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King of Fighters E blog (Read 1261112 times)

Started by swipergod, November 14, 2007, 02:53:22 am
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swipergod

Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
#301  July 05, 2008, 09:51:10 pm
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Indeed these things mentioned by all of you are things that I can't say I've had much feedback on because only [E] has given my game in depth testing/feedback, while taking the goal of the project into consideration.  Most people just ask me why I took out move X replaced move Y, which is mainly based off of their personal prefs and how they'd like to play the character.  I would agree though that there's a lot of personal pref that goes into something like this because it is a lot of work and you don't want to do it twice over (your way and the exact way).

If you look at KOF'98 vs KOF'98 UM, it seems like more moves have been added than removed.  I haven't played UM yet to see how that'll affect balance, but I'm floating on the same kind of principle.  For characters who have a few moves (Ash), I plan to give them more, while characters with so many might find their movelist a tad shorter.  Observant people will notice the gameplay itself does lend itself slightly towards a KOF98, SFA2 mix due to the DM system, where there is no POW meter and not EXTRA style charging.  Just a 3 level raising stock.  That was intentional.  I did it because I love the unpredictability vs a POW style giveaway.  Things like that scream personal pref and do point towards the game being something a little different that your typical KOF game.

All that said, I would like it if Iori's walk velocities, fireball velocities and the sort were game accurate.  Absolutely.  And Leon Belmont, I would appreciate any help with the stuff you've mention.  I think what I'll do is finish the last 2 characters of this wave (Yuri and Kyo) and combo systems and then step back and take a look into making the accuracy adjustments that I'm capable of.  Probably a month and a bit away, but if you're still willing to help, I'll contact you.

[E] which techniques are you referring to and in regards to what exactly.  Vels or rips?

I a lot of respect for [E], but I also have a lot of respect for you Sander and actually feel somewhat honored that you posted here.  Yours are some of the first characters I downloaded when I first got into Mugen.  While I'd love to hear your feedback, I'd hesitate to give you a current build of some of the characters because I still need to implement some of the improvements brought up during the last beta test (namely the combo system fix among a couple others).  Although that said, since your Terry and Chizuru were base models for the ones found in my game, they are at your full disposal here:

http://files.filefront.com/Terry+Koferar/;10937024;/fileinfo.html
http://files.filefront.com/Chizuru+Koferar/;10936993;/fileinfo.html

Have to warn you though, Vans hated what I did to your version of Terry, so a heads up.

Dark Symphony, I will have to disagree with you on one point.  I don't like luring people in with flash, coolness etc... because when they play it and find it hard/impossible to do moves they saw in the videos it's a big turn off.  I'm not big on say luring someone into SF2 cause they thought Zangief was so cool, but end up only using Ryu and Ken cause Zangief's too hard to use.  I want to encourage people to use Angel or Jhun cause they look cool, have cool moves and hey, you can do 'em.  The depth of any game I believe is how skillfully you use the moves at your disposal not how many stances you've got or how fancied up a move is with multiple follow ups.  Plus this is KOF, so you should readily be able to use 4 characters in the case of 4 on 4 team battle.  If you devote all your time to one or two, it makes that type of fight less interesting cause then the other 2 on your team become "fillers" instead of fights.  And can you imagine going through 4 fights like that with opponent using the same 4 over and over again.  That's a yawn for me.

I'm hoping actual testing with people who use combos systems in fights will tell me if my Chain systems are broken or energy sappers.  In this department, my skill is minimal so I'll be looking to others for help.  I don't think you're being hard.  If you see some past posts on the release forum, those were rough.  You're just offering your own fighting game experiences and that's always welcome.  I may take a breather after the 1/2 point to try my hands at something none KOFE related.  In cases like that collaboration is always good.

Thanks a bunch everyone.
New KOFE website is up.  Go visit it for all your KOFE needs:

https://mugenkofe.wixsite.com/info

Dark Symphony

Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
#302  July 07, 2008, 08:30:07 am
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sander said, July 05, 2008, 08:19:30 pm
Based on your reply, I can tell that this project is more based on how you "feel" rather than putting in hardwork to get the numbers right.  The easy route is to say "this feels better, animation is smoother, you are missing the boat here, SNK should have done it my way etc.."  The hard route which only a few follow is keeping true to the game, to try to get the "real feel" of the game by getting the numbers down. 

