The Mugen Fighters Guild

M.U.G.E.N Central => FullGame development => MFG Presents Street Fighter => Topic started by: FeLo_Llop on March 19, 2014, 12:13:32 am

Title: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: FeLo_Llop on March 19, 2014, 12:13:32 am
Hi, this project came from Felo_Llop's idea (look below) of making a new Street Fighter mugen full-game.
Meant as a Mugen Fighter Guild collab, this can be considered as a way to teach people how to create for this fighting game engine.
This topic is for general brainstorming, it can be used for poll and whatnot. Check the other topics for more detailed informations about characters, gameplay mechanics etc. .

Users who have access to the dropbox folder:
Alex Sinigaglia
Renzo F
Just No Point
SageHarpuiaJDJ


Original topic title: Street Fighter
Original post by Felo_Llop in the spoiler.

Spoiler: Felo's original post (click to see content)
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: City_Hunter on March 19, 2014, 12:20:12 am
well even if i suck at coding and spriting I fully support that project
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: ShinZankuro on March 19, 2014, 12:21:33 am
Hi dude! I'm happy to see you again here o/


About a final boss, can I suggest one? Gill. He deserves more attention xD


EDIT: Or uses Bison, but I noticed you want to bring back some nostalgic elements from original SF2 [Like the "burn state" you said], so I suggest to bring back Bison.


Spriting suggestion: Bison with mix spriting from SFZ2 and SF2/CVS with Cape [To fit more with classic Bengus artworks from SUPER SF2 arc]
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: City_Hunter on March 19, 2014, 12:26:26 am
i think gill could and there is some cvs sprite for him
also felo do you have an idea on the stage and the roster personnaly i think it could be cool if every char could have their own stage
good luck buddy
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Bad News GBK on March 19, 2014, 12:28:15 am
I could and would support a project like that with the help of my fighting games fan art community on dA. Recently we put sf2 portraits together for fun

(http://th08.deviantart.net/fs71/200H/f/2014/063/8/9/choose_a_fighter__ken_masters_by_arwencilla-d78y496.png) (http://th08.deviantart.net/fs70/200H/i/2014/061/5/6/edmond_honda_by_cloudsdevourer-d78mmcu.png)

And i bet that not a few people from there would like to be part of a great SF Mugen Project through images drawn for something like that.

Final Boss? Mighty Bison of course!
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Koop on March 19, 2014, 12:41:56 am
Sounds interesting but you need to make sure not to underestimate the workload. It all sounds good on paper, but the actual implementation is what prevents a lot of similar projects from getting off the ground. That said, it's always interesting when projects like this are attempted, so good luck with it.


Final Boss should be Gill of course.
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Just No Point on March 19, 2014, 01:52:53 am
Just titling it Street Fighter it could start off with SF1. Then add in SF2, SFA, SF3, SF4?

To simplify your game system ideas you could have an ism from each game. SF1 would be unique as it could be more inspired by KOF with runs, Desperations, sidesteps, etc

As more characters are added the game could go through a set story in arcade.

Order
1-10 = SF1-Sagat would be number 10, beating him triggers an ending
11-20 = SFA-Bison would be 20, triggers and ending
21 - 30 = SF2-Akuma is the boss? Another Bison?
31 - 40 = SF3-Gill is boss final ending

If SF4 is made insert 10 before SF2 and watch the story go to hell =p Seth would be boss
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Memo on March 19, 2014, 03:11:36 am
Felo this sounds good,  I wish you would of had this idea sooner before
I started my project.

But if your serious and want to do this hit me up,  I always work on
more than 1 thing and I wont mind helping you out coding or whatever.

Yo those big ports are awesome!
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Alex Sinigaglia on March 19, 2014, 11:14:13 am
Seth and Vega (Dictator) as mid bosses, Gill as the final one.

I'm happy to see the character won't have a power charge, I'm tired of it.

I'm not sure about implementing both the focus and the parry; it would be cool, but think that you would only use the parry over the focus: with the parry you don't receive damage, with focus you can (although you recover a bit of health after that)... I don't know honestly.
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: FeLo_Llop on March 20, 2014, 12:11:39 am
Thanks for the replies, people :) I didn't know if it's possibe in mugen, but saw something like that in the Avengers vs X-Men game. So I'm happy as Hell.

As there are fans of Dictator, Gouki or Gill, it wouldn't be fair at all choosing one of them as final boss. Instead, maybe making a new final boss could do the cut. It could be Pandora, is a simple design: nude girl ALL in black+red eyes+white hair. Done. Just add the glowing tattoos, etc.

Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

I know it's...A LOT, but maybe making a small beta with 6 characters for seeing if it's possible to do. By the moment, not putting "Not-done" characters(Joe, Geki, Rufus, etc). That would delay and make this impossible, so, is a "should wait-let's see...".

The -ISM thing was something I thought too. Mostly because some things share the same commands(Leap Attack and Focus, as example), so that could interefere in te gameplay.

Thanks for your time people!! Have a nice day!!
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: ShinZankuro on March 20, 2014, 12:17:16 am
Quote
Where putting the previous bosses? Maybe something as a minigame could do the cut....Phase 1 could be "inside Shadaloo". DOLLS squad attacking and as soon as Round 2 arrives, you directly fight against Dictator. Phase 2 could be the same, with Twelve "squadron" and Gill for the 2nd round. I know it sounds crazy.


A transmorph code-between-rounds like Xslaught's did with his Onslaught and Abyss, could be useful.
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: City_Hunter on March 20, 2014, 12:43:29 am
well maybe gill could be playable also the pandora thing sound pretty interesing
hope you find someone to help you
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: FeLo_Llop on March 20, 2014, 03:55:56 pm
Yes, that's the code I was thinking in :)!!

Also, this is the QUICK, SIMPLE and CLEAN Pandora's design:
(http://i58.tinypic.com/raxgkz.png)

Of course, the "evil" version would have glowing tattoos.

PS: Yes, I know it's not an ellaborated design but hey Ryu :P!
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Pre-Teen Music Maker on March 20, 2014, 04:08:55 pm
Love the design, Felo.

Simple, yet very effective... Can't wait to see this concept come together.
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: [Judas] on March 20, 2014, 04:28:53 pm
Welp... so much for being on exactly the same page as far as Pandora goes.
Spoiler: :( (click to see content)
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: City_Hunter on March 20, 2014, 04:44:19 pm
cool felo maybe something like unknow in tekken tag first round you face ingrid and the second round you face her pandora mode
like unknow/jun kazama
good luck
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: FeLo_Llop on March 20, 2014, 05:47:38 pm
Thanks people! I was inspired by "Tekken's angel+Gouken's stance+hey, I'm a floating lady". By the way, not sure if making a pants lke those or changing them for a skirt.

@[Judas]: I had that design in mind and translated it into pixels....yes, it was fully black for skin, and the white outlines making the silouette, but wasn't happy with the result. I'll post it later :)!
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Balthazar on March 20, 2014, 06:22:08 pm
Awesome you brought this to life, hope you get lots of support, I could probably help with some additional animations.
By the way in the SF3 games before 3rd Strike, the Leap Attack/Overhead Attack was imputted with down, down+medium attack.
So if you go with that, it won't interfere with Focus Attack.
Btw there's a LOT of added basic stuff, I'm pretty sure a bunch of it would need to get scrapped ;)

Starting with SF1 would be nice, but like you said there's the problem of not having all of those character's sprites done in CvS style and would delay the project a lot. But I agree it would be nice if the releases would be like 10 chars from a 'saga', then get feedback and fix/enhance those characters.  Then when it's pretty finalized, the next saga chars could be worked on.
Since there are no SF1 chars sprites in CvS, I would suggest doing a mixture of SF1/2/3/4 saga charcters and New Challengers/SFEX/SFA characters for each package/release.
The first package would have (for example) Ryu, Ken, Gen, Birdie, Sagat (final boss) from SF1, with Guy, Cody, R.Mika, Rolento, Sodom added from SFZ.
The second package could add Chun-Li, Guile, Boxer, Claw, Dictator (new/stronger final boss) from SF2, with Sakura, Cammy, Skullomania (sprites made by SeanAltly), DeeJay, Fei-Long from SFEX/SSF2. These are just suggestions from the top of my head though.

Anyway, it depends if you want to make this game sort of a re-telling of the SF1/2/3/4 stories, or simply a 'Dream Match'.
I am not sure if it really needs a new final boss, I would say the focus should go on the unique animations that will be added to make the game feel unique (such as the unique throw-recoveries for each character and perhaps new Ultra Combos).
Oh also what about the Overhead Attack from SFEX? Basicly it was a slow, unblockable attack that cost 1 superbar, but when it landed it stunned the enemy for quite a while. Yes I do love me some SFEX, not afraid to admit it.

Not sure about the inclusion of Isms, sounds like a lot of extra work to me.

Anyway, those are my two cents :) Good luck!

ps. Yes those portraits would be sexy :D
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Alex Sinigaglia on March 20, 2014, 07:44:07 pm
Balthazar said, March 20, 2014, 06:22:08 pm
By the way in the SF3 games before 3rd Strike, the Leap Attack/Overhead Attack was imputted with down, down+ any attack button.

Fixed.
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Not Bastard Renzo F on March 20, 2014, 08:24:54 pm
I think adding too much game mechanics would ruin the idea. Maybe chosing a few ones that could work together is the best path. For example, I think adding focus and parrying could be a bit redundant, since they work as a defensive measure (for the most part).

Maybe we could take every game mechanic found on every SF game (or take borrowed a few from other games), categorize them and select the ones that seem more interesting:

Movement options:
Run
Dash
Air Dash

Defensive options:
Air Block
Parrying
Just Defense
Focus

Offensive options:
Supers
Ultras
DMs

etc. etc. etc.
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Just No Point on March 21, 2014, 03:24:36 pm
One wonders if this could become some sort of community project/way to teach people how to create.

Even if you have no coding knowledge I feel you should join this project. We can assign different job tasks. Data mining, artists, sff creation, air creation, modular coding (where we would post pieces that would need to be coded)

I'm thinking that like this even if a person doesn't know how to code we can help explain things in blocks. Like someone would be assigned to code Ryu's standing punches.

Before that we would need to post something explaining all the variables that may be needed and what they are used for and examples with how to use them. The data miner will need to give us the data needed for damage, slide values on hit, frame advantage, etc

If all of this is posted beforehand it will be simple for people that have never coded to understand what they need to do with this information.

Now, we don't have to be 100% accurate on everything since this will not be a remake of a particular game. The data mining will be for a base. CVS2 doesn't have a hitbox viewer so most CLSN data will come from other games and tweaked as needed for this one.

Since I'm pretty familiar with leading large community projects in the webcomic community if I'm not stepping on toes here I would like to see if we could get this rolling. There is no guarantees it won't fizzle out. But without a good direction and someone taking the helm to push this it sure won't go anywhere.

My skill sets are as follows. Sprite ripping, data mining, sff/air creation, slight coding experience with the aptitude to learn more (I do better in an environment like this)

If we can get at least 4 more coders interested to just help out I'll make the thread Thread Of The Week and we will start being more serious about getting this project off the ground.

So if you are interested please post here with what skills you may wish to contribute. The amount of time you can give this will not be an issue as the goal is to allow people to fill in different areas.

We may even call this Mugen Fighter's Guild Presents: Street Fighter or something
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Not Bastard Renzo F on March 21, 2014, 03:45:10 pm
I'm interested.

My skills include:
Character Coding; I'm fairly decent, I created some characters years ago
Data Mining (I'm totally into framedate ans systems mechanics and such)

I can also know how to do AIRs and SFFs, but I rather prefer doing coding or data mining.
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Bad News GBK on March 21, 2014, 03:50:41 pm
I am interested-
My skills:
Sharing the ideas with a ton of people on dA and involve them if this project is interesting for them with drawn art like the SF II Profile Images i posted here a few days ago.

I like the SF Mugen game idea and i bet people from my community FGE would like to draw intro/ending images and what else can be a part of the game.
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Snakebyte on March 21, 2014, 03:52:25 pm
I can sprite edit pretty well?
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Balthazar on March 21, 2014, 03:54:00 pm
I like the sound of that. It can indeed be something like MFG Collab: Street Fighter.
Though let's not get TOO far ahead and 'pull it away' from FeLo just like that, he hasn't replied since and he'll be like 'what happened' when he gets back.
But I do agree it should have system mechanics pulled from like every Street Fighter game ever, mashed into one (though ofcourse after reviewing all of them and going with the best ones while keepig things balanced).

I'm sure most of you are aware I'm pretty good at spriting/sprite editing (though I hate editing, I'd rather redraw the whole thing then EDIT it),
and somewhat of an idea engineer/quality checker.
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Just No Point on March 21, 2014, 03:59:18 pm
Yes, Felo will be the over all director as it's his idea. I'm not trying to step on his toes ^_^; so I hope he does not feel as such. I'm taking the course I feel gives a project as this the best chance of coming to life. If he doesn't like what I'm doing to his thread I will surely back off however :)

I'm not even talking about fighting engine or art direction or anything yet. 1st we need to see if there is enough interest and if Felo approves of this action. Then we can get into huge ass arguments about mechanics and it'll be great!!!
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Niitris on March 21, 2014, 04:02:15 pm
I'm good with coding and planning. I'm a below average sprite artist, but I do study sprites and animation a ton.

I remember wanting to make my own Street Fighter project, but like most ideas I didn't like the concept and buried it.
Give me 2-3 characters to code and I can make things happen.

Hopefully this takes off, sounds like a swell idea.
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: ExShadow on March 21, 2014, 04:13:19 pm
My question is why does it have to be Street Fighter? 

Just curious
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Titiln on March 21, 2014, 04:17:05 pm
because felo thinks there's no good sf fullgame for mugen
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: ExShadow on March 21, 2014, 04:21:11 pm
Oh I see
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Alex Sinigaglia on March 21, 2014, 05:17:28 pm
I can code a bit and sprite a bit. And give feedback.

I never fully showed my potential in the coding department, but there might be a chance for me.
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Caddie on March 21, 2014, 06:08:29 pm
FeLo_Llop said, March 19, 2014, 12:13:32 am
There's not a DECENT SF game done in the mugen community(by the moment).

Hey fuck you pal (http://sf2nes.smeenet.org), and every one of you who didn't point out SF2Nes! >:(
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Just No Point on March 21, 2014, 07:23:23 pm
Sorry Caddie. Most users here now are too young to remember what a NES even is!

Though that does give me an idea for a new sticky to hopefully give a little bit more exposure to things such as that.
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: FeLo_Llop on March 21, 2014, 10:06:45 pm
Thanks everyone for the replies :D!!

First of all, JnP: I don't bother for that, so don't worry :)!
Now...I wouldn't talk about "director", because everyone here can contribute in one way or another, so I wouldn't be tell that word.

In any case, I can't be director, because I only know to sprite(that's what I can contribute here. Nothing more). I tried coding in the past and the result was...chaotic? no, next step of chaos D:!!

My micro idea is making a beta with 2 chars from each saga+ Boss, for example:
- SF1: Ryu - Eagle----Sagat. I suggest using Armentis' Ryu because has some quite awesome news from both SF3 and CvS. And also SF4 stand. Also, a good colour separtion for him could be used for something more(secret!!)
- SFZ: Rose - Sakura?----Who? this Dictator is way too different from his SF2 counterpart. Maybe no one. Or maybe Ingrid?
- SF2: Chun Li - Guile----Dictator.
- SF4: C. Viper - Gouken-----Seth. Maybe fixing him a bit from Chucho's(??) version plus a "cvs" palete would do the cut.
- SF3: Alex - Dudley -----Gill.  Alex was converted into something a la cvs by Zero de Armentis and Dudley was awesomely converted by Drex.

This make a total of 14(15 if we choose Ingrid) playable characters, what's nice for a beta. Also, these bunch has some differences: there are shotos, there are charging like characters, and there are totally freaks there(Seth, no one loves you). So, as there are those types, it could be useful for making something like a template for future coding, tweaking here and there(I know it's maybe a crazyness and a total nonsense by my part. I know) for other characters who follows that structure.

About coders...I know that @Nestor and MAYBE @MGMURROW could be interested. I spoke with Nestor and he seems to be pretty interested.

I will reply more focused later, I have something to do now, so...I'll take my time later replying one by one.

Thanks for your time, have a nice day!!
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Chazzanova on March 22, 2014, 01:05:34 am
FeLo_Llop said, March 21, 2014, 10:06:45 pm
- SFZ: Rose - Sakura?----Who? this Dictator is way too different from his SF2 counterpart. Maybe no one. Or maybe Ingrid?

Maybe instead of thinking of a boss-tier character, you could select a character from each game. Rose from SFZ, Sakura from SFZ2, and Mika/Karin from SFZ3.

Also, I think that you could add some FF characters to the list you've done so far. Cody or Guy, maybe.
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Just No Point on March 22, 2014, 02:32:05 am
Well if Nestor and/or MGMURROW are interested that would give plenty of potential coders. So before we worry about roster let's figure out the system.

I'll start from SF2 because SF1 didn't introduce anything that could make the system unique, unless super hard motions are what we want.

I'll assume we'll stick with link combos, 2 in ones, buffering, etc The only game to really remove link combos was SFA1 where it had chains. I don't see this game needing that (even though it's my fav system =p)

More universal
reversal
dizzy
Juggle

SSF2T (http://wiki.shoryuken.com/Super_Street_Fighter_2_Turbo#Game_Mechanics)
1 stock super bar
1 super move per character
1 tick throws used with a single strong attack button
Throw Escape
Throw Tech (where you take half damage and land on your feet)
randomness (http://sonichurricane.com/articles/sf2randomness.html)

SFA3 I'm combining isms
3 stock super bar
lvl1, 2, 3 super moves
Multiple supers
air recovery
roll recovery
SFA3 juggle system
Hold back for all close range attacks
Custom Combo
2 Punches or 2 Kicks to throw
throw start up animation and miss animation
Throw Escape
Throw Tech (where you take half damage and land on your feet)
Alpha Counter
Guard Meter/Guard Crush
Air Blocking
start for taunt
decrease damage by pressing buttons/directions
timing guard (http://meh.brpxqzme.net/himff/parry.html)
Reduced damage on projectiles the further they travel

SF3TS (http://wiki.shoryuken.com/Street_Fighter_3:_3rd_Strike#Game_Mechanics)
Variant stock super bar (depended on character/super selected)
Had to chose from 1 of 3 supers
EX moves
LP + LK for throw
MP + MK for leap attack
HP + HK for taunt
Parry
red parry
Blocking only works while away is held even after combo starts
Stun Meter
Dash
throw start up animation and miss animation
Throw Escape
Super Jump
Quick Stand

USF4
1 stock super bar split in 4 parts
EX moves
Select from one of 2 Ultras
1 super
Ultra Bar
LP + LK  for throw
MP + MK for Focus
HP + HK for taunt
(I forget the buttons) for red focus
Armor Moves
1 tick throws
throw miss  animation
Throw Escape
Armor breaker moves
Dash
Slow get up
fast get up


I think that about covers it. Let me know if there is anything I missed or that should be noted. Then we can start discussing which systems from what games to implement.
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Iced on March 22, 2014, 02:43:23 am
If you need me for anything, im game.
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: A$AP Buckus on March 22, 2014, 03:01:53 am
It's starting to sound like Lost Avenger's Street Fighter X game.
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: ShinZankuro on March 22, 2014, 03:04:44 am
Just No Point.


Interesting concept!

Will be nice to design the ISM's according the game era.
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Just No Point on March 22, 2014, 03:08:15 am
These are not for isms. We'll decide on a system based on things from all the games mentioned here.

A$AP Buckus said, March 22, 2014, 03:01:53 am
It's starting to sound like Lost Avenger's Street Fighter X game.

I need to look into the similarities. Could be mutual assistance here.
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Not Bastard Renzo F on March 22, 2014, 03:48:27 am
What about the EX Series? The Guard Break Mechanic is similar to a Focus Attack, but works different since you need a bar to perform it, plus it's not invincible.
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Niitris on March 22, 2014, 04:07:45 am
Alpha 3 also had this odd nuance where the further a projectile hit the less damage it did, but considering how pretty much no one liked that concept it probably isn't an important oversight. :P
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Not Bastard Renzo F on March 22, 2014, 05:18:51 am
Similar to Darkstalkers proj durability/cancelling... maybe we can borrow that just to prove it can be done.
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Just No Point on March 22, 2014, 05:22:52 am
Renzo F said, March 22, 2014, 03:48:27 am
What about the EX Series? The Guard Break Mechanic is similar to a Focus Attack, but works different since you need a bar to perform it, plus it's not invincible.
I didn't think about the ex series since it isn't legit. But as a street fighter tribute that will encompass the ex series it won't hurt to add it. Can you list the mechanics for that game? I'm least familiar with it.

Niitris said, March 22, 2014, 04:07:45 am
Alpha 3 also had this odd nuance where the further a projectile hit the less damage it did, but considering how pretty much no one liked that concept it probably isn't an important oversight. :P

I hated that too! But yeah, kind of forgot about it.
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Not Bastard Renzo F on March 22, 2014, 06:54:13 am
What do you mean by "it isn't legit"? :D

The mechanics are pretty simple by today standards:

Super cancel (IIRC you can even cancel super into super)
Guard Break (unblockable attack, costs one super bar)
Excel (Similar to custom combos in SFA2)
Everyone has a cinematic level 3 super

At least this is valid for EX 2. Never played EX 3.
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Balthazar on March 22, 2014, 09:14:32 am
EX3 Had things called (I think) Momentary Combos, it allowed you to chain special moves into eachother (ex. A Hadouken into another Hadouken, or into a Shoryuken). It was not as broken as it was in SF:The Movie (Arcade version) (though THAT'S a game we should make an effort to avoid similarities with. The same goes for EX3 by the way, that game was a disaster. EX2+ all the way (though I am not a big fan of the overly goofyness of some of the Lv3 Meteor Combos some characters had, like Pullum's hypnotizing dancing one. Screw those).

And yeah I agree we should review all system mechanics listed, and choose the best/most interesting ones. There shouldn't be Isms, it's a lot more work and to me Isms feel like 'oh we couldn't decide/kill our darlings, so here, choose whatever you want, we got everything'.

Here's my suggestions, combining elements from nearly every series;

-NO dashing.
-dodging from CvS
-air/ground recovery after knockdown (though more cinematic then the standard 'flips and floats'.
-hold back for all close range attacks.
-SFA3 juggle system
-throw attempt/whiff animation, done by fwd/bwd+2P / 2K
-safe fall/throw escape/throw recovery).
-Guard meter/guard crush.
-Stun meter.
-!NEW!-throw counter (after succesfully performing a safe fall/throw escaqe, come right back into p2's face and counter).
-SFA's Zero Counter (costs 1 bar).
-SFA2's Custom Combo (costs 1 bar, like EX's Excel Combo. No 2 bar/3 bar version).
-SFEX's Guard Break (slow, unblockable attack costs 1 bar).
-EX Specials
-Multiple Super Combos for each character, but only 1 available ingame due to a selection (similar to SF3).


Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Not Bastard Renzo F on March 22, 2014, 11:10:49 am
I'm not sure about removing dash. The dash is a risk/reward kind of movement option (since you can't cancel it), its universal, but unique on its own for each char (examples: Bison's Kara Dash, Makoto Lenghty dash). And the backdash is some sort of defensive maneuver and we are removing an option against okizeme.

The rest seems fine to me.
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Just No Point on March 22, 2014, 11:17:40 am
Dodging was only in cvs? If so I don't think it'd fit either. It's roots are from snk. Not a sf game
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Bad News GBK on March 22, 2014, 11:23:28 am
How about a very basic SF II similar gameplay at the start and a big focus on balancing the characters out so it is not like the most mugen games where some characters are uber-strong?



Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Just No Point on March 22, 2014, 11:31:19 am
Because it'd be easier to tweak characters to be balanced in a universal system than it would to try and balance them with the intent to add more mechanics later.

Mechanics are what dictate how characters play. Not characters dictating the mechanics.
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Niitris on March 22, 2014, 11:33:01 am
I guess it all depends on what the gameplay direction would be, but having no dashing would feel really restrictive. Every game (even Street Fighter, the example of simplicity in fighting games) has now embraced dashing; it'd feel wrong to not have it.

