The Mugen Fighters Guild

Off-Topic => All That's Left => Topic started by: _Data_Drain_ on December 11, 2014, 06:14:09 pm

Title: Michigan House is passing a bill that allows EMTs to refuse treatment to gays...
Post by: _Data_Drain_ on December 11, 2014, 06:14:09 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyecS_QiRK8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyecS_QiRK8)

Just... just watch the video on Youtube itself, and read it's description....

I swear, America's getting progressively more, and more disgusting as time passes....

I just wanted to spread this news around. You don't even have to watch the video, just read the description.
Title: Re: Michigan House is passing a bill that allows EMTs to refuse treatment to gays...
Post by: Flowrellik on December 11, 2014, 06:17:15 pm
welp its official. I want to move to a new country now.
Title: Re: Michigan House is passing a bill that allows EMTs to refuse treatment to gays...
Post by: The Aboriginal One on December 11, 2014, 06:25:49 pm
This is about 1/55th of the country, not the country as a whole.
http://www.medicaldaily.com/michigan-house-passes-bill-allowing-health-care-discrimination-against-lgbt-grounds-313518
Quote
A new bill called the Religious Freedom Restoration Act (RFRA) has passed through the Michigan House of Representatives
Title: Re: Michigan House is passing a bill that allows EMTs to refuse treatment to gays...
Post by: _Data_Drain_ on December 11, 2014, 06:27:19 pm
This is about 1/55th of the country, not the country as a whole.

Perhaps I did overreact a bit. But still, I'm hoping this doesn't pass. Then spread to other states....
Title: Re: Michigan House is passing a bill that allows EMTs to refuse treatment to gays...
Post by: Bea on December 11, 2014, 06:30:56 pm
It is still a very hurtful and dangerous bill. :|
Title: Re: Michigan House is passing a bill that allows EMTs to refuse treatment to gays...
Post by: Bastard Walt on December 11, 2014, 06:31:13 pm
Wow, that is fucked up.
Title: Re: Michigan House is passing a bill that allows EMTs to refuse treatment to gays...
Post by: Umezono on December 11, 2014, 06:32:16 pm
you shouldve posted a news source instead of this neckbeard dude. also:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/sexuality/michiganmedical.asp

do research people, this is a shaky defense at best in court imo. its a stupid bill tho.
Title: Re: Michigan House is passing a bill that allows EMTs to refuse treatment to gays...
Post by: Bastard Walt on December 11, 2014, 06:32:58 pm
Thank you, I was thinking the same thing. More sources

http://patch.com/michigan/royaloak/critics-religious-freedom-act-makes-bias-against-gays-legal
Title: Re: Michigan House is passing a bill that allows EMTs to refuse treatment to gays...
Post by: The Aboriginal One on December 11, 2014, 06:35:06 pm
In my sources, it states the bill is as such, however, I note the title of the link I've posted is indeed propaganda.
Title: Re: Michigan House is passing a bill that allows EMTs to refuse treatment to gays...
Post by: Umezono on December 11, 2014, 06:41:54 pm
What I have gathered:

- it does provide people with innocuous claims like "i dont want to bake a cake for a gay wedding because of my religion" that power. whether or not this is religious discrimination or freedom of religion is hard to tell. i err to the side of discrimination... i would hope that the law will not protect people in restaurants who refuse to serve muslim people just because they are christian. they also cited "a muslim butcher not wanting to work with kosher meat" as a scenario.
- if used as defense in court to refuse medical service, they would have to prove its unreasonable for the government to intervene as it would violate their beliefs. the government could easily prove that it has the right to intervene in that all citizen should recieve medical service - this is gross oversimplification tho. From the source: "First, the individual would have to prove the request violated his or her sincerely held religious beliefs, and the government would then have to prove the law achieved its policy goal through the least restrictive means possible."
- its really broadly worded and gives a lot of power to businesses
Title: Re: Michigan House is passing a bill that allows EMTs to refuse treatment to gays...
Post by: Bizarro Santamorphman on December 11, 2014, 06:43:08 pm
Jesus fucking Christ
Title: Re: Michigan House is passing a bill that allows EMTs to refuse treatment to gays...
Post by: Niitris on December 11, 2014, 06:45:48 pm
Oh cool, another stupid bill was written. Apparently something like this happened in Arizona but fortunately was cut short.

