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M.U.G.E.N Central => FullGame development => Anti-Gouki Project => Topic started by: Basara Dandy on June 18, 2012, 09:44:03 pm

Title: Grappler-like clone: The ideas thread
Post by: Basara Dandy on June 18, 2012, 09:44:03 pm
Well, made this thread for ideas and suggerences for this new clone, made by popular petition :D

You can post anything I can use for a clone like this: name, colors, movelist, etc. Here're the suggestions you made in main thread:
[Isaac] said, June 15, 2012, 03:54:44 pm
GRAPPLER GOUKI should have an Argentina Back Breaker Move. The THROW OPPONENT UP sprites could be his Throw Fail anim!
devilgenemugen said, June 15, 2012, 06:20:36 pm
I am thinking that he may have Goro Daimon's Tenchi Gaeshi on him
chris20855 said, June 17, 2012, 04:59:19 am
I'd say Slam Master, with a more Tannish-brown color scheme. I'd probably look a lot into Alex and Haggar for moves. I actually had a movelist for an OC grappler arranged a while ago, if you'd want to take a look at it.
perrywinkle said, June 18, 2012, 04:37:19 pm
YES YES YES! on a grapple akuma.

Zangief, Claw's Izuna drop and GRIFFON!
FeLo_Llop said, June 18, 2012, 04:47:17 pm
I'd say "El Cogedor" but given the meaning of "coger" in Latin America... :/ maybe: "El Grappler"?

About colours...What about brown?

So, let's the madness begin!! :twisted:
Title: Re: Grappler-like clone: The ideas thread
Post by: Blackmore on June 18, 2012, 11:35:13 pm
I think he'd benefit from having Tizoc's BIIIG FAAALLLLLLL

I dunno why, I just think it would be funny. :P
Title: Re: Grappler-like clone: The ideas thread
Post by: TheSnackist on June 18, 2012, 11:44:01 pm
Maybe all his grapples should be comedic over the top slapstick! Tripping the opponent, falling over backwards while holding them, "accidentally" tossing them in the air or the like. In which case he should wear pink ala Dan. And alt color should be purple ala that guy from MSHvsSF.... The "superfan" character.
Title: Re: Grappler-like clone: The ideas thread
Post by: Basara Dandy on June 19, 2012, 12:09:35 am
I also agree about making his gi pink would convert him into Dan Hibiki, which isn't my intention to this clone (so no moves from him nor Norimaro here). I wanna take some ideas about you already said in th main thread and here:
-I like Alex, it's one of my mains in SFIII, so I could add some stuff from him. I think I'll take his colors for the clone, maybe
-Yeah, something like Argentina Backbreaker and moves from Zangief and Tizoc :D
-I like the name of "Slam Master", it's a good reference, as well a great wrestling game. By now, the prototype name for him is just "The Grappler", but I'm not sure about it

You got me some ideas for moves, but I still need to define a movelist for him, basically 1 throw (a normal one), 4 specials and 4 supers, as well a Special Skill. About this, the only I was thinking is something like "Deflect", a command move that can negate projeciles, something like that Zangief's hand move
Title: Re: Grappler-like clone: The ideas thread
Post by: TheSnackist on June 19, 2012, 12:54:00 am
What if the "deflect" took the form of a bear hug type move where he absorbs the projectile by catching the energy?
Title: Re: Grappler-like clone: The ideas thread
Post by: chris20855 on June 19, 2012, 01:25:25 am
TheSnackist said, June 19, 2012, 12:54:00 am
What if the "deflect" took the form of a bear hug type move where he absorbs the projectile by catching the energy?

I second this motion.
Title: Re: Grappler-like clone: The ideas thread
Post by: Seadragon77 on June 19, 2012, 02:30:51 am
Since this clone is going to be grappler, here are some ideas I was thinking of...

Throw: If you have seen MK vs SF 3 (you know, the flash animation), then you may remember when Shin Level 2 Akuma had Chemeleon on his shoulder and ran into the force ball. Well, combine that animation with Abel's Falling Sky and there you go.

