The Mugen Fighters Guild - Confused on why I'm in the shit thread after I kept threatening to shit

Jmorphman

Re: Somebody goofed

#4901 September 07, 2014, 02:55:29 am

If you’re gonna reach for a star...
reach for the lowest one you can.

And yet the link is now gone. NoZ's one post saying "fine whatever" doesn't instantly erase every other post, every mention that he shouldn't have released it with the flame, every post that insuiniated that this situation would make NoZ go private, every post that said he disliked people like Gazira, and so on. Events must be taken in full. And looking over the full series of posts, what emerges is a distinct pressure to remove the flame.

It's not overt, douchey pressure, but it is pressure nonetheless. Once Gazira made it clear he didn't want to remove it the matter should've been dropped,

JustNoPoint

Re: Somebody goofed

#4902 September 07, 2014, 02:59:29 am

I felt that both Noz and Gazira overreacted a bit. Noz shouldn't have worried about it to begin with. He didn't have authority to say yes or no on said rip at all.

Gazira removed the link really early in the disagreement. I didn't feel it was getting out of hand at all and was going to fix itself. I even thought he'd put the link back for a bit till I read it was still gone.

It was just an overreaction for both parties. It didn't seem so severe to me as I was reading it I thought it was going to resolve itself. I could have said something comforting toward Gazira after I realized he never restored the link but I didn't think about it. I thought it was "very little" to remove the link over.

Byakko

Re: Somebody goofed

#4903 September 07, 2014, 03:00:39 am

GaziraAgain said, September 05, 2014, 05:39:10 pm

I put lots of backgrounds and try with anims and... no, I don´t like the result, and I don´t release something that is bad for me. If someone wanna help me with the creation of a anim it´s good. For my part I made all that is in my hands creating the screenpack and the portraits. I don´t have more ideas in my mind because the truth that I was quite disappointed. But hey, if anyone wants to participate in the project with a good backgroun anim is welcome.

>then more and more people show up, including elliot, then Saikoro calling for a time out
>Gazira goes the "it's an edit and Mugen is free" route
>more arguing with more and more people left and right
>Gazira removes the link (well, he removed it before but he was talking about fixing it, and then he didn't anymore).

Gazira seemed to be accepting the idea of replacing the flame, he just didn't have any idea himself and was getting tired of it. Then he gave up. Even if he only was responding to NoZ, the whole timing of the discussion makes it look like he gave up because of the arguing from all the people. Before that, he seemed reluctant but willing to talk it through.

If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.

Last Edit: September 07, 2014, 03:03:56 am by DKDC

Jmorphman

Re: Somebody goofed

#4904 September 07, 2014, 03:04:34 am

If you’re gonna reach for a star...
reach for the lowest one you can.

I think you have the timing of events wrong; by the time Saikoro and the others showed up, the link had long since been removed.

I kept missing this, but I remembered seeing this. This was posted right after the link was removed, in reply to NoZ

GaziraAgain said, September 05, 2014, 12:57:55 pm

Okay as you get your way, I'll pass. Sorry for the people who wanted the screenpack but apparently seen not want any trouble. Delete the link and now this problem solved, we are already in ShugenDo.

Gazira posted after all that, but by then, the link was already gone. The back and forth of the dumb-dumbs only really began after this post.

Just No Point said, September 07, 2014, 02:59:29 am

It was just an overreaction for both parties.

Can't argue with that. There's been so many pages of nonsense generated from such a simple misunderstanding.

Byakko

Re: Somebody goofed

#4905 September 07, 2014, 03:06:32 am

Like JNP said, he removed the link early, but he kept talking about fixing the issue. In the post I quoted (that was after he removed the link, judging by the previous posts), he asked if anyone had any good idea to replace the animation, so he was still willing to give it a try. (that was also after the one you quote)
It's in the middle of the big argument that he gave up and stopped talking about fixing it.

If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.

Jmorphman

Re: Somebody goofed

#4906 September 07, 2014, 03:09:21 am

If you’re gonna reach for a star...
reach for the lowest one you can.

The thread was barely two pages long, and most of that was NoZ and Gazira's back and forth. That was the only big argument before the link was removed. Gazira did indeed post after the link was removed, but only once, and only about the "MUGEN is free" stuff. The trying to fix the issue stuff came before.

Byakko

Re: Somebody goofed

#4907 September 07, 2014, 03:12:52 am

The post you quoted was before the post I quoted. The timing of the removal is misleading, because when he removed it, the way he was talking, it seemed he was going to work on it again. It's what JNP said, and that's from him following the topic as it was going on.
And then elliot happened, and Gazira said the thing about Mugen being free, and then nothing. There was a point where he was willing to replace the animation, and then a point where he dropped it. The argument between other people was in the middle of that.

If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.

JustNoPoint

Re: Somebody goofed

#4908 September 07, 2014, 03:26:56 am

I stepped away to eat dinner after Elliot had made a post or 2. Came back and replied to Lith's "closed source 2014" post and thought the link was active again. By that time the big argument was mostly over and I was giving it a chance to finish up with the last few statements. I might have split it earlier had I not been on my phone (when I thought the link was back so it wouldn't have helped anything

).
Then it was mentioned the link was missing again and that's when I asked the thread to be canned.

Jmorphman

Re: Somebody goofed

#4909 September 07, 2014, 03:54:18 am

If you’re gonna reach for a star...
reach for the lowest one you can.

DKDC said, September 07, 2014, 03:12:52 am

The post you quoted was before the post I quoted. The timing of the removal is misleading, because when he removed it, the way he was talking, it seemed he was going to work on it again. It's what JNP said, and that's from him following the topic as it was going on.
And then elliot happened, and Gazira said the thing about Mugen being free, and then nothing. There was a point where he was willing to replace the animation, and then a point where he dropped it. The argument between other people was in the middle of that.

