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Feedback to Warnings/Decisions (Read 854440 times)

Started by Iced, February 24, 2012, 09:43:26 pm
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Re: Feedback to Warnings/Decisions
#1001  February 16, 2013, 01:47:49 am
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Sure. I don't pay enough attention (and don't have enough arrogance) to feel like I have a good enough grasp on this forum to tell you how to run it or anything like that. You just made a huge sweeping sarcastic statement that I felt was based on a false assumption, so I tried to address that. I'm not causing issues or anything and I'm fine to bow out of the discussion here.

(Also, psst, it's manner. A manor is a fancy house.)
Re: Feedback to Warnings/Decisions
#1002  February 16, 2013, 01:50:43 am
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I do remember users would go out of their way and stalk the him. They would even go as far as his Mugen Help threads, which was unrelated to the drama, and go ham. When I pointed this out, I was called a white knight, a trap lover, and a pedophile.
Wait, what? I don't recall this ever happening? Link, plz.

Also, in the future, if you see that kind of harassment, report it. That's the only way we'll know about that kind of stuff, and, more importantly, the only way it will stop.

We're not discussing Rajaa's attitude, we're discussing MBH's.
ZS is free to discuss whatever he wants in this thread... well I mean, if it's on topic. And what he posted is. You don't get to dictate the terms of the discussion.

Either you're suggesting that this doesn't happen, or that it doesn't need to be addressed, and in any case I'd disagree with the whole lot of you.
I would also disagree with the notion that there isn't any cliquishness, or people ganging up on others, or whatever. To deny that happening is to deny basic human nature. We may have emerged from the ultra-insular pre-rule change era, but it's not like we're some perfectly welcome and open community. It's something everyone, from mods to users, needs to work on; sure, it's striving towards an admittedly impossible goal, but it improves everyone's experience here.
Re: Feedback to Warnings/Decisions
#1003  February 16, 2013, 01:51:52 am
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When it's true, and a problem that needs to be addressed. If someone at my job told me I was useless, and they had a good enough argument to express that it was true, I wouldn't hide and ignore it, I'd do something about it.

Statements of fact are never insults. If those are not statements of fact, the appropriate response is to contest them.

Because you wanna get paid. We all have to eat shit and like the taste of it at certain points in life to move up, I get that. But this is not real life and she's not getting paid to endure crap as a moderator on a freaking gaming forum. And I never said ignoring was the proper reaction, I agree it should've been handled better. I just said it's amongst the things that could've happened and did happen.
Millie, "Ozy and Millie" said:
"I think there are really three types of people: "Glass is half-full" sorts of people, "Glass is half-empty" sorts of people,
and people who will spit into the glass until that's fixed."
Re: Feedback to Warnings/Decisions
#1004  February 16, 2013, 01:58:09 am
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When it's true, and a problem that needs to be addressed. If someone at my job told me I was useless, and they had a good enough argument to express that it was true, I wouldn't hide and ignore it, I'd do something about it.

Statements of fact are never insults. If those are not statements of fact, the appropriate response is to contest them.

Because you wanna get paid. We all have to eat shit and like the taste of it at certain points in life to move up, I get that. But this is not real life and she's not getting paid to endure crap as a moderator on a freaking gaming forum. And I never said ignoring was the proper reaction, I agree it should've been handled better. I just said it's amongst the things that could've happened and did happen.

I was coming at that more from 'because I want to do a good job at things', I just said 'job' because obviously I'm useless here because I'm not a contributor or mod or anything so the comparison wouldn't work. Regardless of context, if someone has a problem with my behaviour that I judge has merit, I'll try to fix it. That's who I am. I guess that isn't who everyone is?

Getting tangential now though, so whatever. XD
Re: Feedback to Warnings/Decisions
#1005  February 16, 2013, 02:06:45 am
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I do remember users would go out of their way and stalk the him. They would even go as far as his Mugen Help threads, which was unrelated to the drama, and go ham. When I pointed this out, I was called a white knight, a trap lover, and a pedophile.
Wait, what? I don't recall this ever happening? Link, plz.
Late 2011 or early 2012 I think, can't find it as it was a small period of time, but yes there was an issue with Duo befriending Navana a bit. Lately the forum has gotten a lot kinder but I remember the place did have a lot of issues in 2011 with users and arguments all over the place, I remember the drone thing wasn't dropped for months after Bomber, Cap'n, Belial, and I stopped posting much in random topic.
Re: Feedback to Warnings/Decisions
#1006  February 16, 2013, 02:12:26 am
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It's not a requirement. My comments about her contributions to Mugen were coupled with my comments about her contributions to this forum to ask her what reason she had in being here in the first place if she's not interested in Mugen and only wants to stir up arguments about staff decisions.