Specials: Since this is a grappler, I would like to see these kind of moves:
 -Powerful throw, like a Spinning Pile Driver or such.
 -A linking throw combo. It might not be easy to do, but if anything, you can base this off the Mexican Magma Drive that Armor King uses in Tekken 6
 -Short range and long range special throw. Can be done with the same motion but the results are different.
 -Anti-Air throw. Think Hugo's Shootdown Backbreaker

Supers: Here are some super ideas...
 -Stronger version of the powerful throw Special
 -Gamble of Darun styled Super. Think linking throw combo raised to the maximum level
 -Stronger version of the Anti-Air Throw
 -Since this is an Akuma clone, it has to have a Shun Goku Satsu. What you can do instead of punches and kicks is to make it look like he's throwing them around in the darkness.
Title: Re: Grappler-like clone: The ideas thread
Post by: chris20855 on June 19, 2012, 04:17:32 am
Here's my two cents about a moveset:

-Throw-

-Specials-

-Supers-
Title: Re: Grappler-like clone: The ideas thread
Post by: Cybaster on June 19, 2012, 02:59:28 pm
Taking moves from other chars as a tribute looks like a nice idea.

- Clark's Argentina Backbreaker. You could take POTS' Gouki Kongou Kokuretsu Zan starting sprite for the backbreaker part.
- Zangief's piledriver is kind of a must.
- Aerial throw (command move or special) would be nice.
- A throw where he grabs the opponent, throws him to the wall (the opponent would run) and then the opponent comes back running (as in Slammasters IIRC), and from there Gouki would have several choices of moves.
Title: Re: Grappler-like clone: The ideas thread
Post by: Magma Dragoon MK II on June 19, 2012, 04:23:32 pm
Regular moves:

* Alex's Back+HP command move, which he grab the opponent and headbutt him;

Specials:

* Daimon's Tenchi Gaeshi: regular grab;
* Zangief's Flying Power Bomb: distance grab;
* Tizoc's Active Tufon: distance overhead grab;
* Hugo's Ultra Throw: wall-bounce grab, setup for...
* Clark's Napalm Stretch: anti-aerial grab;
* Geese's Atemi Nage: counter grab;
* Izuna Drop: air-only grab;

Hypers:

* Zangief's Final Atomic Buster: regular hyper;
* Clark's Running Spree: running hyper;
* Potemkin's Heavenly Potemkin Buster: anti-aerial hyper;
* Yamazaki's Drill: variation hyper;
* Iron Tager's King of Tager: finishing hyper.
Title: Re: Grappler-like clone: The ideas thread
Post by: Basara Dandy on June 20, 2012, 09:59:03 pm
Wow, a lot of specials and supers, thanks guys :D I'm noting everything to make a "casting" for the movelist ;)

About the colors, I think I got the ones I'll use for the clone, soon I'll post you a sprite of it ;)
Title: Re: Grappler-like clone: The ideas thread
Post by: Bastard Walt on June 22, 2012, 12:16:22 am
He definitely needs something to defend himself from fireballs like Alex's Chop, or Gief's Vanishing Flat (green hand)

Also, needs an Air throw, like Guile's back breaker (easy neutral jump sprites, like Guile), or Clark's Napalm Stretch (it doesn't have to look the same way, but at least to work like it - quick startup) and maybe like Clark or Goro Daimon he'll need a ground hit follow up ... which could be his horse stance stomp :P

EASY MONEY Gouki has everything you need.
Title: Re: Grappler-like clone: The ideas thread
Post by: Erroratu on June 22, 2012, 12:17:34 am
Akuma=Shemus
Title: Re: Grappler-like clone: The ideas thread
Post by: Diepod on June 22, 2012, 12:55:03 am
If you must make a grappler, I suggest something like these:

(http://www.zweifuss.ca/colorswap.php?pcolorstring=UrienPalette.bin&pcolornum=7&pname=urien/urien-throw.gif)
(http://www.zweifuss.ca/colorswap.php?pcolorstring=QPalette.bin&pcolornum=0&pname=q/q-throw.gif)
(http://www.zweifuss.ca/colorswap.php?pcolorstring=QPalette.bin&pcolornum=0&pname=q/q-kneeslam.gif)
(http://www.zweifuss.ca/colorswap.php?pcolorstring=GillPalette.bin&pcolornum=1&pname=gill/gill-hold-right.gif)
Title: Re: Grappler-like clone: The ideas thread
Post by: Basara Dandy on June 22, 2012, 05:48:28 pm
[Isaac] said, June 22, 2012, 12:16:22 am
He definitely needs something to defend himself from fireballs like Alex's Chop, or Gief's Vanishing Flat (green hand)
I was thinking in that, too. The "Deflect" move as Special Skill, could work great on him to avoid fireball spammers (inb4 The Projectile), similar than Roll/Backroll on Powerless One. So it would be a command move instead a special or super move, then I can use all the other special and supers as grabs and throws, as I thought. I was thinking in using the chop anim for the Deflect move, could work well on him

Again, thanks to all for your suggestions, all this feedback is very useful for me :D (I've few experience with grapplers in general)
Title: Re: Grappler-like clone: The ideas thread
Post by: Bastard Walt on June 22, 2012, 07:39:38 pm
they're called "suggestions" not suggerences :P

the projectile deflection should be a special, because otherwise it would be broken, like the parry system in SF3. Zoning disappeared because it was as easy as tapping forward, barely any risk. That's why Capcom ditched it in SF4, or added a risk to the Focus Attack like actually losing life, but could be regenerated.

I'm a Rose player (I'm looking at you, better not mess her up! >:( ) and I'm perfectly comfortable with having her reflect being QCB+P, the powered up scarf actually stays a bit longer on screen, instead of having a strict timing like parry, or quick 1 button action.
Title: Re: Grappler-like clone: The ideas thread
Post by: Basara Dandy on June 22, 2012, 08:23:48 pm
Hahaha, you're right, fixed now ;)

Yeah, I didn't think in that, you're right, better leave Deflect as a special instead a command move. But that left me without a basic feature for him as Special Skill, all the ones I got were already... no wait!! I've some suggestions for his Special Skill:
-Power Instinct Backdash: the only one in fighting games that can avoid all kind of hits, since normal punches and kicks to supers
-Rapid Attack: another feature from Power Instinct series, during dash (or in this case, run), you can press punch/kick and the character perform a rapid attack that knock-off the enemy
-T.O.P.: The Garou: MOTW feature, when if it's made forward when gethit you can regain some energy
-Attack/Defense Up: I took this from Yuki from NGBC, when you can active this and the clone will have more attack/defense for a few time. Obviously being a Special Skill, it will active this feature and uses Powerbar, just like SFA's Custom Combo (implanted in one of the clones)

I think I'll make a poll for this, what do you think?? Also, my WIP page was updated AND WITH THE CLONE INSIDE!! (https://sites.google.com/a/mugen-infantry.net/basara/Home/wips/agp) :D
Title: Re: Grappler-like clone: The ideas thread
Post by: Erroratu on June 22, 2012, 10:33:21 pm
Maybe use Excel from Street Fighter EX series,that makes you 2X faster,and every hit you make chains into a combo?
Title: Re: Grappler-like clone: The ideas thread
Post by: Basara Dandy on June 22, 2012, 10:36:06 pm
As I know, SFEX's Excel is the adaptation of SFA's Custom Combo, so it makes basically the same :P

OK; I'll make the poll then!! help me to choose, guys ;)
Title: Re: Grappler-like clone: The ideas thread
Post by: tehdevil on June 23, 2012, 06:41:11 pm
If Yamazaki's Drills are added in, then it really remind me of Jun's Ogre where his Ogre have those Yamazaki's Drills :P a good ideal to have this move since I like Yamazaki's Drills moves.

