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Warnings v2 (Read 2876527 times)

Started by Valodim, February 07, 2010, 09:40:57 pm
Re: Warnings v2
#1481  February 12, 2013, 11:47:30 pm
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Re: Warnings v2
#1482  February 13, 2013, 12:37:42 am
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Re: Warnings v2
#1483  February 13, 2013, 01:41:26 am
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Your constant opposition to every decision is more obnoxious than it is helpful. You can let the gimmick go, we will still like you if you don't oppose everything.

Really?  Expecting all of us to follow the same procedure and apply the rules fairly and equally to everyone is obnoxious?

Re: Warnings v2
#1484  February 13, 2013, 07:18:58 am
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That's not what I said at all. I'm not sure if you're now doing your oblivious gimmick, or if you can't understand that I said that your constant, never-failing gimmick to oppose everything is obnoxious, not following procedure. Can't see how anyone could twist those words you just quoted. =/

Mog

Re: Warnings v2
#1485  February 13, 2013, 03:32:12 pm
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I have never made a secret that I think a ban should only be used as a last resort.  I think this staff bans too quickly and for unreasonable lengths.  I think there has been a shift towards mean and nasty, and a cliquish community where perceived unlikable people are run off.  I'm not saying this place IS that way, I said I'm seeing a shift towards that.  And every time I see it, I think the cool kids found another Piggy.

It takes more work to correct behavior that is damaging the community and that should start with the staff.  We ban someone for 3 days and discuss if it should be longer and we do that for every single ban.  We need to discourage "shit poster" comments, we need to discourage "ban this person" demands, and we shouldnt allow "worst poster" polls.

 
Re: Warnings v2
#1486  February 13, 2013, 04:41:01 pm
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Shift toward nasty? Let me give you an example of how you're wrong:

Take this topic for example:
http://mugenguild.com/forum/topics/leaving-so-soon-148069.0.html

Two years ago, if that topic was made, especially with a user with that history, the topic starter would get a bunch of sarcastic replies about how no one cares and how it's better to leave in the shadows. Instead, we have people being courteous and acknowledging. Shift toward nasty?

I remember when someone would get bashed until oblivion for warehouses (I slightly remember), but here people are even posting their warehouses so others can use them and help each other. http://mugenguild.com/forum/topics/mugen-websites-2013-147009.0.html

We have new users like can and C.A.N, G.o.D, Erroratu,a dn CVSBN who are trying their best to be helpful for no other reason than just to be helpful. People being encouraging. People caring. People contributing and getting recognized by their peers. What else do you want?

Because a few users like HJK come along once in a while and nest for a few days or months, act horrible, and then get banned MONTHS later, things are shifting toward nasty? Staff is being too quick to ban? Are you serious? HJK had 5 years to change, got more than his share of chances. What else do you think is gonna happen that will make him change? That will make anyone change after that amount of time with not even a little change?

Sure, a couple of us staff members, including I, have acted out recently, but those are mostly one time things and the general user base knows it's wrong because they called us out on our shit. Iced stopped editing people profiles for humor, GOH stopped telling people to die, Jmorphman won't post porn anymore, and I won't go too far with my jokes. Users are not following us because they are also the ones that recognized our faults.

People will always say that a user should be banned -- this has never affected staff decisions on banning someone, and I can't think of any examples of when it did. I doubt that you can.

You can't excuse your annoying, obnoxious gimmicks by saying, "You are all becoming nasty, I'm trying to save the community." You aren't doing anything, actually. What exactly are you doing to contribute to the community? Nagging staff? Making posts in the All That's Left Section? You're pointing fingers at everyone else becoming nasty and not doing anything to help, and you haven't done anything even remotely significant - at all - ever. So what's your deal? You're basically just a needle in a lion's paw.

Mog

Re: Warnings v2
#1487  February 13, 2013, 05:02:52 pm
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Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

Try again, and this time have the maturity to disagree and discuss without resorting to personal insults.
Re: Warnings v2
#1488  February 13, 2013, 09:03:01 pm
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Personal insults? Are you serious? There are no insults, there are comments on your personal behavior, which is the whole subject of this conversation. Maybe next time YOU can have the maturity to read faults about your own self without being personally insulted to the point of being offended.

