The Mugen Fighters Guild

M.U.G.E.N Central => FullGame development => King of Fighters E => Topic started by: swipergod on November 14, 2007, 02:53:22 am

Title: King of Fighters E blog
Post by: swipergod on November 14, 2007, 02:53:22 am
Website: http://mugekofe.web44.net/ (http://mugekofe.web44.net/)

***Note: This posting has been modified to bring the information here up to date***

Hello All,

Eight years and counting and we're almost there. Four core characters remain plus one bonus.  I have made it a personal goal to get each and every character finished.  What brought this about?  I wanted to share what I've been doing privately with all of you and get some feedback and promote more full games (not just compilations).  I'm a big fan of KOF and ever since discovering Mugen, I've wanted to create my own KOF game.  I've been downloading characters (sometimes upto 3 versions) to use their sprite sheets and modding them.  I don't like the flash of dream cancels and XX hit endless chains.  I prefer the KOF98/Super Street Fighter 2 style of play.  I've also been trying to limit the coding differences between the characters.  My idea is to:

70 characters.  Sub-bosses will have slightly altered priority, but shouldn't be drastically overpowering.  Bosses will have high priority and exceptional abilities, however, in order for them to be beatable, they still have recovery time and plenty of hitby frames.  Each character should:

-Eventually use CCIron Mugen's base as their system (blessing received, thanks CCI).

-Minimize sprite recycling. 

-Have 5-6 Special Moves.

-2 DMs, an SDM and an HSDM.

-2 original throws.

-Remain loyal to that character's original design (no Clarks throwing fireballs here), but add a fitting move if, for example, they have a awkward HSDM or only 4 specials.

-Simplify commands so the skill of the game isn't who can do a Raging Storm, but who can use it more effectively.

-Have universal hitstates including Mary snaps and Collapse KOs

-Have a tag mode code for simul 

Characters with beta versions:
Hotaru, Shen, Billy, Eiji, Gato, Heidern, Lee Pai Long, May Lee, Duo Lon, Chris, Yashiro, Shermie, Goro, Ralf, Clark, Xiangfei, Mary, Ash, Elisabeth, Kensou, Adel, Ж', Jenet, Rock, Maxima, Mature, Vice, Yamazaki, Kula, Andy, Robert, Benimaru, Athena, Kyo, Yuri, Jhun, Vanessa, Joe, Ryo, Angel, Kasumi, Iori, K', Leona, Mai, Kim, Whip, Terry, King.  Sub-Boss: Mr. Big, Mr. Karate, Geese, Krauser, Saisyu.  Boss: Krizalid, Rugal, Chizuru, Goenitz.  Final Boss: Zero,Orochi, Neo-Dio, Goddess Special Entry: Shiki

Currently working on: Tung
Up next: Oswald
Ongoing project: Raiden

Characters on the to do list:
Ryuhaku, John, Silver.  Speicla Entry: Nakoruru.

Anyway there's the project.  I would just like to add that I have the utmost respect for all the Mugen creator's whose work I've modded.  I have noted all borrowed codes and plan to give each modded character proper credit.  Something someone said about Mugen creation once, "Mugen would be so much stronger if people shared with each other instead of competed against each other."  I agree.  Thoughts, comments, ideas, suggestions.  I'll continue to throw videos on youtube every time I complete a character.  Help is always welcome.
Title: Re: A Little Mugen Project
Post by: DavidGee on November 14, 2007, 12:24:46 pm
All I got to say about that is (A) right on, and (B) sounds like an immense number of man-hours.
Title: Re: A Little Mugen Project
Post by: kingofM.U.G.E.N. on November 14, 2007, 03:36:56 pm
Indeed. Its not just a "little mugen project".
It probably took you years to do this! Good luck to you my good man.
That would be an epic release.
Title: Re: A Little Mugen Project
Post by: swipergod on November 14, 2007, 04:44:13 pm
Thanks.  I started learning the code and sprite ripping in January, so it's been awhile.  I'll try to get at least a couple videos up this weekend.

-
Title: Re: A Little Mugen Project
Post by: swipergod on November 18, 2007, 02:44:01 am
King's video is up too: http://youtube.com/watch?v=RKVVbVfrvKI (http://youtube.com/watch?v=RKVVbVfrvKI)

I posted 5 videos without sound (my soundcard doesn't allow sound to record):

Mai http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0h_jnTnxyxM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0h_jnTnxyxM)
Ryu http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1ofSc5Ds1o (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1ofSc5Ds1o)
Maxima http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FF80Nt6rxcU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FF80Nt6rxcU)
Mary http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnPYZWGimrA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnPYZWGimrA)
Rock http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TjE-mlE71Y (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TjE-mlE71Y)

You'll probably notice little changes made to certain animations and moves.  The exhibitions are in training mode and show the throws, unique moves, specials, DMs, SDMs and HSDMs of each character.  I know super sparks and effects are inconsistent.  That's part of what I'm working on fixing.  I'll put up a vid of King soon.  She's almost finished.  If you want to see more character vids, let me know.
Title: Re: A Little Mugen Project
Post by: stig87 on November 19, 2007, 08:35:22 am
this feels so similar to what I was dreaming a year ago. Except i had a bunch of so called mugen "elites" come in and call me a leech and tell me I could never do what I wanted, and that I was lazy.

1 year later, I've basically turned a lot of heads.

My advice to you is just to take it one piece at a time and eventually you'll get there.
Title: Re: A Little Mugen Project
Post by: swipergod on November 20, 2007, 04:48:19 pm
Thanks for the advice and good luck with your own ongoing project!  I'm going to keep posting videos throughout the week.  Just search for videos by swipergod on youtube.  Leona, Geese, Athena and Kim should go up this week for sure.  Just to let you all know, so I don't continue to spam my own topic with "this video is up and that video is up".  On a side note, I'm surprised Mai the most popular posted character so far (I figured Ryu would've been) and that Rock's a distant second.

The next step for me is to finish up the universal skeleton to be used by all characters and start porting the character's moves over.  After I've done that, I'll start the other characters.  If someone has a good way for me to rip orochi shermie's voice from kof 2002 + her striker laugh from 2000 let me know.  I've tried with nebula jukebox, but I can't get the mame rom I have to work with it.  Neorage a good alternative?  Keep the comments, advice and suggestions coming.  Thanks.
Title: Re: A Little Mugen Project
Post by: Bastard Mami on November 20, 2007, 05:56:14 pm
want your post to be moved to projects?
Title: Re: A Little Mugen Project
Post by: Young Shimaiuskoo Doh on November 20, 2007, 06:09:27 pm
Good fortune on your project, good ol' kid!!

Just like EZ said, "[This is gonna] be an epic release." (Evil Zangief)
Title: Re: A Little Mugen Project
Post by: swipergod on November 21, 2007, 04:51:21 pm
I know I said I wouldn't keep posting when I threw up new vids, but I'd also like to grab a couple of opinions for effects I've added. 

I gave Kim his phoenix explode from Real Bout and I think it looks alright, but was wondering what others thought (framerate skips in the vid unfortunately).  I'll be posting vids of K', Athena and Yuri today or tomorrow.  For K', I've given him a new HSDM along the lines of Freeman "walking counter".  Just wondering if it looks alright.  Also for King (who I've already posted), what do people think of the Real Bout 2 HSDM effect I threw in? 

Anyway, here are the 3 new ones posted so far.  After I post the next 3, I won't be able to post anything for a couple of weeks (gotta get ready for my move to a new city).  So enjoy these for now.

Geese: http://youtube.com/watch?v=xI4TtZPMmFI (http://youtube.com/watch?v=xI4TtZPMmFI)
Leona: http://youtube.com/watch?v=6nOlMRVzf2E (http://youtube.com/watch?v=6nOlMRVzf2E)
Kim: http://youtube.com/watch?v=rXx3FjOIqdE (http://youtube.com/watch?v=rXx3FjOIqdE)

Edit: Added:

K`: http://youtube.com/watch?v=ED4e-bPa2Lo (http://youtube.com/watch?v=ED4e-bPa2Lo)
Athena (Extremely early alpha): http://youtube.com/watch?v=Y-BOTmGPrPE (http://youtube.com/watch?v=Y-BOTmGPrPE)
Yuri: http://youtube.com/watch?v=KSIRZ6JSarY (http://youtube.com/watch?v=KSIRZ6JSarY)
Title: Re: A Little Mugen Project
Post by: swipergod on December 10, 2007, 09:08:45 am
I've added Terry to the mix.  I basically did a direct conversion from Sander's coding to CCI's coding skipping the alpha phase of the conversion.  Took 3 days.  I think Terry turned out pretty good.  A shame I can't post sound with my recorder.  Anyway Beta Terry is up and on youtube here: http://youtube.com/watch?v=1WerYTg8oyg (http://youtube.com/watch?v=1WerYTg8oyg)

I've also posted videos for alpha Benimaru: http://youtube.com/watch?v=vjJ2PbMS_Y0 (http://youtube.com/watch?v=vjJ2PbMS_Y0)
and alpha Kasumi (Still looking to give her her 96 throw): http://youtube.com/watch?v=zXSmfy6-3PM (http://youtube.com/watch?v=zXSmfy6-3PM)

Success with Terry even when trudging through Sander's complex coding to simplify it gives me a lot of confidence with the project.  Especially the end result.  I'll be hitting up Kyo, Iori and Ash next, if I can't get Orochi Shermie's Voices (I'd like to do her next).  As usual, I'll keep you posted.
Title: Re: A Little Mugen Project
Post by: Bastard Mami on December 10, 2007, 05:22:33 pm
heh, sander's terry... i am curious as in what did you change on terry's code, so please elaborate.
Title: Re: A Little Mugen Project
Post by: swipergod on December 10, 2007, 07:02:11 pm
Sander's coding was a nightmare to translate for me because I have just a bit more than basic knowledge.  Basically I had to change all the 5000 states (hit states) and block states so they matched CCI's coding (to universalize everything) and re-number all the airs that I needed to use in Sanders animations (78658885 to 220 for a fierce punch for example).  I also had to either add or remove variables that existed in Sander's coding that didn't exist or existed as a different variable in CCI's coding (such as the Fvar).  I had to change damage, velocities, priorities, poweradd and I removed the Floor coding (admittedly I don't yet understand Floor and Ceil coding).  Changed motions, removed a lot of moves (his Terry had like 80 specials), altered a few (slide into power charge!), added some new sprites and sounds etc...

Basically all the Basic techniques (attacks, evades, quick recover, counters, counter throws etc...) are directly coded from CCI with ported animations, sounds, sparks and coding tweeks.  All the Throws and Specials/DMs are Sander's code modified to function under CCI standards (removing such coding as !Time = !Stateno so Terry wouldn't pass through the floor when doing a Crackshoot).  Unfortunately, this technique removes Sanders excellect AI coding, but once I've finished transferring all the characters, I plan on learning AI programming so I can hopefully fix that.  Honestly, I don't expect other characters to be as hard to code.  Hopefully that clears things up for ya.
Title: Re: A Little Mugen Project
Post by: DemonicDrPhil on December 11, 2007, 09:19:39 am
very interesting and epic project as has been said.  if you accomplish even half of it this will be a major step forward for the whole open source movement...which I am in full support of.

A full balanced KOF game using already made characters as a base is just perfect as far as I am concerned.

Much luck on this one.
Title: Re: A Little Mugen Project
Post by: A Stray Child on December 11, 2007, 03:28:59 pm
I'm a HUGE KOF Fan too ;D

Good Luck With Ur Project :sugoi:
Title: Re: A Little Mugen Project
Post by: Bastard Mami on December 11, 2007, 06:04:41 pm
so, you removed most of sander's code and left most of mine... except for all the specials you removed, of course.
Title: Re: A Little Mugen Project
Post by: swipergod on December 12, 2007, 05:01:39 am
Translating all the code to CCI's (yours) would just be too much I think.  I'm a really big fan of your coding though, which is why I'm trying to use as much of it as possible.  I have your code to thank for teaching me how this crazy Mugen world works, so Thanks!  Thanks goes out to all those throwing in their support.  I've almost finished Mr. Karate.  It seems 3 days is the magic number for all these translations.  I  will most likely finish, just because the results are so promising.  I'll have a heck of a time with characters like Kula and Chizuru, which is why I'm leaving them until last.  Those will take more than a couple days for sure.  When I finish Karate, I'll throw up his Video and a couple more Alphas.
Title: Re: A Little Mugen Project
Post by: swipergod on December 13, 2007, 06:35:13 am
Okay, finished the Mr. Karate beta.  Think he turned out even better than Terry.  Lot more original coding from me though.  May wind up releasing him a bit earlier down the road so you can get a feel for what I'm trying to do.  Would at least like to try and get permission from the relevant parties first though.  Honestly, I was disappointed with all the Mr.Karate/Takumas out there which is why I'm considering the early release.  The AI is pitiful though.

Mr. Karate:http://youtube.com/watch?v=nSYo8p2MgrQ (http://youtube.com/watch?v=nSYo8p2MgrQ)
Billy Kane: http://youtube.com/watch?v=pndEUlRFQxI (http://youtube.com/watch?v=pndEUlRFQxI)
B. Jenet (yes I removed Rolling Thunder, sorry): http://youtube.com/watch?v=WAVvseiF2RY (http://youtube.com/watch?v=WAVvseiF2RY)

So a few more things I figure I'd share for people who might be wondering what's the difference between alpha and beta aside a little knit-picking.  Alpha are characters whose move sets have been altered to fit the image of the character I'm trying to make (removing moves, modifying moves, adding new moves).  A beta incorporates more of the mechanics:

Adjusting all shared animations to one standard (basically make everything match).
Give everyone those awesome super explodes for levels 1,2 and 3.
Giving everyone universal rolls and quick recovery from a fall.
Give everyone counter throw animations (giving and receiving).
KOF Style Alpha counters and Escape rolls.

Things that are not in this game:  Dizzying (unless it's specific for a move like Ryo's Super Punch), Guard Crush (Never liked this feature in games) and Air Recovery (seeing how this game tries to stay away from the infinite juggling play style, it isn't necessary).

I'm thinking of doing Whip next and then Iori, but I'm gonna take a break for a bit.  Once i finish two more characters, I'm gonna convert all the alpha's to beta's before finishing the last stretch.  Going from beta to final will be the priority check, two in one programing, hit/guardflag check, poweradd/damage check, attr check and basic AI.  That'll be a long time coming.  I'll be satisfied if I can just get the betas done for now.
Title: Re: A Little Mugen Project
Post by: swipergod on December 14, 2007, 01:15:10 am
Sorry for the sudden posting onslaught, but this one is good.  I've managed to record videos with sound finally using my microphone (yup I'm an idiot).  I've reposted all the beta characters with sound.  Won't repost the others until they become betas.

Mr. Karate: http://youtube.com/watch?v=nSYo8p2MgrQ (http://youtube.com/watch?v=nSYo8p2MgrQ)
Terry: http://youtube.com/watch?v=1WerYTg8oyg (http://youtube.com/watch?v=1WerYTg8oyg)
King: http://youtube.com/watch?v=RKVVbVfrvKI (http://youtube.com/watch?v=RKVVbVfrvKI)

The music and stages belong to the characters fighting in them.
Title: Re: A Little Mugen Project
Post by: swipergod on December 23, 2007, 03:30:57 am
I've completed Whip.  Much like the other betas, I'm feeling really good about this one.  I've touched up some sprites (I'm not very good at sprite editing, so it took forever) and will be posting those in the resources section.  She has a revamped gun attack.  It's slow, but unblockable.  However the high shot can be ducked, while the low shot cannot hit jumping opponents.  ;)  .  She also has a new throw and her fwd +p attack has been modified into an SDM.  She also has her XI DM. 

Whip: http://youtube.com/watch?v=Vpbgt-oWUlg (http://youtube.com/watch?v=Vpbgt-oWUlg)

Will need some help with a couple sprites that I simply can't edit (Mary ankle snap animations) and still looking for someone willing to help me with voice ripping, but I'll request those it the request section.  Also be posting Kasumi's 96 throw animation in 99 style.  Couldn't do anything about the pants unfortunately.

Also, I cut out Ryu from the game in favor of adding Gato, and moved Rugal to the boss section to take his place.  I've tuned little things for the betas as well like poweradds, fall.recovers and damage.  The balance is great.  I'll be editing a couple of the alpha's next (probably Mai and Kim), before going on to Iori.
Title: Re: A Little Mugen Project
Post by: Bastard Mami on December 23, 2007, 04:18:28 am
curious about your whip, is it based of H's,shingin's or ryukocha's?

also, in kof 99 you can rip the striker action as it seems to be very similar to an unused dmor the sdm you mention.
Title: Re: A Little Mugen Project
Post by: swipergod on December 23, 2007, 06:03:06 am
It is based off of H's.  Off all the Whips out there that I could find, H's was a solid starting point.  The SDM I gave her is a lot like the striker action except there's more hits (9-10), the attack doesn't knock you in the air or push you away and it juggles.  The video can show you what is tough for me to explain.  All vids are just exhibitions of move sets really.  If you can't see the vid, I'm planning to do a release of 3 or 4 beta characters once I've finished about 8 or so.  She'll probably be one of them.
Title: Re: A Little Mugen Project
Post by: swipergod on January 02, 2008, 09:14:51 am
I've finished up Kim's Beta.  I'll be moving on to Mai (my supposed hottest character) and then Iori and K'.  After that I might take a small break to "refuel" so to speak.  Still gotta check the Nothitbys and fix the 2 in 1s.  I think what I'll do is release all 8 Betas at once and let the community see if they like 'em, like how they play and can find some bugs in 'em.  No point in talking about them when nobody can play 'em for themselves.  So upcoming betas will be:

Terry, Mr.Karate, Kim, Mai, Whip, K', Iori, King

They'll hopefully be up in 3 weeks (depends how long Iori will take me).
Title: Re: A Little Mugen Project
Post by: swipergod on January 07, 2008, 05:09:13 am
Alright, Mai's beta is also complete:  http://youtube.com/watch?v=MX1KpfW3aV8 (http://youtube.com/watch?v=MX1KpfW3aV8)
Thankfully, now you can hear the sound now.  Also forgot to post Kim the last time:  http://youtube.com/watch?v=b5EgbkaVWME (http://youtube.com/watch?v=b5EgbkaVWME)
Really diggin' those afterimages.  Don't worry, I'm not overusing them.  The betas will come out as a pack of 9.  That'll be 1/4 the way there.  I'm gonna add Kasumi's beta to the mix.  Also, I'm working on Rugal instead of Iori.  I know I keep postponing Iori, but other characters are holding my interest right now.  So Iori won't make the Beta release.  :(  So, I'm still at 3 characters to go.  I hope I can get it all done before the end of the month.
Title: Re: A Little Mugen Project
Post by: DemonicDrPhil on January 07, 2008, 07:02:36 am
does kim have his QCB+P x 3 special?
Title: Re: A Little Mugen Project
Post by: swipergod on January 07, 2008, 09:25:29 am
He doesn't unfortunately.  I incorporated the animations into his cd attack and his SDM.  Kim was tough to balance and the 3xqcb +p move didn't seem necessary (He's got the qcb +k and B,f +k as advancing moves).  When I release him though, you can tell me whether or not the move is missed.  ;)  I plan on releasing a pdf with each characters the moves to go along with the characters themselves.
Title: Re: A Little Mugen Project
Post by: DemonicDrPhil on January 07, 2008, 10:21:10 am
eh I miss it because I like Iori's  version

Kim doesn't NEED it there are plenty of times throughout the KOF's that he didn't have it.

I'm still very much looking forward to this game good luck with it
Title: Re: A Little Mugen Project
Post by: Cybaster on January 07, 2008, 01:41:09 pm
I removed the Floor coding (admittedly I don't yet understand Floor and Ceil coding).
Do you just mean you don't know what floor and ceil mean ?
Floor = closest integer below the number
Ceil = closest integer bigger than the number
floor(2.26)=2 , ceil(2.26)=3 , floor(45)=ceil(45)=45

Translating all the code to CCI's (yours) would just be too much I think.  I'm a really big fan of your coding though, which is why I'm trying to use as much of it as possible.  I have your code to thank for teaching me how this crazy Mugen world works, so Thanks!
Not sure if I understood well, but I just wanted to say that CCIronMugen != R[E]ika.

Project is interresting, I'll be waiting to see if you balance everything out like you plan to do, this could be quite nice. :)
Title: Re: A Little Mugen Project
Post by: Leon Belmont on January 07, 2008, 03:28:15 pm
Interesting project, indeed.

Though I personally would prefer it if you stayed more true to the real KOF; I have no objections towards what you're doing now.

Not much to say, videos really don't say much in these cases, I guess we have to play the characters ourselves before we can give some real feedback.

Good luck with this.

Title: Re: A Little Mugen Project
Post by: swipergod on January 08, 2008, 02:42:23 am
Warbaster, thanks for clearing up Floor and Ceil.  I guess the coding people use them for is a little too complex for my mathematically challenged mind.  And yes, I'll need to clear up coding credit for release.  Was going to PM R[E]ika about it when I take a day (maybe more  o_O) to work on the credits for each character and the project in general.  I'll be counting on people's opinions after the release to see how balanced the characters actually are because right now I'm doing everything in my head.  AI is retarded and I don't have anyone to play with, so there isn't any way for me to pre-test in-game.

DemonicDrPhil, to spice Kim up a bit, I've allowed his Strong Haki Kyakku to hit downed opponents.  He and Whip are the only 2 with that ability so far.  Right now, the only major character changes are coming from Angel, Ash and Kula.  Angel is set to be an almost entirely different character with chain circlet working somewhat like Kyo's Shiki punch chain.  The hope is to make her more accessible.
Title: Re: A Little Mugen Project
Post by: DemonicDrPhil on January 08, 2008, 04:47:53 am
Hmm Angel kind of got more accessible retroactively since Momoko came out in XI similar kind of stuff going on there IINM.

Although I would be very interested in your take on the character
Title: Re: A Little Mugen Project
Post by: swipergod on January 08, 2008, 08:28:38 am
Wow, just plowed through Rugal today.  Probably'll have to go back and fix something cause that was fast.  I'll throw a video up once I've finished Kasumi as well.  Won't be for a little bit though.  Really need to take a break from Mugen.  FYI, I've decided to move the list up to 40 fighters.  Adding Andy, Robert, Mature and Vice.  To me, that completes the list of must haves, so I figured why not.  That mean 10 fighters will be released in the package and Iori's back on the menu.  I'm shooting the end of the month, but we'll see.  Cheers!
Title: Re: A Little Mugen Project
Post by: Bastard Mami on January 08, 2008, 10:52:25 pm
i got sexy ko edits for several of the female chars, in theory all are complete but the quality varies. let me see if i can put something online soon.
Title: Re: A Little Mugen Project
Post by: swipergod on January 09, 2008, 01:58:49 am
Hey R[E]ika, that would be fantastic!  I'll take whatever you have.  Thanks!
Title: Re: A Little Mugen Project
Post by: Skank88 on January 09, 2008, 04:49:44 pm
Nice project of a KOF DreamMatch! Keep up the good work!
Title: Re: A Little Mugen Project
Post by: swipergod on January 11, 2008, 07:17:02 am
Ouff!  I just finished revamping Rugal.  He wasn't what I was hoping for the first time around, so I really went for it the second time out.  He's easily my favorite character.  He also caused me the most headaches.  I'm still having trouble with the stopsnd command for his godpress run (the computer doesn't want to stop the run snd), but other than that he's awesome.  He's basically an all in one Rugal, but stays within the standards of the game:

Rugal moves include: 

His tomahawk kick

Genocide 95, Genocide 02 (TLE's Rugal)
Reppuken
A toned down Destruction Omega as a special technique (unblockable)
Dark Barrier with Kaiser Wave as a reflected fireball only
God press

Dark gravity as a DM
That 98 drain move as a unblockable DM (stays in one spot now though)
God Rugal's Level 3 grab super as a SDM
And a crazy mod of Android's Mech Rugal's gigantic pressure as his HSDM (fixing this one was excruciatingly hard).   

I'll post a vid soon.  I'm burnt out so I'll need a at least a week before I even touch mugen again.  Also, hate to say it, but editing Rugal has left me spent for creating betas from scratch so Iori is shelved again. :(  The Final first release roster will look like this:

Kim, King, Whip, Rugal, Mr. Karate, Mai, Terry, K', Leona, Geese.

That's it for now.  Time for some much needed sleep.
Title: Re: A Little Mugen Project
Post by: swipergod on January 13, 2008, 01:33:31 am
The link to Rugal's vid: http://youtube.com/watch?v=SRcMejpPmZQ (http://youtube.com/watch?v=SRcMejpPmZQ)

Hope ya like it.  I'll get on Leona this weekend I think.  I just wanted to give a little insight as to why most character take a little longer than you'd think.  In additon to all the converting and move tweeking, I sometimes have characters that are missing full animations and moves that no version out there has and I have to rip sprites or hunt for existing sprites that would make a good animation and code from scratch (I spend a lot of hours here).  The other reason is because I'm trying to give every character at least 3 victory poses and special intros.  Even after the characters are done, I'll still have credits to make, permissions to seek and special moves to re-tweek.  Don't know if I can make the Jan deadline, but I'll try.
Title: Re: A Little Mugen Project
Post by: Bastard Mami on January 13, 2008, 04:50:05 am
pmed you a link with the sexy kos. note that the quality varies and i mightgo back and retouch some of them.
Title: Re: A Little Mugen Project
Post by: swipergod on January 13, 2008, 02:59:55 pm
PM received R[E]ika.  Thanks.  Any retouches will be greatly appreciated (should've read this before PM-ing you back).  Just so that everyone else knows, out of the final roster mentioned in the first post, Athena and Hotaru will be the only girls without Sexy KOs.  They really give this project a more complete feel.
Title: Re: A Little Mugen Project
Post by: Bastard Mami on January 13, 2008, 04:50:12 pm
the reason there is a nude folder is because of the way anonymous and i worked on them; anon would send me the sprites he needed for the sexy ko, then i would take off most of the clothing and send them back. after it  he would make two layers, in the bottom one he would put the nude sprite and on top of it the dressed, then he would delete/edit the clothing on the top one so it looks like it is ripped. mai and blue mary were done by anon before i joined the project.

just so everyone else knows what we are talking about.
link to the sexy ko's
they are open source btw, just credit me and anonymous for them, as it was a team work thing.
http://rapidshare.com/files/83365991/sexykos.rar

there was no real reason to pm the link, since they are public as andthe only reason they are not online is because i have been slacking off on my site.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on January 16, 2008, 11:19:51 pm
Well, Leona's finally finished.  I'll post her video in a little bit.  In keeping with the 98 spirit, I re-coded her X-calibur move to the grab that it was in 98 (as opposed to the 96 version I originally had).  2 characters to go before the first batch is released.  I've got some sprite editing to do this weekend(*sigh*  ;)), so I won't start on transferring Geese and K' until sometime next week.  Then I'll have to do a final check over before release.  It's just gonna be the characters for now.  I have no screenpack, so I can't decide whether or not to release the stages and music with them for a more KOF feel, or have everyone fend for themselves.  If anyone has suggestions here, let me hear 'em.  I could try posting links to the stage creator's sites maybe?  I'll also be posting a list of remaining resources (pretty much all sprites) that I need to complete everybody soon.  There isn't much.  Well, just have to wait a little longer.  I'm honestly getting pretty excited.  Can't waiting to hear some feedback, be it good or bad.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Bastard Mami on January 16, 2008, 11:26:49 pm
what's your approach with sparks ?
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on January 17, 2008, 01:17:01 am
Leona Video: http://youtube.com/watch?v=IP0NTVjyy6M (http://youtube.com/watch?v=IP0NTVjyy6M)

CCI King's sparkxys were used for the base moves.  I just had to mod the sparkno.s for each individual move.  With most of the characters I've edited so far, this looks alright.  If the xy looks really noticeable, I change it.  Most characters have the base KOF pre-XI sparks.  They all blend rather well.  I hesitate to use the SP sparks or base sparks because I don't have a main SP of my own yet.  I usually leave the default xys for throws and specials for the original source.

As for the DM sparks, I copied the DM and SDM frame by frame from MOTWs.  I use a blank hypers.cns template with the effects timing already coded (including the bg invert etc), copy and modify the DM itself into the cns and adjust the xy for the effect so it doesn't appear somewhere weird on the character.  So for the DMs, I have an FX folder that had the correct xy and air coding for each part.  I add them to each character's sff file and copy and paste.  It's tedious, but the efforts are well worth it IMO.  The HSDM is the easiest and its air is my own creation.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: banditsofthesea on January 17, 2008, 01:36:22 am
This is looks REALLY good! Keep up the good work!!!  ;D
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: la;MISS~FairY-! on January 17, 2008, 07:28:19 am
Really nice project. You seem to be attempting what I am! (Although having much more success, heh)

I'm really, really unimpressed by Rugal, though. His custom moves just don't feel like him at all.. Hopefully he plays better?
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Leon Belmont on January 17, 2008, 09:49:05 am
Quote
I add them to each character's sff file and copy and paste.
Hmm. Why don't you make a fightfx.sff/fightfx.air, compile all the system sparks there (hitsparks, DM sparks, SDM sparks, ground waves, burnt effects and everything) so that you only have to compile it once & don't have to insert them into every single character?

Also, I'd assume all your characters use the same common states?

You should release this with the data folders and everything because it makes it faster and easier. Compile all the effects and junk into one SFF, write all the animations in one .air, have the common.cns in the data folder, put all the system sounds together in one SND, and then you won't have to do it again and again and again.

Just a tip. I guess you'd already known but I don't see any point at all with re-inserting sprites/sounds/animations into every single character when you only really have to do it once if you're making a full game. Also saves space.

 
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Bastard Mami on January 17, 2008, 04:47:53 pm
yeah, and will also save you some work in the long run.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: la;MISS~FairY-! on January 17, 2008, 07:12:39 pm
I forgot to ask before...

Do you plan on making this moleboxed or normal files? I really hope the latter, so many nice stuff gets ruined by molebox..
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on January 18, 2008, 08:20:57 am
Missfairy, I'm sorry Rugal isn't what you expected.  Just to let you know, with the exception of God End, I wanted to stay away from Capcom's Rugal as much as possible.  No Genocide End and the like.  Dark Gravity and Gigantic Press are just DM versions of Omega 98's normal moves, while Breath Destruction is just a toned down Omega Destruction.  I chose more 98 over 2002 because I don't really like 2002 Rugal.  Oh well.  I'm not sure what moleboxing is.  If you'd like, you can fill me in on that one to see if I'm doing it or not.

I can't win with the regular hitsparks/sounds because I'd either have to recode the basic moves (which I'm doing) or all the ported specials.  Not too familiar with the system side of Mugen yet.  I don't quite know how fight.sff/snd etc.. works, but I can look into it and see if I can add the DM sparks and save some time.  Thanks for the suggestion.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on January 24, 2008, 06:11:47 am
Sorry for the lack of updates.  Discovered Portrait of Ruin for the DS.  Fun little bugger.  I've completed Leona's sexy KO re-edit based off of R[E]ika's and Anonymous' original.  Changed it because she wears a shirt underneath and I wanted the KO to reflect that (I'll send you the sprites soon R[E]ika).  I'm starting Geese tomorrow.  He'll be done by the weekend for sure.  As I work on him, I'll see if I can't incorporate suggestions brought up here.  Then, I'll try to do K' right after.

Figured now would be as good a time as any to post the list of resources needed for the project.  I'll post pictures for the sprites soon and I'll mark things off as they're completed.  It's as much a checklist for me as it is a progress report.  I'm capable of doing some of these, but it would be awesome if I could get help.  So if you're interested, let me know.

Sounds:

Edit: All sound requests are completed.  Thanks!

Sprites:

Robert '99-2k2 sprite to his 2k3 stance:
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj119/swipergod/rob.gif)

Kyo '99 (hcb + sk) exploding punch converted to 2k3 style Kyo (This is pretty much what's keeping me for doing Kyo)
Diana's version of Foxy's "Kill" type technique (like the one Alex/Tooya0's Diana uses)

Re-edit of K' (f + wk) knee for Kula (Juke has kinda done one with Fliz minus the hair I believe)
Some conversions for Rock's win poses from Garou to his NGBC sprite style.

Blue Mary Leg Snap and Arm Snap animations for Athena EX
Blue Mary Leg Snap and Arm Snap animations for Mr. Karate

Sexy KO hit-ground sprite for Angel
Sexy KO re-edit for Jenet (cover up her breasts a bit)
Sexy KO falling re-edit for Blue Mary
Sexy KO for Hotaru
Sexy KO for Athena EX

There's no crazy rush for any of these as the project will be ongoing for a while.  That's pretty much it for right now.  As I do more characters something might come up.  I'll add them to this post if it does.  Post again soon!
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: la;MISS~FairY-! on January 24, 2008, 06:24:45 am
Missfairy, I'm sorry Rugal isn't what you expected.  Just to let you know, with the exception of God End, I wanted to stay away from Capcom's Rugal as much as possible.  No Genocide End and the like.  Dark Gravity and Gigantic Press are just DM versions of Omega 98's normal moves, while Breath Destruction is just a toned down Omega Destruction.  I chose more 98 over 2002 because I don't really like 2002 Rugal.  Oh well.  I'm not sure what moleboxing is.  If you'd like, you can fill me in on that one to see if I'm doing it or not.

I can't win with the regular hitsparks/sounds because I'd either have to recode the basic moves (which I'm doing) or all the ported specials.  Not too familiar with the system side of Mugen yet.  I don't quite know how fight.sff/snd etc.. works, but I can look into it and see if I can add the DM sparks and save some time.  Thanks for the suggestion.
I understand. Honestly even though Rugal wasn't quite what I imagined I have to give you major props for putting so much work into that stuff. It's REALLY awesome IMO!

Moleboxing is making the files zipped so you only have access to the exe. Basically people wouldn't be able to adjust commands and stuff if they wanted - Honestly I despise this and I really do hope you don't do it!^^
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Bastard Mami on January 24, 2008, 06:39:14 am
Missfairy, I'm sorry Rugal isn't what you expected.  Just to let you know, with the exception of God End, I wanted to stay away from Capcom's Rugal as much as possible.  No Genocide End and the like.  Dark Gravity and Gigantic Press are just DM versions of Omega 98's normal moves, while Breath Destruction is just a toned down Omega Destruction.  I chose more 98 over 2002 because I don't really like 2002 Rugal.  Oh well.  I'm not sure what moleboxing is.  If you'd like, you can fill me in on that one to see if I'm doing it or not.

I can't win with the regular hitsparks/sounds because I'd either have to recode the basic moves (which I'm doing) or all the ported specials.  Not too familiar with the system side of Mugen yet.  I don't quite know how fight.sff/snd etc.. works, but I can look into it and see if I can add the DM sparks and save some time.  Thanks for the suggestion.
I understand. Honestly even though Rugal wasn't quite what I imagined I have to give you major props for putting so much work into that stuff. It's REALLY awesome IMO!

Moleboxing is making the files zipped so you only have access to the exe. Basically people wouldn't be able to adjust commands and stuff if they wanted - Honestly I despise this and I really do hope you don't do it!^^

really, if you don't want him to do it, stop suggesting it :P
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: la;MISS~FairY-! on January 24, 2008, 06:43:58 am
Missfairy, I'm sorry Rugal isn't what you expected.  Just to let you know, with the exception of God End, I wanted to stay away from Capcom's Rugal as much as possible.  No Genocide End and the like.  Dark Gravity and Gigantic Press are just DM versions of Omega 98's normal moves, while Breath Destruction is just a toned down Omega Destruction.  I chose more 98 over 2002 because I don't really like 2002 Rugal.  Oh well.  I'm not sure what moleboxing is.  If you'd like, you can fill me in on that one to see if I'm doing it or not.

I can't win with the regular hitsparks/sounds because I'd either have to recode the basic moves (which I'm doing) or all the ported specials.  Not too familiar with the system side of Mugen yet.  I don't quite know how fight.sff/snd etc.. works, but I can look into it and see if I can add the DM sparks and save some time.  Thanks for the suggestion.
I understand. Honestly even though Rugal wasn't quite what I imagined I have to give you major props for putting so much work into that stuff. It's REALLY awesome IMO!

Moleboxing is making the files zipped so you only have access to the exe. Basically people wouldn't be able to adjust commands and stuff if they wanted - Honestly I despise this and I really do hope you don't do it!^^

really, if you don't want him to do it, stop suggesting it :P
Haha, I only posted that since he didn't know what it was.

From here on out we'll never utter that word again! (Or think of it)  :-X
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Leon Belmont on January 24, 2008, 10:19:19 am
BTW, you should go for accurate CLSNs, since I don't trust that every single KOF character you've whipped out and editted so far have accurate CLSNs. If you have accurate CLSNs, not only will the character feel more alike KOF, you won't have attacks that have wrong priority and you will avoid your characters behaving strangely in certain situations.