As for Alpha counters, I believe CvS2 style would be best. One thing that a good number of people didn't like were that Alpha Counters were too strong across the entire Alpha series (since it discouraged block-string pressure). CvS2 took KoF's version (Emergency Attack) and made a nice compromise.
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: FeLo_Llop on March 22, 2014, 11:42:55 am
It seems no one read this :P :

Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

Putting -ISMs would be the best  IMHO, so any player could be confortable with any character and etc. I'm aware that it would be extra-coding and not always easy to do. I know...OR making a common system but changing executions. For example, Leap Attack could go from MP+MK to LP+LK, leaving Focus as it is in SF4. Blocking and SFZ's "parry/block" could be merged in one, since their properties are similar. Well, not that simlar. Blocking allows you to be able performing a nice combo from it while SFZ's "block" only allows you a hard hit.
- SFZ:
(http://i41.tinypic.com/34rtxfd.gif) (yeah, Counter Attack)

Also, myyy O_O there are more replies than expcted and I'm short of time D:!! I'll reply later. Promise.

Also, for teasing...who's portrait gotta be next?
(http://i62.tinypic.com/2sbmyhi.png)

Juri and/or Decapre can't since they haven't been done in mugen(at least not THAT Decapre), so...who?

Hav a nice day!
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Alex Sinigaglia on March 22, 2014, 11:49:52 am
FeLo_Llop said, March 22, 2014, 11:42:55 am
Juri and/or Decapre can't since they haven't been done in mugen(at least not THAT Decapre), so...who?
C. Viper maybe?
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Lost_Avenger on March 22, 2014, 11:50:19 am
I don't feel like reading the full topic(I've very tired), but I suggest this before doing a full game:
-start with a small roster and work up to more later. You don't want to get half way and your project die near the home stretch due to the lack of drive
-don't add extra chains/target combos. SFXTekken sucked. Don't repeat the awkward feel
-don't water down the system. Keep it simple or it will end up being the broken unplayable mess of MX
-Once you have a system, stick with it. Do what you want to do and go from there. Don't add features to get people interested/happy.Release one or two characters to build hype
-Don't try to do the whole roster at the same time. Stick with one or two characters and finish them first. You'll get burned out otherwise
-Go for diversity for your roster. Don't add character x because someone asks. Possibly going for characters that fill "roles(grappler, shoto, charger, etc).

Etc. good luck
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Gladiacloud on March 22, 2014, 12:04:12 pm
FeLo_Llop said, March 20, 2014, 12:11:39 am
By the moment, not putting "Not-done" characters(Joe, Geki, Rufus, etc).

About Geki... Chuchouryu has made some good Geki's sprites in CVS style.

FeLo_Llop said, March 22, 2014, 11:42:55 am

Also, for teasing...who's portrait gotta be next?
(http://i62.tinypic.com/2sbmyhi.png)


I would like to see a Street Fighter Ex's character.
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Alex Sinigaglia on March 22, 2014, 01:01:34 pm
I think he meant to ask which one of those in the image he is going to make next.
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Gladiacloud on March 22, 2014, 01:39:32 pm
I know. I would like to see a Street Fighter EX character between these portraits ;)
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: FeLo_Llop on March 22, 2014, 07:01:14 pm
As promised, personal replies:

- @Balthazar: it's very useful what yuo told about the leap attack. But, that could interfere with down focus' timing. That's why capcom changed it in 3rd strike. Some of the mechanic could be scrapped, if keeping a single gameplay. If we decide to go with -ISMs, they can be kept, so, anything would not interfere. Also, I would not speak about 10 characters/saga, since that would be a lot of workload. For the beta, I ould just say 2 per saga+a a boss. Also, some of you spoke about including SFEX characters. They're not part of SF canon, so they, in the begining would not have a place. UNLESS being "guest" characters. This could be like, in the begining, a dreammatch. We don't really need to put a background story, but that's always nice. I thought of something that could explain why there are dead characters and alternative characters(Killer Bee, E. Shotos, etc), but that better be kept in a box 'till the needed day.
Also, it seems we coincide about editing OR making a full sprite since its begining. It's always a bit confuse trying to see every wrong detail in a previous sprite.----Also, included your Throw Counter in the thing in the spoiler :P. That's UBBERlovely.

- @Renzo: That list of mechanics is pretty nice! :D! It resumes everything pretty good. Now that I think about it, are these options compatible? I mean, if you have bloocking, you can't have parry/etc. If deciding a single gameplay instead of an -ISM system, some characters can have X and others, Y. This could be used for, for exemple, differenciating the shotos: Ryu could use Blocking, while Ken a Parry. Also, your skills are pretty good. I still remember having fun with your pocket characters and Gen(even incomplete). Also, the Guard Break from SFEX sounds pretty interesting, specially for turtles that keep themselves in a corner and whatever :P

- @Just No Point: Making this as a way to learn coding, spriting, whatever, seems very good to me. I, personally, think that just few of the new generation mugeners are interested in creating, mostly because they can see this as very abstract(me, for example...I tried and tried learning coding but...I'm VERY clumsy for learning it T_T). I would suggest, however, making "basic standar" character coding, I mean, a template: shotos could share a common base, "charging type" with charging type, etc. This could make an easier way to do things and coding similar characters(ehem, ryu, ken. sakura, etc) would just need tweaks from the original coding. Substituting, for example, Blocking for Parry, or Just Defense. Or making an empty of this stuff and then just adding these features, leaving a line(in an etc colour, for those interested in coding) in the place where this should be coded. It's a more visual way to know WHERE to put things. Also, don't worry. I don't feel being a director or else. This could be a community project where everyone contributes, so we can complement each other, no one is superior to others. I can sprite, making sheets and/ or completing characters, also making quite CRAZY colour separations (exemple in the Spoiler) that could make someone looking as another character, or whatever.
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty
About SF1 characters, what if...we center them into a combo like characters? Something a la Tekken, long combos that doesn't need to be very powerful, but not that weak. And, characters from this game(or -ISM) could have a limit of, for example, 5 projectles(hadokens), because that attack was so damm powerful in that game. I still remember and hate Ryu's and Sagat's...half of lifebar? Please...

- @Bad News GBK: That's awesome!! I have some ideas for intros//endings, but unfortunately, I'm not that good. I thouht making rough sketches, scan them and translating them into pixels(as the portraits I put)

- @Niitris: That's a good new :D! Which characters do you like? I'm preparing some CS ready for the project. Also, I agree with you about keeping the dash :D

- @ExShadow: Because of what Titiln said :P. There's quite a lot of awesome KoFs(Z, Wing, etc), but seems SF is a bit broken hearted of its fans :(

- @Caddie: my apologizes. You're right, I totally missed that jewel.

- @Alex Sinigaglia: Everyone's welcome :)

- Chazzanova: You're totally right. I missed the FF characters. It seems they're part of the real SF canon after all.

- @Iced: Oobrigado! I guess I know who's your choice ;)!

- Lost_Avenger: That was said :P

I guess it's everything. Huu!! I'm tired!!
 
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Bastard Mami on March 22, 2014, 07:04:24 pm
Lost_Avenger said, March 22, 2014, 11:50:19 am
-don't add extra chains/target combos. SFXTekken sucked. Don't repeat the awkward feel

chains re pretty bad, yeah, but target combos are good aslong as they are done like sf3.
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Bad News GBK on March 22, 2014, 07:14:08 pm
@ FeLo

I am going to keep an eye on this thread. As soon as you or everyone else "in charge" have ideas about an intro and also endings for characters, i can share the info on dA and see if there are artists who are interested. And i bet there will be some.

Same counts for character select screen /vs screen portraits ..maybe background images for the screenpack as well.

ps: would love to see a SFEX character as well. ..maybe one of the "underdogs" like Darun or Jack?
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Lost_Avenger on March 23, 2014, 04:15:44 am
I'm ok with target combos, but most "chains" aren't coded right. You usually end up with just lp-mp-hp when you should be able to chain into kicks too. It feels awkward and lazy to me. Ibuki and Dudley are examples of lots of tcs done right.
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: FeLo_Llop on March 23, 2014, 04:48:20 pm
I would like to say that the perfect chain IMHO is the tekken style. It may not allow SUPERlong combos, but at least gives people the chance to perfrom a difficult combo from an easy start..

That said, Viper's portrait:
(http://i62.tinypic.com/r2uqmb.png)

And Bonus. Sketchy roster. There's a lot of slots, I know. Just a placeholder(don't panic!)

(http://i59.tinypic.com/2ib11xh.png)

Still lacks a background, letters for names, etc, etc...I thought keeping the sprite without NOT mirroring in both sides, so we can put the flag, and few stuff, but this is optional :/.

Have a nice day!!
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: City_Hunter on March 23, 2014, 04:50:01 pm
looks like a good start and the flag would definitly be a nice addition
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Caddie on March 23, 2014, 09:31:43 pm
Looks fantastic. The design choice is stylish yet simple, and the placement of everything is perfect so far. And of course the portraits are nicely done.
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Just No Point on March 24, 2014, 01:43:01 am
FeLo_Llop said, March 22, 2014, 11:42:55 am
It seems no one read this :P :

Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

Putting -ISMs would be the best  IMHO, so any player could be confortable with any character and etc. I'm aware that it would be extra-coding and not always easy to do. I know...OR making a common system but changing executions. For example, Leap Attack could go from MP+MK to LP+LK, leaving Focus as it is in SF4. Blocking and SFZ's "parry/block" could be merged in one, since their properties are similar. Well, not that simlar. Blocking allows you to be able performing a nice combo from it while SFZ's "block" only allows you a hard hit.
- SFZ:

I've read the spoiler :P
Again, I don't want to step on your toes here but you'll have to think of me as the "budget". We have to keep this project simplistic if we want it to be an easy to join in community project. Not to mention grooves would be impossible to balance where 1 solid system would be a lot easier.

So I want to ask if possible for a compromise. That's a big part of a community project. How about we solidify 1 system? We develop the characters with the mechanics we decide in mind. Many of the mechanics that get cut could be coded as a var in a common cns. So those mechanics would only need to be coded once and activated with a var in a separate config cns. Basically if you wanted the other mechanics you turn them on in the config file like Rajaa did with Necro.
Now, for convenience to the project the mechanic has to be a universal mechanic that does not need character or move specific values.

It wouldn't be ISMs. But it would allow you to create your own ISM/system if you wished. Would this be acceptable to you?
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: [Judas] on March 24, 2014, 01:24:43 pm
One way to approach the boat load of -ISM type stuff would be character by character. It sounds ludicrous and MUGEN-tastic. but hear me out. Try narrowing down those options to a generalized system-wide list, then adding certain ones to characters in a way similar to Capcom vs. the World's special technique button. Ryu might get a focus attack (dat wind punch), while Ken might get pseudo-chains in the form of a larger selection of target combos. Rose and Yun could get V-ism combos in the form of Soul Illusion and Genei Jin, while Bison's Psycho Crusher could function like SFxT's chargeable super moves. Combo breakers for Karin and Gouken by modifying the uses of their counter attacks, A-ism/X-ism/SF4 Ultra supers by character to accent their playstyle (lots of balancing and rebalancing to make it work, if it's even possible), leap attacks for characters without a lot of specials that rely more on command techniques (looking at you, Guile), et cetera. It would take a lot of trial and error to get it right, though. Might be a dumb idea. I'unno.
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Lost_Avenger on March 24, 2014, 01:40:27 pm
That would require lots of balancing and wouldn't be worth the effort. A config file or set system is better imo. Or isms lol. A, 3, and 4. You can have your focus attack and your universal overhead too. Though A might get screwed as the only one that had air guarding :p
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: FeLo_Llop on March 24, 2014, 05:49:13 pm
Yes...keeping things as simple as possible is the best choice. Let's remember two examples from previous games:

- SF2 had a standar gameplay with no one doing "crazy" stuff, or things from other g...what? Claw had an evasive movement, a la KoF.
- SFZ had those -ISMs and awesome gameplay options, but no one had an speciffic reversal mov...Karin. Karin was able to "reversal" rival's attacks.

So, a choice(if decided by us all, etc) is having chars with Focus Attack, others with reversals, chain combos, etc...Not necessary a total revamping or superbalancing IMHO, f someone can perform a (long) chain combo, just put his/her attacks a bit weaker. Those who perform focus, just add an invencivility during this movement, because of the amount of time to prepare it. If X has block, don't allow an evasive maneuver.

I think, this way every character would look more unique and can change the way of playing for some clones, converting them into something more of their own. See Tekken. Even Devil Jin and Kazuya has a similar moveset, D. Jin is able to do a reversal movement while Kazuya not. Miharu's attacks lacks the fluidity of Xiaoyu's, but in the other hand she's not THAT opened to reversals; etc.

Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: ink on March 24, 2014, 06:33:09 pm
I could helping out with this project some. I don't have tons of time but I am sure I can contribute some where.
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: SlenderMan on March 25, 2014, 04:11:26 am
good looking stuff man :) very well done as always.
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Just No Point on March 25, 2014, 09:19:24 pm
Adding a mechanic to a character that needs a buff wouldn't be ruled out. In SFA3 Gen and Guy still have chain combos. In SVC Hugo has a parry. SF4 Ibuki and Viper have super jumps. It's not unheard of. But those will still need to be added with thought to the character's balance. Not to meet a quota making sure all mechanics are implemented in one way or another.

Back onto the mechanics

Spoiler: Balthazar's suggestion (click to see content)
Okay here are my concerns/feedback for this.
NO dash? Dash is in the latest 2 SF games. It really adds a nice dynamic to the game. Giving another option to get in closer and making the game a bit faster paced.
Sidestep hasn't been in any SF game unless we want to say it comes from SF EX :P
SFA3 Air Juggle would probably not work well without air guarding.
Picking 1 super from 3 would probably need something else like having different numbers of bars/different lengths like in SF3. Otherwise it'll be like in SF4 and for the most part people just pick the better more practical super.

Here is my idea for the system. This does not over rule your ideas. It's just to move discussion. I'll fold real fast if you press me on any mechanics =p
(This will be based more on your suggestions)

-dashing.
-air/ground recovery after knockdown (though more cinematic then the standard 'flips and floats'.
-hold back for all close range attacks.
-SFA3 juggle system
-air blocking
-throw attempt/whiff animation, done by fwd/bwd+2P / 2K or LP+LK (config file potential)
-safe fall/throw escape/throw recovery).
-Guard meter/guard crush.
-Stun meter.
-!NEW!-throw counter (after succesfully performing a safe fall/throw escaqe, come right back into p2's face and counter).
-SFA's Zero Counter (costs 1 bar).
-SFA2's Custom Combo (costs 1 bar, like EX's Excel Combo. No 2 bar/3 bar version). Length of time could change depending on super selected as well MP+MK
-SFEX's Guard Break (slow, unblockable attack costs 1 bar).
-EX Specials
-Multiple Super Combos for each character, but only 1 available ingame due to a selection (similar to SF3) different supers would allow more stock and/or different length super bars
-HP + HK for taunt
-start for movelist/pause
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Balthazar on March 25, 2014, 09:30:10 pm
Sounds pretty good to me, though with dodging/evading, I kinda ment the SNK mechanic. SF EX didn't have any sort of dodging as far as I can recall :P
I put it in so more close-quarter, dodging and countering fighting would be promoted. Though parrying is extremely cool too.
I initially left the dashing out to go back to basics a little, but do agree it's a cool feature that should probably be included.

The air/ground recoveries being more cinematic would also contribute to things looking just slightly more realistic/involved, with characters doing unique things like twisting their bodies, rolling, direct-counter-attacking, what have you. Anything to do away with the standard air flip and get it over with.
The rest of the list I agree with, how about other people? What do you think?

Again, I'm a front-runner of thinking out a general system (though there can still be character-specific differences), rather then having Isms, Isms are dumb.
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Just No Point on March 25, 2014, 09:33:05 pm
Didn't SF EX have side step? Or am I remembering wrong? 3D plane side stepping to be clear.
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Alex Sinigaglia on March 25, 2014, 09:35:15 pm
I like JNP's list, I would just add the SF3 parry.

I didn't know Hugo in SvC had a parry.
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Just No Point on March 25, 2014, 09:42:16 pm
Balthazar said, March 25, 2014, 09:30:10 pm
Again, I'm a front-runner of thinking out a general system (though there can still be character-specific differences), rather then having Isms, Isms are dumb.
I'm with you on this. I like isms, but it's not practical for the scope of the project. Knowing 1 set general system will make it easier to balance the characters accordingly. For simple tweaks like adding a parry or disabling airblock an optional config file can be made. But in developing the characters this potential will not be used for their movesets, balance, and meta games

Alex Sinigaglia said, March 25, 2014, 09:35:15 pm
I like JNP's list, I would just add the SF3 parry.

I didn't know Hugo in SvC had a parry.
I don't really like the parry mechanic as it takes away characters long range fighting potential. Would be easy to add with a config file though. And/or character specific
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Balthazar on March 25, 2014, 09:51:21 pm
Just No Point said, March 25, 2014, 09:33:05 pm
Didn't SF EX have side step? Or am I remembering wrong? 3D plane side stepping to be clear.
No, it didn't have it. And it wouldn't be feasable in a 2D mugen game anyway :P

For Parrying, a config could be nice. Maybe. Having a big influencal thing like parrying be character-specific however would kind of go against the idea of having a fullgame, it'd feel too much like a compilation imo. The whole point of making a fullgame is having the characters share the same style and system.
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Just No Point on March 25, 2014, 10:14:18 pm
I wasn't a big SF EX player. Only EX1 on PS1 :P A 3D side step would have to be adapted and altered for 2D but that's mute since it didn't have it.

A character specific parry could be nerfed/edited as well. Hugo's parry was towards plus 2P for high and down plus 2k for low. It was a special attack as such. That's not saying we HAVE to implement a parry to someone. That will be dealt with on an individual basis. It would probably be more fun to make a unique move for x character instead of give a parry if we wish to buff someone with a new move.
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Not Bastard Renzo F on March 25, 2014, 10:19:48 pm
A question and a wild idea: Are we aiming for "pure" system mechanics? Or the idea of mixing or changing how they work is plausible?

I was thinking if we come up with a mix of some mechanics, like parry + focus. Parry in the way you perform it, how many hits you can stop but adding an extra element to it, like gray life for every attack parried, so it's a little more risky if you fail parrying a complete string.

Just trying to think out of the box; might be fun.
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Just No Point on March 25, 2014, 10:24:54 pm
That's completely possible. Me and Balthazar's list is still a WIP and can easily be altered. I think the only thing we need to stay within a guideline on is to make sure they are based on SF mechanics. This project feels kind of like a big community tribute to SF as a whole. Adding SNK specific things would feel off. Mixing, combining, and tweaking current SF mechanics is a smart evolution of this project. Along with new mechanics like the attacking get up attack Balth expressed.

Also to note. The stuff we allow in the config file should be looked at as CVS2's groove create. Or SF3's extra mechanics options. Just extra fun. The core game will not use them but you can turn them on/off as an option.
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Not Bastard Renzo F on March 25, 2014, 10:35:36 pm
I think we might decide if we are only counting the system mechanics from SF "canon" games, because CVS has a lot of stuff not present in other games, like running or dodging (obviously SNK Grooves are ruled out, but Capcom grooves also have stuff from KOF and such). My stance is to rule out them.
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Just No Point on March 25, 2014, 10:44:32 pm
Yeah. I don't see an issue with SF EX mechanics either. Even if it's not canon.

Basically from SF1, all versions of 2, 3, SFA, SF4, and EX
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Not Bastard Renzo F on March 25, 2014, 10:48:38 pm
Now that you mention SF1, we should definitely implement pressure-sensitive attacks  :rolleyes5:
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Just No Point on March 25, 2014, 11:10:26 pm
I think once we finally settle on a system we should take an already made character from POTS, JMM, or someone like that. Strip them of their mechanics and put these mechanics in their place as a quick test run.  So we can see if we actually like all the systems we vomited into this blender! :D
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Alex Sinigaglia on March 26, 2014, 02:34:15 pm
Can we discuss about intro/win/lose poses?

I like the SvC way of making everyone interact with everyone; intro pose, dialogue, fight. But there could be another dialogue when you win, à la (<-correct me if I'm wrong) SF3.
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: FeLo_Llop on March 26, 2014, 05:36:39 pm
- Ink: There's not enough icon for what I feel right now, so :3 !!!!

- JnP & Balthazar & Renzo: Sounds pretty good. I'd say: keep the dash here, since there has been like in...2 titles now. It's a bit risky keeping this out, since jumping for evading a hadoken or tiger shot is kinda...boring. I would also say that, aside dashing, putting an evasive dash(as in SFxT) OR something like a Roll? Some characters can evade the projectiles with certain movements(thanks to the timing) as Cammy or Claw. Zangief can destroy projectiles with that big-blue-BEAR-hand he has. So, the rolling can take the place of the SFEX sidestep...as a way to: a) making the combat something more dinamic or ; b) an evasive manneuver against projectiles. Also, I think that putting for example BLOCK for Ryu and Parry(whatever) for Ken, and etc, could make some quite differences between similar characters. Ryu is more(canon wise) focused, strategic fighter than Ken, who's more dinamic...

- Alex S.: I think the same as you, but maybe we have to think about the gameplay before thinking on that. Also, I'm not sure how many "special vs" are allowed in mugen.

By the way: Next portrait is Guy's. Also, mixed two Urien's artworks for hims. Wasn't happy with Gill's artwork so I had to look for a fitting pose. I hate bodybuilders. You can find a lot of HORRIBLE things google-ing them T___T!!!

Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: MS_Todd on March 26, 2014, 08:29:19 pm
First of all; great idea! Now i have some notes related to i read from the previous posts;

- No charging. I hate that so i'm glad to hear you don't gonna use it.
- I was thinking about the bosses matches, and i think Shin Akuma must be the final boss representing SFII/SSFIIT, and Shin Bison as the final boss representing the Alpha series, so you have the most powerful incarnation of those final bosses.
- the idea of a inmediate wake up from throw moves sounds nice but i think should be depending of wich weak or strong kind of grapple move is.
- EX series chars, gonna participate?
-  A Rainbow Mika portrait? :3

That's all for now. I'll an eye on this because it sounds pretty awesome.
Greetings!
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Just No Point on March 27, 2014, 03:59:51 pm
All right. Looks like we need to get something moving on this. Once some sort of actual progress is made we should get more feedback and assistance (in theory :P)

- No charging. I hate that so i'm glad to hear you don't gonna use it.
What sort of charging do you mean? Like KOF power charging? Charge characters like Guile will still be the same.

- I was thinking about the bosses matches, and i think Shin Akuma must be the final boss representing SFII/SSFIIT, and Shin Bison as the final boss representing the Alpha series, so you have the most powerful incarnation of those final bosses.
Yeah if we do a multitude of bosses as you make your way through the game I agree.

Boss order would be fight some SF1 character then Sagat
 Fight SFA characters then fight Bison
 fight some SF2 characters then Balrog, Vega, Sagat, Bison, Akuma
fight SF4 characters then Seth
fight SF3 characters then Gill
afterwards maybe Pandora

- the idea of a inmediate wake up from throw moves sounds nice but i think should be depending of wich weak or strong kind of grapple move is.
Well we'll be using the 2 button press input for throws. 2P, 2K, and/or LP + LK so it'll be hard to distinguish a weak throw from a strong throw

- EX series chars, gonna participate?
Yes, hopefully if this project gains momentum

So are we going to start with Ryu? If so let's figure out which Ryu should be reconstructed into the mechanics we've listed. Once we get the mechanics solidified it'll be easier to switch and alter mechanics as we decide how it should truly play.

@Renzo F:
@Niitris:
@Alex Sinigaglia:
 are you up for coding this 1st character just for mechanics testing purposes? I will get on it if you don't wish to do so. Right now I'm just trying to keep momentum by making sure the project is moving =p It's easy to talk and make wish lists. Someone has to do the work though.

Do you guys have a chat option and/or google drive? We should add each other to spread the workload. Once something looks like it might really come from this I'll give it it's own full game board to help us organize our tasks and thoughts better as well.
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Not Bastard Renzo F on March 27, 2014, 04:06:34 pm
Sure, I would love to make a return to coding. I'll just make a warning right now: I'm going on vacation for two weeks so I won't be so active on the forum.

I have a Gmail account, I'll send the details via PM.
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Just No Point on March 27, 2014, 04:16:55 pm
That's fine. We can still figure out who we want to use. I haven't looked off hand but is there a CVS Ryu with color separation? I know JMM has a Ken with one.

If we use POTS's Ryu his sff and air will need to be fixed as the axis is off and there was no CLSN viewer for SF games back then. Though POTS probably got them pretty close with his research.

What other CVS Ryus should we possibly use?

We should also start putting together the many pieces of coding for the mechanics. I believe most of these have been given out in the forum. I'll hunt them up and we can make sure they are the most accurate version for what we wish to do.
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: MS_Todd on March 27, 2014, 04:17:15 pm
Just No Point said, March 27, 2014, 03:59:51 pm

- No charging. I hate that so i'm glad to hear you don't gonna use it.
What sort of charging do you mean? Like KOF power charging? Charge characters like Guile will still be the same.

