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Mary Sue Declares GOT Problematic (Read 10609 times)

Started by Iced, May 19, 2015, 04:41:48 pm
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Re: Mary Sue Declares GOT Problematic
#41  May 20, 2015, 09:29:26 pm
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There's a full article that I unfortunately didn't quote, I only picked two quotes to show the article was talking about a lot of things no one was addressing, and that their analysis
But their analysis is wrong either way you look at it, even if you say it brings up a number of points that people aren't discussing. The part you quoted as "great" is severely flawed in its basic premise, as I said.

Rape culture is in the West, but that was an unrelated point to Game of Thrones. . It's okay to admit that Rape Culture exists and is in the West, it doesn't degrade any area to say that it is an issue, though I was talking more about North America than Europe, sorry for not being completely clear. I've studied primarily about North America on the topic and not Europe on the issue.
Saying that the West has a rape culture is like saying "men are pigs" or "women are whores". Rape culture exists, and some circles have it, of course, but watch out for how you go on about it : Rajaa was talking about a "GLOBAL rape culture in the West" (and how some people want to force the idea that it was global), to which you answered "well, there is a rape culture in the West !" and that's just bad because you're just deviating from the point you're responding to.
No one has been denying that "rape culture" is a thing that exists.
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Last Edit: May 20, 2015, 09:33:44 pm by DKDC
Re: Mary Sue Declares GOT Problematic
#42  May 20, 2015, 09:48:31 pm
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fair points, I might've misunderstood what Rajaa was getting at, but I do think rape culture is a systemic problem that is reinforced by society, through social attitudes. To be clear I'm not trying to say every man is a rapist and must be so because of society, but I think the problem is bigger than just some circles, there's a predisposition for men to be prone to committing sexual violence. 


Its cute you would try to conflate people crying online about this bullshit with actual activists, as if anyone that ever took part in one of those were actually fighting for anything.
they arent.

Having been involved in this for the last few years doing actual work, I can tell you that the circles of people who are "actual activists" and those who are "crying online" are not mutually exclusive.

Just because someone isn't famous and popular like Emma Watson doesn't mean they aren't doing real work. I don't mind your criticisms of social media slacktivists but am concerned you might not see the difference between people who post on social media for brownie points and people who do work WHO ALSO post on social media.


let's say the govt. offers help to poor people, and the feminists activist start crying and whinning so said government help is only given to poor people of the female gender and all help taht was given to poor people of the male gender is not being given anymore (or the example I said earlier about the police not prosecuting rape agains males because it somehow makes rape against females harder to prosecute).

Can you provide some links because I've never heard of this happening ever. 
Re: Mary Sue Declares GOT Problematic
#43  May 20, 2015, 09:54:37 pm
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I think the problem is bigger than just some circles, there's a predisposition for men to be prone to committing sexual violence.
Sure, that's a fact of biology, but then there's a layer of social constructs and behaviors, and the "rape culture" isn't as big as that. It needs to be pointed out and fought when it happens, but rape culture itself isn't natural, it's still a crime, and it's recognized as such in society.
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Having been involved in this for the last few years doing actual work, I can tell you that the circles of people who are "actual activists" and those who are "crying online" are not mutually exclusive.

Just because someone isn't famous and popular like Emma Watson doesn't mean they aren't doing real work. I don't mind your criticisms of social media slacktivists but am concerned you might not see the difference between people who post on social media for brownie points and people who do work WHO ALSO post on social media.
You're deviating again from "those who cry online and harass people and think they're doing social justice" to "those who do actual work and post about it online". Those two categories ARE separated - as in, "those who cry online and harass people and think they're doing social justice" are by definition NOT those who actually do any work (and if they do any work and that work has anything to do with harassment and crying a river over the tiniest bullshit, then they're doing a super shitty job in real life too and should be kicked the fuck out of that activity !). They're the ones being the most vocal on the Internet, they're the ones who are making this social activism look bad, and they're the ones being scorned.
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Re: Mary Sue Declares GOT Problematic
#44  May 20, 2015, 10:08:26 pm
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but in rape you are left alive and you are a victim all the time while in murder you rest in piece and therefore there are not victims.

[EDIT]oh yeah, and let's not prosecute rape against men because it makes rape against women harder to prosecute.