Looking at some of the feedback that was given here, I can see that getting accurate KOF data now is a lot more simpler than back in the days when I was still active.  I haven't even heard of some of the tools they are mentioning.

I guess it depends on your goal - are you aiming to create a MUGEN KOF game that has solid KOF gameplay with extended roster?  Or are you aiming to have a KOF game that fits your tastes (and a few others here that give you feedback)?.   Or maybe you want a KOF game that fits your tastes but has solid KOF gameplay?

Your project is still young and has lots of potential.  Just showing you your options.  Personally I would say that  you get the accuracy down FIRST, then move on with tweaking stuff to your liking (though if you tweak I still  :'(), but that's just silly old me.

Again good luck, sorry if I can't beta test / download cause the game is too big... if you can get some characters available for download maybe I can check em out.  Though it maybe months again before I post here :P, or not depending on how bored I am.



Well... it's already MUGEN. It's already NOT a KOF. I don't think accuracy is that big of a deal. The KOF games themselves change things between games. When MI came out, you had a totally different ball game with hit properties and priorities. Same with CVS. Same with KOF characters who come from other games and have different feels. Same with characters between SVC Chayous and NGBC.

Some games (guilty gear) have longer hit pauses than the average. Others have faster moves than the average. It all changes game to game. In my opinion, there is no "right" way as long as it's consistent and works good. I don't need Iori's cr. b to be EXACTLY like it was in KOF. I could always, you know.... go play KOF.

Dark Symphony

Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
#303  July 07, 2008, 08:38:19 am
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swipergod said, July 05, 2008, 09:51:10 pm

Dark Symphony, I will have to disagree with you on one point.  I don't like luring people in with flash, coolness etc... because when they play it and find it hard/impossible to do moves they saw in the videos it's a big turn off.  I'm not big on say luring someone into SF2 cause they thought Zangief was so cool, but end up only using Ryu and Ken cause Zangief's too hard to use.  I want to encourage people to use Angel or Jhun cause they look cool, have cool moves and hey, you can do 'em.  The depth of any game I believe is how skillfully you use the moves at your disposal not how many stances you've got or how fancied up a move is with multiple follow ups.  Plus this is KOF, so you should readily be able to use 4 characters in the case of 4 on 4 team battle.  If you devote all your time to one or two, it makes that type of fight less interesting cause then the other 2 on your team become "fillers" instead of fights.  And can you imagine going through 4 fights like that with opponent using the same 4 over and over again.  That's a yawn for me.

I'm hoping actual testing with people who use combos systems in fights will tell me if my Chain systems are broken or energy sappers.  In this department, my skill is minimal so I'll be looking to others for help.  I don't think you're being hard.  If you see some past posts on the release forum, those were rough.  You're just offering your own fighting game experiences and that's always welcome.  I may take a breather after the 1/2 point to try my hands at something none KOFE related.  In cases like that collaboration is always good.

Thanks a bunch everyone.


I think you misunderstood. I'm not saying lure them in with flash and then give them a hard game. I'm saying leave things in for people who want depth and those who don't give them flash and cool. That's just the way it goes. If you see a feature that's too complex in your opinion, try to simplify it rather than remove it. People who get into your game are going to be looking for more challenging things as they get into it. They don't have to be HARD> They just have to be there.

Zangief's 360 is stupid. I hate 360's. My approach, however, would not be to remove it because it's hard or tricky. I'd simply simplify the motion. Now the players who base their game around getting in and getting the throw still can and newer players can practice application more than execution.

I'm just saying that little things like stances or sways can spice up a game a little bit and give someone something to diversify themselves with. You should also allow players to decide whether or not they want to take time to do things. Artificially encouraging them to learn X amount of characters with anything beyond the number of characters in their team is going outside the scope of what a developer should be doing.

Also don't forget that this is someone else's baby. You remove Jhun's stances and people will notice. To some, it'd be like removing Zangief's pile driver or Ryu's hadouken. I, myself, wonder if you are not for things like stances, why put a stance based character in the game?

Why not just make them simpler to use if you think they're too tricky?


When will you release Vanessa and Jhun, by the by?

swipergod

Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
#304  July 07, 2008, 09:12:29 am
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Missfairy's been pretty busy I guess.  She's only at 50% with Vanessa, so I haven't even sent her Jhun yet.  I may have missed this, but do you have the full game DS?

