The Mugen Fighters Guild

M.U.G.E.N Central => FullGame development => MFG Presents Street Fighter => Topic started by: FeLo_Llop on April 14, 2014, 09:23:38 am

Title: Custom Gethits
Post by: FeLo_Llop on April 14, 2014, 09:23:38 am
Hi there!

This topic would be used for speaking about custom gethits. You all know that SF has the electroshock, and the classic SF2 has a burn state(which turned everyone in the VERY SAME person). So...here's a question;

What kind of Electro Shock do you prefer? SFZ style(with yellow flash outside the character) or SF3 style, with normal glow and its negative?

(http://i59.tinypic.com/359ld6v.png)

I personally prefer the SF3 looking. SFZ yellow glow seems SO cartoonish. If people likes(or we can make a test), using the SF3 styled with a yellow spark above it?

-----------------------------

Let's burn everyone!!
(http://i39.tinypic.com/2mv0h.png)

These would need work for certain characters, let's say Cammy or big bitches as Hugo. I did a guy and girl body model, so in the end these will be adapted to the character...with the "burn effect" above it  :D . This will give this project a wink to the classics ;)! These are the body models:
(http://i42.tinypic.com/23mtpcg.png)  << I will be needing help at converting the SF2 burn sparking body into something cvs-looking. I totally SUCK at that D:! And depending on the character(mostly Zangief, Hugo, Zangief and BIG characters) will be needing an extra hand on those fire things D:!

Title: Re: Custom Gethits
Post by: Koop on April 14, 2014, 09:42:55 am
I prefer SFZ shock with the yellow flash. But I think it would just be better to use palfx and fire fx for fire moves.
Title: Re: Custom Gethits
Post by: Xenomic on April 14, 2014, 09:45:38 am
I think the SFZ one is best used myself. That's me though.

EDIT - My question is though, will characters for this project reuse the old shocks from SFZ or will they get completely new ones, or updated ones from SFIII converted into CvS stye (like say...for Chun-Li while also updating the terrible X-Ray sprite she had in that game)?
Title: Re: Custom Gethits
Post by: Loona on April 14, 2014, 10:49:36 pm
For the electric effects SF3 is the classier choice.
Title: Re: Custom Gethits
Post by: Alex Sinigaglia on April 14, 2014, 11:32:27 pm
I prefer the SF3 one too.
Title: Re: Custom Gethits
Post by: Bizarro Santamorphman on April 16, 2014, 07:50:43 am
SFA. Auras are fun.
Title: Re: Custom Gethits
Post by: FeLo_Llop on April 24, 2014, 09:56:29 pm
But...those yellow auras are very cartoonish :/

We can make another thing, tho. Putting them like in SF3 with a yellow glow or else, dunno(I totally don't like this :P).


Also, I found what I wanted to say abuot "part shocked", graphically. I didn't remember where I saved this image and now that I was watching my DA...found it!! I'm SUPERstupid ¬¬X

http://felollop.deviantart.com/art/Rose-vs-Juri-352748567


Title: Re: Custom Gethits
Post by: XGargoyle on April 24, 2014, 10:02:22 pm
I prefer the SFZ style
Title: Re: Custom Gethits
Post by: Xenomic on April 24, 2014, 10:04:13 pm
It also depends on what "style" you're going for. Going for more cartoonish style? Go with SFA. Going with a bit more "realistic"? Go with SF3. SFA is just more common than SF3 (and easier on the palette as well, especially if things like specific things not being blackened out (such as metal like with Birdie) or hair sticking around (think of someone like Felicia)).
Title: Re: Custom Gethits
Post by: Bizarro Santamorphman on April 24, 2014, 10:30:23 pm
FeLo_Llop said, April 24, 2014, 09:56:29 pm
But...those yellow auras are very cartoonish :/
SF has always been a cartoony game! Even SFIII!!!

Title: Re: Custom Gethits
Post by: SNT on April 25, 2014, 04:05:14 am
FeLo_Llop said, April 14, 2014, 09:23:38 am
Let's burn everyone!!
(http://i39.tinypic.com/2mv0h.png)
Having something like this for each body type would be incredible, but the devil's in the details.  Making one sprite for that would be okay.  Making three that animate would be a major pain in the ass.
Title: Re: Custom Gethits
Post by: Just No Point on April 25, 2014, 04:48:38 am
The electric anim could be triggered by the strength of the button pressed. LP = SF4, MP = SF3, SP = SFA, or something like that. Could be a low priority custom standard for the game.