You're just avoiding every point in my post because you can't find a counter argument for them, especially for the part about you complaining about making the community better, and you yourself having done absolutely nothing to contribute to it being better.

Or I may be wrong, this may just be your "oblivious, I don't care, I'm a troll" gimmick; who even knows anymore.
Re: Warnings v2
#1489  February 13, 2013, 09:21:31 pm
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I have never made a secret that I think a ban should only be used as a last resort.  I think this staff bans too quickly and for unreasonable lengths.  I think there has been a shift towards mean and nasty, and a cliquish community where perceived unlikable people are run off.  I'm not saying this place IS that way, I said I'm seeing a shift towards that.  And every time I see it, I think the cool kids found another Piggy.
It is something that we need to pay a great deal of attention towards, but... I honestly don't think that the staff has anything to do with that. I'm not even sure if the community as a whole is being more cliquey; I sort of feel like it has, but I think that's just because I've become more aware of the existing cliquishness then anything else.

Jmorphman won't post porn anymore
That wasn't porn.

IT WAS SEXUALLY EXPLICIT CONTENT >:[

Mog

Re: Warnings v2
#1490  February 13, 2013, 10:32:45 pm
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I dont think the staff is causing the cliquishness, but I dont think we are helping move away from it either.  Some people are always going to see  "us vs them" when it comes to staff and if we always follow the same procedure of 3 day ban and discuss it will cut down on us giving the appearance of being biased.  Nothing will make us all think the same way or do away with our biases, but following procedure IS important.



Re: Warnings v2
#1491  February 13, 2013, 10:44:49 pm
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I do completely agree that we need to follow the procedures we agreed upon for all cases, no matter what. And for cases like hjk, where the poster is pretty much contained and not a real "threat" as it were, I think we should post here about banning them before the 3 day ban (I forget if this is what we agreed to as well)

Mog

Re: Warnings v2
#1492  February 13, 2013, 10:58:08 pm
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I dont know as we agreed to discuss bans before the ban.  I guess if several of us happen to be on and see whats going on and it's contained....   

Re: Warnings v2
#1493  February 13, 2013, 11:00:18 pm
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I do completely agree that we need to follow the procedures we agreed upon for all cases, no matter what. And for cases like hjk, where the poster is pretty much contained and not a real "threat" as it were, I think we should post here about banning them before the 3 day ban (I forget if this is what we agreed to as well)

I don't think it's necessary to deliberate over the preliminary ban.  If we start running back to confer with everyone before we do every little thing, we'll never get anything done.  That's why it's only set at 3 days.  So we can make that judgement call, and then come back to determine how to proceed from there.
Re: Warnings v2
#1494  February 13, 2013, 11:20:57 pm
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i will take this moment to point out that yall still havent decided if hes getting permabanned or not, or if not, the lenght of his ban.
You should be less worried about arguing procedure and more worried about actually ACTING OUT and doing stuff, imo.
2 pages of arguing about preliminary bans, even if i agree that procedure should be followed, doesnt exempt anyone from taking part into arguing the ACTUAL ban.
Cmon.
Re: Warnings v2
#1495  February 13, 2013, 11:27:24 pm
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I didn't?  I thought I had.  Well then, yeah, permaban HJK.  He is terrible for the sake of being terrible, and he clearly has no intention of ever changing.

Mog

Re: Warnings v2
#1496  February 13, 2013, 11:27:40 pm
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I do NOT think he deserves a permaban for spamming in the shit thread.  I know me saying a week is unreasonable, but I don't think he deserves a permaban
Re: Warnings v2
#1497  February 13, 2013, 11:32:20 pm
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It is NOT just for what happened in the shit thread.  Stop trying to claim that it is.  It's the result of everything he's been doing for a very long time.  He constantly tries to start fights in every thread he posts in, he frequently posts unwarranted, unprovoked attacks on other users just to cause a reaction, and he has a history of making multiple fake accounts for the express purpose of trolling that stretches back literally for years.

