't have learned that.

Call me an elitist, but I honestly think people should just construct one's own personal compilation from scratch, starting from the base roster of Kung Fu Man, and working their way up to a full personalized roster of characters, stages, and various motifs segments.  You learn a lot more about how to work with configuring things on your own that way.

Exactly this. So many compilations ive tried just to look for new stages etc, are really bad. Unbalanced rosters (mixture of normal and OP characters), bad stages, different sized characters etc. No effort at all.

When I try to talk to my friends about Mugen and introduce them to it, the typical response is "Oh that shitty fighting game ripoff with crappy characters?" It's really disheartening.

Alot of people can't be bothered with actually assembling their own Mugen, they'd much rather be lazy and just use a pre-made mugen, even if it's bad. Building your own from scratch is extremely fulfilling. Especially if you personalize it. I use characters with the niceset looking sprites, smoothest flowing gameplay and least amount of problems. And trust me, those are NOT easy to find. I've been changing up my roster for over 2 years since I started seriously building a proper Mugen. Because new characters, stages and screenpacks come out. Ever since I did, i've learned alot of about mugen coding. From how to modify certain things in characters and how to edit stages properties etc, even how to change up lifebars and screenpacks myself.

I don't create any real content for Mugen, the only things I can really do are portraits, but I'm really proud of my personal Mugen.

Mugen deserves a much better rep than it does, and as vgma2 said, it's bad compilations and crappy god characters that give it that bad rep. And...also some people in it's community...but that's a whole 'nother discussion.