The fire in that style would probably be best in small, medium and large sizes only. Not individual for each character.

How will Ice work in this game? Like SF3 or something more unique?
Title: Re: Custom Gethits
Post by: Xenomic on April 25, 2014, 05:14:14 am
Hm...I like that idea, though that'd be quite a bit of custom spriting to make the SF4 styled shocks. @_@;
Title: Re: Custom Gethits
Post by: Just No Point on April 25, 2014, 05:31:26 am
I presume that's what Felo had in his image he linked to. At least something similar.
Title: Re: Custom Gethits
Post by: Xenomic on April 25, 2014, 06:25:02 am
Oh, something similar to being grabbed and shock? If it's just that, that's simple. But if it's like how SF4 does it where they're still flashing while still animating in the air and slightly on the ground (which is what I was thinking of), then that's where it'd get complicated I think).
Title: Re: Custom Gethits
Post by: FeLo_Llop on April 25, 2014, 11:40:12 am
SNT said, April 25, 2014, 04:05:14 am
FeLo_Llop said, April 14, 2014, 09:23:38 am
Let's burn everyone!!
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty
Having something like this for each body type would be incredible, but the devil's in the details.  Making one sprite for that would be okay.  Making three that animate would be a major pain in the ass.

I know. That's why I made some BASE bodies, dunno why I haven't posted. Those bases could be used for pasting above them parts of the actual sprites(kinda like frankenspriting). Once done and filled, convert the fire/psycho effects into CvS and that's all. Once the character is burned or psycho'ed, adding that spark above them.
Of course, big characters as Zangief, Hugo, etc or smaller(as Cammy) could give problems :/ Maybe these will be converted to their sizes...aswell the sparks too. So...some characters will have that spark personalized to their size

(http://i42.tinypic.com/23mtpcg.png)

Just No Point said, April 25, 2014, 04:48:38 am
How will Ice work in this game? Like SF3 or something more unique?

Hmm...I haven't thought in that!! O.o!!! I have a vague image of that in my mind. There's one character able to freeze the rivals(Gill), so we can put it as in SF3. There are not other references.
About the electroshock thing, I agree with you, except the SF4 look. Having, for example, SF3 as LP/MP and SFZ for HP it's good too.

Xenomic said, April 25, 2014, 06:25:02 am
Oh, something similar to being grabbed and shock? If it's just that, that's simple. But if it's like how SF4 does it where they're still flashing while still animating in the air and slightly on the ground (which is what I was thinking of), then that's where it'd get complicated I think).

Exactly, that's the problem. Viper, as example, has a throw where she sits on the rival and electroknuckle the rival. That's why I propposed the "partial E.Shocked" thing, since it only shows the skull and upper ribs. Also, I think Rose and Dictator could be beneffited of it too.



Title: Re: Custom Gethits
Post by: SNT on April 25, 2014, 12:02:08 pm
FeLo_Llop said, April 25, 2014, 11:40:12 am
Hmm...I haven't thought in that!! O.o!!! I have a vague image of that in my mind. There's one character able to freeze the rivals(Gill), so we can put it as in SF3. There are not other references.
Well... there's SFxT Megaman...
Title: Re: Custom Gethits
Post by: Just No Point on April 25, 2014, 02:51:18 pm
If just going with the 2 shocks it could just be random.
Title: Re: Custom Gethits
Post by: Xenomic on April 25, 2014, 09:50:36 pm
FeLo_Llop said, April 25, 2014, 11:40:12 am
Exactly, that's the problem. Viper, as example, has a throw where she sits on the rival and electroknuckle the rival. That's why I propposed the "partial E.Shocked" thing, since it only shows the skull and upper ribs. Also, I think Rose and Dictator could be beneffited of it too.

Ehhh...if it's just that, that shouldn't be too hard to do. The throw itself should be simple as opposed to doing frame by frame shock while flying through the air and lying on the ground a bit. I'd imagine you can get away with a full shock there easily.
Title: Re: Custom Gethits
Post by: ink on April 26, 2014, 03:02:53 pm
I believe there will need to be custom get hits sprites for one of Birdes chain attacks.