It's easy, get out Kawaks, run the rom your character is on, turn on debug dipswitch 1-2 for anything from '94-2k2, and 1-4 for 2k3. Pause the game with ENTER whenever you want a certain collision box and SHIFT+SPACE to step frames, and draw it up on FF/MCM/Your favourite third party MUGEN tool.

Once again this is important if you want to stay true to KOF.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on January 24, 2008, 09:09:03 pm
Never, would I ever molebox.  I don't bash people who do, but for me, I think the whole purpose of Mugen is it's open source and customizability.  So people can learn how you programmed this or that and tweak characters out there more to their liking.  We can always use more programmers.  :) I look at it as if I were one of you waiting for these characters.  I'd hate it, for example, if Reppuken were stuck as a charge move (it's not, but you get the idea).  Plus I think it'd be pretty hypocritical considering how much I've borrowed from other people.  Plus, leaving it as open source might see some people improve the characters I make.  Like I said, I'm not an advanced programmer, but some are.

Now, I'm curious about collision boxes Yeong Woong.  I did as you directed and tried with 98.  There was a odd colored Kyo that popped up on my screen.  I could get him to do moves, but I couldn't see any collisions.  You're right, most my mods have edited collisions.  They're pretty tight to the sprites, but I have noticed some discrepancies.  I was gonna edit priority/hit.priority.   Wouldn't that fix the priority problem as well?
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Bastard Mami on January 24, 2008, 10:58:24 pm
priorities in kof pretty much go like they do in most games. the "priority line" has the same value for all the attacks and the clsns are the ones that define it by using set zones of "infinite priority".
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Jesuszilla on January 24, 2008, 11:06:18 pm
However, it is impossible to replicate priorities in MUGEN due to the way KoF handles CLSNs.
Title: Post edited to make user look smarter.
Post by: Bastard Mami on January 24, 2008, 11:35:49 pm
However, it is impossible to replicate priorities in MUGEN due to the way KoF handles CLSNs.
I have seen people say that several times, but which of it exactly is impossible to duplicate?
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Leon Belmont on January 25, 2008, 02:06:11 pm
Now, I'm curious about collision boxes Yeong Woong.  I did as you directed and tried with 98.  There was a odd colored Kyo that popped up on my screen.  I could get him to do moves, but I couldn't see any collisions.  You're right, most my mods have edited collisions.  They're pretty tight to the sprites, but I have noticed some discrepancies.  I was gonna edit priority/hit.priority.   Wouldn't that fix the priority problem as well?
Make sure you've turned on 1-2, because anim viewer (the one you activated) is 1-1, which will indeed give you a character on the screen with the palette of the character you're using, which is related to ripping sprites. Which is also not what you want. You can use the anim viewer in conjunction with the CLSN viewer in case you want a certain animation's CLSNs but you find it difficult or impossible to access through normal means. But that's rarely the case.

Here's the dipswitch you should've turned on:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v292/MetalArch/1-3.jpg)

Here's what it will look like in-game:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v292/MetalArch/2-1.jpg)

Notice how I removed the life/superbars. That's quite preferable since you don't want things blocking your view when you're drawing boxes. You press alt+1 in Kawaks to do this. Also, China is very retarded if you want CLSNs so lets hope you get a better stage. One more thing is can you notice that cyan-ish-colored box roughly in the center of Terry's sprite? You'll notice that that box rarely (if ever) actually changes. That's not an actual CLSN box, it's a width box or something. Either way, you don't draw it in.

Also just a notice that usually in fighting games like KOF (especially Street Fighter), CLSNs aren't 'tight to the sprites'. CLSNs most of the time are quite loosely based on the actual sprite, but the CLSNs are drawn in the way the developers want how the character to behave and react during that certain sprite. For example, even if Terry looks like he has recovered from his CD attack, the CLSNs of the sprite where he looks like he's almost done with the attack actually have boxes OUTSIDE his body, so he can still get attacked as if his body was in actuality a few feet in front of his current position.

Another related thing is that it will be very hard to approximate CLSN1s for certain attacks, whilst it should be quite straightforward with normals, usually the CLSN1s for certain specials REALLY need to be what it's supposed to be or else you'll get dodgy things happening that you don't particularly want with a KOF game.

As [E] has mentioned, I've also read somewhere that priorities should all be 4,hit (some people do not use this but that's because they want overall MUGEN compatibility. Since you're on a full game, I'd say definitely use it), save for throws which is IIRC 1,Miss and projectiles which I have no idea how to deal with.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Bastard Mami on January 25, 2008, 04:44:04 pm
there was a nice topic about projectile priorities that died before it should in development discussion.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on January 27, 2008, 01:29:10 am
I understand priorities now and how real games handle them as opposed to Mugen (read the priorities thread in development).  I also understand projectile priorities and how to make projectiles swallow other projectiles.  There's a lot of work going into redoing all the collisions for all the characters.  I had to adjust some for Mr.X-File's Rugal (he did auto collisions for every frame) and that was a real nightmare.  I'll see what I can do with some, but I may just release the betas and have people come back and tell me which moves are too low/high priority wise (for example, "Um, swipergod, Rugal's trip beats out everything!  Can you fix that?").  That'll probably be a main fix for the final release versions of all characters.  I will check to see if some character's collisions are too far extended though.  My personal preference is that basic attacks trade hits and it's the speed they come out at that will determine the winner.  Specials will be different.

Also missfairy has offer to help me code AI, which should boost the lame AI (default Mugen AI) the characters currently have.  Still I'm hoping people who have friends they can play with, go at it and post their videos on youtube so I can see how the characters work in human vs human scenarios.  Just to let you know, the game is catering more towards 1 on 1 play or team KOF style play with 2 on 2 simu being more of a novelty.  Back to Geese.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: la;MISS~FairY-! on January 27, 2008, 02:23:36 am
  I'll see what I can do with some, but I may just release the betas and have people come back and tell me which moves are too low/high priority wise (for example, "Um, swipergod, Rugal's trip beats out everything!  Can you fix that?").  That'll probably be a main fix for the final release versions of all characters.  I will check to see if some character's collisions are too far extended though.  My personal preference is that basic attacks trade hits and it's the speed they come out at that will determine the winner.  Specials will be different.
That's probably the best idea IMO.

You can only determine so much in closed testing, anyway. So it's usually best to reference feedback for final tweaks  :D
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on January 28, 2008, 06:14:01 am
Geese Howard is ready to stand toe to toe with the rest: http://youtube.com/watch?v=GMvVZl12BOU (http://youtube.com/watch?v=GMvVZl12BOU)
As a little bonus, here's Geese's '96 Intro with Terry: http://youtube.com/watch?v=LjDIWgB2Wfg (http://youtube.com/watch?v=LjDIWgB2Wfg)
Edit: Although not visible in the video, I changed Geese's throw so the enemy is planted face first to the ground.

Geese is pretty much the prime example of what I'm trying to do with the game and here's why:

The ridiculously difficult to pull off in pressure situations Rising Storm motion has been replaced with the friendlier (d,f,d,f + p).  To balance the easy motion, Geese loses almost all invinicibility frames.

The deadly rave has become an auto combo and (gasp!) a level 1.  I never understood why SNK forced you to manually input each hit when, say, the Maiden Masher or Dragon Dance did it automatically.  I reduced it to a level 1 because Rock's much more flashy Rave will take the Level 3 prize.  I've given Geese his RB Rashomon that sucked you in from a distance as his level 3 to compensate for the change.

The Counter System.  Unfortunately from what I understand Mugen's reversal.def will not recognize the different between standing moves that need to be blocked high and other standing moves.  As such, in an effort to make the counter system more user friendly, I'm gonna downgrade Geese and Kasumi to the Billy Kane/Blue Mary system.  Low counter will counter all C attacks and Normal S attacks, while high counter will counter all A attacks and Special and Hyper S attacks.  Mid counters will be removed.  To prevent spamming, I've added a window before the counter of 4 frames where the character can still be hit and there's a long recovery should they miss.  So there's still skill involved in the countering.  Once again, with characters like Blue Mary, I don't understand why SNK kept guys like Geese so complex.  For hardcore gamers that's understandable, but if you want a buddy to pick up and play a few rounds with you, it'd be nice to have the variation in the moves rather than the motions.

Geese highlights the differences between my Capcom/SNK mixed style and true SNK style, which from what I've played, KOF zillion seems to be doing quite well (XI style anyway).  I've also decided against the use of a spark.sff because I think it complicated things too much for people who just wanna open the character's up and play.  That'll change once I have a screenpack/final verisons of the characters, but for now, I'll just do the extra work so more people can enjoy.  One more character to go! ;)
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Dark Symphony on January 31, 2008, 03:35:56 am
Geese had more complex counters, I believe, because they were to be more devastating.


I understand what you're trying to do to prevent counter spamming, but really, all those cautions should be taken by having vulnerable frames AFTER the counter. I think windows of vulnerability before a counter make them TOO circumstantial (se: KOF XI Elizabeth).

Geese's raging storm complex motion seemed to just hang around for traditions sake. While the idea of "complex move in exchange for phat damage" is interesting in theory, it doesn't work in competitive games. I'm glad you see that as it took SNK until KOF96 to start to get it and until MOTW to get the hint with Fatal Fury. I see why you'd change the command of the deadly rave but, well, the inputs are kind of what makes the move stand out from the rest. I wonder how players will take to just another Ranbu. Geese comes off as more of a character with calculated strikes, which is demonstrated through the old deadly rave motion. Honestly, i'm on the fence about that move. On one hand, it's interactivity is an attraction, on the other, what's the trade off for so many chances to mess it up?

You know who has a good example of how a rave should be? Dumb@$$ design or not, Momoko's "forced mixup" style rave (Hibiki also kind of had one in CVS2) seems to be how those moves hsould be... auto combos that have varying hit levels that don't necessarily all combo but force mixups for phat hits.

In the end, though, I think FG's should be about how you USE the move, not how you do them. But how will fans take to an ultimate nerfing of one of the deadliest moves in FG history?

Ha... I like to talk about FG's...
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Anzai on January 31, 2008, 05:59:21 am
The deadly rave has become an auto combo and (gasp!) a level 1.  I never understood why SNK forced you to manually input each hit when, say, the Maiden Masher or Dragon Dance did it automatically.
I think, they made it Level 3 + manual input because you can let the standard animation run, and continue comboing, making Deadly Rave more varied, in terms of gameplay.

Auto-combos, on the other hand, rarely are able to be followed up on, unless it's a seperate move (Wolfs Bloom following Maiden Masher).

On topic; I'm kinda looking forward to this, but without watching the videos I don't know what to expect, which would be for the best, really. Mostly so it surprises me when released :P.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Leon Belmont on January 31, 2008, 10:12:22 am
What you're doing to Rising Storm is I guess SNK's approach to Rock's Rising (Raging?) Storm: Rock's Storm has the QCFx2+P command, however he seems to get hit out of it a lot more often and it also takes a while before it comes out. Not to mention Rock's storm has bad range compared to Geese's.

Terry's Power Geyser on the other hand has a QCB,DB,F+P command (slightly more complex), however in his more recent incarnations and with the presence of Rock Howard, his Geyser comes out almost instantly. As opposed to Terry's old Power Geyser, which had the same motion, however took a while to come out. In case you don't get my point; they change the character's supers to make the game(s) more interesting and to give characters more depth and learning value compared to other characters. You don't someone to be like 'hey guise I can use Rock so guess what I can use Terry too! Awesome!'

I don't know if you have Rock planned for your game, but if you are planning to include Rock, I suggest you change Geese's super back to its original form or even better, get it from '96. This way their moves have some significant difference between them. Geese's Storm is supposed to feel different from Rock's and each of them have their advantages and disadvantages for good reasons.

Also I don't think Geese's Storm had any invulnerability to begin with. Whilst the cage in '96 and NBC IINM can cancel out projectiles and hit enemies, Geese is still very much hit-able during the entire super. But there is however I guess a very brief period of invincibility every character gets during their superpause as part of the system or something. Not too sure about that though.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Bastard Mami on January 31, 2008, 06:01:23 pm
there does not seem to be any invulnerability at all besides what the clsns dictate.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on February 02, 2008, 01:48:50 am
Hi Dark Symphony.  I like talking about fighting games too.  I'd like to take a wait and see approach to the opening window for Geese's counters.  The moves are pretty good damage and have the ability of countering hypers (thus even countering moves with invincibility windows like Terry's buster wolf for example for the price of nadda unlike the guard counters, which would still go through the move's invincibility).  Timing should play a key in countering I think (but not something ridiculous like Heidern's counter).  4 frames is 1/4 of a second I think, so it's not so bad and it forces you to vary your offense slightly, so you're not a turtling Geese.  We'll see if that works in practice though.

I'm heavily paranoid about DMs being chainable, because a lot of characters will suffer for their inability to do this.  Already, I worry about Leona cause that damn energy ball of hers can be chained into her V-Slasher for close to 8/10ths of your life.  Each character has a trade off, and Geese is a pretty powerful character as it is, due to his double air fireball ability and double reppuken.  Giving him the ability to "break" the deadly rave, especially at level 1 (for example into fp into a second DR into fp into a RS) may affect balance.  So once again, it'll be played on the wait and see. 

Yeong Woong, Rock will be in the game.  From the alpha of his character I currently have, he's already a much different character (much weaker, which will need to be addressed).  The idea is for him to feel slightly like Geese, much like Robert will feel slightly like Ryo.  Rock is definitely closer to Geese than Terry though.  The difference in their raging storms is that Rock will have some invincibility, but less range, allowing for a more Power Gyser feel and use (minus the distance).  At Level 2 Rock can delay his Storm and it is faster and more reliable than Thunder Rain.  Thunder Rain, however, is unblockable.  There are more minor differences between characters, which should hopefully lend themselves to people preferring one over the other instead of confusing the two.  I don't plan on a Rock release for a while yet though, unless it is demanded of me by the community. 

I'm trying to make a game that would be simple to pick up one character, but hard to master.  There's nothing simple about (db, hcb, df +p), even for a guy who's been fighting since FF Special like me.  Motions shouldn't scare you away from a character.  My philosophy anyway.  I might consider an official change to another, already incorporated, motion like (f,hcf +p) if there's more demand.  Worse comes to worse, people can always go into the files and change it themselves. ;)  Plus, let's not forget that there will be 40 characters in total, so plenty of mastering to do without having to memorize crazy button combinations etc...

I will finish K' this weekend.  There will still be final tweaks and some AI programming if missfairy is still interested before the release.  As usual, I'll keep y'all posted.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: la;MISS~FairY-! on February 02, 2008, 03:33:59 am
I will finish K' this weekend.  There will still be final tweaks and some AI programming if missfairy is still interested before the release.  As usual, I'll keep y'all posted.
Of course! can't wait. ;)
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Leon Belmont on February 02, 2008, 12:26:14 pm
I understand.

Still though, whilst db,hcb,df+P indeed looks scary, it's not a hard command at all. For me, at least.

I can pull it off both on pad and keyboard with very little problems. I actually have more trouble with f,hcf+P (I usually go past the time limit you have to input the command or I end up doing something like Zanretsu Ken with someone like Ryo) and qcb,db,f+P (in characters/games without the d,b,f shortcut, I find it quite difficult to input this motion in certain situations, like trying to do jumping Hou'ou Kyaku with Kim). But that's just me.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Shion on February 02, 2008, 12:34:27 pm
Iv'e been checking up on this topic from time to time, So I thought I'd give a little input.  The Change to the Deadly Rave bothers me alot more than Raging Storm.  Heck, Nightmare Geese by jin has raging storm as a QCFx2 command, and it doesn't bother me one bit.  But deadly rave is just more iconic, you only really used it if you knew you could perform the move.  It's a show-off move, but thats why I enjoy it so much, he has enough other specials that the Deadly rave is more of a bonus to those who actually learn how to play Geese.

Even so I'm looking forward to seeing how you make these characters play though, so I'll definitely check em out. 
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: la;MISS~FairY-! on February 02, 2008, 09:24:33 pm
Iv'e been checking up on this topic from time to time, So I thought I'd give a little input.  The Change to the Deadly Rave bothers me alot more than Raging Storm.  Heck, Nightmare Geese by jin has raging storm as a HCFx2 command, and it doesn't bother me one bit.  But deadly rave is just more iconic, you only really used it if you knew you could perform the move.  It's a show-off move, but thats why I enjoy it so much, he has enough other specials that the Deadly rave is more of a bonus to those who actually learn how to play Geese.

Even so I'm looking forward to seeing how you make these characters play though, so I'll definitely check em out. 
I believe that's what he's trying to move away from, though.

He seems to want to make it so characters don't need to be "learned" In the sense that they have weird movesets or combo DMs you have to know how to preform or you don't get to use them. And instead have it so being good is more based around being good with said character as opposed to being good with said character AND being able to do some weird command.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Shion on February 03, 2008, 12:06:59 am
My point was that Geese has a large enough moveset where having one difficult to perform SDM isn't much of a detriment to a novice player.  I agree that DB, HCB, DF is a pain in the ass to perform, even if you know the motion.  The deadly rave however is quite easy to get started with HCB, F, and the followups are easy to perform if you know what they are.  Though I think getting bumped down to a level 1 DM is worse than changing the command, as the deadly rave has almost always been Geese's strongest attack.


[Edit] Appearantly there were a few games in which Deadly Rave doesn't require manual inputs, It's just been so long I can't rememeber which ones.  So there is precedent for that, I just think it should still be his strongest attack.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on February 03, 2008, 04:30:19 am
Yeong.  Sorry, upon read my response, I think my it might have come off more of a snappy remark than an opinion.  I meant no insult.  I am listening to all comments and suggestions.  Trust me.  We'll see if the motions bother you after you've played the characters a bit.  We'll be in beta testing for a while I think.  As for motions, I've noted that (f,hcf) is difficult to pull off when a character also has a (d,df,f) or even a (f,d,f) motion regardless of what order you place it in.  I've noted that a good solution is to remove times for the latter motions.  Seems to make the (f,hcf) take priority.  All motions will have a 20 frame input time except for charge moves, which will be 15 (seems to make them more crisp).  So hopefully there won't be too much struggling with Karate's Haoh.

Missfairy.  Great.  I'm working on K' right now, but it's gonna take a couple extra days (more to do than I realized).  If all goes well, I can send you the first few characters by next weekend.

Shion.  The key here is balance.  Not just in game, but in terms of pick up and play.  All characters have 2 DM, 1 SDM and 1 HSDM.  The idea is that there shouldn't be a complex move in the mix that cripples the use of a character and thus limits a player access to a full moveset.  I'm hoping you'll give Rashomon a chance.  I was incredibly impressed with it in Real Bout 2, and have tried to mimic that powerful incarnation.  In terms of flash, the HSDMs are big damage and relatively useful, but the super meter builds slow, so usually in a fight you'll only have one shot at connecting with it (Unless you're playing 5 rounds).  So that should hopefully give a player that big feeling of satisfaction when they connect with one.  Plus I just think it'd be lame if Rock and Geese both had a level 1 & 2 Rising Storm and a level 3 (Thus 3 out of 4 moves being exactly the same).  The differences between them would shrink drastically.  And Rock's Shining Knuckle as a Level 3 just doesn't seem to cut it when Terry's more powerful Buster Wolf is out there.

If anyone's curious, Rock's no sound alpha vid is still on youtube along with Geese's vid.  Feel free to compare the two.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Shion on February 03, 2008, 11:44:27 am
Naw, I',m completely willing to test out your revisions, lots of people disagree about semantics, but were all out for the same thing, to have fun.  So no worries there.  And I completely understand about the variety point.  I just look at it from a continuity standpoint, so I see good reasons why Rock should play similarly to Geese.   I'll wait till I actually have a chance to play your version of Geese to comment further, which I'm quite looking forward too. 
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: la;MISS~FairY-! on February 03, 2008, 10:13:12 pm
Missfairy.  Great.  I'm working on K' right now, but it's gonna take a couple extra days (more to do than I realized).  If all goes well, I can send you the first few characters by next weekend.
Alrighty :)

I had a question + suggestion. Are the bosses going to have their original boss syndrome? Or are they going to be more "normal" With high stats, or something.

Also, Kula DM suggestion (Nobody really seemed to do this, so I wondered if it was worth mentioning)

level 1 Dm - her ice world with diana.
level 1 Dm alt - a single diamond spike
SDM - a wave of diamond spikes
HSDM - from 2k2, with foxy, diana, and candy. But maybe edit it a bit so it seems more brutal? -shrug-

Also, I really hope you give her the intros/winposes with her girlfriends. I hate how XI and 2k3 removed them  :(
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on February 04, 2008, 12:18:20 am
So far the only official boss character I've done (Rugal) is just gonna have more invincibility windows.  His moves are already pretty potent/damaging.  I didn't like 2k2 where they had to increase his life/decrease your damage to him to make him challenging.  Orochi will be different than the other 3.  I've got big plans for him.  You and I can talk about it more soon.

Kula is gonna be my toughest challenge and the most radically different character on the roster, which is why she's slated to appear towards the end.  I really like Diana and Foxy, so I'd like to put them in.  The idea I had was for each one to appear in one of her throws (making the ice cube throw a special throw). And her DMs are going to look like this:

DM 1: Kula calls Diana to dash towards the opponent (like a projectile)
DM 2: Kula calls Foxy to slash the opponent up close and then spikes them with a large ice diamond
SDM: A revamp of DM 2 where Kula instead calls both Foxy and Diana to attack (once again only hitting close opponents)
HSDM:  Her ice world super without the Diana pre-attack.  (A screen filling super for a non-boss character should be level 3 only).

I've pretty much conceptualized all 40 characters.  It's just a matter of making them now. :)
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: la;MISS~FairY-! on February 04, 2008, 02:07:35 am
Oooh, I can't wait to talk about Orochi ^^;

Ahh, that sounds very interesting for Kula!
I have one suggestion for those DMs ~ Maybe have dianna preform a uppercut slash attack if she connects for the first one? (Kind of like Mai's chinese music rush DM) It might make it look a bit more "painful" Then her simply dashing past you. ^^;;
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on February 04, 2008, 09:50:42 am
lol.  Actually, because I'm not putting Chris in the game, I was gonna use the fireball sprite from his (d,f,d,f +p) Orochi DM.  So it kinda ends up being like Foxy's Suicide SDM, minus the suicide and explosion.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Bastard Mami on February 04, 2008, 05:17:26 pm
The Counter System.  Unfortunately from what I understand Mugen's reversal.def will not recognize the different between standing moves that need to be blocked high and other standing moves.

iirc, it is clsn based.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on February 09, 2008, 11:41:24 am
Edit:  Here's the K' Vid: http://youtube.com/watch?v=bhzIWFVjTWc (http://youtube.com/watch?v=bhzIWFVjTWc)  More updates coming soon.

Happy days are here.  K' is finished.  I'll post a vid soon.  With the prelims done, I can get to tinkering with the priorities, invinicibilities and the dreaded two in ones.  Barring that I'll also need to double check all credit and missfairy's gonna try to put some AI into these things.  Sorry the delays are stacking up, but we all want a good release and honestly, I underestimated the time it'd take me to do all this.  One thing I can assure you is that they will be release no later than the end of Feb.  Guaranteed.  I'm shooting for 2 weeks though.

Once finished the next batch of 10 will broken up into two releases
The first will include:  Iori, Kasumi, Orochi, Ryo, Angel, Benimaru
The second will be MOTW release and will include: Jenet, Hotaru, Gato, Rock

As I will be taking a big breather and letting people throw me some feedback on the first 10, the next release probably won't be until sometime in late April/May.  The list is subject to change, especially if I can find the Shermie voices I'm missing or figure out how to rip them (I'm dying to make her).
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Dark Symphony on February 19, 2008, 08:43:03 pm
Hi Dark Symphony.  I like talking about fighting games too.  I'd like to take a wait and see approach to the opening window for Geese's counters.  The moves are pretty good damage and have the ability of countering hypers (thus even countering moves with invincibility windows like Terry's buster wolf for example for the price of nadda unlike the guard counters, which would still go through the move's invincibility).  Timing should play a key in countering I think (but not something ridiculous like Heidern's counter).  4 frames is 1/4 of a second I think, so it's not so bad and it forces you to vary your offense slightly, so you're not a turtling Geese.  We'll see if that works in practice though.



Trust me. In fighting games, it's bad to have conflicting elements because you either get overpowered things or useless things. For the latter, think of Elizabeth's counter in XI.

You do not want to tweak a defensive ability (counters) to promote an offensive type of play. If you want to discourage people from turtling with counters, take the counters out. If you want counters to not be overpowered, lower their damage. Don't make their applications too hard otherwise you'll just end up with a bunch of moves that will go unused, which, to me, is like my worst nightmare. It's what I try to avoid the most when making a character.

In CVS2, Geese could counter nigh instantly and he could counter almost anything that wasn't a projectile, even Shin Akuma's MAX super. Yet he wasn't even close to being the best in the game nor were his counters abuseable. The dangers that counter characters present is that you can't be predictable against them and you can't rely on  repetitions of moderately safe strings. It's a good danger to present but it's offset, usually, by the fact that you not only have to guess the move, but the height it's hitting at (high, mid, low) AND when it's coming.

WIth a window before the counter, you not only have to know when it's coming, but you have to know it before, so you can't even time it iwth an attack. Any move 3 frames or under can't be countered unless the counter comes out before hand and any move blocked will create uncounterable situations if it leave enough frame advantage to allow for quick follow ups.

Counters should be the bane to predictable moves and strings. If you want to discourage players from sitting back and countering, simply remove the counters. Don't limit them to where they become a novelty rather than a practicality.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: la;MISS~FairY-! on February 19, 2008, 09:33:49 pm
Edit:  Here's the K' Vid: http://youtube.com/watch?v=bhzIWFVjTWc (http://youtube.com/watch?v=bhzIWFVjTWc)  More updates coming soon.

Happy days are here.  K' is finished.  I'll post a vid soon.  With the prelims done, I can get to tinkering with the priorities, invinicibilities and the dreaded two in ones.  Barring that I'll also need to double check all credit and missfairy's gonna try to put some AI into these things.  Sorry the delays are stacking up, but we all want a good release and honestly, I underestimated the time it'd take me to do all this.  One thing I can assure you is that they will be release no later than the end of Feb.  Guaranteed.  I'm shooting for 2 weeks though.

Once finished the next batch of 10 will broken up into two releases
The first will include:  Iori, Kasumi, Orochi, Ryo, Angel, Benimaru
The second will be MOTW release and will include: Jenet, Hotaru, Gato, Rock

As I will be taking a big breather and letting people throw me some feedback on the first 10, the next release probably won't be until sometime in late April/May.  The list is subject to change, especially if I can find the Shermie voices I'm missing or figure out how to rip them (I'm dying to make her).
Yay, nice to see k'.

And of course I'm still willing ;)
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on February 22, 2008, 12:09:49 am
My apologies for such a lack of updates.  I have to be honest, I've been wrapped up in another project of mine (a writing thing), and haven't had the chance yet to get to work on those tweeks.  I'm still shooting for the end of Feb though.  Missfairy you'll be the first to know when the completions start racking up.

Dark Symphony, I will sincerely take your words under advisement.  While I have enjoyed Geese as is right now and don't find his counters useless, I could be one among many here.  But he'll have to be tested first.  I know what you're saying with Elizabeth, but I've made Geese's counter more like Blue Mary's/Billy Kane's/Rock's and I doubt you could say those counters are completely useless.  2 things to understand: 1) Mugen's reversal def doesn't work like CVS2 counter system from what I understand.  It groups all Standing normal moves into one category for example and doesn't allow for exceptions unless I make counters character specific and that would take forever to code. 2) Geese only has 2 counters now, not 3, so the amount of guessing the player has to do in anticipating an attack goes down.  These factors are part of what I considered when I decided to add the 4 opening frames.  For now, only DM Counters will have immediate counter properties.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Dark Symphony on February 24, 2008, 12:13:48 pm
Yeah, I get what you're saying. I'm just not sure what you're trying to accomplish. I see many other feasible avenues to take as far as balancing counters.

CVS2's counter system WORKS the same although it might be programmed different. I'm not speaking about the coding so much as the in-game application. Is it your goal to have situations where a move cannot be countered even though you had time to input a counter command in and have the counter execute before you were attacked? And what will a player think when they see the move come out and hear the sound, if any, and still get hit?

Just some things to think about. Counters are weird. People are so used to them working a certain way, you know?

I'm actually just waiting for you to release ther character batches. I'm excited for that.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on February 24, 2008, 10:43:23 pm
I hope they won't disappoint most (can't please everyone ;)).  I'm also excited about the release because then I can get some in depth feedback and with a little luck, some more people might take an interest in helping me out (the more help I get the faster I can release new characters).

Okay, so I've completed King's tweaking and 2 in 1s.  I now have a blueprint for the others.  Now I will place her in the hands of missfairy for a little AI magic.  I expect to finish the remaining tweaking in the next week or so.  I will keep you all updated.

Edit: Kim is now finished as well.

As for future releases, I think I'll divide the 2 I've mentioned into 3.  Less pressure for me and less wait time for all of you.  Cheers!
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on February 28, 2008, 01:40:31 am
Terry, Karate, Geese and Mai are on the verge of completion.  missfairy has also started on the AI for Kim and King.  On a personal victory note, I've managed to solve the sexy ko problems I had with projectiles (formerly a projectile hit wouldn't cause a sexy ko) by changing the line:
enemy, hitdefattr = SCA,SA,HA,SP,HP
to
enemy, stateno >= 3000
There are still problems with bind attacks and targetstate attacks though.  I'll have to change all HT to some value that can be omitted by (enemy, stateno <= ), but I have to figure how to do that without screwing up what little organization I have with the characters.

Other bells and whistles I've added are H's flashing red screen KO + sound effect when someone is killed with a DM and the counter spark for counter attacks.

I also wanted to let you know that I'll be adding a little fan fiction in the pdf file.  Think of it as an alternate version of the KOF mythos (like marvel's ultimate universe).  I love to write and it won't take me long, so hopefully some of you will enjoy the alternate take.  For those who don't want to be bothered, the fan fiction will be included at the bottom of the PDF, so that you don't have to read it if you're just looking for moves.  The character specific blurbs will be in the profile section though.  Sorry.  If I can manage to complete the 4 above tomorrow, I should be on good pace to complete them all this weekend.  Then it'll be some quick credit roundup, missfairy's AI upgrades and we'll be ready to roll, 1 week late, but at least it's not 2. ;)
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on March 01, 2008, 07:08:29 am
Well Terry, Geese and Mai are complete.  Finishing up Karate.  Also, after some head scratching and minor bugs, missfairy and I finally got King's AI up and running.  Missfairy's got some really good code.  It managed to give Sander's Benimaru a run for his money.  While some might not be impressed that fact alone, I'd just like to point out that this is a huge improvement over the pathetically sad default AI that King used to have.  Once missfairy's finished up the final touches on King and another fighter, I'll post a video of an AI battle.  Thank you very much missfairy and R[E]ika for your willful and wonderful contributions to this project.  It's really a lot more than it was when I started.  Cheers! 
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on March 02, 2008, 06:42:01 am
Sorry for the sling of updates, but as we come to the end of prep and towards the beta releases, things are starting to pick up quickly.  I've pretty much done Rugal, which leaves only K' and Whip left to tweak.  After playing against the final product of missfairy's AI for King though, I've decided to postpone the release until missfairy can give AI to all of them.  The code is really good and challenging and really adds to each character.  Missfairy's tackling Mai, Terry and Kim right now, so we'll keep you updated as more AI come to completion.

I'll also be posting a video with myself fighting against King.  Hopefully I don't embarrass myself. ;)

Edit: Me fighting as Terry vs King with missfairy's AI: http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZqjrGsOr17g (http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZqjrGsOr17g)
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on March 05, 2008, 12:26:51 am
Okay everybody.  All characters are completed tweaks and await further testing.  Mai and King's AI are finished, so we're just waiting for the final 8.  While you wait, I'll be uploading a relatively simple intro for any screenpack.  It's a 5 second flash of the SNK logo I made. It's not much, but it's simple for those of you who, like me, currently have no intro (or one that satisfies).  It'll be posted on megaupload (I'll post the link once it's up and post it in the releases), so grab it if you want.

Edit: Link here: http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=76515.new#new (http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=76515.new#new)
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Dark Symphony on March 10, 2008, 07:47:39 pm
While I applaud your efforts, perhaps you would want to have the characters tested for bugs before implementing AI that could have elements based around flawed iterations?

That's the way i've always seen it done...
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Bastard Mami on March 10, 2008, 07:59:19 pm
should not be too big of a problem, you can see it the other way, teh ai code cna help to stop bugs.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on March 11, 2008, 05:19:24 am
The reason the wait has been a little long than expected is because Missfairy and I have been tirelessly checking AI for bugs and odd instances.  Like R[E]ika mentioned, fighting the AI has allowed me the chance to uncover quite a few things that we missed, and Missfairy will tell you that I can be a little anal when it comes to details like AI producing unnatural moves and combos...  Aside for some 2 in 1s that human players won't be able to do, I have let nothing slide, as far I have been able to catch.  There will be more, no doubt, but at least there will be less.

An update.  4 AIs are now complete.  Difficulty per character varies.  I am also slowly making my way through Iori.  I do not want to release him without Kasumi, so we'll see if Missfairy or myself finishes first.  It might end up missing the initial beta release though.  I've put it off for far too long already, so I won't hold back for 2 extra characters that can be released later.  Everything else is set.  Another week and a bit hopefully.  Also, sadly, my fanfic will not be a part of the release.  After completing over 20 pages and still not finishing, I feel it's too long for such a small release.  Maybe in the future.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: -SyLar- on March 11, 2008, 08:43:18 am
yeah miss fairy posted a few AI related problems on MI she seems to be coming across some strange problems with her AI coding.

offtopic question: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0h_jnTnxyxM wat kof moveset is that hyper from where mai does the spinning fan attack in the air?
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on March 11, 2008, 11:45:01 am
While the code seemed clear before the AI, Missfairy and I found some things wouldn't trigger, others would get the characters stuck in a loop etc whe the AI used the characters.  I've been able to fix behavioral problems caused either by Missfairy trying out experimental coding and forgetting to remove their triggers afterward, my wrong labeling of statenos for AI triggers and the fact that some moves need a special AI variable (9) changestate code to trigger their 2nd or 3rd states.

M:ken, the spinning fan move was originally from RB2 as her P. Power Super.  They brought it in for KOF '98 as RB Mai's DM and SDM (the version of Mai where you have to hold start to select her).  They also used it in KOF '99 as a main DM.  I picked up the code from Jin's Mai (modifying it slightly). The flaming version is my creation and was never in a KOF or FF game.  Since the move reminds me of Ken's Shinryuken, I thought the SDM should resemble the strongest version of that move (Capcom vs series).
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Bastard Mami on March 11, 2008, 04:32:58 pm
yeah miss fairy posted a few AI related problems on MI she seems to be coming across some strange problems with her AI coding.

offtopic question: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0h_jnTnxyxM wat kof moveset is that hyper from where mai does the spinning fan attack in the air?

link, kthnxplz
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: la;MISS~FairY-! on March 11, 2008, 06:26:12 pm
yeah miss fairy posted a few AI related problems on MI she seems to be coming across some strange problems with her AI coding.

offtopic question: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0h_jnTnxyxM wat kof moveset is that hyper from where mai does the spinning fan attack in the air?
Nah it wasn't with my coding.

