The Mugen Fighters Guild

Art & Entertainment => Graphics => Topic started by: Jesuszilla on August 23, 2010, 03:03:49 am

Title: The Palette FAQ
Post by: Jesuszilla on August 23, 2010, 03:03:49 am
People seem to be forgetting these basic things these days.

Have no fear, for I am here to save you from the sin of ignorance (which is simply, "not knowing," so don't think I am choosing this word to be impolite).


What the fuck is a palette?
In layman's terms, a palette (.PAL or .ACT; M.U.G.E.N uses .ACT) is that little thing that makes Ryu white and Ken red, and it can be changed to make Ryu into Evil Ryu or Ken into Ryu, depending on how the colors are replaced. Every image of a character uses this in order to make changing colors simple and easy.

Can effects use it?
Of course! As long as they are indexed with the same palette file! You can even make them grayscale and use PalFX to color them in order to make a Skittles M&M McFlurry vomit of colors if you want!

What the fuck is color separation?
Color separation is when a creator chooses to "color" parts of a sprite differently so that each part is "separately" indexed. Hence the term, "color separation."

Cool! So is it possible to make different costumes using this?
Yes and no. This is why people color separate their characters.  It cannot add huge details that require adding things that stick beyond, such as adding a huge donkey ears to Ken or take away Mai's boobs in exchange for a giant flopping penis. It can, however, add a mask to Fei-Long, take off Yuri's panties, or give Ryo a beard! It depends on how you want to color separate your sprites. The more color separation, the more options you have with them.

Here is an example of what color separation can allow:
(http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/3773/namorexample.png)

Alright, how do I get started?
There are several programs for creating palettes. The top 3 here (IMO) are:

So uh... how do I make something pretty?
Honestly, it depends on which sprites you're working with, but here are the general rules:

IMPORTANT INFORMATION THAT YOU NEED TO KNOW BEFORE MAKING YOUR SHITTY KULA DIAMOND/SHIN LVL. 2 AKUMA PALETTE:

Also:

This is a Pallet:
(http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o19/Yesujira/pallet.jpg)


This is a Palette:
(http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o19/Yesujira/palette.png)

This is Pallette:
(http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/2263/pallettex8oq4.jpg)

They are all pronounced the same. Feel free to join me in a revolution to do otherwise, because English is a constantly "evolving" language that we can change!



Thank you, and enjoy making characters pretty (or ugly, if you're sadistic)!
Title: Re: The Palette FAQ
Post by: Van's on August 23, 2010, 02:58:43 pm
THANK YOU
Hopefully people will actually READ this topic too.

Please make a section about proper shading on the colors and choosing colors that fit together so we don't get more LOOK AT MY FUCKING ICHIGO type abominations.
Title: Re: The Palette FAQ
Post by: Cap on August 23, 2010, 04:07:17 pm
I colossally lol'd.
Title: Re: The Palette FAQ
Post by: Average Mugen Guild Poster on August 23, 2010, 04:09:45 pm
This is a great guide for palettes, I commend you for that. But, I don't see the same people who don't read the docs and release horribly paletted crap is going to read this. :-\
Title: Re: The Palette FAQ
Post by: Rajaa on August 23, 2010, 04:15:10 pm
I found this amusing. Especially the "this is a pallet, this is a palette, this is pallette," part.

I used to make that mistake, but Anjel set me straight!
Title: Re: The Palette FAQ
Post by: Hadoabuser on August 23, 2010, 11:58:49 pm
Sadly I expect the one random new person to read this and ask how does this help with making one.  --;
Title: Re: The Palette FAQ
Post by: kakkoii superhero on August 24, 2010, 01:29:47 am
after reading this tuto, I hope somebody will color seperate terry's pants having the rest of the leg in skin tone leaving the jeans only as a thong, as suggested by the sample.

BTW, color slot in PNG is in a reverse order to PCX, and photoshop's native palette is .aco to open or save palette in .act user has to choose it in drop down menu, otherwise it will be saved as .aco
Title: Re: The Palette FAQ
Post by: SnowShingo on August 24, 2010, 07:42:43 pm
Kyojuu Tokusou Navetsea said, August 24, 2010, 01:29:47 am
photoshop's native palette is .aco to open or save palette in .act user has to choose it in drop down menu, otherwise it will be saved as .aco

no. photoshop's defaults for color tables is .act and .pal. the .aco extension is for swatches, which aren't necessary for what's being described in this thread.
Title: Re: The Palette FAQ
Post by: kakkoii superhero on August 25, 2010, 12:12:53 am
yeah, that's correct but still it is relevant if you want to open the palette as active palette to work on your sprite
Title: Re: The Palette FAQ
Post by: Jesuszilla on August 25, 2010, 12:50:59 am
no?
Title: Re: The Palette FAQ
Post by: kakkoii superhero on August 25, 2010, 11:23:11 am
wouldn't you open the palette file as your color swatch, when working on a sprite, or you prefer color picking/ sampling on finished part? I prefer to open it as swatch, btw as opened swatch, we can not add new color to .act, while in .aco we can.

