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Well, ladies and gentlemen. This is the topic where we will be discussing about characters. By the moment, Ryu is a MUST (hey! he's the main star!). By me, Rose and Viper are in, but it's up to you all.
Street Fighter
- Ryu: Official Capcom sprites: finished (+PotS completations) // Armentis' sheet: completed, but needs some fixes.
- Ken: sprites finished (CvS+Balthazar+some other people) // CSed by JMorphman. This is gonna be sexy. CS Sprites release topic (http://mugenguild.com/forum/topics/cvs2-uncropped-color-separated-sprites-joe-chunli-kyo-ken-vice-guile-kim-133668.0.html)
Street Fighter Zero/Alpha
- Rose: Sprites revamped by me. More than complete. CSed by Drex. CS Sprites release topic (http://mugenguild.com/forum/topics/-rose-final-148280.0.html)
- Sakura: Sprites finished (CvS+PotS), but she received new stuff in SF4.
Street Fighter 2
- Chun Li: She's a MUST in a SF. CS Sprites release topic (http://mugenguild.com/forum/topics/cvs2-uncropped-color-separated-sprites-joe-chunli-kyo-ken-vice-guile-kim-133668.0.html)
- Guile: Sprites completed (CvS+some people's completations). Also, CSed by Jmorphman. CS Sprites release topic (http://mugenguild.com/forum/topics/cvs2-uncropped-color-separated-sprites-joe-chunli-kyo-ken-vice-guile-kim-133668.0.html)
- Vega/M. Bison (Dictator): Sprites finished (CvS+PotS completations). davismaximus CSed him. CS Sprites release topic (http://mugenguild.com/forum/topics/color-separated-sprites-dr-doom-felicia-m-bison-and-guy-150662.0.html)
Street Fighter IV
- C. Viper: Sprites by me. She is missing her intro from SF4, MvC3... and Ultra 2. MAYBE her stand will receive a fix later.
- Gouken: Sprites done by CvSNB, currently being revamped by Benhazard. These guys rock!!
Street Fighter 3
- Alex: Armentis converted all the sprites of this guy into CvS.
- Oro: Armentis converted all the sprites of this old fart into CvS (as he did with Alex).
- Q: Ink reduced the palette and resized him to fit in with the rest of the SF cast (CvS sprites); good starting point for editing/fixing. Release topic (http://mugenguild.com/forum/topics/q-cvsish-spritesheet-incomplete-158857.msg1945071.html;topicseen#msg1945071)
Final Fight
- Guy: He got all his sprites done in SFZ, some were updated for CFJ. And PotS did some completations. davismaximus CSed him. CS Sprites release topic (http://mugenguild.com/forum/topics/color-separated-sprites-dr-doom-felicia-m-bison-and-guy-150662.0.html)
- Cody: Same as Guy, except completations and etc.
Characters who haven't current sheets:
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty
- Geki (SF1)
- Joe (SF1)
- Mike (SF1)
- Retsu (SF1)
- Lee (SF1)
- Delta Red Cammy (SFII)
- El Fuerte (SFIV)
- Rufus (SFIV)
- Abel (SFIV)
- Juri (SFIV)
- Hakkan (SFIV)
- Decapre (USFIV)
- Poison. Yes. THAT Poison. (Final Fight)
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Also, I'm not sure if he got CSed.
:o!!
(http://i.imgur.com/m0zg29H.gif)
Yes, he got CSed. (http://mugenguild.com/forum/topics/color-separation-patch-p-o-t-s-s-guy-156621.0.html). Amazing work by davismaximus.
The roster, for now, lacks of bosses. For a first alpha I think it should be at least one boss, and The Dictator is my top suggestion :P Also, I think that at first, the roster should be filled based on the types of characters (shoto, grappler, charge, mix, etc). For a grappler I suggest Zangief, and to fill the roster with no characters from Street Fighter 2, I'll go with Charlie for a charge character.
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Cammy could part of the SF2 reps? ;) Also, I'd like to nominate Haggar for the Final Fight representatives. He's kind of an iconic character in their series.
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I put my vote up for Skullomania (Street Fighter EX series; CvS sprites made by Sean Altly).
I also really like Guile, but his sprites aren't that good, there is no good CvS sheet available for him.
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oh yeah c.viper ( ^__^)
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Guy has some other sprites that need to be colour separated:
(http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2013/261/0/8/guy_focus_attack_by_artchell-d6mrdwc.gif) by Artchell and (http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2013/254/d/e/guy_s_palm_strike_updated_by_callmemra-d6lyszd.gif) by CallMeMrA / Rolento. Who is up for the task?
Will Gill be in the roster?
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Ah! I remember that armentis has an unfinished wip, Ibuki.
Ibuki > Oro :D
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Ibuki > Oro :D
Late April Fools joke but a good one.
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- Chazzanova: Thanks!! I thought I saw that, but didn't know if it was finished. I was, then, totally wrong. That CS is awesome!! Also: Oro >>>>>Ibuki >:( . About the "type" characters, I totally agree with you, mostly because these could be usedas template for future "similar" characters.
----->¿Biólogo Marino?¿En serio?¡¡Yo soy científico marino!!
- T. Vincenson: I know Cammy is from SF2. But her sprites are, by the moment, SFZ(Killer Bee). I know Chuchoryu's making a DR Cammy but, I saw it and...no, mi amigo. Let's see if she gets developed in a future ;). About Haggar, he's one of the mains and never missed a Final Fight!
- Balthazar: I know he's awesome and all, but SFEX is not part of the canon(well...when that mattered to Capcom?LOLOLOLOL), but aside him, Kairi and B. Dame...there are no more EX characters(if not counting Garuda and Shadowgeist, who are still in their current polygon rips). Anyway, people can vote. Also, I agree with you about the Guile thing, but keeping the CvS sprites would save us a lot of time.
- Alex: Thanks for noticing those. About Gill, he's a boss and he deserves his spot here(as Sagat, Dictator or etc)
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On street fighter ex: we've been allowing it this whole time. Some of the game's mechanics are inspired from it too. I know it's not canon but this is a tribute game to sf. And well, as such I think we should be able to use stuff from the ex franchise because this is fan made and for once we don't have to worry about technicalities like who owns sfex characters and such. The only limitation we have is the lack of sprited characters.
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Oro >>>>>Ibuki >:(
----->¿Biólogo Marino?¿En serio?¡¡Yo soy científico marino!!
Nobody loves Ibuki :(
Aclaro que no soy biólogo, es mayormente por la serie Seinfeld, donde en un capítulo George Constanza se hace pasar por biólogo marino. Serie altamente recomendable, por cierto! :P
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-JnP: About the SFEX series, yes, it lacks EVERYONE from it(except those thee), so...we can stick to those OR making a sprite-founding(ha! new concept!) from various spriters. BUT not fully done sprites, I think the "by parts"(as in Rumble Fish) could save A LOT of time to spriters. X makes a head, Y makes a torso, etc...it was nicely done in RF. Also, I noticed that some SFZ characters are done like this at some parts(re-using certain zones of their own bodies, coming from other sprites). Just look at this Adon...
http://spritedatabase.net/files/arcade/633/Sprite/Adon.gif
I noticed that while CSing him(unfortunately, I don't have the sprites anymore. MAYBE Basara still has them). Some underknees, gloves, feet, heads...are repeated time after time!!
So, I thinkthat the correct way to do this related to SFEX/4/1 could follow this:
· Outlining from videos/rips.
· Sprite above(layers) for each part: Layer a has gloves,layer B has heads, etc...and they does't need to be done time after time...since a lot of them are repeated.
- Chazzanova: Coooorrecto. Le echaré un ojo :)!
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If this project starts making progress I'd be willing to commission some sfex characters. It's been forever but the three I'd like most would be Garuda, D Dark, and the kimono chick (I forget her name, looks like kasumi from kof (Hokoto?))
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^ I agree, those are probably the most interesting characters unique to that series :)
Wasn't Sean still asking for commissions? I know he needs the money...but he's been pretty inactive lately, so who knows.
+yeah I do very much agree we shouldn't shun SF EX chars, we shouldn't care about canon!
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Thanks for the answer Fel.
Also.. Just another question, will there be some sort of a "boss tier" characters per SF series? You know, Sagat, Dictator, Rolento, Gill etc. to be assigned as either hidden or unselectable AI characters? (Perhaps they have separate, unplayable AI only versions that are quite powerful and some of them got exclusive CPU moves etc.)
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and the kimono chick (I forget her name, looks like kasumi from kof (Hokoto?))
Her name is indeed Hokuto and she is a very unique character in terms of gameplay
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and the kimono chick (I forget her name, looks like kasumi from kof (Hokoto?))
Her name is indeed Hokuto and she is a very unique character in terms of gameplay
Actually pretty unique. Don't know if I want to say the same about her sis though, unless they both have some differences in their style (Haven't played SF: EX 2 for a long while).
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Thanks for the answer Fel.
Also.. Just another question, will there be some sort of a "boss tier" characters per SF series? You know, Sagat, Dictator, Rolento, Gill etc. to be assigned as either hidden or unselectable AI characters? (Perhaps they have separate, unplayable AI only versions that are quite powerful and some of them got exclusive CPU moves etc.)
Yes, so far the idea is to go through a multitude of bosses. Some will have ai only perks.
Boss order would be fight some SF1 character then Sagat
Fight SFA characters then fight Bison
fight some SF2 characters then Balrog, Vega, Sagat, Bison, Akuma
fight SF4 characters then Seth
fight SF3 characters then Gill
afterwards maybe Pandora
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Thanks for the answer Fel.
Also.. Just another question, will there be some sort of a "boss tier" characters per SF series? You know, Sagat, Dictator, Rolento, Gill etc. to be assigned as either hidden or unselectable AI characters? (Perhaps they have separate, unplayable AI only versions that are quite powerful and some of them got exclusive CPU moves etc.)
Yes, so far the idea is to go through a multitude of bosses. Some will have ai only perks.
Boss order would be fight some SF1 character then Sagat
Fight SFA characters then fight Bison
fight some SF2 characters then Balrog, Vega, Sagat, Bison, Akuma
fight SF4 characters then Seth
fight SF3 characters then Gill
afterwards maybe Pandora
I see, must say it is quite a creative order of fights, not to mention they're also nostalgic throwback to their respective original game source material. I am also hearing of Pandora since the last thread, she's going to be the game's sort of "universal" end boss, yes?
Also in the Alpha/Zero representation, is R. Mika still up in the air being still considered, or perhaps time for male characters like Nash/Charlie, Gen etc.
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that character/boss fight order is way too long
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If this project starts making progress I'd be willing to commission some sfex characters. It's been forever but the three I'd like most would be Garuda, D Dark, and the kimono chick (I forget her name, looks like kasumi from kof (Hokoto?))
Meet me halfway. (Except for D.Dark...)
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Chun-Li's description is incomplete compared to everyone else. Anyone's conversion we're going to use and was CS done on her? (I can do the latter if that hasn't been started)
Also, I don't think Zangief is "mandatory," but the game would feel like something's missing without him (unless Sagat is taking the huge man slot and Alex is the token grappler).
Actually pretty unique. Don't know if I want to say the same about her sis though, unless they both have some differences in their style (Haven't played SF: EX 2 for a long while).