It was just I didn't know how to get a few things to work.  ;P
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: -SyLar- on March 11, 2008, 06:51:06 pm
yeah miss fairy posted a few AI related problems on MI she seems to be coming across some strange problems with her AI coding.

offtopic question: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0h_jnTnxyxM wat kof moveset is that hyper from where mai does the spinning fan attack in the air?

link, kthnxplz

http://www.mugen-infantry.net/forum/index.php?topic=98445.0
http://www.mugen-infantry.net/forum/index.php?topic=98400.0

^^ those problems are most probably sorted by now but this one was the strangest everyone that tried to help cudnt figure it out lol

http://www.mugen-infantry.net/forum/index.php?topic=97228.0
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: la;MISS~FairY-! on March 11, 2008, 07:24:27 pm
yeah miss fairy posted a few AI related problems on MI she seems to be coming across some strange problems with her AI coding.

offtopic question: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0h_jnTnxyxM wat kof moveset is that hyper from where mai does the spinning fan attack in the air?

link, kthnxplz

http://www.mugen-infantry.net/forum/index.php?topic=98445.0
http://www.mugen-infantry.net/forum/index.php?topic=98400.0

^^ those problems are most probably sorted by now but this one was the strangest everyone that tried to help cudnt figure it out lol

http://www.mugen-infantry.net/forum/index.php?topic=97228.0
Those have all since been resolved. (I need to upload those titles)

I wanted to let those interested know, too. That these AIs are supposed to replicate KOF games with improvements. (Lots of evasion, special use, ect) - They're not supposed to play like people. So hopefully nobody takes issue. --;
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on March 11, 2008, 11:49:23 pm
The powerdrain issue was actually a coding issue that allowed King to skip the state with the Superpause and negative poweradd and go straight into the move itself.  It was discovered that the second state was sharing the same stateno as a random integer for the AI, so I switched the AI numbers.  We'll post here and on the help boards here if we run into problems that leaves us stumped.  So far the only problem worth mentioning is that we couldn't figure out how to get Rugal to counter fireballs with his barrier, without severely crippling his AI.  It's not a big deal though as he's still pretty though as is.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on March 13, 2008, 01:17:05 am
As I find myself working with a lot of sprites with Iori, I've decided to post the main sprite request for my project.  I will post this further back on the "required" list on page 3 and in the paint request section, but if there are any good artists looking to take up this challenge here, your help would be much appreciated as this is far beyond my skill level.

(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj119/swipergod/rob.gif)

I'd say Iori's about 30% right now.  AIs are approaching 50%.  Kasumi should be a breeze, so we'll see who ends up beating who. ;)
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on March 17, 2008, 02:33:49 am
Quick progress report:

AIs are roughly at 70%.  Once Geese and K' are finished, only Leona, Karate and Kim will remain.
Iori is at 65%.  There are a lot of sprites missing and it's gobbled up a lot of time hunting them down.  Things should pick up in the next day or so.

Just an fyi for all the people waiting for the betas.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on March 19, 2008, 03:46:56 am
Update:

Iori and Kasumi will officially be joining the beta line up for a total of 12 characters.  I've made you wait far longer than you should have, so why not reward you all for your patience.  I was prompted to this decision by my extreme joy with the way Iori turned out.  Look for a video some time tomorrow.  AIs near 80% completetion.  New ETA:  Mid next week.  Hang on just a little longer folks.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on March 20, 2008, 09:56:14 am
Iori is complete and awaits AI coding from Missfairy.  Here's a link:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ut-C3a3F8fs (http://youtube.com/watch?v=ut-C3a3F8fs)

Kasumi's already 35% done and now only Kim, Karate, Iori and Kasumi remain to be AI coded.  Still looking like a release next week.  I will be posting the 2 other major sprite requests for my project in the next couple of days as well.  If there are any artist out there looking to lend a hand, please contact me.

Because Iori and Kasumi are coming out with the rest of the group, the next update pack will include Angel, Chizuru, Ryo and Joe.  I won't be starting that until sometime in April (ready need a Mugen breather).  I will post again when Kasumi's complete.  Cheers.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Cybaster on March 20, 2008, 10:15:36 am
Looks nice.

Watching the video, I saw that the last HDSM Iori performed gave him back some power. Since this is really a common mistake and easy fix, I'd advice you to check all the characters and perform all the DM/SDM/HSDM to see if they don't give back power to the character. ;)
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: K.O.D on March 20, 2008, 04:07:17 pm
I don't think you should be using zzasd's k',since its inaccurate on many points and has alot of standard k' combos missing,unless you fixed them.

Also,Sniper Side shouldn't knock down and Heaven's drive is missing.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: la;MISS~FairY-! on March 20, 2008, 06:06:04 pm
I don't think you should be using zzasd's k',since its inaccurate on many points and has alot of standard k' combos missing,unless you fixed them.

Also,Sniper Side shouldn't knock down and Heaven's drive is missing.

Heaven Drive wasn't a good DM, anyway.

K' is one of the nicest ones I've played. (I was never a big K' player, but even I was doing some real fancy stuff with him) - He's absolutely a keeper as is.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: K.O.D on March 20, 2008, 06:14:55 pm
K' is one of the most technical characters (a top-tier character when utilized by a skilled player) and zzasd's k' is very unaccurate on some vital points which affect gameplay by a large degree.

I am coding a k' myself because of the lack of an accurate k' and i am a skilled k' player,i should know :P

Heaven's drive is a very useful DM (making it 100% safe when super-canceled from a crow bite)
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on March 20, 2008, 06:30:08 pm
VPO Cybaster.  Thanks.  I assumed I missed that on a few characters.  I'll do a final roundup and make sure that glitch is corrected.

K.O.D.  I only use zzzasd's code as a blueprint for animations, sounds and some attack parameters.  None of my characters are close to their original, but because the original author is the original author, they get credit for that.  So none of the glitches transfer because states have been altered, moves have been altered, commands have been altered, triggers have been altered etc...  I do a lot of work on these, I'm not just taking the base and tossing them into some random game with new moves.  That's what separates my alphas from my betas.  I kept all the DMs that I thought worked well with K' and added a new one.  I'm not a fan of Capcom style supers when a character does 3 specials in a row.  I find that to be lazy and uninspired on their part.  I like KOF more because the DMs were so different (a least earlier on.  The newer KOFs seem to have taken a step backward).  Sniper Side isn't in this game.  I used its animation for his CD attack  These are all artistic liberties done to create balance and out of personal preference.  I'm not making game accurate characters (that's why they called KOFE instead of XI or '98), I'm just trying to replicate the feel of KOF gameplay.  There are plenty of game accurate attempts out there already.  All characters are new and some (not all) are very different.  Though, you are always welcome to change the character to suit your own needs if you don't like how they come out. ;)

Please note:  I am trying to remove "tiers" as part of the balancing.  Ideally any one character should be able to beat another depending on the player's skill.  Tiers are broken features in fighting games that balance in favor of certain characters and I don't what people not picking Whip because K' can kick her butt 9 times out of 10.

Missfairy, be nice. :)  You're the only one who has actually played the characters.  Let others speculate and voice concerns now and we'll see if they still have those concerns later on. :D
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: la;MISS~FairY-! on March 20, 2008, 06:32:11 pm
Missfairy, be nice. :)  You're the only one who has actually played the characters.  Let others speculate and voice concerns now and we'll see if they still have those concerns later on. :D
Oh, I was.

I just figured I'd throw my input in ;D <3
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: K.O.D on March 20, 2008, 06:39:20 pm
Understood,good luck.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: devilmanozzy on March 20, 2008, 06:55:10 pm
Cool project, looking forward to the game.

Yes I posted so I can watch this thread! ;D
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: RunningWild on March 20, 2008, 06:55:57 pm
What version will Ryo be based on?
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on March 20, 2008, 08:00:26 pm
Since Mr. Karate (Takuma version) is going to be in the game and for the sake of variety between the 4 kokyugen fighters, Ryo will maintain his '98 version 1 (the one without long range fireballs).  He will, however, have his autoguard unique moves and his Super Punch will work more like it did in CVS (the first one).  More damage off the bat, but even more if it hits an attacking opponent.  I would have loved to use his Mr. Karate NBC sprites, but they're missing too many animations.  Cirio's Ryo is pretty solid so if you have that one, you'll have an idea of what to expect from mine.

Glad your looking forward to this devilmanozzy.  I'm looking forward to the release myself.  There'll be a lot of bug caught and such, but I think most people will enjoy these characters.

I'm considering releasing the PDF early so people can take a look and see what kind of game they can expect and what moves to expect from the characters.  Like a preview.  I have to check on progress with missfairy first though to make sure that next week is a viable release time.

To better illustrate the style of gameplay I'm leaning towards ('98), I've posted this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2imtjUst3bM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2imtjUst3bM)

Note that there are no Dream Cancels or long chain combos.  Just simple 2 in 1s and strategy is based more on effective uses of moves.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: RunningWild on March 20, 2008, 08:12:36 pm
V.F made some edited NGBC Ryo/Mr.Karate that includes some extra animations, you might wanna take a look, its in the sprite resources section towards the bottom I believe. I'd love to see Ryo with his NGBC spriteset. But anyways, Cirio's Ryo is pretty good and works well. One question though - Will his Kouou Shippuken (HCB+Punch) have autoguard properties?

I also like the fact your keeping the gameplay 98-like, since thats my favorite KOF.  No overwhelming combo's or cancels, just good old fashioned brawling with alot of focus on proper timing.

I'll be keeping my eyes on this project, it has me interested.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Bastard Mami on March 20, 2008, 08:35:19 pm
ryo would be interesting as long as he keeps his fwd and downfwd + B parries, preferably as they wre in kofxi. i.e., cancellabel to any special attack on success, cancellable to another parry if pressing fwd or dwnfwd+ B, cancellable to standing if only pressing B, giving you a few ticks of invulnerability in the non-special cancels.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: RunningWild on March 20, 2008, 08:40:57 pm
Yeah that would be totally rad. (http://youtube.com/watch?v=31UL5YLQsKw)
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: #Shaun on March 20, 2008, 08:44:35 pm
Yeah that would be totally rad. (http://youtube.com/watch?v=31UL5YLQsKw)

Damn that's cheap
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Bastard Mami on March 20, 2008, 08:48:13 pm
nah, the risk is VERY high, the parry is not insta parry, it takes a few tick until it can actually parry, you are also vulnerable after it, time wise  let's say you are 30% vulnerable, 50% parry, 20% vulnerable.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: RunningWild on March 20, 2008, 08:51:33 pm
It's Hard as hell to do, and you still take block damage for it. The timing is very strict, and you gotta be quick if you wanna follow up the parry. Some of Ryo's other moves that have some autoguard in them like his Zanretsuken is even harder to time right, although in some games like SvC Chaos, Kouhou Shippuken had tons of autoguard, you could ram straight through some attacks with it.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: #Shaun on March 20, 2008, 08:56:39 pm
<=== Someone who's obviously never played KOF XI.

So the entire animation isn't CLSNed to parry..
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Bastard Mami on March 20, 2008, 09:01:43 pm
as you said. from kof 2000 to kof neowave, including kof 2002 it can't be cancelled to another parry or to neutral, only to specials, also it does not add any invincibility to you.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on March 21, 2008, 07:50:55 am
Headspin with all the Ryo info.  I wasn't aware the parry cancel ability.  Admittedly, I've played XI very little.  I figured it should have some follow up techniques, otherwise you're better off blocking, but I'd have to agree with the post that cancelling into anything has balancing issues.  I'll look into it when time comes for Ryo to hit the operation table.  Thanks for the suggestion guys.

Wild Tengu, I will look into the sprite sets and see if it's possible to bring NBC Ryo over.  I'd have at least preferred to use the 2k1 on sprite set (with feet guards), but I haven't found enough edits for those either.  The hcb move will not be included in this Ryo's moveset.  Ryo is a very strong character as is with 5 moves.  I'll be tweaking the invincibility in the dragon punch to make it even more threatening and yes, both version of the zan retsu ken will have autoguard (he won't have the uppercut version to differentiate him from Karate, but will have a regular and wire hit version).  Takuma's versions both juggle, but have no autoguard.  Robet's version will do slightly more damage for having no special abilities. 

I'm really trying to underline the differences between each Kyokugen fighter, even down to their fireballs.  For example, Ryo's fierce fireball has him moving forward to cover more distance, while Yuri doesn't move much at all, but her fireball travels further to compensate.  Robert will have a higher fireball and a lower fireball that will both travel full screen at fast speeds and Takuma has your generic full screen slow/fast.  Note on Robert, he won't be kicking his fireballs (that looked wrong to an old school fan like me).  SNK has done a lot to separate these characters, but not all in the same game (and went a bit overboard with kick only Robert).  I'm gonna try and bring the best of all versions into this one game.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on March 22, 2008, 04:37:31 am
Happy Easter for those who are celebrating it.  With the way progress is going, and the fact that missfairy finds next week to be a fair target, I will be releasing the final PDF will accompany my beta release a bit early for those who are interested and want to know the info about the game, credits etc...  I won't be posting it in releases, only here on this topic as it will be a part of the official release as well.  This is more of a sneak peek.  I will complete Kasumi first though.  She'll most likely be done tomorrow.  For the pdf, feel free to comment, give thoughts etc...  That's it for now.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on March 22, 2008, 10:42:40 am
Kasumi is finished.  Iori's AI is more or less done.  Look for a link to both Kasumi and the PDF to be posted here some time tomorrow.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on March 22, 2008, 11:19:44 pm
Kasumi's Vid is up here:http://youtube.com/watch?v=nwyq9ORvozE (http://youtube.com/watch?v=nwyq9ORvozE)

As a bonus, I've thrown up a team AI battle here so you can see KOFE in action: http://youtube.com/watch?v=iq9DYpCSK_w (http://youtube.com/watch?v=iq9DYpCSK_w)

missfairy's AI is very tough, but shines more against human players than against other KOFE AI opponents.  Note that in this video, you are seeing the unfinished Iori AI and Kasumi AI.  We are also working to revamp Whip, which is why she was left out of this video.

I will post a link to the PDF file in a little bit and would appreciate any and all feedbacks, suggestions and comments.  Thanks. :)

Edit:  Here you are ladies and gents.  This is the instructions and credits manual for the upcoming beta release:
http://files.filefront.com/KOFEpdf/;9872872;/fileinfo.html (http://files.filefront.com/KOFEpdf/;9872872;/fileinfo.html)
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on March 23, 2008, 06:24:14 am
This is the 2nd major sprite edit request I have.  Converting Foxy to Diana basically.  This is what stops me from doing Kula at the moment.  I know that Alex and Tooya0 from Mugen Brazil were making a Diana that had this exact sprite edit, but no one seems to have that Diana as it was not release and it seems to have been cancelled.  I tried contacting Tooya0, but got no response.

(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj119/swipergod/fox.gif)
NOTE:  This isn't the full sized image.  That can be found here: http://s270.photobucket.com/albums/jj119/swipergod/?action=view&current=fox.gif (http://s270.photobucket.com/albums/jj119/swipergod/?action=view&current=fox.gif)

Here is a link to the Diana that has this sprite edit:  http://youtube.com/watch?v=poW_E5ZUej0 (http://youtube.com/watch?v=poW_E5ZUej0)
If anyone has it, it would be a big step forward for this project.  Or if someone'd like to give the edit a try, then please.

This request is also being posted on page 3 with the other.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on March 25, 2008, 02:09:07 am
Well just a quick little update.  Kasumi's AI will be finished today.  That leaves just 2 more to go.  Still on track for a release this week.  Hurrah! 

Also, for those who skip the first page and miss the little updates I post there, I have added Krauser to the mix.  I will use his '96 sprites, but try to give him most of his RBS moveset and velocities as that was the better version of Krauser imo.  What the hell is he doing cartwheeling all over the place anyway?  Wild Tengu is right, Krauser.  You got no class.  The idea is to make him a boss character truer to his kick your butt FF2/FFS self.  Kaiser Wave will rule all.  It's big news for me at least, cause Krauser is my favorite boss character and one of my all time fighting game favs.  He will join Yuri, Andy and hopefully Robert (pending the sprite edits) to cap off the 1/2 mark of the beta characters. :)  That would complete Team AOF (Karate, Ryo, Robert and Yuri) and FF (Terry, Andy, Joe and Mai).  The MofW characters will be pushed to a later release.  Cheers.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Cybaster on March 25, 2008, 10:05:09 am
Everything seems really nice from what I could see. The moveset is okay so far, nothing unbalanced and all characters seem to have decent moves so far. :)
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on March 25, 2008, 09:31:34 pm
Thanks VPO.  You should be playing them come this weekend.  :sugoi:  Then, you'll have more to work with and comment on.  Hopefully, they'll live up to people's expectations.  Missfairy seems to like them at least.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on March 28, 2008, 01:55:47 am
Official Beta Characters Release: 03/29/08.  Well, it's been a long time coming.  Hopefully some of you will like the modified old school gamplay.  Movesets will are unique to Mugen KOF Edition as are game mechanics.  I look forward to feedback.  My strength is in move creation, so there's probably a lot of little mechanical issues like corner push velocities and such that will need minor adjustments.  Also, because I've been doing 10 characters at once, I have have missed misc things like some guard sounds or hit sparks, so hopefully some people will be an eye out.

Also, I've done my first attempt at remodeling my KOFE version of Kyo.  Because the 99-2k2 version has more sprites than 2k3/XI, it'll just be a whole lot easier to use them.  What bothered me was the fact that the 99-2k2 version didn't have the sun on his back, so I've added it to make my Kyo unique.

Normal Kyo:
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj119/swipergod/k1.gif)

Edited Kyo:
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj119/swipergod/k2.gif)

Any thoughts on this edit, while we wait the last 2 days before the release?  I personally don't like the black sun, but yellow doesn't show up so nice on the white jacket.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: la;MISS~FairY-! on March 28, 2008, 02:07:14 am
Wow that edit is super sexy. <3

I'd just leave it black. Gold/yellow will be hard as hell to see >.>""
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on March 29, 2008, 07:17:41 pm
Thanks missfairy.  Kyo will be part of the 2 character 3rd release to help celebrate the 1/2 point (when I get to it).  It'll be him and Orochi.  Hurray!

The betas are ready for downloading and testing.  Link to the download thread is here:

http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=77659.0 (http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=77659.0)

Hopefully you guys will enjoy and lets make sure to keep this thread the main thread for big technical issues and discussion.  Thanks everybody.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Shion on March 30, 2008, 03:00:45 pm
Preliminary feedback.

K' created a clone when hit out of his SDM Heaven's Drive by a projectile.

Guardtimes seem too long on some special attacks (noticed on Iori), as if they were coded for DOSmugen.

King and geese AI is a bit projectile spammy, Terry AI seems to abuse rising tackle in corners.

That's all I noticed so far, But I thought I'd post to let you know.  I'll add more feedback when I get a chance to play with them longer.

Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on March 30, 2008, 08:15:00 pm
Hi Shion.  Good to hear from ya.  So that K' clone issue still exists huh.  I thought I got rid of it.  It has something to do with the sunglasses helper I know (using a code or animation that doesn't exist).  Guess I fixed the wrong code.  Hard for me to test all by my lonesome.  Guardtime will be examined.  I've fixed Terry, but other will be looked into.  AI issues come from missfairy still learning the ropes with some code executions (I have very limited AI knowledge myself).  I'll pass on the info.  Missfairy's already working on a new AI base for future releases, so that should hopefully help out a bit.  Thanks for the info.  Look forward to hearing more.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: la;MISS~FairY-! on March 30, 2008, 08:29:05 pm
Preliminary feedback.

K' created a clone when hit out of his SDM Heaven's Drive by a projectile.

Guardtimes seem too long on some special attacks (noticed on Iori), as if they were coded for DOSmugen.

King and geese AI is a bit projectile spammy, Terry AI seems to abuse rising tackle in corners.

That's all I noticed so far, But I thought I'd post to let you know.  I'll add more feedback when I get a chance to play with them longer.


Geese is supposed to use reppuken quite a bit.

King is supposed to use projectiles as distractions/cover fire. Or spam them for people who try to hang back too much.

Not sure if that's what you mean, though. If it's something else let me know^^
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on April 15, 2008, 01:31:59 am
I'm a little disheartened that I didn't receive much of any feedback save from a few people (although a few have told me their feedback is coming).  Oh well, c'est la vie.  My project continues on.  I've almost recharged my battery and will be ready to take on the next 4 characters in about a week or so.  Actually Chizuru's already started, but just the preliminary stuff.  She's gonna be one of, if not THE hardest character to mod.  Sander's Chizuru is the model.  I'm hoping to make her more horrifying than her '96 days.  With Rugal's success, I'm sure it'll work out.

I will keep you all posted, as I always have and will continue to patiently wait for suggestions, feedback, etc...  If all goes according to plan, the next 4 will be ready for download somewhere around mid May.  Missfairy's still gonna be doing the AI and she's hoping for a little feedback herself.  Look for more updates soon.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: ~*Ishida-Uryuu*~ on April 15, 2008, 04:36:47 am
For K's clone problem, try either removing the sunglasses Clsn2, or give the sunglasses a nothitby, if they don't already. Make sure that they aren't hit by projectiles with NP, SP, or HP. The latter is probably the better option.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on April 15, 2008, 10:37:00 am
Thanks.  I remember having this problem when I was fooling around with a few screenpacks.  Helpers would pop up for first attack and could be "hit".   zzzasd put a reversedef instead of a nothitby and for some reason I thought it'd work if I had hit trigger a new state that I had created.  I was wrong.  Ishida-Uryuu, your plan B sound like a mighty fine idea.  Because it's such an obvious problem I'll re-release K' once it's fixed along with the other 4 characters.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on April 19, 2008, 10:32:40 am
Chizuru should be done sometime tomorrow I'm thinking.  She was a real beating to edit.  I created a new SDM from that took a whole 7 hours to program correctly.  Definitely grown at a programmer a bit, cause there'd have been no way I coulda done that a few months back without yanking out all my hair.  Sander's code was really clear on how to do all the mirror images.  I created a new teleport style move similar to Maki's from 03 minus the reflect ball at the end.  Well, I'll update this post when I've got a vid.  Should be in the next day or two.  I'll be starting Ryo in a few.  He'll be my breather cause he shouldn't be too hard to manage.  Then I'll do Angel and Joe.  Cheers.  ;D
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Shion on April 19, 2008, 10:45:40 am
Doesn't seem like theres many people testing this, you should probably use the releases section for feedback on your next release, since it seems like more people check there.

Anyway, I couldn't find any more bugs.  But I do have a definite impression of your characters now.

After playing quite some time I started disliking the Fatal Fury supersparks, just doesn't feel like KoF.

I think the AI on the whole is a little to "perfect", Some characters Roll too much, and it's almost impossible to even hit them once.  I don't know if you like AI that hard, but it can get annoying after playing against them a while.  I'll go over each character individually with what particular things I dislike, and what I feel are problems.



Rugal:  Well, you've emulated SNK Boss mode here quite nicely on both AI and Move fronts.  He's fine I guess, since he is a boss, so you should probably leave him as is.

Geese:  Easier than Rugal, doesn't overuse roll, so thats good.  Spams Repuken's alot at range, and doesn't use Jaeiken very much.  Deadly Rave does too much damage for a level 1 super IMO, halving the last hit would be perfect. 

Kasumi:  Her unblockable auto-combo is pretty cheap, which isn't helped by the fact that the AI spams it on cornered opponents.  Also her DM Unblockable command grab could use some sprite edits as it looks kind of funky.

King:  King has a lot of auto-combos and the AI uses them a lot, also she uses roll way to much.  The projectile use is less a problem then I initially thought as she won't use them up close, instead she'll just spam roll until she can get an auto-combo off.  Smart play from a human opponent, but not well suited to an AI that can do it reliably all day long.

Mr. Karate:  Pretty balanced character here, Only have 2 problems with him.  He uses Zanretsuken to much trying to get falling opponents.  Secondly I'm not liking the Hadouken sprites for the Haohshouken.

Mai:  No problems here, can be quite tough to beat sometimes, but doesn't rely on any one move more than others that I've seen.

Kim: oh boy, this guy abuses his ground stomp, he uses this way to much, followed by his rising attack.  If you can get him to vary his moves a bit more I think he would be great.

Terry:  As I mentioned before he uses Rising Tackle to much.  I think he'd be great other than that.

Whip:  Played fine to me, no suggestions I can think of.

K`:  K` uses his "roll" a little bit to much, no other problems

Iori:  Nothing stood out here, seems okay.

These are my personal opinions of these characters, a lot of it is subjective, so keep that in mind.

Also, I want to add that I like what your doing, and look forward to your next release.

Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on April 19, 2008, 11:16:42 pm
Hey Shion.  Good to see ya again.  And thank you for taking the time to write such a large response.  Personally, I love the MotW sparks.  I'm not as big a fan of the RB HSDM spark, but I've gotten used to it, and it's the only thing out there that I can think of that is "bigger" than the garou P.Power spark.

I also wasn't big on the Shinkuu Hadouken being Karate's big fireball.  I really do want to keep the fireballs different though.  I'll see if Marco's S.Power Haoh fits better.  I was also thinking about the Kasumi DM grab.  I realized after I coded it that the DM freeze happens at the wrong moment.  I'll fix it for a future release.  As for the Rave damage, all DMs range from the 310-270 damage range (out of 1000) depending on the character and the ability of the DM itself.  I believe Geese's is 305 total for the Rave, so it isn't more overpowered than any other DM in terms of damage.  Maybe it has too many invincibility frames?  Unblockable Autocombos are basically throws with a couple of differences.  The biggest ones are that they can be dodged and the character using them becomes hittable after the first hit of the attack. 

I'll direct the AI stuff to missfairy.  She's actually been working on a new AI system, so some of your concerns might be addressed.  I unfortunately did Kim and Karate.  Karate seems okay, but Kim is crazy.  My lack of experience in this field is most likely to blame for that.  When missfairy has time, she might go back and correct my mistakes.

Thanks for all the comment/opinions Shion.  Just to let you know, I welcome opinions, so long as they aren't intentionally meant to be demeaning/insulting.  I can't expect everyone to think like I do after all.  Makes for a good window into the preferences of others.  I am also glad you enjoyed the releases.  Thanks again.  More to come soon. :)
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: la;MISS~FairY-! on April 20, 2008, 12:40:42 am
Thank you so much for leaving Feedback, Shion! (I really wish more people did)

The evasion/throw/move spam issues are (hopefully) going to be corrected in the next version of my AI. I've been trying to find ways to make AI function more intelligently without having to depend on move spam and stuff like that. - We'll see how things go^^
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: niwaniwa on April 20, 2008, 01:01:51 am
swipergod. its niwaniwa the sexy ko advocate champion. my input is this.

the game is great. i don't have aproblem with the ai because i read that you're tweaking it.

maybe roll could be toned down a little?

and be sure to make chizurus sexy ko especially sexy!
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Shion on April 20, 2008, 03:04:37 am
No problem Swiper and Missfairy, I think your both doing a great job so far.  After all I couldn't find any bugs besides the K` thing.  And the AI is pretty good, for a first draft, I'm sure you'll Iron all the bugs out ;)

Keep up the good work.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on April 20, 2008, 04:34:35 am
lol.  Chizuru's sexy KO will be Anonymous' and [E]'s.  It's very well done and fits the game well so I didn't even have to mod it. :)  Thanks again Shion.  I'm just glad to hear some input. 

I've finished Chizuru, although I'm not as happy as I could be with her.  I can't figure out how to "powerseal" Specials and DMs.  Sander's version would have the opponent get hit every time they tried to attack with one.  The problem there is if an opponent is invincible they won't get hit and their move won't get "sealed".  I've tried a couple things, like a bind state and targetstate changes when specials are activated, but with no success.  So the alternative I've come up with is that Chizuru's powerseals (Level 1 and 3) merely drain 1 or 3 Levels (getpower = -1000 or -3000 respectively) if they connect.  Like I said, I'm not big on that as I'd prefer the actual powerseal, but it's a decent replacement I think.  If anyone has power seal suggestions, please post 'em, cause I'm stuck.

I'll post a video some time tomorrow.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: niwaniwa on April 20, 2008, 10:41:22 am
there are plenty ways to seal special moves! but you would have to code them in all of your characters seperate.

 maybe you can have something  from a -3 state trigger a target change state whenever an opponent enters a special move state number after getting hit by the super. like if you hit with the super then for the next 10 seconds if the opponent tries a special move it pops them into a state to nullify it

otherwise you would need to go to each character and put something in the trigger to make it to where in order to do the move at all they can not have been hit with chizurus move.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: niwaniwa on April 20, 2008, 10:18:45 pm
another way i think of is also requiring you to program it into each charater seperately. so when chizuru hits them with the move, they enter a state which can be set to trigger a var. then you can have one of the triggers for each special move be "var(xx) != (whatever  you assigned)"
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on April 21, 2008, 02:09:31 am
I agree with you niwaniwa.  I figured a -3 would cover it (kinda like the way sexykos are programmed).  I was hoping to avoid that because I've already released 12 characters and they wouldn't be compatible with the move.  I'll probably add the code in after I test it a bit for a future release (final release?), but unless there's a way of programming it specifically into Chizuru only, I'll have to use the level drain for now instead.  Actually, the reason I'll be doing Blue Mary as one of the least characters is because of that same reason.  I'll have to go into every character and give them arm and leg snap animations.  It'll be fun!  ......

Here's the Chizuru vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qvzgT0Ac6c (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qvzgT0Ac6c)

You'll notice a couple of changes.  I tried to blend her with Maki a bit to make her boss worthy.  The teleport and the SDM are Maki style moves.  I've made her drill leap a "seaking" move to save from having 4 separate commands for one attack.  She returns to her '96 style roots, but her illusions DM is 2K3 style (no following up).  It's actually a lot scarier than you think, because none of Chizuru's illusions count as projectiles and her DM illusion can't be hit.  So, for example, Geese could do a Rising Storm, Chizuru could do her illusion dance and if Chizuru's main body is out of range, the illusion will go through the storm and hit Geese.  All for the sake of making her a boss.  Rugal had his cheap grab you out of a roll throws and barrier DM, so this should match hopefully.

I'll get the next character done this week.  Ryo or Angel.  Not sure yet.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Shion on April 22, 2008, 07:36:55 am
Jin's Ash Crimson has a seal move, perhaps check his code.  His characters are open source too, so If it works there should be no problems using it.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on April 22, 2008, 08:00:39 am
Thanks Shion.  Was trying to figure out what other characters had seals.  I'll check it out.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: K.O.D on April 22, 2008, 08:03:29 am
Who's Joe are you planning on using later on?
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on April 23, 2008, 01:05:03 am
I have H's Joe.  I think it had a good alternate RB style version in addition to the KOF style.  And I really like his work (although I'm personally not big on the "chose your mode" thing).  I like the explode he has on the tiger kick.  I'll have to add a couple sprites from what I remember, including the RB style tornado for his HSDM (I love it.  It just looks so massive).  I've been reading up on the post you made for your Joe.  I haven't tried your characters yet (I'm over 6 months behind on my mugen creations).  Once I do, I have no doubt that I'll probably learn something from them though.  My Joe will play differently, but I'll probably be able to pick up some of the more technical aspects you mentioned in the character release post.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: niwaniwa on April 23, 2008, 04:13:53 am
lol.  Chizuru's sexy KO will be Anonymous' and [E]'s.  It's very well done and fits the game well so I didn't even have to mod it. :)  Thanks again Shion.  I'm just glad to hear some input. 

I've finished Chizuru, although I'm not as happy as I could be with her.  I can't figure out how to "powerseal" Specials and DMs.  Sander's version would have the opponent get hit every time they tried to attack with one.  The problem there is if an opponent is invincible they won't get hit and their move won't get "sealed".  I've tried a couple things, like a bind state and targetstate changes when specials are activated, but with no success.  So the alternative I've come up with is that Chizuru's powerseals (Level 1 and 3) merely drain 1 or 3 Levels (getpower = -1000 or -3000 respectively) if they connect.  Like I said, I'm not big on that as I'd prefer the actual powerseal, but it's a decent replacement I think.  If anyone has power seal suggestions, please post 'em, cause I'm stuck.

I'll post a video some time tomorrow.


her sexy ko needs to be sexier (i saw their edit)she should loose the belt too


thanks for your comments on my ideas. hopefully you find a good way to make it work!
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Dark Symphony on April 24, 2008, 07:14:32 pm
For your characters (I didn't look when I tested them), did you standardize all the state numbers?

If so, then abolishing special moves with Chizuru might be far easier than it seems.

It looks like, from the video, you're using the Maki 2K3 style "quick" special move seal?

In my opinion, that should only be a lvl 1 super. Make it something that Chizuru would be looking to spam to keep her opponent on lockdown. Maybe giver her other ones that abolish different abilities?

All I know is draining 3 lvls of super from someone could be deemed rather harsh. I could almost say the same thing for lvl 1's.

Does she actually drain and keep the super or do both characters lose the meter?

I also saw a new super you gave Chizuru. It looks pretty flashy but I think it makes some of her other ones obsolete at that level.

I like the idea of a homing image attack but maybe you can give her also ones that can be sent to specific areas as when I play Chizuru I often use that move to create fear and control space on top of just trying to hit the opponent.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Bastard Mami on April 24, 2008, 07:59:55 pm
I think you should just use a var-counter for that. and check for it in the cmd.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on April 25, 2008, 02:39:55 am
All states are standardized for the most part.  Ie) Projectiles are [1000,1099] and specials are [1000,1999] and so on and so on...

[E]. I'd tried using the var counter included in Sander's code already, but just tried to change the effect in the helper.  For some reason, I could only get the hitdef method to work and that method isn't very reliable.  Not sure if you have any suggestions as to what the var should trigger.  targetstate didn't work, I can't bind the character.  I'm thinking I'll have no choice but to add a seal code to every single character.

Dark Symphony.  I also assumed that it would be a simple fix specifically because I coded for simplicity, but I'm still out of my league in terms of getting the code to seal moves properly.  I am in the middle of coding Angel at the moment.  Once she's done, I will return to Chizuru and see if I can figure out a way of making some type of persistent interruption, but unless there's some code out there that can give me an idea of how to proceed, I may be stuck.  I'll have to check Jin's Ash and a few others though.

I reanimated Chizuru's seal to cut out useless frames (make the animation smoother), but keep the pose I preferred ('96-'97 as opposed to '98).  The attack and movement are the same, the animation is just different.  And it is a level 1.  To be honest, Chizuru's already pretty cheap as it is without super pumping her even more.  The new teleport I added, really tips strategy in her favor.  Missfairy initially thought herself that Chizuru might be a bit too weak to be a boss, but after getting used to her control, she agreed that Chizuru may already be cheaper than Rugal as is, which is pretty damn cheap.

The powerseal move as it is right now is intended to be balanced regardless that she's a boss.  At level 1, she does less damage than regular level 1s and it only seals 1 level.  At level 3, it deals less damage than other HSDM and can be airblocked (rare for a fullscreen DM), and removes all 3 levels.  I feel that it makes it somewhat of a gamble to use, but the payoff is huge.  Both only drain the level, they do not absorb them.  Still pretty scary in my book.  I don't feel her SDM makes other DMs obsolete.  It's fast, but rather easy to dodge from a distance and leaves her wide open for quite a few ticks.  It also doesn't control position the same way the illusion dance does with all the multi-hits pushing power.  That move is far better for getting out of a corner situation for example.  And it doesn't drain any levels from the opponent. 

I personally also like the position control aspect they introduced in 2k3, but giving a player 4 choices for 3 of her moves makes her overtly complex in my opinion and the idea of this project is to simplify gameplay a little.  Before making Chizuru, I played through '96 quite a few times as her to get a feel for the cheaper boss version of her and she didn't require positioning.  Chizuru has 6 moves and each one of those moves goes beyond the simple slow/fast or short/far mechanics, with one technically being a projectile, while the other is technically a rush.  In the end, I may even need to tone her down a bit.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on April 29, 2008, 10:50:59 pm
Quick FYI update.  Angel's at 85%.  I'll probably have a vid up by the weekend.  Would've finished her sooner, but Naruto is such an addictive series.  She's pretty complex.  Even with the revamped move list.  When I throw up the video, I'll appreciate any first impressions people can give me as she's the first radically different character.  After she's done, I'll recheck Chizuru and see what I can do with her and then move on to Ryo.  Ryo should be a breeze because I've already did most of the changes I wanted to do with the alpha version.  He won't have his Mr.Karate sprites because after a thorough inspection, I noticed he uses way to may that are just Takuma with a Ryo head.  Joe will be last.  Chizuru's AI is not yet complete, so I think, realistically, the next 4 won't be released until the end of May.  I'll work on trying to get it done sooner though.  Cheers.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on May 01, 2008, 02:38:07 am
Angel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJ8bdgEN78E (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJ8bdgEN78E)

She's the most different from her original counterpart than any other character I've made so far.  I've made her circlet commands and branches follow Kyo's Firepunch style.  However in keeping with the circlet original ability, portions of the weak chain can be comboed from other moves, and her DM will also chain.  You'll see in the video a few combos.  I'm not very good at this style of play, so I botched a couple combos, but you'll get the idea.  Even though it doesn't look it, her HSDM is actually a throw, not a rush.  Anyway, Ryo on the way.  Let me know what you think.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Shion on May 01, 2008, 04:36:43 am
well....I like the HSDM, it's creative...but I'm probably not best person to comment about this because Angel is one of my favorite characters, And I've mastered her style of game play and like it a lot...So I'm quite biased. 

