JeanBureau † said, July 23, 2012, 12:14:29 pmYou said if we were to restrict normal people (normal = not a criminal) to have guns, it would give an advantage to criminals who ignores the law anyway. That is true. So pretty much, what motivates you is the fear of having your safety lowered (you couldn't defend yourself anymore).But then, why this fear ? Why fear criminals with guns when I am without the means to defend myself? I think you already know the answer to that question.JeanBureau † said, July 23, 2012, 12:14:29 pmI mean considering the legislation in France for example, according to your argument above, we, "normal" french citizen are disadvantaged compared to criminals since we can't have guns so easily. Yes. You are.JeanBureau † said, July 23, 2012, 12:14:29 pmBut here is the thing --> We don't have that fear of yours explaining a constant desire to own a gun. Why the fear ?To be clear: It's not fear. It's entitlement. We don't fear being randomly killed by criminals like people might fear in countries like Mexico. We feel entitled. If everyone else is gonna have guns, we should be able to have guns too. The law is not an outright bad law, it is useful. If at some time in the future it is amended, then so be it, but there's always a chance that it can be changed back. It all depends on who is running the government and how they're controlling guns. Luckily, the government of my country, so far, agrees with me, and I like that.I don't necessarily speak for everyone's reasoning for the right to bear arms.GBK667 said, July 23, 2012, 12:19:51 pm^^ because their tv channels. They preach fear and violence.Please tell me this is a joke.
MissBHaven said, July 23, 2012, 12:05:49 pmhere ya go!Hmm, it seems (I think) they're only selling "models of weapons and ammunition"?WAIT EVERYONE SHUT UP THERE IS SOMETHING MORE IMPORTANT THAN ALL OF THISGBK667 said, July 23, 2012, 12:08:16 pmQuotelive-action Jackie Chan Adventures movieoh wait it's just a similar premise I guess
Quote"We feel entitled. If everyone else is gonna have guns, we should be able to have guns too."See? Thats the mistake "someone has weapons..so we need weapons too!Thats a basic thought which reminds me at the stone age. Seriously.And yes that about the tv channels was meant as a joke.
How is that a mistake? Explain why it is a mistake.If you mean self preservation reminds you of the stone age, then you might not be going far back enough. In fact, that is one of the jobs of a state, allowing people to preserve themselves and their possessions (if you consider property a natural right instead of a state-induced one).What if the police force decides it's open season on citizens? They'll think twice when those citizens have guns. It's not only for petty criminals, it's for invasions, revolts, things like the shooting in this thread. You can't boil this down to the stone age and call it day. It's much more than that.
The mistake is, that someone has weapons already.The 2nd mistake is that there are people who want to have weapons because someone else hasSee, if nobody would have weapons in the first place..why should someone want them...except he is a psycho of course.Yes i know what you mean but i rather chosed the stone age example as talking about the battles of the different species when it comes to kill others for food or space.
Rajaa said, July 23, 2012, 12:27:10 pmWhat if the police force decides it's open season on citizens?If that is even a remotely relevant fear, then you have bigger problems than gun control I'd say.
GBK667 said, July 23, 2012, 12:32:16 pmSee, if nobody would have weapons in the first place..why should someone want them...except he is a psycho of course.If it only it was as simple as making nobody have weapons. You're oversimplifying this; and that might be an understatement.GBK667 said, July 23, 2012, 12:32:16 pmYes i know what you mean but i rather chosed the stone age example as talking about the battles of the different species when it comes to kill others for food or space.That's not the stone age, that's, unfortunately, the way of survival. =pValodim said, July 23, 2012, 12:34:37 pmRajaa said, July 23, 2012, 12:27:10 pmWhat if the police force decides it's open season on citizens?If that is even a remotely relevant fear, then you have bigger problems than gun control I'd say.True. But it doesn't hurt to be prepared for something that isn't likely to happen. =p
Valodim said, July 23, 2012, 12:34:37 pmRajaa said, July 23, 2012, 12:27:10 pmWhat if the police force decides it's open season on citizens?If that is even a remotely relevant fear, then you have bigger problems than gun control I'd say.well, did you check the news today? http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/fatal-police-involved-shooting-leads-near-riot-anaheim-article-1.1119702yes, it was open-season
Rajaa said, July 23, 2012, 12:41:44 pmTrue. But it doesn't hurt to be prepared for something that isn't likely to happen. =pI hope you recognize this as the start of the vicious circle that it is...