I'd love to have Hokuto included, but priorities. :(
Her sister is Nanase; she uses that power-pole thing (don't remember her moves too well, but I know she was quite different from Billy Kane).
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I do think that the fight list(sagas-bosses) is long. I don't know if there's a way to do speciffic-fight in mugen, but I think it's, by the moment, impossible(Ryu-Sagat/ Chunners-Dictator, etc). I somewhere read that it could be possible with a HUGE .sff which involves all those characters' sprites...but that's BIG enough to crash most of mugens, so, not an option.
The character list that I put is a BASIC thinkg, maybe for a short beta...Don't worry if you can' find whoever character at it ;)
About Chun Li :P. Sheet complete by Capcom, FeLo_Llop, Viofitz, TMasta(?), etc. It's as Jmorhpman's topic :P (also, he forgot my name in the read-me T_T!!)
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Thanks for the answer Fel.
Also.. Just another question, will there be some sort of a "boss tier" characters per SF series? You know, Sagat, Dictator, Rolento, Gill etc. to be assigned as either hidden or unselectable AI characters? (Perhaps they have separate, unplayable AI only versions that are quite powerful and some of them got exclusive CPU moves etc.)
Yes, so far the idea is to go through a multitude of bosses. Some will have ai only perks.
Boss order would be fight some SF1 character then Sagat
Fight SFA characters then fight Bison
fight some SF2 characters then Balrog, Vega, Sagat, Bison, Akuma
fight SF4 characters then Seth
fight SF3 characters then Gill
afterwards maybe Pandora
While the boss gauntlet idea is cool it definitely presents length issues
I think its better if you randomize between SF1, SF2, SF2 for sub-boss, and then SF4, SF3 or even randomize between the two of them for final boss.
Also have you guys considered Skullo or Kairi in this since they have complete sffs/sheets
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Skullo is great but I am not sure if the Kairi sprites are quite on par.
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Decapre needs to be in, we just need a spriter to
re sprite her claw and her attacks.
Skullo is a must!
Seth also!
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Maybe CvS the Abstract will be done with Kairi before we get to a point we want him in. I figure once the template is finished the characters will go in an order of priority. The way I have it imagined in my head multiple users could work on several parts of pretty much any character while the main focus chars are in the works.
As for the boss length. I guess I'm the only person that enjoyed playing KOF in single all mode. I like fighting every character in a game so that list of boss fights wouldn't be too lengthy for me. It'd be simple to cut bosses down. Sagat - Bison - Seth - Gill. Put a few other characters between each boss fight from their respective series and you have a much shorter arcade mode run.
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Decapre is a bad character and would be a bad inclusion, we don't need to add her just because she's 'new' and the hotness right now.
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Well he do has a point, Decapre looks a nearly similar to Cammy and she wears a mask to cover her face. It's kinda a bit too easy or maybe a bit hard but it could happen in the future.
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Wouldn't be the toughest to do. But all her new specials and potential new basics/poses would have to be sprited as well. I don't think there is any SF character not being considered from SF1-4 and EX. It's just that she would probably be like a really low priority made after a really good cast was already going strong.
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Decapre is super easy to do. I did a palete for PotS' Killer Bee with the looks of her. There's the problem with the "spikes" in her legs, since I wanted to put her panties in a different tone.
About the SF1 characters, I thought speciffically in Lee and Geki, having even a movement list with chains and etc. But prioirty are those who have their sprites finished(CvS, SF3, SFZ, etc).
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Felo, are you sure Armentis converted Alex in CvS style? I can't find it anywhere on his deviantart...
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It was a color reduced set of SF3's Alex. If it counts, some of the spec ops chars do this as well (power gear/alex, andore jr/hugo, g project/urien). They even cut anim frames in some cases to match the CvS/Alpha frame count.
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I remember Marancv doing that, not Armentis.
/
Looks like even Armentis made the CvS conversion: http://mugenguild.com/forum/topics/cvs-alex-sprite-pack-zero-de-armentis-kicks-ass-113915.0.html
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I am down for Decapre or another doll I think it would be cool to have that option but I agree there are way better choices. Would be cool tho
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About Chun Li :P. Sheet complete by Capcom, FeLo_Llop, Viofitz, TMasta(?), etc. It's as Jmorhpman's topic :P (also, he forgot my name in the read-me T_T!!)
No I didn't! >:[
- FeLo_Llop for sprite edits
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some of these minor guys from sf universe for add up reference of there existence.
(http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110124170335/capcomdatabase/images/thumb/d/db/Fallen_Balrog_-_Cannon_Spike_Vega.png/129px-Fallen_Balrog_-_Cannon_Spike_Vega.png)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v363/ernart/20080709162943_111_1.jpg)
(http://www.vgmuseum.com/end/arcade/c/sfa3bad-6.gif)
(http://www.vgmuseum.com/end/arcade/a/mshvsfcy-6.gif)
(http://www.vgmuseum.com/end/arcade/a/mshvsfbis-4.gif)
(http://imageshack.com/a/img34/1068/4hcg.jpg)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Yz8J1rVJBg
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Please, don't request characters to be done. The PRIORITY now are those who have their sheets finished. Not wishlists of characters.
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ok dude just add them as references in case for other stuff.
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Skullo is great but I am not sure if the Kairi sprites are quite on par.
Yeah, I'd say it's best to wait for CvSNB to be done with his Kairi set before including him.
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Still even when they are finished, they might not be the quality we're looking for. Remember Benhazard revamping CVSNB's Gouken sprites? He wouldn't be doing that if he didn't feel like they needed the extra work put into them.
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I revamped some of his Asuka sprite as well because it was needed.
If "finished", Kairi would need a revamp.
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- T. Vincenson: I know Cammy is from SF2. But her sprites are, by the moment, SFZ(Killer Bee). I know Chuchoryu's making a DR Cammy but, I saw it and...no, mi amigo. Let's see if she gets developed in a future ;).
I thought you were doing a Delta Red Cammy set in between stints of Viper?
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In the brainstorming thread we began talking about the next batch of characters after Ryu.
My 1st thought was 3 characters. Balthazar suggested chun Li and Eagle.
I just had another idea though. What about making the stars of each game? Ryu, Guile/Chun Li?, Alex, Abel
Buckus is starting Abel for his project. Do you guys think if we all combine our sprinting resources we could get Abel coming along? I'm not on a good enough level to make good outline only bases but I can do flats and some shading that might need retouching.
Thoughts?
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I'm still iffy about using sprites from SFA :P And getting the 'heroes' done first might leave some 'holes' later on.
Hoping all of the SFA chars get redrawn to CvS is kinda...well you know.
Either Chun-Li or Eagle sounds good to me, Zangief too (though Eagle is very different from either as well).
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JNP, it's Abel. :P
I would go for Chun Li, at least her spriteset is complete, we just have to add some other sprite to fit in the game.
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I don't mind using the sfa sprites. I'd prefer new characters get made that have no 2d sprites than spend time converting sfa sprites to cvs style.
We can replace the sfa sprites later if it gets to that point.
What do you be by the heroes might leave "holes"?
Even without doing all the heroes I think it'd be useful to help buckus with Abel. That's a character that might get more community involvement.
Could be ChunLi, Eagle, and Abel? All these characters would by cvs and Abel has quite a few unique things like rolls and a special throw.
Though it's up to the spriters of course. We have Abel's 2.5D sprites that we can trace. After Ryu I can try a bit myself. I'm not suggesting anything that I'm not willing to do myself. Except music. I have NO experience there :p I'm still trying to think of an answer to what I want to hear!!!
I don't know what you mean Alex! I said Abel the whole time!!!
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I'd say making first those from SF1 who have their sheets complete(Birdie, Gen, Eagle, Adon, Sagat, Ken), thn those from SFZ, SF2, SF3 and FF. Last bunch would be people from SF4,, missing from SF1 and 2 from EX, but this last bunch would be optional: our priority are those who have their sheets done.
About what Balthazar said about converting the SFZers...I have a small idea, but I don't know if you all fell it good. They have a BIG light area(first skin/clothe tone), then a BIG interlude area, and then smaller 3rd and 4/5th colour(skin or clothe). My idea is, reducing the 2nd flesh/clothe colour to simple pixel interludes(as in CvS), giving more priority to the third, as in CvS.
The problem here comes...because light source is not the same. Usually, the leg who's advanced has the second light colour in flesh or clothes. This is what I'm talking about:
(http://i60.tinypic.com/2cem839.png)
So, basically is a spriting problem. It's very noticeable in Juli/Juni, R. Mika and others
About the Cammy thing: I did some "sketchy sprites" for a .sff placement, but still on hold. I first want to finish Viper, who I'm hating right now ò_ó.
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Getting all the current already made SF1 cast might be fun. But for interest reasons maybe we should do 2 chars of interest and 1 less popular?
There is a number of user asking for Chun Li so I feel we should follow community demand. Eagle is in SF1 already.
Who is a character that isn't very popular to balance out the awesomeness of ChunLi and Eagle?
Birdie would meet SF1 criteria, introduce throw and charge character game play options. No one likes him but Diepod and Jango who has made new animations for him as well (Jango by commission)
I don't think we need any new frames for Chun Li. Like everything is made already isn't it? JMorphMan has the bestest Chun Li ever ready for the poaching.
I like your idea to convert the SFZ sprites Felo, but it's still a lot of work that could be spent elsewhere.
Is everyone okay with Chun Li, Eagle, and Birdie?
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I'm down with Birdie, though some of his animations are a bit choppy (at least as far as my memory recalls).
Preferably he could use a few more inbetweens, but we'll discuss that later.
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I know that there are a lot of stuff that should be done before things like that. But for some of these cosmetic things I really want to let the spriter work on them if they WANT to do it. Otherwise all you guys are getting is assignments. That's why I've been letting the spriters work on unimportant things.
Basically, yes. If someone wants to make some in betweens or something for fun that's okay. I just think we need to probably moderate it a bit more. JMM had a point but a happy medium would probably work best so that you guys still have the freedom to take it upon yourselves like that.
@Felo_Llop:
@Alex Sinigaglia:
Are you guys okay with these 3 being next?
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Birdie(even "jumpy sprites) is awesome. I never liked playing with him, but his design is certainly STREET. I'd choose him because of it AND the grappler+charge type.
So, my vote isa yes for Chunners, Eagle(already CSed) and Birdie(I'll have to rush it!!! NYAAAHHHHH!!!)
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I have a suggestion: Try altering the palette a bit for Birdie. Not drastically, but enough to make the CS easier. That what I'm doing with Jin. Hope it helps.
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Are you okay with these 3 being next?
Yes, I am.
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I have a suggestion: Try altering the palette a bit for Birdie. Not drastically, but enough to make the CS easier. That what I'm doing with Jin. Hope it helps.
I did it two days ago. Now he's green *o*!!
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I tried my hand at it as well, what do you think (the one on the right obviously, left is the original)?
(http://network.mugenguild.com/balthazar/misc/BirdieCvScolorsTest.png)
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I think those colours are awesome, Mr. Balth!!
The green I'm using for Birdie is clear enough for making an easier CS, so colours could be easily findable. I'll post a sprite later.