http://www.medicaldaily.com/michigan-house-passes-bill-allowing-health-care-discrimination-against-lgbt-grounds-313518 said:
A form of the RFRA was already vetoed in Arizona this past February, as a Republican-led legislature passed the bill only for it to get shot down by Republican Gov. Jan Brewer. The bill made similar claims about religious freedom in that it allowed individuals the right to refuse service based on conflicting beliefs with homosexuality. LGBT activists argued the bill unfairly targeted the gay and lesbian population and that the First Amendment’s protection of freedom of religion did not apply.
Title: Re: Michigan House is passing a bill that allows EMTs to refuse treatment to gays...
Post by: _Data_Drain_ on December 11, 2014, 06:48:26 pm
What I have gathered:

- it does provide people with innocuous claims like "i dont want to bake a cake for a gay wedding because of my religion" that power. whether or not this is religious discrimination or freedom of religion is hard to tell. i err to the side of discrimination... i would hope that the law will not protect people in restaurants who refuse to serve muslim people just because they are christian. they also cited "a muslim butcher not wanting to work with kosher meat" as a scenario.
- if used as defense in court to refuse medical service, they would have to prove its unreasonable for the government to intervene as it would violate their beliefs. the government could easily prove that it has the right to intervene in that all citizen should recieve medical service - this is gross oversimplification tho. From the source: "First, the individual would have to prove the request violated his or her sincerely held religious beliefs, and the government would then have to prove the law achieved its policy goal through the least restrictive means possible."
- its really broadly worded and gives a lot of power to businesses

Ah... I see. So it's not as bad as I initially thought. But it still should be stopped. Since it COULD lead to at least some form of discrimination or hassle for gay/bi people.

Again, I'm sorry for not looking into this deeper... I guess I was a bit too hasty to post this.
Title: Re: Michigan House is passing a bill that allows EMTs to refuse treatment to gays...
Post by: Bad News GBK on December 11, 2014, 06:49:15 pm
Here in Germany and probably in other countries too, the big..pretty negative news about America today were the reactions by Dick Cheney about the publifications of all the tortures there in Guantanamo Bay.

What a fucking asshole that guy was and is.
Title: Re: Michigan House is passing a bill that allows EMTs to refuse treatment to gays...
Post by: Bea on December 11, 2014, 06:50:23 pm
What I have gathered:

- it does provide people with innocuous claims like "i dont want to bake a cake for a gay wedding because of my religion" that power. whether or not this is religious discrimination or freedom of religion is hard to tell. i err to the side of discrimination... i would hope that the law will not protect people in restaurants who refuse to serve muslim people just because they are christian. they also cited "a muslim butcher not wanting to work with kosher meat" as a scenario.
- if used as defense in court to refuse medical service, they would have to prove its unreasonable for the government to intervene as it would violate their beliefs. the government could easily prove that it has the right to intervene in that all citizen should recieve medical service - this is gross oversimplification tho. From the source: "First, the individual would have to prove the request violated his or her sincerely held religious beliefs, and the government would then have to prove the law achieved its policy goal through the least restrictive means possible."
- its really broadly worded and gives a lot of power to businesses

This first case is almost harmless enough, until you consider that someone can refuse to sell plan B or birth control pills or shots, because they "cause abortions"* and that is against their religion.
*Hint, hint - Plan B and birth control methods aren't abortives. They prevent fecundation of the egg. Also, birth control pills, shots and patches are used for much more than just preventing pregnancy to happen.

The second case wouldn't help much the person that was denied service, as said person would likely be either dead or permanently crippled by the time government intervention happen...

And it giving a lot of power to businesses is pretty bad. We already saw large business denying to cover birth control because it goes against their "religion freedom".

It is a pretty shitty bill.
Title: Re: Michigan House is passing a bill that allows EMTs to refuse treatment to gays...
Post by: _Data_Drain_ on December 11, 2014, 06:54:27 pm
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

This first case is almost harmless enough, until you consider that someone can refuse to sell plan B or birth control pills or shots, because they "cause abortions"* and that is against their religion.
*Hint, hint - Plan B and birth control methods aren't abortives. They prevent fecundation of the egg. Also, birth control pills, shots and patches are used for much more than just preventing pregnancy to happen.

The second case wouldn't help much the person that was denied service, as said person would likely be either dead or permanently crippled by the time government intervention happen...

And it giving a lot of power to businesses is pretty bad. We already saw large business denying to cover birth control because it goes against their "religion freedom".

It is a pretty shitty bill.

Yeah, it really is. It might not be EXACTLY as the video I posted said it was. But this is still REALLY bad.