I don't know why Basara brought up stars.
Well the fact that I just quoted a piece of a post that was indeed directed at you, and the fact that I felt the need to show this just goes to show you that maybe the things you're saying are not properly elaborated by you, simply because they come off as something else.

I mean no offense by this, but shit...

Someone please point out the insults in my posts.
Rajaa said:
That's not the reason she's useless. She's useless because...
Rajaa said:
I wasn't belittling her

...in what parallel universe is saying someone is useless at something, in real life, in a forum or anywhere else, not to be considered belittling? That's like telling someone they suck straight in their face and expecting a handshake in return.

I'm not saying it was your intention to do so, I'm just saying it's pretty silly not to expect reactions like the ones she had. Such as ignoring.

I didn't say she was useless before she began ignoring me, nor did I insult her, so your point is moot, just like hers.
Re: Feedback to Warnings/Decisions
#1007  February 16, 2013, 02:21:47 am
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So what you guys are saying is that MissB's claims have no merit. You're suggesting that there is never a clique behavior, where members of this forum gang up on someone who, say, doesn't listen to their feedback for releases. Or breaks either an unwritten rule or says something dumb a few times. No one has ever been driven out of this forum by a mob mentality. There aren't people on this forum, hell on this staff even, that provoke people either at the start of an argument or after one has died down into an completely unnecessary fight and it hasn't even been happening recently. Either you're suggesting that this doesn't happen, or that it doesn't need to be addressed, and in any case I'd disagree with the whole lot of you.
Did someone suggest it never happened ? As far as I could follow the discussion, things blew up because MBH said very vague things, and when asked to elaborate, didn't. It didn't blow up over those things happening or not, it blew up over the refusal to explain something.

We're not discussing Rajaa's attitude, we're discussing MBH's.
ZS is free to discuss whatever he wants in this thread... well I mean, if it's on topic. And what he posted is. You don't get to dictate the terms of the discussion.
Completely not the point and not what I said, AGAIN. I'm not dictating what SHOULD be discussed, I'm underlining what WAS being discussed, so kindly get the fuck off my back instead of misreading me, again. Bringing up "how this was said" and "which wording was used" is irrelevant. It may be on the topic of the argument, but it's a different discussion altogether. I'm saying it's not an adequate answer to the issue that was raised, it's a tangential remark on the overall discussion, which answers nothing of the original problem.
If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.
Re: Feedback to Warnings/Decisions
#1008  February 16, 2013, 02:25:51 am
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So what you guys are saying is that MissB's claims have no merit. You're suggesting that there is never a clique behavior, where members of this forum gang up on someone who, say, doesn't listen to their feedback for releases. Or breaks either an unwritten rule or says something dumb a few times. No one has ever been driven out of this forum by a mob mentality. There aren't people on this forum, hell on this staff even, that provoke people either at the start of an argument or after one has died down into an completely unnecessary fight and it hasn't even been happening recently. Either you're suggesting that this doesn't happen, or that it doesn't need to be addressed, and in any case I'd disagree with the whole lot of you.
I find this completely irrelevant to the forum BECOMING meaner. Becoming meaner means moving toward meanness, which I don't think is happening. Those things will exist in any community and sub community, and it's not that rampant here to the point at which I don't think there's a mob mentality here, as opposed to some places that claim their forum is an actual team -- and people literally get outcasted more often than not.

Rajaa, are you saying that MissB HASN'T contributed anything as a member of the staff? That she doesn't give her opinion, especially when it comes to trying to set a standard procedure set up for banning people? Or maybe you don't think her ideas seem reasonable in any way and they're not worth listening to? And do you think a majority of the staff feel that way? I know how I feel about it. Everything she has brought up, even when I disagree with her, has been worth discussing even for a tiny bit. Even with HJK it's worth questioning, though I agree with what happened in the end to him. In the end you've suggested the harm that she's done, as a member of the staff, is waste time discussing whether or not people should be banned instead of acting first and asking questions later. Her crime is 'wasting time'. I think it's important to everyone on this forum that we spend at least some time discussing long term or permanent actions by any member of our staff. Hell how long did we spend discussing what is or isn't porn in comparison to HJK's ban? Did MissB really cause any of us any harm with that, other than you who will not drop this subject at all?

This is ridiculous. Compared to some of the complaints on our staff for things that really have harmed the forum, including for example what I did to Shamrock, MissB 'crimes' of 'wasting time' are negligible.
If you read my post, you would understand exactly what I'm saying, I don't really feel like repeating myself. I don't know what the majority of the staff thinks because the majority of the staff hasn't really said anything, but a lot of other people have said things. HJK's ban was not worth questioning. He is only a troll -- he has been a troll for his whole history on this forum; from the alternate accounts to the subliminal and direct messages imbedded in his profile to the spammy (and actual spam), inciting posts out of the blue. Opposing that because of some nonexistent constitution is ridiculous.