Also, here's a graphic explanation of the degradation shading from SFZ into CvS:
(http://i62.tinypic.com/33df1ux.png)
That sprite was converted in less of 3-4 minutes. Of course, Honda is not a guy with lots of details(as Mika is, as example)
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Damn FeLo, that looks really good, I'd say that just about kills the need to redraw him to CvS, this edit rocks!
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Yeah that looks quite impressive! I'm having Easter and my sister in law's birthday today and working again tomorrow. If any of you guys want to make a thread for the next 3 characters discussing movelist and what animations HAVE to be made for them that'd be great!
ChunLi will be the toughest movelist wise. She has a ton of variety!!! I guess for her list all of her moves from all games and we can discuss them. Pretty much everything should be in JMorphMan's ChunLi
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I tried my hand at it as well, what do you think (the one on the right obviously, left is the original)?
(http://network.mugenguild.com/balthazar/misc/BirdieCvScolorsTest.png)
I have this weird feeling to try CSing once. This was my scrapped attempt on Birdie:
(http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt270/carlvic/birdie_zps478a72c5.png)
I don't know how relevant this is to the topic but meh.
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Though the seperation itself is nice, I think seperating the left/right arms is going overboard (and you'll have issues when mirroring the sprites) and you pretty much killed the contrast of the colors. Still, we can use this at least as a reference point so it's not a complete waste ;).
ps. FeLo I LOVE that SF2 Movie outfit on E.Honda :rolleyes5:.
That conversion is amazing, and it works really well. And only 3/4 minutes for a sprite? Wow!
Maybe you could get commissioned to do some of those conversions for a whole character! I'm down for it ;)!
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Hey guys, Ink just released this
http://mugenguild.com/forum/topics/q-cvsish-spritesheet-incomplete-158857.msg1945071.html;topicseen#msg1945071
Maybe someone can complete it
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Ok, so I have something for the spriters. Since I'm a lazy bum and don't feel like putting the time into making outlines for chars, what about something about this:
(http://i628.photobucket.com/albums/uu7/mrbuckus/abelsizetest_zps30bde6c1.png) (http://s628.photobucket.com/user/mrbuckus/media/abelsizetest_zps30bde6c1.png.html)
What happened is, I took rips from Abel, draw over parts with a single color with transparency, resize and reduce color (skin/clothes are 5 tones, hair is 4, belt/black leg part is 1). Tested with a few and the results aren't too terrible. I plan on building the beta sff/air files with these. Question is: can spriters work with something like this? Don't know how difficult it'd be, but details are still recognizable (to me at least), sizing is close (Abel is 6ft, 6, Ryu is 5ft, 9) and in general a good base to work with. Whacha think?
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I'm still iffy about using sprites from SFA :P
Getting any SFIII-derived characters to mesh well with the others is gonna be the much harder task, I think. SFA chars only need their normal 83% reduction to fit in pretty well with CvS chars, but SFIII will need palette changes (and possibly reshading? IDK for sure though), more complicated resizing, and reducing their animation frames. It's doable but I think even so they'll stick out a bit more than the SFA ones!
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Why are you quoting that old answer of me, I was already pretty much sold on the edit FeLo did of E.Honda!
That Abel looks...alright. Mostly, except for the head, that still looks very '3d-ish' to me.
And since it's the SF4 model, notice how his arms are like two times bigger then Sean/Ryu's?
They were damn steroid addicts in SF4, they looked horrible, horrible!!
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They were damn steroid addicts in SF4, they looked horrible, horrible!!
OFFTOPIC:
Glad I wasn't the only one to feel like that. There's no way Ryu and Ken were 150-160 lbs,
being built like that! They both should've been at least 180lbs
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My goal is to make a beta sff that's salvageable for spriters to work with. If the resized model works for you guys, it works for me.
Here's other quick results of outlining:
(http://i628.photobucket.com/albums/uu7/mrbuckus/salvage_zps925ce6b1.png) (http://s628.photobucket.com/user/mrbuckus/media/salvage_zps925ce6b1.png.html)
First one is reduced color model, second is quick grey outline and third is quick colored outline.
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Why are you quoting that old answer of me, I was already pretty much sold on the edit FeLo did of E.Honda!
I wanted to get the ball rolling on a discussion about fixing up SFIII sprites in a similar way because they need it more than SFA chars! (well, not like Felo's method I guess but instead a few steps one could take in combination with a more drastic method that requires spritework)
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Hmmm.. Is there a chance that a certain Saikyo-ryu practitioner might show in this game?
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Buckus: I'm not on the level of Balthazar and others but I think the colored outline is really good for that! Maybe you just need to tweak some outlines a bit so he won't be as bulky when you're tracing the "sprites"?
Vinceson: If the project can keep momentum and progress the goal is to slowly convert all characters so yes indeed he does have a chance!
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Sean is down to help out. He sent this message. Figured it was worth seeing if there is any interest here.
I thought about maybe doing one of those donation pools and seeing if a bunch of people would want to throw in on a full sprite set for a SF1 character for the game, like Joe or Retsu. I've kind of always been interested in spriting one of them but haven't had the time due to commissions and work. Just out of curiosity, how much interest do you think there would be in that?
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I also thought about Geki, Retsu, Lee r Joe(I'm kinda meh about Mike :/ ).
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Yeah Mike = Boxer so we really don't want a new spriteset for him. We're already using SFA Birdie, right? We're not making a SF1 Birdie.
Joe is such a lame and generic design, he probably needs the most brainstorming done, coming up with a good moveset and style.
He's a kickboxer, right? There's not really a kickboxer in SF (besides Muai Thai guys Sagat and Adon, but we can come up with cool stuff for Joe I'm sure!)
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I had a design idea for Joe, where he was wearing the red pants and white shoes, but he also had taped hands (standard for a kick-boxer) and an unbuttoned black or grey shirt with a "Joe" name tag on it, like a mechanic or janitor would have. Also, in going with the trend set by Birdie and Adon, his hair would be exaggerated, with one or more large spikes sticking out in front, kind of like my character Tristan's hair (it looks similar to Yang's hair but is blonde of course). His moveset in SF1 is so generic that as long as it fits the "kickboxer/street fighter" mold, any moveset would work for him, so it would allow for a lot of creative freedom.
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I thought something like Ramon from KoF(even he's wrestler, some moves of him would fit Joe IMHO). Also, Tekken's Bryan is a kickboxer too. Shen Woo would be a good choice for punches too. Also, not sure about the shirt.
- Balthazar: nope, not making a SF1 Birdie. And no, Mike is not Boxer from SF2. Mike was once the boxing champion and Bison/Balrog never been, he was banned because of his brutality.
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Hey guys, Ink just released this
http://mugenguild.com/forum/topics/q-cvsish-spritesheet-incomplete-158857.msg1945071.html;topicseen#msg1945071
Maybe someone can complete it
Perhaps this didn't get enough attention, so I'm quoting it.
Are we going to add Q too? I think we should.
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I felt like the shirt made sense. If you look at the way Adon, Birdie, and Joe were updated for later games, it was never just a straight respriting or anything. Their designs got extra details, flourishes, and exaggerations. Something about the unbuttoned mechanic's shirt feels right to me for Joe.
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the exagerated hair i feel would make sense, make him more unique, also wrapped up hands and stuff, but the shirt im not sold on. I like the idea of arm tatoos for him or something like that, makes him more urban.
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I feel like the shirt will make him look too generic, like a thug you'd fight in Streets of Rage.
Some samples, different design choices will probably be good before we decide on it and send out money your way :P
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Hey guys, Ink just released this
http://mugenguild.com/forum/topics/q-cvsish-spritesheet-incomplete-158857.msg1945071.html;topicseen#msg1945071
Maybe someone can complete it
Perhaps this didn't get enough attention, so I'm quoting it.
Are we going to add Q too? I think we should.
We should link the thread in the 1st post. We can link the resources we will use for future characters there.
Q is on the table along with all the SF cast
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Edited the first post.
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I feel like the shirt will make him look too generic, like a thug you'd fight in Streets of Rage.
Some samples, different design choices will probably be good before we decide on it and send out money your way :P
A shirt with red pants would remind me of one of Steve Fox's designs from Tekken.
I'm surprised Iced didn't bring up Red Ghost from Final Fight Streetwise.
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I think the idea of a shirt would be cool for him but since people are feeling that's a generic look how about a hoodie with the sleeves ripped off? The hood doesn't haven't to be on of course outside of perhaps intro's and as far as a move set he could be similar to zack from doa with punishing leg kicks and kicks to the mid section while also having more kick boxer style grapple attacks. Either way if a pool starts I'd kick in for either joe, retsu, or lee in that order 8)
an idea of what I mean about the hoodie
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty
(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQsQvyfoHf3VVVcGxpMmykS0T5CXo35EMR9ooMbu_k8g02IRQOs)
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I don't hate the hoodie idea. I'd just have it up during his intro and have him drop it for the fight.
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yeah that's what I was talking about looking forward to your take on the character also does he have any voice clips? if not that could be an opportunity for someone to do an original voice over
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MAYBE D.D AND ROOK WOULD BE A GOOD debut too street fighter
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Joe like...this?
(http://i62.tinypic.com/905z5y.png)
Sprited from KoF's Ramon. I also hate the shoes I did, I totally suck at designing those D:
CvSNB: I did sprite bases for those two long ago. I also thought a background story for the game involving them too
(http://i61.tinypic.com/ayvtrn.png) (http://i60.tinypic.com/18hm6q.png)
Have a nice day!
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(Joe) Not too bad looking, though I HATE the sideburns in the 2nd image :P
And ofcourse him being a kickboxer, those kung-fu-ish hands won't suffice, he should probably be a 'fisted' guy.
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hoodies have sortof become a design shortcut for urban, even dead or alive used it on their last "new" character.
(http://i62.tinypic.com/905z5y.png)
this isnt bad at all, but he could use spikier hair and hand wrappings , like sean said. No one else into tatoo sleeves I see. :P
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Wouldn't the tattoos be difficult to sprite?
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The hooded designs looks great felo! I think tattoo's might be unnecessary for him but spriter's choice of course. Maybe a design for his pant's might work but I think he's off to a great start. I think sean's hair idea should be kept as well
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Once I posted Joe's I immediatly thought in black flames for his trousers, aside a flame or a red line in the hood.
Also, tattoos are sometimes difficult(unless being simple lines, of course)
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Sean did it pretty well with CmPunk. Im suggesting it because Ive seen him doing it well before. Wraps on his arms and tattoos going up would look more urban and street than a hoodie.
(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b293/seanaltly/Other%20Stuff/mugen048.png)
(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b293/seanaltly/cmpunk2b.png)
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I just Googled CM Punk to see what the actual tattoo was supposed to look like, and this makes a pretty convincing case that it's not possible to sprite a tattoo decently despite Sean's best efforts.
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Yeah, tattoos are a huge pain. They just end up looking like a mess of pixels. A single tribal tattoo on the shoulder or back or something wouldn't be too difficult though. I'm working on some samples of what my Joe would look like, but I'm having trouble with the head/face.
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I don't think he should have any sort of shirt or jacket either. Basically shirtless with red pants. Pants can have all the bling, chains with locks, fire, whatever it needs. I'm with ICED in the tattoos/urban look. Can make the tattoos simple designs.