Heck, in some ways, it's actually worse then I thought. Since yeah, it has pretty much the same problems from that video. And more to it.
Title: Re: Michigan House is passing a bill that allows EMTs to refuse treatment to gays...
Post by: supervegeta on December 11, 2014, 06:55:19 pm
how would they know that a patient is gay though? is there a sexual orientation section on IDs?
this bill is stupid and it won't work because a) they're not gonna ask every patient if he's gay or not, and b) even if they did, a patient can simply lie.
Title: Re: Michigan House is passing a bill that allows EMTs to refuse treatment to gays...
Post by: Iced on December 11, 2014, 07:01:38 pm
how would they know that a patient is gay though? is there a sexual orientation section on IDs?
this bill is stupid and it won't work because a) they're not gonna ask every patient if he's gay or not, and b) even if they did, a patient can simply lie.

why should they have to lie ?
What if its an uncoscious person and the paramedics find out its transexual? Do they dump him or her in the side of the road?
Title: Re: Michigan House is passing a bill that allows EMTs to refuse treatment to gays...
Post by: Алексей on December 11, 2014, 07:11:16 pm
It allows the "religious freedom" of small things, but the scariest of them all is that the bill allows EMTs to refuse treatment to gay people... which is true. The dude in the video made it seem like that's all the bill was for. It's just one of the things that one could do under the protection of this bill if it was passed. I don't give a fuck what you practice, but if you're going to deny treatment to a life as an EMT, then you're doing something wrong... Shit like this is exactly why I don't follow a religion. I'm hoping that this does get vetoed completely because a person's religious beliefs should NEVER be above saving a person's life.
Title: Re: Michigan House is passing a bill that allows EMTs to refuse treatment to gays...
Post by: supervegeta on December 11, 2014, 07:13:17 pm
What if its an uncoscious person and the paramedics find out its transexual? Do they dump him or her in the side of the road?
I guess only transexuals are gonna get dumped out hospitals because of this bill.
Title: Re: Michigan House is passing a bill that allows EMTs to refuse treatment to gays...
Post by: Iced on December 11, 2014, 07:15:50 pm
What if they google you and find out from facebook you have a boyfriend? Are you saying that you should have to hide it in order to get treatment a hair cut, or heck a beer at your local bar?

Title: Re: Michigan House is passing a bill that allows EMTs to refuse treatment to gays...
Post by: Алексей on December 11, 2014, 07:19:00 pm
What if they google you and find out from facebook you have a boyfriend? Are you saying that you should have to hide it in order to get treatment a hair cut, or heck a beer at your local bar?
A perfect example of why this is simply an act of discrimination and not religious freedom.

Title: Re: Michigan House is passing a bill that allows EMTs to refuse treatment to gays...
Post by: Black Hatter on December 11, 2014, 07:27:22 pm
What if they google you and find out from facebook you have a boyfriend? Are you saying that you should have to hide it in order to get treatment a hair cut, or heck a beer at your local bar?
A perfect example of why this is simply an act of discrimination and not religious freedom.


Yeah this isn't how religion is supposed to work, man. This just makes anyone who follows a religion look like a skinhead. This helps nobody at all, based on what I've read in the thread.
Title: Re: Michigan House is passing a bill that allows EMTs to refuse treatment to gays...
Post by: supervegeta on December 11, 2014, 07:40:17 pm
What if they google you and find out from facebook you have a boyfriend? Are you saying that you should have to hide it in order to get treatment a hair cut, or heck a beer at your local bar?
"oh, hi there. you need a haircut? go read that magazine for sec while i google your name to see if you're part of something that offends my beliefs :) "
i already said this bill is stupid and it's not gonna work.
Title: Re: Michigan House is passing a bill that allows EMTs to refuse treatment to gays...
Post by: Umezono on December 11, 2014, 07:52:26 pm
It definitely will have adverse effects when it comes to.medicine and pharmaceuticals. Also people shouldnt have to lie. Thats literal silencing and oppression imo
Title: Re: Michigan House is passing a bill that allows EMTs to refuse treatment to gays...
Post by: The Simplistic Fubini on December 11, 2014, 08:03:04 pm
What if its an uncoscious person and the paramedics find out its transexual? Do they dump him or her in the side of the road?
I guess only transexuals are gonna get dumped out hospitals because of this bill.
They could kick gays out of intensive care (or any other hospital wing) if their significant others show up for a visit; there's a bunch of other instances in which they could single out lbgt people or their children. 
Title: Re: Michigan House is passing a bill that allows EMTs to refuse treatment to gays...
Post by: supervegeta on December 11, 2014, 08:11:11 pm
but thats just so fucking inhumane, it would never make this bill pass the discussion phase, not to mention the bad rep the USA health care already has and now they're literally letting people die because they don't share the same belief?
The Führer would've been proud.
Title: Re: Michigan House is passing a bill that allows EMTs to refuse treatment to gays...
Post by: DKDC on December 11, 2014, 08:41:42 pm
I don't think a gay person could get kicked out of the hospital over this, because this is about the (supposed) freedom of one individual (the guy treating you) to refuse service on the basis of your sexual orientation. What that means is that for it to get as far as kicking you out of the hospital, the whole staff there would have to refuse treating you. It's more likely that one such piece of shit would simply get to pass you along to another nurse or whatever, not kick you out.
And then there's the whole thing about Hippocratic oath that would fucking ruin forever the shit out of any asshole who tried to refuse service to a gay person, but I guess that's just doctors, I'm not sure how it would go in an ER (but there should still be doctors in there, right ? I don't know exactly how it works)
Title: Re: Michigan House is passing a bill that allows EMTs to refuse treatment to gays...
Post by: Iced on December 12, 2014, 12:03:33 am
the possibilities are endless.