Sure, oppose some things, disagree with some things, but don't make that your whole GIMMICK. That porn discussion was even more ridiculous, but Jmorphman doesn't do that EVERY single time as some sort of gimmick or out of some sense of superiority.

Yes, she causes harm because she represents an ongoing gimmick that I have grown to dislike. And apparently I'm not the only one.

Also, to add, she completely snubbed my post because she claimed I was insulting her, when I wasn't, and she was being coy and still is being coy to this very moment, and not only to me.
Re: Feedback to Warnings/Decisions
#1009  February 16, 2013, 02:39:04 am
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so kindly get the fuck off my back instead of misreading me, again.
:embarrassed2:

I'm saying it's not an adequate answer to the issue that was raised, it's a tangential remark on the overall discussion, which answers nothing of the original problem.
And I'm saying that it doesn't matter whether it's tangential or not.

Nothing more, nothing less.
Re: Feedback to Warnings/Decisions
#1010  February 16, 2013, 02:43:02 am
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And I'm saying that it doesn't matter whether it's tangential or not.

Nothing more, nothing less.
You don't get to dictate the terms of the discussion.
You're saying I'm trying to force people into discussing what I want and not what they want. That's what "dictating the terms of the discussion" means. Stop trying to make me look like a close-minded bully who stomps on anyone who disagrees with me when I'm explaining problems and solutions. Is anyone even interested in FIXING stuff or just arguing about words with more words ?
If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.
Last Edit: February 16, 2013, 02:46:10 am by DKDC
Re: Feedback to Warnings/Decisions
#1011  February 16, 2013, 02:47:34 am
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I think you're reading too deeply into things, and producing readings that have no basis on reality. You did in fact tell ZS that his post was irrelevant ("arguing in circles"), and that's why I said that you should dictate the terms of the discussion.

Now let's get back on topic, shall we? (because this actually is off-topic :P)

Yes, she causes harm because she represents an ongoing gimmick that I have grown to dislike. And apparently I'm not the only one.
It's a gimmick that she rarely agrees with the rest of us? That's ridiculous.
Re: Feedback to Warnings/Decisions
#1012  February 16, 2013, 03:01:44 am
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Did someone suggest it never happened? As far as I could follow the discussion, things blew up because MBH said very vague things, and when asked to elaborate, didn't. It didn't blow up over those things happening or not, it blew up over the refusal to explain something.

If it is happening, then isn't it useful to have someone on the staff who brings it up? Also it was a lot more complicated than that.

I find this completely irrelevant to the forum BECOMING meaner. Becoming meaner means moving toward meanness, which I don't think is happening. Those things will exist in any community and sub community, and it's not that rampant here to the point at which I don't think there's a mob mentality here, as opposed to some places that claim their forum is an actual team -- and people literally get outcasted more often than not.

While you don't believe the forum is getting meaner, apparently there are times MissB believes it is and feels the need to discuss it. There have been times where I've felt the same way as her, too.

HJK's ban was not worth questioning. He is only a troll -- he has been a troll for his whole history on this forum; from the alternate accounts to the subliminal and direct messages imbedded in his profile to the spammy (and actual spam), inciting posts out of the blue. Opposing that because of some nonexistent constitution is ridiculous.

His ban was initially presented as being for spamming posts in the 'shit thread', and the staff member who banned him circumvented the policy we had been trying out when he did it(preliminary ban, discussion, long term ban. He skipped right to the long term ban). MissB questioned both of these, and I believe it was appropriate for her to do so. I even initially questioned it because of how the ban was carried out. In the end she even agreed that HJK's other behavior combined with his past was a good justification for a long term ban.

Unprovoked attacks and multiple fake accounts are acceptable reasons for a lengthy ban, I have a differing opinion about what you see as "starting fights" though.   And I will admit  I'm defensive about this ban because it didn't follow procedure....so I will stop claiming  it was because what happened in the shit thread. 

Sure, oppose some things, disagree with some things, but don't make that your whole GIMMICK. That porn discussion was even more ridiculous, but Jmorphman doesn't do that EVERY single time as some sort of gimmick or out of some sense of superiority.

I believe she's been fairly consistent on what she opposes. It probably seems like she does it more than what she really does because she speaks out more for issues she believes in. I know why you believe it's a gimmick but that doesn't mean that it is. I haven't seen it that way because I have found the issues she brings up to be useful and necessary.