- the idea of a inmediate wake up from throw moves sounds nice but i think should be depending of wich weak or strong kind of grapple move is.
Well we'll be using the 2 button press input for throws. 2P, 2K, and/or LP + LK so it'll be hard to distinguish a weak throw from a strong throw

First of all, thanks you for your answers.

- I mean like KOF power charging. In my opinion it cut the speed and the emotion of the match, and also leaves without any defense against rival's attack.

- So, for example, after a Zangief applies an Atomic Buster (Final/Ultimate) the rival character would wake up inmediatly? :/

Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Just No Point on March 27, 2014, 04:19:28 pm
Oh, I see. No. I don't see us allowing the get up attack after a special or super throw. Just the basic throws. If they could be used against special throws it'd put those throw characters at a huge disadvantage IMO
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Alex Sinigaglia on March 27, 2014, 05:11:36 pm
I would really like to join in this project, but with chat option what do you mean? I'm also not registered in Google +, but I'm very active here so there's that.
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Balthazar on March 27, 2014, 05:48:29 pm
Good job on keeping things moving :)
Ryu is probably the template character of choice, yeah.
Also, what style of fx/sfx are we thinking of? Most likely CvS2 hitsparks and sounds? Though I would actually suggest looking for something fresh as to make them not look like your typical Pots/Jmorphman characters. They need to stand out.
Maybe even like some flashy/filtered versions of classic SF2 effects?

Also. Super Recovery. Yeah, let that sink in of a while. Basicly it might be cool to have a super version of a fall recovery/counter move for each character. Let's say, Ryu gets Shoryuken'd, he falls through the air. You imput your Super Recovery.
Boom. Ryu, upon touching the ground, rolls forward and towards the opponent and BAM whips out a rising spin kick. If it connects, he goes into a powerful Tatsumaki. Basicly, this:
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty
With these (as well as the throw recoveries/counters) we can get some really unique stand-out moves for each character, that can have different values and properties, but still fall within the same general system.
The command could be down+2P when you have a superbar?

Lastly I was initially going to vote against EX-specials, but some characters really need them due to having few specials to begin with.
Though we could make an effort of making sure every EX special really adds something, and is not just a more hits-more powerful version of the bare Special (EX Tatsumaki being the Shinkuu Tatsumaki that stays in place and hits on both sides of Ryu, thats a good one).
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: FeLo_Llop on March 27, 2014, 05:51:46 pm
I'm about to go(a class), so a suggestion...THIS Ryu:

http://armentis.deviantart.com/art/ryu-sheet-343826663


It was sprited by Armentis from SF3. There are some things that need fixes, and he also told me that sometimes, there are some belts which doesn't share the same colour.

I also recommend visiting his DA, where he has more sheets:

http://armentis.deviantart.com/gallery/36250405

(don't use that Sagat!! We can use Chuchoryu's+Chamat's just downgrading the colour count!)

EDIT: Once fixed Ryu's belt thing, making a CS from there is super-easy
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Balthazar on March 27, 2014, 05:54:47 pm
Why not use his Sagat? I think it looks pretty sexy and would probably fit better then a downgraded SF3 Sagat.
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Just No Point on March 27, 2014, 06:03:06 pm
Aside for there being more work to do with these in aligning if there are a lot of missing animations we'll really need you spriters more than ever! But if you're up for it I don't mind. Maybe after the sff is finished we can get someone to color separate?

For the beta to test the mechanics we still want to use POTS Ryu. It won't be final but we really need something to make sure we like what we have and Ryu's a good choice.

@ super recoveries-- they sound good! And of course as an option they could be turned off but if we like them the game will be made with them in mind on default
     Posted: March 27, 2014, 06:21:27 pm
Oh and @Balthazar: I'm with you on the graphics used with specials and fx. I too prefer old school graphics like used in sfa and sf3 but we both know that we'll have to compromise for effects with transparancies and other things more akin to cvs2 :p

If it was up to me we'd be sticking with sfa graphics/sprites XD

Mixing is a good idea. @Judas: do you have suggestions? Aren't you working on some effects that could be used here as well?
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: A$AP Buckus on March 27, 2014, 06:21:32 pm
I also think the Sagat sheet looks pretty good. Feilong looks good as well. The Ryu/Akuma sheets are missing a lot of frames/anims to be usable in a game like this.

What about a tag mode? Or will this game focus on 1 on 1 fighting?

POTS Ryu has the gloves separated, but there is a missing shade on them. It's not that important as it's only a pixel in some frames.
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Balthazar on March 27, 2014, 06:24:10 pm
POTS Ryu does sound like the best choice to start with, if Armentis's Ryu sprites are really preferred, we would indeed need to fill in the missing animations (which sounds tedious but hey).

Mind if I whip up a quick movelist for Ryu?

--------------------------------------------------------------------
f+SP = Dash Punch (Solar Plexus Strike)
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Guard Break Attack = Collarbone Breaker (Overhead Punch),
Zero Counter Punch = Fist of the Wind (his Focus Attack in SF4),
Zero Counter Kick = spinning roundhouse sweep,
Punch/forward Throw = Shoulder Toss,
Kick/backwards Throw = Kick Throw ( c'mon the same one he always has),
Throw Counter = spinning roundhouse sweep (?),
Super Fall Recovery = Rolling Tatsumaki,
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Hadouken
- QCF+P ~projectile.
[EX] Shakunetsu Hadouken
- QCF+2P ~projectile ~burns ~knocks down.
Shoryuken
- DP+P ~rising anti-air ~invincibility on start-up ~knocks down.
[EX] Shinkuu Shoryuken (?)
- DP+2P ~rising anti-air ~invincibility on start-up ~knocks down.
Tatsumaki Senpuu Kyaku
- (air OK) QCB+K ~low (as in the altitude) invincibility on start-up ~knocks down.
[EX] Shinkuu Tatsumaki
- (air OK) QCB+2K ~vacuums ~knocks down after last hit.
Horse Kick
- QCF/HCF+K ~knocks away.
[EX] EX Horse Kick
- QCF/HCF+2K ~knocks away and wall-bounces.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
[Super 1] Shinkuu Hadouken
- QCFx2+P ~projectile.
[MAX Super 1] Metsu Hadouken
- QCFx2+2P ~projectile.
[Super 2] Metsu Shoryuken
- QCFx2+K ~rising anti-air, invincibility on start-up.
[MAX Super 2] Shin Shoryuken
 - QCFx2+2K ~FIST OF THE GODS.
--------------------------------------------------------------------

How does that sound/feel? I left out the Denjin Hadouken...I don't know why? I guess I tried to make his movelist a little smaller.
I kinda threw MAX supers in there...they would be full superbar + low health? Kind of to fill the void of Ultra's (Supers should be as damaging/impressing as they were back in the SSF2T days, I feel).
That said, how about if, similar to the pre-fight Super Combo selection, you would choose which of your Specials would be EX-enabled?
So, you would never have access to all of your special moves being EX-able. You would choose one or two and go with those for that fight.

I would ignore Tag stuff for now and base it on 1-vs-1 fighting, yeah. We should keep things as down-to-earth as possible for now.
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Niitris on March 27, 2014, 07:05:05 pm
Damn, I lost my post 3 times, finally finished.

FeLo_Llop said, March 22, 2014, 07:01:14 pm
That's a good new :D! Which characters do you like? I'm preparing some CS ready for the project.

I don't really have any preferences. I guess the starter characters (Ryu, Chunli, Zangief, etc...) for the sake of showing quick progress.

A$AP Buckus said, March 27, 2014, 06:21:32 pm
What about a tag mode? Or will this game focus on 1 on 1 fighting?

1-on-1 would be the point of emphasis for now. I wouldn't rule out dramatic battle somewhere down the line

Lost_Avenger said, March 22, 2014, 11:50:19 am
-start with a small roster and work up to more later. You don't want to get half way and your project die near the home stretch due to the lack of drive

This is rather important to emphasize. Being SF and all, we can actually get away with a 10 character effort the first time around (before the inevitable Super Hyper Ultra versions).

Lost_Avenger said, March 22, 2014, 11:50:19 am
-don't add extra chains/target combos. SFXTekken sucked. Don't repeat the awkward feel

This... I like target combos but not everyone should have them, nor should there be too many since SF is a fundamentals fighting game that emphasizes spacing and range (more so than other fighters). Adding TCs would be counterproductive to that endeavor.

Balthazar said, March 27, 2014, 05:48:29 pm
Also, what style of fx/sfx are we thinking of? Most likely CvS2 hitsparks and sounds? Though I would actually suggest looking for something fresh as to make them not look like your typical Pots/Jmorphman characters. They need to stand out.

Also this... CvS effects don't have certain details that a lot of the CPS fighters had (shock sprites anyone).

Balthazar said, March 25, 2014, 09:51:21 pm
No, it didn't have it. And it wouldn't be feasable in a 2D mugen game anyway :P

Closest thing to a sidestep in a 2D fighter was KoF '99 evade (it was too slow), but that's for another discussion and doesn't matter in this regards anyway.

Just No Point said, March 27, 2014, 03:59:51 pm
Do you guys have a chat option and/or google drive?

I've never been big on those kind of things, but I guess I could make one just for this

I could start on any characters. I'm not the absolute best coder around, but I can get the job done. Only issue I have is gathering material to be faithful to CLSNs and the likes. I could use approximations but I'd rather not do that.

One last thing, I find it odd that Metsu Hadouken in CvS2 (Evil Ryu) was Denjin Hadouken without the Level charging. :P
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Alex Sinigaglia on March 27, 2014, 07:10:50 pm
Niitris said, March 27, 2014, 07:05:05 pm
Only issue I have is gathering material to be faithful to CLSNs and the likes.
Me too.
Must we use accurate hitboxes from games? Or can we make some that look ok (and maybe better)?
---
Ah, I found the answer:
JNP said:
Now, we don't have to be 100% accurate on everything since this will not be a remake of a particular game. The data mining will be for a base. CVS2 doesn't have a hitbox viewer so most CLSN data will come from other games and tweaked as needed for this one.
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Just No Point on March 27, 2014, 07:26:51 pm
I figure I'll do most of the sff, air, CLSN creation, etc

I could even probably get that info from CVS2 if I wanted to do so thanks to XGargoyle's  tutorial (http://mugenguild.com/forum/topics/obtaining-clsn-accurate-data-daraku-tenshi-the-fallen-angels-157662.0.html) Not sure if I'll be that anal about it though :P
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: varo_hades on March 27, 2014, 10:55:44 pm
Very promising project, I think the gameplay is a lot of work but well if you decide like that, I can help with my color separations(I did color separation of pots Ryu the pants and belt) and probably coding, If someone adapt the coding of my chars with your system(because I make chars like pots style).
For the plot I like that all games of street fighter the canon part, you consider alt. versions of chars like Sodom Final Fight and Sodom Street Fighter, or Chun-li Street Fighter Zero and Chun-li Street Fighter 2. And well I like to see Shin Bison in Capcom vs Snk graphic (only need to add the cape).
For the plot of Street Fighter games I recommend separate Street Fighter Zero 2 and Street Fighter Zero 3, Street Fighter Second Impact and Street Fighter Third Strike, Street Fighter 4 and Ultra Street Fighter 4, because is not the same story is the direct continue and well this is my proposed:

Street Fighter 1
-Ryu
-Ken(probably with appearance of Street Fighter Zero saga for the plot of course)
-Sagat(I think the color separation of DivineWolf is enough for hide the scar)

Street Fighter Zero 2
-Rose
-Dan
-Shin Akuma(Is not the final boss of all characters, but is one secret boss of all characters if you follow some requeriments)

Street Fighter Zero 3
-R. Mika
-Karin
-Shin Bison

Street Fighter 2
-Chun-li
-Guile
-Akuma(Normal not shin)

Street fighter 4
-C. Viper
-Zangief
-ShinGouken(Is a secret final boss very similar of Akuma of Street Fighter 2, and the difference of normal gouken is more powerfull and a little change of palette)

Ultra Street Fighter 4
-Juri
-Decapre
-Seth

Street Fighter 3 Second Impact
-Alex
-Ibuki
-Gill

Street Fighter 3 Third Strike
-Dudley
-Sean
-Q(Secret boss of all characters like Shin Akuma of Street Fighter Zero 2)

And you can consider one section of Final Fight
-Guy
-Poison
-Sodom(Because he was a boss in the Final Fight original)
And probably add more Final Fighters, even characters that not appeared like Haggar, Damnd, Abigail,etc.

And for the rest of Street Fighter 1 characters the sprites exist in cvs style Geki, Joe, Mike, Retsu and Lee only need complete the sprites.
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: FeLo_Llop on March 27, 2014, 11:06:33 pm
- About RYU: we just need a list of what's missing in that sheet and translating it into pixels. Thinks as that dynamic recovery, that kick opener/ linker (to tatsumaki, as shown in Balthazar's link about the SF2M).

- Electro Shock: Don't stare at me like that but...YES, this definitively needs that animation. Everyone from SFZ and SF3 has it(even a bit different--yellow aura!). Also, my Rose and Viper have it as in SF3(without that BAM! FLAT YELLOW!!). Also, erased it from DJ and Karin(teasing teasing!). Anyway, it's up to you...if you prefer as in SFZ(with that yellow), then so be it. If as in SF3: I WILL LOVE YOU ALL FOREVER AND EVER.

- Sagat: I know Armenti's work is awesome. VERY awesome. But that Sagat lacks something that Sagat IS: someone to be affraid off. Armentis' Sagat smiles. And directly coming from SvC, or SlenderMan on steroids. You can't compare to Chamat's and Chucho's work:
http://mugen.wikia.com/wiki/Sagat  <----Now, THAT'S impressive. Big, massive. Menacing. I'd say, just keep his size as it is in that SF3 conversion. He's a giant, after all(as Hugo). He doesn't needs a resizing into CvS values.
It just need a palete similar to CvS Values. I'll try it later or tomorrow morning. Showing it's a must.

- Effects: I'd say...for saving time, CvS. Or if someone can make some sexy and awesome FX from SFZ(I guess...someone converted them, but I'm not sure) would be cool too. I'm totally terrible at this.

- Now that we are speaking about effects...how many of you remember the BURN state from SF2(also the PSYCHO BURN)? I thought it can have a place here, maybe putting it above the gethit of the character while falling(with transparencies and sexy treatment). Or the same, but making a single custom sprite for the character. I mean, in SF2, everyone shared the same burn figure. Even Zangief, who's big as Hell and etc. Here it would need a resize for the fire figure. Did a try, it's around...30 seconds :P. Unfortunately, I'm terrible doing FX. Your choice.

- TAG/ Dramattic Battle: I'd say YEAH. FUCK YEAH. But maybe not in the begining. Why not implementing it in next stages?


Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Just No Point on March 28, 2014, 04:19:14 am
Alex Sinigaglia said, March 27, 2014, 05:11:36 pm
I would really like to join in this project, but with chat option what do you mean? I'm also not registered in Google +, but I'm very active here so there's that.
It's fine. It won't be a requirement. Just when we start working on certain things it might be easier to pull up a chat window. Consider yourself joined. I want this to be open to anyone that wishes to participate.

Balthazar said, March 27, 2014, 06:24:10 pm
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty
Yeah I agree. I would love dramatic battle type stuff but to start with we won't put much thought into team battle.
I like this move list!
Where is his f+MP overhead punch? ;_;

I think we should try to come up with at least 3 super moves. Since you select the super it shouldn't over complicate things too much. Denjin could work. The MAX version could be ERyu's from CVS2 where it charges faster.

A third/fourth one could also be Evil Ryu mode. Where you turn into Evil Ryu for a short time. Lose EX moves but gain the dive kick, horizontal air hurricane kick, teleport, Shakunetsu Hadouken, Messatsu Gou Shouryuu, and Shun Goku Satsu

More specific replies coming tomorrow. Help me keep this somewhat active over the weekends. I work Sat, Sun, and Mondays 12 hour shifts so I won't get to do a lot on those days.
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: MS_Todd on March 28, 2014, 05:43:25 am
Uh, this is more like a personal opinion, but i think ryu shouldn't have a evil ryu transformation. What about a new kind of morphing, something far from the "evil" stuff?

Reason: In SFIV Gouken seals the evil intent from Ryu, so he can develope his own "final form" in terms of a inner's higher power. So, if we have a "evil" ansatsuken (akuma) and a "godish" ansatsuken (gouken), ryu could stand as a more neutral OR good (if you want to put Gouken in a "more neutral" char) ansatsuken warrior.

And also because i hate that evil crap. Is so childish and monotone. :)

I would want to help, but only if you need a writer or a beta tester. When is not on the cybaster stage creator tool, my mugen skills are zero to none XD

Greetings!
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Balthazar on March 28, 2014, 08:24:16 am
I would not bother with transformations, period. There's really no need for them.
Especially if Akuma will join the roster later, Evil Ryu mode is just a flashy tack-on we don't need. It just overcomplicates things and as mentioned many times, we should really focus on ground work first, setting up the overall system we want to work with.

Denjin Hadouken as a 3rd Super should be fine. It adds the shock&stun feature which is interesting.
He never really needed the Shinkuu Tatsumaki super ever since that became his EX Tatsumaki.
Speaking of Tatsu's, Ryu should probably have this version
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty
with Ken getting the classic Tatsu, just to differenciate things even more. Sean was going to add this Tatsu to his CvstW Ryu but I dont think that's happened yet. Not quite fond of the final axe kick though, the little spin at the end is kind of lame. But that can be reworked later, not a big deal right now.

Overhead Punch became his Guard Break attack, like it was in SF EX (though there the animation was quite different where he did a step forward and BAM). You didn't respond to my suggestion of pre-fight selectable EX specials, I think that will be a great addition.
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: FeLo_Llop on March 28, 2014, 11:35:26 am
- Ryu/E. Ryu: Having Gouki, somehow "invalidates" E. Ryu, but there are people who likes this mode...:/(I'm not a fan). There's also a way to include this in:

- BACKGROUND STORY: SF's canon is a mess. Period. Ono(?) says that every SF happens in its own universe/dimension. OK...why if something(call it Pandora, Psycho Power, Ingrid's Power-the same-, whatever power) merges all the dimensions in one? Normal and evil/EX versions could be able to be in the place(sharing slot and whatnot). Ryu-E.Ryu, etc. I've got something in mind:

Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

- Armentis Ryu:  I say that it's the best sprite sheet around. YES. But it's "a bit" colour messed. There are some sprites where the belt has ONE tone, other has THREE, other shares the darkest colour of hair...so, it got a lot more of work than I expected D: . I'll take a closer look as soon as finish Viper(missing: Ultra 2, Intro 1, Intro 2, kara throw. Also, speciffic stuff for this project, if so).
 
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Just No Point on March 28, 2014, 03:49:45 pm
Balthazar said, March 28, 2014, 08:24:16 am
I would not bother with transformations, period. There's really no need for them.
Especially if Akuma will join the roster later, Evil Ryu mode is just a flashy tack-on we don't need. It just overcomplicates things and as mentioned many times, we should really focus on ground work first, setting up the overall system we want to work with.
Evil Ryu has been in SEVERAL games at this point though. It'd be odd for him not to show up in one form or another. I'd rather it be as a super art than not have him at all. That being said this super could be of much lower priority so we move on to something else and come back to add it later on.

Quote
Denjin Hadouken as a 3rd Super should be fine. It adds the shock&stun feature which is interesting.
He never really needed the Shinkuu Tatsumaki super ever since that became his EX Tatsumaki.
Speaking of Tatsu's, Ryu should probably have this version
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty
with Ken getting the classic Tatsu, just to differenciate things even more. Sean was going to add this Tatsu to his CvstW Ryu but I dont think that's happened yet. Not quite fond of the final axe kick though, the little spin at the end is kind of lame. But that can be reworked later, not a big deal right now.
It's hard to get away from the classic. It feels like it may change how Ryu feels a lot. I've always thought it reminded me of Dan's gale kick too. I'm not saying "no" just that I'm feeling iffy on it =p

Quote
Overhead Punch became his Guard Break attack, like it was in SF EX (though there the animation was quite different where he did a step forward and BAM). You didn't respond to my suggestion of pre-fight selectable EX specials, I think that will be a great addition.
I really like the regular overhead though. I'll fight you for this one!!! Can we make his guard breaker the F+HP from SFA? The elbow dash?
As for the selectable EX attacks? I missed that for some reason. But TBH I like having all my super arts too :P And having to choose your EX is a bit of overkill IMO. Too many things to choose before a battle. (I'd like to choose colors before battle as well) Oh that reminds me. We'll have to make 2 versions won't we? You hate mugen 1.0 so some features will not work for winmugen like pal select before match. Darn it. Now I have to DL winmugen too! >:-(

Oh before I forget. I had a thought. The guard break probably won't be very useful with the block meter. But if we make it shatter some of the guard meter as if it was a guard crush it might make it more useful. (In SFA when you crush a guard the bar reduces in length)
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: DKDC on March 28, 2014, 03:59:43 pm
Just No Point said, March 28, 2014, 03:49:45 pm
But if we make it shatter some of the guard meter as if it was a guard crush it might make it more useful. (In SFA when you crush a guard the bar reduces in length)
In SFZ, you have to hit a guarding opponent many times before getting to the guard crush state and reducing the guard meter. If the Guard Break does that in one attack, that guard gauge will be very short lived. It should probably put in guard crash state without reducing the guard gauge's overall size, but still decreasing its current amount by a fair share (as if hitting them several times without causing guard crush). It'd still be faster than hitting with regular attacks, but you'd still have to do it several times for each gauge reduction, and you(d still get the advantage of actually breaking the opponent's guard.
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Just No Point on March 28, 2014, 04:02:34 pm
Right. Instant shatter may be a bit too OP Thanks for the feedback!
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Balthazar on March 28, 2014, 04:02:50 pm
Hah well yeah not a fan of Winmugen, but a community project like this is for the greater good, so I wouldn't be TOO upset if it's 1.0 only....maybe a little. I know 1.0 is a bit easier for most coders to work with. But yeah if anything, the 1.0-only features can be added at the very end (like pal selection since that doesn't influence gameplay at all).

As for the Guard Breaks, ALL of them were overhead animations, so I don't think Ryu's elbow dash (which is straight, to the midsection) will be suitable. But like I said, the Guard Break animation for Ryu is quite different from his regular f+MP animation, so he can probably have both.
Here is his Guard Break (though for this game it would need to be recorded for tracing when he performs it on the left side, p1 side, ofc):
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty
Guard Break shattering a portion of the Guard Meter sounds fine to me too (like, it breaks a section of the guage off, making it shorter for the rest of the fight).

Retaining the classic Tatsu won't be a big deal for me either, either version is fine with me (I'm just trying to push as many SF EX features forward since I love that game :P)

To DKDC, the Guard Break attack costs 1 supermeter lv and it's very slow, I don't think it should be nerfed so much, since it'll be easy to knock the attack out of the animation. That said, in SF EX3, did did make it meterless. But I can't stress enough; SCREW SF EX3, that game was shit and I hate it with a mild passion. EX1/2 is where it's at.
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: -Red- on March 28, 2014, 04:03:52 pm
You don't really want to develop both a 1.0 and winmugen version of the game. Stick with one engine.
     Posted: March 28, 2014, 04:10:59 pm
I think you guys are getting the concept behind the guard crush attack wrong. Is not a "guard crush" attack really, it's just an unblockable strike that stuns the opponent for a short time. You don't really have to consider it while designing the guard meter behavior. You can just keep it like SFA3 AND keep the guard crush attack as it was in SFEX2 and nothing changes. You NEVER "block" the attack, it's unblockable. You're not getting guard crushed, you're just unable to block that particular strike.
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Just No Point on March 28, 2014, 04:11:54 pm
Balthazar said, March 28, 2014, 04:02:50 pm
Hah well yeah not a fan of Winmugen, but a community project like this is for the greater good, so I wouldn't be TOO upset if it's 1.0 only....maybe a little. I know 1.0 is a bit easier for most coders to work with. But yeah if anything, the 1.0-only features can be added at the very end (like pal selection since that doesn't influence gameplay at all).