Just checked and I was wrong. It could be cool to make some unique get hits for some attacks later on though.
Title: Re: Custom Gethits
Post by: Bastard Walt on April 29, 2014, 11:55:31 pm
FeLo_Llop said, April 25, 2014, 11:40:12 am
SNT said, April 25, 2014, 04:05:14 am
FeLo_Llop said, April 14, 2014, 09:23:38 am
Let's burn everyone!!
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty
Having something like this for each body type would be incredible, but the devil's in the details.  Making one sprite for that would be okay.  Making three that animate would be a major pain in the ass.

I know. That's why I made some BASE bodies, dunno why I haven't posted. Those bases could be used for pasting above them parts of the actual sprites(kinda like frankenspriting). Once done and filled, convert the fire/psycho effects into CvS and that's all. Once the character is burned or psycho'ed, adding that spark above them.
Of course, big characters as Zangief, Hugo, etc or smaller(as Cammy) could give problems :/ Maybe these will be converted to their sizes...aswell the sparks too. So...some characters will have that spark personalized to their size

(http://i42.tinypic.com/23mtpcg.png)
Dude, I know you're excited, but I gotta say ... every solution you (and everybody for the most part) is trying to implement, is usually one that requires heavy spriting ("IMPLEMENT 1 NEW MOVE/PORTRAIT/GETHIT FOR EVERYBODY") ... I don't mean to poop on this party, but everybody is too excited to see this for what it is - More universal solutions that require less work need to be proposed.

In my opinion, earlier games like CVS already solved this problem for you - Darken the get-hit sprites, and add generic smoke/flames on top of the sprites.

If you really wanted to do the SF2 flames, it could be done on top of each character's already exiting get-hit sprites, and the process could be streamlined in a way that only 1 burning sprite needs to be done - Cycle the colors via palette change, and that's the closest you'll get to an animation.

To conceptualize exactly what sprites should be needed, you need to define RIGHT NOW which moves from which characters will generate Burn Damage, to see the implications of that. Will more than 1 kind of animation be needed? Does it need to be applied to the full animation, or just to 1 key frame?

Title: Re: Custom Gethits
Post by: Just No Point on April 30, 2014, 12:18:11 am
For some reason walt's comment also made me remember that they no longer just have a knockdown animation with fire. Now fire moves can cause all sorts of hit frames. Going back to Gill and his ice, fire is done the exact same way in SF3 except with different sprites(fire) and pal change.

So yeah, it's a lot more practical to just use their current gethits
Title: Re: Custom Gethits
Post by: Bizarro Santamorphman on April 30, 2014, 12:19:45 am
Not all fire moves knock down anymore either, so you'd either need to change all of them to make them knockdown, or do burn animations for high standing get hit, low standing get hit, crouching get hit, and on and on and on.
Title: Re: Custom Gethits
Post by: Jango Hakamichi on April 30, 2014, 03:29:55 am
To be honest, I think the only custom gethit that would be cool to have in the game is the electrocution one. Street Fighter isn't like Darkstalkers where almost everything requires unique gethits, so really only the bare minimum is needed.

If you REALLY wanted to stretch, the only thing I could think of that would be kinda neat (and could probably be BS'ed) would be unique frames for Zangief's grappling moves so that he looks like he's actually grappling them and that they're not just in default gethit poses.
Title: Re: Custom Gethits
Post by: -Red- on April 30, 2014, 03:48:08 am
Do all of this the CVS2 way. We don't really need extra sprites for getting electrocuted/burned/whatever unless you wanna include that special electrocution animation that would look cool for moves that don't knock you down like a Denjin hadouken I guess. That would be like 3 sprites for everybody.