I take it we've decided Joe over Geki? :P What kind of collective price range would this need Sean? I assume if it's something you want to make it gets a bit of a discount?
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(http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y407/ohmystromboli/Joe3a_zps94f7fcd1.png) (http://s1273.photobucket.com/user/ohmystromboli/media/Joe3a_zps94f7fcd1.png.html)
This is what I've done. I hope Felo doesn't mind me using parts of his head, credit to him of course. Base was a non-stance Joe Higashi sprite (silhouetted and drawn over). I did use Joe's hands and Kyo's shoes, but I've done that in the past with my sprites so it shouldn't be a surprise. I'll mess with them and add some tattoos. I also wanted to note that if we went with the shirt or hoodie, there could be a design on the back.
I'd think at least $300, which depending on how many people chip in shouldn't be hard to get to. I've been getting $350 to $400 for sets lately, so that's a bit lower.
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I think he looks pretty dope!! Hopefully he gets to be a full character
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Those look awesome. Still preferring the one without the jacket. $300 isn't bad at all!
Perhaps you should make a topic in Sprite Projects to garner more attention and potential investors. I figure more users go there than here. We can link to it from this board too. Make it TOTW.
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Tbh I think he looks pretty rad without the jacket, that could even work!
And yeah man I'm down for chipping in no doubt.
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Don't worry about the head, I was going to tell you before I saw your sprite.
Also, the hooded-not hooded version needs a BLUE hair for SUUUUPAHHH Franky (One Piece)
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maybe one of you guys should do a poll? That might help to draw contributors as well
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(http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y407/ohmystromboli/Joe3a_zps94f7fcd1.png) (http://s1273.photobucket.com/user/ohmystromboli/media/Joe3a_zps94f7fcd1.png.html)
I'd always pictured Joe as a scruffy but cerebral Tyler-esque sort of character, so I'd prefer topless in combat, but wouldn't be against a shrugging-the-hoodie-off intro.
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Tyler Durden?
That would be a good direction for his archetype.
pitt fighter\fight club\odd anarchist type
Even the oddjobs and stuff fit him. Any chance of giving him a palete separated unshaved face?
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(http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y407/ohmystromboli/Joe3a_zps94f7fcd1.png) (http://s1273.photobucket.com/user/ohmystromboli/media/Joe3a_zps94f7fcd1.png.html)
This is what I've done. I hope Felo doesn't mind me using parts of his head, credit to him of course. Base was a non-stance Joe Higashi sprite (silhouetted and drawn over). I did use Joe's hands and Kyo's shoes, but I've done that in the past with my sprites so it shouldn't be a surprise. I'll mess with them and add some tattoos. I also wanted to note that if we went with the shirt or hoodie, there could be a design on the back.
I'd think at least $300, which depending on how many people chip in shouldn't be hard to get to. I've been getting $350 to $400 for sets lately, so that's a bit lower.
I'll definitely contribute to this. The shirt option allows for Shen Woo alt. Hell, Shen might be viable for base usage on a lot of stuff. The exaggerated hair spike rules. I can't help but wonder how he would look in his not-quite-a-bomber jacket from the game intro. Possibly for an intro or winpose.
The Tyler Durden angle is a grand idea. Since FF Streetwise's fight clubs are obvious nods to the film and Ghost is an homage to Joe, why not look to him for ideas?
And for that matter, shirted Joe should be CSed in a way that allows a Kyle Travers palette. Yeah.
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Decapre needs to be in, we just need a spriter to
re sprite her claw and her attacks.
Skullo is a must!
Seth also!
Decapre's been mugenized before. I think by Pullo. I've got her on a different computer if it's offline now.
That mugenbarkawhatever guy who did all twelve dolls was of awful quality, but (while I may have these backwards) Pullo did Fevrier, Noembelu, and Decapre, while Aoba did Fevrier and Xiayu, and they were all quite nice. His/her Decapre was basically just a Cammy/Talbain mashup, though.
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Decapre's been mugenized before. I think by Pullo. I've got her on a different computer if it's offline now.
Not with her USF4 moveset though, so I don't think those versions matter, there's still a big need for sprites.
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(http://blog-imgs-32-origin.fc2.com/j/a/m/jamugen/December.png)
*shrugs*
Looks close enough to at least be a basis for edits to me.
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Well yeah, but that's only the stance, it's only changing the face to a nearly flat mask. The moves are pretty unique and can't be edited from Cammy.
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About Joe
JNP
I wonder if Joe should be more inspired by his look and name. An average Joe
Like maybe he has a wife and a 9-5 office job
So like he kinda has to sneak in street fights
So he could have an intro where he comes in with a business uniform and brief case and sits it down-takes off suit
A winpose where he gets a phone call and has to tell his wife he's working late
Winpose where he jumps behind something as his wife drives by in a car
Iced
i just saw this
its great
actually
i wouldnt make him a desk jockety
he seems like hes too bad for desk work
but something like having a workshit wirth a name tag
even sitting on a warehouse dock would fit him
winpose where a powerlifter drives by and he jumps on it, riding it off
fight club is pretty good inspiration
you could have him beat his own face in to psyche up
the fight club is even more perfect considering you could have him fighting someone else in the intro
or wasted drunk on the floor
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Seconding Iced's version. It's a step away from the street punk archetype and it shoves the movie reference in Streetwise in your face a bit much, but it works as long as his fighting style keeps the psychotic aspect of Tyler Durden (which is still very street punk-y, knee-to-the-face, jumping-whip-kick -y, I mean).
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(http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y407/ohmystromboli/Joe3a_zps94f7fcd1.png) (http://s1273.photobucket.com/user/ohmystromboli/media/Joe3a_zps94f7fcd1.png.html)
I really like the first and Third ones.
What the were joe's moves in SF1, anyway?
Can we use anything from that?
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Sprite sheet that seems to be everything he has in SF1 : http://www.spriters-resource.com/resources/sheets/22/24046.png
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhblNJtB1y8
Pretty much his only recognizable move is the jumping, back spin kick. The one that Cody took over as his Crack Kick (command normal) when they decided to use Cody instead of Joe in the Zero series. His basic kicks seem kickboxing inspired. That crouching punch could be turned into some boxing-like kidney punch/body hook.
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Well then giving those as basics would make since, it's only like 5 attacks anyway. that crouch is cool too, the only character I can think of with a high crouch like that is jill. makes him kinda interesting.
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The OP makes no mention of Dhalsim as a SF2 rep, but there was a mention of a Dhalsim stage in a different topic - is there any dhalsim out there that would be a nice base to work from?
I know the Marvel Vs series have a few frame of his that are unique to them, such as (air) throws where he seems to whip the opponent with his spine/abs (since he's not using his hands for that, could be a nice attack to use to break out of a block, even if it's not nearly as elaborate as what's planned for Ryu on that particular category), not to mention his huge Yoga Flames (nice EX version material).
Between SF2, Alpha series, CvS series, SvC Chaos (had one original super IIRC), SF4 series (in the very least his ultras), and maybe SF EX series (I'm not sure about his specific moves from there, I recall at least one or 2 had his hands growing gigantic, which felt a bit stupid and best left out of an adaptation), there's a lot to work with IMO.
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I dig Joe #3.
#1 is too bland, he needs something around the shoulders.
Also, my schedule just opened way the fuck up, if you guys need some help with sprites I'm game.
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If he's going to have a top on, I'd prefer 3 or 4. 2 feels kinda generic to me, and 1, 3 and 4 could have a shirt separated out on the palette anyway.
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(http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y407/ohmystromboli/Joe3a_zps94f7fcd1.png) (http://s1273.photobucket.com/user/ohmystromboli/media/Joe3a_zps94f7fcd1.png.html)
This is what I've done. I hope Felo doesn't mind me using parts of his head, credit to him of course. Base was a non-stance Joe Higashi sprite (silhouetted and drawn over). I did use Joe's hands and Kyo's shoes, but I've done that in the past with my sprites so it shouldn't be a surprise. I'll mess with them and add some tattoos. I also wanted to note that if we went with the shirt or hoodie, there could be a design on the back.
I'd think at least $300, which depending on how many people chip in shouldn't be hard to get to. I've been getting $350 to $400 for sets lately, so that's a bit lower.
Sean, I'm snatching one of these for my upload;
just thought you should know.
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I like the shirtless with muscle shirt potential in color separation too.
What is his fighting style? What new can he bring?
I think he should be a very in your face high risk/high rewards character.
Some ideas (not everything here is meant to work together)
Cody steals his kick?! Well he steals from Cody!!! Taking Cody's V-ism blocking technique. For those unfamiliar this allows him to autododge up to 5 consecutive mid range attacks.
Parry- I could see this one character using this technique
HIT ME armor: all basic attacks have a sort of super armor. Not conventional, what it does is when Joe is hit and goes into his custom state you can press a certain button and he shakes off the attack and comes back with one of his own. Interrupting his vet hit animation.
If we don't use Loona's idea from mechanics to let characters do supers at the cost of their own health without needing a super Joe may be a good character to use this mechanic. Doing the moves without having the energy to do so.
Stances similar to teken characters. Like a wiley stance where he hops back erratically, or one where he's punching himself.
His taunt should injure him but build meter quick.
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I like the shirtless with muscle shirt potential in color separation too.
What is his fighting style? What new can he bring?
Looks like his top half will be based on Joe Higashi and the bottom on Kyo, so I guess it'll depend a a bit on possible animation that'll make those work together, along with that kick Cody borrowed.
Grounded, Tekken-ish, maybe more than a nod to characters like SFxT's take on Bryan Fury, perhaps?...
If we don't use Loona's idea from mechanics to let characters do supers at the cost of their own health without needing a super Joe may be a good character to use this mechanic. Doing the moves without having the energy to do so.
At one point there was talk of "grooves" based on each of the major SF iterations (Alpha counters for the SFA guys, parries for the SF3 ones, focus attacks for the SF4 ones, etc...), but the issue came up that there was nothing for SF1, as it was pretty barebones - snce Final fight was originally going to be a SF1 sequel, it could be a feature for character specifically from that game and maybe FF originals (but hey, I find it stupid that Haggar uses up HP in MvC3 when he's got a power bar fight there... he could spend a lot less than he would for a super, and the move can be a little less invencible than it was in FF).
Edit:
Iced has mentioned on countless occasions that Ghost from FF Streetwise is basically Joe - this is the only footage I managed to find, but he barely lands an attack there - still, stances and stuff: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=u6u5JLCMI28#t=779
The Capcom wiki says this about the guy: "The Ghost - is the third much tougher pit fighter Kyle faces in a fight arranged by Vito. The Ghost uses a Muay Thai style, has a low kick attack which cannot be blocked, and his speed is lightning fast. If the player blocks too much, Ghost will grab Kyle and knee him twice in the stomach and once in the face."
An FAQ has this to say about him:
"GHOST
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Attacks:
1) Elbow Strike: Unblockable. Ghost does it once in a while.
2) Low Kick: Unblockable. Ghost kicks your legs so you can't block.
3) High Kick: Blockable. You're most likely to see it one to four times during a fight.
4) Grab: Unblockable. Ghost grabs you and proceeds to punish you with a series of knee strikes.