Yeah we could try to do that. I just wanted to be sure you could play and enjoy the game you seem to be investing so much into =p If you're okay with 1.0 only that would really make things simpler because I have no idea what all is 1.0 exclusive besides the pal thing and ai. Man it'll make it so much easier to make an AI too!
     Posted: March 28, 2014, 04:13:54 pm
-Red- said, March 28, 2014, 04:03:52 pm
I think you guys are getting the concept behind the guard crush attack wrong. Is not a "guard crush" attack really, it's just an unblockable strike that stuns the opponent for a short time. You don't really have to consider it while designing the guard meter behavior. You can just keep it like SFA3 AND keep the guard crush attack as it was in SFEX2 and nothing changes. You NEVER "block" the attack, it's unblockable. You're not getting guard crushed, you're just unable to block that particular strike.
I know. But since it's so slow and costs meter and is easy to be knocked out of I figured it could be adapted a bit differently and buffed using the guard crush system.
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: -Red- on March 28, 2014, 04:18:48 pm
There are many small differences. Even down to how hitpauses work like (It's glitched in winmugen), and it's the superior engine, it's damn stable. I don't want to go back to the winmugen days where you would get random crashes all the time, and had to use .ogg files to avoid music skipping or had to use .adx files to have looping music. It's a nightmare everywhere.

Is not just a matter of "hey let's add pal selection at the end" to adapt them from one engine to another. You have to keep tons of things in mind for that. It's pretty much impossible if you want to have a big community project with many coders.
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Balthazar on March 28, 2014, 04:22:59 pm
1.0 it is then ;)
My beef with 1.0 is for purely aesthetic reasons, I am not denying it's programming-superiority.
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: -Red- on March 28, 2014, 06:08:38 pm
I thought you had a problem with how the sound works like :P
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: FeLo_Llop on March 28, 2014, 08:14:58 pm
That's very interesting...a move that can break a guard :3

Now...I DLed Armentis' sheet of Ryu and opened it with Photoshop just for...watching the belt problem he told me about.

Belt...problem? Belt, hair, gloves, skin, dogi...it was a colour mess. There was nearly 60 colours. After messing with the mess, I've downgraded them to 26(transparency included). But, why do I say "mess"? Because the darkest hair tone shares colour with the darkest of the glove. Some bandana shares colours from the gloves too. Some eyes and teeth shared colours with dogi, so...

DON'T WORRY! It's now a quickie thing to fix :D!! I'll try to have that sheet fixed by this weekend or Wednesday as much.

Haave a nice day!
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Balthazar on March 28, 2014, 08:30:40 pm
-Red- said, March 28, 2014, 06:08:38 pm
I thought you had a problem with how the sound works like :P
That too, but I guess you could file that under aestethics?

FeLo, I would advice you to play some SF EX on emulation...but sadly those 3D games don't ever really work that well on emulation (neither on Mame or PSX emus).
Sad to hear his Ryu sheet is so messy, color-wise. I still think we should just begin with CvS Ryu sprites, perhaps later swap the animations out with Armentis' Ryu sprites once those are fixed (+ missing animations filled in).
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: FeLo_Llop on March 28, 2014, 08:38:41 pm
I have SFEX2 in MAME :P. Also I agree with you about the way it word D: !!

About Ryu's sprites: I think I can have them by this weekend OR as much, Wednesday. I just have to organize myself with it.... And also, I have to find your "completations"(I mean, that kick opener into tatsumaki from the movie, that guard breaker kick, etc). Found a way that can make spriting easier than ever :D!

Once done that...who could CS him? I would try, but  I'm currently messed with Viper and also have to CS her(found some colour mistakes that I did D: )
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Balthazar on March 28, 2014, 08:43:52 pm
There is THIS, that kick is pretty much exactly what he needs (though it can be improved a little perhaps).
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-am7Ku7cxSxs/UP3DQMh48QI/AAAAAAAAAlg/OSS4y_WVMc0/s227/Tatsumaki%2520Hien%2520Sempuu%2520Kiaku.gif)
Just that first kick, altered a little to come from his roll. Kinda dumb how the creator of this animation made the Tatsu spin the other direction :P
Kinda nullafies the use of that start-up kick, if you ask me!
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Just No Point on March 28, 2014, 09:28:22 pm
If you finish ryu's sprites before we start working on him we'll use those edited sprites. If not we can add them in and alter the clsn later on. Win win. CS can be done after the sff is made.

As for the get up hurricane kick, I think Ryu should use both of his feet like he does in the SF2 movie against Fei Long. Basically that's like an upside down spinning bird kick.(right side up? :p)
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: MS_Todd on March 28, 2014, 09:31:50 pm
a ground-to-up tatsumaki? Sounds pretty good.
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: FeLo_Llop on March 29, 2014, 10:52:18 am
Grrrr...Dunno where I had that sheet you did with the sketchy completaions, Balthy U_U!!!

I'll take today for starting process of fixing the hair.

Also, this is WHY I prefer Chucho's/Chamat Sagat instead of Armentis':
(http://i58.tinypic.com/ne9jbq.png)

It looks big, agressive, intimidating. That's what makes it the BEST Sagat (in terms of sprites). Also, that's a quickie, rushed downgraded cvs palete I did for him.
This is how their relationship looked like in SF1:
(http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/h_dM7SWLBTQ/hqdefault.jpg)
In SF4(it seems Ryu grew...or Sagat went smaller D: )
(http://arcadeberg.com/files/2008/11/street_fighter_iv_07.jpg)

Bonus:
(http://i62.tinypic.com/2ca2ye.png)
(Not meaning is going to be a wip, just a bons sprite)
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Alex Sinigaglia on March 29, 2014, 11:59:09 am
You have to consider that:
- in the SF1 pic Sagat's leg is straight, he is not bent in a fighting pose but he is guarding; in his fighting pose he would look "smaller";
- Ryu aged quite a bit from SF1 to SF4, so that means he could have become taller;
- the graphics changed, the art (and I also include the 3d models) changed with the artists (and in this case I consider the creators of the 3d models artists).

I would say Sagat sprite style clashes with Ryu's, but in the end it's your choice, you're the leader (you created this topic!).
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Balthazar on March 29, 2014, 12:50:23 pm
I do agree the SF3 Sagat clashes quite a bit, even with the color reduction.
Armenti's SNK converted Sagat does look a lot better imo. And the smile, if you dislike it, is a very easy edit (but we're talking Armentis here, so Sagat's colors are bound to have issues, same as his Ryu has).
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: MS_Todd on March 29, 2014, 04:01:14 pm
i think a more bulky sagat helps to reinforce his image as a "big boss".
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: DKDC on March 29, 2014, 04:44:35 pm
I agree with making him two heads taller than Ryu but at the same time this fucking shoulder from the side is as wide as Ryu's belly from the front (and his biceps isn't much smaller), there's a limit to how big he should be. That's okay with Hugo but it's a little bit much with Sagat. Maybe a bit of a horizontal downscale would be enough.
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: varo_hades on March 29, 2014, 08:23:06 pm
I agree too, can be fix only changing the size and save troubles of sprites and color separation and don't need do more sprites of him, even ryu too.
The stages will have super jump or not?
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: MS_Todd on March 30, 2014, 01:07:33 am
I don't think regular superjump for the characters could be good, but i think longer stages for dramatic or special purposes (i.e. akuma, falling superpunch/palm or like the stages intros in third strike new generation) could be pretty awesome.
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Just No Point on March 30, 2014, 01:35:12 am
Stages won't have super jump because we'll be using stages from several games and most won't have super jump. Adding it would involve a lot of sprite work on the stages.

Now interactive stages are possible however.
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: QuickFist on March 30, 2014, 01:48:52 am
I wanted to ask you guys something in all seriousness, this brainstorming is really amazing and I love how the community/SF fans are sharing ideas here but.
Is this going somewhere? I mean, after you settled the system, roster, etc.
Will this lead to a community co-operative fullgame?
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Xan on March 30, 2014, 01:53:24 am
Lemme just throw this out there about entire communities making fullgames:
Alpaca-San said, March 25, 2014, 01:40:16 am
Have you not seen how games Eternity of Heroes and the Mortal Kombat Project turned out? It will be really difficult to achieve a coherent project. It will be an inconsistent mess of decently coded characters that try to be themselves and horribly coded characters that try to be a stupid hodgepodge of the author's own ideas with disregard to fitting in the full game project. A full game needs a small, focused group that can work together in harmony rather than just have all these random people make contributions of wildly varying quality.
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Alex Sinigaglia on March 30, 2014, 03:05:32 am
QuickFist said, March 30, 2014, 01:48:52 am
Will this lead to a community co-operative fullgame?
Hopefully yes.
Sinneslochen said, March 30, 2014, 01:53:24 am
And your point is?
Ah, I get it, since the other communities tried and failed, then we'll fail too (in quality). Oh, thanks for being optimistic!

A community is made of several people who can give feedback and work with us, fixing mistakes etc.; we help each other to refine the style we intended to make for the fullgame. This is not IMT (that post you quoted was referred to that) where "Nice +1" is the norm. We have some actual feedback (bugs, glitches reports).
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Xan on March 30, 2014, 03:07:16 am
I apologize for bringing up something that you hadn't thought of before.
EDIT:
Alex Sinigaglia said, March 30, 2014, 03:05:32 am
A community is made of several people who can give feedback and work with us, fixing mistakes etc.; we help each other to refine the style we intended to make for the fullgame.
It seems you're misinterpreting, given what you said. Having the entire community code one project would lead to what was said. What you say is not what was meant. Kay thanks.
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: DKDC on March 30, 2014, 03:13:30 am
Alex Sinigaglia said, March 30, 2014, 03:05:32 am
Ah, I get it, since the other communities tried and failed, then we'll fail too (in quality). Oh, thanks for being optimistic!
You know you'll get quoted and mocked for this if the project ever happens to end up dead.
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: MS_Todd on March 30, 2014, 04:29:51 am
Just No Point said, March 30, 2014, 01:35:12 am
Stages won't have super jump because we'll be using stages from several games and most won't have super jump. Adding it would involve a lot of sprite work on the stages.

Now interactive stages are possible however.

You could ask Lightflare, if i can remember (and if i'm not wrong) he was working on many extended stages from SFA3-SF2 stages.
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Just No Point on March 30, 2014, 04:52:04 am
There are more chances things can screw this project over and/or end it completely than there are chances it'll get somewhere even a quarter where we're reaching.

I don't know all the details about those community projects but from what you're saying it sounds like people made whatever they wanted with no kind of quality check or assignments.
I'm tweaking my approach that I had hosting the Web Comic Awards into this. It's a lot different but I think there are many similarities.  Yes, it's to be an open community project but there needs to be a host. I've taken up that mantle. I have a set plan for how to assign and distribute the work. I'll be open to ideas that will improve the distribution and the work flow. But to break it down in a general sense.

Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

That's just a bit of the idea I have for this/ I'm sure there are a lot of flaws but we have a lot of talented people that should help us figure out how to accomplish this. It's a community project but it'll probably still be a pretty small group working on things at a given time. I hope any of that made sense :P

But yes, I'm well aware this is a very uphill battle.

MS_Todd said, March 30, 2014, 04:29:51 am
You could ask Lightflare, if i can remember (and if i'm not wrong) he was working on many extended stages from SFA3-SF2 stages.
That's a possibility.  We'll have to see the quality and the number of stages he has converted.
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: QuickFist on March 30, 2014, 05:10:29 am
That sounds perfect, you know, maybe I don't have the skill (I kinda suck) but I want in.
This project sounds just too awesome and I wanna be a part of it, sure I'll have to learn the stuff but I wanna help anyway I can.
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: டுந்க்ற்க்ţ on March 30, 2014, 07:57:46 am
I don't think that the Sagat eFeX, Chuchoryu & me did fits. We conceived it with SF3 sprite style.

I don't like neither Armentis' Sagat because to me is simply SvC' one with reduced colors, but that's me. Neither I like his Ryu to be honest, I know it is originally from SF3 but I don't know which style he is aiming to, plus it has some jerky animations.

About chuchoryu, I thank him for helping me finishing SF3 Sagat but I still see some issues in his sprites.

I would recommend to keep CvS2 Ryu and CvS2 Sagat. There is another option that could fit but you would have to edit CvS2 Sagat same as DGO's:

(http://i.imgur.com/8705Jpf.gif)

Maybe it's not that menacing by size but he fits, plus that it is in the scale CAPCOM selected for Sagat in CvS2.

Size comparisson:
(http://i.imgur.com/dEiwlpZ.png)

1.In CvS2 the difference is minimal,2. in SvC is bigger 3. Which Armentis kept, 4.But the ones you are comparing doubles CvS2' size difference.

5.Even that, is the same eFeX used for SF3 leaving Sagat as huge as Hugo, 6.But in SvC Sagat isn't that tall.

7.If you want an easy choice you can use Armentis' Sagat with CvS2 Ryu.

*Plus, in the ones you are chosing (SF3 Sagat+Armentis Ryu) the shade styles totally clash

Of course you can use whichever you want, if you want to use mine go ahead but I still think it clashes.
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Balthazar on March 30, 2014, 10:12:45 am
I must say I totally agree here (using CvS Ryu and CvS Sagat or Armentis's Sagat). That DGO edit looks pretty good but yeah I guess he doesn't have a full sheet of those. I'm just kind of iffy on using any of Armentis' stuff in general because of the known problems with those (messy colors/choppy animations).

Here's a mockup of Ryu's would-be Super Recovery move thing:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v297/Tracks2000/RyuSuperRecoveryTatsumockup_zpsdbdb9ea9.gif) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Tracks2000/media/RyuSuperRecoveryTatsumockup_zpsdbdb9ea9.gif.html)

JNP's methods sound good too (I can only imagine there can be issues when overwriting/merging the code done by multiple persons?).
Also the part of having open-source codes in the threads for all to see and learn from. Good job man.
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Alex Sinigaglia on March 30, 2014, 11:42:42 am
Sinneslochen said, March 30, 2014, 03:07:16 am
Spoiler: To C.A.N (click to see content)

I wanted to be part of this project/idea engineering because I want to learn more about coding and about teamwork.

DKDC said, March 30, 2014, 03:13:30 am
You know you'll get quoted and mocked for this if the project ever happens to end up dead.
:)
I know. Thanks.

Anyway, Just No Point explained what I meant, basically.
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Just No Point on March 30, 2014, 11:47:24 am
I don't think there will be a huge issue overwriting/merging coding. I'm trying to think of a good way to make it easier for anyone to update the code. Like the cns could be hosted on google drive or maybe I could create a wiki to prevent vandalism. For the most part the idea is to openly post most of the code in the forums. This will make it easier to check for consistency and be added into the project. Or it's added in the project 1st then posted to the forum. Depending on who's contributing at the time. Only certain people should be assigned the task of updating the code on the fly without submitting it 1st.

Most of these tasks will be decided by us as a group. Most users know their strengths and weaknesses in certain fields.

I'm also leaning a bit more toward simply using CVS Ryu just because so much stuff has already been made for him. There are numerous resources available and since he'll be the 1st character we start with it'd be best to be able to add new animations right away instead of wait to add new stuff after the other Ryu is converted.
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Alex Sinigaglia on March 30, 2014, 03:29:56 pm
It's better to use CvS Ryu, Armentis's is something between SF3 and CvS and there are some sprites that don't animate well.

When I'm saying "it's something between SF3 and CvS" I don't mean the shading clashes (because he reduced the colour count), but the details are done differently. We could keep something from that sheet though (the intros for instance).
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Balthazar on March 30, 2014, 06:33:42 pm
I do agree, stuff from Armentis's sheet can be used (as bases to be resprited into proper CvS Ryu) but we really should stick with CvS Ryu for sprites.
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: A$AP Buckus on March 30, 2014, 07:02:38 pm
Re-looking at his sprite sheets, it would be best to use the officials cause they have a lot of work that still needs to be done (sagat's shading isn't finished on a lot of sprites). Only one that's passable at the current state is feilong, but he's a lil too small in this case. I think feilong(and guy for that matter) should get a different x scale than the normal .833333 that the cps2 chars get.

This project can work if there is a main team heading everything. What I mean is - the community can still contribute anything they can, but it has to pass through the core to be implemented.
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: ink on March 31, 2014, 03:27:03 am
I am not taking sides on this but I am not sure any of these Sagat would be a great fit.

I will say there is a simple aspect ratio equation that could be calculated based on the existing sprites to get correct scale for the sprites. Im not sure why his size would be so dramatically different in the shown examples.
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: FrozenDelight on March 31, 2014, 11:03:15 pm
FeLo_Llop said:
Blocking: This is SF3’s saga mark. It’s a defensive method which aside protecting you, gives us the opportunity of attacking the rival before he/she recovers, to move first.
I am a little confused by the original posters (FeLo_Llop) terminology in some cases. The use of the term 'blocking' seems to be descibing perhaps, parrying? But then FeLo uses the term 'parrying' in later posts alongside blocking.

FeLo_Llop said:
Also, I think that putting for example BLOCK for Ryu and Parry(whatever) for Ken, and etc, could make some quite differences between similar characters. Ryu is more (canon wise) focused, strategic fighter than Ken, who's more dinamic...
Then continues on a later page to describe blocking as if it is some kind of special feature. Ryu has block while Ken can parry? So does that mean Ken can't block?!  :dizzy2:  . I must be missing something really obvious here, because no one else has mentioned it. Could someone please clarify, cheers :)

Also, there is a fair amount of talk concerning something called Super Recovery. Do you mean that when you activate this, you actually hit your opponent? In other words, you get a guaranteed punish?
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Alex Sinigaglia on April 01, 2014, 12:08:56 am
Blocking and parrying are the same thing, but it's said blocking in the Jap version while it's said parrying in the US and European version.

Hey, what about the SFF? Are we going to use SFFv2 or v1?
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Just No Point on April 01, 2014, 12:47:49 am
SFF V2

The Super Recovery you're reading about is a new form of aggressive get up attack. And attack that in some way heads toward the opponent and attacks on get up.

I have to work tomorrow so I won't be super active here tomorrow either.
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: FeLo_Llop on April 01, 2014, 10:15:32 am
Block & Parry are different stuff in SF3. Look here:
http://zweifuss.ca/ryu/ryu.htm

Well, said that Ryu can block while Ken could Parry because that could turn them into more different characters than they are. Ryu is, storywise, more technical, while Ken is more dynamic, fluid, etc.

Also, I separated all the hairs for Armentis' Ryu. Also found Balthazar's awesome stuff that Ryu can use and making a list of things to do. Next step are the head band and gloves. Then, the CS. Got something in mind and Ryu can suffer variations. Who's gonna code him? I need to tell my ideas...in private :P!

--------------------------------------------------

Now...what if we do a list of stuff we can do?

- Sprites:
- FeLo_ Llop: Sheets of Rose and Viper. Sheets completations for some characters too(custom states as electro-shock, etc).

- Code:

- Stages:
- FeLo_Llop(I think I can revamp some...then someone could code them :P)
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: DKDC on April 01, 2014, 11:07:57 am
FeLo_Llop said, April 01, 2014, 10:15:32 am
Block & Parry are different stuff in SF3. Look here:
http://zweifuss.ca/ryu/ryu.htm
Hum, those three different block animations are just the regular "hold back" guard, it's just that SF3 has a different animation depending on where the attack comes from.
Maybe you're thinking of the Just Defense system from Garou 4 Mark of the Wolves and the corresponding Groove in CvS2, it was called Blocking in Japan. never mind, just checked, Frozen is right, Blocking is the Japanese term for Parry and not for Just Defense (which is simply Just Defense in Japanese too)
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: FrozenDelight on April 01, 2014, 01:55:34 pm
Alex Sinigaglia said, April 01, 2014, 12:08:56 am
Blocking and parrying are the same thing, but it's said blocking in the Jap version while it's said parrying in the US and European version.
Oh right, that may explain some of the confusion. Though it is then probably best not to use the terms 'blocking' and 'parrying' for the same thing, in the same bodies of text. I've never seen anyone refer to parrying as blocking. If in Japan blocking means parrying, then what do they call blocking?  :shocked2:

Just No Point said, April 01, 2014, 12:47:49 am
The Super Recovery you're reading about is a new form of aggressive get up attack. And attack that in some way heads toward the opponent and attacks on get up.
Ah yes thanks. But what I'm asking is - Is it a guaranteed punish? In other words, can the opponent block it?

FeLo_Llop said, April 01, 2014, 10:15:32 am
Block & Parry are different stuff in SF3. Look here:
http://zweifuss.ca/ryu/ryu.htm

Well, said that Ryu can block while Ken could Parry because that could turn them into more different characters than they are. Ryu is, storywise, more technical, while Ken is more dynamic, fluid, etc.
Yes, I am aware that blocking and parrying are different things*. Most fighting games have blocking though, your wording concerning Ryu and Ken says that Ryu can block and Ken can parry, suggesting that Ken can't block. I'm just pointing this out so that there is no confusion between the contributors of this project. So that the mechanics are clear.

*Well, in this case they are. According to Alex Sinigaglia in an earlier post, they're the same thing, but he was refering to Japanese terminology. Let's keep everything within Western terminology so as to not create confusion. [This is a footnote, check star]

DKDC said, April 01, 2014, 11:07:57 am
FeLo_Llop said, April 01, 2014, 10:15:32 am
Block & Parry are different stuff in SF3. Look here:
http://zweifuss.ca/ryu/ryu.htm
Hum, those three different block animations are just the regular "hold back" guard, it's just that SF3 has a different animation depending on where the attack comes from.
Yes, this is what I was thinking too.
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Alex Sinigaglia on April 01, 2014, 02:06:03 pm
Refer to hold-back guard as simply guarding, it will make things easier.
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: ink on April 01, 2014, 02:29:13 pm
So to be clear there will be a dodge, guard and parry?

That sounds awesome. Im excited to see this bread of defensive playing.
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: DKDC on April 01, 2014, 02:43:22 pm
FrozenDelight said, April 01, 2014, 01:55:34 pm
But what I'm asking is - Is it a guaranteed punish? In other words, can the opponent block it?
Here's my guess :
normally, when someone hits you with a super or a special, unless they have awesome recovery time, the animation usually counts on the target to be bouncing down, so the attacker is in their own recovery animation.
If you slash the gethit recovery and immediately do another attack, there's a fat chance that the attacker is still recovering himself. Only exceptions are attacks that send you flying to the other half of the screen (which would make characters with those kinds of moves OP, while characters having a super recovery with shit range would be harder to use), or moves that have instant recovery immediately after hitting (generally not happening).
So it looks like it's going to be a guaranteed super, but at a higher power cost than normal, I assume.
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: FeLo_Llop on April 01, 2014, 05:17:17 pm
FrozenDelight said, April 01, 2014, 01:55:34 pm
Most fighting games have blocking though, your wording concerning Ryu and Ken says that Ryu can block and Ken can parry, suggesting that Ken can't block. I'm just pointing this out so that there is no confusion between the contributors of this project. So that the mechanics are clear.

I was speaking about Ryu having X and Ken Y in this project, so both shotoCLONES could be a bit different. Ryu can keep the block while Ken just the Parry(speaking with SF3 words). A more different exemple, Tekken 3 Jin Kazama: He fights like his father, Kazuya. But he can reverse attacks(Back+Throw), while his father can't. So, a small modification like this is(blocking ONLY for Ryu and Parry ONLY for Ken---just speaking about these two--- can make quite a difference in strategy while playing them).

Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Balthazar on April 01, 2014, 05:25:51 pm
I think people are concerned what NO BASIC GUARDING will do for Ken :P
I mean, won't be you a sitting duck? Parrying is hard...
If anything, it's probably Ryu who COULD do without blocking, having only parrying (since he's more hardcore).
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: adbot3 on April 01, 2014, 05:47:52 pm
Twitch.tv is the premier streaming service for StreetFighter! Broadcast and watch the best gamers play! (http://twitch.tv/)
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: FrozenDelight on April 01, 2014, 10:24:21 pm
Alex Sinigaglia said, April 01, 2014, 02:06:03 pm
Refer to hold-back guard as simply guarding, it will make things easier.
I shall try to use 'guard' from now on. Perhaps it's because I'm in Britain, in my experience we say 'block' when refering to fighting games.

ink said, April 01, 2014, 02:29:13 pm
So to be clear there will be a dodge, guard and parry? That sounds awesome. Im excited to see this bread of defensive playing.
I really can't tell if this is sarcasm or not, lol.
DKDC said, April 01, 2014, 02:43:22 pm
FrozenDelight said, April 01, 2014, 01:55:34 pm
But what I'm asking is - Is it a guaranteed punish? In other words, can the opponent block it?
Here's my guess :
normally, when someone hits you with a super or a special, unless they have awesome recovery time, the animation usually counts on the target to be bouncing down, so the attacker is in their own recovery animation.
If you slash the gethit recovery and immediately do another attack, there's a fat chance that the attacker is still recovering himself. Only exceptions are attacks that send you flying to the other half of the screen (which would make characters with those kinds of moves OP, while characters having a super recovery with shit range would be harder to use), or moves that have instant recovery immediately after hitting (generally not happening).
So it looks like it's going to be a guaranteed super, but at a higher power cost than normal, I assume.
To be honest I wasn't looking for a "guess" from a Yes No question, was mostly asking the posters who actually listed the Super Recovery mechanic. But please take no offense, it's good to hear these ideas in such detail. Though, I'm a little confused because of the terminology used, I'm more used to fighting game terms outside of Mugen, while you may be using a mixture of both. Not to mention the fact that I seem to have mistaken the situation that this 'Super Recovery' would be used in. I thought it was activated after being thrown, that the use of the word 'super' was because it used meter to recover from throws in a different way. So actually all of this has totally confused me, lol. So this Super Recovery you lot are talking about is actually activated when you're hit by a super, I see!

