The Mugen Fighters Guild
M.U.G.E.N Central => M.U.G.E.N Discussion => Topic started by: Sir Ghostler on March 01, 2016, 08:46:18 am
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There are a lot of members of the community who give good quality feedback to a number of creations from time to time. Throughout it, there are a lot of different opinions on how said feedback should be given to creators, whether they are new or if they have been present in the community for a reasonable amount of time.
Some members prefer to be blunt about their feedback and thoughts about a creation, some just give the bare-bones feedback with nothing else to say, some are harsh with their words and some members just sugarcoat it.
A lot of you at one stage or another have seen debate and arguments about whether blunt or harsh feedback helps the creator or ultimately is detrimental to them, the same applies to when feedback is sugarcoated.
How do you think people should give feedback? This isn't a thread to change or flame someone else's views on the matter, it's just to gain insight into their opinions.
Discuss.
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Feedback should be exactly that. Feedback. It depends on what you're offering it for, but if it's a critique on the technicals of something like coding, it should be offered by someone who knows what they're talking about and can possibly assist or offer incite to fixes or improvements. Someone offering feedback should also try to imagine what the creator of something is going for and try to offer advice to help them reach their goal in a more successful way, or at least offer more ideas based on the creators own thoughts and ideas, instead of having your own opinion on something and how it should be based solely on preference and biased opinions. If someone is trying to make Wolverine play like a DBZ Tenkaichi character, don't tell them they shouldn't, or that it's bad and you haven't even played DBZ TK yourself. Help them make Wolverine play like a DBZ TK character if you know how. If you don't, don't say anything. If you do, have it be ideas that you can offer, or something else at least remotely useful to the creator. Posting opinions is a pointless endeavor, unless your simply offering appreciation. Even too much of that can hinder a creator. My friend is literally the best guitarist I've ever seen, and I've seen tons of the greats, including Dimebag Darrell, and David Gilmore, and he smokes them. Not a bias statement either. He gets pissed off at me if I tell him he's amazing at guitar too often cause he says you can only be so good if you're not humble. Meaning, if you tell someone they're awesome too much and give them too much praise, they might begin to agree, and will stop trying to be better or try new things. Anyways, enough of my rambling. Everyone should know how to offer feedback in a socially acceptable manner. It really isn't rocket science to get your point across on something, and not be a dick about it. I've seen it done. Ask yourself if you respond better to someone being cool and respectable to you when they talk to you, or if you prefer it when people laugh and talk shit and belittle you. Whatever your answer is, do that with everyone else, and there should be nothing but steady progress in the future for everyone, assuming you prefer the non-douche bag path.
Edit:
Forgot to mention, for the ones receiving said feedback, don't be so sensitive if someone says they don't like something or if someone offers a new idea to try. If you can't handle someone not liking every thing you release in the public 100%, don't offer it to a bunch of people that breath feedback whenever something is released. That's kind of what we do here in these old release forums of ours. It's just how it goes. I can understand getting pissed if someone is a total prick about their views and feel like sharing them with you, but if it's just someone saying, "sprites could use improvement", or "his leg looks weird in that shot" or whatever, grow a backbone for Christ's sake. I've seen authors pack up and leave just cause others said it wasn't accurate or some minor insult about one of their creations or something, and it just makes me lose all respect for them. Dust those chumps off, and keep improving.
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How do you think people should give feedback?
Depends on the creator. I believe one should never be harsh to a newb because it comes across as being unwelcoming. Being that way with feedback isn't my thing because ultimately, it's a hobby on a engine with silly edits and cheap god-mods among other things.
I also think it depends on how receptive a creator is and the willingness to improve their works, beginners and experts alike. Naturally people will be more inclined to assist someone who acknowledges people's advice and suggestions. I'm gonna guess this thread was partly inspired by a certain someone making characters again ( :P ). I just ignore it all because it's evident that person in question enjoys the creations as is and other do too (abhorrent quality notwithstanding), which is all that matters at the end of the day. Just feel good knowing that no logical person would say that those creations are done better than chars that went through more refinement.
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feedback's golden rule:
2 positive items per 1 negative item
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IMO, many (and I say many) creators should think about how feedback should be received instead.
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feedback's golden rule:
2 positive items per 1 negative item
What if it has chuchoryu level quality very little redeeming features?
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IMO, many (and I say many) creators should think about how feedback should be received instead.
this is an issue as well, but it doesn't preclude the fact that giving feedback should be a tactful, respectful exercise or there is no incentive to receive the feedback in kind.
feedback should be
- as thorough as your knowledge of the character is
- respectful, but still critical
- withheld if you feel it will not be heeded
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- withheld if you feel it will not be heeded
This is the reason why so many evaluators stopped giving feedback. Me included.
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You should also make good that the creator knows what you're talking about, especially if they're new to making Mugen creations. Feedback is only as helpful as it is comprehensible.
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it's because they are already content with what they have done, mugen is not a paying job so as long as the charcter works for a creator that's enough; one's persons crouching while running is another person's change it to pots style.
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Mega hyper sexually.
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+ Constructive Feedback
- Bullshit/insults/random things who doens't are related to the release itself
Just that.
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CLSNs are my biggest fetish.
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it's because they are already content with what they have done, mugen is not a paying job so as long as the charcter works for a creator that's enough; one's persons crouching while running is another person's change it to pots style.
