The Mugen Fighters Guild - Show content

...well, if what you see RN is what you like, then fine. But why bothering even sharing with ungrateful crowd then?

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And at that I leave this thread, and will not visit it again. Not with where it's going and what I have to participate in because of that. If you'll need my help, or you want to show me an actual progress - do it via PMs.

Sigh... I'll try to be as productive with my feedback as possible... It's going to be hard, ESPECIALLY for a fellow SF1 fan seeing you doing it THIS dirty... But I'll try.
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I'll start off with common problems, that ALL the characters have, one way or another:
-Red Hitboxes. Dude, you don't need hitboxes like THESE. Much smaller hitboxes work just fine!

-Your Blue Hitboxes love to not exist often too. You DON'T do that, no matter what you want. If you want character to get invincible to something, or to slide through the enemy, there ARE codes for that. No need to give the character ultimate invincibility, especially when they're not supposed to.
-Misuse of Physics. A LOT of your moves, while implying jumping, are done mechanically as basic "move forward", which is BAD, especially since it IS clear you DO know how to work with physics, even on a basic level. It leads to a crap, that when you HIT the said enemy, instead of falling or anything he just stands on the ground, which easily breaks the illusion you've been doing here.
-Dude, why is your super moves' damage so BIG? You DO realuze that when you can repeat the same super move 3 times (and, BTW, seemingly infinite juggling), and it becomes Touch of Death, it's BAD? 3 Sun Hooks. And, as it turned out, I didn't even have to conrer the enemy.

OK, I'll go further from there WITHOUT repeating anything of this. If there is a bad hitbox or inadequate damage - it's up for you to find.
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Starting of with Ryu.
-His Standing LK has almost none recovery. [You know, the time period after his hitting frames are gone and until he enters State 0]. He does so almost intantly, allowing you to sneak literally any move afterwards. Even the ones you're NOT supposed to, like Crouching HK.
-While animation-wise your Crouching LK is fine, it's still positive enough for the same Crouching HK to combo. Perhaps you'd like to toy around with ground.hittime and guard.hittime in HitDef? These codes decide, for how long will enemy be in damage state after the hitpause.
-You REALLY need to tone down Shoryuken's X velocity. With hitboxes like shown above, it could very well be used instead ot Tatsumaki.
-I don't have to explain Tatsumaki. This shit doesn't even remotely work like that. Why did you do it THIS way?
-Dude, you just don't add velSet in StateDef, and etiher just use VelAdd at !time if you use Physics = A, or with VelAdd with animelemtime(X)>=0 and some really low, but positive Y value to imitate gravity with Physics = N. Could also use vel X in triggers too. The point is, your Air Tatsumaki physics is broken, and you need to fix that.
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-More shitty timings with Ken! Almost ALL of his Standing Normals have little to no Startup [In case you don't know, Startup is a period of time from the start of animation and up to the hitting frame] and Recovery! This results in INCREDIBLE comboability, with you being able to sneak in almost everything after almost everything, up to dealing 2 Hard Punches. Do I have to explain how wrong is that?
-The same thing with his Crouching Normals, except it's even worse here. I don't think it's a 1000 IQ move to allow Ken to SWEEP his enemy 10 TIMES IN A ROW! Not even because of questionable juggling management (which is a problem too), but because the move's both startup and recovery COMBINED are shorter than his Active frames [the attacking ones].