So my honest first impression:  I'm very dubious about changing her unique moveset,  She's one of the most unique and fun characters I've ever played in Fighting games.  BUT, I'll wait until I get hands on with the character to make any real statements about her game play.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on May 01, 2008, 04:06:54 pm
Well if you're a big Angel fan, then you might be more qualified to answer this question than I am.  Let's say you have a friend who's more used to the Shotokan style of playing, but is looking to branch out and try new characters.  They think Angel is interesting, but hard to figure out how to play.  As Mugen allows you to program characters, you are able to remedy this.  How would you make Angel more accessible for your friend.  Honestly, I'm still a little concerned about how Angel turned out because I think she's still a little tough to play well (kinda like Whip) and I think I stayed a little to loyal to her old format.

I'm trying to give new players to the series a break and old players a little twist on the styles they're used to so my game isn't just rehash, but something new.  A new style to master, if you will.  Easy to pick up, means more people will challenge you with different characters (I once went to a SFA2 tournament where over 50% of the players used Akuma).  I know there are super hardcore people out there don't really like something different and would rather play the same old Iori again for the 50th time.  They've already let me know and that's fine.  Some people spend thousands of dollars repairing the first car they ever owned instead of buying a new one.  Nostalgia, familiarity, comfort.  Hard things to replace.  But really, no one ever said you have to get rid of the old one.  Anyway, as an Angel player, feel free to to tell me some of the things you feel I should tread carefully with.  No harm in listening on my end. :)
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Bastard Mami on May 01, 2008, 04:47:45 pm
You might want to add those intros/winposes, i ripped them using the debug.

(http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t117/maximilianjenus/anchanintro.gif)(http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t117/maximilianjenus/pulldownanim.gif)
slightly nsfw, this happens after you get too many of the first two.
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Dark Symphony on May 01, 2008, 07:20:47 pm
I see what you mean about simplification, Swipergod, but perhaps you can leave a little room for those who want to make things more complex?

I think one of the most prevalent misconceptions going on right now is that simple games cannot be complex. The whole competitive nature of fighting games is the basis of simple games becoming complex. You can see this with numerous games. Black jack, checkers, pinball. Some people just hit until they're at a certain number in blackjack. Others take into account where the dealer must stand and what cards are on the table. Some people just move pieces to the end in checkers to get king'd. Others fortify positions and create mistakes. Some people just hit the ball in pinball. Others hold the buttons down at all times they're not swiping at the ball to create a smaller area for the ball to go through in case they can't react in time.

I think the key to fresh games is creating something simple that allows room for complexity. It gives people both a chance to have fun and a window to get into something deeper if they desire. Many developers right now are trying to lock out advanced tacticss and high level play because their quick fix for the dreaded "skill gap" is to just lower options and give advantages to losing players, which creates a conflict of interest as the players should be seeking to win.

Just something to keep in mind. A homing image with Chizuru would be cool because an opponent knows that at any time, I can throw an image right where they stand and that creates a mind game. But a lot of that game is lost if I can't fake them out and throw one elsewhere. It's not necessarily "complex." It's just two moves with different properties. But I, as the player, can make them as simple or as complex as I want them to be. The complexity comes from the application, not the execution.

Which brings us to Angel... I don't like characters who lack rhyme or reason, and she did big tyme. Too many moves that came out in arbitrarily placed situations that required too much memorization.

If I controlled the chain circle combos, they'd be far simpler.

I'd either limit the openers and really make Angel work for this canned devious mixup

or

I'd give her simpler openers and make the chains more about harassing and whittling down an opponent.

I'd give her 3 attacks max in a chain and then a finisher. The finishers would do more damage depending on how far into the chain you are as you've taken more risks of your opponent escaping. They'd also do more damage depending on how many hits you've landed.

With 4 attack buttons, each one would do one command in the chain. One would do an overhead. One would do a low. one would do a quick midlevel attack and one would do a throw.

The overhead, of course, to hit low blockers. The low to, of course, hit standing blockers. The mid to interrupt slow attacks and stuff jumpers and the throw to chuck rollers.

Each move would be given phat lag afterwards to keep Angel from linking non-chain circle normals. She could still cancel them into other chain attacks for combos.

The overhead would be slowest, invulnerable to low attacks.

The low would be average speed. Invulnerable to highs. Can link from the overhead for a guaranteed hit.

The mid would be relatively quick. Quick enough to stuff most attacks if you're coming in with some frame advantage from another attack and quick enough to hit jumpers. The move cannot be airblocked and knocks down but creates no juggle opportunities. You just get to restart the guessing game if you score a knockdown with it. Again, it only knocks down airborne opponents. It can be linked from both the overhead or low for a combo.

Again, you can use any combination of these 3 moves up to three times before the chain will end.

The final button, the throw, simple does a throw that has a bit of startup. one reason is so people can react to it if they expect it, the other is so that people have enough time to escape blockstun and roll. So basically, you use it to chuck blockers and rollers. It should be slow enough to allow people to leave hitstun so they can get thrown but quick enough to grab people out of guard cancel rolls (I can't remember if you had those in your game).

You'd also use that button to execute finisher commands. One is just a phat hit that links off of any successful chain circle attack. One is a counter with quick startup but big recovery. The point is to give Angel mad control but not too much if the opponent is patient but still enough to maintain a bit of control over an extreme turtle.

The counter is there to prevent a universal escape for any character as some characters will have moves that will most likely straight up eat any chain circle move due to quick start up and invincibility (see: Uppercuts).

I'd give her two supers out of it. These would not scale depending on where she is in the chain. One is just a move for damage. I hate Ranbu supers as they are overdone, but that's what she had before.

The other would be kind of a low damage super that would be safe on block. It allows her to opt to burn meter for a safe exit out of the chain. The super meter requirement would keep her from abusing it.

Chain circle attacks would give no meter on whiff, very little on block and a normal amount on hit.


Sounds complex (because every character is) but the applications are simple enough to where anyone can use it and accomplish something. You have the simplified commands that use only face buttons and no directions. Anyone can simply go into a high, low game until one lands and then do a finisher and still get most of the effective purpose out of the move.

Others have the option to really get into it and find out which chains link into others and can start baiting counters and rolls to improve their game.

So beginners can immediately see the brunt of the results of effectiveness and advanced players can start min/maxing their game plots.

I don't know if I wrote this more for you or for me...
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on May 01, 2008, 09:59:20 pm
Hey [E].  Thanks for the additional sprites. :)  A little fun for everyone's favorite abandoned character.  I'll see if I can fit them in somewhere.  Missfairy's still working on Chizuru, but once she's done and she does a prelim AI for Angel, I'll forward Angel your way.

Dark Symphony.
:o  Wow, and I thought my posts were long.  :)

Guess I should've been a bit more descriptive in what exactly I did with Angel. ->

-Chain Circlet -> d,df,f + wk (hits low) -> d,df,f +wk or d,db,b +wk
-From d,df,f +wk -> d,df,f +wk (M block but more range) or d,df,f +wp (must be blocked low) -> d,df,f +wp -(finsh)
-From d,db,b +wk (this is a trip) -> d,db,b +wp (elbow drop that hits downed opponents)
-At any point you during the second phase of the circlet or later you can press wp+wk to do her dodge

This is what I meant by Kyo style branching.  Very, very similar and accessible.

Fierce Chain Circlet is an unvarying combo that crouching opponents will have a hard time hitting you out of.

-F. Chain Circlet -> hcf +sk (hits high) -> hcb +sk -> d,df,f +sk -> f,d,df +sk

Off her rush "spear attack and her weak force punch she can link Phase 2 circlet moves.  The circlet DM will also chain at any point after a Phase 2 move.  If you watch the video, you can see all the adjustments made and all the circlet moves in action.

Thing is Angel doesn't have to rely on her initial circlet as much anymore.  She can do the leap grab outside of a circlet, and the Circlet DM as a regular rush DM if you so choose.  There's a lot of variety.  What worries me, mostly, is balance.  I think the risk and lack of speed Angel has offset her damage.  But honestly, she can do a lot of damage, and pretty easily at that, should she connect.

Generally though, it seems we agree on idea behind Angel's modifications Dark Symphony, although the end results are different.  So that's reassuring. :)

Well, we'll see how she plays for ya when she's released.  Don't forget to post feedback if you can.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Shion on May 02, 2008, 07:27:59 am
Lots of text in only a few posts, lol.  Anyway, I'll hold of comment until I can actually play your version of Angel.  I'm trying to be open minded about your revised gameplay.  I don't however think you should make the DM useable without being a chain circle finisher, IMO it might overpower the character somewhat, but its hard to tell without actually playing as and against her. 

I still think your doing a good job with this, even if we have some ideological differences, I look forward to seeing your Chizuru and Ryo as well.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on May 03, 2008, 07:44:54 pm
Thanks Shion.  I tend to agree with the DM situation, but I don't like limiting it to a circlet combo (and a successful one at that).  What I've done is taken away its ability to juggle.  So it'll hit ground and air opponents, but not falling ones.  That tones it down a lot.  Also, the strong circlet combo cannot be varried, so the DM cannot be executed during that move.

I'm at about 50% with Ryo.  I'm gonna look at Chizuru afterward.  Since doing Angel, I've caught a few errors with all the characters and their hit states, so I've had to fine tune a few.  Also gave Karate the Marco Haoh Sho Ko Ken.  It looks nice.  K' stupid clone issue is still giving me problems even with a nothitby SAC added in.  I'll figure it out though.

What I'm gonna do is post 6 vids for extreme combos that my characters can do.  Some take more skill than others.  These exist even in the current releases, but I figure for those who like this kinda thing and haven't found them yet, I might as well show the few "forbidden techniques".  I'll post the links once they're up.

Edit:  Keep in mind these are tough to do in a real battle (they're hard to do in training mode).

Chizuru: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gzn1MignYTY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gzn1MignYTY)
Angel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sP3EY9JiekM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sP3EY9JiekM)
Rugal: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtlwA5GGKYQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtlwA5GGKYQ)
Kasumi: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ro_Nzm_QmU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ro_Nzm_QmU)
Terry: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBhyQgMOqec (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBhyQgMOqec)
Leona: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4u-tXgpDo4I (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4u-tXgpDo4I)
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Shion on May 04, 2008, 03:06:00 am
About those hit states, If your planning on doing Clark or Daimon or any other grappler, you might wan't to get them ready next, since you'll probably have to do more fixing for the other characters hit states and such. It might cut down the work you have to do in the future if you make your characters compatible with the grapples now...I think...
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on May 04, 2008, 03:16:48 am
Indeed.  I've tried to universalize since the beginning, but I caught 2 major problems while doing Angel that I missed.  Some characters' 5000 & 5010 spirtes were numbered 10,1,20 instead of 10,20,30.  This was bad.  Other weird numbers included 5111 instead of 5112 and so on.  Not that I wanted to leave them, but more that I forgot to change them.  I also had to remove states 5091 & 5092 which were cause invisibility glitches and weird states.

Unfortunately, Goro will not be in my game.  Clark will be.  He's in the works for the 4th wave.  Other issues will come up, like Blue Mary's limb snapping and new special intro for pre-existing characters, but I'll get to them as they come.  I'll overload myself if I have to concern myself with everything at once.  The reg states have been changed though, so I'll have to update the original 12.  Sucks, but c'est la vie.  If anything, I can add Chizuru's power seal to everybody as a back up if people don't like the current power drain thing.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Byakko on May 06, 2008, 12:16:25 pm
Okay, I don't pay enough attention and didn't check this topic, so what I posted in the release topic, I'll copy-paste it here.

First link sends me to front page, second links leet me download the chars pack only. Can't get the chars+bonus pack. Apparently you still haven't quite fixed that, I thought your April 27 edit meant you did.

the PDF said:
bridge_evening by その他
o_O その他 means "others". It's the download type. If you check, all the stages are labelled as "stage (others)".
Also the "direct link" on that stage doesn't work : the site is a dynamic news site, the "direct link" you give definitely isn't going to show the stage you meant to link to. You should link to the actual page, which would be a link such as this one (http://mugenchara.blog.shinobi.jp/Entry/474/).

I'm not exactly sure I should be allowed to juggle Rising Tackle over 3 times for over 460 damage.
PDF said:
Legs of Conquest (d,d +p) sk version
Also the Buster Wolf command says 2qcf+2P but it's 2K.

Whip : can't do String Shot ; Assassin Strike and Desert Eagle command as given in the PDF overlap (can't get DEagle)

Some debug text (Whip's Whip Shot for instance gives a "truncated to integer" error, I think there are some "missing required anims" too) etc.

"K' (Prime)" ? No it's dash, not prime.
K''s "Plus attack" after Crow Bite doesn't hit Rugal. His Blackout just doesn't come out. PDF says Air Trigger is qcb+P, but it's qcf+K.

Leona's Earring Explosive is written as qcb+K but it's qcb+P.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on May 07, 2008, 12:08:03 am
Super huge thanks Baiken.  This is good feedback.

I will check the PDF and correct all the bad inputs.  Those inputs are the original inputs from the conception stages.  Since creating the characters I've changed a few. 

Don't know what's up with the missing animations.  I'll check whip out.  To my knowledge though, there are no missing animations with any character in terms of attacking. 

K' is now known as K dash, but his original name was K Prime.  He's the first/main Nest creations that other Nests creations were based off of.  I remember the name K Prime appearing in promotional materials for KOF 1999, meaning in reference to Krizalid he was the main K as opposed to the "other K" or K clone.  I believe I've seen wikipedia and a few other sources stated the names K Dash and K Prime as being interchangeable.  I'm not creative enough to start making up character names.

Missing collisions could be the result of the K'/Rugal glitch.  I'll look into it.  Thanks again for all the bug/mistake catches.

News:

Ryo is finished: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jhIu4d1bwo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jhIu4d1bwo)

He's nothing fancy, but pretty balanced.  Works as a punishment type character that can unload massive damage at once if your opponent starts getting greedy.  Ruben's allowing me to upload the newer version of characters up at http://www.mugenhistory.com (http://www.mugenhistory.com).  I haven't uploaded them yet, but that'll be the place to upload the 4 new characters and the less glitchy versions of the original 12 once they're finished.  Also, Walt's going to help out with the Robert sprite request I posted a while back, provided I give him the proper materials for the conversion.  Last, but not least, missfairy has completed a newer, smarter version of her AI with Chizuru.  It's actually quite good at making comebacks if you start to slack.

Joe will probably be finished by next weekend-ish.  Missfairy will probably need another week or so to wrap up the other AI's.  Angel's won't be a cakewalk after all.  So expect the next release to be somewhere around May 24th-ish.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Byakko on May 07, 2008, 12:21:52 am
Quote
Don't know what's up with the missing animations.  I'll check whip out.  To my knowledge though, there are no missing animations with any character in terms of attacking.
The missing animations seemed to be for pretty much everyone... checking...
Geese, K', Mr Karate, Kim, Mai, Rugal, Terry, Whip are missing animation 5200.
Iori, Kasumi, King, Leona don't have that problem.

Similar to Terry being able to chain Rising Tackle ad vitam eternam, Mr Karate can chain "Rising Dragon" (I suggest looking for the real names once your near completion, because this isn't it :P ) three times in a row (in the corner, like Terry) for nearly 800 damages.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: walt on May 07, 2008, 01:24:24 am
nearly 800 damages.
in your 50 MUGENS and +9000 INTERNETS. lol.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on May 07, 2008, 02:39:20 am
*ouch* that'd be one steaming pile of pain.  Gonna have to readjust the combo counter to fit in all those hits.  (starts grumbling).

I may need to be corrected if I'm wrong here, but isn't state 5200 the capcom style midair recovery?  ie) I hit a few buttons, my character flips and is ready to airblock?  That's the impression that I'm under, while 5040 is the flip if I got jab punched in midair state.  If so, my game doesn't use the capcom style recovery, just the KOF style quick recover as you hit the ground.  If 5200 is a state that I should have, I can easily add it.  I was going to add 5091 to everyone anyway, so it's just a few extra minutes per character.

I've fixed most of the problems you mentioned.  K'/Rugal is fixed.  Leona's motion has been changed (was supposed to be dcb +k).  Terry is fixed.  Fixing Karate.  PDF will be up to date for next release.

K's blackout works.  hcf +k.  or qcf +p then quickly b +k.

Once again, thanks a lot Baiken.  This has been a really big help.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Byakko on May 07, 2008, 03:58:58 am
(edit - speaking about the missing anim 5200) Yes, but even if you don't use it, you should still put in (at least) some blank animation with that number ; otherwise it shows on the debug screen as a "missing required animation". It would be better to make it so that the debug screen is clean.
Quote
hcf +k
??? Why did you make it an hcf instead of the usual qcf ?
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on May 07, 2008, 03:05:56 pm
Thanks for the tip. :)  Guess I made it hcf cause I always assumed it was cause Athena's was.  I don't think it cripples K' really.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: K.O.D on May 07, 2008, 03:14:06 pm
Read character faqs and play alot with the characters in KoF itself to avoid this sort of thing.

I thought you had changed the commands on purpose :P
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Rote Zaungast on May 07, 2008, 03:24:09 pm
about Angel, Angel is Angel and she's meant to play like that, she's already easy to use with 1direction + p/k commands...and the DMs are better played like that, or else it's only disgusting to see someone want to pull out her DMs that bad without even the required conditions

that's the essence which makes things what they are, you can change whatever you like in a blackboard, color, matter, or size etc. but if you remove its use from it, it's no longer a blackboard
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on May 07, 2008, 08:24:25 pm
Thanks for the comments.  I find that limiting Angel to one instant access DM and a counter one at that does not do well to balance her out with the rest of the characters.  Why should I have to do a few moves first before popping out my DM?  Fair to say that's the essence of what Eolith was trying to do with her character and design.  Worked in 2002 from what I've seen in videos.  However my game doesn't focus on combos.  Specials cannot be interrupted into other specials and you cannot continuously juggle characters until the end of time.  Plus most characters have more moves than they did in KOF 2k2.  Look no further than Kim to see what I mean.  Rather than reduce other characters movesets for the sake of balancing Angel out, I removed some of her restrictions.  I still tried to retain most of her essence though. 

Look at it through your analogy.  If you insist on writing on a blackboard, you may.  But there are other tools that have the same uses it does and some are more simple and less limiting than others.  While the results will vary, the essence of what you were doing is the same.  Writing a word, drawing a picture, using it to hang something, or whatever.  I didn't remove the uses, just changed formats so to speak.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on May 11, 2008, 09:53:36 pm
Update:

Joe's at 30%.  Hopefully he'll be done by Wednesday.  Missfairy's still working on Ryo's AI.  I decided to coincide the release of the newer beta characters and the updated ones on mugenhistory, that I'd take up everyone's advice and make a screenpack and include a copy of Mugen pre-packaged.  I had some friends who were confused with my first release and I realized not everyone who wants to try the characters understands things like screenpacks and even things like stage additions and/or wants to spend time with them (as simple as they are).

The screenpack is going to be simple and probably somewhat ugly because I really don't want to put all my effort into it at the moment.  I still have close to 30 characters to complete, so it'll be pretty basic.  Because I'll be releasing this as a game package, I will be switching to the games internal spritepack to create super sparks, hit sparks, shockwaves etc...  This means that the character's effects may not animate correctly outside my screenpack.  This will save me time, but will also enforce the fact that these characters should really only be played against each other and not against Ahuron's or Juke's for example as glitches will most likely occure.

Also, I'm adding Vanessa and Kensou to the roster, making the total characters playable in this game 43.  36 regs, 3 sub bosses (Geese and Takuma were a little tougher than the rest), 3 bosses and 1 Orochi.  Expect the updated release at towards end of May.  The 3rd wave of characters will include Yuri, Athena, Kensou and finally Kyo.  Due to the work involved with each though, I may release them one at a time though, instead of a pack of 4.  That's it for now.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Dark Symphony on May 12, 2008, 08:16:32 pm
Yipes. Well, i'm not surprised....
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on May 13, 2008, 06:32:44 pm
Making a screenpack was a nice break from the constant character programming I do.  The screenpack is finished.  I'll try to get missfairy to take a pic or 2.  It mixes a touch of KOF '96-XI (excluding the aesthetically deprived '97 and 01). It's nothing special, so I'll wait until I finish Joe to show it off in a video.  The idea is to simply download and play without hassle.  However, everything I do for this project is with love for SNK, so all music is from SNK games and there are only SNK stages.  Feel free to customize everything once it's released though.  I won't mind.  I have yet to program the credits screen, but there will be one in the future.

Because I've been programming/learning how to code a screenpack, Joe was put on the back burner.  I'll pick up on him again tomorrow, but he probably won't be finished until the weekend.  In other great news, [E] has donated the last of the sexy KOs to the game.  Now every female character including the newly announced Vanessa will have a sexy ko.

Still have a few other things to do before the next release, including the collision fixes K.O.D. suggested and hitspark recofig.  Those might have to wait until the 3rd release though as life's starting to get a bit busier.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: walt on May 13, 2008, 06:53:19 pm
The screenpack is finished.  I'll try to get missfairy to take a pic or 2.  It mixes a touch of KOF '96-XI (excluding the aesthetically deprived '97 and 01).
97? but but but... they had those nifty KOF 3D logo animations and the world maps :'(
I thought those were nice.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on May 13, 2008, 08:31:31 pm
Yes that's true although the animation doesn't do me much good unless I'm going to fight in Korea or Bali.   ;P  Still, I take it back.  '97 had Yashiro's stage after all and that's my all time fav (but lets forget about the char select screen okay?).
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on May 15, 2008, 01:49:55 am
News:

Joe is scheduled for completion Saturday.  I talked with missfairy and we're still looking at a release for next weekend-ish.  I've been doing a little more non-character related work.  I created my first stage, which is a mod of Sela's old FF3 Hon Fu stage.  I always liked and wanted a warehouse background, so I fixed positioned it.  It'll be released with Vanessa some time early next month.

I've also been getting a couple of inquiries about character specific releases.  Here's how you should look at it.  I'll be doing characters in waves of 4.  After 4, I take a break before I move on to the next wave.  You should look for one wave per roughly 1 1/2 months (could be less, depends on the help I receive).  I'm basing the waves around the release of the remaining main KOF characters.  I'm trying to make this as realistic as possible:

Wave 2:  Ryo, Chizuru, Angel, Joe (This month)
Wave 3: Kyo, Vanessa, Kensou, Yuri (Mid July)
Wave 4: Athena, Benimaru, Maxima, Andy (Early Sept)
Wave 5: Rock, Hotaru, Jenet, Gato (End of Oct)
Wave 6: Ralf, Clark, Vice, Mature (Early Dec)
Wave 7: Ash, Goenitz, Yashiro, Shermie (End of Jan)
(I'll need the Orochi Shermie 2k2 samples by this point to do this wave)
Kaiser Wave a.k.a Wave 8: Krauser, Mary, Billy, Yamazaki (Mid Feb)  
(hopefully at this point KOF '98 UM screenpacks will be available for the Mary leg snaps and Krauser)
Wave 8: Kula, Robert (Mid March)
(These 2 characters need actual sprite edits to be completed.  I've given Robert to Walt, but I'm wondering if anybody knows how to get in touch with Li-Kun as Alex hasn't responded to my e-mails about the Diana edit)
Final Beta release: Orochi (End of March, one year after the first release)

Final order of business are screenshots of the KOFE screenpack as it is now (taken by the wonderful missfairy).  Screenpacks aren't my strong suit and I have no idea how to do high res stuff, so I just ripped graphics from KOF games and edited them.  There are also some influences from BrokenMugen and MugenPower screenpacks in the design.  I'll try to improve it later on, but this is what it is now.  If anybody wants to modify it to make it better, your help is welcome.

Title:
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj119/swipergod/titlecg5.jpg)
Background made to flicker from time to time, other than that, nothing fancy.

Character Select:
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj119/swipergod/selectkf6.jpg)
Fully animated background and character select bar.  The bar, yellow, can be changed to purple or silver (that's the color I use).

Vs Screen:
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj119/swipergod/vsym5.jpg)
Scrolling background.

Lifebars:
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj119/swipergod/matchml1.jpg)
These are zedzdead's bars.  There have been some modifications to the fight.def, I've added missing stuff like the XI double KO screen and voice, XI timeover screen and reduced the number of victory ball things in the life meter to 2 for the simul-team and one on one battles.  I'm also using XI sparks for the fightfx pack.  There's a lot cause I included stuff like grab sparks and my super screen sprites.

It'll also include my SNK logo.  That's all for now.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Bastard Mami on May 15, 2008, 04:44:34 pm
Make up teams, so the characters are in teams of 3 or 4 in the select screen, even if the teams are senseless like shingo-kula-saisyu it does  not matter; it just hurts me seeing a kof select screen without teams.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on May 16, 2008, 02:03:32 am
Already planned out teams for the game:

KOFE Teams:

Hero Team:                                     Neo Cartel:
Kyo, Iori, Ash, Benimaru                     K', Kula, Maxima, Angel

Fatal Fury:                                      Justice Soldiers:
Terry, Andy, Joe, Mai                         Athena, Kim, Kensou, Hotaru

Art of Fighting:                                Ikari Warriors:
Ryo, Robert, Yuri, Kasumi                   Leona, Ralf, Clark, Whip

Gorgeous Fighters:                          Desciples of Orochi:
King, Mary, Vanessa, Jenet                 Yashiro, Shermie, Vice, Mature

Howard Legacy:
Rock, Gato, Billy, Yamazaki

Just for you [E], I'll rearrange the blocks to separate the 3 teams per row into 3 columns. ;)  I'll just remove the boss blocks and make them "hidden".
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Bastard Mami on May 16, 2008, 02:08:29 am
What i mean is tha the select screen should reflect those teams, even if you just put place holder chars/icons in the meanwhile.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on May 16, 2008, 05:36:24 am
Interesting idea.  I suppose because I have the screenpack set to not move onto unused cells (so the bosses can be selected off screen), I could use random select as a placeholder.  That'd be a lot of random selects though.  I'll give it a go though.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Shion on May 16, 2008, 09:25:46 am
No offense, but those teams don't make much sense.  Iori and Kyo hate Ash.  Angel is most likely hated by Kula because she and K9999 tried to kill Foxy.  The Justice soldiers team is...strange, but it still makes some sense.  Kasumi hates the kyokugen dojo.  For the Orochi Disciples...where's Chris?  Thats just strange to have Yashiro and Shermie without Chris.  Finally for the Howard Legacy team, Rock doesn't like Billy Kane. 

Thats my blunt opinion.  I can tell your trying to do something different, but some of those choices just don't make any sense in the context of the King of Fighters storyline.

Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: K.O.D on May 16, 2008, 09:41:30 am
I agree with Shion.

Finally for the Howard Legacy team, Rock doesn't like Billy Kane. 

That's only in the Another Day anime though, which is not canon.

Also, Angel's (and K9999) mission is to kill K' as well as to kill Kula (at the end though)
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Byakko on May 16, 2008, 09:53:54 am
Finally for the Howard Legacy team, Rock doesn't like Billy Kane. 
That's only in the Another Day anime though, which is not canon.
Well, Rock hates his daddy and hates being linked to it, and Billy worships Geese. those are both canon, so Rock... probably hates Billy. You may find it odd that Rock is in the Howard Legacy when he rejects it, that's all.
Quote
Kasumi hates the kyokugen dojo.
Agreed.
Quote
For the Orochi Disciples...where's Chris?  Thats just strange to have Yashiro and Shermie without Chris.
Well I suppose if Orochi is planned as a boss, considering Orochi possesses Chris, you may just say Chris is already in another "team" (boss team).
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Cybaster on May 16, 2008, 10:10:18 am
Interesting idea.  I suppose because I have the screenpack set to not move onto unused cells (so the bosses can be selected off screen), I could use random select as a placeholder.  That'd be a lot of random selects though.  I'll give it a go though.
Use "blank".
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Shion on May 16, 2008, 01:44:51 pm
I agree with Shion.

Finally for the Howard Legacy team, Rock doesn't like Billy Kane. 

That's only in the Another Day anime though, which is not canon.

Also, Angel's (and K9999) mission is to kill K' as well as to kill Kula (at the end though)

I actually thought Another Day was canon.. ah well, can't win them all  ;)

Also I didn't mention Angel's mission because I figured they pretty much went rogue themselves when they  tried to murder Foxy, thus they wouldn't care about completing their mission.  Although I think K9999 would attempt to kill K' regardless of if he were ordered to do it or not.

Well I suppose if Orochi is planned as a boss, considering Orochi possesses Chris, you may just say Chris is already in another "team" (boss team).

If Chris(Orochi) gets to be on the boss team, Yashiro's gonna go emo and start cutting himself.  :sugoi:
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Bastard Mami on May 16, 2008, 04:57:06 pm
Hero Team:                                     Neo Cartel:
Kyo, Iori, Rock, Benimaru                     K', Kula, Maxima, Hotaru

Fatal Fury:                                      Justice Soldiers:
Terry, Andy, Mary, Joe                         Athena, Kasumi, Kensou, Kim

Art of Fighting:                                Ikari Warriors:
Ryo, Robert, Yuri, King                   Leona, Ralf, Clark, Whip

Gorgeous Fighters:                          Desciples of Orochi:
Mai, Angel, Vanessa, Jenet                 Yashiro, Shermie, Vice, Mature

Howard Legacy:
Ash, Gato, Billy, Yamazaki
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: K.O.D on May 16, 2008, 05:03:30 pm
Neo Cartel:
Hotaru

Howard Legacy:
Ash

How do these fit in?
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Bastard Mami on May 16, 2008, 05:17:44 pm
Ash fits in a similar way as gato.

About hotaru... swap her and vanessa, it should be more fitting.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Cybaster on May 16, 2008, 05:23:53 pm
Hotaru is not gorgeous. :P
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: K.O.D on May 16, 2008, 05:26:51 pm
The gorgeous refers to women always putting "Gorgeous" or "Beatiful" in front of their team names,etc.
which also applies in real life as well.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Bastard Mami on May 16, 2008, 05:28:27 pm
Hotaru is not gorgeous. :P

That only leaves two options

Hero Team:                                     Neo Cartel:
Kyo, Iori, Rock, Benimaru                     K', Kula, Maxima, Vanessa

Fatal Fury:                                      Justice Soldiers:
Terry, Andy, Mary, Joe                         Athena, Kasumi, Kensou, Kim

Art of Fighting:                                Ikari Warriors:
Ryo, Robert, Yuri, King                   Leona, Ralf, Clark, Whip

Gorgeous Fighters:                          Desciples of Orochi:
Mai, Angel, NO NEED FOR MORE PEOPLE, Jenet                 Yashiro, Shermie, Vice, Mature

Howard Legacy:
Ash, Gato, Billy, Yamazaki

UGLY LOLIS TEAM
Hotaru

or

Hero Team:                                     Neo Cartel:
Kyo, Iori, Rock, Benimaru                     K', Kula, Maxima, Vanessa

Fatal Fury:                                      Justice Soldiers:
Terry, Andy, Mary, Joe                         Athena, Kasumi, Kensou, Kim

Art of Fighting:                                Ikari Warriors:
Ryo, Robert, Yuri, King                   Leona, Ralf, Clark, Whip

Gorgeous Fighters:                          Desciples of Orochi:
Mai, Angel, Ash, Jenet                 Yashiro, Shermie, Vice, Mature

Howard Legacy:
Hotaru, Gato, Billy, Yamazaki

FIXED
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Cybaster on May 16, 2008, 05:32:09 pm
LOL ;D.
Now swipergod has a good reason to use your off-topic entry for the boobs contest ! :)
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on May 16, 2008, 07:25:00 pm
Man, did I ever get a good laugh over this one.  Ash is probably the most "gorgeous" of them all.  If the team names don't work, I can always change them.  Well, here's my reasoning, but I'm not married to them.

Kasumi: I'm not sure, but I thought her grudge against Kyokugen was over.  In '99 she bows to the Kyokugen fighters out of respect in their intro pose.  Plus, in XI, she seems more interested in finding her father than getting even with Kyokugen.

Rock: My MotW memory is fuzzy, but didn't Rock agree to go with Kain at the end and ditch Terry?  I took that to mean it was the first step towards Rock following in Geese's footsteps.

Chris: Chris = Orochi.  The only time you'll see Chris in my game is the 3 seconds before he turns into Orochi.  Chris isn't a playable character.

Angel: What is Angel without K'9999?  Just another former Nests member.  Angel is dirty, but I didn't think she was pure evil.  I dunno, maybe K'9999 ditched her and K' and the gang decided to give her a second chance.  Piccolo used to be obsessed with killing Goku, but who really remembers that?  Though I'm not really opposed to switching Angel with Vanessa.

Ash: I could rename it "Shady Team"?  I was shocked when Iori and Kyo turned up on the same team in XI?  I mean, didn't Iori have a blood hatred for Kyo?  And yet SNK themselves made Kyo and Iori team up after years of purposely keeping them separate.  Ash is another main character somehow liked to Orchi and the mystic flames that Kyo and Iori use.  I thought it made sense to stick him with the others to fight against Orochi.  Teams don't have to be without animosity.  Plus, who really knows Ash's motives at this point anyway? 

Boobs contest:  Mai won, Earthquake came in a close second, Angel was disqualified for getting too rowdy, Hotaru was too embarrased and ran away, King claimed she was a man and wouldn't take off her shirt, Yuri smacked Robert for peeking, Mary was too busy dissing Terry for not putting her on his team again, Shiki was ignored, and Ash and Benimaru tied for last place, dispite their protests.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: K.O.D on May 16, 2008, 07:28:17 pm
It's only K9999 or K49 for short, not K'9999 ;)

Yeah, Angel was not a psycho like K49 was, and wouldn't want to continue her mission since now NESTS is gone and K49 would rather kill K' and Kula for the..err.."fun" of it/whatever kind of grudge he has.

Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Rote Zaungast on May 16, 2008, 07:48:16 pm
kyo and iori are rivals, that can be ok if they teamed up for a short time...but team up with a whore that seeks their power and they know it?
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: la;MISS~FairY-! on May 16, 2008, 08:02:24 pm
Rock: My MotW memory is fuzzy, but didn't Rock agree to go with Kain at the end and ditch Terry?  I took that to mean it was the first step towards Rock following in Geese's footsteps.

Ash: I could rename it "Shady Team"?  I was shocked when Iori and Kyo turned up on the same team in XI?  I mean, didn't Iori have a blood hatred for Kyo?  And yet SNK themselves made Kyo and Iori team up after years of purposely keeping them separate.  Ash is another main character somehow liked to Orchi and the mystic flames that Kyo and Iori use.  I thought it made sense to stick him with the others to fight against Orochi.  Teams don't have to be without animosity.  Plus, who really knows Ash's motives at this point anyway? 
Rock being part of "Howard Legacy" Seems really strange to me, too. Rock hates Geese (and geese never cared about him) whereas Billy worships Geese. So them teaming up is sort of impossible to believe going by KOF storyline.

SNK never decided what they wanted with Kyo and Iori. In some games they were portrayed as rivals but not exactly enemies, either. In some Iori disliked Kyo and wanting to defeat him. And in others Iori had a scathing hatred for Kyo and flat out wanted to murder him. So them being on a team isn't too difficult to believe.
Ash on the other hand is pretty impossible, too. Ash stole Iori's power, he also stole Chizuru's power. And presumably in XII he's going to try to/take Kyo's power. So Ash being on a team with them is really weird.

You could always make Ash a single entry, anyway. Since he never care a damn about his teams anyway and just used them.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Byakko on May 16, 2008, 08:09:07 pm
Quote
My MotW memory is fuzzy, but didn't Rock agree to go with Kain at the end and ditch Terry?  I took that to mean it was the first step towards Rock following in Geese's footsteps.
Exactly, except Kain wanted to ruin Geese's legacy and take the city for himself. Also rock did it for his mother, not for the looting and ruling ; but Billy won't team up with Kain, so Billy and Rock won't team up either because rock still doesn't like Geese while Billy worships him.

