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Really trying to get into basics - Need some help (Read 963 times)

Started by KarmaCharmeleon, March 30, 2019, 11:38:35 pm
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KarmaCharmeleon

Really trying to get into basics - Need some help
#1  March 30, 2019, 11:38:35 pm
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So I'm trying to build a character but I would like to get some tips regarding getting data from the source games. I downloaded MAME-RR and used a LUA script to see the hitboxes. A couple of questions regarding this:

* Is there a way to rip the hitboxes in an AIR format or something that can be posted as codes? Right now I use paint to see where the boxes are placed in relation to the sprites, but this is too time consuming and doesn't garantee that I get 100% accurate hitboxes.
* The game is SamSho V Special. I don't know if it is because the game has zoom or something, but the 320x240 shows slightly bigger sprites compared to the real ones. Example:

In the case I cannot rip any numerical data that can be converted, is there any way to visualize the sprites and hitboxes in the real resolution?
* I would also like to ask if there is any way to rip data about the ticks of the animations on the source game. I get that I could record a video at 60 fps and crack the timings, but there must be an easir way to this.
* My last question is somewhat related. Since SamSho V Special is a game with camera zoom is gonna be a little bit hard to test the velocities on the animations. Is there any way to rip the data regarding that so not only I can get something functional but also one hundred percent loyal to the source?

Thanks

Bannana

Re: Really trying to get into basics - Need some help
#2  March 31, 2019, 04:01:03 am
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Can't answer all of them, but I can help with the last.
Are you using cheat engine?

You can lock the zoom (not perfectly, some games will jitter) and the scroll so that everything stays within the current screen space. It depends on the game, I don't know where they would store it in all neo geo games (I do know that in Hyper Neo Geo 64 games it's a float, but it can be a 4 byte integer as well). When I was building a tables for Last Blade 2 and Garou I believe it was a 4 byte integer, but I'm away from my computer right now and can't say for sure.

Edit:
Took some time to look around into special and I've seen some results with 2 byte, but it might be a lot of work so you can also find the x position and just lock it so you can get the velocities without moving. That's a bit easier to find, it's usually 2 or 4 byte.
Last Edit: March 31, 2019, 05:10:31 am by Bannana

Vans

Re: Really trying to get into basics - Need some help
#3  March 31, 2019, 05:38:59 am
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The NeoGeo native resolution is 320x224 not 320x240. I think this might explain your size problem.

Cyanide

Re: Really trying to get into basics - Need some help
#4  March 31, 2019, 09:14:40 am
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Many emulators have frame step. I find i use multiple emulators when creating. Kawaks has a neat record match function which makes counting frames easier. Mamerr for the lua stuff. Various ones give different features to work with.

Forget mames step. Shift+p maybe?

Edit: although i think there are some coded methods of hitbox extraction to air file (ive been out of the loop) you can always rip the hitbox frames and halfass them into your sff. FFs onion skin in the air file lets you show those sprites and draw over the top. Its really slow but it is accurate


In M.U.G.E.N there is no magic button

They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance.

KarmaCharmeleon

Re: Really trying to get into basics - Need some help
#5  March 31, 2019, 12:25:38 pm
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  • In a few minutes, bitch
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Bannana said, March 31, 2019, 04:01:03 am
Can't answer all of them, but I can help with the last.
Are you using cheat engine?

I'm not, I didn't even know that Cheat Engine could be used for things like this.

Bannana said, March 31, 2019, 04:01:03 am
You can lock the zoom (not perfectly, some games will jitter) and the scroll so that everything stays within the current screen space. It depends on the game, I don't know where they would store it in all neo geo games (I do know that in Hyper Neo Geo 64 games it's a float, but it can be a 4 byte integer as well). When I was building a tables for Last Blade 2 and Garou I believe it was a 4 byte integer, but I'm away from my computer right now and can't say for sure.

Edit:
Took some time to look around into special and I've seen some results with 2 byte, but it might be a lot of work so you can also find the x position and just lock it so you can get the velocities without moving. That's a bit easier to find, it's usually 2 or 4 byte.
I have to be honest, I really don't understand. Is there any tutorial for dummies regarding this?

Vans said, March 31, 2019, 05:38:59 am
The NeoGeo native resolution is 320x224 not 320x240. I think this might explain your size problem.

I think it does but shouldnt the sprites be smaller if I'm playing in an emulator of 320x240?

EDIT: Nevermind, I'm dumb. I get it.

Cyanide said, March 31, 2019, 09:14:40 am
Many emulators have frame step. I find i use multiple emulators when creating. Kawaks has a neat record match function which makes counting frames easier. Mamerr for the lua stuff. Various ones give different features to work with.

Forget mames step. Shift+p maybe?

Edit: although i think there are some coded methods of hitbox extraction to air file (ive been out of the loop) you can always rip the hitbox frames and halfass them into your sff. FFs onion skin in the air file lets you show those sprites and draw over the top. Its really slow but it is accurate

I'll look into Kawaks, will try with Mame but I'll have that in mind. And nice tip the onion skin one
EDIT: Looked into WinKawaks. Excelent tool! Got many animation timings already. Don't really know how can I time near basics since you are guarantee to hit the oponent and I think that the hitpauses mess up the animation timings. But I already thank you a lot, Cyanide.

Thank you all for helping. Getting more and more familiar with FF at least.
Last Edit: March 31, 2019, 05:34:03 pm by KarmaChameleon

Bannana

Re: Really trying to get into basics - Need some help
#6  March 31, 2019, 09:08:47 pm
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A lot of the great introductory tutorials are for artmoney, but cheat engine works almost exactly the same with the exception of layout and some miscellaneous features
Vans' tutorial is a good starter and JNP's is more in depth
http://www.vans.trinitymugen.net/home/notes-artmoney.html
http://mugenguild.com/forum/topics/lets-make-an-interactive-artmoney-tutorial-yay-28777.0.html

and then there was a specific cheat engine thread, but it's not so much a tutorial as much as "what can cheat engine do better"
http://mugenguild.com/forum/topics/artmoney-is-obsolete-cheatengine-is-future-now-mvc2-cvs2-hitboxes-168145.0.html

Cyanide

Re: Really trying to get into basics - Need some help
#7  April 01, 2019, 10:14:02 am
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  • Legendary XIII
  • I am the eye of the storm to come!
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The trick for near basics is to use the ability to position p2. Either put him above but close. Or start the attack and then reposition him further away. Samsho may also have a sprite viewer with the debug options like kof does. Would be worth a look


In M.U.G.E.N there is no magic button

They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance.
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