Oh definitely I seriously hate that logic because apparently murder doesn't affect ANYONE who knows the victim, they don't feel pain or anything they just don't give a shit but with rape EVERYONE suddenly must give a shit even if the woman in question was able to recover from it with no issue but then that leads into the woman being accused of ENJOYING IT and willing to let someone take the fall because she's vindictive...

And yeah, Rape Against Men might as well NEVER exist or if it does, it's a joke...
Reminds me of how everyone believes Domestic Abuse still only happens between a man against a woman despite studies everywhere saying woman against man is on a huge rise...but "feminism" right?
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Re: Mary Sue Declares GOT Problematic
#45  May 20, 2015, 10:23:13 pm
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Rape culture is in the West, but that was an unrelated point to Game of Thrones. . It's okay to admit that Rape Culture exists and is in the West, it doesn't degrade any area to say that it is an issue, though I was talking more about North America than Europe, sorry for not being completely clear.

Of course it doesn't degrade anyone, it's just, you know, a fucking lie.

Why don't you tell Sabrina Rubin Erdely I said hi?

Re: Mary Sue Declares GOT Problematic
#46  May 21, 2015, 12:57:11 am
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Re: Mary Sue Declares GOT Problematic
#47  May 21, 2015, 01:25:36 am
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Having been involved in this for the last few years doing actual work, I can tell you that the circles of people who are "actual activists" and those who are "crying online" are not mutually exclusive.

Just because someone isn't famous and popular like Emma Watson doesn't mean they aren't doing real work. I don't mind your criticisms of social media slacktivists but am concerned you might not see the difference between people who post on social media for brownie points and people who do work WHO ALSO post on social media.

You ignored everything else i said so I will sum it down again.
If you are treating people crying and outraging as if they are somehow doing work towards any form of activism and actively comparing them to people like Amanda Palmer and Gaiman, you are part of the problem.

Also what DKDC said pretty much.
Re: Mary Sue Declares GOT Problematic
#48  May 21, 2015, 01:44:05 am
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Re: Mary Sue Declares GOT Problematic
#49  May 21, 2015, 04:23:09 am
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idgi, are you seriously asking for sources for a metaphor?

Only asked as I thought you were implying those things happened and were serious about it. It's hard to tell with MRAs.

All I was saying is that there are certainly many who've contributed loads who do both - who often get dumped on as being whiny crybabies who only post on social media, when in reality they do more but it isn't seen.


Of course it doesn't degrade anyone, it's just, you know, a fucking lie.

Why don't you tell Sabrina Rubin Erdely I said hi?


just because one person lied about an issue doesn't mean said issue is all bullshit just look at the statistics.

]Sure, that's a fact of biology, but then there's a layer of social constructs and behaviors, and the "rape culture" isn't as big as that. It needs to be pointed out and fought when it happens, but rape culture itself isn't natural, it's still a crime, and it's recognized as such in society.

Don't disagree except in that even though sexual assault is still a crime there are many times where society attempts to justify such acts, for example defending a rapist because both parties were drunk. I don't mind the rest of what you said.


Re: Mary Sue Declares GOT Problematic
#50  May 21, 2015, 04:26:24 am
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I'm looking at the statistics. Said issue is bullshit.

Proof.
Re: Mary Sue Declares GOT Problematic
#51  May 21, 2015, 04:32:30 am
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idgi, are you seriously asking for sources for a metaphor?

Only asked as I thought you were implying those things happened and were serious about it. It's hard to tell with MRAs.

All I was saying is that there are certainly many who've contributed loads who do both - who often get dumped on as being whiny crybabies who only post on social media, when in reality they do more but it isn't seen.


Of course it doesn't degrade anyone, it's just, you know, a fucking lie.

Why don't you tell Sabrina Rubin Erdely I said hi?


just because one person lied about an issue doesn't mean said issue is all bullshit just look at the statistics.

]Sure, that's a fact of biology, but then there's a layer of social constructs and behaviors, and the "rape culture" isn't as big as that. It needs to be pointed out and fought when it happens, but rape culture itself isn't natural, it's still a crime, and it's recognized as such in society.

Don't disagree except in that even though sexual assault is still a crime there are many times where society attempts to justify such acts, for example defending a rapist because both parties were drunk. I don't mind the rest of what you said.