Frankly I don't understand how he wasn't permabanned years ago.
Last Edit: February 13, 2013, 11:35:53 pm by Person Man
Re: Warnings v2
#1498  February 13, 2013, 11:38:35 pm
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I thought our new system would be that we ban for a short time and discuss long term bans first, with no long term bans outside of extreme cases. That way sounds like a good system to me. HJK's ban is set for 388 days from now, that's a bit long to be considered a 'preliminary ban'. The problem with something like this is I don't feel like he should be banned permanently, but I know when he comes back it won't take long for him to go back to stuff like this. In fact that was his whole gimmick last time he was banned. Plus there was all those attempts at ban evasion. I wouldn't object to a permanent ban for him.

Even after what I said about preliminary bans, if he isn't gonna be gone for good the time you have set coincidentally seems reasonable for his offenses. Getting a consensus beforehand still seems like a better idea though. I'm mixed on that too because I do trust yall to make good judgment calls. Maybe there's a compromise in here somewhere.
Re: Warnings v2
#1499  February 13, 2013, 11:40:49 pm
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I do NOT think he deserves a permaban for spamming in the shit thread.  I know me saying a week is unreasonable, but I don't think he deserves a permaban

why are you ignoring the subject and just focusing on what he did last?
What are you trying to do ?

Thats like saying Navana was banned over lying to people once.
Re: Warnings v2
#1500  February 13, 2013, 11:43:15 pm
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I dont think the staff is causing the cliquishness, but I dont think we are helping move away from it either.  Some people are always going to see  "us vs them" when it comes to staff and if we always follow the same procedure of 3 day ban and discuss it will cut down on us giving the appearance of being biased.  Nothing will make us all think the same way or do away with our biases, but following procedure IS important.




Yeah, continue to ignore my points

I have gotten two messages from two different users who agree that all you do is nag about things -- every single time we make a decision -- and you contribute absolutely nothing to the forum, and thus, nothing to Mugen, in any way whatsoever. I don't know if they want me to quote them yet or if they're speak for themselves, but I'll wait on it. For the time being:

You don't participate in Mugen projects (not the section, actual projects)
You don't participate in the Mugen sections
You don't participate in Mugen contests or artwork regarding Mugen
You don't participate in helping people learn Mugen
You have NEVER participated in ANY of those things outside of some measly commentary about once or twice a month, and if it's more than that, then it's still not often enough because I can't see it happening.

What you actually do is:

Oppose every decision made by staff as if you have the golden rule book of how things should be run.
Oppose every action made by staff as a gimmick because you enjoy being the opponent.
Act oblivious to situations when you know absolutely well what's going on.
Make posts in the all that's left section that are either you acting oblivious or you actually being oblivious.
Oppose staff some more on completely legitimate actions like banning members who have offended the forum for what seems to be a decade.
Tells us the community is becoming mean, while the community is actually becoming better and provides no examples to support your claim.
Tell us that you're pointing out our meanness shift so the forum won't get mean while contributing nothing but nag, nag, nag and no action or participation in Mugen or actually making the forum better.

I mean this with all due respect, you are quite useless in a Mugen community. I can't think of any reason why you would even want to BE in a Mugen community, and I should be able to think of a legitimate reason that involves something even remotely related to Mugen.

Stop trying to wiggle your way out of the discussion by labeling me immature. Actually, I am very mature, and you can't sit there and actually believe that I am being immature right now while you're on some grand pedestal. The fact is that you're not better than anyone here, and you don't get to just label somebody wrong or childish while maintaining some false sense of respect and leverage over who even knows what.

Quite frankly, I actually don't want you to be a staff member anymore. You don't represent anything. No one can go to your for any type of help related to anything that is related to the point of this forum. I don't know how this makes me look, but it's pretty much what I think and it has nothing to do with power or whatever else youbor anyone else wants to make it about. It's simply, just, like, why? Why?