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[Theme Thread] Z2 Sprite thread (Read 1081324 times)

Started by AlexSin, October 14, 2012, 11:57:57 am
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MotorRoach

Re: [Theme Thread] Z2 Sprite thread
#1361  July 11, 2017, 10:18:34 pm
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Yoshin222 said, July 11, 2017, 10:01:44 pm
though of course studying general anatomy is always useful

This is probably something you should focus upon yourself, Yoshin. The sentiment of wanting to lend someone help and advice is a good one, and your heart is at the right place, although you still have a lot to learn yourself. Just take my word on this, but you're not ready to give feedback yet. Try to take your own advice, and learn anatomy before spriting and giving advice on spriting, and by then, you'll have a better way with words when lending people a hand.

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Yoshin222

Re: [Theme Thread] Z2 Sprite thread
#1362  July 11, 2017, 10:26:10 pm
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I appreciate that, and i assure you i am doing as such

Nert/Captain Unprofessional

Re: [Theme Thread] Z2 Sprite thread
#1363  July 12, 2017, 01:56:21 am
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(Sorry for indirectly causing so much arguing)

Yoshin222 said, July 11, 2017, 05:06:33 pm
The shading has no anti aliasing at all, it makes it look flatter, more like SFA more than Z2. On top of that the colors are outright used in a different way altogether for Z2, i'd suggest looking up CVS to get a feel for how it should be more akin to. His hands are way too big for him, as i recall him being rather slender (copy pasting hands? Not a wise idea trust me on that one} on top of that his overall pose is just kinda wonky, the entirety of his body is facing the viewer but his head and feet are to the right. Another thing to note is that the lightsource is from directly above, but the shading doesn't really imply that. I'd suggest redrawing the line art and trying again, good luck dude

I definitely rushed this and didn't pay much attention to the Z2 style.
I know others are saying that your criticisms are rather harsh, but it's my fault for not providing explanations for the questionable elements of the sprite (i.e. the anti-aliasing)

For starters:
I am an artist (I know my profile pic may suggest otherwise, but a silly profile picture lowers expectations). I've studied anatomy and I recognized the errors with the sprite that you pointed out (like the pose, proportions, etc., etc.). The issues come from:
A) Imitating the Z2 style with little study and "the shading comes from above" & "the hands are big and the bodies are bulky" as my only descriptions from people who use the style. I exaggerated the already exaggerated elements.
B) This is my first time trying to make sprites. I know it's odd to jump in to something so challenging from the start, but I was planning to just rely on my art experience to make it work. I'll actually use them in V2 (more on that later).

Also, about the lack of anti-aliasing:
The program I used (FireAlpaca) has anti-aliasing tied to a check box. I can't control it and don't have the space on my laptop for another program and have become too accustomed to it for my normal art for me to replace it.

The pose is imitating this:

I want to give Zamasu a semi-relaxed version of it because I want his basic punches to be ki-blade slashes and his basic kicks to be invisible shockwave-style ki blasts.
I didn't use the exact angle as the image out of laziness (I think you'll see this is a common problem, again, I'll explain how this won't be a problem later)
I also didn't include the "halo" because I want to either reserve it for his DD, Y+B or just his Supers and EX Moves.

Fixes:
I can't promise much right now, but I'll try to look more into the styles you mentioned in your other replies and more of Balthazar's spriting videos.
The new pose:

This doesn't represent the fixed proportions and the final product, but it at least provides an idea for what the aim of the new sprite is.

Thank you for the good wishes and advice, I appreciate them.


Edit:
V2 isn't going to be as lazy because I'm actually using an angle beside body->audience & head->opponent. It requires a tiny bit of foreshortening.
I kept mentioning this like it'd be some kind of amazing thing to witness but forgot to actually bring it up it in the end.
My 2nd bad.
Last Edit: July 12, 2017, 02:12:17 am by Nert/Captain Unprofessional

leParagon

Re: [Theme Thread] Z2 Sprite thread
#1364  July 12, 2017, 02:04:50 am
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well, you can always use mspaint if you dont have space for other things :))

and I think that youre going in the right direction now, plus it's also really great that you already acknowledged the things you think needed fixibg in the first place
i like pixels

MotorRoach

Re: [Theme Thread] Z2 Sprite thread
#1365  July 12, 2017, 02:50:38 am
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Nert/Captain Unprofessional said, July 12, 2017, 01:56:21 am


I dare say that this is actually a step backwards, rather than an improvement. Yes, the posing of the body makes more sense in here, but now it's consequently far less appealing looking, since it's mostly just a profile view of the character. There's a reason why official sprites tend to have a more diagonal view of the characters, even when they are just merely standing still, and that is done for the sake of appeal and having a better readable sprite all around.

This can be dealt with by creating a more readable silhouette for the character that easier conveys the pose they are supposed to have. Here's a quick demonstration of silhouettes in action:



The Zamasu pose you have done looks very glued together, as barely any of his features stand out, outside of his hair. The Goku sprite, on the other hand, can more easily be read just from his very shape. You can tell his body parts apart from each other, making most of his silhouette readable and recognizable. I might be alone on this, but your previous take on Zamasu had a more readable pose outside of his legs being too close together, and it really just needed a touch up on the shading, so I would try to create a more open pose like what you previously created.

