The Mugen Fighters Guild

M.U.G.E.N Central => Your Releases, older Mugen => Topic started by: Cybaster on August 29, 2009, 04:26:30 pm

Title: THE ULTIMATE STAGE TUTORIAL
Post by: Cybaster on August 29, 2009, 04:26:30 pm
... OF MAKING STAGES 8)

Okay guys, I know I shouldn't be announcing a tutorial here, but with the time I've spent on it, I think I've achieved writing the most complete tutorial on stage making to date. And since people look out this section much more than the tips & tutos one, I figured it'd be interesting for everybody to know about this tutorial.

The tutorial is kinda interactive, and will allow you to create (from PNG sprites included in a link), this stage :
(http://www.mugenguild.com/~cybaster/stage_tutorial/tuto5-anim/image12.png)


It also has many advices on the mistakes to avoid, how to apply a palette to a sprite (not for stages only), etc.
Give me feedback, whether you're a beginner or a pro.

Here's the link : http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=104470.0
Title: Re: THE ULTIMATE STAGE ...
Post by: ExShadow on August 29, 2009, 04:40:56 pm
WHERE CAN I FIND THIS AWESOME STAGE!?!?!!?!?

Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

Thanks for the tutorial.
Title: Re: THE ULTIMATE STAGE ...
Post by: Lasombra Demon on August 29, 2009, 04:48:20 pm
First of all, congrats. It's great to see some people still care about teaching MUGEN.

Now, on feedback.
On applying a palette to a file... you've done incredibly detailed, yet Adobe Photoshop ain't the only tool used, nor is it free. Why not just telling to reduce to 256 colours and teach Paletero?

The rest is just perfect, and I do think with just a bit more writing you could easily turn this into a 'How to make an .ACT, .AIR and .SFF file?', which would also apply to characters.
Title: Re: THE ULTIMATE STAGE ...
Post by: Cybaster on August 29, 2009, 04:57:36 pm
Thanks to the mod/admin who stickied my tutorial. :)

@ Exshadow : not sure you're the kind who needs this tutorial the most. :P

@ Lasombra Demon : thanks for the feedback. I know I should have used The Gimp, because it's free and thus accessible to everybody. However, I wrote the tutorial with the tool I'm the most used to. ;P
Concerning paletero, I've never used it, so I cannot tell ...

Yeah, I guess I could be writing a bit more to expand the tutorial to other aspects of character making. I'll think about it, but I've spent the last few days finishing a 65 pages report for my school, as well as writing this tutorial, so I think writing wall of texts is not my priority for now. ;P
Title: Re: THE ULTIMATE STAGE ...
Post by: ExShadow on August 29, 2009, 05:15:51 pm
I have been owned. 
Title: Re: THE ULTIMATE STAGE ...
Post by: Guilty on August 29, 2009, 05:18:17 pm
AWESOME, Cybaster!

Thanks for the tutorial!
Title: Re: THE ULTIMATE STAGE ...
Post by: Master Yoda on August 29, 2009, 05:25:02 pm
great tutorial cybaster!  ;D
Title: Re: THE ULTIMATE STAGE ...
Post by: The Pretty Boy on August 29, 2009, 05:34:45 pm
Damn thats the shit  ;D
Title: Re: THE ULTIMATE STAGE ...
Post by: Ah! Ya! Cos... on August 29, 2009, 06:07:28 pm
OMG! great tuto cybaster!
you gave me the way and desire to make a stage!
thank you Cybaster and very useful/precious tuto for a beginner like me (and for others) ;)
Title: Re: THE ULTIMATE STAGE ...
Post by: The Fisher King on August 29, 2009, 07:59:50 pm
YES!! Thanks Cybaster for this tutorial  :D
Title: Re: THE ULTIMATE STAGE ...
Post by: mh777 on August 29, 2009, 08:02:51 pm
A very minor nitpick, Cy:  the "ASxxxDyyy" anim transparency parameter only works in WinMUGEN (and Linux MUGEN, if I remember correctly.).  Not that most stage makers nowadays are working in DOS, but it's just something to note.