Ghost has good attack, backed up by above-average speed. He moves faster than other pit-fighters, and is quite difficult to track with all the dodging. Ghost will try to come closer to you whenever you try to regain some breath, but once he gets in front of you, he will perform some moves and dodge to one of the sides, making him annoying to hit with combos starting with Strong button.
You should try to throw a few jabs to stop him, then grab and throw. His attacks don't give that wide of an opening window for you, but you can always block and counter. Specially his High Kick, which comes quite often, is easy to spot and counter at the exact time."
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Just to be clear, I'm not frankenspriting him, so Joe Higashi and Kyo's moves don't need to be considered. Felo drew the face, and the hands and feet are from Joe and Kyo, but I drew everything else. So yeah, just wanted to make sure that was clear.
Joe is a kickboxer with a bit of street fighting thrown in. I have some ideas for a moveset already but obviously that's open for discussion. He's not gonna have a rising knee or anything like that, I want to differentiate him from other muay thai characters like Higashi and Adon. The spin kick he has in SF1 can be a command normal. I'll make some sketches for some move ideas I have and put them up.
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Bryan Fury roundhouses all day.
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Bruce Irvin is probably a better Tekken source than Bryan. He's a true kickboxer and has a more exaggerated moveset. Bryan was 'Let's take a handful of Bruce's moves and throw them on this evil cyborg guy'
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yeah I'd say bruce from tekken and zack from dead or alive have a decent array of kick-boxing attacks that should help differentiate him from others like joe/adon/sagat and so on
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I don't think Joe should be centered around "true kick-boxing moves" with a lot of technique.
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no not move for move just to be used for inspiration
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Basically a kickboxer that went full fight club street fighting later on would be a good mix. I feel his attacks should be quite erratic for the most part.
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I don't think Joe should be centered around "true kick-boxing moves" with a lot of technique.
Agreed.
What do you feel about this:
in order to convey his speed a rushing move where he ducks a fireball first and then grabs (hcb punch, if you press kick he knees, if you press punch he headbutts)
A rushing multi punch kind of move like what Decapre got, just rushing and brawling, for his qcf punch
A auto guard into hit counter move ( hold pose then strike) where if he hits the opponent blocking he gets damaged, although slightly
Crack shoot, sliding kick attack with three heights, based on cody move.
In order to remember his bases his block and stuff like that could show his influences, with him blocking with his leg.
Taunt could be him punching himself and gaining powerbar over it while losing a pixel or two of life per second of taunt.
i dunno how many hyper moves this game going to have, but i would include something that damaged him, like, headbutting the opponent , climbing them up, jumping to the far wall and then back with a elbow, ending with both in pain on the ground.
Backyard wrestling mixed with kickboxing, something that a brawler that had to give up the ghost ended up using instead of stuff with finesse.
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If going for brutality, an eloquent "kick'em while they're down" would do wonders, as would a number of moves that would could lead to that (sort of like Mila's Takedown in DoA5, only Joe would be sure to remain standing up, or close enough to that).
On the broader topic of characters - adapting Rajaa's Dhalsim, yay or nay?...
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something like this?
(http://i.imgur.com/01lh1Xb.gif)
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that would be really cool for him
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something like this?
(http://i.imgur.com/01lh1Xb.gif)
That and/or stomping on them like in Yamazaki's super.
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I'm thinking he should have kicks and punches that show he has great training, but an erratic behavior and approach to these moves, like they were warped by fight club-ing, so I wouldn't insist on headbutts everywhere and the likes. The ducking dash could be in a weird crooked position, but a perfect ankle-breaking, posture-smashing, sweeping kick would follow (as an alternate to the grab and knee bash). It might be too much if all the variants are nuts.
Ruffian Kick-inspired move works if the kicks themselves have animations that show he got violent and not right in the head with pit fights.
The rest can work. Like the elbow drop super.
Something like Tekken's Ultimate Tackle series, yeah. Yamazaki's kicks... Only if there's just a couple, he shouldn't be completely insane like him either.
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The way these comments make me think of it, his defense and weaker attacks, used to try and open up the opponent, should have a trained/refined look to them - but their follow-up should be the brutal stuff once he's made sure he can land them.
For a throw, for exmaple, the part involving grabbing the opponent and tossing him to the ground should look well-practiced, but that happens afterwards, while not Yamazaki-insane, should display a blatant disregard for the opponent's well-being.
Also, he should know better than to lead with his head - bad idea, gives the opponent an easy target and messes up his hair.
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I'm with DKDC. He started out with a foundation for kick boxing but it's been twisted by brawling. I like the wolverine type attack. Could be D,D+P
He should also have a leaping pursuit like Darkstalkers with U+K while they are downed. It can be a more typical leap attack like where he lands with his knee on ground and fist. No damage comes to him if he hits or misses. Just free damage on knowckdown if it connects. He'll need extra help like that since some of his attacks cause himself damage.
Did anyone like any of the 3 defensive/offensive ideas I listed earlier? Cody V-ism block or parry or that counter attack while being in hit stun?
Example of counter attack out of hitstun would be to press SP while in hitstun and he flashes red once makes crazy face and comes in with a haymaker.
Might have to play with timings and or meter usage if the counter techniques prove too overpowered but in most cases the opponent should be able to block before getting hit or jab him back out of it again.
Iced: 3 supers per character ala super select like SF3 EX attacks as well
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The backlash counter sounds like a cool move but I'm worried it would be too easy to use it by mistake when it isn't warranted. Like, canceling a gethit that's about to end anyway, when the opponent wasn't going to keep attacking, and you're getting punished for it (either it has a cost, or it simply makes you even more open if the opponent waits it out, watches you swing big, and demolishes you with their own counter). If it has a too strong drawback, something like that would force you to get extremely technical and cautious with him - which doesn't sound like it makes sense for such a character. Even if it's given a big incentive one way or another.
And if it doesn't have a drawback like decreased defense at the very least, then it's just overpowered compared to everyone else. And a decreased defense would just make him even more vulnerable to a counter, forcing him to be even more cautious. Power consumption, I don't think that's an end-all solution to not making moves overpowered. Here again, if you use it by mistake, you're getting countered but you're also losing powerbar. That's just too dangerous. So I'm not really seeing a way to make it work out.
A variation of super armor building up on that idea would make more sense, I think. Like, he has a special move that looks normal, you can counter it, he's going to get hit, but he'll grit his teeth and get right back in your face and finish the move he started anyway. Similar to a super armor (that does lose some life), but with a flinch animation that goes right back into the end of the attack.
Cody's V-Ism block would just be a dodge-counter special. The ducking dash type of move would give the same result, I don't think replacing the block with a swaying dodge is so interesting, gameplay-wise, it sounds like fancy eye-candy that tries to look fun but doesn't actually help. Was it any interesting for Cody ? I never played him in V-Ism (I never played V-Ism)
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He's the easiest to beat Bison with while in V-Ism because the super psycho crusher goes right beside him while he blocks with no chip or push back.
I was thinking if it got used that he should have 2 variants of the dodge. One that rocks him left and one that rocks him right so it looks like he's swaying between their movements and not just going the same way. Kind of like Steve Fox has in TxSF.
The attack back while being hit could be done by pressing punch and kick of the same strength too so you don't do it as accidentally. The only time you use those are for taunts, custom combos, and throws so it's not likely you'll mess up with that.
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I think Joe should not be sticked only in Kickboxing. I think a bit of MMA would do him some good.
Also, Bruce Irving and Zack practices MUAY THAY, not Kickboxing :P
---Bryan Fury does kickboxing :P!
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I just love those brutal roundhouses; suggesting Bryan (or Bruce, for that matter) for moveset reference would be dumb. Joe strikes me as more of a dirty, brutal, rugged fighter than a highly trained kick boxing savant. Of course, I also like the idea of mixing trained movements with brutal follow-ups.
Ground pound should definitely be more Yamazaki in nature than the wolverine gif; Sean already sorta has that move. Maybe even something like Vanilla Ice's super from the Capcom JJBA game?
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I like the wolverine type attack. Could be D,D+P
Raw?
On a downed opponent?
Follow-up to moves that knock opponents to the floor (sweep, throw(s), etc...)?
Throw follow-up to close-up heavy hits, not unlike the ability to use throws from combos like in Final Fight?
All of the above?
Speaking of throws, the arena brutality angle makes me think of modifications to the throws when the victim's against the wall, like in 3D ighters like DoA - not typically SF-ish, but Joe's from the days long before SF had settled on any notion of "typical", so there's stuff he could get away with to make up for his more grounded style.
He should also have a leaping pursuit like Darkstalkers with U+K while they are downed. It can be a more typical leap attack like where he lands with his knee on ground and fist. No damage comes to him if he hits or misses. Just free damage on knowckdown if it connects. He'll need extra help like that since some of his attacks cause himself damage.
Sounds good to me - and sort of also plays into the 3D fighter thing, in a way - not so sure about his attacks hurting him, at least when he's got enough power bar not to need that.
Did anyone like any of the 3 defensive/offensive ideas I listed earlier? Cody V-ism block or parry or that counter attack while being in hit stun?
Example of counter attack out of hitstun would be to press SP while in hitstun and he flashes red once makes crazy face and comes in with a haymaker.
I tend to prefer the idea of a counter out of heavy enough hitstun (wouldn't want to to work off something fast like a jab) being a throw, like DoA's holds. Maybe paying for it with some power bar, so it can't be infinitely abused - if the opponent's confident enough to try a heavy swing at him, he'll take it for the opportunity to be up close enough for a throw - which in turn can put the countered victim on the floor for some further punishment.
It would be, of course, impossible against projectiles.
Some games have characters that get to teleport out of the way when hit, sometimes for an attack that might not hit - Hanzo and Galford in some Samurai Shodown games - and those attacks are free since they're not guaranteed damage. With power bar to spend there's room to make this work, I think - DoA has ways to get away with it despite like a "currency" to spend like a power bar, so I figure taking the damage, having the reflexes to execute the counter and paying in power bar should be fair, give or take some tweaking in the amount used up.
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Alright, three supers then
giving up the ghost
- the before mentioned hyper where he leaps off and elbow drops from the wall
desperation versions, giving up the ghost gains body stomp after
Emperor's knee
he performs a tiger knee type move, followed by a kick at the apex to throw the opponent down
desperation does more hits and a second knee strike
Driving up the stakes
he does a beer drinking anim, gains trailing afterimages and can combo easier after
The ghost one would damage him, the stakes one would just add speed and make his combos easier and the emperor one would use his classical training.
Alternates:
A leaping attack where he drives the opponent head down and proceeds to stomp them
A counter type could be fun if it really pressed how fast he could be
About the mounting and punching, that could work as a simple throw, unless you want him to be more of a grappler, having situational throw moves.
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In a bit of a hurry so only skimmed through the thread - apologies if I'm repeating stuff. Just some random unorganized thoughts on Joe.
Personally I imagine Joe more as kind of a greaser/rockabilly type guy than some modern urban street punk. As such I really liked the sideburns, and I prefer the bare upper body to the shirt or hoodie... I don't mind the idea of tattoos but agree it'd be tough to do well. I think suspenders could work well too, with tanktop/t-shirt colour palette options.
If you're looking for reference for kind of a less refined or orthodox street fighting style, Miguel from Tekken certainly comes to mind before Bruce or Bryan IMO.