-Let me tell you about one more technique original games and good coders use. Call it "Lost Impact". It's when you use a single sprite (or many similar ones, if animation allows that) for multiple frame, with FIRST one being shorter and having a Red Hitbox, while the nest one NOT having it anymore, making it a part of Recovery. It's used in the moves we want to look heavy, but at the same time to make sure it WON'T hit the enemy when impact of animation is, logically, over. Shotos' Crouching HP is traditionel place for such technique, and you LACK it: Ken keeps his hand stretched out, but it's ALL an active frame, result in enemy getting hit by just coming at it or falling on the fist. While I addressed it at Ken, the OTHER character is much bigger offender in that regard.
-About his uppercut again, just a suggestion: since you use his wound-up sprite as an active one, again, you could very wehh make the hit animation for the enemy high, not low.
-You could have put a little bit more effort, and teither adapted Ryu's unique special moves' sprites to Ken, or edited Ken's classic poses over SF1'ish Ryu. But the way it is RN, it just creates an inconsistency for character, that always WERE conistent to each other.
-Same shoryuken and tatsus' problems as Ryu's.
-Your supers' damage is not only obnoxiously high, but it's all over the place for no reason too.
Shoryureppa, one of Ken's WEAKER supers because its good forward movements and good enough juggle potential make it easy to use, unlike closer ranged Shinryuken or often LVL3 Shippu Jinrai Kyaku. Yet it's the strongers super of his, heavily surpassing all of Ryu's supers, and, perpaps, it's the strongest super in the whole game, we'll see as we go further along.
-Dude. You did NOT have to put many efforts into making Ken a high kick to use in Shippu Jinrai Kyaku. Their top parts are absolutely f*cking identical!
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Just 2 characters, and a LOT to whine about. Off the good start, are we? We'll go in TRUE order of things, the next up is Retsu.
-Timings again... I swear, I would've put this in common problems if you wouldn't use some ready characters, which are much more streamlined in this matter. Retsu is as shitty in this regard as Ken, up to the point of the Legendary 10 Sweep Combo!

-With how Retsu's Jumping HK animation goes, you could use the same Impact Fixing. It's not a thrust that would work for jumps to have longer active frames, it's a side kick.
-Ichi Ni San... Dude, you really need to work for your new moves' names.
-Also this shows your lack of knowledge of ANOTHER fundamental rule of character design in Street Fighter: each version of special is different, but with you gaining something, you've go to lose something too. You see, Retsu with harder punches pressed goes faster adn does bigger damage. What does he trade for that though? Why should I use light version over his hard version, if it's legitimately the best version of special with no drawbacks whatsoever? Think over this, man.
-And one more thing. You're too prone too make the new moves for newcomers auto-combos. They often just move-in and do multiple attacks. Inci Ni San is literally the same deal as Chopping Palm, but it deals alightly more damage and is much better for juggling. Why should I use Chopping Palm over HP Ichi Ni San?
-And Switch Fist suffers the most from that. Another auto-combo, but it barely moves, unlike the previous 2, and deals the same smaller damage as Chopping Palm. See what I mean? You've desiger Retsu with, effectively, one special move. No reasons to use anything but HP Ichi Ni San.
-...AND Retsu's Shippu Ryukyaku takes away Shoryureppa's "Strongest Super" award with whooping 360 damage (to normal 250) AND being an auto-combo super with huge hitboxes that's oh how easy to use. So easy, in fact, that this super is a part of another Touch of Death combo. HP Inchi Ni San => Shippu Ryukyaku (right at the end of the previous move, while enemy is at the peak of its falling arc) => Ichi Ni San (if it connects all 3 hits) => Shippu Ryukyaku (same as before) => Shippu Ryukyaku.

-I can't do a RAW Dragon Strike with his LK. It works only if it's a cancel outta another move (Yes, Raw Super is just use of super, no combos, no cancels, nothing).
-Also, Dragon Strike is f*cking useless. What's the point of wall bounce, if huge movement of this move sets you TOO close to the enemy to do SOMETHING with that bounce? It's just a useless opportunity.
-Another point of Creativity for you, pal, because Raijin Kyaku is LITERALLY the same more as Dragon Strike, except it doesn't wall bounce, but sets for a juggle, which IS better, but again: all 3 of Retsu's specials are kicking move-ins, meaning that, again, you effectively made him with only one Super Move. People won't use Dragon Strike or Raijin Kyaku, because they've got a literasl Touch of Death named Shippu Ryukyaku, which works better, deals more damage and, with proper skill, can kill the enemy without giving him a chance! People work like that, man, we love to pick easier tools over harder ones!
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Welp, next goes Geki.
-Is it bad that I want to pat your head for getting most of his animations RIGHT, compared to the previous uggos? No crappy, unjustified not-chains because of ugly animation timings. The only problem that, perhaps should be in commons, is Juggling Sweep. But even THAT could be fixed by making Red HitBox smaller. I mean, I wasn't able to juggle it more than 9 times with this hugeass thing, while previous guys took no efforts to do so. You fix that, and it should be fine.