Iori and Kyo have some constant rivalry. At first, Iori wanted to kill Kyo, until KoF 97 happened. Iori still has a grudge against Kyo, but that's just exactly the same as Goku and Vegeta, the "I'm the one who will kill you, nobody else can" rivalry.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on May 17, 2008, 12:25:40 am
Well it seems like Ash and Rock's placings are currently unforgivable.  So after some musical chairs, we arrive at this:

KOFE Teams:

Hero Team:                                     Neo Cartel:
Kyo, Iori, Benimaru, Angel                     K', Kula, Maxima, Vanessa

Fatal Fury:                                      Justice Soldiers:
Terry, Andy, Joe, Mai                         Athena, Kim, Kensou, Rock

Art of Fighting:                                Ikari Warriors:
Ryo, Robert, Yuri, Kasumi                   Leona, Ralf, Clark, Whip

Gorgeous Fighters:                          Desciples of Orochi:
King, Mary, Hotaru, Jenet                 Yashiro, Shermie, Vice, Mature

Villains Team:
Ash, Gato, Billy, Yamazaki

You take villains team '03 and add Ash, who appears to be a villain himself and that = team.  To fill the gap in the Hero's team you put Angel in his place and let them deal with her reform.  You take Vanessa as [E] mentioned and toss her into the Cartel and finally you take Rock (who feels more at home with at least one other Fatal Fury character and can't join the women's team) and have him boot Hotaru out of the justice team to the women's team.  Work better?
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Dark Symphony on May 17, 2008, 04:29:53 am
Well it seems like Ash and Rock's placings are currently unforgivable.  So after some musical chairs, we arrive at this:

KOFE Teams:

Hero Team:                                     Neo Cartel:
Kyo, Iori, Benimaru, Angel                     K', Kula, Maxima, Vanessa

Fatal Fury:                                      Justice Soldiers:
Terry, Andy, Joe, Mai                         Athena, Kim, Kensou, Rock

Art of Fighting:                                Ikari Warriors:
Ryo, Robert, Yuri, Kasumi                   Leona, Ralf, Clark, Whip

Gorgeous Fighters:                          Desciples of Orochi:
King, Mary, Hotaru, Jenet                 Yashiro, Shermie, Vice, Mature

Villains Team:
Ash, Gato, Billy, Yamazaki

You take villains team '03 and add Ash, who appears to be a villain himself and that = team.  To fill the gap in the Hero's team you put Angel in his place and let them deal with her reform.  You take Vanessa as [E] mentioned and toss her into the Cartel and finally you take Rock (who feels more at home with at least one other Fatal Fury character and can't join the women's team) and have him boot Hotaru out of the justice team to the women's team.  Work better?




See, at this point I think it's time to concede that you can't make sensical teams out of this roster. Angel on the Hero team? Rock a justice fighter? Rock, the guy who willingly decided to join Kain R.? (by the way, Rock is all about his mothers lineage, not his fathers')

Kasumi on the AOF team isn't too far off. According to the KOF 66 drama CD where she gets drunk and hits on Ryo as well as her v ery obivous antics of such at the end of Art of Fighting 3, it's obvious that it's just one of those anime-japan-weirdness inspired "hatreds." Note she doesn't even mention it in XI.

Just the existence of the Orochi characters is a contradiction. Wy are they back? And if they're back, will Yashiro and Shermie be in their Orochi forms? The only reason they weren't in 97 is because they didn't even know they were Orochi. Now that they're with V&M, shouldn't they be aware of their whatevertheheck and just plain be in Orochi mode? You notice  that Vice and Mature don't "un Orochi" themselves.....

KOF has always produced some pretty contrived fanmade teams. Nature of the beast, I guess. It's easy to take characters who lack strong, solid motivations and relationships and throw them together. I always thought KOF was great because they USUALLY avoided weirdness (at least the old SNK did).

MY suggestion would be to consider teams of 3 and embrace single entries. Characters with strong ties should be kept together. Those who don't you kind of have room to play with.

Again, i'd just look at single entries for some because it's obvious your roster wasn't carved out of the story stone 9which is a good thing. I'll take diversity and gameplay over a story based roster).
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on May 17, 2008, 06:46:15 pm
I'd like to try and stay away from single entries for programming reasons.  It'll make the character select screen I have now look like an absolute mess.  Plus I've already got 7 characters who aren't even on the visible screen (bosses).  It'll just become confusing.  If the teams don't get over I can change the screen in a later release. 

Okay, swap Vanessa with Angel.  Vanessa and Iori have teamed up before anyway.  As for the controversial Team Justice, look at it from the Naruto perspective and compare it to Team Gai.

Gai = Kim, the crazy hyper motivator full of burning passion for justice (instead of youth)

Tenten = Athena.  Although Athena is way more relevant to the story.  Athena is all about Justice too.

Rock Lee = Kensou.  I mean, if you don't consider the clothes or fighting style, Kensou kinda looks like a mini Kim.  Plus he also seems a little off his rocker like Kim (thanking dead people that are alive???)

Neji = Rock, the outsider who just doesn't seem to fit in initially, but can slowly bond with them over time.  Plus Rock's a prodigy of sorts like Neji.

If you look, all of the Disciples of Orochi are dead.  There are actually only 8 "real" teams.  The 9th (Orochi team) is more of a bonus team of sorts.

You can also screw the story and just think of it as a dream match.  I mean Shingo and Eiji on the same team doesn't really make sense does it (KOF 98 UM).  Just an "Edit" team.

News: Joe's at 60%.  Still on schedule for a completion late this evening.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on May 18, 2008, 08:06:11 am
It's late, I'm pooped and Joe's finished.  Will post video tomorrow.

Also, I'll be releasing my very own stage tomorrow too.  It's Hon Fu's FF3 stage (sunset version) and unlike my other work, it's pretty much all mine.  It doesn't animate like Sela's version with the moving lift, but I've animated the water and tried to give an accurate delta value for all the layers, so it's still pretty nice.  To my knowledge there hasn't been a version of this stage made yet (which is why I made it).  It'll be used as Vanessa's stage in the KOFE game.  Anyway, I'll post the link when I put it up. 

And finally, missfairy got bumped up to contributor today.  I is so proud of hers. :D  For us lowly users, that's great stuff.  Go team!  :sugoi:
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on May 18, 2008, 09:18:59 pm
Joe is up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQiPTBwF2Mk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQiPTBwF2Mk)

You can see my screenpack in the video.  Like I said before, nothing special, but at least it's something.  Joe's also the first character to completely use the fightfx from the pack.  I'd say the trial was a success.  A note on Joe's DMs.  The Golden Tiger Kick is mainly your anti air weapon and is good for close up damage as I've limited it's range.  It *should* also eat small fireballs.  Haven't been able to test that yet.  The punch barrage is usually what you want to hit standing opponents with because the damage is more reliable (with the majority occuring at the end of the combo unlike the GTK).  You can also see on the multi punch follow ups that I've give Joe that shin kick.  This must be blocked low, unlike the overhead elbow follow up which must be blocked high.  Good for mind games I figure.  Also Golden Heel does 3 hits to large characters or airborne opponents.

Also, my first stage (and first original work) is up.  You can find it here:  http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=80269.0 (http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=80269.0). 

I've been looking everywhere for this stage as it's my favorite from FF3.  Sela made one, but I preferred the sunset version, plus I wasn't a big fan of the moving lift (although it's a nice animation).  I like the gritty look of the warehouses, so I made the stage stationary and added the water to the background to give it a more harbor feel.  I hope you all like it.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: K.O.D on May 19, 2008, 07:51:06 am
The Golden Tiger Kick isn't supposed to cancel projectiles.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on May 19, 2008, 11:01:24 am
I am aware, but I'm try to diversify 2 DMs that relatively do the same thing (attack while traveling straight forward) by diversifying the situations in which you would use them.  The projectile cancelling is limited only to about 6 frames or so.  So basically, once the nothitby SCA wears off, he's still invincible to projectiles (non-DM ones mind you) for a few more frames.  Makes things a little more interesting in a fight I think especially against projectile loving characters like Geese.

When I conceived Joe, I was pretty worried that there'd be no point in having the 2 DMs when Golden Tiger is so much more useful, so I've tried changing it up.  Shortened its range, removed its ability to be comboed into, made it more of a defensive weapon, as opposed to the rush.  The projectile negation is a part of that.  Plus it kinda makes sense considering his whole body in momentarily covered in energy.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: la;MISS~FairY-! on May 19, 2008, 09:53:50 pm
The Golden Tiger Kick isn't supposed to cancel projectiles.
I think one good thing to remember is these characters aren't supposed to be like an official game. (The game itself isn't, either)

So technically nothing is "supposed" To be anything. Unless it was something so over the top, I guess? Like Iori with a flight mode.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on May 19, 2008, 10:28:49 pm
I try to keep things as loyal to the actual moves as I can, but the main rules are variety, simplicity and balance.  However, to restrict myself, I try to make it fit within the confines of what that character is.  So I wouldn't give Blue Mary a fireball because that doesn't seem to be what that character is about, so to speak.

Anyway, I'm going to be posting an all AI tournament with my characters on youtube throughout the week to generate some interest for the game and mugenhistory.com before the release.  Missfairy is still working on some AIs, so I only have the preliminary AIs for Joe, Ryo and Angel, but this is just for fun, so they don't have to be in top form.  I won't be posting match links, but you can check my profile here for updates if you're interested in watching:

http://www.youtube.com/user/swipergod (http://www.youtube.com/user/swipergod)

I do this now, cause I'm gonna have limited access to the internet for a little while starting this weekend.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on May 20, 2008, 06:30:47 am
I will be delaying the release of the updated beta by about a week so that I can universalize the hitsparks, add a code to all throw states that should hopefully negate the weird problem of reverse velocities when you grab someone who isn't facing you.  It's in trial right now.  Plus, I'll be correcting the collision differences in guard and dodge states that K.O.D suggested.  Figure I should get everything up to speed now, so I can address new issues should they arise.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: superyuzqy on May 22, 2008, 02:52:28 am
I like this mugen!:)
but I can not download KOFE.rar,it says“Your download has failed. There were no available download servers."What's wrong?help me please
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on May 22, 2008, 07:43:56 am
Filefront gives you a 5 second warning before deleting your files.  I'm at work, I get the e-mail.  I get home, poof, file's gone.  Here's the deal.  I'll be releasing the newer updated beta versions of all characters, plus the screenpack and 4 new characters in about a week.  I no longer see a point in reposting on filefront.  I will edit the release post to point everyone to: www.mugenhistory.com (http://www.mugenhistory.com) where the new file will be available shortly and suggest that the mods lock that topic.  I'm glad you're interested in this beta superyuzqy, so I hope you can wait just a bit longer for the better version to be posted.

Once again, the quick version:  Wait 1 week, www.mugenhistory.com (http://www.mugenhistory.com), games, KOFE.

I apologize for the inconvenience and filefront's dirty tactics.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: superyuzqy on May 23, 2008, 03:25:23 am
Thank you!:)
Wait for the new release,come on man :D
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on May 26, 2008, 02:03:23 am
Lucky, I've retained my access to the internet somewhat.  KOFE has jumped a few steps beyond where it was during the first release.  I'm still waiting on missfairy for the final date (she's coding Angel's AI at the moment), but it'll be this week for sure. Since I won't be releasing an updated log in my pdf, I'll just note some of the changes here:

-Now comes with copy of Mugen complete with a KOFE screenpack
-4 New characters (Angel, Chizuru, Joe, Ryo)
-Universalized hitsparks, guardsparks and grabsparks.
-Fixed most normal throw glitches for all characters
-Added burn sparks to all fire moves (so getting burned isn't just a palfx)
-Fixed a few missing collisions and states for some characters.
-As per Shion's request fixed Takuma's Hao Sho Koken sprites and animated Kasumi's DM grab execution to more accurately mimic XI.
-As per K.O.D's request, I've made all dodge state collisions a single default one (will do same for guards in next release)
-As per Baiken's request, I've added a state 5200 to all characters to shut up the debugger.
-Hopefully fixed K's sunglasses helper glitch (it hasn't occured in testing)
-Added new sprites and animations for new special intros (like King and Ryo for example)
-Will be adding modified stages that all scroll in the same manner to give the game a more universal feel.

There's a bit more I think, but there's a big difference between this release and the last one and I think you get the picture.  As for the release itself, it'll be on the assumed basis of download and play.  No editing required.  This mean, despite how much I'll be hated, I will be adding all the music in addition to the stages screenpacks and characters.  There's no point in releasing solely characters anymore because they require the screenpack to work properly.  I apologize in advance.  Future releases will be much smaller.

*Special note.  When UM comes out and sprites become available, I will be changing Kasumi's f,d,df +k attack to the anti air slash (a la Ryuuhaku) that she has in that game.  Means I'll be modifying the sprites.  I find Kasumi's balance slightly off and feel this change will help tone her down a notch.

Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Shion on May 26, 2008, 08:28:17 am
I Think you should keep the Music a seperate download.  The stages and characters are fine, but music isn't necessary to actually play the game, and would add a large amount to the file size.  Plus I would imagine alot of us already have most of the KOF OST's already.  You can still write the filenames for the music in the stage.def's but just include the music folder as a seperate download concurrent with the SP/Char/Stages download.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on May 26, 2008, 05:00:49 pm
I'll see what Ruben will allow me on his site.  If I can do a release with music and one without, then I will.  If not, I'll have to go with music.  I agree that most people here probably already have most of the KOF music (though it might not be edited the same way through volume increases etc...), but I don't think Mugen Guild members are the only ones downloading.

The first release had approx 300 downloads in total and about half downloaded either the full version or the extras pack (the non character stuff).  Tells me there are a lot of people looking for the complete game, without the hassle.  Plus, I post links to my files through youtube, so brings a few extra people in.  I do this basically because I had a couple friends who tried to download and play and the last release, but didn't because it was just too much for them.  We're not all computer proficient after all.

I'll contact Ruben and give an update when more is known.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: weakinall on May 26, 2008, 07:30:08 pm
Support your works as before.
expect your new version's coming.
I think It has better be a full game.
stages and musics could be uploaded to a netdisk,such as fs2you, zshare, frontfile and so on.
thanks for your great work again. and wait...........
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on May 28, 2008, 04:40:02 pm
While conversing with a well known retired Mugen contributor, I was taught the secret people seemed to shy away from sharing (or maybe I just posted the requests in the wrong section...).  I finally know how to rip voices and sound effect from KOF games.  I posted a topic in the development help section here:

http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=80764.0 (http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=80764.0)

Hopefully it'll keep people out of the same boat I was in.  I can finally X off O.Shermie's 2k2 voices from my requests list.  Now only the Diana sprites and Robert sprites remain. :)

I am still working on the polish of the next beta and missfairy's still working on the rather difficult to program AI for Angel.  Hopefully we can make it a weekend release.  Stay tuned.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on May 30, 2008, 06:03:58 pm
Expecting the release to be sometime tomorrow.  Missfairy's almost done with Angel and I'm gonna pull an all nighter to get 'er dun.  I should note to save for any misconceptions, that while a lot of bells and whistles and glitches are being fixed in this release, the original 12's movesets are the same.  Kasumi's gaining her fierce punch from XI (how did I miss that?), Leona's earring move is now qcb +k (the PDF has been tidied up), but not much else has been changed in terms of playability.

Also, while doing final checks of the screenpack and taking [E]'s character select screen into consideration, I've slotted the characters according to their placing in respects to team grouping and placement.  I've also add another row, so no characters will be "invisible" during selection. 

This leaves leaves 5 empty slots with my current roster, which means there's room for 5 additions.  I'm not 100% confirming this yet and while I have 5 characters in mind, nothing's official.  So if you think there are holes in my roster, feel free to input your selections/opinions.  I've considered some, like Shingo due to their long standing with the franchise, but I'd probably be changed "clones" like that drastically to keep them a bit more different.  Someone I'm really interested in is Lee Pai Long.  Giving him a Vega(Balrog)/Gen wall jump blend would make his style stand out in this game.  There are others, but I'll listen before I make any choices.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: K.O.D on May 30, 2008, 06:09:53 pm
K9999, Lin, Shen Woo, Kusanagi, Eiji Kisaragi.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Shion on May 31, 2008, 07:48:58 am
Goro Daimon, May Lee, Wolfgang Krauser, Oswald & whoever. Lee Pai long would be fine in the last slot.

May lee could go on the justice team instead of Rock.  Goro would boot angel off the hero team.  Dunno about the rest, I just like them.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Bastard Mami on May 31, 2008, 04:58:53 pm
you can either use the rest spots to fix up the teams or to fill up gameplay holes. SinceI consider gameplay important I am refraining from suggesting characters until I play the latest beta, so I can see which gameplay styles can add more to the game.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on June 01, 2008, 08:15:28 am
Shion, Krauser's already in.  Rock's out of the Justice Soldiers currently (undisclosed replacement).  And I believe, it's Vanessa currently on the Hero team (Angel got moved back to the Cartel). ;)

I wouldn't worry about making characters that would make a good team member "storywise".  I don't know about you, but when I play KOF, I never touch Chin or Choi (not that there's anything wrong with them).  I don't want to have a game where there are characters that no one will ever pick, but just look nice with the rest of the team.  We'll fit any character in somehow.  I just want you to play them.  I'm makin' em after all. :)

The release of the beta's a bit late.  Missfairy's swarmed with non-Mugen stuff, so I'll be picking up the slack and finishing up Angel AI.  It won't be pretty, but at least it'll be something.  Hopefully Ruben will be checking his e-mail tomorrow, cause he'll be the one posting the game on mugenhistory, so even if I'm finished, nothing happens until it goes up.  I'm hoping for tomorrow.  Everything else is finished.

I'll keep the unnamed 5 open for discussion for a bit.  No rush to pick them after all.  I'll hit a 2 week break and be back with Vanessa after the release, although I'll still be checking the forum and stuff.  The plan is to release the 4th wave as individual character releases, so you guys aren't kept waiting for me to finish 4.  We'll see how that goes.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: superyuzqy on June 01, 2008, 01:39:17 pm
You can try http://www.fs2you.com/en/
This is a good place to upload the game. ;D
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on June 01, 2008, 10:47:12 pm
Thanks for the suggestion superyuzqy, but I'll probably stick with mugenhistory for now.  All my youtube videos point to that site so it's easier for non-mugenguild members too.

Everything's done, just waiting for Ruben to get back to me and I'll post in the release section.  Angel's AI isn't terribly difficult, but I'm still very limited in AI programming.  I'm sure missfairy will go back and take a look at it later when she has time.  There will be 2 versions released.  One with music and one without.  All the music is from AST of Fatal Fury/KOF/AOF games and have been edited to be louder and "battle ready".  Not hard to do yourselves, but it saves you the trouble.  The full version is about 277 MB.  The game includes special edits of stages because in my game all stages must bindhigh at -10 (for those who know what that means), so in quite a few cases I have to add 10 pixels worth of graphics to "extend" the backgrounds and allow them to scroll better ('96 stages especially).  It also includes a scrolling version of Station Obsolete from SVC that I made because I couldn't find one (Cirios doesn't).  I'll be releasing it as a seperate release for those who're just interested in the stage.

Hope I didn't forget anything.  If I did, let me know.  Baiken will probably point out if I botched the pdf again.  Least, I hope so.  Thanks and enjoy.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: superyuzqy on June 02, 2008, 12:16:30 pm
Ruben is slow :(
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on June 02, 2008, 09:31:54 pm
He's probably busy with other stuff.  Don't worry, I'll post as soon as I know it's up.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: weakinall on June 03, 2008, 04:00:26 am
Wait and wait .
expect its uploaded.............
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on June 03, 2008, 08:22:12 am
After a long wait period, the game in it's current form is up:

http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=81092.0 (http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=81092.0)

All information relative to the actual release that hasn't already been posted on this topic, has been posted there.  I'll be reading both the release thread and here.  I prefer this thread for deeper discussion, but I won't tie your hands.  Enjoy!
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: K.O.D on June 03, 2008, 08:46:14 am
My download got interrupted and resuming gave an error, so i went to redownload and noticed there's a 1 download per user limit (from Mugen History, No Music Version)

Only the PDF file was complete, so here's what mistakes i found in it :

-K''s theme is KD-0079, not KD-0097.
-Joe's QCF,QCB + P move name is Explosive Hurricane Tiger Heel not Exploding Tiger Slash.
-Joe's Screw Upper as a HSDM is a very bad idea since its a necessary Joe staple move which he has had it since forever, you should've made his Golden Tiger Kick as a HSDM which would fit better.
-K' (Dash) not (Prime)
-You didn't give K''s One Inch and Knee Assault their names in the Command Moves.
-K''s Minute's Spike follow-up name is Narrow Spike, not Low Kick.
-K''s Crow Bite follow-up name is Tsuika Kougeki, not Plus Attack.
-K''s Blackout is meant as a move to be quickly executed with a QCF, making it a HCF move removes the very little usefulness it has.
-K''s SDM name is Chain Drive, not Heaven's Heat Drive (i think i said this before in previous feedback)
-Also include Iori's Movelist in Japanese as well, since most people (like me) know it by their original names.


Real feedback tommorrow since thats when i can download it  :P
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on June 03, 2008, 10:06:53 am
Sorry you had problems downloading it K.O.D.  I didn't realize there'd be a limit. :(

1. - Aw nuts, course I had to spell that one wrong.
2. - Move's a little different.  He does the Tiger Heel on the SDM version only.  DM version does the RB Tiger   
      Slash as the finish.
3. - I think this is personal preferrence.  The Screw upper is huge (RB version) and covers a good chunk of
      the screen.  Looks like more of a "big" attack.  Gameplay wise, I'm hoping the differences between his
      two current DMs compensates for the projectile loss.  Plus, I changed this for Goentiz' sake who will have 
      Joe's KOF style Screw Upper tornado 2 as a DM (the non-full screen travelling version).  Gotta keep
      characters different and varied.
4. - Okay, I give up.  Everyone wants it to be dash, I'll switch it to dash for the next release.
5. - I don't name unique moves.  It's too hard to find their english names.
6. - Thank you.  I find it hard to hunt these names down.
7. - Trying to keep everything universal.  Personal pref of mine.  I'd prefer all names to be in Japanese
      myself, but I can't translate the English ones.  Do you know the correct English translation for this one?
8. - Okay, if it's a control issue, I'll switch it for the next release.
9. - Thanks, I'll change it.
10. - See 7.

Once again, sorry for the downloading issues.  I hope this doesn't become a big problem...  I look forward to gameplay feedback.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Shion on June 03, 2008, 10:28:36 am
I also couldn't download it from Mugen history, the download ended at 5%ish and I checked the archive and got a "Unexpected end of archive" error.  Then I couldn't redownload because it says that I've reached my download limit for this file.

I'm currently downloading the one w/ music from filefront (ugh)...
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on June 03, 2008, 11:13:52 am
(Sigh)...  Well that just sucks...  And mugenhistory's download screen looks so nice...
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: weakinall on June 03, 2008, 11:48:58 am
But whatever mugenhistory or filefront, downloading is so hard.
except someone who have finished downloading could upload to some other space. such as fs2you and so on .

So far ,it  is  too difficult to download.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on June 03, 2008, 12:26:32 pm
This should be the only file of this size until the next big update.  That's at least 2 waves away.  It'll be just character by character for a bit.  Smaller files.  Come the next update, I'll look into splitting the rar files to make them smaller.  Don't know how to do that right now, so I'll have to read a quick tutorial on it.  Don't really have much more I can do at the moment.  File sharing places in general are slow.  Plus this really isn't my area of expertise.  Sorry guys.  :-\

I'll try uploading to this fs2you after work.  Just the music version though.  Hopefully that'll be faster for the Chinese downloads anyway.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: weakinall on June 03, 2008, 02:30:49 pm
Thanks a lot!
waiting for your fs2you downloading site

It is a very good  free netdisk,
and it could preserve the data for a longer time.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: superyuzqy on June 03, 2008, 04:47:05 pm
I like fs2you too! The speed is fast :)
Thanks swipergod!
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on June 03, 2008, 09:15:50 pm
Sorry guys.  fs2you doesn't work well for me.  I don't know if it's because I'm in Canada or not, but it's super slow and I can't get the uploader to function on my computer.  Do you have any other suggestions?  Does anybody?  I feel really bad that people can't download this game properly.  Sorry guys.  :-\
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: superyuzqy on June 04, 2008, 10:16:21 am
I finishde the download  :sugoi:
The game is so cool,every char seems very clever and strong!
I upload it on fs2you,the download link is
http://www.fs2you.com/files/f5153a0a-320b-11dd-b643-00142218fc6e/
if someone can download ,please tall me ;)
thank you!
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: weakinall on June 04, 2008, 03:51:03 pm
It is  very  kind  of you ,finally ,I get it!
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on June 04, 2008, 08:27:01 pm
I'm glad you guys were finally able to download it.  Enjoy.  Since it was a little difficult for me to recall all the feedback for the first release, I've decided that this page in the topic will be dedicated to people's feedback on technical issues and fixes.  I will not ignore personal opinions, but I will wait for gameplay arguments and multiple complaints before considering them.  It will be easier for me to use as a reference when I start fixing these issues.  I will not post repeats of the issues I've already identified in the release post as I am already aware of them.

-K.O.D. caught errors in the pdf that need to be resolved.
-K.O.D. strongly suggests changing K' blackout to a qcf motion
-YagamiC4 noted a problem with the super sparks that needs to be resolved
-YagamiC4 has some issues with the charge D, u motions.  Is this an issue for others?
-Iced suggested Special KOs for male characters
-Baiken suggested shortening the godpress changestate time stemming from issues in Geese's stage.
-Baiken strongly suggested making Ryo's parries cancelable only if they connect.
-Baiken strongly suggested changing the voice for Kim's HSDM
-Several people are looking for more moves/follow ups for Kim.  Although I think Kim is very strong as it is and extra moves might throw off his balance.
-People miss Iori's f +wp,wp.  Although I don't find the move necessary from a gameplay standpoint considering the animation copies Iori's far strong punch initially.
-[L] noted I missed someone in the credits and his own name was misspelled.  Will most certainly change that.
-[L] strongly suggested switching Iori's crossup kick to f +wk while in the air.
-[L] suggests standardizing special and DM velocities.  Creating a universal y accel for these moves could help.
-[L] strongly suggests universalizing feel/frequency of the characters to make them feel more like they're from the same game.  Any further input here would be appreciated.  Which characters feel most out of place in this game and why.
-weakinall notes Terry has a running glitch most likely caused by a duplicate variable.
-weakinall isn't a big fan of Sander's Chizuru throw b and requests the animation change.
-"Unique chains system" to be implemented for the next release.
-[E] noted a problem with character abilities to do crouching basics while running.  Big problem that needs to be fixed.
-[E] suggested increasing the hitby value at the end of rolls
-[E] caught a glitch that doesn't allow Ryo's parries to block fireballs.  Needs to be fixed.
-[E] sees a problems with ground to air hitting.  Will have to test to determine a solution.
-[E] noticed a sexy ko glitch with diagup animations.  Will look into it.
-[E] caught an infinite with Angel's qcf +sk.  Must fix.
-[E] believes K's damage is off.  Will test and confirm
-[E] caught a throw error with some characters.  Will look into move activation permissions for throws and close up attacks
-Adjusting close attacks so they trigger at < 20 not <25 like before.

Anyway, that's it for now.  I look forward to hearing more input/issues and thank everyone for downloading and trying the WIP out.   :sugoi:
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Byakko on June 04, 2008, 08:36:50 pm
Quote
-People miss Iori's f +wp,wp.  Although I don't find the move necessary from a gameplay standpoint considering the animation copies Iori's far strong punch initially.
One of his most renowned combo is : cross-up Yuri Ori, land close LK, Yumebiki, Aoi Hana * 2, Ya Otome. See how the lack of cross-up Yuri Ori and the lack of Yumebiki severely break Iori's entire offense. I don't think it would be right to replace it with HP since the damage will be different and changing the commands around just for that doesn't really seem like a conscious, educated tweak.
Quote
-[L] strongly suggested switching Iori's crossup kick to f +wk while in the air.
While crossing up. That is, when he's in the air and going behind the opponent (or in other words, with the opponent behind him). It still needs to stay as b+LK when the opponent is still in front of Iori and not behind, so that you still can do the "fast backdash" trick (dashback and in the middle of dashback, hit LK, he'll do Yuri Ori and fly backward way faster since he's not slowed down by the regular dashback velociy)
Quote
-YagamiC4 has some issues with the charge D, u motions.  Is this an issue for others?
I haven't tried Terry, but I didn't notice anything off with Kim's Hien Zan. @YagamiC4 : are you using the keyboard or a gamepad ? I'm using keyboard here, sometimes it makes a difference. But I don't know how that difference is fixed most of the time...

And of course, like the first time in the WIP topic, I still heavily suggest just keeping what the original game has (K' Black-out and Air Trigger commands, Saika, general movelists...) but that's just repeating myself.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on June 04, 2008, 09:06:52 pm
The issue to me here seems to be Iori's lack of the ability to chain his close lk or perhaps the hitstun delay of the crossup itself (it's useless if you can't combo from it, that's what I'm getting).

Most weak attack can only chain into specials/DMs.  Why you ask?  Well, you're considering Iori well enough, but what about a character like Whip?  Allow Iori to run a rampage with basic techniques and specials for bigger damage without forcing you to store up a DM cripples other character's effectiveness.  Whip has no real defense against someone who can just consistently chain basics.  Once Whip's competency lowers, balance is broken.  At the moment, none of my characters weak attacks chain is to strong attacks.  Forces you to rethink your strategy and gives slower characters more of a chance to play their keep away game.  I may not be explaining this as clearly as I'd like, but hopefully the point is coming across.  I personally don't see the problem with Crossup, Standing SP, qcb +p x3 or for more damage Maiden Masher.  Thus forcing you to use a DM to deal the bigger damage and keeping the game more level.  Iori is one of the few people currently that I'm able to beat Rugal with, so I don't think he's weak or useless by any stretch.

So I should leave the crossup command as is?

I use a Sega Saturn pad when I play, and I do alright.  Seems Keyboard's okay as well.  I don't know how it works with an arcade stick though.  Anyone with an arcade stick or gamepad like to comment?
K's blackout motion will be changed.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Bastard Mami on June 05, 2008, 01:49:24 am
The chaining comment is not like that.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on June 05, 2008, 02:42:49 am
This is what I understand from the chaining comment.

In KOF games, a classic Iori combo is:

Crossup with f+wk,standing wk, f +p,p, qcb +p x2, qcf,hcb +p

I make the argument that you can simply do:

Crossup with f+wk, standing/crouching sp, qcb +p x3 or qcf,hcb +p (or combine the 2, I'm not opposed to that).

The major difference is about 60 points of damage.  I make a response to that above.  The fact that once you connect with the cross up, you can combo doesn't really change.  It remains a combo starter.  It's not necessary to do a wk of f +p,p, it's only preferred.  It technically doesn't affect gameplay or Iori's offense, it's just for nostalgic flair.

I posted earlier on this board, I don't like recycling animations unless I absolutely must, so if I can get away with finding a way around it without majorly affecting gameplay, I will.  Kasumi's an example of a character where that's unavoidable.  People haven't noted that I've done the same type of move removal for Chizuru and her hoping lk or Whip and her f +p,p,p,p,p move.  Most seem to like Whip because the move isn't really missed except by a few.  Both Whip and Chizuru have moves that compensate for these losses and I'd note that Iori does as well.  If the move functioned differently, like it an autoguard or something, I probably wouldn't remove it, but it's just an sp with an extra hit tacked on the end.

That said, I have no issues with you adding it in to your downloaded version.  The animation is still in there.  I never completely remove animations specifically for that reason.  The game's for you pleasure and free to be customized by you (it's not moleboxed after all), and if Iori's f +p,p is a must, by all means, please add it.  I just don't see the point of adding it for the official releases.


Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: weakinall on June 05, 2008, 05:45:15 am
1,terry, after starting D, F, D ,F, a or b to hit p2, he can not run after that.
2, Chizuru_Kofe, when starting F or B, b.......  to  put p2 to the ground,
   the p2 state is strange........could you modify it?

thanks
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: YagamiC4 on June 05, 2008, 08:37:13 am
I am using a gamepad.  I'm not saying the charge down moves are incorrectly programmed in the cmd or anything, I've just noticed that simply defining a command as ~20$D, U, b in a mugen cmd produces much harder to perform moves than in the original game.  It's mugen's fault not swiper's.

With that in mind I've noticed some creators use different coding tricks to remedy this.  If i'm not mistaken I believe vyn might know what I'm talking about.

One more question, do I just really suck or is Iori unable to chain air strong kick to crouching strong punch.  Not saying he should be able to just asking.  Which KoF's is this chain present in anyway?
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on June 05, 2008, 07:07:55 pm
Terry's gotta var problem huh?  I'll test it out.  I remember Mai having a similar problem after you did deadly ninja bees.  That one's fixed though.

Not a fan of Sander's b throw animation?  My friend used to joke that it's the best animation in the game. :D  I can change it to actual KOF animation though.  Not a big deal for me.

Naw, that's alright YagamiC4, I'd blame myself for that one.  If there's a code that can improve D,U commands, then I should be using it.  [E] made a suggestion in a developmental topic to add state 40, I believe, to the triggers of D,U moves so they could be executed in the pre-jump phase, giving the player more time to do the move.  I'll check it out.  I don't see how it could hurt to add it in anyway.  If all else fails, I'll ask vyn about it.

I'll test out Iori a little more.  It seems, through demand, that his combo-ability must increase.  I might add more basic moves from which he can combo from.  The hitstun may not last long enough for the two to combo.  But, from what I remember, I could do a 5 hit sp chain no problem.  And jumping sp and sk have the same hitstuns.  If you're referring to the crossup combo, I believe the combo is present in all KOF's from '97 on, but I could be wrong.  Feel free to correct me.  YagamiC4, I believe the debate is about the crossup combo though, not sk.  Give that one a go.  You should be able to chain from that (currently it's b +wk in the air).  If not, a longer hitstun might help.  More testing underway...
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: weakinall on June 06, 2008, 07:52:50 am
"Not a fan of Sander's b throw animation?  My friend used to joke that it's the best animation in the game.   I can change it to actual KOF animation though.  Not a big deal for me."

HA,I am really not. the actual KOF animation is best to me.
could you modify the b throw, and terry's  running problem and  send the patchs to me first?
I am working on modify the sparks to fit on my XI full game..... and require your perfect characters
thanks a lot!

email: weakinall@yahoo.com.cn



Your full  game is best, come on!
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on June 06, 2008, 02:26:04 pm
Hey weakinall.  I'm actually taking a coding break for the next week and a bit.  I'm working on another non-Mugen related project and just taking an all around breather.  I worked on Mugen for 2 months straight, so I really need to catch up with other stuff.  So the fixes will be a little while longer.

Also, upon re-reading [L]'s post on the release topic and Iori comments here and playing '98 again, I realized that the standing/crouching unique moves do, in fact, have a quick animation that allows them to chain from a jab hit.  While that chain system in implemented in my game, the animation isn't quick enough for the unique move to "combo" from the first hit.  This should be an easy fix that I can implement into the next game.  While I still don't see the point to Iori's f +wp,wp, I can easily make his overhead kick chain in the same manner.  For characters without standing/crouching unique moves (like Whip), I will have to come up with a counter measure to balance this out.  Something like a unique chain without the actual unique move.  That'll be implemented for the next major release.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Bastard Mami on June 06, 2008, 04:39:32 pm
I don't get what you mean by unique moves.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Byakko on June 06, 2008, 07:05:15 pm
Following his .pdf, what he calls "unique moves" are the command moves (hold a direction + attack, like K's One Inch, Iori's Yumebiki etc.)
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Bastard Mami on June 06, 2008, 08:00:13 pm
I get it; what happens here is that some if not several of those unique moves have different animations and properties depending if you use them standalone or you cancel to them. Most of the time they become/stop being cancellable or lose their overhead properties.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on June 07, 2008, 12:32:19 am
yup, yup! ;D  And with some (like Yashiro's) they lose their knockdown ability.  I'm researching.  I'll start implementing the changes with the new characters and slowly work backwards.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Bastard Mami on June 07, 2008, 05:23:19 pm
Just make them two different states to avoid headaches.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on June 07, 2008, 08:37:18 pm
[E] Agreed.

This next part is a response to the tier comments from the release topic:

http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=81092.20 (http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=81092.20)

There is a good point being made there.  But here's some of the issues that have forced me to cut from the upper tier characters rather add on to the lower tier characters.  If you've noticed, I have been adding to the lower tier characters.  Whip has a new unblockable straight shot move and a wider ranged SDM with good juggling ability.  If you look at Angel, she one of the few people with 6 specials movelist (and then some).  It has expanded on their gameplay.  The reason I can't really do more than I have is because:

a) I'm trying to stay loyal to the characters, by not giving them wild new moves that don't make sense character wise.  Angel doesn't need a dp and Whip doesn't need a hurricane kick.

b) Sprite limitations.  I've said it before, I'm a sprit-dicap.  I've managed a few edits, but working from scratch is like me walking into the mouth of hell.  It's a doomed venture.  Characters, especially the newer ones or ones that have been redrawn several times, just don't have enough sprites to new stuff.  Still, I do what I can.  It's for these reason's that I'll be using Kyo's 99-2k2 sprites.  His newer rendition just doesn't have enough.