Balthazar said, April 01, 2014, 05:25:51 pm
I think people are concerned what NO BASIC GUARDING will do for Ken :P
I mean, won't be you a sitting duck? Parrying is hard...
If anything, it's probably Ryu who COULD do without blocking, having only parrying (since he's more hardcore).
Finally someone gets what I'm trying to say, hehe. Well, not the opinion part exactly, I will leave my opinions to another time. But simply the underlining of certain mechanics posters have suggested.

adbot3 said, April 01, 2014, 05:47:52 pm
Twitch.tv is the premier streaming service for StreetFighter! Broadcast and watch the best gamers play! (http://twitch.tv/)
What is this Twitch you speak of? Oh, it's that Pokemon site isn't it. LuLz.  :mugoi:
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Balthazar on April 01, 2014, 10:50:53 pm
FrozenDelight said, April 01, 2014, 10:24:21 pm
So actually all of this has totally confused me, lol. So this Super Recovery you lot are talking about is actually activated when you're hit by a super, I see!

Actually not, at least that's not how I envisioned it. For me it was indeed a Super (costs meter) you'd activate after being knocked off your feet (be it through a Super, a Shoryuken or a simple low roundhouse sweep), and would instantly activate a unique counterattack. In Ryu's case, it would be the 'Rolling Tatsumaki  for example, for Claw it could be a special walljump escape-type move, for Zangief a special kind of advance/run into a grab attempt. Here's where we can add some extra uniqueness to each character.

And yeah blocking is the same as guarding (I've seen both terms be used in this forum), whilst the japanese variant of parrying as called 'blocking'. So it's a bit confusing, I'll grand you that.
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: MS_Todd on April 02, 2014, 05:40:14 am
As a personal opinion i think could be good if with ryu and ken the first characters in receive the new mechanics treatment are the rest of the world warriors.
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Just No Point on April 02, 2014, 05:44:40 am
Due to the large amount of different things we are now discussing it's getting more complicated to continue in one thread. Let's branch out.
Now we can make threads to talk about the super recovery (new name needed), what sprites we'll use, mechanics, etc

Renzo F, FeLo_Llop, Balthazar, and Alex Sinigaglia are the current mods

EDIT: I'll try to get some threads cranked out in here tomorrow. Feel free to make any though,
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Alex Sinigaglia on April 02, 2014, 10:18:58 am
What? Me a mod? Wow! :yippi:

The "Super Recovery" could be called "Recovery Reversal", what do you think?

Now I'm going to make a topic about it.
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Balthazar on April 02, 2014, 11:04:43 am
I'm not sure, 'recovery' and 'reversal' kinda sound like the same thing, and I think the 'super' should be in there if it's gonna use a super bar stock. Though, we could ALSO have variety within that (ex. Ryu's costs 1 super bar and can do a lot of damage, while Chun-Li's costs only half a stock (like an EX-special) and doesn't even attack the enemy but is merely an evasive/set-up type movement).
Maybe something like "Comeback Technique" ?
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Alex Sinigaglia on April 02, 2014, 11:21:44 am
If anyone agrees with him (I agree), then I'll change the name in the other topic.

Also, is it ok if I stick this topic and rename it to "Street Fighter - General Brainstorming" ?
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Just No Point on April 02, 2014, 11:54:40 am
Sticky away. Threads that need to be made. Ryu sprite poll to decide once and for all what the official sprites will be. Leave felo_llop's 1st post intact here and above it make an introduction to what this project is and aims to be.

Make a sticky about the proposed mechanics.
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Alex Sinigaglia on April 02, 2014, 01:02:49 pm
I made the introduction (if you want you can fix it).

I'm going to sticky this and make the poll.
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Alex Sinigaglia on April 02, 2014, 01:39:00 pm
Topic stickied.
Poll made.

3 days to vote for Ryu's spriteset! Everyone vote here!
Title: Re: Street Fighter
Post by: Just No Point on April 02, 2014, 01:42:21 pm
I was thinking the poll should be it's own topic :p

Need to show images of the sprites in the 1st post because not everyone will know what Armentis's sprites look like and will have to dig through the thread to find them.
Title: Re: Street Fighter + Poll: Ryu spritesheet: CvS or Armentis?
Post by: Alex Sinigaglia on April 02, 2014, 01:53:27 pm
Just No Point said, April 02, 2014, 01:42:21 pm
Need to show images of the sprites in the 1st post...
Done.
Title: Re: Street Fighter + Poll: Ryu spritesheet: CvS or Armentis?
Post by: T. Vinceson on April 02, 2014, 01:58:12 pm
I chose CVS Ryu--- A more older incarnation than his very young Alpha/Zero timeline self but, younger than his SF3 incarnation. Also, since he'll be assigned under the SF one representation of characters, so I had to choose a sprite version of him depicting him in a more youthful form. Again, this is just me.
Title: Re: Street Fighter + Poll: Ryu spritesheet: CvS or Armentis?
Post by: Lost_Avenger on April 02, 2014, 02:00:50 pm
Was that set finished? I thought it was missing sprites for certain moves? Like some recovery frames? Its been a while though
Title: Re: Street Fighter + Poll: Ryu spritesheet: CvS or Armentis?
Post by: Just No Point on April 02, 2014, 02:04:46 pm
It is. Felo is saying he'll finish all the missing frames. But IMO that is work that could be put elsewhere. For practicality reasons and for the large amount of CVS2 edits already made I voted for CVS2 Ryu
Title: Re: Street Fighter + Poll: Ryu spritesheet: CvS or Armentis?
Post by: Koop on April 02, 2014, 02:13:34 pm
Voting CvS Ryu because you don't want to spend too much time on existing sets.
Title: Re: Street Fighter + Poll: Ryu spritesheet: CvS or Armentis?
Post by: Balthazar on April 02, 2014, 02:14:06 pm
CvS Ryu...
Title: Re: Street Fighter + Poll: Ryu spritesheet: CvS or Armentis?
Post by: haruharu01 on April 02, 2014, 02:18:09 pm
cvs ryu
Title: Re: Street Fighter + Poll: Ryu spritesheet: CvS or Armentis?
Post by: DvVasconcelos on April 02, 2014, 02:23:17 pm
CvS Ryu.
There are very good editing sprites made ​​for him besides reducing working time.
Title: Re: Street Fighter + Poll: Ryu spritesheet: CvS or Armentis?
Post by: Hyogo on April 02, 2014, 02:27:00 pm
Voted for Artmentis, Couple of fixes and the sprites will look awesome.

I mean...Ryu's default CvS is overused, gotta be more original.
Title: Re: Street Fighter + Poll: Ryu spritesheet: CvS or Armentis?
Post by: Just No Point on April 02, 2014, 04:57:19 pm
Working on one more sticky. The over all goals, assignments, progress, etc thread. We need something that will keep progress moving. It will outline the ideas behind how this will work, what we want to accomplish in a certain time frame, etc. The hardest part will be getting a decent 1st template. Once the sprites are decided for Ryu I'll start putting together the sff and air.

More details in the upcoming thread.
Title: Re: Street Fighter + Poll: Ryu spritesheet: CvS or Armentis?
Post by: MotorRoach on April 03, 2014, 04:44:05 pm
Voted for Armentis Ryu. I really just love Ryu's design in Street Fighter 3, and Armentis' sheet just needs to be fixed here and there to look less jagged on the animations. That and a different sprite design for a CvS styled Ryu would be cool, IMO.
Title: Re: Street Fighter + Poll: Ryu spritesheet: CvS or Armentis?
Post by: ink on April 04, 2014, 03:36:53 am
MotorRoach  said:
Voted for Armentis Ryu. I really just love Ryu's design in Street Fighter 3, and Armentis' sheet just needs to be fixed here and there to look less jagged on the animations. That and a different sprite design for a CvS styled Ryu would be cool, IMO.
My same thoughts. It would be great if Ryu and Ken could look less identical.
Title: Re: Street Fighter + Poll: Ryu spritesheet: CvS or Armentis?
Post by: Bizarro Santamorphman on April 04, 2014, 03:49:04 am
Use CvS Ryu. There would be barely any work involved with that set sprite-wise and the time spent on Armentis's could be better spent on characters who don't even have a spriteset. You guys gotta keep things simple, if things spiral out of control and become too complex this project is never gonna get finished.
Title: Re: Street Fighter + Poll: Ryu spritesheet: CvS or Armentis?
Post by: Just No Point on April 04, 2014, 04:20:54 am
Totally agree. Especially since Ryu is going to be the 1st character. If we really like this version enough it'd be better for Armentis's Akuma. But since it needs so much work *more than Ryu IIRC) I'd still rather put that work into new animations or characters. But for the sake of community fairness the poll seemed the right way to go for better or worse.
Title: Re: Street Fighter + Poll: Ryu spritesheet: CvS or Armentis?
Post by: டுந்க்ற்க்ţ on April 04, 2014, 04:51:21 am
I say go with CvS just changing the pose from the stand animation to make it different.
Title: Re: Street Fighter + Poll: Ryu spritesheet: CvS or Armentis?
Post by: Just No Point on April 06, 2014, 03:22:15 am
54 votes is a pretty good turn out. It's nice to see so many people are at least interested in the concept!

CVS Ryu won btw :P
Title: Re: Street Fighter + Poll: Ryu spritesheet: CvS or Armentis?
Post by: Thagr8test on April 06, 2014, 04:55:32 am
I think a new stance for this game would be great for both ryu and ken. I'
d be willing to chip in to commission for both or just commission for one of them depending on a poll I guess if thats something the creators would be interested in that is
Title: Re: Street Fighter + Poll: Ryu spritesheet: CvS or Armentis?
Post by: Balthazar on April 06, 2014, 10:11:02 am
Only if it's a really good one, custom stances for these characters have been pretty lackluster overall.
And you can't change it too radically, it will make the transition to his moves look weird and wonky if it's too different from the original CvS stance.
Title: Re: Street Fighter + Poll: Ryu spritesheet: CvS or Armentis?
Post by: Pre-Teen Music Maker on April 06, 2014, 10:21:19 am
I agree;
some of the normals would have to change once that stance is modified.
Title: Re: Street Fighter + Poll: Ryu spritesheet: CvS or Armentis?
Post by: Alex Sinigaglia on April 06, 2014, 11:02:44 am
Poll closed:
CvS Ryu (Capcom)= 35 votes.
Armentis Ryu = 19 votes.
Total Members Voted: 54

A winner is CvS. :D

Stay tuned for another poll (this time for Sagat sprites).
Title: Re: Street Fighter + Poll: Sagat spriteset: CvS, Armentis or eFeX/Chamat/Chuchoryu?
Post by: Alex Sinigaglia on April 06, 2014, 11:23:38 am
Ok, I updated the first post with the images and added a poll.

Four days (because today is Sunday).
Title: Re: Street Fighter + Poll: Sagat spriteset: CvS, Armentis or eFeX/Chamat/Chuchoryu?
Post by: T. Vinceson on April 06, 2014, 11:30:22 am
eCC (eFex/Chamat/Chchoryu) sprite for me. I share Fel's opinion of Sagat; He must be a big, intimidating and fearsome opponent to behold.
Title: Re: Street Fighter + Poll: Sagat spriteset: CvS, Armentis or eFeX/Chamat/Chuchoryu?
Post by: Balthazar on April 06, 2014, 11:32:56 am
Meh there's not really a good choice for me here :P
CvS Sagat doesn't really do it for me and SF3 Sagat just stands out way too much. Personally I kinda dig Armentis's converted from SNK vs Cap.
Title: Re: Street Fighter + Poll: Sagat spriteset: CvS, Armentis or eFeX/Chamat/Chuchoryu?
Post by: FeLo_Llop on April 06, 2014, 01:02:51 pm
Chamat/ Chucho's. Armentis Sagat is Slenderman in steroids.
Title: Re: Street Fighter + Poll: Sagat spriteset: CvS, Armentis or eFeX/Chamat/Chuchoryu?
Post by: Balthazar on April 06, 2014, 01:30:10 pm
You know you could just edit the mouth on Armentis's Sagat so it's not smiling :P
Title: Re: Street Fighter + Poll: Sagat spriteset: CvS, Armentis or eFeX/Chamat/Chuchoryu?
Post by: DKDC on April 06, 2014, 01:30:21 pm
FeLo_Llop said, March 19, 2014, 12:13:32 am
CvS Sagat:
(http://www.fightersgeneration.com/characters3/sagat-stance.gif) (if this is wrong tell me, and I will find another one)
That's SFZ3 Sagat. CvS is essentially resized, but it still looks much better with the actual sprites (they're in the resource release section with all the other CvS2 rips)
(http://point-b.webatu.com/img/CvSSagat1.gif)
Title: Re: Street Fighter + Poll: Sagat spriteset: CvS, Armentis or eFeX/Chamat/Chuchoryu?
Post by: Alex Sinigaglia on April 06, 2014, 02:05:35 pm
Thanks, I'm now updating the post.
Done.
Title: Re: Street Fighter + Poll: Ryu spritesheet: CvS or Armentis?
Post by: ink on April 06, 2014, 06:16:10 pm
Thagr8test said, April 06, 2014, 04:55:32 am
I think a new stance for this game would be great for both ryu and ken. I'
d be willing to chip in to commission for both or just commission for one of them depending on a poll I guess if thats something the creators would be interested in that is
I happen to have a half finished CvS Ryu stance with a SF3 feel. It doesn't change anything too radically, so it won't look weird transitioning to his moves.

I will finish it up and share it here soon.
Title: Re: Street Fighter + Poll: Sagat spriteset: CvS, Armentis or eFeX/Chamat/Chuchoryu?
Post by: Alex Sinigaglia on April 06, 2014, 06:45:45 pm
Be sure to submit the stance in this topic (http://mugenguild.com/forum/topics/ryu-our-template-our-god-158619.0.html) instead.
Title: Re: Street Fighter + Poll: Sagat spriteset: CvS, Armentis or eFeX/Chamat/Chuchoryu?
Post by: FeLo_Llop on April 07, 2014, 12:08:12 pm
The problem with Armentis Sagat lies not just in the smile, is the fact that some of those sprites hasn't been converted at all, and also the shading doesn't clash with the graphics. That's why I prefer Chamat/ Chucho's sheet.

Using Armentis' Sagat would be time consuming to fix the whole thing(THOSE PANTS, as exemple...wave shades, missing the side line...etc etc). Armentis' voters; have u EVER seen the sheet sprite by sprite? Take a closer look, don't be that flashed because ZOMGZ! "CvS"! because is not cvs at all. And being honest, that time could be spend in another character who doesn't have a cvs sheet(SF1, SF4, etc). I also agree with Balthazar, I prefer making a sprite from scratch than fixing an existent...and Sagat has 90% of his sprites to be fixed.

I know I posted this image but...

(http://i58.tinypic.com/ne9jbq.png)

Look at Armentis' pants, the "I'm gonna rape yo' ass" smile, the lack of muscle definition...Chucho's/Chamat's Ryu is more impressive, defined, and menacing. I failed while putting on of the shading colours of the pants that I have to fix(for a better shading, dunno why I failed that O_o). Also, this Sagat would just need a re-scale via coding. That's all(plus a colour separation that I offer myself to do).

Anyway, I'd leave Sagat's votation for a later state. Ryu is the priority right now.

PS: For later votations: CHOOSE CHUCHO/CHAMAT'S SAGAT! ò_ó !!! Simple palete decrease is a win. We just have to add new stuff. That's all. We don't need to fix the WHOLE spritesheet.
Title: Re: Street Fighter + Poll: Sagat spriteset: CvS, Armentis or eFeX/Chamat/Chuchoryu?
Post by: Alex Sinigaglia on April 08, 2014, 11:37:28 am
Only one day left, guys. Keep voting!
Title: Re: Street Fighter + Poll: Sagat spriteset: CvS, Armentis or eFeX/Chamat/Chuchoryu?
Post by: Just No Point on April 08, 2014, 12:25:25 pm
I finally went with CVS Sagat. I just don't feel the other 2 completely. It was a touch choice but I'ma runnin' out of time to vote so a choice HAS to be made!!! AHHHH
Title: Re: Street Fighter + Poll: Sagat spriteset: CvS, Armentis or eFeX/Chamat/Chuchoryu?
Post by: Watta on April 08, 2014, 12:30:52 pm
Voted for CVS Sagat, but I should have voted for the Armentis one now that I'm seeing the sprite comparison -_-
Title: Re: Street Fighter + Poll: Sagat spriteset: CvS, Armentis or eFeX/Chamat/Chuchoryu?
Post by: Balthazar on April 08, 2014, 01:28:09 pm
Also CvS Sagat for me  :lipsrsealed2:
Title: Re: Street Fighter + Poll: Sagat spriteset: CvS, Armentis or eFeX/Chamat/Chuchoryu?
Post by: Omega on April 08, 2014, 02:17:56 pm
We have seen many converts of CVS and SFZ Sagat in Mugen. SF3 Sagat is cool but it just look right maybe because of it's colors. I voted for Armentis Sagat as it deserves it's own slot in a Mugen game like this.
Title: Re: Street Fighter + Poll: Sagat spriteset: CvS, Armentis or eFeX/Chamat/Chuchoryu?
Post by: FeLo_Llop on April 08, 2014, 05:16:28 pm
Well, if any of you wants to edit ALL the pants, re-do the messy colours, re-do the side line on the pants, resize(if needed: and IT NEEDS), and a LONG etc...be welcome to do. I'm not going to take a single sprite of that (terrible) version. Sagat deserves something awesome, and Armentis' version(even he's supercool spriter and all) seems rushed, and one of his laziest works.


Here's a GRAPHIC PROOF of what I'm saying. First converted Sagat is an old sprite I did LONG ago, long before Armentis'(second Sagat):
(http://i59.tinypic.com/beih6a.png)

As you can see, Armentis just recoloured SvC's a la CvS. Didn't put his fingers in the trousers, nor the feet toes...oh, and slim as Hell.

Why you people insist in INSULTING Sagat's good name? Unless you wanna retouch the whole thing, of course.
Title: Re: Street Fighter + Poll: Sagat spriteset: CvS, Armentis or eFeX/Chamat/Chuchoryu?
Post by: Umezono on April 08, 2014, 05:18:01 pm
Can you chill out? What was the point of holding a public opinion poll if all youre gonna do is shout at people for giving their opinion? If you saw all those problems with Armentius why did you even include him as an option in the first place? That's your mistake.
Title: Re: Street Fighter + Poll: Sagat spriteset: CvS, Armentis or eFeX/Chamat/Chuchoryu?
Post by: FeLo_Llop on April 08, 2014, 05:24:25 pm
Umezono said, April 08, 2014, 05:18:01 pm
Can you chill out? What was the point of holding a public opinion poll if all youre gonna do is shout at people for giving their opinion? If you saw all those problems with Armentius why did you even include him as an option in the first place? That's your mistake.
1- I'm calm, don't worry.
2- I didn't make the poll.
3- From 2), as I didn't make the poll, I haven't included Armentis' version.
4- Is not a bit "bipolar" not liking someone's version and including it in a poll? Just think about it. In any case, I said ina a past, that Armentis did a version, BUT not the best around. If you  have seen my impression(first time I spoke about it), you have had read that I thought/think/wil think that is Slenderman in steroids.

-------------------------------------------------

Now, guys, I think that we should focus on Ryu, IMHO. Let's leave polls for a future, as I propposed a page ago.
Title: Re: Street Fighter + Poll: Sagat spriteset: CvS, Armentis or eFeX/Chamat/Chuchoryu?
Post by: Umezono on April 08, 2014, 05:28:22 pm
As one of the project leaders the onus would still be on you to make sure something that you do not want to work with is not going to be included as an option. Did you guys talk at all about the resources you wanted to use? Good project management dictates that youre all on the same page, if you were, you couldve told whoever made the poll that it wasnt worth putting him on. He's  winning right now, and if he does, what are you guy guys gonna do? Just put up a big middle finger to everyone who voted and throw it out? And even with all that considered you seem pretty angry as you are accusing people of insulting a fictional character's name by choosing a depiction of him that they like, calling a work lazy and terrible, and literally just absolving yourself of any responsibility by telling everyone else to do the work. It just doesn't seem professional. Especially considering your earlier words of encouragement to cvs the abstract.

I should probably add this is not really a criticism of you sicne its not your poll, but of how disorganized the leadership is if you guys didnt all agree on this poll
Title: Re: Street Fighter + Poll: Sagat spriteset: CvS, Armentis or eFeX/Chamat/Chuchoryu?
Post by: Titiln on April 08, 2014, 05:38:27 pm
FeLo_Llop said, April 08, 2014, 05:16:28 pm
Well, if any of you wants to edit ALL the pants, re-do the messy colours, re-do the side line on the pants, resize(if needed: and IT NEEDS), and a LONG etc...be welcome to do. I'm not going to take a single sprite of that (terrible) version. Sagat deserves something awesome, and Armentis' version(even he's supercool spriter and all) seems rushed, and one of his laziest works.

Here's a GRAPHIC PROOF of what I'm saying. First converted Sagat is an old sprite I did LONG ago, long before Armentis'(second Sagat):
(http://i59.tinypic.com/beih6a.png)

As you can see, Armentis just recoloured SvC's a la CvS. Didn't put his fingers in the trousers, nor the feet toes...oh, and slim as Hell.

Why you people insist in INSULTING Sagat's good name? Unless you wanna retouch the whole thing, of course.
If someone's against it or doesn't like the looks of them, then have 2 ways:
- Shut up.
- Do a better version.
Title: Re: Street Fighter + Poll: Sagat spriteset: CvS, Armentis or eFeX/Chamat/Chuchoryu?
Post by: FeLo_Llop on April 08, 2014, 05:46:27 pm
- Umezono:
Wait....what?

Please, read:

I spoke about Armentis' Sagat. YES. Said is not the best looking around. OF COURSE. Spoke about ALL his mistakes(pants, shading, size, etc). Why is people voting that version? mostly because people is "bored" of SFZ/CvS Sagat. Voters of CvS/SFZ are nostalgic(hey! I would have voted that one unless Chucho and Chamat didn't do that awesome SF3 version!!) that likes those sprites, because they fit pretty well about what Sagat means: BIG-INTIMIDATING-SENSE OF POWERFUL. All that is nowhere found at Armentis' Sagat.

I always say that Armentis is an AWESOME spriter. ALWAYS SAID. And I keep that word, I take my hat off with some of his sprites, but Sagat is a deception, considering all his past works. 

Also, I'm not angry. I even listed all what that version lacks. And it's not just 2 or 3 sprites, is THE WHOLE thing. Just take a look at those pants. How the side lines disappears in some of the sprites(yes, in the pants). I know Armentis took his time, and that's something I(and we, of course) am grateful for, but that's not a point at saying is the most fitting Sagat around. I offered myself for fixing ALL his Ryu sheet, started it, and then the poll appeared. It was not selected but...Did I become menstrual? Nope. I took my time fixing that sheet. The question NOW is: WHO's going to fix the WHOLE thing about Sagat? There are some sprites that are just a recoloured SvC(example provided up there!!). Some have stuff forgotten. Or mixed colours. Or a messy thing in the belt-side line area; have u at least took a look at it? I have.

That's why I can speak about it. I'm not going to touch a single sprite(I said it), and this poll is the last time you will see me speaking about Armentis' Sagat.