I understand where you're coming from.  I think the stance play style for me is off.  I don't like being forced to do one move in order to do the actual move I want to connect with.  Best marked under personal pref with a hint of balance.  We'll see if Jhun can cope with the loss.  Here, the leg slashes are instantaneous, but can be delayed for "mindgames", they give good projectile like range to his attack and can be comboed into.  His other sweep projectile works differently.  It can't be combo'ed into, but is a combo starter, it can banish fireballs and the delay in the hit is great for screwing up attacking and rolling opponents.  Just cause I remove something, doesn't mean I don't try to add something else.

Should note though that these "rules" and "programming choices" I follow are for KOFE only.  During my KOFE break, I'm planning to do a revamp of the psycho weapon Cammy that doesn't play like MVC on steroids and has a few less supers (ie more SFZ Cammy-ish).  That'll be a totally different philosophy cause I'll be focused on the character and not a game that demands balance (so she won't be playing like KOFE either).  Should be fun.  Still don't know what to do with her entirely yet, but I've already converted all the missing Cammy sprites in her SFF to the Delta form.  Cammy is my favorite gaming character ever, so when the time comes, hopefully I won't butcher her.
New KOFE website is up.  Go visit it for all your KOFE needs:

https://mugenkofe.wixsite.com/info

swipergod

Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
#305  July 07, 2008, 09:24:29 am
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For all those people who tout 100% KOF accuracy, I would just like to show you this from the brand new KOF 98 UM:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=y_uUAo7XmDE

Now that's disgusting.  I'm all for accurate collisions, axises and vels, but there's no way I'd allow something like that massacre into my game willingly even if it's an official combo.  When I say balance, part of it includes trying to avoid stuff like this by removing cancels, pow damage, juggle you all day long values, even if it means toning down/butchering (depending how you look at it) some characters in the process.  There are more 100% combos on youtube, but this one didn't seem to need an awkward startup. 

New KOFE website is up.  Go visit it for all your KOFE needs:

https://mugenkofe.wixsite.com/info

Leon Belmont

Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
#306  July 07, 2008, 11:27:42 am
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Make everything accurate, when an infinite comes around; get around it. That's it. Plus, you weren't going to have anything like MAX mode in this game anyway?

Characters don't need a huge tone down just because of something like that.

Vanessa had an infinite in XI, but that doesn't stop Kula, Gato or Oswald from wiping the floor with her.

sander

Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
#307  July 07, 2008, 05:10:40 pm
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"For all those people who tout 100% KOF accuracy" - wanted to stay off this topic but I couldn't resist the urge to reply - just so you get WHY people bug you for accuracy - last effort :P. 

Some facts:
- Infinites and other bugs have been found in almost every KOF release.
- SNK games are not perfect, yep not even KOF.
- Even if there are infinites, and even if some would say SNK suck, I believe that there is no MUGEN creator or MUGEN editor of existing works around here that can make a better "KOF game or character".
- Which goes back to me pleading that you still stick with the basics and good stuff and try and keep away from the imperfections.

"but there's no way I'd allow something like that massacre into my game willingly even if it's an official combo."

Releasing statements like this is bad, I'm sure SNK felt the same way about juggles/infinites, until some smart aleck cracks one or some lousy programmer lets one slip.  If you have the likes of K_Kusanag combo testing your character - guys that always seems to find some impossible juggles and pull them off - you will understand what I mean.


Edit:
After seeing the 98UM videos - I suggest you totally disregard that game o_O;  too many 100% combos there. >.<




Last Edit: July 07, 2008, 05:15:20 pm by sander

swipergod

Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
#308  July 08, 2008, 03:55:52 am
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Agreed, agreed.  That's kinda the idea here.  Staying away from the imperfections.  Just giving a little picture and having a bit of fun with it at the same time (couldn't resist after I saw those videos).  That's what I mean by 100%, cause then we're not really going for 100% when we start leaving stuff out right.

No need to put any effort in convincing me about other accuracies like axises, clsns and vels.  I've been sold since I started and will try my best to fix what I can.

Thing with SNK characters is that there's so many variations for some that it becomes hard to pick which, moves/version to go with at times.