I can't decide which to choose from T.O.P and Attack/Defense Up as these two fit this clone well. T.O.P, since he is a Grappler, he might have difficulties to fight against certain characters like projectiles, so the T.O.P can help him to gain some life back. At first I can't decide which to choose, but I also think that Attack/Defense Up is also another good choice for Grappler clone.
Title: Re: Grappler-like clone: The ideas thread
Post by: Segatron on June 24, 2012, 10:21:25 pm
I was thinking os something like maybe A Gouki Clone with Killer Instinct like fighting style.A Clone that fits those guys I mean regardless he executes a fighting of the move set below.
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty
1. Fulgore :Laser Storm         = D, DF, F + P
Laser Storm x2      = B, B, D, DF, F + QP
Laser Storm x3      = F, B, B, D, DF, F + QP

2.Cinder :Projectile Immunity = F, DF, D, DB, B + MP
Invisible           = F, DF, D, DB, B + FP
Combo Breaker       = F, D, DF + K

3. Chief Thunder :Phoenix             = D, DF, F + #K

4.Eyedol: Bull Charge   = B, F + WP
Ground Stomp  = B + MP

5.Sabrewulf:Flaming Bat         = D, DB, B + #P
Spinning Claw       = (B), F + #P
Spinning Claw 2     = (F), B + MP
Jumping Slash       = (B), F + FK
Stampede Slash      = (B), F + MK
Rolling Slash       = (B), F + QK
Howl                = F, DF, D, DB + FK

He Could use These Super moves
1.No Mercy 2          = [Sweep Distance] F, DF, D, DB, B + Strong P (FULGORE)
 FULGORE fires a laser from his eyes and burns his opponent to death.
2.No Mercy 1          = [Stand Close] B, B, B + MK (SabreWulf)
No Mercy 1          = Sabrewulf stabs the opponent with one of his claws

And The finish
No Mercy 1          = [Jump Distance] B, DB, D, DF, F + QK
No Mercy 1          = Cinder fires a stream of flames at the opponent and then opponent turns to dust.
Title: Re: Grappler-like clone: The ideas thread
Post by: chris20855 on June 25, 2012, 06:11:43 am
Not exactly the place to be posting that kind of stuff, Segatron. It sounds like a solid idea, though.
Title: Re: Grappler-like clone: The ideas thread
Post by: Segatron on June 25, 2012, 02:03:05 pm
Grappling clone of Akuma  i am still giving a thought of moves it should have
Title: Re: Grappler-like clone: The ideas thread
Post by: Erroratu on June 25, 2012, 11:06:09 pm
if you ever watched Wrestling on tv,then you should have an idea or two
Title: Re: Grappler-like clone: The ideas thread
Post by: Basara Dandy on June 26, 2012, 04:31:38 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/cIp0f.gif)
This is the final design for this clone. Here're some statements I made about him:
-His official name will be Slam Master (thanks chris20855 for suggesting the name)
-The colors he has comes from Alex, since there wasn't enough green gi clones I opted for these ones. Also thinking about the 2nd player will have a darker green, mainly from Haggar
-The pose comes from the grab/throw attempt anim and symbolize what this character is about
-There're a few clones who'll have more than 1000 of life, and Slam Master will be one of them (the others are The Incredible Akuma, Metallic One and King Gouki)
-He will be voiced by MalaDingDong as he offered when the idea was born
-Deflect move will be one of his specials (thanks Walt)

Now seeing a casting for his other specials and supers between the list you already named. Also, keep voting on the poll, until now PI Backdash and Attack/Defense Up are very close, you'll decide which Special Skill I'll put to this clone ;)
Title: Re: Grappler-like clone: The ideas thread
Post by: chris20855 on June 26, 2012, 08:34:05 pm
Olive green is a much nicer color than brown for this guy. Looks great!
Title: Re: Grappler-like clone: The ideas thread
Post by: Bastard Walt on June 26, 2012, 10:17:55 pm
That's Pistacchio green, but Alex is Olive green.