__________________________
- Titiln:
I'm not against his version, I'm just saying it's rushed as Hell.

~~~At least I did a sprite conversion to somehow CvS(even a long long time ago); have you?
Title: Re: Street Fighter + Poll: Sagat spriteset: CvS, Armentis or eFeX/Chamat/Chuchoryu?
Post by: Umezono on April 08, 2014, 05:58:35 pm
You are ignoring every criticism I wrote. This whole fiasco is the result of miscommunication about the project and miscommunication between the project staff. All your art criticisms are valid, but because you guys fucked up, the fact you're refusing to work on it looks pretty bad for how organized your team is. Either this poll never should have happened or he shouldnt have been up there in the poll, both reveal that you guys didnt talk or think through how youre going to tackle character inclusions.
Title: Re: Street Fighter + Poll: Sagat spriteset: CvS, Armentis or eFeX/Chamat/Chuchoryu?
Post by: Xan on April 08, 2014, 06:01:21 pm
CvS Sagat. I'd have picked Chucho/Chamat's sprites, but they animate weirdly.
Title: Re: Street Fighter + Poll: Sagat spriteset: CvS, Armentis or eFeX/Chamat/Chuchoryu?
Post by: FeLo_Llop on April 08, 2014, 06:03:54 pm
Umezono said, April 08, 2014, 05:58:35 pm
You are ignoring every criticism I wrote. This whole fiasco is the result of miscommunication about the project and miscommunication between the project staff. All your art criticisms are valid, but because you guys fucked up, the fact you're refusing to work on it looks pretty bad for how organized your team is. Either this poll never should have happened or he shouldnt have been up there in the poll, both reveal that you guys didnt talk or think through how youre going to tackle character inclusions.

I read them. Also, thanks for your time.

Also, this

Xan said, April 08, 2014, 06:01:21 pm
CvS Sagat. I'd have picked Chucho/Chamat's sprites, but they animate weirdly.

Is true. I checked it too. Tha's ANOTHER reason why Armentis' Sagat is not the best choice around.
Title: Re: Street Fighter + Poll: Sagat spriteset: CvS, Armentis or eFeX/Chamat/Chuchoryu?
Post by: Umezono on April 08, 2014, 06:05:46 pm
so if he wins what happens? are you guys just gonna throw it out
Title: Re: Street Fighter + Poll: Sagat spriteset: CvS, Armentis or eFeX/Chamat/Chuchoryu?
Post by: Xan on April 08, 2014, 06:06:49 pm
FeLo_Llop said, April 08, 2014, 06:03:54 pm
Xan said, April 08, 2014, 06:01:21 pm
CvS Sagat. I'd have picked Chucho/Chamat's sprites, but they animate weirdly.
Is true. I checked it too. Tha's ANOTHER reason why Armentis' Sagat is not the best choice around.
But I wasn't talking about Armentis' Sagat??
Title: Re: Street Fighter + Poll: Sagat spriteset: CvS, Armentis or eFeX/Chamat/Chuchoryu?
Post by: Niitris on April 08, 2014, 06:08:09 pm
I'm with CvS (SFZ) Sagat. His sprites look cool and intimidating; he looks like the overwhelming God of Muai Thai.

SF2-proportioned Sagat doesn't quite give the same impression imo.
Title: Re: Street Fighter + Poll: Sagat spriteset: CvS, Armentis or eFeX/Chamat/Chuchoryu?
Post by: FeLo_Llop on April 08, 2014, 06:09:23 pm
- Umezono: Who have said that? Don't put THAT here that freely. If he's chosen, then so be it. I don't like that sheet, that's all. Show must go on :)!

- Xan: Why have I read Armentis(haaa!!I'm rushy too!)? the overall thing is ok, EXCEPT 3 kicks that moves weirdly, and the stand is...something that need to be fixed. That's all I can see on Chucho's Sagat.
Title: Re: Street Fighter + Poll: Sagat spriteset: CvS, Armentis or eFeX/Chamat/Chuchoryu?
Post by: Umezono on April 08, 2014, 06:10:36 pm
but you said you would refuse to work on it, what if nobody else has the ability to do it? then this whole thing comes to a halt over sagat.
Title: Re: Street Fighter + Poll: Sagat spriteset: CvS, Armentis or eFeX/Chamat/Chuchoryu?
Post by: Titiln on April 08, 2014, 06:11:43 pm
FeLo_Llop said, April 08, 2014, 05:46:27 pm
- Titiln:
I'm not against his version, I'm just saying it's rushed as Hell.
that's basically what the people that aren't super fond of cvsabstract's kairi are saying too
Quote
~~~At least I did a sprite conversion to somehow CvS(even a long long time ago); have you?
no and i don't see how a single sprite from either of us would change matters
Title: Re: Street Fighter + Poll: Sagat spriteset: CvS, Armentis or eFeX/Chamat/Chuchoryu?
Post by: Just No Point on April 08, 2014, 06:12:33 pm
Holy shit: Warning - while you were typing 9 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.

Dissension in the ranks!
I think I see why Felo is a bit irked about everything. He agreed on the open community aspect but some of the things(sprite wise) the open community is agreeing on is exactly the opposite of what he wants. System mechanics he can probably let go of a bit more. Sprites are his favorite thing and he has a lot stronger feelings for them. So seeing the Ryu sprites he wanted to use (and was already working to fix) not get voted in was rough.

And now he's passionate about the SF3 Sagat being in and it is trailing far behind. But to make it worse the sprite set he wants in the least is winning.

If it's any consolation Felo that sprite set is my least favorite of the 3 options as well :P

The poll is because this IS a community project. Sagat using sprites that need some work isn't as tall of an order as Ryu because Sagat will be much further away in the project. Sprites are just cosmetic (barring huge deviations to how CLSNs may work) so letting the community determine the winner is ideal.

I just hope Felo doesn't get too discouraged and decides the project is too far from his original idea.
Now there is one possible solution later. If the template works well and the modular coding idea is effective it shouldn't be too hard to do mere sprite swaps in an sff down the road with minor CLSN corrections. So to Felo, I wouldn't rule the other options completely out down the road. SFF building isn't too time consuming. Especially if all we need to do is replace them. It'd be like replacing them with a color separated sprite pack.

(Note that if CLSNs have to be changed for the swaps then the character probably wouldn't be part of the default game but would be an extra. Meaning there wouldn't be as much balance testing)
Title: Re: Street Fighter + Poll: Sagat spriteset: CvS, Armentis or eFeX/Chamat/Chuchoryu?
Post by: Titiln on April 08, 2014, 06:19:38 pm
armentis' sagat definitely needs work. i think the main question is if converting svc sagat to a proper cvs sprite style is worth the time (he would blend in with cvs ryu much better this way) or if sagat should just use his sfa sprites (or the sf3 style ones) and the time that would have been put into cvs sagat would go into something else
Title: Re: Street Fighter + Poll: Sagat spriteset: CvS, Armentis or eFeX/Chamat/Chuchoryu?
Post by: Iced on April 08, 2014, 06:27:55 pm
heya, you guys should prioritize what you want to do.

if making a proof of concept is the main objective then using existing sprites that need the least edits would be a priority over new frames.

You can add the fancy sprites later on if you want anyway.
Title: Re: Street Fighter + Poll: Sagat spriteset: CvS, Armentis or eFeX/Chamat/Chuchoryu?
Post by: Umezono on April 08, 2014, 06:38:32 pm
Yeah my major problem is you guys dont seem to be communicating that well. And Id still like to know what happens if armsagat wins. Do you have a seperate person to do completations?
Title: Re: Street Fighter + Poll: Sagat spriteset: CvS, Armentis or eFeX/Chamat/Chuchoryu?
Post by: Niitris on April 08, 2014, 06:57:09 pm
FeLo_Llop said, April 08, 2014, 05:24:25 pm
Now, guys, I think that we should focus on Ryu, IMHO. Let's leave polls for a future, as I propposed a page ago.

I'm with this. I believe too much is being read into something that won't be notably prevalent until later in development anyway.

Considering the topic, it's natural to discuss what spriteset Sagat would use, so posting about Ryu in this thread is kinda off-topic. But yeah, a bit early for this kind of poll/thread.
Title: Re: Street Fighter + Poll: Sagat spriteset: CvS, Armentis or eFeX/Chamat/Chuchoryu?
Post by: DKDC on April 08, 2014, 07:01:08 pm
Umezono said, April 08, 2014, 06:10:36 pm
but you said you would refuse to work on it, what if nobody else has the ability to do it? then this whole thing comes to a halt over sagat.
Umezono said, April 08, 2014, 06:38:32 pm
And Id still like to know what happens if armsagat wins. Do you have a seperate person to do completations?
... Then they use Armentis' Sagat anyway ? Felo said he wouldn't stop it, only he wouldn't fix it. You're asking who's going to do if not him, but those questions are way too early here. None of them is going to get committed right now to doing stuff that won't be close to ready even a year from now.
Felo got a little emotional about his area of expertise but you're pressing it a bit too hard.
Title: Re: Street Fighter + Poll: Sagat spriteset: CvS, Armentis or eFeX/Chamat/Chuchoryu?
Post by: Balthazar on April 08, 2014, 07:01:29 pm
Hey I never put up any Sagat poll :P I'm all for putting the focus solely on Ryu for now!
Title: Re: Street Fighter + Poll: Sagat spriteset: CvS, Armentis or eFeX/Chamat/Chuchoryu?
Post by: Alex Sinigaglia on April 08, 2014, 07:02:03 pm
Umezono said, April 08, 2014, 06:38:32 pm
Yeah my major problem is you guys dont seem to be communicating that well.

Yes, I know; it's my fault for doing the poll before talking to him. He should be the leader after all and I did the things in a "sneaky" way. Sorry Felo.
I should have waited at least some weeks (or when Ryu got released) before making the new poll, and even then I should have talked with Felo about alternatives... I should have. :(

Balthazar said, April 08, 2014, 07:01:29 pm
I'm all for putting the focus solely on Ryu for now!
I agree.
Title: Re: Street Fighter + Poll: Sagat spriteset: CvS, Armentis or eFeX/Chamat/Chuchoryu?
Post by: Just No Point on April 08, 2014, 07:17:19 pm
Right. The priority is on Ryu. The poll for Sagat was okay in the same vein as the thread for mini games. It's too early but it's fine. If we know which sprite sets will be used early on then work could get started by a random user to fix them. I doubt Sagat will even be the 2nd character made. There is PLENTY of time. Heck by then a new sprite set could potentially be released as well.
Title: Re: Street Fighter + Poll: Sagat spriteset: CvS, Armentis or eFeX/Chamat/Chuchoryu?
Post by: FeLo_Llop on April 08, 2014, 07:28:08 pm
--- PAUSE!!! ---

- JnP: I don't mind which Sagat is the chosen one. As you said, it's easy to do a spriteswap in the .sff(T. vincenson also told me about this earlier today). I don't see a problem if ArmSagat is the choice...even it's the terrible choice. I have took some of my time watching where are the mistakes of the sheet, and as I said, there's not just a thing of 3 or 4 sprites. The most noticeable thing are the pants.  About Ryu: I also don't mind, because CvS' sprites are fine too, and they fit here. I offered myself to fix Armentis' version and I did. This version wasn't chosen, so, what? No problem. I told Armentis I would send that fixed sheet to him, so he can upload it to his DA too and share with the community. No problem here :). But Sagat's very different. While Ryu was amazing, the one-eyed giant seems rushed. That's all.

- Titiln: You're right, it's "a bit" time consuming. I know Armentis' took his time converting(reshading) the mostly all the sprites, but forgot some things, missed lines, and better not speak about the pants. That's why I prefer CvS/SFZ3 or Chucho/Chamat's versions over Armentis'. That's all.

- Iced: Totally agree with you. I would suggest something for "maybe" next updates(Cammy, for example), but I will speak about this in a future.

- Umezono: I'm not going to be that person. As Balthazar, I prefer making a sprite from the begining than editing a previous one. I know it's more time consuming, but at least I know where are my mistakes. I can't know what's up with X's sprites, or where are the wrong things, unless I check sprite by sprite...and that's a time better spent in spriting. Because SPRITING is my field, I have had developed an eye to details. An seeing a lot of mistakes in a single sprite(imagine a full sheet) just rages my eyes. Geez, I even "rage" when I post a sprite of me and THEN I see a mistake. Even if it's a single pixel out of the place.

- DKDC: Exactly. I'm not going to stop people using Armentis', because I don't have to. Everyone has their choices. Even if I don't agree with them.

- Balthazar: don't worry :P!

- Alex S.: Don't worry. Maybe you had no time while putting the poll, that's all. I understand. Noproblems :)



Now, let's go!

EDIT(and totally off topic about Ryu's topic):
I'm making colours separations for potential characters for this project. Armentis' Ryu is going to receive that treatment too(because I LOVE those sprites he did and converted). Also, SFZ Mika, DeeJay and Gen(I know Varo_Hades did his version too). I'm doubtful about which CS should Karin receive.
Title: Re: Street Fighter + Poll: Sagat spriteset: CvS, Armentis or eFeX/Chamat/Chuchoryu?
Post by: Umezono on April 08, 2014, 07:32:25 pm
DKDC said, April 08, 2014, 07:01:08 pm
Umezono said, April 08, 2014, 06:10:36 pm
but you said you would refuse to work on it, what if nobody else has the ability to do it? then this whole thing comes to a halt over sagat.
Umezono said, April 08, 2014, 06:38:32 pm
And Id still like to know what happens if armsagat wins. Do you have a seperate person to do completations?
... Then they use Armentis' Sagat anyway ? Felo said he wouldn't stop it, only he wouldn't fix it. You're asking who's going to do if not him, but those questions are way too early here. None of them is going to get committed right now to doing stuff that won't be close to ready even a year from now.
Felo got a little emotional about his area of expertise but you're pressing it a bit too hard.
Well no I was just taking issue with this poll really. Especially when right now theres nobody to commit
Title: Re: Street Fighter + Poll: Sagat spriteset: CvS, Armentis or eFeX/Chamat/Chuchoryu?
Post by: Just No Point on April 08, 2014, 07:47:01 pm
There are a lot of potential spriters that could commit. Heck, I could work on them myself a little if I needed too. It's just not important in the now.
Title: Re: Street Fighter + Poll: Sagat spriteset: CvS, Armentis or eFeX/Chamat/Chuchoryu?
Post by: Just No Point on April 10, 2014, 05:28:02 pm
HAHA oh shit it's a tie!!!

Armentis and CVS Sagat

That's good. Means we don't have to fully commit yet :P
Title: Re: Street Fighter + Poll: Sagat spriteset: CvS, Armentis or eFeX/Chamat/Chuchoryu?
Post by: Alex Sinigaglia on April 10, 2014, 10:16:47 pm
Hahah, I was expecting that.

CvS Sagat (by Capcom)                      23 (39%)
Armentis Sagat (SvC edited to CvS)     23 (39%)
eFeX/Chamat/Chuchoryu Sagat (SF3-styled sprites with palette change and scale adjustment)    13 (22%)

Total voters: 59
Title: Re: Street Fighter + Poll: Sagat spriteset: CvS, Armentis or eFeX/Chamat/Chuchoryu?
Post by: FeLo_Llop on April 11, 2014, 11:44:12 am
Alex Sinigaglia said, April 10, 2014, 10:16:47 pm
CvS Sagat (by Capcom)                      23 (39%)
Armentis Sagat (SvC edited to CvS)     23 (39%)


So...? Now, we have two options:
- Choosing the one who would need less work(CvS/SFZ Sagat)
OR
- Making a new poll, ONLY with these two options.
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: Balthazar on April 11, 2014, 12:04:22 pm
Just go with CvS Sagat I say because probably more edits /sprite expansions of him exist.
Plus, how did we get on this Sagat poll anyway? There are a ton more characters that have perfectly existing CvS sprites to work with,
we shouldn't be dealing with these kinds of issues yet.
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: Iced on April 11, 2014, 12:10:00 pm
There is zero reason to be going over those, define targets , make those targets.
refine system etc.

This is like deciding what fireball sprite will be used before coding in any actual movement.
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: Alex Sinigaglia on April 11, 2014, 12:40:34 pm
Yeah, let's wait at least until Ryu is done.

Removing poll.
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: ink on April 11, 2014, 03:55:37 pm
Future talk...

I wouldn't mind revamping all the characters stances to be more of a SF3 animation standard. I got this idea when looking through Darkstalkers animations.

I think this would be a good place to start in giving some of these same old cvs sprites a make over. Something special for a project like this. not that its priority or anything.
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: Just No Point on April 11, 2014, 05:22:52 pm
【ＭＦＧ】Iced said, April 11, 2014, 12:10:00 pm
There is zero reason to be going over those, define targets , make those targets.
refine system etc.

This is like deciding what fireball sprite will be used before coding in any actual movement.
I wouldn't say there is ZERO reason. A lot of this project is fun future what if stuff as well. Simply discussing things that are 10 years into the future isn't going to hurt anything. It helps build the hype and could be useful to come back and read. The priority is set in stone and we're not deviating from the work task.

ink said, April 11, 2014, 03:55:37 pm
Future talk...

I wouldn't mind revamping all the characters stances to be more of a SF3 animation standard. I got this idea when looking through Darkstalkers animations.

I think this would be a good place to start in giving some of these same old cvs sprites a make over. Something special for a project like this. not that its priority or anything.
I like the idea a lot. It's always fun to have stance options!
However, would you be opposed to making any missing Ryu animations 1st? I don't think there are a whole lot. Maybe convert his gi explosion from throwing a fireball in SF3? That could be good for the super fireballs. And if you can convert this get up into hurricane kick animation
www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=yTeFELGlbdA#t=205 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=yTeFELGlbdA#t=205)

Are there any other animations we might want for Ryu first guys?
I think Felo in converting some more from Balthazar's SFA sprites. Including the most important, the focus attack which will be his alpha counter.

Then start converting any stances you wish while Ryu is being finalized

One thing that's already come from this project... it's giving the community a bunch of new material already so everyone helping should feel very proud!
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: DKDC on April 11, 2014, 05:58:11 pm
Just No Point said, April 11, 2014, 05:22:52 pm
Are there any other animations we might want for Ryu first guys?
SF4-style Shin Shouryuuken (the startup, and the massive liver punch need to be more impressive than just one still frame)
SF3-styled Tatsumaki, it doesn't need much to look close enough, I made a very simple edit on one frame for a test (the main one, hitting with the leg) (I don't have it at work, I'll post it later)
edit (not merged double-post because the option's gone) :
(http://point-b.webatu.com/img/SF3_test_1.png)(http://point-b.webatu.com/img/SF3_test_2.png)
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: Balthazar on April 11, 2014, 07:45:55 pm
A SF3 CvS Tatsumaki already exists, I forgot who did those sprites though. There are no Ryu headswaps for these yet though as far as I know.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v297/Tracks2000/Ken-SF3-styledTatsumakiv4_zpsf6fbfc8c.gif) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Tracks2000/media/Ken-SF3-styledTatsumakiv4_zpsf6fbfc8c.gif.html)
I know I asked Sean to do the landing frames, and I did a few edits to make the starting frames, but the actual kicking sprites were done by someone else.
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: ink on April 11, 2014, 08:31:08 pm
Just No Point said, April 11, 2014, 05:22:52 pm

I like the idea a lot. It's always fun to have stance options!
However, would you be opposed to making any missing Ryu animations 1st? I don't think there are a whole lot. Maybe convert his gi explosion from throwing a fireball in SF3? That could be good for the super fireballs. And if you can convert this get up into hurricane kick animation
www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=yTeFELGlbdA#t=205 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=yTeFELGlbdA#t=205)
I can do that. I am suprised is go explosion doesn't already exist.

That hurricane kick using both legs is pretty awesome. Are you talking about the hurricane kick part or just the kick before/start up?
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: Just No Point on April 11, 2014, 08:51:27 pm
Both really but mostly the hurricane kick. We can reuse his regular roundhouse if you don't want to bother with that part.
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: Alex Sinigaglia on April 11, 2014, 09:17:51 pm
Balthazar said, April 11, 2014, 07:45:55 pm
A SF3 CvS Tatsumaki already exists, I forgot who did those sprites though.
Buckus. (http://mugenguild.com/forum/msg.1851069)
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: Balthazar on April 11, 2014, 11:26:39 pm
Yes, I thought it was him! Thanks for browsing through old threads ;)
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: Balthazar on April 11, 2014, 11:36:52 pm
ink said, April 11, 2014, 08:31:08 pm
Just No Point said, April 11, 2014, 05:22:52 pm

I like the idea a lot. It's always fun to have stance options!
However, would you be opposed to making any missing Ryu animations 1st? I don't think there are a whole lot. Maybe convert his gi explosion from throwing a fireball in SF3? That could be good for the super fireballs. And if you can convert this get up into hurricane kick animation
www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=yTeFELGlbdA#t=205 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=yTeFELGlbdA#t=205)
I can do that. I am suprised is go explosion doesn't already exist.

That hurricane kick using both legs is pretty awesome. Are you talking about the hurricane kick part or just the kick before/start up?
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v297/Tracks2000/RyuSuperRecoveryTatsumockup_zpsdbdb9ea9.gif)
I have the frames of the rising kick lined up in a sheet, but I haven't gotten to converting them to CvS Ryu. I'm a little busy lately so if you want to, you can take over. I just used those SF EX Tatsu frames because they looked like the Animated Movie Tatsu the most.

If somehow you can replicate Ryu's Tatsumaki as it appears in the Animated Movie that would be amazing ;)
I would link you to the Ryu vs Fei Long fight but that's been linked many many times now and I'm sure you've seen it a ton of times already.
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: Bizarro Santamorphman on April 12, 2014, 12:48:05 am
This project seems very chaotic right now, and it seems like it's about to collapse. I mean I know this is being doing as a collaborative project and all, but it just feels so unfocused on specific goals and everyone's tossing out ideas. Nothing is getting done, and I get the feeling it's all gonna end up producing is a few slightly different stances for Ryu and a few versions of moves he already has :-\

There's way too much focus on doing over animations that already exist, when there's so, so much work to be done on the other characters. Ryu doesn't need a slightly different variation of his Shoryuken, that's really not a good use of anyone's time. Neither is fixing either of the two Sagat sheets, honestly. The CvS sheet is perfectly fine.

You guys need to focus on the barest of essentials, and after that's done you can go nuts with new stances and stuff. Right now it seems like the only thing Ryu needs right now is his focus attack animation, and that SFII movie tatsu (though that too seems more like an extra and not something essential)

I don't wanna come off as such a Debbie Downer but I'm just concerned about the way this project is going.

Just No Point said, April 11, 2014, 05:22:52 pm
Maybe convert his gi explosion from throwing a fireball in SF3?
(http://i.imgur.com/wNYSk5q.png)
this?

Balthazar said, April 11, 2014, 07:45:55 pm
A SF3 CvS Tatsumaki already exists, I forgot who did those sprites though. There are no Ryu headswaps for these yet though as far as I know.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v297/Tracks2000/Ken-SF3-styledTatsumakiv4_zpsf6fbfc8c.gif
If Ken is in this I think it'd make more sense for the SFIII style one to go with his. That way Ryu and Ken have a little bit more variety in their tatsus while still adhering to a classic feel.
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: Memo on April 12, 2014, 01:20:56 am
I agree with J's comment.

I have a suggestion too,  implement Rajaa's
Point system in the characters.
You could include it in the template whenever that gets done.
Its too easy just a couple lines of code and some numbers added
Into the sff,  the code is here on MFG in the code archive.

I honestly feel that Ryu should just get coded out now with
The system mechanics so a template can be made so its easier
To convert the other chars and then worry about the stances
And new moves..
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: Just No Point on April 12, 2014, 01:28:12 am
I have to disagree. It's following the goals fine. Right now only I am working on Ryu's sff and air with Alex's help. There isn't a whole lot other people can do currently. The sff and air are almost finished and we can start coding. Me and renzo will be heading the coding. I'll be able to try my modular coding idea to see if the community will help like I hope then too. Until Ryu is finished the spriters don't have a lot to do. It's better to make animations for the current character than start working ahead.

Now you do see a lot of what if and future talk. That's because the concept is also idea engineering. It's organic and we can have discussions about things we are not working on. Ryu and music is the only thing being worked on currently.
I'm not waiting for any animations to be made before I start coding. I can work with the sprites we have now. I just need to finish the air file.
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: Memo on April 12, 2014, 01:32:32 am
Once you get a template finished I can help with the other chars too.
Im pretty sure more members will jump on it too.

Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: Just No Point on April 12, 2014, 01:36:46 am
Yes everything depends on the template. I've stressed countless times that this will be the slowest and hardest part. Because until this becomes a reality this is still just an idea and not worth raising a lot of eyebrows yet.
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: Niitris on April 12, 2014, 01:40:56 am
The only reason I haven't been too involved in discussion is because not a whole lot has been finalized (so far it's just the process of getting a Ryu conversion which isn't something I'm involved in) and I'm not keen on pitching ideas when there isn't much to work with (I'm glad other people are though). So far, the first character isn't done. I rather wait until something basic is finished and then add things later than discuss possibilities when there isn't even a build to work with, but that's just me.