Valodim said, July 23, 2012, 11:54:32 amthe laws in hypothetical-land are obviously the same as in Germany (and probably other european countries).Bleh. 15 pages of insightless NO U discussion. I'm outta hereI believe I tried to make and fact based posts, but they seem to have gone completely ignored.I have even mentioned two shootings that happened here in Brazil, where guns are soft banned and regulated by laws similar to the ones you proposed on your post.Because of our borders and population size, those guys just managed to get illegal guns and commit their crimes. One got two revolvers and hundreds of ammo to shoot a children's school, the other an uzi with 50 9mm rounds to shoot people during the screening of Fight Club in 1999, which clearly shows that not having the right to bear arms will not stop tragedies like the one in Aurora...I don't think that none of you who live in Europe need the right to bear arms. You have a more controlled situation there, with borders very well defined, and neighbors you can usually trust. I am glad you have that situation there. Good for you all.But here, and in the US, situation is quite different. Here any bum can get an illegal gun, and there's nothing I can do about that.I would feel safer here if I had the right to bear arms and carry a concealed gun, because things are ugly around these parts.
Man that video is terrible... what the fuck with these cops. In France cops are almost afraid to pull out their guns because it would be easy to have the legislation against them even if they point / shoot a suspect / criminal.These cops on the video seem to believe they are cowboys maybe... ------------MissChastityYou bring a valuable point. The bottom line is that the environment is more harmful in ths US which explains a bigger need in people to have a gun. But then, I have another question, Why is the environment more harmful ?What is the source of the problem ?Why is it more dangerous to live in US than in EU in the first place ? What causes this higher danger sort of speaking ?
See? @ BeatriceThats where harder laws about come into play, of course your crime and gangs culture has to be erased as well though. Banning guns might only solve half of the problem.The Mafia and syndicates in Brazil and the USA need to extinct. After all, this tragic case in the theatre wasnt done by a mafiosi however but by some 24 year old stupid idiot, ..who could get his weapons because lax laws. @jean. check out youtube. There are hundreds of videos showing american cops behaving like they are cowboys and the absolute law. Those guys there have a different understanding of their job as here in europe.
Valodim said, July 23, 2012, 12:48:24 pmRajaa said, July 23, 2012, 12:41:44 pmTrue. But it doesn't hurt to be prepared for something that isn't likely to happen. =pI hope you recognize this as the start of the vicious circle that it is...Well, like you said, if that happens, then there are bigger problems at hand. Something's gotta give.
JeanBureau † said, July 23, 2012, 12:59:18 pmWhy is it more dangerous to live in US than in EU in the first place ?Ooh is this the "throw out unsubstantiated bullshit" game? Lemme try.Why do Europeans eat their own poop? It's so disgusting!GBK667 said, July 23, 2012, 12:59:28 pm@jean. check out youtube. There are hundreds of videos showing american cops behaving like they are cowboys and the absolute law. Those guys there have a different understanding of their job as here in europe.And I'm sure there are zero videos of European cops behaving the same way. I definitely haven't heard anything about police brutality during austerity measure riots.it's a shame we USEAians are so stupid and dumb
Why do you call yourself stupid and dumb? (not that i would have a problem with that..in your case)Did someone call you or americans in general stupid or dumb or why such a reaction?
Jmorphman said, July 23, 2012, 01:17:56 pmOoh is this the "throw out unsubstantiated bullshit" game? Lemme try.I'm pretty sure you perfectly understood his point, even if it wasn't phrased to your liking :- USA : we need guns because of background history and because it's dangerous, so we need them to defend ourselves.- EU : we don't have guns and it works perfectly. Of course some people get killed by guns, that can't be avoided, but there are far less gun related crimes than in the US.-> Question : Are the US less safe than EU ? If not, why this need to defend yourself more than in EU (where it works better in terms of crimes) if the country (not the country as a whole, more like State by State, you get the point) isn't more dangerous to live in ?
GBK667 said, July 23, 2012, 01:22:01 pmWhy do you call yourself stupid and dumb? (not that i would have a problem with that..in your case)Did someone call you or americans in general stupid or dumb or why such a reaction?Non-American: ALL AMERICANS ARE STUPID!American: I take offense to that!Non-American: I only said all Americans are stupid, not you. Why are you offended?American: Who's stupid now?Yeah. I am done here. This all boils down to certain people not liking America. I am sure of it.
I dont know who is stupid but nobody called you /americans in general that here.Why are you and Jmorphman making things up and change words?Quote"Yeah. I am done here. This all boils down to certain people not liking America. I am sure of it."That however, is bullshit.