Yes, she causes harm because she represents an ongoing gimmick that I have grown to dislike. And apparently I'm not the only one.

Also, to add, she completely snubbed my post because she claimed I was insulting her, when I wasn't, and she was being coy and still is being coy to this very moment, and not only to me.

Look at it from this point of view. If she sees your message as being inflammatory and does not want to continue the conversation or discuss the issue until it's at least presented in a way that doesn't make, with or without a base, claims about her usefulness and intentions, and questioning her character, that's how she feels about it. In the same way that you feel that her speaking out on bans and rude behavior so often makes you feel like she's being a gimmick that you personally dislike, and how you want to put an end to that. I'm not gonna speak for the way she handled it but I understand. I understand how all of you have handled this and why this has come about.

I like this staff. Having both of you on this staff has and will continue to make this forum a better place. I'd like to work through this and end this issue instead of dragging it on. I tried to stay out of it but it just wouldn't drop so I'll say that I believe what MissB does is useful. I believe what you all do is useful.
Re: Feedback to Warnings/Decisions
#1013  February 16, 2013, 03:17:23 am
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My telling her about her faults is not a fault of my own -- that's a horrible way to look at things.

Not to be dismissive, but I'm over it, just so long as she takes this as feedback and thinks about it the next time she wants to oppose just for the sake of opposition. Otherwise, I will bring it up again, because it's not a good attitude, no matter how much the "devil's advocate" is needed.

And also as long as she stops being ridiculously coy and self entitled.
Re: Feedback to Warnings/Decisions
#1014  February 16, 2013, 03:40:50 am
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I didn't say she was useless before she began ignoring me, nor did I insult her, so your point is moot, just like hers.

I know this topic is getting old, Rajaa, but I'm having trouble understanding you here. It seems to me like you're saying that her actions, or rather, in your point of view, lack thereof wasn't what made her "useless", but the fact that she ignored you? Or would the case be that you somewhat "snapped" at her silent reactions and then came clean about what you really felt like saying to her? I don't see a third possibility here.

But anywho, just so people know, I'm not trying to white-knight anyone here. I'm just saying things the way I see them, no more, no less. I can safely say I have indeed experienced a situation where a person tried to force their opinion in a clan I used to be a part of. It was quite worse than this, but I can still see why some people react the way they do. I do, however, know for a fact that if this person just sat down and made suggestions to the more experienced portion of the team and learned from the answers instead of insisting to flick off people he could learn from, I would still be in that clan.

I'm not sure how many people feel that this is the kind of situation the staff's in, though, since I'm not a member of it.
Millie, "Ozy and Millie" said:
"I think there are really three types of people: "Glass is half-full" sorts of people, "Glass is half-empty" sorts of people,
and people who will spit into the glass until that's fixed."
Re: Feedback to Warnings/Decisions
#1015  February 16, 2013, 03:44:43 am
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If you can't understand that in relation to all the other posts I and others have made on this subject, then any further clarification would be futile because the problem is clearly your own.
Re: Feedback to Warnings/Decisions
#1016  February 16, 2013, 06:20:54 am
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Hm... I guess you're right, I might've misinterpreted some things. I still believe both of you could've solved this thing a lot better, though. I'm not against either one of you, to be quite honest.

Just trying to see things correctly here, because if this staff collapsed somehow because of silly things and arguments, just when things have improved considerably in the forum, that would suck.
Millie, "Ozy and Millie" said:
"I think there are really three types of people: "Glass is half-full" sorts of people, "Glass is half-empty" sorts of people,
and people who will spit into the glass until that's fixed."
Re: Feedback to Warnings/Decisions
#1017  February 16, 2013, 06:33:54 am
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Staff is not collapsing over this.
Last Edit: February 16, 2013, 06:45:18 am by Rajaa
Re: Feedback to Warnings/Decisions
#1018  February 16, 2013, 01:43:59 pm
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Quote
It's a gimmick that she rarely agrees with the rest of us? That's ridiculous.

It really, really isn't, and it's not the first time I've seen someone be contrarian for the sake of it.

Mog

Re: Feedback to Warnings/Decisions
#1019  February 16, 2013, 03:21:27 pm
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Quote
It's a gimmick that she rarely agrees with the rest of us? That's ridiculous.

It really, really isn't, and it's not the first time I've seen someone be contrarian for the sake of it.

Oh trust me, I will question my motives  before I start objecting like a cheap lawyer.  Rajaa, I apologize for ignoring you.  I still think you were aggressive, insulting and bullying but I could have handled it better.

Re: Feedback to Warnings/Decisions
#1020  February 16, 2013, 03:46:16 pm
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If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.