As far as his moveset goes, considering his back spin kick is pretty much his one recognizable attack, I think it should definitely be a special move and not just a command normal.
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I agree with Jiggeh on Joe's personality, or how it should be.
I also think we should use some Brain moves for inspiration for his main kickboxing moves, but indeed he should also have those dirty takedowns and other things we discussed.
The spinning back I wouldn't mind as a special normal or command normal, we can do better coming up with new moves.
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Maybe perhaps Joe has both a special or super that's somewhat a chaining special combinations that could be inspired by KOF's Angel? If he hits an opponent with a starter, he or she cannot get out of the hit state unless either the player decides to cutoff from inputting the specific button controls or just not fast enough on entering a command.
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KoF Ramon too :P
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Hey, that's originally a Bloody Roar system with Long, Shen Long and Uriko >:(
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his spinning back kick should also have wall bounce to setup combo's and maybe he could mount the opponent on the ground like ralf.
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Just a question on Joe's Spinning Kick; Is there a plan for it to have an assigned specific strength (Be it Light Kick to Hard Kick) to function like a projectile killer special like Dictator's Psycho Vanish or Gief's Banishing Flat? Or, will it end up as a projectile deflect move, as if Joe Spin Kicks back an opponent's projectile?
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... Why would a spin kick have any effect on projectiles ? Gief has something like that only because he needed something against projectiles (beside a Double Lariat that doesn't move), and Dictator has it because Psycho Power. None of that fits Joe.
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yeah I think he should only be able to duck under projectiles
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He could have a sway move like Dudley, but instead of swaying backwards he would sway very low, so he can dodge projectiles.
Ofcourse he should have a strike move out of that sway for dat counter attack.
I don't know shouldn't we move this to a newly made Joe thread? It's not like we're derailing anything since it's the char thread, but it's all about Joe now, it might be handier if we have all this Joe idea enginneering in a Joe only thread.
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I thought about splitting it earlier. But didn't see a huge need to do so since we're still stuck on Ryu and know who all will follow him.
I guess we should list all the options being discussed for his fighting style. Once that's completed we can make a new thread and a poll with those options to finally decide which way he should go.
What all styles do we have to work with that's been suggested?
Kickboxing
Based in kickboxing+Tyler Durden
Based in kickboxing+MMA
Based in kickboxing+Greaser/Rockabilly guy
KickBoxing+Angel/Bloody Roar combo system
Was that all?
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I had a way different idea of what the character would be like than you guys, I guess. I really just thought of him as a kick-boxer/street fighter who was just an average "Joe," if you will. I'm not sure where the stuff about hurting himself or being a Tyler Durden-esque crazy person came from.
You should probably split this into its own thing, but I should also note I haven't secured funding for the sprites yet, so we probably shouldn't get too far ahead of ourselves.
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I really just thought of him as a kick-boxer/street fighter who was just an average "Joe," if you will.
He must be like this :P. Remember he won the American Martial Arts Tournament one year(and next he was defeated by Charlie N.).
Also, I'm with Sean in this...if we are going to speak about Joe, let's make a topic for him and leaving this one for POSSIBLE characters.
Got a suggestion, but most of you will try to kill me. What about Full Dictator? I mean, he with ALL his Psycho Power, as he was in SFZ, but with some distinctive for him. I thought him floating all the way, cape, purple glow in his eyes, smile, etc, so, we may be using CvS sheet, just editing the legs for making him looks "hanged", and those things. The main problem here could be...KICKS...how to make those and looking good? Editing from Magneto's(for example) OR as Balthazar suggested to me, erasing his kicks. Making him a more BOSSY character, with a lot of projectiles, teleports, etc(kinda like a hateable SNK boss).
- Psycho Shot: his projectile from SFZ. NORMAL DICTATOR could not have this one, for accentuating the differences.
- Psycho Crusher: more flashy. Maybe this one could be purple with black,dunno.
- Double Knee Press: I doubt about this one. I mean, is one of his trademark attacks from everytime, but why not making this a bit different? Once the second kick is about to hit, rival defense could be activated-defense break(for more cinematic action :P) and then Dictator cam have a change of strategies here:
· Teleport: at rival's back, for attacking while he/she s off guard-
· Air(diagonal) Psycho Crusher: from rival's back, too.
· Teleport+Throw(from rival's back)
· Teleport to the other side of the screen.
- Teleport: Everyone knows how this goes :P
- Head Press & Somersault Skull Diver: It could have another variation: if rival blocks it, Dictator kinda appearing FROM THE FLOOR(kinda like Cars in JoJo?) and grabbing rival's throat, into that shot.
- Ultras/Superlevel(whatever):
- Psycho Punisher
- Atomic Psycho: do you remember that short movie of SF4 where Dictator creates a Psycho Bomb which "destroys" him after being kikkosho-ed by Chun Li? Exactly. That.
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If we're talking about a boss Dictator, I'm a big fan of his Marvel 2 Knee Press Nightmare as a low level super. He teleports out for a second, then comes back as three Dictators standing on each others' shoulders filling the screen with pressing knees. It's a good 'what the fuck am I seeing' move that bosses should have.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jFh5hlOpmw&t=45s - link because YT code can't adjust start time
Also, so long as we're talking about a boss mode Dictator, make him unable to be knocked down; give him the SF2 movie levitation as a wakeup animation, or better yet as a burst special like SFxT Ogre's Ancient Power.
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Yes, one of my fave SF characters being discussed. I like the idea that CPU Dictator would look and behave like his Alpha/Zero chunky self, complete with his walking animation being hovering. Will he also retain that air unblockable full screen big ass Psycho Crusher?
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He could have a sway move like Dudley, but instead of swaying backwards he would sway very low, so he can dodge projectiles.
Ofcourse he should have a strike move out of that sway for dat counter attack.
I don't know shouldn't we move this to a newly made Joe thread? It's not like we're derailing anything since it's the char thread, but it's all about Joe now, it might be handier if we have all this Joe idea enginneering in a Joe only thread.
Steve Fox has a move like that, could be used as a base if we could get clean screencaps
Also, Bruce Irving and Zack practices MUAY THAY, not Kickboxing :P
---Bryan Fury does kickboxing :P!
Um, Bryan's original moveset was taken from Bruce.
edit: WOW THE ONE TIME I RELY ON AUTO-MERGE AND IT'S GONE
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For Joe: The Fight Club stuff came from trying to expand him a bit more and from his role as Ghost in Final Fight Street Wise. @Sean Altly: Since this is a character that you are wanting to do and as such giving a discount. How much control over the character do you wish to have over him? Before the Fight Club stuff started I was in the same idea of "Average Joe" like you. The Fight Club thing really makes his moves write themselves. But if we're going with "Average Joe" can you describe a bit more in detail your vision for him? So we can get on the same page with the kind of attacks he'll have.
We got to come to a compromise in these things :P I know you have not received any money for him yet but I assumed we should establish what we are paying for 1st. Get a solid idea of the character and then promote the crowd funding. Also I totally asked if you wanted to make a topic for this ages ago and got blown off >:-[
For Bison: I'm actually thinking there should be 2 Bisons for the game. The fat version (SFA) and the skinny version (CVS2) to represent the different Bisons in the story. And yes, I was intending on bosses to have boss versions when fought by AI. Mixing stuff from MVC into fat Bison might be a good idea to differentiate him more from skinny.
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Aaah.
Anyhoo, coincidentally I made this edit, as I plan also to do some mods for POTS' Dictator later on; To give him the former glory of his Alpha/Zero days with his walking animation being hovering off the ground etc. This is also based on Fel's description of him in CvS aesthetics.
(https://31.media.tumblr.com/723337e4bb10ca5193c7d874f9be07e0/tumblr_n4fnsoZXQY1rhgf3lo1_250.png)
Left: Hover backwards
Right: Hover forward
For cape, thorough and clever editing maybe required or totally complete spriting for it from scratch could be the only way.
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Community projects have concessions and partnership to get created, its normal you havent gotten any money considering there hasnt been a consensus on what is wanted yet.
Street fighter characters work as archetypes, so that means deifning mannerisms and all kind of things that will influence on what spriting ends up being done. Specially on a community project, there are more cooks in a thing like that.
Having a spriter on board is great but its going to have to be geared towards whatever the whole group decides to do.
Do share your idea tho, what would an average joe archetype be like?
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Also, Bruce Irving and Zack practices MUAY THAY, not Kickboxing :P
---Bryan Fury does kickboxing :P!
Um, Bryan's original moveset was taken from Bruce.
They just share 3 attacks :P
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T. Vinceson: I thought spriting the cape from Magneto's.
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I think there's enough there to have joe to be a typical streetfighter with actual kick boxing techniques with kind of a mean streak in him or some of his attacks. As far as Dictator I think there should be only one version of him so maybe editing his cvs sprites might be the way to go but majority rules so that just my two cents
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For Joe: The Fight Club stuff came from trying to expand him a bit more and from his role as Ghost in Final Fight Street Wise. @Sean Altly: Since this is a character that you are wanting to do and as such giving a discount. How much control over the character do you wish to have over him? Before the Fight Club stuff started I was in the same idea of "Average Joe" like you. The Fight Club thing really makes his moves write themselves. But if we're going with "Average Joe" can you describe a bit more in detail your vision for him? So we can get on the same page with the kind of attacks he'll have.
We got to come to a compromise in these things :P I know you have not received any money for him yet but I assumed we should establish what we are paying for 1st. Get a solid idea of the character and then promote the crowd funding. Also I totally asked if you wanted to make a topic for this ages ago and got blown off >:-[
I'd like some control over his moveset, but obviously we can compromise. Also, I didn't blow you off, I just hadn't gotten around to it yet. This is my first day off in 6 days. Good point though, you and Iced, about getting it all figured out before securing the funding.
I hadn't ironed everything out yet, I had ideas for a step-in move with follow ups, ala Jin in SFxT, called Ghost Step. It would go under projectiles with correct timing. Follow ups would be a close knee lift that pops the opponent into the air for a juggle hit, a strong spinning kick to the mid-section, maybe one or two more. I also envisioned a jumping downward elbow slash, would sort of be his version of a Jaguar Kick-type move as far as functionality goes. Hadn't really gotten much further than that.
I always just try to envision how Capcom would have updated him if they did, how they'd make him fit into the roster if they put him in a new Street Fighter game. They seem to take a less is more approach for a lot of characters, emphasizing fewer specials but making sure they're all useful in certain situations.
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I always just try to envision how Capcom would have updated him if they did, how they'd make him fit into the roster if they put him in a new Street Fighter game. They seem to take a less is more approach for a lot of characters, emphasizing fewer specials but making sure they're all useful in certain situations.
not really true with designs they adapted from sf1
we have 3 examples
birdie => went from guy with mohawk to guy that fights with chain, wearing old style punk motifs and odd tatoos and mohawk shape => got himself a very complex grappler thing going on
gen=> went from white haired fighter to assassin in his deathbed , changing styles and able to apply pressure point like damaging moves=> got turned into a stance fighter, with several moves per stance
eagle=> went from guy with a moustache to bouncer with a freddie mercury motif, twirling batons=> again a lot of moves.
They had archetype creations, sf works a lot on archetypes, mostly from martial arts movies ( Ryu being the average guy stoic hero and all )
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Also, Lee inspired Yun and Yang, if it wasn't for SF3 being too late in the storyline, it would have been him with these moves.