You should go with Olive, which is also Haggar's color for P1!
Title: Re: Grappler-like clone: The ideas thread
Post by: Basara Dandy on June 26, 2012, 10:28:02 pm
I borrowed those colors from SFIII sprite of Alex (the light tones), also I was need of some light green in clones, so I use that :P and the olive color will be for P2, it's decided already XD
Title: Re: Grappler-like clone: The ideas thread
Post by: Rozay on June 26, 2012, 10:51:03 pm
I did some fixes on the palette for you:
(http://i.imgur.com/cJ2RT.png)
Left is mines, right is yours.

I darkened the gi just a bit so that it's still light green but so people can't complain either. I also fixed the skin (made it kinda darker, fixed the contrast issues). Feel free not to use it, but I just needed to do it just because.

I also noticed some palette issues with your other clones, mainly Fire Demon. I may fix them as well if you want.
Title: Re: Grappler-like clone: The ideas thread
Post by: Segatron on June 26, 2012, 10:55:19 pm
Awesome Dude Slam Master The Clone With Grappling techniques Will he have famous moves like the Attitude Adjustment and Choke-slam etc.
Title: Re: Grappler-like clone: The ideas thread
Post by: Basara Dandy on June 27, 2012, 12:57:08 am
Thanks man ;)

@MDD: Wow, looks great, thanks :D sure, you can change Fire Demon (and others) if you wish ;)
Title: Re: Grappler-like clone: The ideas thread
Post by: MetaSkipper on October 06, 2012, 05:21:46 am
Needs to be able to protect the clone-filled skies.

On a more serious note, does he have any anti-air grabs?
Title: Re: Grappler-like clone: The ideas thread
Post by: Basara Dandy on October 08, 2012, 09:30:40 pm
Yes, he'll have one, maybe something like Zangief or Rose use in SFA series. As I say before, seeing the move roster he'll have, but an anti-air is for sure a must in the movelist ;)
Title: Re: Grappler-like clone: The ideas thread
Post by: MetaSkipper on October 11, 2012, 06:17:23 am
Been playing some of the UMvC3 Haggar. He has some cool things, like his Backdrop, Wild Swing, and Hoodlum Launcher, that I'd like to see in this Akuma.
Title: Re: Grappler-like clone: The ideas thread
Post by: Nedflandeurse on October 14, 2012, 10:38:13 am
Perhaps a chain throw system? The kind of move you can cancel in various grapple moves?
Submission moves like in wrestling games? Move with button mash to increase the power...
Title: Re: Grappler-like clone: The ideas thread
Post by: Basara Dandy on January 03, 2013, 11:18:58 pm
Updating this thread for some news about Slam Master you have to know:
-His Special Skill will be Power Instinct Backdash, about Attack/Defense Up I opted to leave it as a super that uses 1 powerbar for one of the modes, but that means its duration will be longer that if the move is a Special Skill (I opted for Defense, since there're other clones who has this kind of supers focused on Attack or Speed)
-Defined his movelist, you'll know when the AGP's Public Beta is released (during january, stay tuned)
-As I said before, Deflect move will be a special move for Slam Master
-Playing more with grappler characters to get used to this kind of gameplay and be inspired to make this clone ;)
Title: Re: Grappler-like clone: The ideas thread
Post by: Xan on January 04, 2013, 01:02:34 am
I sure as heck hope he's got a throw like Hugo's HCB+K throw, setting P2 up for some juggling. Can't wait for the beta (to test it :twisted:).
Title: Re: Grappler-like clone: The ideas thread
Post by: Magma Dragoon MK II on January 04, 2013, 09:56:51 pm
Patiently waiting for this!
Title: Re: Grappler-like clone: The ideas thread
Post by: Basara Dandy on January 07, 2013, 12:34:41 am
OK, the Beta 1 has been released, now I'll show you the final movelist for Slam Master as was wrote in fullgame's movelist and in Clone Thread, but with full explanation of them:

SPECIAL SKILL:
-Power Instinct Backdash: B, B
The second majority in the poll, I prefered to choose it as the SS of Slam Master, with this move now you can escape from any kind of attacks only making classic backdash as PI chars do it (and did it in every of my PI chars I made for MUGEN)