-I know you want his Jumping HP to have more active frames, but animation just doesn't allow that, can't you see? Having him freeze on this frame looks gross.

-You most likely don't know that, but in SF1 there was a detail about Geki that you failed to recreate. You see, you could actually punch away his shurikens. You get them with some punch or kick at just the right time, and they're punched away (not REFLECTED, I mind you, they fall to the ground in the end). This, most likely, is impossible to do with Projectile code, which means you'd need to learh now projectile coding with HELPERS work, that would do the trick, my Cody's Bad Stone is proof of that).
-I won't blame you for Rapid Slash looking ridiculour or it being another auto-combo slide-in, no. I'll blame you for, again, lack of versions' interchangeability. You gave no drawbacks to the stronger versions of the move, so I have no reasons to use anything but HP version.
-Same for Claw Upper.
-Fix his movelist, pal. It says that Ninja Divekick is air only, but it's actually ground only.
-You could just make his rising animation longer for MK and especially HK Ninja Divekick. Making it just rise faster gives harder versions of this move some unfair advantage.
-Just a suggestion: make that cloud of Smoke Bomb an Explod, not a part of animation. This way you can give the animation all the proper timing it needs.
-Another semi-problem if design: Shredder and Kicking Claw still a bit too similar in their core, with little reasons to use first one over the second one, with its higher placed and bigger hitboxes and them setting up for juggle. Each move is supposed to be a tool to achieve different objectives.
-And another Touch of Death! HP=>Rapid Slash=>Kicking Claw [3 times]=>HP=>Rapid Slash.

I'll give when it's deserved: Geki is MUCH better than what I've seen already. But don't get ahead of yourself, it's not even remotely good.
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Now for the most painful for me bastard in SF World, Luke.
-Your Crouching LP and LK a bit too positive, you can sneak in Crouching HP and Crouching HK after them. I WILL be hard, but it IS possible, and I'm not sure if you want that. Lights into Mediums are easuer, but they're acceptable.

-All his Jumping Normals could use some Impact Fixing.
-Something tells me, that hsi Rising Uppoercut could use a remake. You can CLEARLY see the moments of potential impact in 2 previous sprites. Plus, again, think about some Impact that's supposed to get lost in the frame you DID use.
-Dirty Punch keeps the unnatural impact too.
-Also, why. Why THIS of all attacks uses HIGH damage animation? You ahve a lot of that everywhere I didn't mention, even in Joe himself, but HERE it's VITAL to have it LOW!

-Dude, as far as I know anything about animating, Smear frames are supposed to be FAST. It's just a blank to show quick movement between to key poses. So, why in Sun Kick smear frame is THAT long? Also, Joe IS REEEEALY greedy for that impact, huh?
-Also, why am I supposed to use Sun Kick over Tornado Kick, again? The same moves, literally, but later one is better in every regard.
-Hook Kick is useless. Just delete it. You have Rising Uppercut to do LITERALLY the same, but to move in too (yeah, Joe is a character that moves a lot, I see, so a static special that just launches the enemy feels like an eyesore at this point).
-As it was shown at the beginning of the message, Joe got the easiest Touch of Death yet. Just to 3 Sun Hooks with proper timing. But it's not the only one of his, really. Tornado Got Smash is another REALLY strong one. So, HP=>Machine Gun Fist=>Tornado Gut Smash (Twice) => Sun Hook.