Here are a few more samples of creating a readable and appealing silhouette that might come in handy for you:



Shit

Nert/Captain Unprofessional

Re: [Theme Thread] Z2 Sprite thread
#1366  July 12, 2017, 03:46:19 am
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MotorRoach said, July 12, 2017, 02:50:38 am
Nert/Captain Unprofessional said, July 12, 2017, 01:56:21 am

I might be alone on this, but your previous take on Zamasu had a more readable pose outside of his legs being too close together, and it really just needed a touch up on the shading, so I would try to create a more open pose like what you previously created.

I think the current egotistical pose idea used by both V1 and the concept image for V2 should be scrapped entirely.
Using V1 makes little sense in terms of body language but is somewhat visually interesting while V2 makes sense in terms of posistioning but is far too stiff.
With such a generic pose you can't get the best of both worlds.
I'm thinking of using:

or

KomuruZukitaki

Re: [Theme Thread] Z2 Sprite thread
#1367  July 12, 2017, 08:21:15 pm
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Alpha Proto

Re: [Theme Thread] Z2 Sprite thread
#1368  July 12, 2017, 08:34:57 pm
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KomuruZukitaki said, July 12, 2017, 08:21:15 pm


http://imgur.com/yiF0TMu

Dont know what's up with the img thing

It is cool seeing someone make this character. There are some things you need to work on.

You need some wrinkles in the pants.
The inner legs, crotch,and ab areas have the heaviest shading in Z2 style.
The character lines are not defined enough.

You may want to try frankensteining some parts from the sprites in the game until you get the style down.
I suggest referencing Piccolo since he is one of the bigger characters in the game.

I was going to suggest shrinking, and tracing this, but this drawing looks odd. The anatomy is off. The biceps are too big.
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty
Last Edit: July 13, 2017, 09:11:44 am by Alpha Proto

AlexSin

Re: [Theme Thread] Z2 Sprite thread
#1369  July 12, 2017, 11:00:24 pm
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KomuruZukitaki said, July 12, 2017, 08:21:15 pm


http://imgur.com/yiF0TMu

Dont know what's up with the img thing

You never get the image's address instead of the page's address. That's what's up.

Link of the page: http://imgur.com/yiF0TMu
Link of the image: http://i.imgur.com/yiF0TMu.png (you're lucky this has .png after the first link, it's not always the case)
how to get it: right click on the picture -> copy image address



Code: 
[img]http://i.imgur.com/yiF0TMu.png[/img]

What are those lines above the shadow part (on the pants)? It's also giving a sense of banding that you shouldn't add.
Last Edit: July 12, 2017, 11:05:49 pm by AlexSin

KomuruZukitaki

Re: [Theme Thread] Z2 Sprite thread
#1370  July 14, 2017, 12:14:53 am
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Fire made by Balthazar

Alpha Proto

Re: [Theme Thread] Z2 Sprite thread
#1371  July 14, 2017, 02:03:52 am
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That is a big improvement in a very short amount of time.
This sprite shows me your potential in the Z2 style.
It is not perfect, but it is better than your first post for sure.

Yoshin222

Re: [Theme Thread] Z2 Sprite thread
#1372  July 14, 2017, 03:03:29 am
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The shading is kind of inconsistent, its like it half wants to be from the top and from the fire at the same time. I'd suggest picking one and sticking with it, preferably the fire as thats how sprites usually handle stuff like that, for instance Ryu when firing a Hadouken in SF3

That and his head looks a little crunched, idk if hes hunching or what, but heres a suggestion

Take this as you will

ZX2

Re: [Theme Thread] Z2 Sprite thread
#1373  July 14, 2017, 03:22:06 am
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I agree. can't even see his eyes. what did you use as a reference?

KomuruZukitaki

Re: [Theme Thread] Z2 Sprite thread
#1374  July 14, 2017, 09:47:27 am
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Reference I resized the legs and torso separately
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty




The chain I did for her pants sucks lol

EDIT: So I don't Double Post


I know trunks is quite overdone lol

EDIT2: lil revamp thx to Yoshin222
Last Edit: July 15, 2017, 04:45:51 am by KomuruZukitaki

Nert/Captain Unprofessional

Re: [Theme Thread] Z2 Sprite thread
#1375  July 18, 2017, 09:16:01 pm
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 I finished the 2nd version of Merged Zamasu.

Big changes:
1)I mixed a pose given to me by Yoshin and Freeza's FighterZ pose.
2)Rather than using simple colors somewhat similar to the anime's, I tried to use Balthazar's Goku Black sprite's palette for the black and grey parts of the clothes. I also used the palette from AlexSin's edit of Armentis' Zamasu as a starting point for the skin.

I'm still questioning how the body parts look (especially the face) and the quality of the shading, but the two main changes solve some of the problems that existed in the previous version.