I don't claim to be SNK and I love their stuff more than pretty much anything else out there, but sometimes, despite the fact that their SNK, I still find myself shaking my head at their choices.  See Krauser RBS vs Krauser '96.  Felt like RBS was the best feeling Krauser out there with moves that seemed to suit him very well.  Krauser '96 felt like a mockery, like SNK was turning him into a joke character.  I don't apologize for this comment as it's simply my opinion.  So given the choice, I'd much rather try to do a Krauser '96 with RBS moves than a Krauser '96 with '96 moves, despite inaccuracies that may come up.  That character may not meet SNK standards, but if even if another Mugen creator else made him and did a fantastic job of converting his '96 sprites to RBS, I'd be a very happy fan and in that case, would say that they made a better Krauser than the '96 version that's out there.  That's just me though.  And yes, I'm happy '98 UM Krauser has a lot more RBS style moves.  That said, I'd also say that there are some Mugen version of characters that I find just as fun to play as to play as, as their real counterparts, if not more.  In the end, having a good time playing the game is all that matters.  That's my take at least.

If Mugen could go online, I'd be far more sticky in terms of accuracies, because then my game could possibly be used competitively and that's when ever detail counts for sure.  And I use the term "my game" to differentiate between the KOFE characters and their original Mugen/official counterparts.  It's not meant to be disrespectful or to claim that I am the new SNK.  Not even close.  It's just to point out a game that uses play mechanics I've settled upon.  When you think about it, everything in KOFE is owned by SNK save the Mugen engine itself, and that's the way I like it. :)


New KOFE website is up.  Go visit it for all your KOFE needs:

https://mugenkofe.wixsite.com/info

Dark Symphony

Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
#309  July 08, 2008, 08:33:01 pm
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I guess we differ. I am not bothered by having to do one move to do another. It's no different than any chain punch series with Kyo or Iorip's QCB+p series. Just more options. I always wanted to see a Jhun based around active stance changing (like how he could stance out of wk Mangetsuzan). I don't think blatant stance changing for the sake of it is the way to go. Imagine if he could do his conquest kick into a stance that gives him a quick high or slow low option. It's really not much different than Kyo doing a punch special into canned mixup only the Jhun player has a couple more options at the expense of canned payoffs.

I don't know. It's just me.


As far as that video link you made... you CAN'T do it. You just can't. Things like that aren't done on purpose. 98UM has so mnay 100%ers because they added so much with the characters and custom modes. You can only do so much playtesting. That's why there are so many SF2s and Guilty Gears and Tekken 5's. Because the player base is the harshest and most efficient play testers you'll ever get. And they WILL find things. Trust me. It will happen with your game to.

The smallest thing could end up being the biggest. Do you think the Terry extra mode infinite was intentional? Of course not. And how in the world would you find that while making a game? Would would think to go into Extra mode, do a power charge and then do a quick attack and cancel into thep ower charge to override the juggle check...

Vanessa's infinite in XI was simply possible because a move was used to hit in a way the devs never intended it too. The last tip of the hellion. The Devs made the move thinking' This "this will hit twice and the juggle checks will keep it from being comboed into infinitely." It took a player to set up the juggle infinte. That's why most infinites (outside SVC Chayous) have such weird  set ups. They're all about breaking the game open.

Luckily for you, you can just fix it. But you've already had to fix things. Imagine if you had to have it released by the end of this month and after that, no more fixes. Yipes!

swipergod

Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
#310  July 09, 2008, 03:56:04 am
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Well, hopefully as the project gains more steam, more people will test and find more glitches/give more gameplay feedback.  As [E] and I discussed earlier, the juggling system Mugen uses has some problems that may not be avoidable, but I'm sure there's plenty of other stuff to fix.

So far the project's been downloaded 1200.  Considering how big the file was, I'd say that's over double my highest expectations.

Got me thinking; once I've hit the 1/2 way mark, I might be interested in porting the project to Shugendo.  Has anyone here have any insight on this.  I haven't had a chance to test it yet, and my stupid Intel Video card is picky when it comes to programs requiring pixel shading, so I worry a bit.  Seems to be the only alternate engine still in progress with potential networking capabilities.  Is it too early?  Anybody willing to share their experiences with that system.  I'm also kinda skeptical cause I wouldn't want to port it and then it dies out like Infinitycat did (at least that's the assumption at the moment).

