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Is it possible to intercept invincible Screen Fillers? (Read 1127 times)

Started by Redben, December 25, 2019, 08:36:58 pm
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Is it possible to intercept invincible Screen Fillers?
#1  December 25, 2019, 08:36:58 pm
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Is it even possible for a move to stop an invincible screen filler in MUGEN? Or there is no need to bother?
Re: Is it possible to intercept invincible Screen Fillers?
#2  December 25, 2019, 11:20:49 pm
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 Probably would be easier to give more specific examples since that is an extremely broad question. If you mean simply stopping full screen hits from putting your character in hitstun/blockstun, use super armor (which itself also varies in method) that absorbs the full screen hits. If you mean outright negating them, it depends on the full screen attack in question; if the full screen attack is a helper or just P2 extending their body (think Omega Red for the latter), use a reversaldef that sends them into custom state where it will activate destroyself if the target is a helper or a selfstate if the target is P2; if the full screen attack uses a projectile sctrl, I think you're out of luck there then.
Re: Is it possible to intercept invincible Screen Fillers?
#3  December 26, 2019, 02:04:26 am
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Probably would be easier to give more specific examples since that is an extremely broad question. If you mean simply stopping full screen hits from putting your character in hitstun/blockstun, use super armor (which itself also varies in method) that absorbs the full screen hits. If you mean outright negating them, it depends on the full screen attack in question; if the full screen attack is a helper or just P2 extending their body (think Omega Red for the latter), use a reversaldef that sends them into custom state where it will activate destroyself if the target is a helper or a selfstate if the target is P2; if the full screen attack uses a projectile sctrl, I think you're out of luck there then.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQ9ztaS0fMc&feature=youtu.be

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Skv2L0ZjiUE&feature=youtu.be

These types of screen fillers. You'll notice that Igniz in 0:18 at the first video and, starting from around 1:22 in the second one, can actually intercept and negate them. And that is probably the only attack in the whole KOF series that can do it. I wonder if it's possible to make it able to do that in MUGEN as well. Too many Ignizs have that move, but none of these moves can actually do it as in KOF 2002 UM.
Re: Is it possible to intercept invincible Screen Fillers?
#4  December 26, 2019, 02:24:50 am
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 Negating the actual full screen blast shouldn't be too hard if it is a helper with the reversaldef method I mentioned previously, although you won't be able to negate any blasts if they're projectile sctrl based (unless hitting P2 also stops it). Anyway, afaik, MUGEN handles invulnerability a lot more differently than most FGs in general (it probably also helps that commercial FGs are self-contained environments, so, they can establish compatibility far more easily) and there are very, very little ways to get around full-on invuln in MUGEN asides from the classic reversaldef way (and that only affects the thing doing the hitting, so, if a helper is doing the hitting, P2 won't be affected) or the far more complex reversaldef+proj+helper exploit that was discovered here.
Re: Is it possible to intercept invincible Screen Fillers?
#5  December 26, 2019, 06:04:03 pm
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Negating the actual full screen blast shouldn't be too hard if it is a helper with the reversaldef method I mentioned previously, although you won't be able to negate any blasts if they're projectile sctrl based (unless hitting P2 also stops it). Anyway, afaik, MUGEN handles invulnerability a lot more differently than most FGs in general (it probably also helps that commercial FGs are self-contained environments, so, they can establish compatibility far more easily) and there are very, very little ways to get around full-on invuln in MUGEN asides from the classic reversaldef way (and that only affects the thing doing the hitting, so, if a helper is doing the hitting, P2 won't be affected) or the far more complex reversaldef+proj+helper exploit that was discovered here.

That means the Zeros definetely have a helper with their screen fillers. That's too bad because negating or changing that would reduce their invincibility while I what I was thinking to do was to increase the priority of Igniz' attack instead. But now it's clearer that it's impossible to do it and change the outcome without changing the screen filler itself. Thanks a lot for the insight, and the link, you've been very helpful. I have another question if you don't mind, is there any tutorial or simple guide concerning ProjPriority and how it functions?
Re: Is it possible to intercept invincible Screen Fillers?
#6  December 27, 2019, 10:33:13 pm
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The docs go over it but basically. If you have 2 projectiles. One is priority 6 the other is priority 2. The priority 6 projectile will destroy the 1st and 2nd priority 2 projectiles it makes contact with. It will be destroyed and destroy the next priority 2 projectile it hits.

Priority 6 hits 2 = now priority 4
Priority 4 hits 2 = now priority 2
Priority 2 hits 2 = both cancel.

If it was
Priority 2 hits 1 = now priority 1

Its actually a pretty neat system that would be annoying to do with helpers. Shame projectiles have so few other useful features.


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They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance.
Re: Is it possible to intercept invincible Screen Fillers?
#7  December 28, 2019, 11:00:34 am
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The docs go over it but basically. If you have 2 projectiles. One is priority 6 the other is priority 2. The priority 6 projectile will destroy the 1st and 2nd priority 2 projectiles it makes contact with. It will be destroyed and destroy the next priority 2 projectile it hits.

Priority 6 hits 2 = now priority 4
Priority 4 hits 2 = now priority 2
Priority 2 hits 2 = both cancel.

If it was
Priority 2 hits 1 = now priority 1

Its actually a pretty neat system that would be annoying to do with helpers. Shame projectiles have so few other useful features.

What about "ProjPriority = 999999" or anything similar?
Re: Is it possible to intercept invincible Screen Fillers?
#8  December 28, 2019, 11:12:48 am
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It has a max setting iirc but i don't know what it is. Regardless if you set it to that value itll behqve the same. The projpriority of any projectile that hits it will reduce its value by that priority.

Priority 9999999 vs priority 9000000 will give you a priority 999999 projectile. Hit that with priority 999998 and you have a priority 1 projectile.


In M.U.G.E.N there is no magic button

They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance.
Re: Is it possible to intercept invincible Screen Fillers?
#9  December 28, 2019, 11:46:34 am
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It has a max setting iirc but i don't know what it is. Regardless if you set it to that value itll behqve the same. The projpriority of any projectile that hits it will reduce its value by that priority.

Priority 9999999 vs priority 9000000 will give you a priority 999999 projectile. Hit that with priority 999998 and you have a priority 1 projectile.

Many thanks.