So I add to the lower, but only being able to do so much, I remove some from the higher to maintain balance.  For example, Ryo's qcb +p move was removed because it's functionality already existed in 2 other moves.  The autoguard exists in zanretsuken and the advance in the wk version of hien.  I enjoy making you think more while you play, so if you can't do the one move that has both advantages, you'll have to further analyze the situation before picking which one to use.  If you're pressured, you may have to guess, which could leave an opening for big punishment, but that's all part of fighting gameplay. :)

In another example though, I gave an already high tier player a sixth move.  Terry has his slide in this incarnation.  I gave it to him because I think it really add something to his gameplay without damaging the balance.  After all it, like most of his advancing attacks are a touch slower than most.  And I believe it complements the crackshot.  I'm trying to make characters fresh by making some of the gameplay fresh, but not removing everything you know and love (just a couple).  So returning to Iori or Kim or Ryo, I felt they were much more complete as is.  Adding more isn't always the way to change up a character.  Sometimes removing something to make you focus on other moves works just as well.  As I mentioned before, I feel there's a heavier favor upon a close game with Iori now, which wasn't present in KOF and personally I think it makes him a bit scarier.  You've gotta get past the "it's not precisely like the real games", because you're right it's not.  It's not supposed to be.  If you think something should be a certain way, give me some examples as to why.  If I agree, or can't defend my choices, I'll change it.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: K.O.D on June 07, 2008, 08:41:14 pm
Kyo 98 is better, you can also add his 182 shiki using SvC sprites (like im doing with my Kyo)
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on June 07, 2008, 10:43:32 pm
Totally agreed there.  I personally hate 99-2k2, but I'm also thinking the hcb +k moves.  Hopping punch explode thing and the standing explode punch thing.  For the hop version, I'll be giving him the 2k version as the weak version, and the '99 version as the strong version.  The standing explode punch thing will work as a separate counter move.  Really gives interesting possibilities to Kyo.  It's a compromise, but that's why I'll be adding the sun onto his back for all sprites.  I really think he needs that.  He'll be up next after Vanessa.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Bastard Mami on June 08, 2008, 01:40:14 am
In the last relese I said that I saw where this project was heading to; it's ncie to see that it still is going in that direction. Now it feels more like a new game than a "let's put kof characters together with all their moves and call it a day". That being said, there will always be stuff to point out.

I ill use kof key style while talking about the buttons.
Some of the chains are irregular, like terry can chain his fwd+A after a crouching C, but not after a standing C, it happens with other characters and other moves too.

Some chars can chain weak moves after strong ones, namely whip and kim; that feels like it was not done on purpose so I am reporting that.

I still can't see where are you going with the ground to air interaction (i.e. a character in the ground hits a character in the air), if you are going for something new, it's ok, if you want to keep it like kof, there is a lot of fixing to do.

I won't report changes from kof as this is supossed to be different.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on June 08, 2008, 02:58:38 am
Hey [E], glad to see I'm improving.  Thanks.

The irregular chain thing was done on purpose, but in light of all the discussion here, I'll be completely revamping the 2 in 1 system to something more universal.  Of course the Unique Chains will play a part in that.

I'll need a little more with the ground to air thing if you can offer it.  Are you referring to the type of juggle system the game currently has the pop up system (like Angel being able to combo her dash throw from the weak circlet finish)?  I can tell you that there probably are some juggling glitches in the game.  Baiken pointed out some big ones in the first release. 

What has been done on purpose is that projectile have unlimited juggle (i.e. juggle=0), except in broken cases like Geese's Thunder break.

Something that hasn't been done on purpose, but that I've been unable to fix is something like Chizuru's jab DP.  I can't make it recognize the juggle =10 variable it should have.  It's a helper so it separates itself from the base character's juggle count (like projectiles do) and it doesn't want to activate variable I try to use to trigger the juggle state in her non helper state.

Just wanted to point out that I'm really glad there seems to be a lot more interest in the release this time and I've having a great time hearing you KOF view and giving more insight on the project.  Last time only 300 people download the characters period, but with this release, after just one week, over 450 downloaded them (215 without music and 235 with music) and that's not counting the China sites superyuzqy posted the full game at.  While, this might be a small figure for some, it's a very big accomplishment for me as I was hoping for 600 in total and it looks like I might surpass that.  And the roster's only 1/3 complete.  Thanks for all the interest and playing the game.  I'm still hoping some of the regular board visitors will post their comments/feedback too (where did you go Shion?)
 
Cheers :sugoi:

Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Shion on June 08, 2008, 03:13:44 am
I'm here and I finally got it downloaded, but I've been really busy lately, so I havn't gotten a chance to play it much, although I did check out Angel....just not enough to make a comment.  You will get feedback from me though, it just might take a while.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Bastard Mami on June 08, 2008, 08:51:49 pm
By ground to air game I mean both juggling and air recovery. More importantly for me now is the fact that rolls are very dominant in the game, mostly because they have a lot of invincibility in the end, I think they should be much more vulnerable in the end, even if that ends up weakening the ais now, it looks like they are going to be recoded anyway.

[EDIT]

ryo parry can't block projectiles, it should.
   cancel frames of crouching c feel off-late

Some moves do a diagup animation and end in sexy ko, so fix your sexy ko code

Holding down + weak punch with leona shuld trigger the crouching punch

Whip's crouching C won't trigger while running
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on June 08, 2008, 11:36:17 pm
For ground to air, opponents hit in the air should flip after getting hit by basic attacks and attacks with no airfall or fall coded into them.  The recovery animation might be too long though and I'm not sure if you can control your character while they're in the flipping state (5040) and thus block.  I'll have to check.  However, there is no Capcom SFZ3 style manual airflip recover state (5200) in this game.  I'm really not a fan of that.

For juggles, all variable have been set to 15 and most attacks should do 10.  The more juggleable ones do 5.  I know in 2 player simultaneous, these variables are kinda up in the air because if p1 hits and then p2 hits with a follow up, the counter just keeps getting reset. That should only be in 2p simultaneous though.

Rolls.  Right now both forward and backward rolls are 33 ticks for all characters.  Out of the 33 ticks, only the last 3 are hittable.  Do you suggest I double this value and make it 6?  I think 8 would be too much.  I'll play around with them a bit.

All autoguards should block fireballs.  If Ryo's doesn't, it's a glitch and I'll definitely fix it.  We'll see if Ryo's cancel frames are still off after the new chain system is implemented.

I'll check out the sexy ko glitch.

The last two shouldn't be happening.  I'll test and get back.

Thanks for the update [E].  Let me know if you find any other glitches.  Man, my list of things to do sure has gotten big.  Gonna have to prioritize.  I'll probably start next weekend.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on June 09, 2008, 01:41:42 am
Well, I got bored and looking at the list of glitches/fixes, I saw there were quite a few character specific things that solve pretty quick.  If you check out the list on the previous page, you'll see what fixes have been done.


The Iori Crossup's seems to have issues when you try to changed the command when you've jumped over a character cause the moment they turn, the p2bodydist code becomes neutralized and the move fails to come out at all.  Therefore, right now, it'll stay as b +wk to prevent further glitching.

[E] glad you found that running state glitch with Whip and Leona.  Turns out a lot of the characters had that glitch.  Shame I didn't catch it before the release, cause that's a big one.  Oh, well.  Fixed now.

No worries Shion, reply when you can.  Just saw a whole page go by without a post from you, which is rare nowadays. :D
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Shion on June 09, 2008, 09:38:55 am
You probably already know, but Chizuru's FDF, LP + F, LP is an infinite.  It took me a few try's before I got the timing down, but now I can easily do 100% life with it.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on June 09, 2008, 03:28:30 pm
Yeah, I just can't figure out how to correctly add the juggle to weak dp.  Each time a new helper appears, the juggle count resets and variable triggering doesn't seem to work.  As a temp solution I may have to make the weak dp impossible to chain into.  Doesn't stop you from abusing it as a combo starter though...
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Bastard Mami on June 09, 2008, 05:45:08 pm
About ground to air.

In kof it works like this: either your attacks allow p2 to fall into his feet or to fall to a liedown state. regardless of how you fall you won't recover control until you hit the ground. the balance seeems to be achieved by juggling.


About jugling.

There is a fundamental error with this theory, though it is related to strikers so it should work well if there are no strikers present.

When you hit an oponent in to the air you are given a set amount of juggle points that depends on the attack you used to launch the oponent and whether or not you got a counter hit. The points get reduced with time, so it is good to assume one point per tick. once the juggle points hit 0 you can't juggle anymore  unless you use a  move that does not require any juggle points (like oswald's ldm, mary's rpd follow up in 97,2001). some moves can't juggle in regular conditions (like kyo's qcf+D, ie. the striker bug).

How I implemented those was simply using the nojuggle check to allow my char to juggle, while giving the char, 7 juggle points in the cns as opossed to 15 and making all the moves use 10 juggle points. Then I set a var when a move hits and decrease it over time.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on June 09, 2008, 06:26:48 pm
About ground to air.

That's how it should be working.  The 5040 state has it's animation end with a -1 so control shouldn't resume until the player hits the ground unless the attack is canrecover, in which case, hitting a+x will do the recovery roll at Pos Y > 30 (20 was way too tight).  I should point out that when the AI is controlling the characters certain things happen that shouldn't because the AI "cheats" a little in this regard.  For example, AI ignores the fact that laydown time = 60 ticks.  It's been kinda a pain because some moves lose effectiveness when the AI immediately pops up after being knocked down.  It's something I can mention to missfairy.  I'd say test ground to AI with P2 as a human and see if the same issues persist.  If not, it's an AI issue.  If so, then I'll need to recode 5040 for everyone.

About juggling

Okay I alway though the cns value (set to 15 in all my characters) was the marker and if a move had a value of juggle 10 then it'd remove 10 from that marker (making 5) and thus only moves with 5 and below would hit.  So it's a time thing then.  So basic attacks should be lower and highly juggleable moves should be higher instead of the other way around.  Okay I'll test it with Vanessa once I start her.  Juggling effectively will be crucial to Kyo's gameplay, so I should try to get it right before starting him. 

This still doesn't solve the Chizuru problem, but it's a good start.

Thanks [E]
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Bastard Mami on June 09, 2008, 06:33:20 pm
No, what I said is how it "works" in kof, not mugen, since mugen's system feels broken to me I stopped using it completely and changed to a custom juggle system.

About liedown times, they should be around 11, but in mugen you can cheat and get up faster by tapping buttons.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on June 09, 2008, 09:45:28 pm
Mmm...  I see.  I do use the nojuggle check for some things and most specials juggle the way I want them to now.  I'm just not too fond of how the basics juggle.

So you can cheat?  Is there any way of disabling that?  If not, I'll have to force people to lay down like I do in Angel's elbow drop follow up.  Not really a must fix, just annoying I guess.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Bastard Mami on June 09, 2008, 11:55:16 pm
I think it's hardcoded so yeah, you have to use custom states/code.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on June 13, 2008, 06:05:33 pm
Wow, over 10000 views.  I feel special.  Thanks for taking an interest everyone! :)  I find myself bored and I really have an itch to finish the next wave as soon as I can (Kyo especially, it'll be good to get all those sprite edits behind me).  So I'll start Vanessa tonight.  Sexy Ko first.  If that goes smoothly, hopefully a weekend finish is possible.  If not, mid next week.  Then I'll wrap up the rest of the easy fixes (Charge fix, hitby addtional ticks for rolls, etc...)  The bigger fixes like the unique chain and chain corrections and error in special bindstates will come later on.

After much debate with myself, I've decided to put Mr. Big into the mix.  He'll fill the empty sub-boss slot (creating a boss team KOFE)!  That leaves 4 available slots left.  There's some demand for Eiji, so he's a strong candidate.  That's it for now.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Bastard Mami on June 18, 2008, 05:21:33 pm
Besides any posssible juggle infinites that I will be ignoring, after some play tests I found angel, kasumi and K to be particularly strong. K does too much damage currently, kasumi's unblockable chains can be done while forcing the oponent to block, angel is overall strong, but mostly she has an infinite do stand C, qcf +B, stand C again, it requires relatively tight timing and to start at a close distance.

also, and this might relate mostly to kasumi, the ai is able to do combos the human can do, mostly because it can cancel out from certain attacks, but I will wait for the next version that should fix most cancel problems before being more specific with this.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on June 18, 2008, 11:12:00 pm
Thanks a lot [E] for all the in depth coverage.  I will check all throws and close up combos for missing "do not execute while opponent is blocking" code.  Moves become far too broken if opponents can force characters into their combos at will.

K's damage will be re-evalutated.  Thanks

I will tighten the timing of Angel's qcf +b to remove the infinite.  Since I lack the skill to do infinites in the real games, it's hard for me execute and catch them in my game as well.  If you find any other infinities/broken/unbalanced combos, let me know.

Kasumi should be toned down substantially once I replace her f,d,f +k move with her anti air slashing attack from KOF '98 UM.  Have to wait for the game to come out first though.  With that move, I should be able to tone down her arsenal and bring her down a couple ticks in terms of power (I agree that she's slightly higher tier than the others currently which is the main reason for the change).

AI revisions are being worked on by Missfairy in passing, but I'll let her know that Kasumi is particularly cheap.

Vanessa is going slowly, mostly due to the amount of OT I'm doing at work.  I'm hoping to finish this weekend now, with a release sometime next week, depending on Missfairy's availability.

Thanks again [E], hopefully the next major release will be one step closer to some more solid gameplay.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Bastard Mami on June 19, 2008, 04:31:06 pm
Thanks a lot [E] for all the in depth coverage.  I will check all throws and close up combos for missing "do not execute while opponent is blocking" code.  Moves become far too broken if opponents can force characters into their combos at will.

I will tighten the timing of Angel's qcf +b to remove the infinite.  Since I lack the skill to do infinites in the real games, it's hard for me execute and catch them in my game as well.  If you find any other infinities/broken/unbalanced combos, let me know.

About that, you can make teh chars unthrowable while on some of the guard states, to make your life easier.
About angel, I think it's better if you make the hittime of the qcf+b smaller, so only the next part of the chain can hit after it, even if it means making the second part of the chain faster.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on June 19, 2008, 06:13:56 pm
Thanks again [E].  If there's more please let me know.  I'll update the glitches section later today or tomorrow.

I figured I'd do something a little different this time as it seems as though, questions arose as to what exactly do I do with these characters.  Could be seen as a little developper's journal I guess.  As much for myself as for anyone else who's interested in modifying things, but need some kind of start point.  Also, people are free/encouraged to pick out flaws in the system I currently have and suggest alternate methods that might improve speed or quality.  I'll just do this with Vanessa seeing how this'll probably be difficult with my limited picture creating ability.  I'll continue to update it here on this reply only.

Start:

Friday June 13, 2008
Conceptualizing Vanessa's balance and moveset.  Compare them to all moves she's had in all games and to all characters currently in KOFE via computer print outs of skills list (as seen in the pdf).  Look for things like damage, invinicibility frames, move types, blockability, etc...

Saturday-Sunday June 14-15, 2008
Vanessa is a female character, thus she gets a Sexy KO.  Due to the fact that there isn't a pre-existing Sexy KO for her, I have to make one.  [E] has provided me with all nude templates from which to from.  Normally doing the 5 sprites required would take me 1 day, but I'm pretty worn out this week and it takes longer.  I use King's sexy ko as the sample from which to base my shading and shaping on.  I decide, Vanessa will have a more Yuri style KO where only the top rips apart.

Wednesday June 18, 2008
I've been number crunching like crazy at work all week, so I had no energy to work on Vanessa until now.  Now that I have the Sexy KO sprite, I move on to the conversion phase.  The Vanessa that I'm using is the one from Ahuron because it has the XI sprites.  I transport the AIR, SND and SFF files over to the template folder and change the blank .def file to reflect these changes.  Once she's set up, I use Fighter Factory for most of everything else.  Since I use a modified version of CCI's base and gameplay and that doesn't mech with Ahuron's characters, I have to double check that all basic states are correct.  Things like state 40 for pre-jump or 100 for pre-run, 170 for time over and so on.  Basically all these states must be universal.  100 = pre-run, 101 = running, 102 = run stop for all characters for example.  360 = dodge back, always. 

I also have to add state some states like 950 and 20000 usually (small hop and SP KO screen respectively).  Guard states and back hop usually need to be modified from an animation standpoint so they don't glitch up (characters getting stuck in guard stun for example).  Once all the basic states are correct and matched, I do a check for sound.  Sound is the most inconsistant thing in Mugen files I find.  People just number them however they want. Base sounds are always numbered the same.  jump = 0,0/run = 0,3 and so on.  I also add the correct sound to the special KO and the dodge voices. 

I also have to make absolutely sure that the dodges are all 33 ticks.  No one gains an advantage by have a longer dodge or a far travelling dodge.  it can have as many animations as it needs, but will always last 33 ticks.  The back hop is similar in this regard.  Back hop always travels the same distance for all characters.  While running is different, back hops felt like they needed to be universal to maintain balance, so I've programmed them that way. 

Next I quickly check the throw state animations to make sure there's only a single 1 tick throw activation with no body collision (to avoid bind state glitches) and that the throw at no point has a collision that allow it or the opponent to be hit while it's underway.  I must also create throw cancel states.  Since Vanessa didn't have the appropriate sprites for this (same as guard crush), I have to rip them.  Normally I use Kawak for missing sprites (sometimes there are other base sprites missing too), but because this is an XI character I require Wuwo's rips at mugenchina.  I download the pack, pull the sprites I need and modify them in Photoshop so their palettes match (depending on the pallette, this can take a long time to index correctly).

That's as far as I can get today.  Normally I can combine this with the hitstate check and wins/intros mod and the basic attacks programming, but I'm too tired.

June 19, 2008
Before I can start playing around with the attacks and do in game testing, I've gotta program all the hitstates.  This is the part that can get pretty long, depending on how the original author formatted them.  I've got a template with every single hit state marked on it and every single character must have, not only the animation number, but the corresponding animation to that number (state 5052 being air spin hitstate for example).  All sprites used in the hitstates have to be the exact same number across the board as well.  If they're not, they'll screw up bind states like throws which call upon these states in the changeanim2 statetypes that use specific sprites (Rugal's SDM for example).  I note that Vanessa's missing her wire attack hit animation which I use as the hit.type = up animation, so I go into KOF 2k1 and rip them.  Once all the hitstates are correct, I add in the sprites and animations used for her sexy ko.

Last thing I do is check the rest of the sounds to check for any glaring omissions.  Ahuron's Vanessa doesn't have gethit sounds (hit grunts and moans), so I journey over to Galbadia Hotel to rip them.  Bad news, Galbadia is down.  So I check to see if another version of Vanessa has the sounds I need.  Vanessa 2000 by [Vanessa] has them.  I rip them.  This alone give [Vanessa] a contribution credit, regardless if it was one rip or three.  Vanessa also doesn't have hitsounds consistant with the other characters I made, so I add some of those in as well.

Last thing on the agenda today is fixing up Vanessa's portrait and mini portrait.  I use 2000 when I can because I love that art style, but not everyone in my game was in 2000.  Lucky for me Vanessa is.  I rip the portraits and convert their palettes.  I do one last scan of the animations.  I realize Vanessa doesn't have a counter attack animation that I like (the alpha counter style attack).  Vanessa's short on unique animations as it is (using the same animation for both far and close strong kick attacks).  I pull 1/2 the animation from her weak teleport follow up.  Now she's ready for intro/basics and initial testing.  But, I'll do that tomorrow...

June 20, 2008
Not really all that happy with the speed at which Vanessa's progressing considering she's a relatively simple conversion (unlike a Chizuru for example).  My new job's just wearing me out to the point where I come home tired and brain dead.  Oh well.

I immediately go to work with the intros.  Usually this is simple.  There's no gameplay mechanics to fix, so I just port over the original code and that's it.  Ahuron's timing for voices and the length of the intros are awkward though, so I touch them up.  I noted the head scratching intro and blow a kiss intro for Vanessa.  Since those will be used with Mary and Benimaru (no Ramon in my game) respectively, and I haven't started them yet, I don't touch those for now.  I then go to the win poses.  These are all done well.  I'm not a fan of the blurry voice currently being used, so I might grab some more from [Vanessa]'s version.  That'll be a final touch up though.

I go to the basics, which is already in a pre-constructed format and start editing.  Since all basic values are already inputted, all I need to do is, check the hitdefs to make sure the triggered time corresponds to the animation (jab animation hits on elem 3, so I swap), I check to see if the basic is a 2 hit attack (and add an additional hitdef + a velocity edit so both hits can connect correctly), adjust the spark xy, if there is movement in the attack, I add the appropriate velset or posadd values and now since the sparks are finally universalized, I just change the sound effects.  Since there are plenty of sound effects that are unique to certain characters, I haven't bothered to universalize them.  Vanessa has some KOF XI fx that I'm looking to keep for example.

Getting to the close strong kick attack, I decide I really don't like the way it's currently set up (a quicker version of the far strong  kick), so I give her the f +wk animation.  Thus I'm removing her overhead unique attack.  I make the decision in this case because she already has 2 special attacks that can function as overheads if I need them to and because I'll still use the animation for Vanessa's unique chain, so there's no real gameplay lost here.  I will complete the crouching and jumping attacks tomorrow.  My energy's on fizzle right now.  I quickly go in to KOFE and test.  I go to arcade mode and use the f1 (instant kill opponent key) to check the winposes.  They're good.  Really not liking the sound though.  I go into watch to check out the special leap in intro created by Sander and used by CCI for team battles.  It activates properly.  I use f2 while the computer has Vanessa in a DM to drain her life and see if the sexy ko works.  It does.  Test 1 is successful.  More to come tomorrow.

June 21, 2008
Spending the day with Vanessa today.  I immediately finish up the rest of the basic attacks and test her out.  After adjusting a few sparks and sounds, I play around a bit with her new close strong kick.  I make it an air.fall on the second hit.  Happy I do a few more adjustments to the rest of her including making her jumping strong punch a 2 hitter like it was in 2000 and move on to the throws.  Once again, this is basically a copy and paste affair since Ahuron did a good job with them.  I adjust the punch version to do an extra hit (I removed the button mashing ability from all moves in my game cause I don't like it) and I test the throw cancelling.  A few position fixes to a couple moves and basics are done.  Breather, then onto special attacks.

There are some big changes here.  First, I'm removing the wavering stance (the semi-sidestep stance), because the gameplay I'm going for doesn't include sidesteps.  Mary's sidestep and Shermie's will also be removed.  However, the counterpunch follow up remains as it's own move.  It works very similar to Takuma's, except the autoguard doesn't last as long and cover as many frames.  I port over my modified autoguard code that all autoguard moves use and set up the move.  Since the move has a heavy autoguard, the punch itself will no longer snuff fireballs.  That makes the move way too versatile and broken.

Next I fix up the cross punch.  I give the strong one a slight delay, but it moves forward.  Since the counterpunch lost it's anti fireball hit, I give it to the cross punch here.  It makes sense since it creates a type of "projectile" as well.  Since I like the way Ahuron coded the charging uppercut attack, I leave it more or less intact aside from the smaller variables like damage, poweradding, etc...  For the body shots special, as mentioned above, I'm removing button tapping from my game, so here the extra hits are automatic.  Adds some risk to the move, but it's still effective at its close range game and it has good juggling properties.  WP hits for 4 hits, SP does 6.

Last move in is Vanessa's "teleport" type move.  Both retreating and advancing version retain their punch follow ups and I alter the input code to make them easier to execute.  I figure I'll try out Ahuron's collision reduction over a nothitby code, since only low hits should connect.  This makes the move more KOF accurate anyway.  I add an extra tick of animation so the teleport covers slightly more ground.  I touch up a few more collisions and animations and I'm finished the specials.

I test her out and make a few adjustments for hit times/velocities.  The biggest change I make though is removing all the nothitby codes Ahuron had in these moves, to balancer Vanessa out a bit more.  I do however, give a nothitby code to her strong cross punch for the initial startup to make the move slightly more useful.  Also, Vanessa's teleport startup cannot be hit by jumping attacks.  Gives it a few more possibilities.  As I test, I realize that I still need to give Vanessa her stage and music.  I made my newport stage especially for her (was release about a month ago).  For KOFE the stage needs to be modified.  Once fixed, I pick her music.  Since all music levels are far too quiet, I have to go into Cooledit and pump them up.  I use Elizabeth's theme from XI.  It's battle ready, so I don't need to do any further editing.

I start the DMs.  First up is her crazy puncher (have to check the names for all these moves), the close up attack.  I don't like the way it looks in KOF, so I mod the second hit to something more savage looking.  There are some timing issues I touch up.  Biggest problem though is Ahuron didn't create a state for the last hit (opponent flies into the air and twirls until they hit the ground).  So I go in and make it.  I do her Ranbuu next.  This one was coded pretty well, so I just touch up a few timing issues, damage and shorten the miss animation lag.  For her SDM, I decide to go with the XI version of the LDM ranbuu.  I create an animation that quickens the third last hit of the regular attack, then automatically interrupt the move with another super pause into the LDM "tack on" Ahuron's already coded.  There's some glaring damage issues that take me a while to figure out.  I add the SDM bgfx and call it a day.

June 22, 2008
Since Vanessa's almost done, I'm happy and I decide to take her for a couple of rounds in KOFE.  She feels good, although I'm not a strong player of her style (anticipation type defense/offense style).  I'd say she's an intermediate character like Whip.  As I play, I note a few glitches.  She's going into hitstates that don't exist, making a lot of them look funny.  I go in and delete all non-essential hitstates.  I keep playing and discover a glitch with Kasumi's high counter that causes it to animate funny with all characters.  I go in and fix that.  Everything else looks good, so I start the HSDM.

The HSDM from 2k2 was animated poorly in my opinion and Ahuron's copied it to a T.  I'm gonna change it up a bit to give it more umph.  First, I rip Nyankoro's Krizalid longer range wave instead of the short one Vanessa uses and borrow the axis.  I adjust for Vanessa and remove the explode codes Ahuron made for the move, replacing them with a large projectile that travels.  This way, even if you don't hit up close, the projectile has good range and can hit for modest damage.  To counteract the damage segregation and to make the move look more painful, I add an extra hit.  Vanessa now hits with the straight punch before the projectile comes out (only if the up close punch connected though).  I think it looks way more HSDM worthy now.  I adjust the hit velocities and change p2's hitstate animation for the rise up after the initial hit and take her for a test run.  Since I used sprites and not animations for the hitstate change I immediately notice a mistake.  Not everyone has a wire attack hit sprites (2 of them).  I use the wire hits for the up animation, but the actual wire hits 6005,0 & 6005,1 aren't always used for none 2k1 characters like Kasumi and Chizuru.  I have to go into each and add/adjust these sprite for everyone now so this move will work and to universalize something I missed up until now.

Now that all the moves and touch ups are complete.  I go in and implement the new combo system implemented below.  To give a better idea of how it works, I showcase it in the Vanessa video I create for youtube.  A brand new Unique chain is added (state 250).  I test, it works.  I remove the SDM's ability to chain due to the heavy damage that can be inflicted (600+ damage).  She's done.  I rar her up and send her over to Missfairy for AI coding and wait for her to finish.  If anyone bothered to read all this, I salute you.  It's pretty damn long and it doesn't even cover everything.  Well that's the general picture of a KOFE mod.  Hopefully you'll enjoy Vanessa once she's released.  Cheers!
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on June 21, 2008, 09:35:40 pm
Final say on KOFE's combo system:

As I work on Vanessa, I've been conceptualizing the combo system for the game as suggested by others.  Personally, I hate combos and was happy with basic two in ones and jump attack started combos.  But you've asked for more so I've developed a system I'm happy with.  Like the DM/SDM/HSDM system, I'm going to lock it in as a KOFE gameplay standard so I don't have to debate about it anymore and just call it part of the game.

2 in 1 system:

This is the basic attack -> special/DM combo system.  Some complained about being able to chain a close SP, but not a ducking one.  The old system had specific attacks that would 2 in 1 and wouldn't generalize any SP attack for example.  Simple is better in this case and I've listened.  From now on, if close SP chains, then crouching SP will chain as well.  Makes it easier for people to remember.  Characters that can chain with close SK cannot chain with a trip however.  Also as a rule, far strong attacks cannot chain except in exception cases (like Whip and Iori).  You'll have to test characters to see which of their moves can combo cause that's too much for me to put in the PDF.

Unique Chain system:

This is a unique combo that ALL characters will have.  It links a single basic weak attack to either a "chaining version" of a unique move or a strong basic move that can then be linked to a special/DM.  This does not function like a 2 in 1.  There is only one weak attack that will start the chain.  I.E. If standing far weak punch is the chain starter, then close weak punch and crouching weak punch will NOT chain.  The chaining part of the attack (second attack) comes out quickly and recovers quickly and will be easy to combo out of.  Opponents hit by this attack will have their hit velocities severely reduced to simplify combo-ing into the special/DM.  This is the easiest way to link to your specials/DMs, but is restricted to the sole starting point.  Also note, like with 2 in 1s, not all special/DM moves can be comboed into.  In fact 95% of all HSDM cannot be comboed into.

Examples of Unique chains:  Iori: close lk, -> sp (far sp animation), -> Maiden Masher
                                      Vanessa: far lk, -> sk (XI overhead animation), -> her Ranbuu

Same chain system:

Some weak attacks can combo into themselves again or other weak attacks.  Rapidly tapping wp for Terry, for example, will see his close jab chain into another close jab, a far jab or crouching jab.  Not all characters can to this, but balance it out with other advantages (Whip's range is one example).  In combination with the unique chain system, this can tack on a couple extra jab hits to your combo.  Hey, every little bit helps right.

That's it for the combo system.  Comment now if you have other ideas or a change or two to suggest, because once it's implemented, it's final.  I won't go back and re-edit all my characters 20 times over after all.  Also note that I'm not a fan of XI or a huge fan of 2k2 and do not like move "cancelling", so dream cancels and so on won't be seen in my game.  Sorry. :(  I'll start this combo system with Vanessa onward.  Since I'm not releasing an update of my main game this wave, these changes won't be happening with the current roster yet, so no patches, just patience.

Other news:  Duck King, Eiji and Xiang Fei are now a part of the roster.  Only one spot remains.  I'm replacing Kensou this wave with either Billy Kane or Yamazaki because they already have alphas and it's less work for me to do.  Next wave, I'm replacing Andy with Blue Mary.  I want to implement her leg snap and arm snap animations for everyone sooner rather than later.  Andy will have to wait until after the MotW Wave.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on June 22, 2008, 11:05:38 pm
Short & Sweet.  Vanessa's done.  Just sent her over to get some AI from Missfairy.  While we wait, I'll post her video:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=4yOdPdiDqmc

At the end, you can see the Same Chain system at work and the Unique Chain system.  If all is well, she should be released this week.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on June 29, 2008, 03:37:47 am
My apologies for not updating this topic as regularly as I usually do.  I'm pretty much drowning in another project at the moment.  I'm still doing this project though and am confirming that Jhun Hoon will be the final entry into my roster.  In fact I was working on him for most of the past week and only have the SDM and HSDM to complete.  However that won't happen until next weekend probably.

For those that are interested Jhun's style, like Angel's has been heavily modified.  The stances have been removed, Kusajin is a f,d,df +p move, I've turned the kick slashes into their own move that work like a combination of Whip and Yamazaki's qcb +p attacks.  And for those people who complained that Kim didn't get his qcb +p x3 move, well Jhun has it now, so it's still in the game so to speak.  Plus I've given Jhun May Lee's "Big Kick" DM as a grab DM.  You'll see everything in the vid next weekend.

Finally, this is the final team roster.  If you hate the fact that Ash is teamed up with Kyo and Iori or anything else, my suggestion is to go play KOF '99, select Xiangfei and hit the start button during play, cause that pretty much how I feel about changing this at this point.

Edited (swapped Ash with Duck):

Hero Team:                               Neo Cartel:
Kyo, Iori, Benimaru, Duck                     K', Kula, Maxima, Angel

Fatal Fury:                                      Justice Soldiers:
Terry, Andy, Joe, Mai                         Athena, Kim, Jhun, Kensou

Art of Fighting:                                Ikari Warriors:
Ryo, Robert, Yuri, Kasumi                   Leona, Ralf, Clark, Whip

Gorgeous Fighters:                          Desciples of Orochi:
King, Mary, Vanessa, Xiangfei                Yashiro, Shermie, Vice, Mature

Villains Team:                              Young Wolves:
Ash, Billy, Yamazaki, Eiji                    Rock, Gato, Hotaru, Jenet

Sub Bosses:                                   Bosses:
Krauser, Geese, Karate, Mr. Big             Orochi, Goenitz, Chizuru, Rugal

More updates next weekend.  I'm just too busy right now to do more.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: RunningWild on June 29, 2008, 05:40:26 am
Why is Duck King on the villains team? He's not a bad guy.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on June 29, 2008, 04:36:23 pm
True, true.  I think from the many posts before, the general idea was with the roster I have it's pretty much impossible to make every team a logical one.  I just grouped Duck King with other FF/AOF characters, same as Ash with other KOF characters, Vanessa with other women, Angel with other NESTS story characters, etc...  When you play the game feel free to change up the roster to suit your own tastes.  I just need something to work with so I can arrange the slots in my game.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Leon Belmont on June 30, 2008, 10:46:24 am
Swap Duck with Ash and there we have it.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on June 30, 2008, 06:38:04 pm
Done.  Also Jhun is done aside from testing and the like.  Missfairy's still working on Vanessa, so Jhun will probably be a next week thing.  I'll try to post a vid on Friday.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: pmc1416 on June 30, 2008, 11:53:35 pm
Keep at it
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on July 01, 2008, 05:20:17 am
lol.  I love the sig pmc1416.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on July 02, 2008, 01:39:55 am
Silly me forgot that today would be my nation's national holiday.  So squeezed in a little bit of time to post Jhun's vid:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZOwU_iEduk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZOwU_iEduk)

Have to add the chain system then it's off to Missfairy for AI coding.  I'll probably start Yuri sometime this weekend.  I've decided to go with her '99 look because I can get the most special intros out of it.  That means there's gonna be a lot of sprite ripping since I'm using Juke's XI Yuri as the template.  Shouldn't be too bad though.  She's take a little longer to do, that's all.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Dark Symphony on July 04, 2008, 10:18:47 am
The same chain system looks like it will guarantee a very combo heavy, combo-centric game. You might end up with something closer to marvel than KOF. Not that that's a bad thing. Were those chains going to be cancellable?

And why eliminate all the fun character specific features like stances and sways? Just curious....

(Forgive me for my criticisms, I like to say constructive things).

After viewing Vanessa's video I think the game is coming along nice. It's good that things will be universal. The Rick Stroud SDM/HSDM/whatever it is looks weird with the hit pause being so long before the wind kicks in. It kind of makes the wind come off weak. The multi-hit DM where she teleports back and forth... maybe she can finish the super on the front side of her opponent so she isn't uppercutting the back of someone's head at the end which just looks weird?

Another tiny nitpick... why the swaying before the big super?
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on July 04, 2008, 08:02:17 pm
I always enjoy topical discussions like this and your comments in general DS.  Let's see:

Same chain system will vary from character to character, but there will always be some kind of weak linking.  With Vanessa, for example, to balance out all the chaining she can do with weak attacks, she can't 2 in 1 a weak attack into a Special or DM.  That's when you have to same chain into a unique chain.  Other characters may or may not depending.  System's still in the test phase.  I added this combo system because of the high demand of people that wanted combos.  I'm still limiting the game's juggling values when I can though, so it won't feel too much like MVS. ;)

I think after discussing this I realized when I say I'm trying to simplify gameplay, what I mean is reduce the initial learning curve so all characters are accessible to new KOF players.  Stances, while great in technically heavy games feels too complex for the kind of system I'm trying to achieve.  Instead, I'm trying to expand on things that already exist such as adding a third counter system for Kyo and Xiangfei or Air to Ground throws for Mary, Clark and Yashiro.  There's already so much variety in KOF gameplay (which is why it's my fav fighting franchise).  I also find cancellable sidesteps to be extremely unbalanced in this kind of gameplay with dodges because you basically choose the amount of your nothitbyframes and where you want to end up.

Yah, I was thinking that after watching it a few times.  I'll see what it looks like with the windwave ignoring the hitpause.  The SDM looks weird, but I'm pretty sure that's how it was in XI (she used to grab in older versions).  I'll check it out.

She sways cause both her and Rick swayed before doing their respective versions in the game as the DM start up (I'm 90% sure on this).  It's just more noticeable in my version cause HSDM pauses are so long in my game.  Plus, it makes sense cause she can't be hit while starting up/in the sway, so no biggy.



Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: sander on July 05, 2008, 02:23:43 am
Looking at how fast you are doing your "edits" of existing MUGEN characters - I would be surprised if the quality will be good.  Did you go in and check that every animation, alignment, clsn, velocity (X and Y), damage, damage multiplier, Hit and Guard pauses,  Priority, Hitvels, Powergain, cmd cancels, combo limitations, chains etc... are accurate (or at least close to it..) for all the characters on your roster?  And also which KOF did you use as your base, cause each one has very subtle BUT gameplay changing differences.