Anyways, the tutorial is definitely required reading when it comes to stage making for vets and noobs alike.  I even picked up a couple things from it.  Good job, Cy!   :sugoi:
Title: Re: THE ULTIMATE STAGE ...
Post by: momo! on August 29, 2009, 08:32:32 pm
im working on stages right now, to go with my rather bad character, so i do appreciate this, most of them come out really bad


after trying this ill get back to you with feedback.
Title: Re: THE ULTIMATE STAGE ...
Post by: Djoulz on August 29, 2009, 09:12:29 pm
excellent, as if it would have been any different coming from you ;)

gret job!
Title: Re: THE ULTIMATE STAGE ...
Post by: Cybaster on August 29, 2009, 09:19:04 pm
mh777 said, August 29, 2009, 08:02:51 pm
A very minor nitpick, Cy:  the "ASxxxDyyy" anim transparency parameter only works in WinMUGEN (and Linux MUGEN, if I remember correctly.).  Not that most stage makers nowadays are working in DOS, but it's just something to note.
Yeah, I thought about writing that, but I figured out that anybody creating stage nowadays would be using Winmugen (or Linux Mugen) anyway.

Quote
Anyways, the tutorial is definitely required reading when it comes to stage making for vets and noobs alike.  I even picked up a couple things from it.  Good job, Cy!   :sugoi:
W00t, I learned something to the mighty mh777 !!! :sugoi:

And thanks guys for the kind words ! ^_^
Title: Re: THE ULTIMATE STAGE ...
Post by: Mackx on August 30, 2009, 07:14:10 am
This is very good Cybaster, you did an amazing job here. Wish something like this was around when i first got into mugen, thanks for sharing! Can't imagine how much work went into this  :sugoi:
Title: Re: THE ULTIMATE STAGE ...
Post by: Rajaa on August 30, 2009, 07:26:50 am
Maybe I'll kick the chickens out now.
Title: Re: THE ULTIMATE STAGE ...
Post by: MOTVN on August 30, 2009, 05:05:21 pm
5 out of 5 stars
Title: Re: THE ULTIMATE STAGE ...
Post by: Voltron-o on August 30, 2009, 05:20:41 pm
Propz man, very accurate a detailed, newbies, get ready to take the risk, no excuses with this shit (me too  :sugoi:)
Title: Re: THE ULTIMATE STAGE ...
Post by: Baragon on August 30, 2009, 05:32:06 pm
Now I have an excuse to use the pirated totally legal version of Photoshop I have.
Title: Re: THE ULTIMATE STAGE ...
Post by: Tamez on August 31, 2009, 12:46:35 am
Quote
- Values under "Common" should NOT be modified. If you do so, it may result in infinites because the characters' cornerpush will be screwed.

I think "leftbound and rightbound should NOT be lowered" would be better. 
If you want to make a really long stage, you need to increase these values or you can run into character problems as well. 

When I had a boundleft -600/boundright 600, Ryu by P.o.t.S. would get his Shinkuu HadouKen stuck on the right side wall because the stage wasn't wide enough.  Jill by BEK/XCB would get her Cerberus stuck there also, so it was not an isolated incident. 


---
Regarding tile and tilespacing: 

Quote
- tile is a boolean. It's either 0, either 1.

No, it's not. 

Tile can be whatever value you need it to be so long as it is a whole number. 
When tile is set to anything over 1, it will cease to be infinite.  Tile = 2,0 will show the stage item in the original location, and will place one more time, horizontally in ths case.  So tile = 2,0 is showing the item two times.  You can use tile this way to place something on the screen a limited number of times. 

I think it would be good to point out that for tiled animations it is absolutely necessary to have tilespacing. 
Otherwise they'll get that smeared effect.  The tilespacing should be at least the width of the widest image in the animation. 

Also, to avoid the problem of stuff disappearing when it is only partially offscreen when on the right side, it would be good to specifically recommend that tiled animation sprites be placed at 0 for the X value in the .sff. 


---
For parallax, here is another excellent post by Orbinaut (previously Shift b is B): 
http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=85746.msg737002#msg737002


---
No explanation of how "window = " works? 