BTW, this tuto need details of implementation, or link to other in-depth tutos. 
Title: Re: The Palette FAQ
Post by: Average Mugen Guild Poster on August 25, 2010, 12:40:22 pm
What? Swatches and palettes and... what? All I do is use the color table on photoshop which saves and loads .act. :(
Title: Re: The Palette FAQ
Post by: SnowShingo on August 25, 2010, 08:45:29 pm
Kyojuu Tokusou Navetsea said, August 25, 2010, 11:23:11 am
we can not add new color to .act, while in .aco we can.

yeah you have absolutely no idea what the fuck you are talking about and should probably stop
Title: Re: The Palette FAQ
Post by: Bastard Walt on August 25, 2010, 09:42:42 pm
For a guy who has sprited hundreds of frames for an entirely original character, I'd rather think he's confused and perhaps you guys with more knowledge on such a tricky* subject should enlighten him, if you would be so kind.

Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

Title: Re: The Palette FAQ
Post by: Rozay on August 25, 2010, 10:16:20 pm
Now someone needs add to this on how to color properly instead of make bright-ass outlines on the characters.
Title: Re: The Palette FAQ
Post by: kakkoii superhero on August 25, 2010, 11:06:01 pm
ShoShingo said, August 25, 2010, 08:45:29 pm
Kyojuu Tokusou Navetsea said, August 25, 2010, 11:23:11 am
we can not add new color to .act, while in .aco we can.

yeah you have absolutely no idea what the fuck you are talking about and should probably stop

yeah I think I made a mistake, disregard what I said earlier.
Title: Re: The Palette FAQ
Post by: Bastard Thedge on August 25, 2010, 11:29:40 pm
great thread plus one.

We need [E] here to share with us his palette separation methods.
Title: Re: The Palette FAQ
Post by: kakkoii superhero on August 25, 2010, 11:36:24 pm
MalaDingDong said, August 25, 2010, 10:16:20 pm
Now someone needs add to this on how to color properly instead of make bright-ass outlines on the characters.

if you use non pure black color it would make subtler outline, or leaving out outline on the bright part but it is not a palette issue then
Title: Re: The Palette FAQ
Post by: Rozay on August 26, 2010, 12:06:43 am
Kyojuu Tokusou Navetsea said, August 25, 2010, 11:36:24 pm
if you use non pure black color it would make subtler outline, or leaving out outline on the bright part but it is not a palette issue then
Dude, it can be a palette issue if the person sucks ass at making them. For example:
(http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/3430/dsfs.gif)
BAD.

Actually, if it's alright, i'm about to make a tutorial on how to make good palettes.
Title: Re: The Palette FAQ
Post by: kakkoii superhero on August 26, 2010, 01:13:52 am
There is the way I do my color separating in PHOTOSHOP.
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b144/Navetsea/navetsea-color-separate.png)
Title: Re: The Palette FAQ
Post by: Rozay on August 26, 2010, 02:08:03 am
I'm not talking about color separation.
Title: Re: The Palette FAQ
Post by: kakkoii superhero on August 26, 2010, 02:13:55 am
and I was not replying to your post  :P
Title: Re: The Palette FAQ
Post by: Rozay on August 26, 2010, 02:18:21 am
Fair enough.
Title: Re: The Palette FAQ
Post by: kakkoii superhero on August 26, 2010, 03:12:40 am
but you're free to make your palette color scheme tuto, why not
Title: Re: The Palette FAQ
Post by: Rozay on August 26, 2010, 05:31:50 am
I'd have no idea where to put it.
Title: Re: The Palette FAQ
Post by: Jesuszilla on August 26, 2010, 06:29:03 am
Here.
Title: Re: The Palette FAQ
Post by: The Aboriginal One on August 26, 2010, 06:48:02 am
By here, he means in this very thread.
Title: Re: The Palette FAQ
Post by: Duos on August 26, 2010, 06:56:33 am
Not to hijack this topic, but I feel a bit of elaboration should be made to show the newbies about proper shading, how to do reference colors (IE, based on other characters) and the like.  I was about to type one up myself, but I don't want to seem like I'm...ahem....pissing on anyone's lawn.  :P
Title: Re: The Palette FAQ
Post by: kakkoii superhero on August 26, 2010, 07:36:29 am
there are many styles and preferences, sharing your own style doesn't count as pissing at someone's laundry
Title: Re: The Palette FAQ
Post by: Rozay on August 26, 2010, 09:24:08 pm
MC2 said, August 26, 2010, 06:56:33 am
Not to hijack this topic, but I feel a bit of elaboration should be made to show the newbies about proper shading, how to do reference colors (IE, based on other characters) and the like.  I was about to type one up myself, but I don't want to seem like I'm...ahem....pissing on anyone's lawn.  :P
Piss on my lawn, and i'll piss in your mouth...