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And geki inspiration got turned into Ibuki, you are right i forgot those three.
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Eh, Geki is more of a generic ninja theme than actual inspiration, I don't look much into him. Although it's possible that when thinking about SF3 designs, they tried to recreate similar themes (Yun, Yang, Ibuki), but Ibuki is too different from Geki IMO. Shuriken throw, teleport, and claw, I don't think Geki would have ended up like Ibuki if they had pushed him further, if anything he was more turned into Claw. Meanwhile, I'm pretty sure they actually said that Lee would have had moves much closer to the twins (no, I don't have a quote, but he's their uncle and they share a common fighting style).
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Okay this might Seem kinda Silly, but how about Captain Commando? Obviously all his moves would have to be nerfed from MVC, but Techincally His game does take place in the future of Metro City, which means it is related to Street fighter in some way. We can even have a really silly Intro where he has to travel back in time for to save Haggar or something.
Another Chracter could be Haggar. I really like him and He's yet to appear in a SF game, Sean Altly's Already made the Sprites Too.
Just some Ideas I thought I'd throw out, don't take the Captain Commando one that serious. my Bias towards him is kinda strong.
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Haggar is a definite at some point if we get that far. Cap Commando is kind of doubtful. The only way I would like stuff like that to get in is if every SF character is converted at some point. DLC guest characters would really be all that could remain.
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Haggar is a definite at some point if we get that far. Cap Commando is kind of doubtful. The only way I would like stuff like that to get in is if every SF character is converted at some point. DLC guest characters would really be all that could remain.
Well, once you guys get the template done, Making Characters will probably speed Upa lot. It was just an Idea for later.
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Yep. I call the waiting on the template phase the "Hype killer" phase :P
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Cap Commando...I'd say nope. We have Viper :D
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Cap Commando...I'd say nope. We have Viper :D
But I don't like C.Viper. :/
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Cap Commando...I'd say nope. We have Viper :D
But I don't like C.Viper. :/
But I'm about to finish C. Viper, who's a SF character :P
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But I'm about to finish C. Viper, who's a SF character :P
I know, I was just saying I don't like her. Of course she would be added before someone with as little ties to street fighter as captain commando, It was just a half-serious suggestion.
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I always just try to envision how Capcom would have updated him if they did, how they'd make him fit into the roster if they put him in a new Street Fighter game. They seem to take a less is more approach for a lot of characters, emphasizing fewer specials but making sure they're all useful in certain situations.
not really true with designs they adapted from sf1
we have 3 examples
birdie => went from guy with mohawk to guy that fights with chain, wearing old style punk motifs and odd tatoos and mohawk shape => got himself a very complex grappler thing going on
gen=> went from white haired fighter to assassin in his deathbed , changing styles and able to apply pressure point like damaging moves=> got turned into a stance fighter, with several moves per stance
eagle=> went from guy with a moustache to bouncer with a freddie mercury motif, twirling batons=> again a lot of moves.
They had archetype creations, sf works a lot on archetypes, mostly from martial arts movies ( Ryu being the average guy stoic hero and all )
I'm not really talking about design wise, I'm more focused on the moveset, which you addressed, I just wanted to specify. I wouldn't call Birdie a "complex grappler," coming from someone who mains him in SFA3 (along with Charlie). Gen and Eagle I can't argue with, but Adon is definitely a SF1 character who was given a pretty simple moveset in future games (3 specials, 2 supers in SFA). Plus, I said they take a less is more approach with "a lot of characters," not just as far as SF1 updates go. I guess we just disagree on what Joe should be like.
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Not even talking about joe, you and I actually even pointed out the exact same move ( mine ended in a grapple yours ended in an attack but otherwise their exact function and dodge mechanics were the same).
Im just talking in general about how they adapt sf1 chars. Even adon got designed a lot, he went into the whole rival archetype for sagat, jaguar versus tiger and his persecution complex, always hunting down who he considers the strongest to prove himself. All of those characters got pretty cartoony. Birdie getting the chain is a pretty good example how they changed him up.
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...but Adon is definitely a SF1 character who was given a pretty simple moveset in future games (3 specials, 2 supers in SFA).
That's four supers if you count the different endings to Varied Assault, which in itself is something a bit more complex than most and unique to him.
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Just set up the thread for possible funding HERE (http://mugenguild.com/forum/topics/joe-sf1-character-mfgs-street-fighter-project-seeking-donations-159085.0.html). JNP discussed some things and I decided that your guys' ideas for him work well. Anything I want to change or add for my own version I can just do on my own time/money. I'll post a proposed moveset soon.
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Glad to hear of add Bison's cape, I can't wait for see him, definitely I will follow it (God heard me finally).
Is a shame that C.v.s The Abstract never made Ken's Street Fighter Zero outfit because would be perfect in this game and differentiate of Ken of Street Fighter 2.
About Joe, well I like the idea of renovate and maybe have two versions of him one with David sprites representing the years of Street Fighter 1 and the version of Seantly after the tournament.
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david bazbars dont really look that good and wouldnt fit this project without huge fixes. the animations he posted are so jerky
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well hi dont know if you have already decide for Joe story but here my idea for it
After losing the first street fighter tournament against Ryu Joe spent the next years fighting in underground fight and was put in jail many time. During his time in prison, he meant and befriend a certain Cody Trevors. When Bison announce his new street fighter tounement, knowing that could not do anything to arrest him, interpol add the idea to sent a double agent. They chose Joe. At first he did not want to do it but when he heard that he could keep the prize money he lefted to win the money and to get is boringness away.
I hope you like it.
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Hmm...it's nice, but it doesn't really fits him at all.
He was defeated during SF1, but we don't know who kicked his ass. Weall suppose it was Ryu, because is the only selectable character(aside Ken, but Ken is not really canon there, since he was participating in the America Martial Arts-tournament that he won).
Also, now that we are speaking about the America Martial Arts Tournament, I've read at Vasili's faq that Joe was once the champion and next year was defeated by Charlie N. And then Ken arrived.
It could be like he allies with Shadaloo to kick Charlie's ass, but I don't think he's THAT evil. He has some respect for himself, as a martial artist. He's not a conceited as Claw, insolent as Boxer or proud as Sagat. At least not as far as we know :P
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I prefer the story we already discussed where he's an averag guy that likes to fight. But after SF1 settled down and got a job and family. Giving up his dreams of fighting "giving up the ghost". But he secretly still fights in underground pit fighting which is where his Tyler Durden side comes from.
No need for him to have an elaborate intertwining story :p
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well i was thinking that he was in jail since is stage in alpha3 would have been cody stage. the fact that he know cody was that he was replace by him.
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But him knowing Cody has no point whatsoever in what you wrote.
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Well could be taken in consideration of the storyline the intro of Street Fighter 2 and Final Fight Streetwise.
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The story about him being an average guy and a secret pit fighter can still work with streetwise. Streetwise helped inspire it. Heck he could've even met Cody in jail and all that after SF1. Settling down after getting out. He just doesn't need an elaborate story with shaowloo. His story against bison or Gill or any boss could be that he just happened into the whole situation and beat them. Or even dreams he took down shadowloo while coming home from another day's work. (Fight with bison is a dream, pit fighting still real)
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I don't think I've ever heard the expression, "giving up the ghost" myself I don't know if it's a fairly common thing, when I looked it up it made sense though. Why not something simple like "dream crusher" or again..it could be that I've just not come across this expression myself and it may be more common than I think. Story wise, I think it would have been interesting to build on him, by maybe combining those thoughts with the idea of him being the former US champion until losing to Ken. I don't know if this would be too much like Rufus however, but it was just a thought.
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Well has the possibility to expand his storyline even better that Capcom did with him, even grow up.
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I don't think I've ever heard the expression, "giving up the ghost"
The "Ghost" in question is the name of the character in Streetwise whom everybody assumes to be Joe because of the exact same design (but not the same style and moves). I never heard that expression either (I see it means to die) but it's not related to the use here, which is, giving up his persona "the Ghost" and be an average guy (in the manner of the Fight Club narrator character). It shouldn't be renamed dream crusher or anything like that because that's ambiguous and the ghost is a direct reference to the character Ghost in Streetwise. Joe is the one giving up his Ghost identity.
By the way, where did that backstory come from, of being a champion in an official tournament until he was defeated by Charlie or Ken ? I'm checking the Japanese Wikipedia and it says he's a champion in underground martial arts. that just sounds like Streetwise, not actual championship.
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Oh I was just thinking on the spot, just in reference to the only opponents in SF1 being Ryu and Ken, and because they were both American I figured it seemed set up like him having reasons to feel inferior to Ken since losing back in the first game. I do get more of where this came from now at least, I never played Streetwise because I always heard bad things about it, so I never touched it, but I guess if it's a reference to another Capcom game it makes more sense and I certainly get the reference after researching it a bit.
Other aspects that could be borrowed from I guess may be possible to pull from the character he was based on, which according to the Capcom Wiki was a fighter named Joe Lewis, who is an entrepreneur. So perhaps tying the washed up fighter story with him finding successful business endeavors that kept him from fighting for many years could be a possibility. Even the prison story could be pretty much something like those Undisputed movies where he ends up fighting in a prison fight club, and proves himself in the ring, eventually making his way out, either by breaking out...or lasting his huge sentence which is what kept him away from the games for years.
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Yeah, the "finding successful business position keeping him away from real martial arts, but still coming back to fight clubs" fits with the Tyler Durden motif.
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The interesting thing about this game going through the SF series starting from 1 to 3 is that at the end of each "game" we could tell this story. Where he loses in SF 1 (even though you beat sagat as the player) to him getting thrown in jail and meeting Cofy in alpha, to getting out in Sf2 and so on. This could be done with all characters.
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Meeting Cody (and thus, going to prison) is an invention solely based on the fact that Cody replaced Joe at the last minute in the roster and went away with his Crack Kick, though. And the SF2 intro with Joe punching Mike was only a throwback to SF1 without any actual sense of story. At the end of the day, it's all fanmade.
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I wasn't relating that aspect of it directly to it, I was just mixing some of the information from which the character is based on, who was a fighter and is now a business man, I was just considering the possibility, to see where his story could branch out, not necessarily tieing into this whole Tyler Durden thing. Are any of the other SF1 characters *who were officially resprited at least* making a return? It would be Birdie, Adon and Eagle (and I guess Balrog, because apparently Mike and him might be the same guy)
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It's also all we got to work with and feels pretty good. Being a fan made game we can twist things how we want. Fan made canon for the fan made game :p
Ninja'd this was in response to byakko
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I dunno, I just don't see a reason to tie him to Cody apart from how Cody stole his Crack Kick. And if that goes, then Joe going to prison also becomes uninteresting, it's too random. It's like specifying that Mike or Boxer or anyone else from Shadaloo went to prison, it's just there to have something to say about them, and at this point it just feels like random fanfiction #37682. Sticking to the basics is fine too. Joe possibly doing prison time is a very minor detail if all he needs is "guy who gave up fighting but can't quit fight clubs". Compare to everyone else in the cast, they don't have, and don't need, that kind of detail. Someone like Gen only gets details because he keeps meeting Gouki, someone like Adon just need an excuse to have Sagat as his rival in SFZ3 etc. Dan and Blanka knowing each other was a big joke that evolved into a piece of cool backstory, rather than the other way around (trying to force some backstory then making it relevant)
Joe knowing Cody from prison would only be relevant if there's some piece of story mode with rival battles and Joe's is meeting Cody and ending up teaming up with him to clean up Mad Gear or something. Without that, then it just feels irrelevant. And if he does get any sort of rival battle, I'd see it more as a fight club meeting with someone, and that someone just has to be wandering wonderboy Ryu, it's a lot more "in context" than randomly knowing this guy and that guy and that other dude.