I think applying a palfx + some overlay effects is the way to go. It looks elegant and consistent across any body build type.
Title: Re: Custom Gethits
Post by: Xenomic on April 30, 2014, 03:51:52 am
Electrocution is something that's customary to Street Fighter I think, since it's been there since SFII (burn has only been in SFII really. Well, the burn frames of which you speak of in this thread anyways). I'd at least keep the electrocution if anything else (that was something that was relatively boring with CvS2 was there was no custom states despite there being ample room for said states. Oh well~)

I agree with the palfx/overlay stuff that people are saying about burned. Saves you all time with that bit and gives you time to do other things.
Title: Re: Custom Gethits
Post by: Just No Point on April 30, 2014, 03:56:12 am
Every Street Fighter 2+ game we are taking features from has the electrocution special animation (wait, does SF EX?)
Capcom vs SNK isn't a SF game so it has less influence. It looks like it'll have the SFA style and SF3 style. Done randomly so we don't have to rush to make both styles before releases.
Title: Re: Custom Gethits
Post by: -Red- on April 30, 2014, 04:05:26 am
How is CVS2 not a SF game at the core? There's like less than 20% of SNK mechanics in the game and none of them have anything to do with the gethit graphics anyway. It should definitely influence the game if you're going to use the spriting style from that game to begin with.

Heck, CFJ is less SF-ish than CVS2.
Title: Re: Custom Gethits
Post by: Jango Hakamichi on April 30, 2014, 04:05:43 am
Another idea would be to make a burnt palette that you rapidly flash back and forth between it and whatever palette you picked, ala SF3.
Title: Re: Custom Gethits
Post by: Xenomic on April 30, 2014, 04:09:13 am
SFEX series did not have it, nor did SF: The Movie (afaik anyways...I could be wrong!)

Though again, are you reusing the old shocks for this, or going to give some characters fresh, new ones? That is another question worth asking~

*Rant: CJF didn't even have Sangue animations. They bother with the Midnight Bliss and Pharaoh's Curse (and with Pharaoh's Curse, they could've easily done Burn and Shock as well), but no Sangue? Booooo! /End Rant*
Title: Re: Custom Gethits
Post by: Just No Point on April 30, 2014, 04:14:51 am
-Red- said, April 30, 2014, 04:05:26 am
How is CVS2 not a SF game at the core? There's like less than 20% of SNK mechanics in the game and none of them have anything to do with the gethit graphics anyway. It should definitely influence the game if you're going to use the spriting style from that game to begin with.

Heck, CFJ is less SF-ish than CVS2.

I'm just referring to mechanics and certain things only CVS specific. Of course most character specific data will come from that game. But when looking at whether or not to use shock animation or power charge we're not looking at CVS.
Title: Re: Custom Gethits
Post by: Bastard Walt on April 30, 2014, 04:05:38 pm
Rango said, April 30, 2014, 04:05:43 am
Another idea would be to make a burnt palette that you rapidly flash back and forth between it and whatever palette you picked, ala SF3.
That can be easily done through PalFX without having to use palettes!

See Vans' Kyo - he replaced the actual usage of palettes for the Orochinagi SDM, so the contrast for each palette would be kept, and avoiding people making mediocre palettes with 23 orange shades :P
Title: Re: Custom Gethits
Post by: felineki on May 01, 2014, 01:11:29 am
SSF2 introduced standing and crouching burn animations. It also had a second set of "large character" burning animations, which IIRC were only used for Zangief and T. Hawk.
Title: Re: Custom Gethits
Post by: A$AP Buckus on May 01, 2014, 03:21:44 am
I would start with chars that don't have collapse/cheap ko anims. Those can be used for crumple states as well.
Title: Re: Custom Gethits
Post by: FeLo_Llop on May 01, 2014, 12:01:34 pm
Ok, so burn states will not be. Ok. I think what Walt said would do the cut too. Darkening the gethit and then adding a flame FX over it. Now that I remember, this was used in SFZ2(?)

I'm wrong. That was used in SFZ3 Upper. Here's an example:
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

felineki said, May 01, 2014, 01:11:29 am
SSF2 introduced standing and crouching burn animations. It also had a second set of "large character" burning animations, which IIRC were only used for Zangief and T. Hawk.

Exactly. The thing here would have been using the bases I did for frankenspriting parts of the current bodies(sheets) above the "burnies"(those bases). I tried with Guile and the result is not that good. We'd have to sprite everyone's pose. Well, it's just ONE sprite, but the problem could come while adapting the flames' size and then filtering them into something like a CvS spark.

Hmmm...dunno. Well, guys, as you wish. We can do a poll or debating it here, as you wish :)