Yes, it's ALL about your supers damage, but that's the whole point: Joe is OP. Thanks for that, BTW, he deserves it for all the mistreat from Capcom. xD
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Mike is up, and OOOOH, BOOOOOY...
-Welp, I missed you, f*cked up animation timings! All the moves suck! HP=>HP=>HP. This combo should NOT exist, and you KNOW that. The beauty of 10 Sweeps in a row! And lots, LOTS of unjustified Impact for all of his airbourne normals!

-A fair heads up: no red hitbox is supposed to peek THAT far away from the sprite. I know, it falls under the same problem of crappy hitboxes I've settled in common, but HERE it feels a bit special.

-Also, I'm shocked. All yout characters literally consist of "move at the enemy" specials, but the moves, that are ltierally ripped offa Balrog, the specials that have "Rushing" in the name, stay at the same place? Why?
-It's unbelievable, but Mike is the first character, who has a move, that's NEGATIVE ON HIT! In the game, that literally consists of positive moves! If you'll HIT the enemy with Rishing Straight High or Low, enemy will recover SOONER than Mike and, can jab at him.
-I think I should've called "Lack of proper different between versions of the same move", but again, not all of the characters there are your clear work, so no. All the new moves, again, don't have that proper give-take relationships. So, again, no reasons to use any versions of special moves but HPs.
-"Rushing Bear". Do not rush.
-Touch of Death! At the mid-screen distance! Mike is a long lost son of Dhalsim confirmed!
HP=>Right Glove=>Right Glove Cross (3 times, with the right timing).

Of course, everything that requires Supers and Juggling is a Touch of Death, again. So, yeah...
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It's Lee's turn, and it's another more pleasant of surprises.
-Another solid wimings, with only ugly ducking being Crouching LK. It's too positive, you can sweep after that.
-Also, mandatory Sweep Combo, but because of stricter timings you can't get as much as other characters. Still, you shall not be able to combo from sweep AT ALL, especially into sweep itself.
-Dude, this is a SMEAR frame. I already explained how they work. Either make a good frame for what's after, or delete the smear, the first is clean enough to do that.

-Also, again, IMPACT.
-Dude, moves like Rolling Dragon Fist work NOT because they move faster, but because their animations are LONGER. You can NOT use the same animation for all the versions of the move, FFS! Use the built-in notepad in FF3 to copy-paste the animations so you could edit them afterwards.
-What even is the idea of Impact Fist? That Lee jumps over potential low attacks? Won't work here, with what hitboxes you're feeding us here.
-His supers are surprisingly diverse. Congratulations! Add the specials, that actually feel like different tools for different things, and we can declare that Lee is the best of forgotees so far in terms of moveset design. But, of course, we're not off the woods yes, because TOUCH OF DEATH! HP=>Rolling Impact Fist=>Dragon Kick=>Rising Dragon Tail=>Dragon Kick=>Rising Dragon Tail.

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You can't decieve me. Those are Varo_Hades' Birdie and Jmorphman's Eagle. Kinda funny to see them here after all the funny "They play only P.o.T.S. Style" talk, eh?
At any rate, these chars aren't by you, so no critics here but your decision to make Birdie's UNBLOCKABLE COMMAND GRABS as quarter circles. That's busted, man. Moves like these are NOT supposed to be dine this easily!
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If you ARE using other characters, might as well using Varo's or my Cody, especially since I RECOGNIZE my recources in here, you know. But nope, you went the HARDER way here, so take your prize:
-Normals are solid enough, aside from at this point common problem of very positive Crouching LK, Sweep Juggling and Impact that's supposed to be gone, but it isn't.
-Bad Stone is absolute f*cking ass. You've lost EVERYTHING it ever was.
-Tornado Upper is absolute f*cking ass. You've lost EVERYTHING it ever was.
-Bad Spray is negative on hit.
-Dude, at least call his "D, DB, B, k" a "Double Tornado". "Tornado Kick" is already taken by Joe's move, which is NOT the same as what you've got for Cody here.
-You could have listed these Dodge attempts you do at "B, D, DB, B, p or k" in Movelist. But why do you have LOW and HIGH versions, if the Invul factor is done via lack of Blue HitBox? They're both equally and absolutely invincible. Plus, bonus pounts for using his guard crush animation, while Cody HAS proper dodge animations, thanks to his V-Ism feature.
-Sigh... And here I thought Cody has no Touch of Death... He has, and the DIRTIEST one so far. All the prevous characters at least had dignity not to hit the floored enemy.
HP=>HK Tornado Kick=>Final Tornado (2 times, connect with the 1st hit)=>let the enemy fall and lye on the ground=>spit at him with Super Bad Spray.