...Ew, nevermind. Proper Palette making tutorial coming soon. If he wants, me and MC2 can split it.
Title: Re: The Palette FAQ
Post by: Jesuszilla on August 26, 2010, 09:40:59 pm
Go ahead, and I'll add it to the first post.
Title: Re: The Palette FAQ
Post by: kakkoii superhero on August 26, 2010, 10:31:01 pm
wasn't there a tuto about kof sprite including it's palette on old Sprac by walt?
Title: Re: The Palette FAQ
Post by: Jesuszilla on August 26, 2010, 11:13:25 pm
That's really specific, and I'd prefer that you keep your explanations simple.



Also, added a short list of general rules for palette making.
Title: Re: The Palette FAQ
Post by: kakkoii superhero on August 26, 2010, 11:37:36 pm
I salvaged this from my safed tuto pages:

what walt said:
Quote
Shading in the KOF style is supposed to be done through the Gradient technique. This requires that each color has anywhere from 4 to 6 shades and each of them with a considerable amount of contrast between one another.

One of the rules of Gradient is that 2 shades of a color that aren't directly neighbors to each other shouldn't touch at all, there must be at least a single pixel line in between one another. There are certain exceptions used mostly on newer sprites for really contrasting shadows, but usage should be minimum.

If you were to pick your shades from the gradient map on the left, each color should be at least 3 areas away from each other, and the lightest shade should be very bright, since the highlights are exactly what gives that crisp look to KOF styled sprites. Of course it's always recommended that you use already existing palettes in order for you not to mess up shades lacking contrast - there's no shame in using what already exists!

I wish it has more elaborate pictures regarding this palette selection

BTW
Quote
Colorizing effects is generally done easiest by desaturating the image and then using hue/saturation to colorize it. In Photoshop, this is done by first going to Image→Adjustments→Desaturate and then Image→Adjustments→Hue/saturation, making sure to check the "Colorize" box.

there is another way without desaturating the original picture.
making new layer on top, then set the layer type/ blending mode to "color"
Title: Re: The Palette FAQ
Post by: Cyclysm on August 26, 2010, 11:56:11 pm
+1 for this thread
as it will probably eliminate alot of shitty palettes that have improper shading and such from being made.

Title: Re: The Palette FAQ
Post by: Jesuszilla on August 27, 2010, 12:27:55 am
I mainly did it because I noticed a certain someone who has been here in the community for two years and didn't know which palette order was correct (and technically, both were, just the program had to use one or the other). I was alerted that people seemed to be forgetting these basic things, so I made a thread.
Title: Re: The Palette FAQ
Post by: Duos on August 27, 2010, 01:51:20 am
Alright, here's my little stance on shading.

For those who don't know, shading is an art term that refers to different "layers" of color that make the image look more lifelike.  In MUGEN, it refers to the layers of color on a character's sprite. 

Let's look at Sagat for example's sake.

(http://i862.photobucket.com/albums/ab184/ColonelGwire/shading-sagat.gif)

You can see the different layers of color on his shorts, on his tape, and even on his skin.  These layers add more depth to the sprite.  When making a palette you should make shading a priority.  It's not hard to do this, but there are some pretty common mistakes.

For this, I am going to assume we want to make Sagat's pants red.  This is what we want it to look like.

(http://i862.photobucket.com/albums/ab184/ColonelGwire/shading-sagatproper.gif)

This is how it should look (theoretically).  All the layers of shading are in place and Sagat's pants are the desired color.

Mistake #1: Repeated colors.

This is one of the first mistakes for people who get started attempting color edits.  This is pretty much when you use the same color more than once and ruin the harmony of the shading. 

(http://i862.photobucket.com/albums/ab184/ColonelGwire/shading-sagatbad.gif)

When I was a dumb kid with a copy of Capcom vs SNK 2 and too much energy, I used to make a bunch of colors like this.  There is literally no shading whatsoever on his pants.  It looks really bad as you can see.

(http://i862.photobucket.com/albums/ab184/ColonelGwire/shading-sagatbad2.gif)

This is not AS bad, but it's still not good.  An entire layer of shading was removed from his pants, and it just looks ugly.

Avoiding this mistake is as simple as making sure you don't re use the same color for each layer.

Mistake #2: Improperly layered colors

This is when your color layers are all there, but are in an order that ruins the look.  Here's an example.