---
For background controllers, there is another error in the docs you should include: 

Quote
[BGCtrl]
type = Enabled

That's how it is in the docs, but having the "d" on the end will make mugen crash.  It needs to be: 

Quote
[BGCtrl]
type = Enable


If you want to have more in depth background controller information, you can link to my tutorial videos that I made for the Phantom G forum. 
http://phantomgs.forumotion.net/help-f34/tamez-s-tips-tricks-and-tutorials-t118.htm


I'll let you know if there's more.   :laugh:
Title: Re: THE ULTIMATE STAGE ...
Post by: Randomish on August 31, 2009, 01:01:35 am
Its too  awesome :o
Title: Re: THE ULTIMATE STAGE ...
Post by: Tamez on August 31, 2009, 01:34:32 am
Quote
I'll let you know if there's more.   :laugh:

Found more. 


You should probably explain how in hi-res stages the bounds need to be half of their true value. 

And you don't have anything about zoffsetlink in there (including using "type = dummy" stage items as a way to accomplish zoffset linking). 
Title: Re: THE ULTIMATE STAGE ...
Post by: Mr. I on August 31, 2009, 02:18:26 am
Spoiler: Tamez already mentioned it (click to see content)

Didn't read that lol

Title: Re: THE ULTIMATE STAGE ...
Post by: johnny916 on August 31, 2009, 04:29:03 am
awesome tutorial, one question, is there a code you can use to make a platform that you can jump and land on, i thought i seen it somewhere but i can't remember
Title: Re: THE ULTIMATE STAGE ...
Post by: Cybaster on August 31, 2009, 11:19:50 am
@ Tamez : I was waiting for your feedback, I knew you wouldn't miss anything and would eventually spot mistakes. ;P

Quote
I think "leftbound and rightbound should NOT be lowered" would be better.
If you want to make a really long stage, you need to increase these values or you can run into character problems as well.

When I had a boundleft -600/boundright 600, Ryu by P.o.t.S. would get his Shinkuu HadouKen stuck on the right side wall because the stage wasn't wide enough.  Jill by BEK/XCB would get her Cerberus stuck there also, so it was not an isolated incident.
Will add more info, yeah.

Quote
No, it's not.

Tile can be whatever value you need it to be so long as it is a whole number.
When tile is set to anything over 1, it will cease to be infinite.  Tile = 2,0 will show the stage item in the original location, and will place one more time, horizontally in ths case.  So tile = 2,0 is showing the item two times.  You can use tile this way to place something on the screen a limited number of times.
DOH !!! I SUX ! --;
I will correct this for sure. I learned something new. :sugoi:

Quote
For parallax, here is another excellent post by Orbinaut (previously Shift b is B):
http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=85746.msg737002#msg737002
Will add. :)

Quote
No explanation of how "window = " works?
I decided to skip some parts on purpose. Window is barely ever used, and the few times I've seen it, it was a disaster. I just avoid this parameter.
There are other things I didn't mention such as how to create 3D stages using high delta values, using p1startz/p2startz to create easy interaction between stages and chars, neither did I add anything about ZOffsetLink. I think these parameters are really advanced, and even though the tutorial is aimed to everybody, if one wants to go as far as using ZOffsetLink or Window, he should be intelligent enough to look at the docs and figure things out on his own. :P

Quote
That's how it is in the docs, but having the "d" on the end will make mugen crash.
Will add. I'll also add the link to your BGCtrl tutorials, thanks. :)

@ Orbinaut : I'll make a mix of your post and Tamez's one for the explanation on tile + tilespacing.

@ johnnyb916 : it's not possible by coding a stage alone. To do that, you need to code it in the characters specifically.

Thanks everybody for your comments. ;D

EDIT : fixed everything.
Title: Re: THE ULTIMATE STAGE ...
Post by: Cenobite 53 on September 07, 2009, 02:30:31 am
Really nice Tutorial  :)

Found a kinda funny typo in it (chapter 5.2)
Quote
Once again, I won't be holding your hand, as you should have enough experience to ass sprites in the SFF and code the clouds on your own.
;D
Title: Re: THE ULTIMATE STAGE ...
Post by: [Gun0] on September 07, 2009, 04:14:11 am
dl the stage and read the tutorial cause i need this to look back on. thanx
Title: Re: THE ULTIMATE STAGE ...
Post by: MirageAtoli on September 07, 2009, 04:42:17 am
What would really be nice is a visual description of the box-model for the stage.