Yuri progresses slowly.  Since I'm ripping a good chunk of the sprites here, the progress is crawling.  I'd say I'm at about 35%.  Few basics to rip to go and a few sprites to convert (using her 2k1 intro for the non-leap in, but the shoes are the crappy ones).  Might try to convert a few 2k3 ones to '99, but that depends on how far my skills can go.  She *might* be finished next week.  Kyo will take even longer.  I may take a break and do Kula in between.  Re-conceptualized her movelist so I no longer need the Diana "kill" sprites.
New KOFE website is up.  Go visit it for all your KOFE needs:

https://mugenkofe.wixsite.com/info
Last Edit: July 09, 2008, 05:55:43 pm by swipergod

Bastard Mami

Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
#311  July 09, 2008, 04:55:00 pm
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swipergod said, July 09, 2008, 03:56:04 am
Well, hopefully as the project gains more steam, more people will test and find more glitches/give more gameplay feedback.  As [E] and I discussed earlier, the juggling system Mugen uses has some problems that may not be avoidable, but I'm sure there's plenty of other stuff to fix.

Just do away with mugen's juggle system.

I will post more info later in kof style ground to air and juggling, probably including code.

swipergod

Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
#312  July 09, 2008, 05:52:46 pm
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That would be most appreciated, o helpful one.
New KOFE website is up.  Go visit it for all your KOFE needs:

https://mugenkofe.wixsite.com/info

Bastard Mami

Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
#313  July 09, 2008, 07:16:38 pm
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Ok, first you have to pay special attention to air recovery and whether it is allowed or not, if my memory serves me right you will use a fall.recover value of 6 ticks. All basic attacks allow for air recovery, all dir +button or special attacks don't; projectiles have to be handled case by case.

You will need to edit the air recovery states so they are automatic, no extra velocities are applyed and you don't recover control while in the air, in kof you won't recover control until you land, while air recovering you can be hit by anything, it's just a matter of juggling.

Juggling is a more complex matter, I will explain the basics first, note that this is not the exact way it works, as helpers in some kof versions create some exceptions, but I am pretty sure it aproximates it rather well.

To juggle someone in kof you have to launch him in the air; The amount of juggle points you get depends on two factors, the first one is which attack you used to launch the oponent and the second one is if you got a counter hit. The juggle points will decrease automatically one unit per tick and once they reach 0 most attacks can't juggle. Also, juggle wise, you have 3 types of attacks; attacks that require at least one juggle point to juggle (the majority), attacks that can't juggle (mostly the launchers) and attacks that will always juggle (normally just one per char, though there are chars that don't have those types of attacks and there are chars that have more than one).

The way i found to code this in mugen is the next.

1. Make all your attacks require 10 juggle points.

[Statedef 210]
Type          = S
MoveType      = A
Physics       = S
Ctrl          = 0
PowerAdd       = 0
Juggle        = 10
FaceP2          = 1
HitDefPersist       = 0
MoveHitPersist       = 0
HitCountPersist    = 0
SprPriority       = 2


2. In your cns file give your character only 8 juggle points.

;
;
[Data]
;

Life          = 1000
Power          = 3000
Attack          = 90
Defence       = 80
Fall.Defence_Up    = 0
Liedown.Time       = 10
AirJuggle       = 8
SparkNo       = 0,7
Guard.SparkNo       = 0,20
KO.Echo       = 0
Volume          = 0
IntPersistIndex    = 0
FloatPersistIndex    = 0

a) what you have achieved now is that your character can juggle properly if p3 launches p2, but he won't be able to juggle at all if he launches p2, no problem, there is more to this code, but first.
* mugen has a bug in which you can't even do ground combos if you don't have juggle points, so you want to put in st-2 an assertspecial with nojugglecheck if enemynear, statetype !=A; to allow for regular ground combos.


;
;
;to allow ground combos

[State -2, ground combos]
type       = AssertSpecial
triggerall    = NumTarget
trigger1    = Target,StateType != A
flag          = NoJuggleCheck



3. make sure to have  section of the cns for st-2 and juggling system, as you can put most of the juggle code in there to make it easier to edit amongst several characters.

4 After we have taken care of the bug we reserve a var to act as the juggle points , in this case var16, since kof always counts down on the juggle points as long as you have some, we decrease one unit per tick.