Overall Cody really IS on a more solid side of the roster. But again, if he would be standalone the way he is, he would get destroyed.
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Sagat and Adon I skip for the same reasons as Birdie and Eagle. These are DW's Sagat and MY Adon. Or, at the VERY least, Varo's edits of these. So, I, at least, hope they didn't inherit the problems your OWN works got. Just a LITTLE problem with Sagat though: he is NOT supposed to have Tiger Uppercut and Tige Genocide yet. Lore-wise, he started devising these moves AFTER he got the scar from Ryu's Shoryuken.
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Oh, Abigail... I could say he looks absolutely horrible, but I won't. I understand, what spriting is.
-Dude. Each version of move its own animation. You won't get the way you need to by using a single animation for all the versions of a single move. This goes for Dynamite Punch and both Nytro Hungabees and Drop Back. Keep the speed the same, or SLIGHTLY faster, but allow him make more goddamn steps in animations!
-I can't do his Nitro Charge.
-I might be dumb, but doesn't Abigail have hyper-armor? That's the only reason I can think of for him to SOMEHOW survive with all these moves he got, with longass startups to the point the won't even combo from cancelable normals.
-I'm surprised. Abigal, the character, who has ACTUAL Touches of Death in SFV itself, has none here. None of his specials combo from normals, the only specual that doesn't knock down is Nitro Hungabee (and that doesn't cancel), the only way for you to combo from Special to Super is to OTG with Nitro Crusher and Giant Flip Slam (and you WON'T have enough time to kill with OTGs here), simple juggles with Nitro Crusher without SOMETHING but HP is not enough to kill, and Abigail Special, being grab that doesn't work in combos, entirely irrelevant. Congratulations!
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I am so tires... Lucia.
-You've listed wrong command for Hurricane Spinner in movelist.
-Is her Fire Kick supposed to just freeze in the air?
Other than that, she is surprisignly solid too. Congrats?
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Poison. DW. Skip.
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You did NOT have to make Zeku secret, you know. Or you didn't, since he is in the movelists, but why isn't he in the open roster yetm but hidden outside the screen?
-Man, all of his moves have BUSTED. You're planning on him being local Akuma, huh? Won't work, man, sometimes slower and more fluid movement if dangerous than Flying Crush basically releporting at the other end of the screen to kick your face.
-Can't do Wind Slide.
-Yes, Zeku is one of your more solid characters again, I see. But I'm still ending it with our main phrase of today: TOUCH OF DEATH!
LP=>KM=>Quick Run (allow both hits to connect)=>Bushinryu Barrage=>True Dragon Tornado=>Bushinryu Barrage (enemy must be as close to the earth as possible for this to work).

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So, yeah. I think you get the idea that you've got a LONG way to go yet before this becomes something... well, something. And the main problems here come, if you'll ask me, from your lack of understanding of basic FG theory, of how FGs, including SF, are supposed to work. Wacky timings of animations, wacky hitboxes, wacky damage dealing, wacky moveset designs, wacky EVERYTHING. A LOT of these mistakes would be easily avoided if it would be otherwise. So, I suggest you mostly to go, and try learning some of that theory before you try that again, OK? DO NOT let my rant here discourage you, but use it to become better. (Sigh... There goes my evening)

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Trololo

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