I am a little to confused as to where exactly is 0,0 ? Is it middle-bottom?
Title: Re: THE ULTIMATE STAGE ...
Post by: Cybaster on September 07, 2009, 08:30:14 am
You mean something like :

0,0 ---------------------------- 320,0
 |                                              |
 |                                              |
 |                                              |
 |                                              |
 |                                              |
 |                                              |
240,0 ------------------------- 320,240

???

That may indeed be a good idea.
Title: Re: THE ULTIMATE STAGE ...
Post by: Blacksaiyen on September 07, 2009, 09:28:43 am
THANK YOU SO MUCH, CYB (+ all the people who've given useful feedback in order it's improved, I mean it) !!!!!!!

You've no idea how it's appreciated to be provided with this ; it both helps to understand mugen mechanics and it's interactive at the same time (relying on a CONCRETE example, nothing general that you still don't understand), just like when you were used to learn the alphabet with whatever stupid animal when you were 6 (+/-), it's entertaining (I miss these times so much xD).
Really really appreciated, it has been said, we've no longer any excuse now for giving a try  ;P  ;P
Title: Re: THE ULTIMATE STAGE ...
Post by: MirageAtoli on September 07, 2009, 05:53:51 pm
Inglourious CyBasterd said, September 07, 2009, 08:30:14 am
That may indeed be a good idea.

Yeah.

But it would cover the entire stage, even what is off the screen, and the bounds as if it were padding, and the zoffset etc.
Title: Re: THE ULTIMATE STAGE ...
Post by: PotS on September 07, 2009, 07:29:02 pm
Inglourious CyBasterd said, September 07, 2009, 08:30:14 am
You mean something like :
0,0 is in the middle top! Your tutorial license shall be revoked! >:(
Title: Re: THE ULTIMATE STAGE ...
Post by: Cybaster on September 07, 2009, 07:31:00 pm
I didn't say this image/representation applied to stages in Mugen. ::) ;D
Title: Re: THE ULTIMATE STAGE ...
Post by: PotS on September 07, 2009, 07:34:05 pm
:D

I guess this could be stickied for a while.
Title: Re: THE ULTIMATE STAGE TUTORIAL
Post by: Cybaster on September 07, 2009, 08:49:30 pm
Doh, this gets stickied here and in the tuto section, I must be a VIP ! 8)
Title: Re: THE ULTIMATE STAGE TUTORIAL
Post by: c001357 on September 08, 2009, 01:31:20 pm
Yes you are/
Title: Re: THE ULTIMATE STAGE TUTORIAL
Post by: Cybaster on September 08, 2009, 01:35:42 pm
Of course I am !
Title: Re: THE ULTIMATE STAGE TUTORIAL
Post by: c001357 on September 08, 2009, 02:37:08 pm
waiting for the ultimate lifebar and screenpack tutorial ;D
Title: Re: THE ULTIMATE STAGE ...
Post by: MOTVN on September 08, 2009, 02:42:26 pm
MirageAtoli said, September 07, 2009, 05:53:51 pm
Inglourious CyBasterd said, September 07, 2009, 08:30:14 am
That may indeed be a good idea.

Yeah.

But it would cover the entire stage, even what is off the screen, and the bounds as if it were padding, and the zoffset etc.

something like this?
(http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/8795/stagetemplate.png)
Title: Re: THE ULTIMATE STAGE ...
Post by: MirageAtoli on September 09, 2009, 12:06:07 am
MOTVN said, September 08, 2009, 02:42:26 pm
something like this?
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