THROW:
-Backbreaker: B/F + y (close)
A classic for grapplers, don't need to explain this :P

SPECIALS:
-Deflect: D, DF, F + punch
Similar to Zangief's Banishing Flat and Alex's Flash Chop, Slam Master can negates projectiles using this move, I'll use the up-2-down chop animation Akuma uses in CVS2 seen in my other clones to get other use for it
-Piledrive: 360º + punch
This one will be Haggar's version, which SM will make a forward jump to stomp opponent's head on the ground after grabbing him. Just like Zangief, the move should work close, but the grab move will be like an attempt to grab when the opponent is far (also seen in all SFA3 chars with normal throw move)
-Aerial Slam: F, D, DF + punch
This one took from Zangief's Aerial Russian Slam super and Rose's Soul Throw special. Slam Master will make a diagonal fwd-up jump with his hand(s) to the front that's also a grab, an anti-air move for SM that fits better with this clone
-Come At Me, Bro!: D, DF, F + kick
A counter. SM will adopt a pose for a seconds, if he'll get a hit close (not projectile), he'll grab the opponent and apply some throws. I'm thinking about Goro Daimon and Orochi Yashiro for the move if he's success (some hits to the ground and then go to fly to the air)... or maybe some of Abel moves :P

SUPERS:
-Spinning Piledrive: 720º + punch
Mode 1 super. Different from normal version, this one will be Zangief's, with the rolls and all :P and of course will make more damage than normal version
-Running Grappler: D, DF, F x2 + kick
Mode 1 super. Here I used Orochi Yashiro's Odoru Daichi/Dancing Earth, basically SM will run to the opponent, and if he's close to him, he'll grab him and then will jump and smash him into the ground
-Argentina Backbreaker: 720º + punch
Mode 2 super. Clark Still's trademark move. 'Nuff said 8)
-Defense Up: D, DF, F x2 + kick
Mode 2 super. This was the winner in Special Skill poll made time ago, but I prefered to leave it as a super since that's mean more time with defense increased than if it was just a command move. Also because some other clones will have the same kind of super, but with attack or speed increased instead defense.
Title: Re: Grappler-like clone: The ideas thread
Post by: Xan on January 07, 2013, 12:59:59 am
I'm still disappointed in no Hugo-style HCB+K throw. Whatev, can't have everything. I'm thinking the Daimon-style slamming the ground will work for the counter. It's all like "YOU WANNA HIT ME? EAT THE FLOOR!"
Title: Re: Grappler-like clone: The ideas thread
Post by: C-G-U on January 07, 2013, 06:42:01 pm
Give him some irish whip moves, or those run forward/back dashes like El Fuerte/King, and a possibly a kinniku buster if the sprites are available to recreate it.

Will he have any chain grapples btw?
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty
Title: Re: Grappler-like clone: The ideas thread
Post by: Basara Dandy on January 08, 2013, 09:35:41 pm
Madam CanCan said, January 07, 2013, 12:59:59 am
I'm thinking the Daimon-style slamming the ground will work for the counter. It's all like "YOU WANNA HIT ME? EAT THE FLOOR!"
Yes, you're right, I was thinking in the same thing for that counter move ;)

C-G-U said, January 07, 2013, 06:42:01 pm
Give him some irish whip moves, or those run forward/back dashes like El Fuerte/King, and a possibly a kinniku buster if the sprites are available to recreate it.

Will he have any chain grapples btw?
I was thinking in something like that, but I prefer to be more focused on general grappling style instead using Lucha Libre style. Maybe in a future for an AGP2 I could add a LL clone to be rival for Slam Master :p
Title: Re: Grappler-like clone: The ideas thread
Post by: Xan on January 09, 2013, 12:49:37 am
Nothing about the lack of a Hugo styled HCB+K throw?
Title: Re: Grappler-like clone: The ideas thread
Post by: Basara Dandy on January 09, 2013, 05:33:45 pm
I don't know, maybe... until the moves aren't coded and the clone released, I say the list isn't the definitive. Let me see about it ;)