;
;
;    Kof Style Juggle System
;

[State -2, juggle decreasing]
type = varSet
trigger1 = var(16)>0
var(16) = var(16)-1
ignorehitpause = 0

5. Now, we have to set the juggle points depending on which attack is hitting the oponent and counter conditions, I suggest to use several sctrls instead of trying to optimize and make the code hard to read, Though using a simple ifelse expression for counter hit checking should be pretty easy to understand, my counter hit check var is var(15), if it is 1 I got a counter hit.

;

[State -2, juggle set basics]
type       = varSet
triggerall    = movehit = 1
trigger1    = stateno = [200,999]
var(16)       = ifelse(var(15) = 1,6,0)

Basic attacks normally do not let you juggle afterwards, but if you get a counter hit you are allowed to juggle for about 6 ticks.


[State -2, juggle set CD]
type       = varSet
triggerall    = movehit = 1
trigger1    = stateno = 1350
trigger2    = stateno = 1360
var(16) = ifelse(var(15) = 1,60,0)

In this case I check for both standing and jumping CD, since both give you the same juggling points, no juggle if you hit normally, and a second if you get a counter hit (actually the 60 ticks value here is wrong, you can either try to count ticks in the game or play around with the value until you get the proper feeling/value)


[State -2, juggle set powercharge98 ]
type = varSet
triggerall = movehit = 1
trigger1 = stateno = 4300
trigger2 = stateno = 4310
var(16) = ifelse(var(15) = 1,120,12)

This is a very interesting case, pretty similar to the B shikikai case, in kof98 terry's power charge can only be followed up by a jumping attack or a cancelled raising tackle, but if you get a counter hit you can even do a ground attack or power geyser as a follow up (again, play with the actual values to get a proper feeling).

[State -2, juggle set powercharge97 ]
type = varSet
triggerall = movehit = 1
trigger1 = stateno = 4400
trigger2 = stateno = 4410
var(16) = 120

And this is a simple launcher case, like kyo's D shikikai you can always juggle with pretty much everything after this move hits, regardless of getting a counter or not.

Note that it does not matter if the juggle var last until-after the p2 hits the ground, after all it will be reset once you launch p2 again.

6. Now that we have set our juggle points properly, we just need to add the juggle checks, depending on the attack being used we have three categories so this is just a list.

;
;
;juggle checking rutine, there is some stuff that never juggles

;
;
;to allow ground combos

[State -2, ground combos]
type       = AssertSpecial
triggerall    = NumTarget
trigger1    = Target,StateType != A
flag          = NoJuggleCheck

See the note in point 2a.


[State -2, juggle checking regular stuff]
type       = AssertSpecial
triggerall    = var(16) > 0
trigger1    = stateno = [200,999]
trigger2    = stateno = 1350
trigger3    = stateno = 1360
flag          = NoJuggleCheck

This is a list that includes pretty much most attacks.

[State -2, juggle checking always juggle]
type       = AssertSpecial
trigger1    = stateno = 1500
flag          = NoJuggleCheck

1500 would be a move that always juggle, somethignlike oswald or kula's ldms in kof xi, beni's sdm in kof2001, mary rpd follow up in kof 97 amongst other stuff.

stuff that never juggles is simply off the list.


7. About projectiles. I suggest using helper projectiles, so you can add code to them. in the juggle check code you can use helper(X), redirection to set the juggle points and in the helper's code add parent,var(16) > 0 triggers to allow juggling. I am skipping coding that step explicitly because that is rather simple if you understand the previous code and should be seen as an exercise.

I hope I did not forget anything.

This code is provided to be free of use and I take no legal responsability of what is done with it; if you manage to kill yourself using this code I am not to be held responsible.
Last Edit: July 09, 2008, 07:19:44 pm by Satou Sei

swipergod

Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
#314  July 10, 2008, 07:05:39 pm
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Thanks again [E], really appriciate all the contributions you've put in to this project.  Think I'll be bumping you up in credits.  The code makes sense to me.  I think what I'll do is finish Yuri as is and implement this juggle system with Kula for the test drive.  I'm pretty sure it'll mesch better, so after that I'll work backwards, implementing it with the chains system.