If you did check everything and made sure they are accurate for all of them, then you need to get a life :ninja:, kidding aside, if you did that, you have just allowed me to re-retire in peace. - If not, then I go :'(  in my little corner.  If you are just aiming to do minor edits to existing characters to match your "tastes" then forgive me for being a hardcore KOF freak.

Also how much of a KOF player are you, do you play competitive games, or at least challenge some 8 year old kid at arcades (do they still have arcades o_O;), or do you just play at home vs ai..?  If you at least play VS games with other players and win some decent games then cool, if not - I have to stress that you need to listen to [E]'s blabber more about gameplay and combo issues, cause he is usually right with that.

At least you have [E] to guide you, you can be sure he knows his KOF stuff, which is reassuring.  Hope that you know your stuff too - Good luck with your project. 

Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Leon Belmont on July 05, 2008, 03:02:23 am
Since you used Jin's Iori as a base, I think you should check the alignment. Last time I checked, the sprite alignment for most his characters are incorrect. Also, I hope you recoded most (if not all) his HitDefs because once again Jin does not have accurate HitDefs. He also doesn't have accurate velocities. And one last thing which is also important is that Jin's characters don't have accurate CLSNs, you're going to have to draw the CLSNs yourself for everything that come from KOF94-2003. But for any moves from XI or NBC I guess you can't do much about that. I guess this goes for every Jin base you used.

My bad if you already addressed this, but in my opinion, it's better to take a base when it's a solid base. CCIronMugen's characters are solid bases (the ones currently available from his site, don't use his outdated characters). But when there are no solid bases, you should rip the sprites with correct alignment, and start from the beginning yourself.

The thing with taking other's work and trying to expand on them or fix them is that it can get very tedious; looking for the used and unused variables, taking away the current system and replacing them with your own, fixing or changing chains and HitDefs and the like, there is a pretty big chance you will break something else on the way. It's much more convenient if you coded everything yourself from the getgo, that way, you know what you coded and when something goes wrong you can troubleshoot the problem easier.

Also when there are moves with weird properties, that don't knockdown or hit like normals, you should take the data from the real game using ArtMoney.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on July 05, 2008, 04:29:25 pm
Thank you both for your deep insight.

There have been complaints already that some characters have been bad/not game accurate.  Although I believe the correct wording was "laughable".  I chose the base from a pre-existing characters, so I don't have to throw together an air and sff because I know how time consuming that is and would most likely double the time it takes me to make a character if not triple.  I've put aside another year and a bit to do this project, but 2 or 3 years is pushing it.  I'm doing most stuff on my own (except for AI which is all Missfairy).  Things might change if I can get more help.  The project's only 7 months old, so there's still plenty that can happen between now and then.

I do go in and adjust values like poweradd, juggling, blockdamage, high/low/mid/air/couch blockable, posadd, velsets etc...  From what I've been told, priorities should all be the same and it's collision boxes and nothit defs that'll determine the game's priority.  That's the system I'm using anyway.  Works pretty well and makes the bosses cheap without hiking their life and power levels.  I do go in and adjust animations and axis when I test out a character and notice that something looks/animates oddly.  To be honest, there are times when the animation looks like crap in a KOF game as well though (compare Yuri's SDM version of her multi-kick ranbu to weird looking LDM in XI), so I try to fix up that stuff so the animation looks smoother, velocities make more logical sense or hit impacts give more "umph" when needed.  I know there's a big movement out there for KOF acuracy in Mugen, but sometimes (varying on personal opinion of course) it feels like they miss the boat on some things.  I'm sure when you've played a KOF game you though, "well this move could work better like this" or "this move is so useless, why didn't they do it like this".  Maybe you didn't.  I could be reaching here.

The project is still a beta, so I'm just trying to get characters out there first to find out if there's major gameplay/balance issues.  Once they're resolved, I'll start with the hitbox sizes and axis positioning type of stuff as that's the kind of stuff that I'm probably going to struggle through for the first little bit and will need a touch of guidance with.

I had no real challengers in Winnipeg, where I grew up.  I was a very good street fighter/darkstalkers player, a mediocre VS series player and SNK wasn't big on people's list of competitive gaming.  Such a shame.  I beat on plenty of 8 year olds hoping one day they'd come back to whoop me.  Hasn't happened yet.  I have horrible dexterity, which is why I hate combo heavy games, although I also find it a waste of someone's quarter to have them stuck in the air getting juggled the whole match, just so someone can show off how good they are at finding things gaming testers missed.  I feel for the little people, who'd at least hope to have a bit of fun off that quarter before dying.  Hardcore gaming may be no place for cubs in some people's opinion, but it's that mentality that caused most of my fellow Winnipegers to get scared away from some really great games.

[E] is fantastic and I'm glad he's helped me as much as he has so far.  Sorry my skills aren't good enough yet to re-retire you Sander.  Maybe, 1 day there'll be someone who does take up that call.  I'm just trying to get people interested in the full game aspect and sharing benefits Mugen aspect with this project to give a glimmer of what can actually be done with this ancient tool instead of making a few characters that don't mesch with the rest of the characters in a franchise made by another creator.

ArtMoney.  I'll look into that.  I've never heard of that program before.  Thanks again.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Leon Belmont on July 05, 2008, 04:50:20 pm
I can rip sprites with perfect alignment from KOF'94 to KOF2002. It's not very difficult (http://xgargoyle.mgbr.net/tutorial/). So if you need anything in that department I'm happy to help out.

I can find some velocities as well. Keyword: some, not all. & I'm happy to beta test or check your characters for anything.

So I'm here if you ever need me for those things.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Bastard Mami on July 05, 2008, 05:05:10 pm
the 80% and the 90% accuracy techniques for hitdefs are rather simple and fast, they could be used.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Dark Symphony on July 05, 2008, 06:58:52 pm
I'm glad you're open for discussion swipe!


I agree that taking preexisting work and editing it can make a project take far shorter. It's rare in actual development that a programmer would ever even touch an actual sprite as far as creating it. And a character programmer probably never touches a stage.


As far as your philosophy on "simple", oversimplifying for beginners leads to things like Smash Brothers Brawl. A game so simple and neutered that it homogenizes the skill levels of the practiced and the practicing. This is what they were going for with that game and it pleases new players who don't know better but angers both those who were skilled in the previous version (melee), those who started brawl with more skill than others and those who attempt to get better but find their progress artificially hindered by the game.

Fighting games have never been "friendly", much like FPS', due to, well, just how they are. They are competitive by nature. They put you, one vs one, directly against someone else. Even worse, there's often no group to roll with or other allies that can carry you. As a result, "accessibility" is always an issue. Some games try to artificially acknowledge this (like Smash) by adding a lot of randomness and zaniness. Others,  like Tekken 6 and SF4, have added specific in-game features tailored to assist the losing player for the "comeback" which creates a weird cycle because now the less skilled get an advantage and have increased their chances to win... until, of course, they become skilled.

The people who will spend time on your games will not appreciate these things.

I use this philosophy: Attract non-competitive players (the ones who do not like the hard things) with looks and features. Flashy moves, cool characters... things like that.

Attract the competitive players with the deep stuff. I think you can have technical things and not throw off new players. I take tricky things like, say, Jhun's stances, and I simplify them (I don't remove them). Much like 2003 did. I agree with you that things shouldn't be tricky to do.Or too tricky to defend against. 99-00 Jhun's stances were tricky because you had to hold buttons and, depending on your controller, that wasn't even practical.

2K3 simplified it I would have simplified it a tad further because I believe, and this is key, that difficulty should come in application, not execution. So things, like the Break Spiral command or the Raging Storm command, have to go. I think you did that. Which is good. Just apply that philosophy to everything. You can control how good Vanessa's sway is and how limited or not she is in her follow ups. You can choose how you want Jhun's stances to affect his game. I currently tweak them to function as 1: Some hard counters to some very specific things in specific situations, 2: A way to create some frame traps to force a roll to counter, 3: A fun way to do a few juggles.

I know that things like that are what keep my attention and when I see stuff like that in a game (think Hwoarang in Tekken 5 as he plays a lot like that.... mad frame traps) I look and I go "I want to do that."

In the end it's your call... just leave SOME things in there for those who want to take the time to do it.

Be careful with the same chain. It's those types of things that sneak up on developers and end up being abused and making other aspects of the game obsolete. ROTD had it's crazy CD attack combos... SFA had the chain combos... KOFMI2/2006 had low Sabaki. All it takes is a simple chain starting off with a light attack that can be linked once or twice to verify and then completed into a decent damage combo to completely break and also kill the depth of a character.


Sorry for the long rant.

Real quick... three more things i'm big on, especially after the atrocities of KOF 2001 and 2002... These are just general statements and not too much based on your game (things to look out for).

1: Be cognizant of how a move feels and comes out. Make sure moves look painful and the damage occurs when it should. You don't want to end up with crap like Shemie's 2002 Stunner where they take damage in the middle of the move and not at the end. Note how NGBC fixed it. They made the actual throw part execute quicker and made the damage occur when she actually does the stunner.

2: Try not to add two moves that do the same thing, if you can help it.

3: Consider the victims. One cool thing that the SF3 series did was keep their moves short. A ranbu doesn't have to be 30 hits (in fact, it looks less painful that way). You don't want the flow of battle interrupted by soda intermissions like the Running THree or May Lee's stupid@$$ whatever the heck garbage crap move she had (what a terrible character).


I think i'm a little hard on you because your game actually has promise. Let's collaborate in the future.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: sander on July 05, 2008, 08:19:30 pm
Based on your reply, I can tell that this project is more based on how you "feel" rather than putting in hardwork to get the numbers right.  The easy route is to say "this feels better, animation is smoother, you are missing the boat here, SNK should have done it my way etc.."  The hard route which only a few follow is keeping true to the game, to try to get the "real feel" of the game by getting the numbers down. 

Looking at some of the feedback that was given here, I can see that getting accurate KOF data now is a lot more simpler than back in the days when I was still active.  I haven't even heard of some of the tools they are mentioning.

I guess it depends on your goal - are you aiming to create a MUGEN KOF game that has solid KOF gameplay with extended roster?  Or are you aiming to have a KOF game that fits your tastes (and a few others here that give you feedback)?.   Or maybe you want a KOF game that fits your tastes but has solid KOF gameplay?

Your project is still young and has lots of potential.  Just showing you your options.  Personally I would say that  you get the accuracy down FIRST, then move on with tweaking stuff to your liking (though if you tweak I still  :'(), but that's just silly old me.

Again good luck, sorry if I can't beta test / download cause the game is too big... if you can get some characters available for download maybe I can check em out.  Though it maybe months again before I post here :P, or not depending on how bored I am.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on July 05, 2008, 09:51:10 pm
Indeed these things mentioned by all of you are things that I can't say I've had much feedback on because only [E] has given my game in depth testing/feedback, while taking the goal of the project into consideration.  Most people just ask me why I took out move X replaced move Y, which is mainly based off of their personal prefs and how they'd like to play the character.  I would agree though that there's a lot of personal pref that goes into something like this because it is a lot of work and you don't want to do it twice over (your way and the exact way).

If you look at KOF'98 vs KOF'98 UM, it seems like more moves have been added than removed.  I haven't played UM yet to see how that'll affect balance, but I'm floating on the same kind of principle.  For characters who have a few moves (Ash), I plan to give them more, while characters with so many might find their movelist a tad shorter.  Observant people will notice the gameplay itself does lend itself slightly towards a KOF98, SFA2 mix due to the DM system, where there is no POW meter and not EXTRA style charging.  Just a 3 level raising stock.  That was intentional.  I did it because I love the unpredictability vs a POW style giveaway.  Things like that scream personal pref and do point towards the game being something a little different that your typical KOF game.

All that said, I would like it if Iori's walk velocities, fireball velocities and the sort were game accurate.  Absolutely.  And Leon Belmont, I would appreciate any help with the stuff you've mention.  I think what I'll do is finish the last 2 characters of this wave (Yuri and Kyo) and combo systems and then step back and take a look into making the accuracy adjustments that I'm capable of.  Probably a month and a bit away, but if you're still willing to help, I'll contact you.

[E] which techniques are you referring to and in regards to what exactly.  Vels or rips?

I a lot of respect for [E], but I also have a lot of respect for you Sander and actually feel somewhat honored that you posted here.  Yours are some of the first characters I downloaded when I first got into Mugen.  While I'd love to hear your feedback, I'd hesitate to give you a current build of some of the characters because I still need to implement some of the improvements brought up during the last beta test (namely the combo system fix among a couple others).  Although that said, since your Terry and Chizuru were base models for the ones found in my game, they are at your full disposal here:

http://files.filefront.com/Terry+Koferar/;10937024;/fileinfo.html (http://files.filefront.com/Terry+Koferar/;10937024;/fileinfo.html)
http://files.filefront.com/Chizuru+Koferar/;10936993;/fileinfo.html (http://files.filefront.com/Chizuru+Koferar/;10936993;/fileinfo.html)

Have to warn you though, Vans hated what I did to your version of Terry, so a heads up.

Dark Symphony, I will have to disagree with you on one point.  I don't like luring people in with flash, coolness etc... because when they play it and find it hard/impossible to do moves they saw in the videos it's a big turn off.  I'm not big on say luring someone into SF2 cause they thought Zangief was so cool, but end up only using Ryu and Ken cause Zangief's too hard to use.  I want to encourage people to use Angel or Jhun cause they look cool, have cool moves and hey, you can do 'em.  The depth of any game I believe is how skillfully you use the moves at your disposal not how many stances you've got or how fancied up a move is with multiple follow ups.  Plus this is KOF, so you should readily be able to use 4 characters in the case of 4 on 4 team battle.  If you devote all your time to one or two, it makes that type of fight less interesting cause then the other 2 on your team become "fillers" instead of fights.  And can you imagine going through 4 fights like that with opponent using the same 4 over and over again.  That's a yawn for me.

I'm hoping actual testing with people who use combos systems in fights will tell me if my Chain systems are broken or energy sappers.  In this department, my skill is minimal so I'll be looking to others for help.  I don't think you're being hard.  If you see some past posts on the release forum, those were rough.  You're just offering your own fighting game experiences and that's always welcome.  I may take a breather after the 1/2 point to try my hands at something none KOFE related.  In cases like that collaboration is always good.

Thanks a bunch everyone.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Dark Symphony on July 07, 2008, 08:30:07 am
Based on your reply, I can tell that this project is more based on how you "feel" rather than putting in hardwork to get the numbers right.  The easy route is to say "this feels better, animation is smoother, you are missing the boat here, SNK should have done it my way etc.."  The hard route which only a few follow is keeping true to the game, to try to get the "real feel" of the game by getting the numbers down. 

Looking at some of the feedback that was given here, I can see that getting accurate KOF data now is a lot more simpler than back in the days when I was still active.  I haven't even heard of some of the tools they are mentioning.

I guess it depends on your goal - are you aiming to create a MUGEN KOF game that has solid KOF gameplay with extended roster?  Or are you aiming to have a KOF game that fits your tastes (and a few others here that give you feedback)?.   Or maybe you want a KOF game that fits your tastes but has solid KOF gameplay?

Your project is still young and has lots of potential.  Just showing you your options.  Personally I would say that  you get the accuracy down FIRST, then move on with tweaking stuff to your liking (though if you tweak I still  :'(), but that's just silly old me.

Again good luck, sorry if I can't beta test / download cause the game is too big... if you can get some characters available for download maybe I can check em out.  Though it maybe months again before I post here :P, or not depending on how bored I am.



Well... it's already MUGEN. It's already NOT a KOF. I don't think accuracy is that big of a deal. The KOF games themselves change things between games. When MI came out, you had a totally different ball game with hit properties and priorities. Same with CVS. Same with KOF characters who come from other games and have different feels. Same with characters between SVC Chayous and NGBC.

Some games (guilty gear) have longer hit pauses than the average. Others have faster moves than the average. It all changes game to game. In my opinion, there is no "right" way as long as it's consistent and works good. I don't need Iori's cr. b to be EXACTLY like it was in KOF. I could always, you know.... go play KOF.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Dark Symphony on July 07, 2008, 08:38:19 am

Dark Symphony, I will have to disagree with you on one point.  I don't like luring people in with flash, coolness etc... because when they play it and find it hard/impossible to do moves they saw in the videos it's a big turn off.  I'm not big on say luring someone into SF2 cause they thought Zangief was so cool, but end up only using Ryu and Ken cause Zangief's too hard to use.  I want to encourage people to use Angel or Jhun cause they look cool, have cool moves and hey, you can do 'em.  The depth of any game I believe is how skillfully you use the moves at your disposal not how many stances you've got or how fancied up a move is with multiple follow ups.  Plus this is KOF, so you should readily be able to use 4 characters in the case of 4 on 4 team battle.  If you devote all your time to one or two, it makes that type of fight less interesting cause then the other 2 on your team become "fillers" instead of fights.  And can you imagine going through 4 fights like that with opponent using the same 4 over and over again.  That's a yawn for me.

I'm hoping actual testing with people who use combos systems in fights will tell me if my Chain systems are broken or energy sappers.  In this department, my skill is minimal so I'll be looking to others for help.  I don't think you're being hard.  If you see some past posts on the release forum, those were rough.  You're just offering your own fighting game experiences and that's always welcome.  I may take a breather after the 1/2 point to try my hands at something none KOFE related.  In cases like that collaboration is always good.

Thanks a bunch everyone.


I think you misunderstood. I'm not saying lure them in with flash and then give them a hard game. I'm saying leave things in for people who want depth and those who don't give them flash and cool. That's just the way it goes. If you see a feature that's too complex in your opinion, try to simplify it rather than remove it. People who get into your game are going to be looking for more challenging things as they get into it. They don't have to be HARD> They just have to be there.

Zangief's 360 is stupid. I hate 360's. My approach, however, would not be to remove it because it's hard or tricky. I'd simply simplify the motion. Now the players who base their game around getting in and getting the throw still can and newer players can practice application more than execution.

I'm just saying that little things like stances or sways can spice up a game a little bit and give someone something to diversify themselves with. You should also allow players to decide whether or not they want to take time to do things. Artificially encouraging them to learn X amount of characters with anything beyond the number of characters in their team is going outside the scope of what a developer should be doing.

Also don't forget that this is someone else's baby. You remove Jhun's stances and people will notice. To some, it'd be like removing Zangief's pile driver or Ryu's hadouken. I, myself, wonder if you are not for things like stances, why put a stance based character in the game?

Why not just make them simpler to use if you think they're too tricky?


When will you release Vanessa and Jhun, by the by?
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on July 07, 2008, 09:12:29 am
Missfairy's been pretty busy I guess.  She's only at 50% with Vanessa, so I haven't even sent her Jhun yet.  I may have missed this, but do you have the full game DS?

I understand where you're coming from.  I think the stance play style for me is off.  I don't like being forced to do one move in order to do the actual move I want to connect with.  Best marked under personal pref with a hint of balance.  We'll see if Jhun can cope with the loss.  Here, the leg slashes are instantaneous, but can be delayed for "mindgames", they give good projectile like range to his attack and can be comboed into.  His other sweep projectile works differently.  It can't be combo'ed into, but is a combo starter, it can banish fireballs and the delay in the hit is great for screwing up attacking and rolling opponents.  Just cause I remove something, doesn't mean I don't try to add something else.

Should note though that these "rules" and "programming choices" I follow are for KOFE only.  During my KOFE break, I'm planning to do a revamp of the psycho weapon Cammy that doesn't play like MVC on steroids and has a few less supers (ie more SFZ Cammy-ish).  That'll be a totally different philosophy cause I'll be focused on the character and not a game that demands balance (so she won't be playing like KOFE either).  Should be fun.  Still don't know what to do with her entirely yet, but I've already converted all the missing Cammy sprites in her SFF to the Delta form.  Cammy is my favorite gaming character ever, so when the time comes, hopefully I won't butcher her.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on July 07, 2008, 09:24:29 am
For all those people who tout 100% KOF accuracy, I would just like to show you this from the brand new KOF 98 UM:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=y_uUAo7XmDE (http://youtube.com/watch?v=y_uUAo7XmDE)

Now that's disgusting.  I'm all for accurate collisions, axises and vels, but there's no way I'd allow something like that massacre into my game willingly even if it's an official combo.  When I say balance, part of it includes trying to avoid stuff like this by removing cancels, pow damage, juggle you all day long values, even if it means toning down/butchering (depending how you look at it) some characters in the process.  There are more 100% combos on youtube, but this one didn't seem to need an awkward startup. 

Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Leon Belmont on July 07, 2008, 11:27:42 am
Make everything accurate, when an infinite comes around; get around it. That's it. Plus, you weren't going to have anything like MAX mode in this game anyway?

Characters don't need a huge tone down just because of something like that.

Vanessa had an infinite in XI, but that doesn't stop Kula, Gato or Oswald from wiping the floor with her.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: sander on July 07, 2008, 05:10:40 pm
"For all those people who tout 100% KOF accuracy" - wanted to stay off this topic but I couldn't resist the urge to reply - just so you get WHY people bug you for accuracy - last effort :P. 

Some facts:
- Infinites and other bugs have been found in almost every KOF release.
- SNK games are not perfect, yep not even KOF.
- Even if there are infinites, and even if some would say SNK suck, I believe that there is no MUGEN creator or MUGEN editor of existing works around here that can make a better "KOF game or character".
- Which goes back to me pleading that you still stick with the basics and good stuff and try and keep away from the imperfections.

"but there's no way I'd allow something like that massacre into my game willingly even if it's an official combo."

Releasing statements like this is bad, I'm sure SNK felt the same way about juggles/infinites, until some smart aleck cracks one or some lousy programmer lets one slip.  If you have the likes of K_Kusanag combo testing your character - guys that always seems to find some impossible juggles and pull them off - you will understand what I mean.


Edit:
After seeing the 98UM videos - I suggest you totally disregard that game o_O;  too many 100% combos there. >.<




Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on July 08, 2008, 03:55:52 am
Agreed, agreed.  That's kinda the idea here.  Staying away from the imperfections.  Just giving a little picture and having a bit of fun with it at the same time (couldn't resist after I saw those videos).  That's what I mean by 100%, cause then we're not really going for 100% when we start leaving stuff out right.

No need to put any effort in convincing me about other accuracies like axises, clsns and vels.  I've been sold since I started and will try my best to fix what I can.

Thing with SNK characters is that there's so many variations for some that it becomes hard to pick which, moves/version to go with at times.

I don't claim to be SNK and I love their stuff more than pretty much anything else out there, but sometimes, despite the fact that their SNK, I still find myself shaking my head at their choices.  See Krauser RBS vs Krauser '96.  Felt like RBS was the best feeling Krauser out there with moves that seemed to suit him very well.  Krauser '96 felt like a mockery, like SNK was turning him into a joke character.  I don't apologize for this comment as it's simply my opinion.  So given the choice, I'd much rather try to do a Krauser '96 with RBS moves than a Krauser '96 with '96 moves, despite inaccuracies that may come up.  That character may not meet SNK standards, but if even if another Mugen creator else made him and did a fantastic job of converting his '96 sprites to RBS, I'd be a very happy fan and in that case, would say that they made a better Krauser than the '96 version that's out there.  That's just me though.  And yes, I'm happy '98 UM Krauser has a lot more RBS style moves.  That said, I'd also say that there are some Mugen version of characters that I find just as fun to play as to play as, as their real counterparts, if not more.  In the end, having a good time playing the game is all that matters.  That's my take at least.

If Mugen could go online, I'd be far more sticky in terms of accuracies, because then my game could possibly be used competitively and that's when ever detail counts for sure.  And I use the term "my game" to differentiate between the KOFE characters and their original Mugen/official counterparts.  It's not meant to be disrespectful or to claim that I am the new SNK.  Not even close.  It's just to point out a game that uses play mechanics I've settled upon.  When you think about it, everything in KOFE is owned by SNK save the Mugen engine itself, and that's the way I like it. :)


Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Dark Symphony on July 08, 2008, 08:33:01 pm
I guess we differ. I am not bothered by having to do one move to do another. It's no different than any chain punch series with Kyo or Iorip's QCB+p series. Just more options. I always wanted to see a Jhun based around active stance changing (like how he could stance out of wk Mangetsuzan). I don't think blatant stance changing for the sake of it is the way to go. Imagine if he could do his conquest kick into a stance that gives him a quick high or slow low option. It's really not much different than Kyo doing a punch special into canned mixup only the Jhun player has a couple more options at the expense of canned payoffs.

I don't know. It's just me.


As far as that video link you made... you CAN'T do it. You just can't. Things like that aren't done on purpose. 98UM has so mnay 100%ers because they added so much with the characters and custom modes. You can only do so much playtesting. That's why there are so many SF2s and Guilty Gears and Tekken 5's. Because the player base is the harshest and most efficient play testers you'll ever get. And they WILL find things. Trust me. It will happen with your game to.

The smallest thing could end up being the biggest. Do you think the Terry extra mode infinite was intentional? Of course not. And how in the world would you find that while making a game? Would would think to go into Extra mode, do a power charge and then do a quick attack and cancel into thep ower charge to override the juggle check...

Vanessa's infinite in XI was simply possible because a move was used to hit in a way the devs never intended it too. The last tip of the hellion. The Devs made the move thinking' This "this will hit twice and the juggle checks will keep it from being comboed into infinitely." It took a player to set up the juggle infinte. That's why most infinites (outside SVC Chayous) have such weird  set ups. They're all about breaking the game open.

Luckily for you, you can just fix it. But you've already had to fix things. Imagine if you had to have it released by the end of this month and after that, no more fixes. Yipes!
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on July 09, 2008, 03:56:04 am
Well, hopefully as the project gains more steam, more people will test and find more glitches/give more gameplay feedback.  As [E] and I discussed earlier, the juggling system Mugen uses has some problems that may not be avoidable, but I'm sure there's plenty of other stuff to fix.

So far the project's been downloaded 1200.  Considering how big the file was, I'd say that's over double my highest expectations.

Got me thinking; once I've hit the 1/2 way mark, I might be interested in porting the project to Shugendo.  Has anyone here have any insight on this.  I haven't had a chance to test it yet, and my stupid Intel Video card is picky when it comes to programs requiring pixel shading, so I worry a bit.  Seems to be the only alternate engine still in progress with potential networking capabilities.  Is it too early?  Anybody willing to share their experiences with that system.  I'm also kinda skeptical cause I wouldn't want to port it and then it dies out like Infinitycat did (at least that's the assumption at the moment).

Yuri progresses slowly.  Since I'm ripping a good chunk of the sprites here, the progress is crawling.  I'd say I'm at about 35%.  Few basics to rip to go and a few sprites to convert (using her 2k1 intro for the non-leap in, but the shoes are the crappy ones).  Might try to convert a few 2k3 ones to '99, but that depends on how far my skills can go.  She *might* be finished next week.  Kyo will take even longer.  I may take a break and do Kula in between.  Re-conceptualized her movelist so I no longer need the Diana "kill" sprites.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Bastard Mami on July 09, 2008, 04:55:00 pm
Well, hopefully as the project gains more steam, more people will test and find more glitches/give more gameplay feedback.  As [E] and I discussed earlier, the juggling system Mugen uses has some problems that may not be avoidable, but I'm sure there's plenty of other stuff to fix.

Just do away with mugen's juggle system.

I will post more info later in kof style ground to air and juggling, probably including code.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on July 09, 2008, 05:52:46 pm
That would be most appreciated, o helpful one.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Bastard Mami on July 09, 2008, 07:16:38 pm
Ok, first you have to pay special attention to air recovery and whether it is allowed or not, if my memory serves me right you will use a fall.recover value of 6 ticks. All basic attacks allow for air recovery, all dir +button or special attacks don't; projectiles have to be handled case by case.

You will need to edit the air recovery states so they are automatic, no extra velocities are applyed and you don't recover control while in the air, in kof you won't recover control until you land, while air recovering you can be hit by anything, it's just a matter of juggling.

Juggling is a more complex matter, I will explain the basics first, note that this is not the exact way it works, as helpers in some kof versions create some exceptions, but I am pretty sure it aproximates it rather well.

To juggle someone in kof you have to launch him in the air; The amount of juggle points you get depends on two factors, the first one is which attack you used to launch the oponent and the second one is if you got a counter hit. The juggle points will decrease automatically one unit per tick and once they reach 0 most attacks can't juggle. Also, juggle wise, you have 3 types of attacks; attacks that require at least one juggle point to juggle (the majority), attacks that can't juggle (mostly the launchers) and attacks that will always juggle (normally just one per char, though there are chars that don't have those types of attacks and there are chars that have more than one).

The way i found to code this in mugen is the next.

1. Make all your attacks require 10 juggle points.

[Statedef 210]
Type          = S
MoveType      = A
Physics       = S
Ctrl          = 0
PowerAdd       = 0
Juggle        = 10
FaceP2          = 1
HitDefPersist       = 0
MoveHitPersist       = 0
HitCountPersist    = 0
SprPriority       = 2


2. In your cns file give your character only 8 juggle points.

;_________________________________________________ __
;
[Data]
;_________________________________________________ __

Life          = 1000
Power          = 3000
Attack          = 90
Defence       = 80
Fall.Defence_Up    = 0
Liedown.Time       = 10
AirJuggle       = 8
SparkNo       = 0,7
Guard.SparkNo       = 0,20
KO.Echo       = 0
Volume          = 0
IntPersistIndex    = 0
FloatPersistIndex    = 0

a) what you have achieved now is that your character can juggle properly if p3 launches p2, but he won't be able to juggle at all if he launches p2, no problem, there is more to this code, but first.
* mugen has a bug in which you can't even do ground combos if you don't have juggle points, so you want to put in st-2 an assertspecial with nojugglecheck if enemynear, statetype !=A; to allow for regular ground combos.


;_________________________________________________ __
;
;to allow ground combos

[State -2, ground combos]
type       = AssertSpecial
triggerall    = NumTarget
trigger1    = Target,StateType != A
flag          = NoJuggleCheck



3. make sure to have  section of the cns for st-2 and juggling system, as you can put most of the juggle code in there to make it easier to edit amongst several characters.

4 After we have taken care of the bug we reserve a var to act as the juggle points , in this case var16, since kof always counts down on the juggle points as long as you have some, we decrease one unit per tick.

;_________________________________________________ __
;
;    Kof Style Juggle System
;_________________________________________________ __

[State -2, juggle decreasing]
type = varSet
trigger1 = var(16)>0
var(16) = var(16)-1
ignorehitpause = 0

5. Now, we have to set the juggle points depending on which attack is hitting the oponent and counter conditions, I suggest to use several sctrls instead of trying to optimize and make the code hard to read, Though using a simple ifelse expression for counter hit checking should be pretty easy to understand, my counter hit check var is var(15), if it is 1 I got a counter hit.

;_________________________________________________ __

[State -2, juggle set basics]
type       = varSet
triggerall    = movehit = 1
trigger1    = stateno = [200,999]
var(16)       = ifelse(var(15) = 1,6,0)

Basic attacks normally do not let you juggle afterwards, but if you get a counter hit you are allowed to juggle for about 6 ticks.


[State -2, juggle set CD]
type       = varSet
triggerall    = movehit = 1
trigger1    = stateno = 1350
trigger2    = stateno = 1360
var(16) = ifelse(var(15) = 1,60,0)

In this case I check for both standing and jumping CD, since both give you the same juggling points, no juggle if you hit normally, and a second if you get a counter hit (actually the 60 ticks value here is wrong, you can either try to count ticks in the game or play around with the value until you get the proper feeling/value)


[State -2, juggle set powercharge98 ]
type = varSet
triggerall = movehit = 1
trigger1 = stateno = 4300
trigger2 = stateno = 4310
var(16) = ifelse(var(15) = 1,120,12)

This is a very interesting case, pretty similar to the B shikikai case, in kof98 terry's power charge can only be followed up by a jumping attack or a cancelled raising tackle, but if you get a counter hit you can even do a ground attack or power geyser as a follow up (again, play with the actual values to get a proper feeling).

[State -2, juggle set powercharge97 ]
type = varSet
triggerall = movehit = 1
trigger1 = stateno = 4400
trigger2 = stateno = 4410
var(16) = 120

And this is a simple launcher case, like kyo's D shikikai you can always juggle with pretty much everything after this move hits, regardless of getting a counter or not.

Note that it does not matter if the juggle var last until-after the p2 hits the ground, after all it will be reset once you launch p2 again.

6. Now that we have set our juggle points properly, we just need to add the juggle checks, depending on the attack being used we have three categories so this is just a list.

;_________________________________________________ __
;
;juggle checking rutine, there is some stuff that never juggles

;_________________________________________________ __
;
;to allow ground combos

[State -2, ground combos]
type       = AssertSpecial
triggerall    = NumTarget
trigger1    = Target,StateType != A
flag          = NoJuggleCheck

See the note in point 2a.


[State -2, juggle checking regular stuff]
type       = AssertSpecial
triggerall    = var(16) > 0
trigger1    = stateno = [200,999]
trigger2    = stateno = 1350
trigger3    = stateno = 1360
flag          = NoJuggleCheck

This is a list that includes pretty much most attacks.

[State -2, juggle checking always juggle]
type       = AssertSpecial
trigger1    = stateno = 1500
flag          = NoJuggleCheck

1500 would be a move that always juggle, somethignlike oswald or kula's ldms in kof xi, beni's sdm in kof2001, mary rpd follow up in kof 97 amongst other stuff.

stuff that never juggles is simply off the list.


7. About projectiles. I suggest using helper projectiles, so you can add code to them. in the juggle check code you can use helper(X), redirection to set the juggle points and in the helper's code add parent,var(16) > 0 triggers to allow juggling. I am skipping coding that step explicitly because that is rather simple if you understand the previous code and should be seen as an exercise.

I hope I did not forget anything.

This code is provided to be free of use and I take no legal responsability of what is done with it; if you manage to kill yourself using this code I am not to be held responsible.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on July 10, 2008, 07:05:39 pm
Thanks again [E], really appriciate all the contributions you've put in to this project.  Think I'll be bumping you up in credits.  The code makes sense to me.  I think what I'll do is finish Yuri as is and implement this juggle system with Kula for the test drive.  I'm pretty sure it'll mesch better, so after that I'll work backwards, implementing it with the chains system.

I think I'll still leave the projectiles as no juggle limit, because I don't forsee it leading to infinites and it's good tack on damage.  If I'm proven wrong, then I'll change it.  Only moves like Thunder Rain have projectile juggle caps at the moment.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Bastard Mami on July 10, 2008, 08:29:35 pm
hahaha, limit them now as it will be pretty easy to be proven wrong for that :P
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Leon Belmont on July 11, 2008, 07:34:25 am
I don't have much to do with this project, but just dropping my thanks to [E] because that stuff comes in handy for me. :)
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on July 12, 2008, 04:27:18 pm
Always great to thank [E] for his many contributions!

Okay, so after going through the list of this I need to do for this project, I realized that I have only one sprite edit outside of my capabilities left to go (with KOF 98 UM having the rest).  Big thanks to [E] for the rest.  It's for the Robert '03 stance conversion to '99 sprites.  I did request help from Walt on this and while he did agree that he was capable of doing the edit, he did not specifically commit to doing it.  I can understand seeing how Walt gets many requests and isn't always in spriting mode.  So just seeing if anyone else'd like to bite and put the last non-technical request for this project to rest, I'm reposting the request.

I've done what's within my capabilities here:

(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj119/swipergod/rob-1.gif)

The work that's still required is the addition of the vest and pendant, the change in his collar (from v-neck to round), the removal of his arm strap thing and his belt (shirt's tucked in).  Here are some samples of how SNK did it to give an idea of how to proceed:

(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj119/swipergod/rob2.gif)

I'd appreciate any help here.  Even if you're just capable of removing the arm straps or fixing the collar.

Missfairy is trying to work on AIs, but has found herself a little caught up in other things.  So after I finish Yuri, I'll stop, do the AIs for Vanessa, Yuri and Jhun and then release them right after.  Don't expect much though, as I'm definitely not a skilled AI coder.  So far, Kim, Karate and Angel are the only AI I've put together (using Missfairy's template).  Although Missfairy helped with Kim and Karate.  I'm going to post a revised "to do" list, but I've gotta be honest,  doing all these characters' coding is really burning me out so I may not be able to implement everything for the next release.  Right now, the chain system is the priority because it's already been implemented in some characters.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Dark Symphony on July 12, 2008, 05:23:00 pm
Why not just release the characters without AIs initially so we can test how they play? You can always add AI later with the benefit of having some feedback to work with.

Hey, it'd give you a break.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on July 12, 2008, 06:21:59 pm
That seems a little dangerous to me, because the character outside of training mode would be full of glitches.  For example, currently Jhun's Cresent Moon Kick goes through floors and teleports when the AI does it, because it can currently interrupt any air attack into it.  This is not a human controlled problem, but without a character specific AI you can't really fight against them in Arcarde mode or any other mode for that matter because their triggers are bogus.  I don't want to release a character that's for human vs human play only.  It shouldn't take too long.  Angel's AI took me about 4 hours to program, but I'd really like to finish Yuri before I go on a AI spree.