Not entirely what I had in mind, but yeah, that works.
Title: Re: THE ULTIMATE STAGE TUTORIAL
Post by: kimdom on September 13, 2009, 07:26:56 am
please if anyone can help. How do i code a character in terms of having him or her jump or climb on top of things, and walking on it?
Title: Re: THE ULTIMATE STAGE TUTORIAL
Post by: Orochi Gill on September 13, 2009, 06:45:25 pm
That's stage interactivity and that takes a whole new set of code and other much more complex things and character patching.
Title: Re: THE ULTIMATE STAGE TUTORIAL
Post by: kimdom on September 13, 2009, 10:43:19 pm
is there a web site in which i could follow a few tutorials in how to do so?
Title: Re: THE ULTIMATE STAGE TUTORIAL
Post by: Cybaster on September 13, 2009, 11:00:51 pm
You must first learn how to create a character. When you grasp concepts such has helpers, then you can start thinking about stage interactivity.
Title: Re: THE ULTIMATE STAGE TUTORIAL
Post by: MirageAtoli on September 14, 2009, 12:10:55 am
kimdom said, September 13, 2009, 10:43:19 pm
is there a web site in which i could follow a few tutorials in how to do so?

In answer to your question, the tips and tutorials section is the first place to look.
Second would be to use the search button; chances are you will come up with users asking similar questions.
Title: Re: THE ULTIMATE STAGE TUTORIAL
Post by: Serxioby on January 30, 2010, 05:01:14 pm
naice TUTORIAL
Title: Re: THE ULTIMATE STAGE TUTORIAL
Post by: Survivor_2k on September 04, 2010, 02:42:46 am
Hello Cybaster,
I'm having trouble running my old stages on mugen 1.0
You know what needs to be modified to work perfectly?

see later boy!
Title: Re: THE ULTIMATE STAGE TUTORIAL
Post by: MaxBeta on January 21, 2011, 12:34:20 am
Quick noob question concerning the awesome "BlackJack" trick.

Can it somehow be done to overlapping animated objects?

Let say you have some dude watching the fight and every so often his head tilts to look at the gamer. How can I make him blackjack as to not obstruct the match so much?
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

I haven't come across any mugen stages that do this yet so I guess...no, it can't?

Anyways, it would be a nice future implementation to the engine.
Title: Re: THE ULTIMATE STAGE TUTORIAL
Post by: Cybaster on January 21, 2011, 12:51:01 am
It can be done with no problem I guess.
It's just about using the same trick (no transparency+layerno=0  &&  trans=add1+layerno=1) but for an animation.

I can't remember ATm if anims are affected by the trans parameter, so if this doesn't work, you'll have to use two anims :
- 1 as layerno=0, animation defined normally.
- 1 as layerno=1, animation (same one) defined with ,,ASxxxDyyy at the end of each line (cf. tutorial) for the transparency.
Title: Re: THE ULTIMATE STAGE TUTORIAL
Post by: MaxBeta on January 21, 2011, 01:40:58 am
Thanks for the prompt reply as always, Cybaster.

This code gave me exactly what I needed.
[mcode][BG Schaefer L0]
type = anim
start = 10,0
actionno = 0
layerno = 0

[Begin Action 0]
1,0, 0,0, 350
1,1, 0,0, 6
1,2, 0,0, 6
1,3, 0,0, 100
1,2, 0,0, 6
1,1, 0,0, 6

[BG Schaefer L1]
type = anim
start = 10,0
actionno = 1
layerno = 1

[Begin Action 1]
1,0, 0,0, 350, ,as128d128
1,1, 0,0, 6,   ,as128d128
1,2, 0,0, 6,   ,as128d128
1,3, 0,0, 100, ,as128d128
1,2, 0,0, 6,   ,as128d128
1,1, 0,0, 6,   ,as128d128[/mcode]

Thanks!
Title: Re: THE ULTIMATE STAGE TUTORIAL
Post by: RER on May 15, 2011, 07:15:49 pm
thanks  bro!!!  ;D
Title: Re: THE ULTIMATE STAGE TUTORIAL
Post by: HatsuneMix on October 12, 2011, 04:20:13 am
Awesome exactly what i need  :D
Title: Re: THE ULTIMATE STAGE TUTORIAL
Post by: hypercookie on February 18, 2012, 12:31:42 am
if someone could please reply to me and tell me how to earn gold stars under your name it would be just lovely!
Title: Re: THE ULTIMATE STAGE TUTORIAL
Post by: Laharl on February 18, 2012, 12:53:48 am
2012 the year of the necroposters