I think I'll still leave the projectiles as no juggle limit, because I don't forsee it leading to infinites and it's good tack on damage.  If I'm proven wrong, then I'll change it.  Only moves like Thunder Rain have projectile juggle caps at the moment.
New KOFE website is up.  Go visit it for all your KOFE needs:

https://mugenkofe.wixsite.com/info

Bastard Mami

Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
#315  July 10, 2008, 08:29:35 pm
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hahaha, limit them now as it will be pretty easy to be proven wrong for that :P

Leon Belmont

Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
#316  July 11, 2008, 07:34:25 am
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I don't have much to do with this project, but just dropping my thanks to [E] because that stuff comes in handy for me. :)

swipergod

Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
#317  July 12, 2008, 04:27:18 pm
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Always great to thank [E] for his many contributions!

Okay, so after going through the list of this I need to do for this project, I realized that I have only one sprite edit outside of my capabilities left to go (with KOF 98 UM having the rest).  Big thanks to [E] for the rest.  It's for the Robert '03 stance conversion to '99 sprites.  I did request help from Walt on this and while he did agree that he was capable of doing the edit, he did not specifically commit to doing it.  I can understand seeing how Walt gets many requests and isn't always in spriting mode.  So just seeing if anyone else'd like to bite and put the last non-technical request for this project to rest, I'm reposting the request.

I've done what's within my capabilities here:



The work that's still required is the addition of the vest and pendant, the change in his collar (from v-neck to round), the removal of his arm strap thing and his belt (shirt's tucked in).  Here are some samples of how SNK did it to give an idea of how to proceed:



I'd appreciate any help here.  Even if you're just capable of removing the arm straps or fixing the collar.

Missfairy is trying to work on AIs, but has found herself a little caught up in other things.  So after I finish Yuri, I'll stop, do the AIs for Vanessa, Yuri and Jhun and then release them right after.  Don't expect much though, as I'm definitely not a skilled AI coder.  So far, Kim, Karate and Angel are the only AI I've put together (using Missfairy's template).  Although Missfairy helped with Kim and Karate.  I'm going to post a revised "to do" list, but I've gotta be honest,  doing all these characters' coding is really burning me out so I may not be able to implement everything for the next release.  Right now, the chain system is the priority because it's already been implemented in some characters.
New KOFE website is up.  Go visit it for all your KOFE needs:

https://mugenkofe.wixsite.com/info
Last Edit: July 12, 2008, 07:38:05 pm by swipergod

Dark Symphony

Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
#318  July 12, 2008, 05:23:00 pm
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Why not just release the characters without AIs initially so we can test how they play? You can always add AI later with the benefit of having some feedback to work with.

Hey, it'd give you a break.

swipergod

Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
#319  July 12, 2008, 06:21:59 pm
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That seems a little dangerous to me, because the character outside of training mode would be full of glitches.  For example, currently Jhun's Cresent Moon Kick goes through floors and teleports when the AI does it, because it can currently interrupt any air attack into it.  This is not a human controlled problem, but without a character specific AI you can't really fight against them in Arcarde mode or any other mode for that matter because their triggers are bogus.  I don't want to release a character that's for human vs human play only.  It shouldn't take too long.  Angel's AI took me about 4 hours to program, but I'd really like to finish Yuri before I go on a AI spree.

If I end up doing the AI, it will just serve as filler for now until there's more time to revisit and tweak it.  Several AI codes really need to be fixed as is anyway (Kim being the predominant one here).  The main things I've noticed with the AI that needs to be fixed:

Some characters throw unlimited projectiles.  I need to block this in the projectile's triggerall with a projnum blocker.
As [E] pointed out characters should not be able to attack while in state 5040.  Humans can't, but the computer can.
[E] also pointed out that the computer can grab you out of a block or hitstate.  Humans cannot. 

Yuri's tentative for a next weekend finish.  So all 3 should be good to go around Monday or Tuesday after that.
New KOFE website is up.  Go visit it for all your KOFE needs:

https://mugenkofe.wixsite.com/info

Dark Symphony

Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
#320  July 12, 2008, 08:54:47 pm
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I guess...

I think i'm the only MUGENer who programs with human comp in mind. Humans are the ones who do the gamebreaking things with characters, not AI. AI doesn't use Magneto infinites or that Kyo 100%er you were so worried about.

I spend most of my MUGEN time in practice mode testing things out. I don't know... to me, "good AI" comes WAY after making sure the character basics are in order.
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