That all seems besides the point. Regardless of whether he took it down temporarily at first and later kept it down forever (and that post you quoted reads to me like he doesn't want to change it, that unless someone can find something that will fit just as well that there's no point. The simplest explanation is that he took down the link because of his exchange with NoZ, not that it was only temporary and was waiting for a replacement), he took it down in the first place because of his exchange with NoZ; he shouldn't have had to do that at all, IMO.

A mod should've been there to calm both parties down, to mediate a solution between the both of them.

Byakko

Re: Somebody goofed

#4910 September 07, 2014, 04:18:18 am

Jmorphman said, September 07, 2014, 03:54:18 am

he took it down in the first place because of his exchange with NoZ; he shouldn't have had to do that at all, IMO.

That seems to be the big divergence of opinion. If this was any other issue, how would it go ? A user gives feedback to a creator, the creator is reluctant to change the stuff in question but is willing to give it a try, he takes down the current version. Then other arguments go on, and the creator decides to not put the thing back up. What do you say ? Is it pressure from the feedback, bullying for quality, if the author was reluctant but still willing to try to change some things around ? Of course he took it down in a "ugh okay fine !" way, yet still trying to update the thing, see if it could improve. After all, if this is considered "pressure", then you really can't ever do any feedback - no, you aren't forced to be always super polite and walk on eggs all the time, sometimes it's okay to be a bit pushy ! Everyone's an adult and is responsible for accepting or rejecting what others tell them.
NoZ only told Gazira that he did something dickish by ignoring the response, but it's not like he barked orders at him or anything. He did try to talk it out. Gazira was allowed to just not do anything, but he first went with "I don't want any trouble" (which he can !) so he took it down for revision. And then he gave up.
There wasn't anything really bad with NoZ's attitude, and Gazira was allowed to take it down or leave it up. NoZ was pushy, Gazira was sheepish, it's too bad but it's not really anyone's fault. Just accept that Gazira gave up, it's life, shit happens.

If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.

Last Edit: September 07, 2014, 04:23:21 am by DKDC

Jmorphman

Re: Somebody goofed

#4911 September 07, 2014, 06:29:57 am

If you’re gonna reach for a star...
reach for the lowest one you can.

Feedback is different than pressure, I don't think there really needs to be an explanation of why the latter is frowned upon and the former is welcomed, or an explantion why the whole "walking on eggshells" thing is complete nonsense (but I'll do it anyway); it is astoundingly easy to give feedback in all sorts of tones (frustratedly, negatively, positively, angrily, politely, take your pick) without devolving into douchebaggery. There is a very clear boundary between the two, one that literally everyone can discern. No one's right to giving feedback is under attack here, that's just astonishingly] absurd.

But all of that is irrelevant, because that exchange wasn't about feedback at all, it was about petty, minor shit. Taking down an entire screenpack for a single animation, that was extensively edited from the original, that originally belonged to a user who has been inactive for several years, is absolutely a bad thing. This forum is a place where content development should be encouraged and spread; it should not be a place where works are taken down because people feel pressured into doing so. Because that is what happened: it is pretty clear that whatever Gazira decided to do after he first took it down, that the inciting incident that led him to take it down in the first place was that exchange with NoZ.

Bastard Wolf

Re: Somebody goofed

#4912 September 07, 2014, 06:42:23 am

Does this look like the face of mercy?

C.v.s The Abstract said, September 07, 2014, 01:17:28 am

Jmorphan is so mean now Lmao, what happen to the nice you when you first came to mugen >

mugen changes people

i just noticed everyone talkingh about the thing with gazira (or whatever his name is) and noz seem to be missing a point:

- gazira contacted noz asking him to use his flame effect
- noz said no because he got the flame effect from someone else
- gazira agrees and says he won't use it
- gazira slightly edits said effect anyway and uses it (but giving credit to noz so it's all cool)
- noz is not happy with this so he confronts gazira by pm and on his thread about it
- gazira says that despite the fact he agreed not to use the effect but used it anyway after agreeing not to it's all cool because he edited the effect and gave him credit
- passerbies are mad that the evil noz is coming to opress the goodwilling gazira (specially before they can download his screenpack).
- white knighting ensues

Hanging in there ⭐

NoZ

Re: Somebody goofed

#4913 September 07, 2014, 06:51:06 am

pain is weakness leaving the body

Look I think we should move on with this ok,everybody and their mothers put their 50 cents,It was a shitstorm,yes,should it been a shitstorm,no,I tried to resolve the situation via pm,in a nice way,civil,Gazira answered in the tread,thats when shit out of hand,while I did lose my temper,I did nothing wrong IMO,if he wanted to remove the link,that's his problem and his choice,ive talked to the guy for months before via pm,and he knew before hand that he could not use it,he still uses it months later,and well you all know what happened,please for the love of GOD just drop it and move on,if the guy releases it again later down the line then fine,its his choice,I respect everybody opinion here,but whe cant all agree here,specially if there is debate about open or closed source,nobody wins here

Jmorphman

Re: Somebody goofed

#4914 September 07, 2014, 06:53:55 am

If you’re gonna reach for a star...
reach for the lowest one you can.

Yep, everyone's said their peace here (some several times over, including moi), no real need to keep beating this dead horse.

Cobra Caddie

Re: Somebody goofed

#4915 September 07, 2014, 06:39:17 pm

Most Dangerous Mugen

I have a huge long post I'm typing out regarding the events of the past couple of days, you guys aren't gonna BELIEVE what I have to say about this issue.