Dude just stop, you are making yourself worse. Just take the fact that the Mary Sue is pretty much jumping on the "feminist" bandwagon with a whole bunch of "feminists" whining about how rape has triggered them but yet not say shit at the rampant male violence, death and even castration of a young boy which already makes it extremely hypocritical on top of that.

You lose, admit it and walk away from the small level of respect you have left.
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Re: Mary Sue Declares GOT Problematic
#52  May 21, 2015, 04:42:25 am
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That was uncalled for. You're getting way too offended by a different viewpoint. That reaction is not a proper way to discuss.
Re: Mary Sue Declares GOT Problematic
#53  May 21, 2015, 04:52:44 am
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To be fair though, momo's whole gimmick is to just be contrary to whatever the popular opinion is for the sake of stirring up shit. Just sayin'.
Re: Mary Sue Declares GOT Problematic
#54  May 21, 2015, 04:56:53 am
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He hasn't gotten personal about it though.
Re: Mary Sue Declares GOT Problematic
#55  May 21, 2015, 04:57:52 am
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funny, I was checkign the recycle bin because I tought jnp was talking abouta  post that got deleted or something.
Don't disagree except in that even though sexual assault is still a crime there are many times where society attempts to justify such acts, for example defending a rapist because both parties were drunk. I don't mind the rest of what you said.

lol
Re: Mary Sue Declares GOT Problematic
#56  May 21, 2015, 05:46:12 am
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I'm not trying to stir up shit. I was simply posting what I believe.

I rarely come by here and its certainly not for forum arguments. Sexual assault is an important topic for me which is why I bothered to engage for this long.

Peace
Re: Mary Sue Declares GOT Problematic
#57  May 21, 2015, 05:51:12 am
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That was uncalled for. You're getting way too offended by a different viewpoint. That reaction is not a proper way to discuss.

I wasn't being offensive at all...lest you mean Momo, if not I apologize.
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Re: Mary Sue Declares GOT Problematic
#58  May 21, 2015, 06:06:41 am
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Dude just stop, you are making yourself worse. Just take the fact that the Mary Sue is pretty much jumping on the "feminist" bandwagon with a whole bunch of "feminists" whining about how rape has triggered them but yet not say shit at the rampant male violence, death and even castration of a young boy which already makes it extremely hypocritical on top of that.

You lose, admit it and walk away from the small level of respect you have left.
These particular lines felt very out of left field to me considering the direction, tone, and temperature of the topic thus far. The discussion had seemed quite civil and then you jump up and yell for Momo to stop posting his different opinions Like opposition isn't allowed. Thus far he hasn't done much to prove he is only trying to stir things up in this thread.. And discussions shouldn't be about "winning" or "losing"
Re: Mary Sue Declares GOT Problematic
#59  May 21, 2015, 06:14:17 am
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Dude just stop, you are making yourself worse. Just take the fact that the Mary Sue is pretty much jumping on the "feminist" bandwagon with a whole bunch of "feminists" whining about how rape has triggered them but yet not say shit at the rampant male violence, death and even castration of a young boy which already makes it extremely hypocritical on top of that.

You lose, admit it and walk away from the small level of respect you have left.
These particular lines felt very out of left field to me considering the direction, tone, and temperature of the topic thus far. The discussion had seemed quite civil and then you jump up and yell for Momo to stop posting his different opinions Like opposition isn't allowed. Thus far he hasn't done much to prove he is only trying to stir things up in this thread.. And discussions shouldn't be about "winning" or "losing"

I wasn't trying to be offensive on those 2 lines, I was stating the fact that he was making himself out to be a joke and making it worse on himself and trying to get him to walk away from it before he pretty much be seen completely as a joke.
I don't have a problem with him being an opposition at all, the main thing was while he took the article's side, his points...didn't make any real sense and was just following it blindly.
The article itself is already a joke but being more realistic about it would have helped alot more than just saying nearly what the article is pointing out verbatim.
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Re: Mary Sue Declares GOT Problematic
#60  May 21, 2015, 06:22:55 am
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if you wanna talk about people making shitty remarks out of left field
Only asked as I thought you were implying those things happened and were serious about it. It's hard to tell with MRAs.
this is just making assumptions about someone's personality just because they hold certain beliefs (it's also an atrocious attempt at saving face after failing to understand a pretty basic sentence)