I don't think the communications been bad; it's been like what, 2 weeks? We just need something to work with and things will build from there imo.
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: Bizarro Santamorphman on April 12, 2014, 07:14:35 am
Just No Point said, April 12, 2014, 01:28:12 am
Until Ryu is finished the spriters don't have a lot to do. It's better to make animations for the current character than start working ahead.
I very strongly disagree; Ryu is pretty much done. He just needs his focus attack, and so the other spriters can and should start on characters who don't have any sprites at all. Since a part of this game is to provide the entire community with a wide range of sprites for multiple characters (if I'm reading things right), then I think that makes it all the more important to start on an unconverted character than slightly different Shoryuken. Since the coding is being done regardless of the sprite status, then it really shouldn't matter if Ryu's extras aren't done first.

Just No Point said, April 12, 2014, 01:28:12 am
Now you do see a lot of what if and future talk. That's because the concept is also idea engineering. It's organic and we can have discussions about things we are not working on. Ryu and music is the only thing being worked on currently.
I'm not waiting for any animations to be made before I start coding. I can work with the sprites we have now. I just need to finish the air file.
I guess, it just feels a bit too chaotic, even with all that in mind.

also what about that Hadoken sprite? I spent whole seconds finding that! >:[
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: Just No Point on April 12, 2014, 02:32:45 pm
You just told me not to care about extra sprites!!! >:-(
That's what I was talking about with the gi explode yes!

Basically until Ryu is pretty complete in regards to the mechanics being coded in I just think we shouldn't jump to future characters. Call this my own pessimism about the completion of Ryu if you will.

But if the spriters agree we can work ahead if that is what they wish. Prioritise the focus attack from sf4 because that one would look a lot better with the right sprites. And convert the get up hurricane kick. I can work without those but the concept won't look as nice.


Which means we need to consider who is going to be the next 3 characters to make and think of what animations they NEED
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: Balthazar on April 12, 2014, 02:55:34 pm
I have just one animation to finish for a commission, then I'll have some freetime until at least monday,
so I can get started on the getup kick (converting it from the Mr Karate sprites).
At this time I just need to make sure me and @ink: aren't doing the same thing.
Ink, would you take upon you the Movie Tatsumaki, while I do the rising kick?

Also I don't know if @FeLo_Llop: started on converting the SFA Ryu sprites of the Focus Attack (the start-up ones at least).

Anyway for now besides the rolling/rising Movie Tatsumaki and the Focus Attack animations, I think he needs at least a fresh animation for his Guard Crush (I will try ripping snaps from a video of the move from SF EX), so it has that sideways forward step in it.

He doesn't 'need' anything else besides that, though a few more converted SF3 animations might be nice to differenciate him more from Ken (who isn't even being made yet at this point). The SFA custom Shoryu and Tatsumaki I just posted to completion sake, he really doesn't need those converted.

Personally I think Chun-Li would be a good choice for a second character. Maybe even Eagle, he has CvS sprites and he's from SF1.
What do you guys think would be the best character choice after Ryu (so at least spriters can get on making more custom/needed animations for that/those characters(s) while Ryu is being coded?

Also, we haven't settled on a choice of FX, right? I think fresh ones will be really good. Diepod is really good at making those kind of fresh new hitsparks, though I'm sure a lot of other people are too. Perhaps if the skills are present in users here, we can even go with completely fresh/new sound effects for this game.
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: Just No Point on April 12, 2014, 03:04:48 pm
I like Eagle and ChunLi next. Should the third be Sagat? Ken? Birdie?

Check out the topic where I'm focussing on fx. I'd love custom sparks but I think realistically that's again extra work we don't need to do in the now.
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: Niitris on April 12, 2014, 04:19:22 pm
I feel Alex or Zangief (still not sure which we're going with) should one of the next 3. I'd be nice to have a big man that isn't Sagat (since he's somewhat identical to Ryu not to mention he's the SF1 boss) finished this early.

Once the next characters are decided, I'll see where I can help.
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: FeLo_Llop on April 12, 2014, 05:12:45 pm
I haven't started the focus, Balthazar, so it's next :).

Also, I'd vote for Eagle. Then, the others SF1 who have their sprites done(Ken, Birdie, Eagle, Gen, Adon, Sagat).

About this, I did a CS separation for Adon time ago, which I sent to @Basara. Also, have a sheet of Gen that I want to CS too, and also did some tests with Birdie, who's a MESS. Capcom did a mess with some colours in SFZ @___@!!
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: Bizarro Santamorphman on April 12, 2014, 07:26:31 pm
You guys should do Chun-Li next because her CvS set was color separated by some dashingly handsome individual and pretty much every animation one could want is in that set.

And she has a sff made with that set with so many palettes that it literally slows down MUGEN!

Just No Point said, April 12, 2014, 02:32:45 pm
You just told me not to care about extra sprites!!! >:-(
That's what I was talking about with the gi explode yes!
That's not what I meant >:[
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: SageHarpuiaJDJ on April 12, 2014, 07:34:58 pm
^He's a got a point, lol. Btw, how extensive should the Color Separations be? This may be stretching it, but I was kinda thinking having some characters have KOF13 like separations.
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: Just No Point on April 13, 2014, 01:25:52 am
For users that are primarily CS experts the color separation can really be as extensive as you wish. What you're doing shouldn't be considered "work that would be better used elsewhere". So it all depends on how insane you want to be with them I suppose!
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: FeLo_Llop on April 13, 2014, 10:55:17 am
Here's an example of what I can(and I like) do while CSing:
(http://i60.tinypic.com/2m60mrl.png)

These aren't WiPs(at least not now)
(http://i62.tinypic.com/2ihxxq8.png)(http://i57.tinypic.com/2igksol.png)

EDIT: I'm not sure if Armentis is going to revamp his Sagat sheet, but this looks SUPERawesome:

zero de armentis said, April 12, 2014, 10:03:26 pm
(http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2014/102/4/8/sgat_by_armentis-d7e68g5.gif)(http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2014/102/d/b/sagat_by_armentis-d7e75dm.gif)                    (http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2013/086/d/3/ryu__char_by_armentis-d5zgm0t.gif)
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: Balthazar on April 13, 2014, 11:28:08 am
Revamped Armentis Sagat: Sprites? yes. Animation? ...not so much :(I mean come on, what's with that shifty waist band movement and dem abs?
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: Alex Sinigaglia on April 13, 2014, 11:59:39 am
The abs have wrong lighting, the pants animate weirdly, the chest too; the left foot (in the right) moves a pixel or two upwards.
But for the size he is ok, I'll give you that.
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: Just No Point on April 13, 2014, 03:08:23 pm
Haha man you guys have some crazy expectations for this stuff. I see the animation errors but the abs aren't that big of a deal. I think that sagat looks incredible. But no where near enough obviously
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: HQ on April 13, 2014, 04:53:44 pm
just a fast photoshop cut and move edit to show what is all crooked with the animation. the stray pixels arund feet/legs can be edited easily, but going over each animation is probably a horribly boring work to do...

what I dont get with armentis' sprites is why he doesnt use the same parts over and over again. basically you could sprite the upperbody and the part of the belt as one part, the arms are added on top, legs are animated seperatly and then placed on top of part too, and face is placed on top too when doing the animations --> all on different layers so at least these jumps dont happen.
(http://s1.postimg.org/j9wqli3ej/image.gif?noCache=1397400738)
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: Just No Point on April 13, 2014, 05:10:13 pm
That's some great feedback. Let's make sure he sees it though @zero de armentis:
Armentis, I don't know how you are with feedback but I hope this is more encouraging for you than discouraging. :)
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: SageHarpuiaJDJ on April 13, 2014, 06:56:31 pm
@FeLo_Llop: Those look really cool and could really work. If it's okay, I'd like to show an example with Ryu of what I can do.
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: Just No Point on April 13, 2014, 07:01:01 pm
The sff isn't exactly finished but you can still start working to replace sprites in it if you'd like. That'd be great. Feel free to either make the color separation topic in this board or in sprite projects. If you make it in sprite projects I'll link to it in the 1st post of Ryu's thread here.
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: SageHarpuiaJDJ on April 13, 2014, 07:12:47 pm
Cool! I'll start after I finish one of my projects.
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: HQ on April 14, 2014, 01:48:59 am
also, I thought remembering kiwi, he makes pretty acurate official sprites, where you guys could take inspiration from /also concerning sizes:
http://kiwi-rgb.deviantart.com/art/Street-Fighter-1-Redux-153812835 (http://kiwi-rgb.deviantart.com/art/Street-Fighter-1-Redux-153812835)
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: ink on April 14, 2014, 06:26:46 am
Balthazar said, April 12, 2014, 02:55:34 pm
I just need to make sure me and @ink: aren't doing the same thing.
Ink, would you take upon you the Movie Tatsumaki, while I do the rising kick?
@balthazar I am having no luck with this animation...

Someone else please give it a try.
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: Balthazar on April 14, 2014, 09:53:22 am
It's Ok ink, I'll finish the lines for that rising kick, we can maybe even use the SF3 Tatsu for the rest of the movie Tatsu isn't getting made.

Also, what about palettes, and stages for that matter?
I think it would be cool if we had only 1 basic palette  for each character (or 3), but each palette would actually be different depending on what stage you're fighting in. If you're fighting in a sunny stage, both character's palettes will have a more orange-y tinted default palette; when fighting in an alley stage, the default palette would be a more desaturated and gloomy. It's basicly how it worked in DBZ Hyper Dimension:
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty
Look at Piccolo, and you'll see he has the same default palette, but it's colored differently in the sunset and sunny stage.
Since we're aiming for a fullgame here, something like this is possible, right (stage-specific palettes for characters)?
Thoughts about this?
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: DKDC on April 14, 2014, 10:29:51 am
It's simpler to apply a transparent image that darkens (or reddens or brightens or whatever) everything, and is part of the stage. I'm pretty sure that process has been done in Mugen on stages such as the (awesome) "guardian dogs temple" from SvC Chaos (boss stage of Honki ni Natta Mr.Karate and Shin Gouki).
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: Just No Point on April 14, 2014, 06:23:33 pm
I added voidednumb as a moderator because he PMed me some good ideas to help organize the board better. I have a lot on my plate already and could use his assistance there.
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: Just No Point on April 15, 2014, 03:26:22 am
@JMorphMan: Is there a certain logic/order you use when determining your float variables? I've not dealt with them a whole lot so I was just wondering if you had any suggestions for me going into this.  Organization would probably be a good word. II consider you a very organized fellow!
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: Bizarro Santamorphman on April 15, 2014, 03:30:25 am
Oh yes. I have a very well thought out system for how I handle all that

Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: Koop on April 15, 2014, 11:45:43 am
Doesn't matter which numbers you use. Just make a note of them. Also try to be conservative and don't use vars for everything.
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: [Judas] on April 15, 2014, 11:39:23 pm
Random thought for much further down the line: Noise Factory sprites are similar enough to CvS style to be somewhat easily edited into "new" characters should they ever be desired. Most KoF fangames seem to have a few of them added in, but I don't see that being anything to be concerned with at the moment. Matrimelee sprites are generally more in line with CvS standards than those of Rage of the Dragons. Random thought mostly pertaining to a design similarity I only recently noticed while researching stuff for a CFAS project that will probably never become more than me doodling stuff. I do that a lot.
Spoiler: that similarity (click to see content)
Reiji to a basic karateman that isn't a shoto, Olof to an agent of S.I.N., Angela Belti to a tribute to muscled female wrestlers like Chyna or Beth Phoenix, Mr. Jones to a Jim Kelly rival for Fei Long, et cetera. For future consideration.
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: MS_Todd on April 17, 2014, 06:34:11 am
[Judas] said, April 15, 2014, 11:39:23 pm
Reiji to a basic karateman that isn't a shoto, Olof to an agent of S.I.N., Angela Belti to a tribute to muscled female wrestlers like Chyna or Beth Phoenix, Mr. Jones to a Jim Kelly rival for Fei Long, et cetera. For future consideration.

Or Angela Belti could be a good base for Yoko Armageddon, Mika's partner and trainer, and the one of his winposes.

Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: Shao_kun on April 17, 2014, 11:04:09 pm
Guys. Have you thought of revamp the SFA sprites?
Something like this
(http://sim1.subirimagenes.net/img/2014/04/17//140417110452203150.png) (http://www.subirimagenes.net/i/140417110452203150.png)
(colour some parts of the body, add some shadows, compare the sprites of SFA 1, 2 and 3. Make them a bit anatomically correct)
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: FeLo_Llop on April 17, 2014, 11:28:57 pm
Shao_kun said, April 17, 2014, 11:04:09 pm
Guys. Have you thought of revamp the SFA sprites?
Something like this
(http://sim1.subirimagenes.net/img/2014/04/17//140417110452203150.png) (http://www.subirimagenes.net/i/140417110452203150.png)
(colour some parts of the body, add some shadows, compare the sprites of SFA 1, 2 and 3. Make them a bit anatomically correct)

Yep :P I even shown a Honda sprite with that treatment  ;). Also, thanks for share it :)
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: WooshaQ on April 18, 2014, 02:12:21 pm
I don't know if that was already proposed but what about a custom game pouse menu with character movelist and system explanation? I have a ready template for that coded by me and armor_cage.
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: Alex Sinigaglia on April 18, 2014, 02:25:39 pm
It was proposed.
In the Gameplay mechanics (http://mugenguild.com/forum/topics/gameplay-mechanics-158565.0.html) topic we already thought of using start (button) for the movelist/pause.
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: MaxBeta on May 01, 2014, 01:04:29 am

I'm just recently getting into this project...Sorry, I've been living under a rock recently.

Anyways, I wanted to ask a few things.

Have you guys already picked an art style/direction to go with this project?

Is anybody working on making art/portraits?

Can I contribute?
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: FeLo_Llop on May 01, 2014, 11:54:16 am
Yes, you can contribute :D!!

Also, I'm doing the art/portraits too. Viper, Alex and Rose in my DA is what I'm doing for portraits.
Also, the win-screen and defeated(kinda like in SF3) has no art by the moment. I was going to take them if no one apply for them.
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: MaxBeta on May 03, 2014, 12:58:53 am
FeLo_Llop said, May 01, 2014, 11:54:16 am
Yes, you can contribute :D!!

Also, I'm doing the art/portraits too. Viper, Alex and Rose in my DA is what I'm doing for portraits.
Also, the win-screen and defeated(kinda like in SF3) has no art by the moment. I was going to take them if no one apply for them.

Awesome! Since you are doing the portraits I will leave those to you so as not to create any inconsistency to the flow you've got going on.

However I am interested in doing those Win/Defeated portraits! I'll see what I can come up with this weekend and will post it here soon enough.

;)

Thanks FeLo!
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: Just No Point on May 29, 2014, 04:53:21 pm
Does CVS2 work in MAME now? I've been getting my MAME roms from *site cannot be named* and they have CVS2 on there. Some ppl in the comments says it works. Anyone know anything about that one?
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: FeLo_Llop on May 29, 2014, 11:47:37 pm
I once DLed it but I could not run it. Maybe it's my shitty system, dunno.

Well, I need to tell you all something:

- About 7 sprites to finish Viper's U2. Then it's time for finishing her SF4 and MvC3 intro, just add 12-14 sprites more. FINISHED. Once that's done, I'll paste everything in a BMP for finding colour mistakes(old colours vs new, etc) and then, I'll do the CS.


SO, WHO should be next? Maybe a NEW Final Boss(instead of fighting between Gill/Vega/Gouki/Seth/Sagat)? DR Cammy? Someone from SF1? Comission me?(Hey! I had to try!)
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: Just No Point on May 30, 2014, 02:13:26 am
I would love to commission another character but I'm not throwing anymore cash for full characters till our current commission Joe, is finished :p

Did you ever finish the needed corrections on Ryu's focus attack? ;)
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: FeLo_Llop on May 30, 2014, 10:58:56 am
Just No Point said, May 30, 2014, 02:13:26 am
I would love to commission another character but I'm not throwing anymore cash for full characters till our current commission Joe, is finished :p

Did you ever finish the needed corrections on Ryu's focus attack? ;)

Finished, and still not happy with the result. I'll post'em if someone wants to fix my mistakes U_U!


EDIT: Did the sketchy portrait for Joe ;D!
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: Just No Point on May 30, 2014, 08:08:05 pm
Can I get someone that can run mymc for PCSX2 to convert these game saves onto a memory card and upload it for me? For some reason my mymc program isn't working now. Saying it's missing a .dll file. Only difference between trying to run it now and last time is the fact that I reinstalled windows a few months ago. So I'm not sure why it's saying this.

Here's the file
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9obx337jhb8hfc1/PS2%20Game%20Saves.rar

I really need it for CvS2 so I can turn on air blocking in the game.
here is the program
http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca:11068/mymc/
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: Just No Point on May 30, 2014, 10:44:57 pm
A very nice user named ExL (http://mugenguild.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=83751) came through on this request! Thank you very much! Now I can get accurate hit properties from air blocked attacks! Among other features later!
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: FeLo_Llop on June 04, 2014, 11:56:34 am
Question; who is able to rip stages from CvS2? Not for something special at all. Just that,if we're going to use London's as Eagle stage, we would need to erase Rose, the SNK'ers, Dudley and Elena from there. I don't know if there's any way to quit them from there. If there's it would be awesome to change them, for making another Easter eggs(people from Capcom's games)

Also, for my next wip...maybe a comission thing :/. If you're ok with it, I'll make a poll with the possible characters.
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: Just No Point on June 16, 2014, 01:13:48 am
Still going to do the commission thing? (I'm going to be tapped for a while though)

I got a few brainstorming questions. Some of which are MUGEN limitation specific.

1.--Is it possible to restart a fight back at round 1 in MUGEN after you defeated your opponent?

Example: If I made Bison also have Akuma's sprites/coding etc (2 char in 1) would I be able to have the match start over after Bison is defeated to fight Akuma or would I have to code both rounds into round 1 (which wouldn't work with 1 and 5 round settings)

2.-- For story purposes would it be more fun to recreate each game (not in full, but with our system and such). Like SF1 would only have SF1 specific characters. The default options in the config file may be different as well. Biggest downside would be more balance testing for different "mechanics". The big all inclusive game would still be a thing as well. But it'd have these sub spin off games.

3. -- For after the select screen: The VS screen would stay the same select screen with character chosen. With Loading text over it. Then you'd choose your color, and super art. Then the versus screen would play. So the select screen with color selection/super art select and the vs screen would be coded into the characters. Is there anything else that could be useful during the color select and super select screen and do you like this idea?

Thoughts? Feedback?
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: DKDC on June 16, 2014, 01:40:49 am
Just No Point said, June 16, 2014, 01:13:48 am
1.--Is it possible to restart a fight back at round 1 in MUGEN after you defeated your opponent?

Example: If I made Bison also have Akuma's sprites/coding etc (2 char in 1) would I be able to have the match start over after Bison is defeated to fight Akuma or would I have to code both rounds into round 1 (which wouldn't work with 1 and 5 round settings)
Both rounds into 1 and use some crappy head-scratching tricks to prevent Bison from actually dying and then restore all the life and switch the character. Not possible to just revert the first round. It might be possible to instantly auto-kill Bison for all his remaining rounds so that it appears to skip from Bison's round 1 to Akuma's round 1, but then it would mean killing Bison before even showing anything (the "round 2" etc. announcer and such), which would require actually setting the time for those to 0 just so you can directly skip to killing Bison (too fast to see it on screen), which in turn would require coding a simulation of roundstates 0 and 1 with the announcer into the characters. Not to mention you'd have to instant-kill Bison's rounds after 1 only if it's the boss in arcade mode.
Just No Point said, June 16, 2014, 01:13:48 am
2.-- For story purposes would it be more fun to recreate each game (not in full, but with our system and such). Like SF1 would only have SF1 specific characters. The default options in the config file may be different as well. Biggest downside would be more balance testing for different "mechanics". The big all inclusive game would still be a thing as well. But it'd have these sub spin off games.
Not a problem coding-wise. It would be pretty easy, just set up a motif with its own select.def for each game, and then each game is a .bat file with the right command line to start Mugen with the proper motif. Since there's only the need to create a motif for each game, it can be pretty nice to do, especially considering there are several attempts already in the screenpack topic.
Just No Point said, June 16, 2014, 01:13:48 am
3. -- For after the select screen: The VS screen would stay the same select screen with character chosen. With Loading text over it. Then you'd choose your color, and super art. Then the versus screen would play. So the select screen with color selection/super art select and the vs screen would be coded into the characters. Is there anything else that could be useful during the color select and super select screen and do you like this idea?
It would look pretty bad and it'd be quite annoying to do, I think. And I don't think you can avoid the fade-to-blacks between each screen, so it'd be very noticeable between the select screen and the intro disguised as the select screen.
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: Just No Point on June 16, 2014, 01:44:58 am
Thanks for the feedback. What would the best approach to the color select and super select be? Just a menu before the character intros/battles? I was hoping we could use the full game aspect to give it a different twist. Darn select screen limitations!
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: DKDC on June 16, 2014, 01:49:06 am
I would suggest that instead of trying to mimic a select screen so that it looks like you're doing it in the select screen, you can create an entire new screen design that would appear after the VS screen and be coded as roundstate 0, followed by a fade out and fade in, then play the character's intro. At least that would save you part of that headache.
Actually, if you ditch the VS screen (give it a null time), you can put that in a fake VS screen coded as roundstate 0, and you could include some animation introducing the stage on a world map, classic Street Fighter style.

... Re-reading your post it seems like I misunderstood something and that was pretty much your suggestion in the first place, my bad.
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: Just No Point on June 16, 2014, 02:14:20 am
No, you read it right the 1st time. I was going to try to emulate the select screen to play through till the fight started. Your idea is much better using the versus screen and displaying the stage/world like SF games do after you pick your character. Could do the whole airplane thing, or SFA world map or anything really! So many fun options!

For the boss battles (Bison/Akuma) how does this sound? You meet the requirements to fight Akuma. So you fight Bison, once Bison's life gets to a certain point go to a cut scene interrupt ("Here comes a new challenger?" or would that not be as neat as just a cut scene interrupt by itself?) Akuma enters the fight killing Bison. His life bar is refilled and you now fight Akuma for the rest of the rounds.

This would have the disadvantage of making it so you only get to fight bison 1 round but give the advantage of it not being as complicated to produce properly and it wouldn't screw with ppl that may want to set the # of rounds to 1 or more than 3.

EDIT: Note, player 1's life would fill too. Though this could be tweaked depending on difficulty level.
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: FeLo_Llop on June 16, 2014, 01:02:35 pm
Just No Point said, June 16, 2014, 01:13:48 am
Still going to do the commission thing? (I'm going to be tapped for a while though)

Yes! Who do you have in mind?
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: Just No Point on June 17, 2014, 02:31:33 am
Well my 1st thoughts would be one of the 3 remaining SF1 characters. Geki, Retsu, and Lee. However, and don't take this as an insult You know I love you brotha! But I'd suggest you only accept commissions that are female. I'm not fully certain you'd be motivated to finish a complete male character. And to pick one you're interested in. Your work is fantastic but if you're not into what you are making your work tends to take a hit and gets slower and slower.

That being said there are a few females that need to be converted! From Ultra SF4 we still need
Poison (maybe? I'm not sure the quality of the current sprite set TBH)
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

Juri
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

Decapre (well this would be a cheap easy one!)
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

Street Fighter EX has several females
Pullum Purna
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

Hokuto/Bloody Hokuto
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

Blair Dame (maybe? depends on current quality of sprite available now)
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

Area
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

Nanase
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

Sharon
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

And possibly even Lucia from Final Fight
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

you should decide who you would like to make the most and then gauge the community to see who most people would want out of your selections and who all may donate.
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: FeLo_Llop on June 17, 2014, 11:28:46 am
Oh mangg!! Geki is one of those I would love to do someday(moveset done and all), Retsu could change from "shoto" to Shaolin(as he's a "shorinji" in the canon...let's Feng Wei-ize him), Lee however is a bit in the sleeper side, but maybe changing him into a drunken fist character could be awesome(maybe a shifting styles too? as Lei Wulong from tekken)

About the girls:
- Juri was comisioned time ago, but after my "problem" I had to leave her. It's not something I'm proud of, specially since I gave my word :(. Also, she has a fun design to work with(even those DAAAAAM details!!). It's a challenge!!
- Poison: There's something about her in the old sprites that I don't like, SFxT/SF4 design has added her soemthing new. Maybe using the old sprites for making Roxy, so we would have the Skanky Tag here too.
- Decapre: Did some tests :P.
- SFEX chicks: I hate them, except for Sharon. She could have a "Nina Williams" vibe at her moveset, turning her into something more than a Blair model swap with a gun.
- Lucia: She's a good choice, but all her moveset appears in Chun Li, Viper and some others...also, I know I could be using Kiwi's sprite as base.