While I get this, it also shows who has passion and who doesn't which I believe is important in not just Mugen creating but many things in general.
That said, feedback should be straight to the point with no fluff. Use visuals if you can since they help out.
A small praise might be nice, but not if there's so much wrong.
On the other hand, certain people need to stop being as whiny and thin skinned as SJWs in tumblr.
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I´m recently a newbie about Mugen editions and creations. In the last week, I had some problems about some stupid things because, I had problems about my personal life, my lack of experience about making good stuff and my bad english knowledge . :P
Actually I have changed(except the english, for the moment...) and now I´m very open about feedbacks and critics. :)
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You like going off-topic, don't you?
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No, why?! 0_0
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fluff/praise is pointless unless given in earnest and certainly shouldn't get in the way of helping the creator improve
straight insults and personal attacks are never called for, typically only serving to stroke the poster's ego
note; explaining a problem with the char/stage/whatever, why something doesn't feel right, why you don't particularly like how something was executed, etc. are not insults
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Its pointless giving feedback unless while doing it you try to put down the author and show off as better than them!!
Nothing personell , kid.
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Ops, sorry my derail*facepalm*
For me a feedback should be:
-Respectfull.
-The critic should be an expert and specific.
-And he/she shouldn´t troll me.
And now are we happy?
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haiku form only
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You don't need to dwell on all the positives. Never insult either the creator or the creation itself although you can certainly include things like
His level 3 super deals 800 damage and is unblockable, this should really be toned down, any attack dealing that much damage is classed as a bit shitty in terms of balance
Which doesn't insult the creator, or the character, just the concept you dislike.
If you can point out a solution to something you see as a problem, do so. Even if you know they're good enough to fix it themselves, point it out, that way they don't need to go searching to work out what the heck you're talking about
He can't combo from crouching to standing on his HP but he can for every other move, you need to change the command changestate to statetype != A and use triggerall = command != "holddown" to indicate a standing move
When you're done pointing out anything that looks or feels wrong in some way you can fanboy for a little bit. This is all the personal stuff like enjoying the sprites or moves you find cool. I find this gets the most acceptance as a feedback method. Except for a few creators who ignore any and all feedback of course, don't bother with them, just let their threads die.
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Pretty much what Cyanide said but I doubt very much I could've put it the way he explained it. However, here are my 2 cents on how feedback should be given.
It should be given in a basic and respectful way and provide an example of the code you suggest the creator should put if you're gonna point out the issue with a character. Not all creators will understand right away the issue given so, as I said, provide the example of the code and explain the issue and how it was caused. I feel showing examples of the code while giving feedback is the best way. I've seen and posted in threads where creators tend to lash out at the feedback-giver for pointing out a flaw with the character's coding. That clearly tells you the creator is unwilling to fix the mistakes and improve. So like Cyanide said, don't bother with them.
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I second what Cyanide and DarkWolf13 said; it really is a great idea to include examples of your feedback.
Constructive criticism can be really great for people and can be very motivating, while mean-spirited and useless nagging definitely discourages growth as a creator and a group member.
I think another good thing to do would be to offer encouragement as well as the examples of what can be fixed; that way, the person actually knows someone cares and isn't just trying to rag on them.
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Unfortunately, there's two sides to it. I like to give more facts than praise unless I really think that something is great. That could easily come across as blunt. There are some people who can take it at face value and others who take it personally. There's nothing we can do about that though. I think feedback should be just the facts. Praise is praise and shouldn't be included in feedback. Having that said, it's all in wording.
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well if I may also give my 2 cents..
How do you think feedback should be given?
Honest and interesting to read. and not - how many like to handle it - kinda arrogant or sarcastic.
I don't really care if it's on- or off topic tho - as long as it's an interesting read.. :cool3:
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well if I may also give my 2 cents..
How do you think feedback should be given?
Honest and interesting to read. and not - how many like to handle it - kinda arrogant or sarcastic.
I don't really care if it's on- or off topic tho - as long as it's an interesting read.. :cool3:
So for all you care they could talk about ice cream or what they eat for lunch in a release topic and it would be fine? I don't get it.
For me:
- listing all problems in the character; sometimes I give some tips to fix that or those bugs, that might help him/her;
- if the author/feedback receiver listens and asks for an explanation, tell him/her what's wrong in detail.
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So for all you care they could talk about ice cream or what they eat for lunch in a release topic and it would be fine? I don't get it.
I'd prefer 'what's your favorite waifu' as discussion topic, but yeah, generally yes.
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Man I just had the sickest smoothie for lunch
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Good for you. (https://forum.encyclopediadramatica.se/data/medal/166_1438830790l.jpg)
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You call that constructive feedback?
Listen a smoothie for lunch is not necessarily a good idea, regardless of how sick it may be. In fact I'd be inclined to say that his lunch is a piece of shit and barely qualifies as a lunch at all. It should be fixed or I am never bothering with his shitty lunches again.
Looking forward to your next meal in progress though!
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Man I just had the sickest smoothie for lunch
Good for you. (https://forum.encyclopediadramatica.se/data/medal/166_1438830790l.jpg)
oh f*ck, you owned me. you owned me so bad... :dunce2:
edit: then again, that maybe wasn't the most elaborate statement I've ever made after all.. :mlol:
I still stick with 'no arrogant or sarcastic attitude in your feedback please' , tho
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with a beer and alright catering