Dude, don't care about the actual stats. It's a party game masquerading as a fighting game, with enough going for it that it can pass as one when some rules are set down. Pick a character you like. I do doubt you do not like a single character in Nintendo's vast, broad history. And I get being miffed at some design aspects, we were talking before about Zelda being swapped to A Link Between Worlds/A Link To The Past, and how somehow Nintendo still doesn't want to move on from Other M to represent Metroid, but they're still the characters you enjoy there.If I cared about stats or ranking or that nonsense, I wouldn't be revisiting Smash Wii U currently trying to figure out how Duck Hunt even works so I can play him in Ultimate.MR. IBZS II said, June 26, 2018, 06:40:04 amAlso "they know what they're doing"? Uh, Cloud, Bayonetta, Pac-Man, and Falco.Elaborate what you're even talking about, or you're just talking gibberish.
I mean, I like Mario. But he doesn't Cap Throw as an attack, he doesn't Ground Pound, he generally doesn't jump like he does in the games... So it's pretty much not Mario. And he's the only Nintendo series I still enjoy to this day, I've moved onto Mugen characters otherwise.Also, Cloud and Bayonetta = Extremely broken.Pac-Man = So glitchy it feels like he's a character from Smash Flash 1.Falco = Bottom tier and underpowered.
Have you not seen the Cloud and Bayo nerfs in 5? (Granted Bayo looks like she might still be a problem atm, but seems like the team's working on it.)What do you mean by Pac Man being glitchy? The only thing that could possibly be considered a "glitch" at this point is his worthless grab, which has gotten buffs in 5. Any actual glitch got fixed through patches.The other changes we've seen in Smash 5 so far seems promising in regards to character buffs. Long John Killer said, June 26, 2018, 06:42:56 amIf I cared about stats or ranking or that nonsense, I wouldn't be revisiting Smash Wii U currently trying to figure out how Duck Hunt even works so I can play him in Ultimate.It's fine to play competitively while still running a character you enjoy, even if they're not that good. Choosing a top tier character is dandy and all, but unless one's striving to compete on ZeRo's level, they might not enjoy the game as much compared to if they'd play a character they truely enjoy.
Nah. Didn't look at their reveals at all. Pac was just poorly made in general in 4, especially going by what modders have said looking at his data...
Any specific examples for Pac Man?The only thing that I can think of that's outright awfully made is his grab.
They had said his frame data, specifically his aerials, and hitboxes, like his side-special... His Final Smash was terrible in 4. His smash attacks were weak and slow, that old up-tilt was awful, thankfully they... Made it an uppercut by the looks of things.
I reiterate.Long John Killer said, June 26, 2018, 06:42:56 amDude, don't care about the actual stats. It's a party game masquerading as a fighting game, with enough going for it that it can pass as one when some rules are set down. Pick a character you like.Seriously, if the worst you can place on Mario is that his jump is not frame-for-frame perfect to Super Mario games and that he doesn't carry over possession-based abilities from Odyssey, which would clearly be broken, you're looking at the game wrong. He looks like Mario, he acts like Mario, it's Mario. You even got a Doctor variant for previous Smash players.
My main issue with Mario in Smash is FLUDD and Mario Finale. The rest was just nitpicking, even by my standards. Yes, I can just turn off Smash Balls and not press Down-B, but that doesn't mean they're not there.
But what is your issue with those moves? FLUDD may have only appeared as an integral character in one game, but it at least gives him something unique over Luigi and Dr. Mario's lariats, plus it has its use as a pretty good edgeguarding tool (though maybe less so in Ultimate with the (re)introduction of directional air dodges). If your issue with Mario Finale is that Mario has never used such in his games, the same can be said for a fair few Final Smashes.
MR. IBZS II said, June 26, 2018, 06:59:56 am Pac was just poorly made in general in 4, especially going by what modders have said looking at his data...So this isn't an opinion you arrived at yourself, you're just parroting what you heard other people say about frame data and are passing it off as if you know what you're talking about? Gotcha.
Technically, I figured it out by how lacking in aerial tools or power he is. Some consider it an intentional weakness, but he doesn't even have a "true" spike or anything that sends the opponent downwards aside from one custom and one part of that silly trampoline.I never liked FLUDD because Brawl was my first Smash game. And there, FLUDD was completely worthless. You could clash with the water, effectively ruining it's only intended purpose. I never got used to it in 4, it always felt too whack and "dirty". My main issue with Mario Finale is, again, it was worthless in Brawl. It's much easier to get used to unlike FLUDD though.
Sounds like all your complaints about this game are based on a completely different game from ten years ago.
Eh, good point. Now that I know what Pac-Man does, I have nothing to lose from trying this out on it's own merits, I suppose.
I have no trouble with the large number of characters in a fighting game. Sure I have favorites but it really doesn't hurt to give every available fighter a try and that's what I like to do in Smash, thanks to the Random option. It allowed me to experience how the character fights and how to unleash their potential in the best of my ability as possible.@MR. IBZS II Now I don't understand the issue you have with some fighters just because they don't have stuff brought over from their games. So what if Mario can't damage enemies by simply jumping on them or throwing Cappy to control someone (which will be super broken by Smash standards). It's pretty cool to see that Mario and Luigi can actually fire a fireball WITHOUT the help of a Fire Flower. As for Mario Finale, it's quite unique to Mario cuz you don't see him doing the cool moves he does in Smash in the other games, do you?I don't know about Cloud but I think Bayo won't be able to be as broken in Ultimate as she was in 4 cuz I read what possible nerfs were done on her regarding her combo tactics. Also noticed Fox might've been nerfed as well since his Dtilt and Ground Fox Illusion have more end lag, leaving him more open if he misses or gets blocked. Fox's my main in 4 and he'll be my main in Ultimate until I unlock Wolf.
Bayo's definitely getting nerfed. During the invitational one of the players literally carried the opponent to the blast zone at the top of the screen with a single combo and Sakurai shook his head and just said "this isn't the final build."
Top players who got to play Ultimate at E3 have gone as far as saying Cloud is now bad, if that means anything.