You get a hotel room but the manager finds out you are gay when you arrive with your significant other? Turns out there isnt a room, the manager isnt comfortable hositng gays.
You are having a pizza delivered but you answer the door in drag? No pizza for you, the person delivering just leaves.
Get a flat tire but the person arriving to tow you doesnt like that you are pakistani? Turns out you are staying by the side of the road until someone else comes.

your tailor discovers that you are actually a woman dressing in drag? sorry madam, turns out i cant in good faith supply clothes to the degenerate.

You call 911 and go "My boyfriend just collapsed!" the phone attendant refuses to take your call and passes it off to someone else. 3 minutes shaved out of response time.

Its a ridiculous law all around. you cant claim that dealing with specific people is against your religion. Thats just a gateway to socially accepted racism/homophobia.

"Oh im sorry sir, our only moustache trimmer person is a devout christian so he cant trim your moustache. you will have to seek service elsewhere"

going "Well they should just hide they are muslim/gay/furry/black" implies there is something wrong with it and they need to hide it to be treated like valid human beings.
Title: Re: Michigan House is passing a bill that allows EMTs to refuse treatment to gays...
Post by: Gritsmaster on December 12, 2014, 12:35:10 am
Lol I wouldn't want a skinhead xenophobe operating on me anyway.

In all seriousness, this is ridiculous. The very concept of someone studying for 8+ years in a field to be able to help people, but being selective with WHO they help is plum retarded to begin with. The fact that there's a bill in place to support it is just sad.
Title: Re: Michigan House is passing a bill that allows EMTs to refuse treatment to gays...
Post by: Negi Springfield on December 12, 2014, 12:40:31 pm
I saw the video TC posted a few days ago and I was already pretty pissed off about it but now that i've read more on it and see it extends to anything that offends personal beliefs and not just gays is beyond retarded.
pass or not, the religious right is going to destroy this country, mark my words.
Title: Re: Michigan House is passing a bill that allows EMTs to refuse treatment to gays...
Post by: Bastard Mami on December 12, 2014, 06:04:18 pm
the possibilities are endless.

You get a hotel room but the manager finds out you are gay when you arrive with your significant other? Turns out there isnt a room, the manager isnt comfortable hositng gays.
You are having a pizza delivered but you answer the door in drag? No pizza for you, the person delivering just leaves.
Get a flat tire but the person arriving to tow you doesnt like that you are pakistani? Turns out you are staying by the side of the road until someone else comes.

your tailor discovers that you are actually a woman dressing in drag? sorry madam, turns out i cant in good faith supply clothes to the degenerate.

You call 911 and go "My boyfriend just collapsed!" the phone attendant refuses to take your call and passes it off to someone else. 3 minutes shaved out of response time.

Its a ridiculous law all around. you cant claim that dealing with specific people is against your religion. Thats just a gateway to socially accepted racism/homophobia.

"Oh im sorry sir, our only moustache trimmer person is a devout christian so he cant trim your moustache. you will have to seek service elsewhere"

going "Well they should just hide they are muslim/gay/furry/black" implies there is something wrong with it and they need to hide it to be treated like valid human beings.

you forgot to post the feminazi examples.
Title: Re: Michigan House is passing a bill that allows EMTs to refuse treatment to gays...
Post by: DJ_HANNIBALROYCE on December 15, 2014, 03:17:23 am
this pisses me off so much. we are ALL human! im so over this....
Title: Re: Michigan House is passing a bill that allows EMTs to refuse treatment to gays...
Post by: Legendary DeMoNk@I on December 15, 2014, 03:30:56 am
wow...that shit crazy...ones lifestyle has nothing to do with a life being saved...I would have thought in this day in age after so much has happened that folks would be passed that now especially here in the U.S.