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Gotcha. Point taken
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Hmm I see your points, I just wasn't sure if the backstory used in this fangame was established yet, and so I thought it would be interesting to just plan out other possibilities to either add, or reconsider his story. Which is why I mentioned things like that real fighter he was based on being a possibility for more ideas, although I can see how it conflicts with the current idea of his pit fighting career.
I would have argued that potentially his connection to Cody could have been reconnected to the events of Streetwise, but since I never played that game I'm assuming they don't encounter each other, as the only video I can see of someone fighting him is with Kyle. Had that been the case it could have always been more of an issue of them being enemies, however with him , with Joe joining the gangs in Final Fight leading to some encounter. Also the fact that he's so undeveloped and you never really get any insight as to his motivations, this could be hard to argue too. That seems to be null and void though for the same reason that I can't find any issues of them coming across each other again in that game.
Overall though, I do understand what you mean though, there really isn't a large, established enough reason to really motivate some of the ideas I had mentioned. Perhaps that is why a lot of it sounds the way it does, I'm honestly just generating random possibilities, I take no issue with the current stance he's in, and again I only thought of these things, because I hadn't gotten that initial connection, I was trying to consider broader approaches in the chance that people didn't understand what that reference was.
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It isn't like the motivations behind each character have to be some epic masterpiece of narrative. Street Fighter never really prided itself on originality; most of the cast are either expies of real people, characters from movies or comics, or some other kind of stereotype.
As far as Joe being another rival to Ryu, though, it's getting to the point where there's a line; there are already two (Ken makes three?) characters from SF1 alone that designate themselves as Ryu's rival. If it came down to it I'd rather it be someone else. Hell, why not make it Ken?
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Streetwise is about Kyle Travers, Cody's younger brother. Cody is out of the story (aside from the part where he becomes hooked on the Big Bad Drug of the story that jacks him up into a vaguely Tyrant-inspired monster), and Kyle goes through the game getting into fights, goes into some fight clubs, and at some point one of your opponents is this guy called Ghost who looks exactly like Joe. That's literally everything we see of him, no interaction whatsoever beside that fight, not one line of dialog. He just happens to live in the same city. Probably.
Yeah, I just named Ryu because I don't see too many characters being the kind to randomly walk into a fight club, that's exactly Ryu so I thought of him. It doesn't have to be a big rivalry, they don't even have to know each other's name - much like how it goes in Streetwise. It could be his story of either getting defeated again and giving up fight clubs, or finally beating that guy who beat him all those years ago, and finally making it big. Or something. If not Ryu, who else can be involved in fight clubs and come across Joe to wrap up his story (quickly, in a non convoluted way) ? Aside from a potential joke ending of gathering all the hardasses of Metro City (so Cody, Guy etc.), this can still be done too (in spite of what I said earlier). Anything else would have to be a bit random and completely not personal, like, the fight club getting busted by the cops, or some turf war over money, or Joe walking into a bar and getting into a fight with the bouncer who happens to be Eagle, or why not Shadaloo thinking that a fight club is a nice place to recruit some muscle, etc. This is the kind of stuff I can see ending with unexpected character development, rather than trying to come up with something cool for this character and then trying to make the story fit that. Just take the Streetwise fight club and see where that goes.
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It could even be something as random as Abel having Fei Long as a rival in SF4 if you wanted to keep it short, you could have...pretty much anyone really, but if you were going for the bigger name Ryu/Ken as a rival at least it would be something as simple as Joe recognizing them from hearing about them so many times, and he just wants to take down the big dog for recognition cause he knows it would make people take notice.
This would ignore a lot of the narrative I talked of before, and could still keep it short and simple. I guess this would be kinda like Alex's reason, except rather than focused on the challenge and eventually overcoming it as well as the overall joy of the fight, Joe could be pretty much in it just for a more narcissistic purpose.
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Yeah, that works, and it stays in line with what little we have of him from SF1 :) (which is pretty much nothing but his portrait artwork)
(I did feel like the SF4 newcomers all had a forced connection to existing characters, like Hakan and Honda, Fuerte and Zangief, Viper and Chun-Li... But it's okay if it's fun)
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I don't think I've ever heard the expression, "giving up the ghost" myself I don't know if it's a fairly common thing, when I looked it up it made sense though. Why not something simple like "dream crusher" or again..it could be that I've just not come across this expression myself and it may be more common than I think. Story wise, I think it would have been interesting to build on him, by maybe combining those thoughts with the idea of him being the former US champion until losing to Ken. I don't know if this would be too much like Rufus however, but it was just a thought.
its kindof common.Usualy being "give up the ghost".
Give up the ghost has several meanings, to give up on a dream, to give up on something that took too much effort, to die. Its used at lenght here, because the "Ghost" is his fighting dreams. Its both literal and a metaphor.
Im with Snt here, sf stories are not that complex, you dont need to bring them all up into this as being with shadowloo or against it.
I dunno, I just don't see a reason to tie him to Cody apart from how Cody stole his Crack Kick. And if that goes, then Joe going to prison also becomes uninteresting, it's too random. It's like specifying that Mike or Boxer or anyone else from Shadaloo went to prison, it's just there to have something to say about them, and at this point it just feels like random fanfiction #37682. Sticking to the basics is fine too. Joe possibly doing prison time is a very minor detail if all he needs is "guy who gave up fighting but can't quit fight clubs". Compare to everyone else in the cast, they don't have, and don't need, that kind of detail. Someone like Gen only gets details because he keeps meeting Gouki, someone like Adon just need an excuse to have Sagat as his rival in SFZ3 etc. Dan and Blanka knowing each other was a big joke that evolved into a piece of cool backstory, rather than the other way around (trying to force some backstory then making it relevant)
Joe knowing Cody from prison would only be relevant if there's some piece of story mode with rival battles and Joe's is meeting Cody and ending up teaming up with him to clean up Mad Gear or something. Without that, then it just feels irrelevant. And if he does get any sort of rival battle, I'd see it more as a fight club meeting with someone, and that someone just has to be wandering wonderboy Ryu, it's a lot more "in context" than randomly knowing this guy and that guy and that other dude
Agreed.
I would give him a winquote against cody.
This one:
"Maybe you're my schizophrenic hallucination.
I was here first."
But just because its a fight club reference and seems well placed.
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There can't be rival battles anyway if the game reaches the heights we are hoping. Because we can't specify a rival to be sure and be able to fight Joe. Unless you have to go through EVERY character in the game. I mean I guess there could be rival battles but it'd be random chance to fight your rival and not guaranteed. unless your rival is a boss.
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I think even if it was incorporated as a random even from the chance encounter, it could be a neat mechanic. It could be you go through a few playthroughs and never come across it but when you do, it's like a random little treat, and keeping them short and sweet wouldn't feel odd imo if that's the case.
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That sounds like you're describing an interactive intro/winpose/win dialogue which will be in the game :)
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Ok, well perhaps just a tad more focus on each characters' rival specifically when it comes to writing those would be nice, as I don't know if you could apply some sort of indicator as part of the intro...it may be too much really, but as a random opponent with the "fight your rival" sort of thing happening might be a nice and...always unexpected touch.
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It's possible to do a cut scene before a fight if you happen to run into a "rival". We'll just have to see when we get enough characters for something like that. And how many people are still contributing.
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I would give him a winquote against cody.
This one:
"Maybe you're my schizophrenic hallucination.
I was here first."
But just because its a fight club reference and seems well placed.
That sounds perfect.
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That would be amazing to have this "Dialouge" type of think. I always loved it. It brings personality to each character, and I know this sounds crazy. But I think every character should have a Dialouge with each other. As I said, could bring more personality to each character. And I've always found it fun. I used to actually write some down on my spare time.
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Something like that would be a piece of cake. When we get to that point we'd just open up a thread dedicated to collecting win quotes and quotes towards specific characters as well.
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So...is the roster already decided upon or what? It's hard to tell from the first post .__.;
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The roster is decided on how well this takes off after Ryu is released. There is no set cast. We keep making characters from SF until the project dies or everyone is made. The only thing decided cast wise is which characters come next. Once Ryu is finished the next 3 characters have been chosen. Eagle, Birdie, and ChunLi. Joe gets a priority once he has sprites available.
Once those 3 are nearing completion we can start discussing the next batch to be made. And so on and so on.
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But like, the game sets on SF as main, but it's Spin-Off Final Fight has had a fair share of characters ending up in both.
Does this seem like a favour for other FF Characters too? Haggar, General Black, Damnd, Carlos??? (Random names from FF that yet has not come over)
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Haggar has sprites but the others don't, so...
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I'd like to se Vega (the spanish) in the rooster.
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We're following an order. First, SF1 characters who have their sprites done(aside Chun Li), then SFZ, SF2(well...this would just be like adding DR Cammy in, if done), etc etc.
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Haggar has sprites but the others don't, so...
Maybe its possible to resize these. It's limited but I think it's enough to create his basics and perhaps some imaginative special/super mover.
(http://www.spriters-resource.com/resources/sheets/34/36297.gif)
Damn'd and Carlos might be a little harder.
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... No. We're talking redrawing a whole sprite sheet here, resizing this is worthless.
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... No. We're talking redrawing a whole sprite sheet here, resizing this is worthless.
I'm guessing that there isn't a way to resize this without losing quality, perhaps?
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gotta love his crouching sprites... oh wait, he doesn't have them
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gotta love his crouching sprites... oh wait, he doesn't have them
There's potential for that in the next to the last row.
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I'm guessing that there isn't a way to resize this without losing quality, perhaps?
no.
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I'm guessing that there isn't a way to resize this without losing quality, perhaps?
There is a way to upsize without losing "quality", but you're not seeing that the quality in question is super small, if you upsize it it looks terrible, and that's not because you "lost" any quality. What there isn't is a way to upsize without multiplying the quality, and that's what you're asking. And the quality isn't even the only problem, the style is way too different and the sprites would need to be redrawn anyway to fit with the other characters.
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But..but...
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty
kidding...I get what you're saying
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Even a lovely idea, those characters would need a WHOLE redrawing. Resizing them and palete-swapping(whatever) makes them look unfitting here. They have a COMMON outline colour(usually, black) for clothes and skin. And while resizing, the result is...terrible(already tried)
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Going through Resource releases I found a link to this site. Has more SF3 to CVS conversions.
http://www.freewebs.com/marancv/sharingedits.htm
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I actually miss Marancv a little bit :P
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Going through Resource releases I found a link to this site. Has more SF3 to CVS conversions.
http://www.freewebs.com/marancv/sharingedits.htm
I had plans on separating those Ibuki sprites. I may start the separation again if someone want to add the hair to the sprites that are missing it.