(http://i862.photobucket.com/albums/ab184/ColonelGwire/shading-sagatreverse.gif)

The shading on Sagat's pants is supposed to have the lightest shade of the colors on the outer part of the shorts and the darkest being the lines around his crotch.  This palette has it in the exact opposite.  Such mistakes are not always done in this way, sometimes the palette is completely fine except for two shades that are switched around in an incorrect order that need to be swapped.

To avoid this, just take a look at the character's default palette and familiarize yourself with how the shading is layered.

Mistake #3: Inharmonious/clashing colors

This is when your colors are too different from each other to look right.

(http://i862.photobucket.com/albums/ab184/ColonelGwire/shading-sagatclash.gif)

See that orange shade?  It clashes really bad with the shades of red. 

Now I feel it is worth mentioning that some character sprites do have somewhat clashing colors on their sprites.  Most evident in Street Fighter 3 and King of Fighters characters.  Here are some examples

(http://i862.photobucket.com/albums/ab184/ColonelGwire/shading-hugo.gif)(http://i862.photobucket.com/albums/ab184/ColonelGwire/shading-kula.gif)

Hugo's colors are all over the place due to how detailed Street Fighter 3's sprites are, and Kula's colors go through totally different hues because colors in KOF have different contrast as opposed to Capcom, where the hues are pretty close to each other.  This is what gives KOF it's darker look on its sprites while Capcom's are more vibrant generally.  However, even if you are paletting these characters you can still clash too much.  For instance...

(http://i862.photobucket.com/albums/ab184/ColonelGwire/shading-kulabad.gif)

The shade of red goes into an orangish-red shade that is way too different for a consistent palette.  It looks really bad.

To avoid this mistake, just make sure your colors are close enough to be good looking shading but not too close so that you get mistake #1.

In theory, even if you avoid all three of these mistakes you can still make a palette that looks bad.  But what looks bad is subjective really.  Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.  A color scheme you think is ugly and unappealing could be cool to another person.  Just go over your palettes until you have something you think looks good.

Also when you take shading into consideration, remember that characters from different source games will have different types of shading on their sprites.  So you are going to need to learn to adapt to different styles and apply these tips to the new sprites.

I'll edit this post with some more later.  I'm gonna also show people how to make colors based on other characters/images/etc.
Title: Re: The Palette FAQ
Post by: Jesuszilla on August 27, 2010, 02:04:29 am
There's not enough contrast in the second red shade (going from darkest to lightest) like there is in the original for that Sagat palette.


Good explanations though.
Title: Re: The Palette FAQ
Post by: Rozay on August 27, 2010, 02:35:38 am
Damnit MC2, I was almost done with mine.
Title: Re: The Palette FAQ
Post by: Duos on August 27, 2010, 02:37:42 am
Dammit, contrast.  That's the word I was looking for but kept slipping my mind.  >_<

Thanks JZ.  Now when I update that I will have an easier time explaining stuff.
Title: Re: The Palette FAQ
Post by: kakkoii superhero on August 27, 2010, 03:20:53 am
hmm, maybe this is only applicable to custom sprite...
but anyway:
color treatments in photoshop, for sprite and illustration
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b144/Navetsea/navetsea-color-treatment1.png)
Title: Re: The Palette FAQ
Post by: Rozay on August 27, 2010, 03:39:26 am
A little tutorial on reference palettes.

Usually when making palettes, it’s a good idea to make some based on either the various appearances the character has appeared in or on other characters.

Other Characters
Usually, this is the easiest type of palette to make, especially if the reference character is from the same source game. If this is the case, then one can just transfer the value numbers. Let’s take Ryu and Shin Gouki for example.
(http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/2401/68930820.png)
Since they’re both from CvS, the color values were transfer rather than “guessing” the colors, producing a more desirable palette. However, this can also go wrong, as in this case:
(http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/9444/45127320.png)
Not only is this a bad palette in general, but notice how they tried to guess the color of Ken’s gi and hair. It’s quite obvious that they failed.

I’ll update this later with better explanations and pictures along with a little guide on palettes based on different appearences, such as official art, games and the like.
Title: Re: The Palette FAQ
Post by: GT on August 27, 2010, 07:03:02 am
Why is it that when I download a png the palette always comes out as reversed for me?
Title: Re: The Palette FAQ
Post by: kakkoii superhero on August 27, 2010, 07:40:09 am
because it is like that, convert to pcx first
Title: Re: The Palette FAQ
Post by: GT on August 27, 2010, 09:59:01 am
:beamgoi:
Title: Re: The Palette FAQ
Post by: Cybaster on August 27, 2010, 12:04:30 pm
Or because you're using the bad program ?

I think [E] had written a real tutorial about his separation method.
I've found this for the meantime : http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=72627.msg604427#msg604427
Title: Re: The Palette FAQ
Post by: kakkoii superhero on August 27, 2010, 12:24:26 pm
it is indeed reversed in photoshop.