In any case, if we're going for the "each game" thing, I guess Geki or one of the SF1 guys would be the choice. Mind if I change the designs a bit?(only in Geki and Lee, if case)
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: SNT on June 17, 2014, 11:45:05 am
Just No Point said, June 17, 2014, 02:31:33 am
Poison (maybe? I'm not sure the quality of the current sprite set TBH)
The existing ones aren't great quality. Dampir's sprites were good for their time, but they're a bit dated now, with a lot of the attacks being edits of Alpha/Marvel 2/KOF characters.  It's also an original moveset (Knee Press, Flash Kick, Muchiko rekkas, handcuff projectile) so if the intent is to make a USF4 accurate Poison you'll definitely need a new spriteset.

Quote
Decapre
PotS Cammy's palette split has done most of the hard work for you, it's just a matter of stamping a mask over everything, maybe spriting some of her new attacks.

Quote
Blair Dame
Her sprite set is highly complete and good quality, but I'm sort of in the same boat as Felo, screw the EX characters.

Aside from those, it could be worth considering Comeback Techniques and Guard Break attacks for any of the female characters; they'd be relatively small and quickly completed projects for spriters while they're waiting for larger jobs.
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: Just No Point on June 17, 2014, 01:08:43 pm
Quote
Aside from those, it could be worth considering Comeback Techniques and Guard Break attacks for any of the female characters; they'd be relatively small and quickly completed projects for spriters while they're waiting for larger jobs.
Well, he was talking specifically about wanting a commission project. I would love to assign spriters more stuff but the volunteer spriters seem to have dropped off to next to nothing =p
We don't even have Ryu's comeback technique finished :(

@Felo, between Geki and Lee go for Geki!
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: SageHarpuiaJDJ on June 17, 2014, 07:56:07 pm
I'd love to see your take on Geki, so I say go for him as well!
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: SageHarpuiaJDJ on June 18, 2014, 10:05:30 pm
Double post. My apologies.


I know that I'm not the greatest spriter in the world, in fact, I suck royally at spriting, but I'd really like to contribute to making some sprites for this project when my skills are better, since there aren't that many spriters in this project.
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: Just No Point on June 18, 2014, 10:12:35 pm
Don't worry about double posting in this board. And we'd love to have more spriters!
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: FeLo_Llop on June 19, 2014, 10:05:56 am
Basically, what JnP said + if you need tips about spriting, don't be shy and let me know.

An EASY way to sprite is found here:
http://2dwillneverdie.com/tutorial/resizing-your-sprites-with-nearest-neighbor/

Once you resize the sprite, you just have to do minor tweaks ;)

Some suggestions(what I do when using this method):
1- don't make the sprite 3 times bigger. I do it double, that's all.
2- Don't try making the face while the sprite is double of it's size. When you resize it, things gets messy in that area. As much, just do the lines of the eyes.

Have a nice day!!
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: SageHarpuiaJDJ on June 19, 2014, 10:21:41 pm
Thanks Felo! I'll be sure to do that.
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: City_Hunter on July 16, 2014, 07:23:06 pm
Felo maybe this could help you get some insperation for lee and Retsu

Maybe for Lee you could use Wang Jinrei from tekken
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty
I like the idea of him having two fighting stance I think the tiger stance and the mantis could go well with him

For Retsu I think this Guy could be helful
(http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll78/ultimeciaffb_2/z_Mugen/SamSho/nsfw_SSCollection/Gaira.gif)
And if I remeber there was a fighting game on the snes with a kenpo fighter

good luck
sorry for the necro
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: Alex Sinigaglia on July 16, 2014, 08:03:57 pm
Do not worry about the necro, especially if you have ideas to contribute as they are always welcome.

City_Hunter said, July 16, 2014, 07:23:06 pm
For Retsu I think this guy could be helpful:
(http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll78/ultimeciaffb_2/z_Mugen/SamSho/nsfw_SSCollection/Gaira.gif)
How?
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: FeLo_Llop on July 16, 2014, 10:46:52 pm
Thanks for your suggestion, @City_Hunter. Also, it's not a necro, since it's not 30 days old, so don't worry. And hey! you gave some ideas for their improvement!! I once thought possible bases for Retsu and Lee and I arrived to:

- Lee: Mostly Wang, Lei and Akira(VF). Anyway, about changing stances, thought in Snake AND drunk fist.  Gen already has "mantis" and "crane"(or something like that), so...went  for the "rival" styles.
- Retsu: More than him... Retsu is stated to fight "shorinji kenpo"(shaolin kung fu), so i instantly thought in adapting him from Lei Fei(VF) or Feng Wei(Tekken).

_________________________________________________ ___

Well, I haven't been so active these past 3  weeks. Something bad happened in the family, so my advances in here haven't been so much, since there was a lot to attend, and so will be in this next month(now softer things, soooo I'll relax a bit). Viper is still missing 15 sprites and onec finished those, I'll colour fix her and will make a deeper CS.

So...next wip MAY be a woman. And it seems I'll have the help of an awesome spriter :D!!

Have a nice day!!
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: SageHarpuiaJDJ on July 16, 2014, 11:03:06 pm
Is it Judas? Plz let it be Judas.

Also, sorry to hear about the family troubles. Wish you luck on that.
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: City_Hunter on July 16, 2014, 11:19:33 pm
Thx and sorry to hear about that
family come first good luck buddy
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: City_Hunter on July 16, 2014, 11:59:33 pm
Oops double post
anyways dont know if you guys saw this but maybe it could be of use
(http://38.media.tumblr.com/c5b4c0dcf5ff8364a5622718b746cb30/tumblr_n7r1xrkAKs1sse4npo1_1280.png)
Link for it : http://www.4shared.com/rar/r2qjcxQNba/stagesstreetfighteroneremix.html

hope it help
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: Drex on July 17, 2014, 12:10:40 am
FeLo_Llop said, July 16, 2014, 10:46:52 pm
- Lee: Mostly Wang, Lei and Akira(VF). Anyway, about changing stances, thought in Snake AND drunk fist.  Gen already has "mantis" and "crane"(or something like that), so...went  for the "rival" styles.
I've imagined him being a Yun and Yang's drunken uncle for a while so I like this idea a lot.

FeLo_Llop said, July 16, 2014, 10:46:52 pm
So...next wip MAY be a woman. And it seems I'll have the help of an awesome spriter :D!!
Looking and the "Characters who haven't current sheets" list I'm excited for any of the four possible females, but I'm leaning a bit more towards Juri or Poison.
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: FeLo_Llop on July 17, 2014, 01:27:02 am
Thanks for the nice words, guys, but unfortunately, it's the only unavoidable thing in life :/. Anyway, I'm fine now...So it's time to work.


- @SageHarpuiaJDJ: nope. At least, not by the moment. He has his own wips.
- @City_Hunter: thanks for the SFO remix. Even David Bazbar did an awesome work at spriting, some of them looks unfitting with other SFA/CvS style sprited characters. I thought in making a palete for Chuchoryu/Chamat's Sagat and I did it, for fitting the CvS's standar....and it looks pretty well, but we will see which Sagat will be using. As far as I know, Zero de Armentis is updating his SvC into CvS Sagat, so... *_*!!
- @Drex: About your second thinking...OR she has an un-updated sheet. Who knows!! Or the current she has is...unfitting. I won't tell a word :P, at least now :P

By the way, I'm working in Ryu's portrait and will use a Kinu Nishiimura for Chunners instead that TvC by Shinkiro. Also started a DR Cammy one too ;)

Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: City_Hunter on July 17, 2014, 01:37:34 am
cool good luck buddy
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: City_Hunter on July 17, 2014, 03:30:41 am
also just a personnal preference but maybe you could use the sf4 palletes made by C-G-U for the character here some example of is work
(http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee372/Alex_Angulo/Sean%20Altlys%20CvtW%20Ryu%20Palettes/SF41.png)(http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee372/Alex_Angulo/Sean%20Altlys%20CvtW%20Ryu%20Palettes/SF42.png)(http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee372/Alex_Angulo/Sean%20Altlys%20CvtW%20Ryu%20Palettes/SF43.png)(http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee372/Alex_Angulo/Sean%20Altlys%20CvtW%20Ryu%20Palettes/SF44.png)(http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee372/Alex_Angulo/Sean%20Altlys%20CvtW%20Ryu%20Palettes/SF45.png)(http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee372/Alex_Angulo/Sean%20Altlys%20CvtW%20Ryu%20Palettes/SF46.png)

(http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee372/Alex_Angulo/Sean%20Altlys%20CvtW%20Ken/SF41.png)(http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee372/Alex_Angulo/Sean%20Altlys%20CvtW%20Ken/SF42.png)(http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee372/Alex_Angulo/Sean%20Altlys%20CvtW%20Ken/SF43.png)(http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee372/Alex_Angulo/Sean%20Altlys%20CvtW%20Ken/SF44.png)(http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee372/Alex_Angulo/Sean%20Altlys%20CvtW%20Ken/SF45.png)(http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee372/Alex_Angulo/Sean%20Altlys%20CvtW%20Ken/SF46.png)

(http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee372/Alex_Angulo/Sean%20Altlys%20CvtW%20Haggar/SF41.png)(http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee372/Alex_Angulo/Sean%20Altlys%20CvtW%20Haggar/SF42.png)(http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee372/Alex_Angulo/Sean%20Altlys%20CvtW%20Haggar/SF43.png)(http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee372/Alex_Angulo/Sean%20Altlys%20CvtW%20Haggar/SF44.png)(http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee372/Alex_Angulo/Sean%20Altlys%20CvtW%20Haggar/SF45.png)(http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee372/Alex_Angulo/Sean%20Altlys%20CvtW%20Haggar/SF46.png)
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: SNT on July 18, 2014, 02:39:37 am
Felo's comments on Lee and Retsu have got me thinking about Geki, and potential bases for him.

Essentially we've got a fairly hollow character whose only definable character traits are a teleport and a shuriken projectile. When fleshing him out I'd like to see him as a means to explore different ways ninja are treated in fighting games as a whole. Some ideas I've been mulling over are:


I'm not saying he should have ALL of these moves, but as a character this feels like someone who can more easily dictate the pace of battle that he wants; he can get close easy with a fast moving special, or he can send the opponent away with a throw or normal. About the only thing I'd say is necessary is an izuna drop; Ibuki already doesn't have one, and that's one ninja too many.
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: Just No Point on July 18, 2014, 02:52:54 am
This doesn't take away from any of your thoughts but just for fun here is some of my concept brainstorming for the remaining 3 sf1 chars

Udon presents Geki as a tribe. Not just 1 person. So fighting an army of ninjas is a pretty neat idea. Makes me think he'd be a good mind games/trickster character.

Retsu's concept should be the typical shaolin monk. There actually isn't a straight up monk in SF. Base him off of Chinese movies where they wire jump a lot and other monk stuff.

Lee has the most to work with since he can have stuff from ChunLi, Yun,  and Yang. To set him apart it'd be neat if he was a master of external ki and inertia.
I'm imagining someone that uses other's force against them. Running through projectiles and swiping his hand around it to carry it with him and use it to enhance his attack. Think a water bender from avatar/Korra that can bend energy and inertia.
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: City_Hunter on July 18, 2014, 03:03:23 am
cant wait to see what felo come up with also Lee should have a special intro against fei long
also will their be run or dash in the game
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: Just No Point on July 18, 2014, 03:37:06 am
If Felo ever gets bored enough he could totally edit Rose into Master. Then there could be a bonus female added to the SF1 roster

Dash by default. But run is an option in the config
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: FeLo_Llop on July 18, 2014, 12:14:41 pm
Wow!! Lots of stuff, I'll reply in chronollogical order!

- @City_Hunter: I love that type of colours!! Even I'm not that good picking them in that style(I ususally put cvs inspired colours in my sprites, but that's something EASILY changeable). This is a personal suggestion. If characters are going to be "open" for people to see, we can put a "large" file for people to pick their personal choices, instead the basic we would put. Also, what JnP said of the dash-run. Dash is more SF(its classic advancing movement!), while run was introduced for certain grooves in CvS.

- @SNT: I already thought some things fro Geki and thought he could be a "chaining" character. I mean, you got the teleport, but if you press HP, it attacks one way,if it's MP, another, etc. Also, things from Raven, Kunimitsu or Yoshimitsu(from Tekken) could be pretty useful for him. Also, Jago's kick is a MUST. I thought in him from(since? I'm doubting if in this case is "from" or "since" D: ) the begining. This is something I've got in mind for him(please, don't take the names seriously):
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

- @Just No Point: Yes!! Udon shown them as a tribe, so MAYBE wee can add the "defeat the Geki!!" as a minigame in the SF1 place, being Geki the "boss" of them. For the basic "Gekis", we can use the SF1 sprites(edited :P) with that old look and the boss could be a bit different. I thought in a hood hidding his mid-upper face instead of a mask, maybe a scarf too. Dunno, I guess I'l make some draws to show here. About Retsu, he was expelled from the shaolin(or another religious order) because of his brutality. He then got calmer when he knew Gouken and etc. So yes! Basing him in chinese monks(I though Feng Wei-TKN or Lei Fei-VF) would be pretty good. About Lee...that "using your force against you" is nice, but drunken fist is better. OR making him a multi-styles character could be good too.

Now, about the SF1 "hidden" woman...I thought in that "shadaloo Rose"(let's call her Red Queen?), which is totally uncanon, so we can use her as a "what if.." as Capcom did with Oni in USF4. I already have an attack list planned for her, and wuld be pretty different to "Mistress"(Master). About that woman...I thought her being a Romanian gipsy and called "Iona", which means "amethist" in that language. Udon shows her attacking Dictator with...yeah, amethists :P. Also, I imagine her a bit more "JoJo" inspired...but I'm open to whatever, since I haven't planned things about her.


So, correct me if I'm wrong...The SF1 bunch would count with: Ryu, Ken, Lee, Gen, Mike, Joe, Birdie, Eagle, Retsu, Geki, Adon, Sagat. And the bonus would be "woman 1"(master or red queen, what you prefer).

Have a nice day!!

EDIT:
Also, suggestions for music:
- Geki's could be VF5's Aoi:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebXRntb1LwQ
- Red Queen's(Shadaloo Rose) could be VF5's Jacky:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94lTtMb2-ss
- Lee's could be VF5's Pai:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAGRyMVvUMc
- Retsu's could be VF4's Lei Fei(because of the shaolin thing)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y55i1C2DuJI
- Iona's could be T5DR's Tiamat:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9ejfSSDhag
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: Jiggeh on July 18, 2014, 02:53:52 pm
Why would Retsu be a Chinese monk? :???:

Retsu is not Chinese and Shorinji Kempo is not Shaolin Kung-Fu. It has its roots in Shaolin (hence the name), but it is a modern Japanese martial art that was founded in the mid-20th century. I'm sure there is some spiritual common ground, but as far as techniques go Shorinji seems to far more resemble karate or aikido.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SFkZaO4NL0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtmGDrtG6J8

I don't have an immediate answer to how this should translate to an SF game, but instinctively I'd look closer to Makoto than Gen. Maybe he could have command parries/reversals or something, idk.


As far as Geki goes, I'd like to just see the traditional ninja iconography laid on thick. Have him fly in on a kite in his intro, give him smoke bomb teleports, log decoys, izuna drops etc etc. Ibuki is the closest SF ever got to a 'conventional' ninja character, but even she is kind of a loose interpretation of the classic stereotypes. I would look to characters like Hattori Hanzo (SS) and Eiji Kisaragi for inspiration, or better yet, some classic (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLrYqgMZIJ8) ninja (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fiXTB4PPfP8) anime (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1shZJHB6L0).
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: Alex Sinigaglia on July 18, 2014, 06:41:19 pm
Kazuma from Galaxy Fight would help for Geki, since he is a ninja.
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: 【ＭＦＧ】gui0007 on August 03, 2014, 12:49:04 am
FeLo_Llop said, July 18, 2014, 12:14:41 pm

EDIT:
Also, suggestions for music:
- Geki's could be VF5's Aoi:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebXRntb1LwQ
- Red Queen's(Shadaloo Rose) could be VF5's Jacky:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94lTtMb2-ss
- Lee's could be VF5's Pai:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAGRyMVvUMc
- Retsu's could be VF4's Lei Fei(because of the shaolin thing)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y55i1C2DuJI
- Iona's could be T5DR's Tiamat:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9ejfSSDhag


Hey FeLo, i had some concepts for Street Fighter I chars here (https://onedrive.live.com/?cid=4F03DE6EB2EA38F5&id=4F03DE6EB2EA38F5!563), maybe you'll like it.

And i made a concept theme just for Red Queen/Evil Rose (that's what i call her) that i'll upload with the update of the SF Remixies next monday.

EDIT: I mean, today (https://onedrive.live.com/?cid=4F03DE6EB2EA38F5&id=4F03DE6EB2EA38F5!245)
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: FeLo_Llop on August 13, 2014, 05:51:21 pm
- @Jiggeh  I know he's not Chinese, I said he was a shaolin monk who was expelled from the temple. Also, I like what you say about parries/etc. Maybe T6 Jin (parry bitch) could be useful for references :D. Also, I like those ideas for Geki :D!!!(kite must be a MUST)

- @Alex Sinigaglia: I was thinking in him, but some of his movements are kinda "wuuut?". Aside that, I love his stance more than classic Geki.

- @【ＭＦＧ】gui0007 : Awesome!! I love them :D!!

Well, in a side note...I'm spriting Juri ATM, so I'll need ideas for Geki's basic movements and etc. We will be starting with his stance:
(http://i60.tinypic.com/30j4h2s.png)
Kizuna's or classic geki? I think that classic Geki could be left for a possible "destroy the Geki!!" bonus game, I mean, for his clan-mates(does that word exist? O_o?)
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: Balthazar on August 13, 2014, 06:13:46 pm
Yeah I would go with the 'A' stance, the classic one looks kinda lame ;)
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: 【ＭＦＧ】gui0007 on August 14, 2014, 12:21:53 am
Balthazar said, August 13, 2014, 06:13:46 pm
Yeah I would go with the 'A' stance, the classic one looks kinda lame ;)

Same here. :)
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: Just No Point on August 14, 2014, 05:04:42 pm
'A' stance for me as well.

Let me know when you would like feedback on his attack animations, intros, winposes, and other specific things like that.

I think this character can be built with only basic attacks/animations the ninja star throw and the teleport. So you shouldn't have to worry about spriting a lot of special or super animations unless there is something you'd specifically want to add.
All his specials and supers can use those attacks/animations in conjunction with multiple Geki's to make his trickster style gameplay.
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: FeLo_Llop on September 02, 2014, 07:25:15 pm
I...I can't find Ryu's topic D: !!!

Well, finished his Neutral Jump LP from SF3. The result is not as good as I expected, so if someone wants to fix these sprites, please, be my guest.

(http://i57.tinypic.com/2u607zb.png)

Have a nice day!!

Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: Shao_kun on September 03, 2014, 12:45:57 am
@Felo_Llop I think it's here http://mugenguild.com/forum/topics/ryu-158619.msg2005239.html#new
Really nice sprites!!
I'm not the best to say this, but... Somebody has to change his hair, and make a fix a bit his arms, also check out his face ;D
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: Shao_kun on September 03, 2014, 02:37:08 am
I tryed this:
(http://i1278.photobucket.com/albums/y502/simonrojasnoel/2u607zb_zps6eba25f8.png) (http://s1278.photobucket.com/user/simonrojasnoel/media/2u607zb_zps6eba25f8.png.html)
Editing a few his arms, a his hair(it wasn't the best), and a bit the gi
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: C.v.s The Abstract on September 03, 2014, 09:21:32 pm
i think felo had it down correctly, your shading missing ryu his rip forearm deltails
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: Drex on September 04, 2014, 04:57:01 am
Shao_kun's face is better though. Felo's face look too hard and 3rd strike-ish
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: FeLo_Llop on September 09, 2014, 11:43:46 am
Yes...face was my main problem. I like how I did the muscles in her arms. Sooooo!! Just make a mixture of both :D!

Thanks for your time, Shao!
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: FeLo_Llop on September 29, 2014, 12:57:53 pm
Q-ESTION!!!

Is possible to put an escene soon after fighting a certain enemy? or is ONLY possible when picking your character for the first time(intro)?

If #1 is possible, it would help us to make the game deeper. Example:
Rose fights Dictator and escene appears
(http://i59.tinypic.com/10zagrr.png)

Then, she goes for the next rival(whoever will be)

Thanks in advance :D!
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: DKDC on September 29, 2014, 01:34:16 pm
Easily done inside the character, just like how winscreens were done (before they were implemented in Mugen itself).
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: FeLo_Llop on November 02, 2014, 11:34:14 am
Good morning!!

Finally came up with GEKI after being invlved with the comissions(still unfinished, just gave myself yesterday), and not very decided about geki's look...I made him a bit generic, using old design as base and having some freedom for his current design. Hair is free, he has sleeves, and etc. I'm thinking that he may not be Japanese, but this could not be said...he's a ninja! secrets are his life!!

So...legs and feet were done by kiwi(old Geki's design by him). Upper torso and claw arm are done from Raven. The other one? dunno why, I thought this may look cool, having his shuriken hidden somewhere else, and being similar to Taki.

Well, enough chit-chat:
(http://i62.tinypic.com/2uik8xw.png)

Have a nice day!!

PS: What about doing topics for each game? SF1, SFZ, etc? What do you think, guys? I think this way things could be more organised.
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: Just No Point on November 02, 2014, 11:44:39 am
No need for topics concerning each sub game. Till I get finished working overtime days it looks like even the default game is stalled =p Just got an apartment too. So still getting things put up there and waiting on internet there.

I wouldn't worry about the sub games at all. Once a character is finished for the default game then we will merely change their config files for the sub games. A topic for a sub game could be made when enough characters for a specific sub game are finished. Till then the focus should stay on the core aspects already discussed.

Sprite looks great BTW I'll have to let the idea sit for a bit on the hair. My knee jerk reaction is in defiance! :P
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: City_Hunter on November 02, 2014, 06:45:31 pm
pretty cool sprite  felo
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: Bastard Walt on November 04, 2014, 12:55:16 am
yo Felo

Design is "over worked" compared to the standard "Street Fighter Archetypes" and also compared to Joe's super simple design. You really dislike just adapting the existing design to newer sprite styles that much? :S
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: FeLo_Llop on November 05, 2014, 09:55:00 am
@Just No Point: That sounds awesome :D. Also, take your time. I've changed Juri for another SF comission(I won't announce it untill I got enough things to show).

@City_Hunter: Thanks, sir!

@walt: I thought in changing the hair for a hood, for making his design a bit closer to SF1... My decission for changing his design goes that MAYBE we'll have a Geki minigame: Keeping the random ninjas with classic outift and this having a new one for making him different. Also...Birdie says Hi! Capcom gave him "lick-my-spike-" boots, put him some chains, "American Fists"(is that its name?), changed his hair and even received a new skin tone. Being a dumbass aside, I guess I'll put a hood in him instead, but keeping most of the newer design. Maybe changing the purple inner thing from his chest for something more "MK-eske", and while hood and "side-shirt" are colour separated, they could be part of the same clothing thing. I'll post a more detailed sprite when I can.

Thanks for the advices, people! Have a nice day!!
Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: Bad News GBK on November 05, 2014, 10:14:32 am
Whats with stages btw, is there anything planned and can you use the help of traditional or digital artists maybe for those?

Title: Re: Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic -
Post by: FeLo_Llop on November 05, 2014, 10:32:14 am
Bad News GBK said, November 05, 2014, 10:14:32 am
Whats with stages btw, is there anything planned and can you use the help of traditional or digital artists maybe for those?

I started making an attempt to Dhalsim, butleft it inhold, since he would not be done in a time. I'm going to center in Ryu's while advancing a bit more in X character. Maybe an update to SF2 stage, but I'm not sureif keeping the original floor(woods) OR putting the "roof" from SF3, just for saving time. Now that people is speaking about stage interactions,what about making possible doing it in a "2 floor" stage? Being HARD hitten in the left corner of the stage and ta-dah! you appear in the ground of SF1's Ryu stage!(crazy idea, I know....so I will center ONLY in SF2 update. By themoment).

Speaking of SF1's Ryu stage(same as Retsu), maybe I can convert the CvS temple for making it closer to its SF incarnation(erasing the bridge, etc).

Also,I just can work in LR...I'm not that talented to do HR stage stuff U_U