Yoshin222

Re: [Theme Thread] Z2 Sprite thread
#1376  July 18, 2017, 10:58:13 pm
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@KomuruZukitaki
I did more than that to help with your sprite, i even changed the position of the limbs to make the pose more concise and traditional, and those aspects i edited were meant to help give you a better understanding of how shading works, it was unwise to just copy paste them on like that and call it a revamp, as doing that hasn't really taught you anything, believe me i would know.
//orig07.deviantart.net/092e/f/2017/144/8/d/sprite_shading_visual_note_by_yoshin222-dbab78x.png
{PS: Sorry its a link images are being weird with me for some reason ^^'}
It was something i did to practice shading a while back. The arms are shaded in CVS, SF3, Z2 and SFA in that order, perhaps you may find this useful.
His line art could also use some work as its a bit rough. His legs aren't defined well enough so they just sort of mesh together, and his hands are kinda uneven among other things. Keep practising dude you are certainly improving

KomuruZukitaki

Re: [Theme Thread] Z2 Sprite thread
#1377  July 19, 2017, 12:08:21 am
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@Yoshin yeah you're right xD also thx glad to know I'm improving.
EDIT: Also thx for that muscle shading guide.



I am not a fan of the animation like at all it's pretty basic and lacks life honestly loI, I used the head from Barker's Videl and the colors.

Thammy

Re: [Theme Thread] Z2 Sprite thread
#1378  July 19, 2017, 12:41:32 am
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Nert/Captain Unprofessional said, July 18, 2017, 09:16:01 pm
I finished the 2nd version of Merged Zamasu.

Big changes:
1)I mixed a pose given to me by Yoshin and Freeza's FighterZ pose.
2)Rather than using simple colors somewhat similar to the anime's, I tried to use Balthazar's Goku Black sprite's palette for the black and grey parts of the clothes. I also used the palette from AlexSin's edit of Armentis' Zamasu as a starting point for the skin.

I'm still questioning how the body parts look (especially the face) and the quality of the shading, but the two main changes solve some of the problems that existed in the previous version.

Looks much better. It sounds like you recognize the issues, but I'll try to point out what I see anyway:

The shading still feels a little "MS Paint". I don't know how to describe it. I want to say pillow shading, but it's better than that usually is.
The boot looks good, but the legs are a little weird. I think they might be a little short, and I'm kind of confused as to how the legs are arranged. It kind of looks like both legs are shoved into one boot, or maybe that lower body is facing to the right while the upper body is  45 degree angle toward the viewer.

KomuruZukitaki

Re: [Theme Thread] Z2 Sprite thread
#1379  July 19, 2017, 12:54:50 am
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Nert/Captain Unprofessional said, July 18, 2017, 09:16:01 pm
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty


I'd say use this as a reference for the shading considering it's close to what you're aiming for...
I can see him coming out  quite nicely I do have an issue with his anatomy though, I mean I'm not good at anatomy but something about it just feels off like it may be his height for the most part definitely something with the legs though but again still coming out quite nicely srry I can't really be much help p.p

Nert/Captain Unprofessional

Re: [Theme Thread] Z2 Sprite thread
#1380  July 19, 2017, 02:28:55 am
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Thammy said, July 19, 2017, 12:41:32 am
The shading still feels a little "MS Paint". I don't know how to describe it. I want to say pillow shading, but it's better than that usually is.
The boot looks good, but the legs are a little weird. I think they might be a little short, and I'm kind of confused as to how the legs are arranged. It kind of looks like both legs are shoved into one boot, or maybe that lower body is facing to the right while the upper body is  45 degree angle toward the viewer.
I still don't have a strong grasp of Z2 shading. I looked through this thread for tips and even looked through the simple spriting links that Yoshin linked to, but it still confuses me.
After looking at the FighterZ Freeza I traced over another time I noticed that his leg is at an angle. I drew the second/hidden boot straight up, did the same with the hidden pant leg and the pants are too baggy so it looks like the hidden leg is connected to the baggy part of the main one.

The first will be hard to fix, but the second will be a piece of cake, I might try to turn the second foot, but if it doesn't turn out well I'll just make him float both forwards and backwards.

KomuruZukitaki said, July 19, 2017, 12:54:50 am

I'd say use this as a reference for the shading considering it's close to what you're aiming for...
I can see him coming out  quite nicely I do have an issue with his anatomy though, I mean I'm not good at anatomy but something about it just feels off like it may be his height for the most part definitely something with the legs though but again still coming out quite nicely srry I can't really be much help p.p

Don't worry about your credentials, you don't need a particular skill set to critique. You may need them for an in-depth critique, but that's not very relevant.
The angle of the legs and the bagginess of the pants are definitely the problem. The image I used as a base (FighterZ Freeza) has a bent leg and I didn't notice it.
Also, I forgot Barker made a Zamasu, I had seen it before but it completely escaped my mind when trying to improve the palette.



Thank you both for the feedback.
Last Edit: October 27, 2017, 01:10:20 am by AlexSin
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