If I end up doing the AI, it will just serve as filler for now until there's more time to revisit and tweak it.  Several AI codes really need to be fixed as is anyway (Kim being the predominant one here).  The main things I've noticed with the AI that needs to be fixed:

Some characters throw unlimited projectiles.  I need to block this in the projectile's triggerall with a projnum blocker.
As [E] pointed out characters should not be able to attack while in state 5040.  Humans can't, but the computer can.
[E] also pointed out that the computer can grab you out of a block or hitstate.  Humans cannot. 

Yuri's tentative for a next weekend finish.  So all 3 should be good to go around Monday or Tuesday after that.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Dark Symphony on July 12, 2008, 08:54:47 pm
I guess...

I think i'm the only MUGENer who programs with human comp in mind. Humans are the ones who do the gamebreaking things with characters, not AI. AI doesn't use Magneto infinites or that Kyo 100%er you were so worried about.

I spend most of my MUGEN time in practice mode testing things out. I don't know... to me, "good AI" comes WAY after making sure the character basics are in order.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on July 13, 2008, 02:25:09 am
Human players are first and foremost and from other projects I've read a few others share that mentality, but as many people pointed out, not everyone has a gaming buddy to sit down and play with.  I'm all alone up here in Ottawa, for example, so the only way I can test out my characters in actual combat is via AI.  Plus I don't like releasing add ons to my project unless they've met a standard.  Right now all other characters have AI, so to make an official release for a character without AI wouldn't meet my standard.  Seems you're pretty eager to test out Vanessa and Jhun though.  I'll PM you.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Dark Symphony on July 13, 2008, 10:08:08 pm
Word. I just respect your undertaking. I could tell that you're in the same boat as many MUGENers (including myself) where there isn't much to do with MUGEN OUTSIE of fighting the AI. So I get that sentiment. In my experiences, a good solid character comes from a good solid base that a player can work with.

I'm working on a game outside MUGEN. We're trying to introduce a lot of new elements and features and some of them are pretty risky. We can't design AI around any of them because if some of our ideas end up being trash, we'd have to change the AI's approach.

To be specific, it's a tag game. AI programming for Tag games is always tricky if you have any sort of health regain option because, in every tag game i've played that didn't have that stupid "lose one character and lose the game" approach, I could usually beat the computer simply through better tag management, giving myself almost a 50% health advantage since I could actively make sure I was regenning when I needed to. We're considering some features that let you tag out without losing 'red health' for a period of 5 or 6 seconds. This allows for tag combos to occur without sacrificing life. We'll be designing AI to try to take advantage of this. But we don't want to do it and then have a human find an exploit that makes it broken and thus removed. You see?

I would simply consider finding a few close sources (maybe [E]?) and letting them test the foundations of your characters before adding the AI. To smooth out some snares a little bit. Just some quick once overs can do wonders.

This coming from a developers perspective.

I am just a big fan of any MUGEN project that has any sort of consistency between characters, which is why I have an eye on yours and all the promise it has.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on July 14, 2008, 12:37:45 am
Thank you for such kind words DS.  I can attest that this project is a definite undertaking and a test of will.  Without a team, it's really hard to put something of decent quality out there.

Just imagine if there was a spriter, a coder for basics, a coder for specials, an AI coder, a balance checker, a collisionist, etc...  The quality of the game would go up 10 fold (barring incompetence of course).  When you're on your own it's tougher, because maybe you screwed up a couple of specials, which caused you to overlook some basics.  Plus you're keeping track of multiple characters at once, so giving character x move a may screw over character b (SF2 E.Honda vs Balrog syndrome).  I can't even count how many times I've gone back to the original 12 to change one thing or another.

I at least enjoy the fact that Mugen allows you to select 1vs 1 and KOF team style and encourage people to use those modes when playing the game.  Simul is a blast, but there's a lot of game breaking issues that happen in that mode that are pretty unavoidable.  I do like how one well placed HSDM can still win you the match despite the handicap odds though.  I did consider implementing a VS series tag in mode, but Zillion uses a KOF tag in system and I'm trying to be an alternative to Zillion. 

I wish you luck on your AI endeavor.  You undertaking sounds massive. 

I add the AI currently because I like to have placeholders and Missfairy's template is the base template for the game.  AI programming is a weakness I have, so in the end, it's doubtful my AI will be that good without Missfairy's help no matter how much time I wait.  I'm mainly a conceptualizer who knows how to or learns how to implement his stuff.  Thankfully computer code is logic based else this project may not have ever gotten off the ground.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on July 19, 2008, 06:03:28 pm
My work has become sparse on KOFE this past week and things aren't going to get better anytime soon.  My job is becoming really demanding and is interfering with all my personal projects.  Since Jhun and Vanessa were finished awhile ago, I figured I throw a generic AI together and release them in the meantime.  The release topic is here:

http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=83613.0 (http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=83613.0)

I'm still hoping to complete Yuri by the end of the month, but I just can't guarantee it at this point.  Do NOT take this as "the project is dead" or "the project's in limbo" etc...  I'll still be around here and there, but my Mugen time has been severely limited, so I just won't be able to hammer out the updates and edits like I used to.  At least for the next month or 2 anyway.  With K.O.D's slew of characters and Sander's return, there should be plenty of KOF action to keep you all happy regardless.

Cheers.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on July 27, 2008, 04:44:09 am
Wow.  I've ripped so many sprites my head's all dizzy.  Anyway, Yuri is about 75% done now.  I'm just finishing up the reflect then I'm on to DMs.  I'm shooting for a Wednesday release.  I'm hoping to release her together with an updated Ryo.  He'll share a special intro with Yuri and some of the changes implemented to the more recent characters (less invulnerability when dodging, the chain systems, etc...)

Off topic, since Mugenchina's KOF XI spritepacks have disappeared, I was wondering if anyone has Duck King's and Eiji's kicking about?  If you do, I'm willing to give credit to you if you're willing to share.  I have the rest of the packs I need from XI.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Dark Symphony on July 27, 2008, 05:37:09 pm
Blah! No point in sending you my tidbits on Jhun and Vanessa since you've released these new version. I'll give them a go and delete any tidbits that may not apply anymore.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on July 27, 2008, 11:05:47 pm
Well, I still haven't done anything retrospectively (fixing the original 16), so I still await any tidbits that may apply.  Probably won't go back until I've finished Mr. Big.  So there's still time for more comments and feedback.  I've done a bit of sprite editing for Yuri's Shin.  I should also finish the kicking DM today.  Can any well versed programmers explain or point me to a topic that explains how to rip sprites or spritepacks from PS2 KOF games (like XI and UM) so I can do it myself and not have to rely on others?  I have XI so if there's a way to grab some stuff off there, that'd be great.

Thanks and stay tuned.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on July 29, 2008, 01:54:08 pm
Yuri's pretty much complete except for her AI and chain system.  She and the updated Ryo should still be on schedule for tomorrow.  I'll try to post the video and a few pics later this evening.

***UPDATE***

Here's the youtube video: http://youtube.com/watch?v=2La1zV7W91Y (http://youtube.com/watch?v=2La1zV7W91Y)

And, for the first time ever, a few pics.  In case you missed me mentioning it before, I used Yuri '99 sprites, but I did edit a few XI ones so I could use them (Reflect looks better in XI for example).  Big thanks to [E] for telling me how to take screenshots.  Simple stuff I just overlooked.

Yuri's special Intro with Ryo:
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj119/swipergod/yuri2.jpg)

Yuri Shin Chou Upper sprite edit by me.  Just changed her face so the eyes and mouth weren't so big.
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj119/swipergod/yuri3.jpg)

Yuri doing her Denji style Shokoken.  I've changed the sprite because I thought the real version looked weak.
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj119/swipergod/yuri4.jpg)

Hopefully she'll be release tomorrow.  Stay tuned.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on August 01, 2008, 03:02:56 am
Yuri's been released here.

http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=84330.0 (http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=84330.0)

I'll post more later.

Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Vans on August 02, 2008, 02:55:22 am
Seems like you've been working and learning a lot. :P

Feel free to use or check my works for reference. (My Eiji's pretty complete and has accurate alignment to boot, so that might help you there.)

Good luck.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: walt on August 02, 2008, 03:02:00 am
 :beamgoi:
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on August 04, 2008, 07:23:21 am
Thanks guys and thanks [Jimmy], I'll definitely check some more of your stuff out. :)  Once I've fixed Terry, I'll move on to Mr. Big.  I'm using CCI's, so things shouldn't take too long.  I'll keep you all posted.  Feel free to leave more feedback as it comes and thanks again.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on August 16, 2008, 04:08:20 pm
Sorry for the long lack of updates.  Trying to clean up some non-Mugen business.  My laptop also no longer has a functioning battery, which becomes a pain for coding from time to time (whoops, you tripped over my plug and now I've lost everything).

I've updated Terry to make him compatible with Yuri's throws.  As I was doing some last minute testing I noticed that Yuri and Ryo's chaining systems weren't working properly, so I went in and fixed those as well.  I'm re-releasing the Yuri package with Terry and the updates on the original topic later today, so I'd suggest deleting your old Ryo, Terry and Yuri and downloading this new package.  Sorry, if I knew how to program a patch this would be a lot easier I guess.

I've also noted a glitch with Vanessa's close up DM in Simul mode.  I corrected the binding, but you'll have to wait until the next big release for the updated Vanessa.  I've also done minor fixes to Joe's Hurricane HSDM, expanding the clsn box for an extra hit if you catch someone up close, and as a result a little more damage.  Another fix I've done is increased the recovery time on Geese's Reppukens.  Just a few ticks to even out the balance.

Once Mr. Big is complete, I'm going to finish touching up the remaining 14 characters, giving them chaining systems, reducing the invincibility of dodges, changing the close attack distance limit, fixing binding issues with special grabs and adding CCI's electric effects to all electric attacks.  Then I will do another big release.  So now's the time if you see any other glitches within the characters, to bring them to my attention.  There are some other changes that'll happen later on.  [E] has given me a new juggling system to try out and implement, but I don't have the time currently to revise all the special moves needed for this change.  A few other to do's will also miss the boat for now.

I don't think I can get the new version of KOFE out before the end of the month, but early Sept is definitely a possibility.  Mugenchina says the KOF 98 UM character sprites are coming, so hopefully they'll be around when this project finally hits the 1/2 way point.  Thanks to everyone for bearing with me and I'll try to get back on this as quickly as I can.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on August 18, 2008, 02:23:00 am
After playing through a bit more, I noticed that Rugal a mid x,y glitch, Terry had a sprite glitch and Iori had a sprite glitch.  I've corrected those.  I've also finished Mr. Big's stage and music edit.  I'll hopefully start on him sometimes this week.  I talked to Missfairy a few weeks ago and she said she might be able to do the AI for him, so we'll see what develops.  Cheers.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on August 24, 2008, 06:55:46 pm
Found another couple of glitches.  Mr. Big's at about 40%.  I'm currently editing his overhead sprites from XI (they aren't shaded the same as in 96).  This isn't my strong suit so it's gonna take me a bit to get it right.  Once they're finished I should be able to cruise to the DMs.  Gonna push his release back another week.  Once he's finished, I'll go back and finish upgrading the other characters and re-release KOFE and re-release each character individually as well, so if you already have the system, you can just download the updated characters.  More as it comes.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on August 31, 2008, 02:35:40 am
Alright, so I'm just finishing up Mr. Big's DMs now.  Once that's done, his chain system should be easy since he's not going to be much of a chainer.  Then I have to do his AI and he should be good.  Hoping by Wednesday the lastest.  Once the DMs are done, I'll grab a few screenshots.

For those interested, I've given him an overhead (from XI minus the first hit) and his Jumping SK animation from XI as well.  I made his Viva throw a special move since it never felt like much of a DM and his spinning lancer attack (spinning clothesline type move) doesn't reflect fireballs, but does go through all of them.  I did this because his SP version of California Romance has autoguard during the run portion of the move now (like in XI) and I think that's already plenty of leverage.  I've also fix his stage ('96 boatride from Dustplace) so it scrolls correctly and characters bob up and down with the boat.

Another major development is that I'm removing Duck King from the list and adding Adel instead.  He'll take Duck's place on the Hero Team.  I was conceptualizing Adel and realized that I can translate him into KOFE character despite the massive lack of animations.

Once Big is finished, I'll revamp the remaining roster and fix a few more compatibility glitches and re-release KOFE.  I will include new Electric effects to the fightfx.sff & def and try to figure out a better way of making it download friendly.

Here's what I'd like to get done by the end of the year:

Revamp
Kula
Kyo
Benimaru
Maxima

Here's icing on the cake:

Kasumi UM air slash added to KOFE Kasumi
Athena
Kensou
Goenitz
Adel

There it is.  Expect a Mr. Big update soon.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on August 31, 2008, 06:53:12 pm
Alright, I've got some pictures.  Still have another DM to do, so the video will be coming later.

Don't worry, cause I'm using CCI's Big as the template, Mr. Big's still got his hoes:
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj119/swipergod/big4.jpg)

Viva!  Albeit, a somewhat queer Viva...
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj119/swipergod/big3.jpg)

Mr. Big's overhead.  Since KOF Zillion already had this animation, I traced the correct shading to save quality and time:
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj119/swipergod/big2.jpg)

Mr. Big's new HSDM.  I'm thinking of naming it "Starduster":
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj119/swipergod/big1.jpg)

Stay tuned for more.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on September 01, 2008, 07:15:29 pm
Finished the DMs.  Video's up now here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KNTo2DY9UU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KNTo2DY9UU)

Feel free to comment.  I'll post again when I release Mr. Big's.  Just have to do the AI and chaining system.  20 down and 28 to go. 
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Bastard Mami on September 01, 2008, 07:27:38 pm
Will hte next big update include the rolling and juggling fixes ?
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on September 02, 2008, 12:26:56 am
The rolling fixes will be implemented.  Much more fair now with the 6 tick lag now.  The juggle fixes require a lot more time because I'd have to go into each individual move and implement your juggle fixes depending on what the move does according to your directions.  It's just been hard for me lately to find free time.  I will have to go back and revisit characters for yaccel correction and adding the leg and arm snap animations for Blue Mary's attacks so I should be able to do more fixes then.

Currently the revamp will include:

Rolling fixes
Electric spark adds to electric attacks
Glitch fixes for characters I've caught so far
Plus most of the stuff I struck out on the old list a couple pages back (removing Angel's infinity for example)
Implementation of the chain system
Changing the distance that close attack activate

Little things to make the gameplay more solid.

Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Bastard Mami on September 02, 2008, 05:08:08 pm
The changes done to individual attacks are just changing the juggle points to 10, most of the work goes in st-2 and analyzing the character's moves. that ebing said, it is indeed a lot of work.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on September 06, 2008, 05:55:09 pm
No worries.  I'll get to it eventually. :)

I've released Mr. Big here:

http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=86351.0 (http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=86351.0)

That bring me up to 20.  I will finish updating the remaining characters and re-release the game in about two weeks.  If you've caught any more glitches let me know. 

I'm also switching the next 2 waves' order a bit because I really want to do Adel next.  So I'm pushing Kyo and Kula to wave 5 and bringing Athena and Adel into wave 4.  Adel's next after the fixes.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on September 11, 2008, 02:54:59 am
So I'm 50% done the character upgrades (10 more to go).  Really happy with some of the possibilities in here with the chains (even though I don't use them that much).  Example chain combo:  Iori:  Jumping cross up kick -> ducking wp -> close wp -> Unique chain (f +wp) -> Maiden Masher.  Unfortunately I personally lack the skill for this combo, so a video won't be coming, but I've successfully pulled off this combo after 50 attempts, so I know it's doable.  Other characters have other interesting possibilities too.

I've also fixed the Dizzy/No sexy KO glitch that Ryo and Yuri had with their HSDMs and I've implemented the electric hit effects.  I think what I'll do though is do Kyo after I've updated everyone so that the next big release has KOF's main character.  The tradeoff is that I won't be able to draw the black sun on his back in time for the release (time is limited still).  I will, but in the meantime, at least you'll be able to use some form of Kyo.

The rest of the wave will be Adel, Maxima and Athena.  Benimaru, Goentiz, Kula and Kensou will follow.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on September 14, 2008, 05:52:59 am
I've taken a breather from revamping to start Kyo.  He's at about 20%.  I have to be honest, it's pretty tough for me to go back and add new things to old characters.  I get into tackling a new character more.  I'll probably finish Kyo before finishing the other 10 characters, but he won't be released until KOFE v1.3 is released.  I'll keep you posted.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Omega on September 14, 2008, 11:27:04 am
İ know what you mean with adding new stuff to old Characters. İ still have 3 un-updated Characters waiting. The updates and involved Characters to the game is awesome. İ like it alot and for sure.

This might be a early quesiton to ask but what type of music will you add? Did i miss something?

Keep up the awesomeness going on man. :)   
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: titytity on September 14, 2008, 11:39:46 am
sorry, but i cant download from filefront.com, because filefront baned Ip from Vietnam,  :-X
Can you reupload to mediafire.com or 4shared.com?
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on September 14, 2008, 11:07:45 pm
Glad you like what you see so far DJ Track.  I'm trying to make this an all SNK game.  The stages are all from SNK games and the music is all from AST of SNK games (mostly KOF, but there's a few exceptions).  For Kyo, he'll have the '98 Esaka theme that I've edited to extend the length (like I did with Rugal's).

titytity, hopefully you can hold out a bit longer until the next big release (end of the month I'm thinking).  There's too many changes now (v1.3) which makes downloading the old version (v1.2) useless.  I've got to find a good site to upload this to and a good way of splitting the files so it's manageable.  I'll check out the sites you mentioned.  Hopefully they work well.

Kyo's progressing well.  All the basics are done.  A few special intros, special moves, DMs and AI are all that are left.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on September 19, 2008, 01:47:39 am
Well I don't know what the $#@! happened.  Never in my coding has this happened.  I was at 80% with Kyo, just had to add DMs.  I go to do some more work on him today and everything is wiped in his cns files.  Gone.  His air, gone.  His sound file, corrupted.  Only his sff survived.  A whole week's work gone.  I spent hours testing out the right velocities.  What a piece of %#$@ing garbage.  Needless to say, this pushes me back a week at least.  I'm just pissed.  I don't want to do anything right now.  Maybe on the weekend I'll start him up again.  Zzzasd's Kyo is so messed up, it took me such a long time to fix.  Just bullshit.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: rzx150 on September 21, 2008, 03:55:39 pm
Hey, I'm havin trouble downloading your game from filefront. would it be possible if sum1 uploaded it to sumwhere else? (like filecloud?) if so, thanks in advance, and keep up the good work :)
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on September 21, 2008, 04:42:51 pm
I'm sorry about the trouble rzx150.  I'm really disappointed people had so much trouble downloading it last time.  I'm working on getting a web page just to upload the updated version of the game.  Give me another week or 2 to finish the current build and to throw it up.  I'll PM you to let you know when it's ready.

The plan is to have:
A characters only download
A stages only download
A sound only download
A system only download
An all in one download

Just need to find somewhere that'll let me set up the website.  It won't be anything fancy.  Just a page with all the download links.

I pretty much hardcored it the last 3 days and Kyo is at 90%.  Just an SDM, HSDM and AI left to go.  He's a blend of 98-2000.  Also included with Kyo is a revised version of Fyro's KOF'97 Japan stage.  The background now lights up correctly (although not 100% game accurately cause that'd be 80+ frames of animation to rip) and scrolls up correctly.  Don't think you can find a KOF'97 Japan stage out there right now like it.  I won't be releasing it on it's own though since the SVC stage I released didn't get downloaded that much.  Only for KOFE.

Anyway, expect pictures of Kyo soon.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: rzx150 on September 21, 2008, 05:18:37 pm
OK. thanks for the heads up :)
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on September 22, 2008, 12:06:00 am
No problem.  ;D

Edit: Youtube vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUph86pS4kk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUph86pS4kk)

Kyo just requires his AI now.  I'll post a video soon.  Keep in mind that Kyo will be released with the KOFE update and not before mainly because he has 4 special intros currently (not counting Benimaru's) and it'd be a bit of a bother to repackage him with those 4 updated characters.  Here's some pics for now:

Kyo's special intro with K'
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj119/swipergod/kyo0.jpg)

Kyo's 2000 hcb +sk move now works like a counter in the first frames of animation.
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj119/swipergod/kyo2.jpg)

The move Mugen Kyos are always missing.  His hcb +sk from 99.
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj119/swipergod/kyo4.jpg)

By default, Kyo's HSDM.  Only the first 5 hits made the cut.
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj119/swipergod/kyo7.jpg)

Feels really good to have Kyo finished.  KOF's poster boy always had me a little worried, but he feels really solid.  He sacrifices some speed for pure power.  A new counter type that he, Xiangfei and Gato will be using debuts with him.  He's got his dragon punch, hoping punch, red kick and flame punch combinations.  Hopefully I can finish the rest of the original characters so I can release him and the update soon.  Cheers.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Bastard Mami on September 22, 2008, 04:18:06 pm
Any plans to add the new system stuff from kofxii ?
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on September 22, 2008, 08:43:24 pm
Haven't heard about the KOF XII stuff.  Just saw the original trailer vid with Benimaru and Athena.  I'm curious.  There a thread about it or a good place to check out the info?
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: Bastard Mami on September 22, 2008, 10:47:26 pm
I reccomend the thread at the mmcafe, though the thread in this forum is also pretty decent.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: superyuzqy on September 23, 2008, 09:26:52 am
good kyo ;)
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on September 24, 2008, 02:01:41 am
Thank you superyuzqy.  I'm really proud of him. 

Unfortunately I've run into another problem.  In addition to the Robert stance sprite edit I need, I just realized that Rock doesn't have the Blue Mary leg and arm snap animations (6 in total).  Since that's another bunch of drawing I'm incapable of doing, that may push Blue Mary all the way back to the final release.  If there's a spriter out there willing to help make those six sprites, it'd be very much appreciated.

Update-wise, I've got 8 characters left to update.  I'm also hoping to fix the throw/block and attack out of state 5040 AI glitches that the computer seems to be abusing.  All in all, I'm hoping for a Sunday release provided I can set up a website.  Anybody know a good freeweb type site with about 500 megs limit?
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition (A Little Mugen Project)
Post by: swipergod on September 27, 2008, 11:13:36 pm
I'll be finishing up the remaining updates today.  Tomorrow I'll work on the AI fixes and the bind errors (the ones that I can remember).  I still don't know a good place to set up a domain for downloading and I'm definitely not gonna use these file storage sites (after the last horrible experience).  Bear with me while I search the web for something suitable.  So the release gets pushed back a couple of days.

Once everything's done, and the update is release, I'll start on Athena.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on September 28, 2008, 05:31:38 pm
Alright.  All characters are updated.  I'm fixing the AI bugs.  I'll have to test quickly to see if they fix.  I think the combo system works pretty well.  I don't have the mad skills to pull them off in a real fight (remembering multiple motions in a quick couple of seconds makes me dizzy), but they worked in training mode.  Those who can do them will reap some nice rewards.  I'm adding Kyo and a combo section to the PDF.  Once that's all done, I'll look into a website.  I'm thinking geocities.  Nothing fancy, just somewhere to post a few download links.  Stay tuned.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Bastard Mami on September 29, 2008, 12:03:07 am
use uploadjockey to upload the game's files.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on September 29, 2008, 03:46:17 am
Websites are a bust unless I'm looking to spend some cash.  I tried Uploadjockey [E], but it limits me to files 100mb and under.  I'm trying badongo right now.  Hopefully this site doesn't suck as much as the last.  There will be 6 downloads in total.  The complete game at 281 Megs, and the game split up like so:

System and Stages - 26 Megs
Characters pt1 - 47 Megs
Characters pt2 - 46 Megs
Sound pt1 - 92 Megs
Sound pt2 - 80 Megs

If this site sucks, warn me now.  I've uploaded the system and am currently uploading some sound folders.  I'll upload the whole game and the characters tomorrow.  I'll post the links once I have them.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on September 30, 2008, 01:48:57 am
The KOFE update including Kyo is up.  Go here: http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=87440.0 (http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=87440.0)

Hopefully it'll generate some feedback/comments like the last one did.  There's still a few binding issues and I can't seem to stop characters from attacking once their state 5040 animation reaches -1.  I'll start Athena soon.  Very tired and can't think of anything more to say for now.  Enjoy!
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: weakinall on September 30, 2008, 07:48:38 am
 since you change the download site to badongo.
It is too hard to download for us chinese except hongkong and taiwan.
so can you present another download link, such as filefront and so on?

thanks

I like your game very much.

 ;D
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on September 30, 2008, 11:50:50 pm
Okay, I uploaded the full version to filefront.  It's a large 289 meg file though, so I suggest you leave the computer on for a bit without doing other stuff on it, keep your brower open only to filefront (no other windows or tabs) and make sure your computer doesn't put itself to sleep.  I posted the filefront link in the release topic above.


Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: weakinall on October 01, 2008, 12:59:03 am
Thanks
At least , I finally can download it now.
no matter how slow the speed is.

 ::)
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: niwaniwa on October 02, 2008, 04:42:27 am
nice game. didnt work right until i realized that you had your own seperate game for the characters

love the sexy kos. except vanessa is noticibly.. smaller during hers.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on October 03, 2008, 05:16:44 am
Thanks.  Yeah, Vanessa's sexy ko comes from her pre-XI days.  She got a lot "bigger" in that game.  I'm planing to upload to uploadjockey over the weekend to make it more accessible for others.  Don't forget to download both character packs and the stage and system pack.  I'm currently starting on Athena and doing some work on Krauser.  I won't be able to complete Krauser since I'm awaiting his UM sprites, but I'll post a separate topic about that later.  That's all for now.  Hope everyone's enjoying the game.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: ^^ on October 04, 2008, 03:41:43 am
you can use jin's krauser sprites, it is open source  ;)
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on October 04, 2008, 01:57:33 pm
Wow this is fantastic!  Thanks Kenshiro-Sama!  Anyone who hasn't downloaded Jin's Krauser should. It's great to use Krauser that feels complete!  I'll still need a spritepack whenever it comes out since I'll still need Krauser's arm and leg snaps for Blue Mary though.  Since Krauser is my favorite character, I'll be rushing to complete him with Athena simultaniously (I've already started sprite editing [E] sexy KO for her).  In the spirit of KOF in general, I'm using Athena EX as the base for KOFE since it's a "new" costume for a new game (even though it's been around the KOFE community forever).  Also Krauser will be getting a new Mozart Requiem piece as his theme for KOFE.  I see no point in releasing Benimaru alone, so I'll complete him after finishing those 2 and release all three together along with Kyo (since right now he's only available via the larger character pack).  This will complete the 1/2 way point of the game. :)
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on October 07, 2008, 03:11:10 am
I've posted uploadjockey links on the release topic.  While I haven't tried it out myself, [E] says it make life easier because it lets you choose a mirror to download from (megaupload, filefront, badongo, etc).  When [E] speaks, I listen.  Hopefully this will facilitate things for overseas players.  :sugoi:

I'm working away on Krauser.  He's at about 70% and should be done by the end of the week.  Athena will resume after he's completed (just have too much Krauser love).  So I'll be releasing Krauser all on his own.  I'll post a pic or 2 in a little bit.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on October 11, 2008, 05:34:45 pm
What a crazy week.  Krauser's 95%.  Just have to do his combo stuff and his AI.  I'll post again to add pictures and the video link, but I won't be able to make the vid until later in the evening.  Krauser plays more like his Real Bout self, which is what I wanted since that's my preferred version of Krauser.  He loses his drop kick and suplex, but gains a qcf x3 and punch attack inspired from the Real Bout combo that ended in a multi-punch.  It's hard to say how boss like he is or how fair the cheapness factor is at the moment.  His HSDM (the wave) is unblockable, but is hard to time since it doesn't come right out after the super pause.  To compensate for the loss of the dropkick (although it's a finish to the sp version of the qcf x3 combo), I've give him invincibility in the leg tomahawk startup.  The tomahawk can still be air blocked though.  He's got a lot of priority, but is slow.  Will have to test a bit after the AI is done.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on October 12, 2008, 05:02:30 am
Didn't even realize that the views have surpassed 20000.  Thanks everyone for your interest.  Here's the Krauser vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7G25M1OoPg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7G25M1OoPg)

Just wanted to point out that the stage being used is a modification of P.O.T.S. RB Krauser stage (with his permission).  P.O.T.S. did an amazing job updating a lot of the effects to high res (the clouds look beautiful in his version), but it didn't fit the "32 bit" theme of the remaining stages, so I converted it back to its original effects.  I did keep the rain though.  Anyway here are some pics:

This is a SHOWDOWN GEESE!... Humph!  You are history!
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj119/swipergod/kras1.jpg)

Krauser's original "face smash" Phoenix Counter from RB, modified from J.Lee's code.
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj119/swipergod/kras2.jpg)

Krauser just 2 ticks away from connecting with the finish to his new 3 hit combo move.
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj119/swipergod/kras3.jpg)

Krauser's finish to his SDM version of Unlimited Desire.  Wasn't a fan of the UM version.  Turned that into a victory pose instead.
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj119/swipergod/kras4.jpg)
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: ^^ on October 12, 2008, 11:59:39 am
looks awesome so far, btw shouldn't you be contributor now? :P
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on October 12, 2008, 02:31:15 pm
lol.  Thanks.  Well, I've always said that my game takes priority over myself.  King of Mugen nominated me a few week ago, but because I don't really venture outside my topic that often, not too many people know me that well.  Not sure if the fact that I'm a modder has anything to do with it either.  I've only released a couple of unique stages, made a basic screenpack and only really ripped 1 character (Yuri) close to her entirety.  Plus I don't really want to push it if others don't think I should be.

Krauser should be released this afternoon.  I'll post the link when he's ready.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on October 12, 2008, 07:37:06 pm
Krauser's release topic:

http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=87985.0 (http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=87985.0)

I've updated his SDM and DM versions of Unlimited Desire so they scroll better.  Foxy created the multi-punch animation from Real Bout Special, so I added it into the SDM version for extra flare.  Well, as usual, let me know what you think.  2 more characters until the 1/2 way mark.  I'm gonna take a short breather before resuming Athena.

Mental note on things that need to be fixed: 

Geese's Raising Storm doesn't completely disappear if he's hit out of it.

Joe's Screw Upper needs to be switched over to a projectile.  It's too broken as a helper.

Rugal's Gravity shield needs to be changed from a hitoverride code since that doesn't allow big projectiles to get through.

All projectiles and explodes need the "ownpal" code applied so they aren't affected by palfxs.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Vans on October 12, 2008, 09:19:08 pm
Projectiles are always affected by PalFX. You'll need a helper to prevent that.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on October 12, 2008, 10:50:45 pm
Good to know.  I'm thinking about it.  Especially with Krauser's high Blitz Ball.  The issue has become more glaring.  That'll be for the next overhaul though.  Thanks Vans.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: PsychoDynamic on October 13, 2008, 12:11:40 am
I applaude sir for you do what i strive to do
Huge KOF fan
maybe we could merge one day on a project
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Vans on October 13, 2008, 02:37:37 am
Good to know.  I'm thinking about it.  Especially with Krauser's high Blitz Ball.  The issue has become more glaring.  That'll be for the next overhaul though.  Thanks Vans.

No problem. My characters handle projectiles using helpers, in case you want to check it out.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on October 13, 2008, 04:00:00 pm
Will do Vans.

Thanks PsychoDynamic, hope you're enjoying the game.  Projects outside of KOFE won't start till next summer at the earliest, since that's the pace this things been going at, but it'd be fun to do something with a group or in a team for a change.  Was planning on taking a breather from KOFE after the halfway point to make a bonus character that could be used outside KOFE, but I think it's better to just soldier on and finish the project first.

Cheers.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: PsychoDynamic on October 13, 2008, 04:15:47 pm
What someone should do is make KOF 2002 (best year for me)
online on either the ps3 or 360 shop
is that possible
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Bastard Mami on October 13, 2008, 04:23:37 pm
very offtopic. head to gaming discussion there is a kof 2002um topic in there.

Talking about the game, I have been a bit busy with mine lately, but now that I got an alpha out I can give some time to testing other stuff. That being said, expect some comments soon.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on October 14, 2008, 01:05:45 am
Congrats on your release [E]. :)  As always, I look forward to hearing from you.  You have been a big help to this project.  In your last feedback, you caught a lot of bugs and solidified gameplay.  I hope others will also leave some feedback too.  I think the roll fixes and new combo system have helped the game's advancement (hoping there's no infinites).

Keep in mind there's still some work to do with the AI who still "cheats" a bit in its chaining.  That'll be a fix for the next release, along with the proj helpers.

Just to follow up a bit on the bonus characters thing.  I will probably at least do one once the project is finished although I have 4 in mind: Neo Dio, a Nakoruru using NGBC sprites, Shiki and Gouki (I have a template from way back when Ryu was a part of the KOFE project).  They'd probably follow different mechanics than the KOFE batch, but since it's a long way away, I'm not really thinking about it too much.  Just something different.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on October 14, 2008, 06:18:31 am
Well, depending on how much fixing is need for the next full release, what I may end up doing is creating an intro story and credits.  Got inspired after listening to '98 UM's closing theme.  Intro story be pretty simple and use limited graphics, but'd get the point across.  I'll try to release the next update before next year, but we'll see.  After Athena and Benimaru, I'm still trying to figure out the best choice for the next wave.  Kula would be for sure, but I'm thinking Yashiro and Shermie, although I still need to rip Shermie's 2k2 voices and then maybe Goentiz.  I'd like to complete that wave, whatever it may be before another big release.  I'll sort it out during my break.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Bastard Mami on October 14, 2008, 04:49:51 pm
Shermie got some new cancels in kof02um that make her more noob friendly, I am also interested in kula and yif you are using iron's I hope you give her her juggling back.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on October 16, 2008, 05:21:40 am
I'm actually dying to play 2k2um.  I haven't been this excited for a KOF game since the original 2k2 game.  Shermie will be heavily influenced from her Orochi version and will only retain a few command throws.  I'll be honest [E], you may not like what I have in store for Kula, even though I'm using CCI's as a base.  Along with Angel, she was one of the big changes coming to this game.  She'll juggle, but she'll be different...

I've posted a Robert sprite edit help topic in the classified here:
http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=88200.0 (http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=88200.0)

I'd love to be able to do him and Andy before the end of the year, but that really depends on whether or not I can get help with this.  If you know any spriters who might be willing to give it a shot, or you are a spriter willing to give it a shot, please let me know.  I'll probably start back up on Athena this weekend in the meantime.  Cheers.

Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on October 20, 2008, 02:04:43 am
Well, I just got all sentimental since it's been about a year since I unofficially started this monster of a project.  Playing around with CCI's code, modifying King to the lovely fighter in KOFE that she is today.  Modifying the characters still found in the "alpha" section on the very first post of this site.  *sniff*. 

Anyway, there's still two more months till the official one year mark and I find myself needing to plan the year end up a bit more.  So here's the deal.  Athena is at 20% right now, but since I've finished her sexy KOs and a couple of sprite edits, she should be good to go for next weekend.  Next in line is Benimaru.  Why?  Because he "rubs" you!  I will be doing Robert and Andy next to wrap up the Garou and AOF teams.  I'm hoping someone will answer the Robert sprite request call, but even if I finish Robert first I will continue to seek out an editor to fix that ugly non-'03 stance of his.  That's all the characters you can expect this year.  After that, I'm gonna do the intro and credits.  Designing the credits will be a particular pain in the butt since I plan on having screenshot of characters in their team.  Plus there's a lot of people to credit.

By the way, I notice the number of view for this thread always jumps quite a bit with each post I do (sometimes by a couple hundred).  Yet almost no one posts anything here now except for me.  I'd like to hear more from those who keep up with this forum, just to know who's actually interested in the project.  Even if it's just to say hi.  Be interesting to know who's watching/playing the project and what tastes they have (ie, don't normally play KOF, but interested in the game or play KOF all the time, etc...).  I won't bite. :)
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Uche_of_MFG on October 20, 2008, 02:39:18 am
Wonder no more, swipergod. There is somebody who shows interest in your project. "Who" you ask?   Why it ME, Uche_of_MFG.

Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on October 20, 2008, 03:03:05 am
Welcome Uche1234.  Nice to see you making the transition from youtube over here.  I'm trying to join your chess game as we speak, but you seem to be AFK...  Guess I didn't take all the guest views into account.  So let me know what you think of the game so far.  Remember only having a brief chat a few times on youtube.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Uche_of_MFG on October 20, 2008, 03:32:31 pm
Welcome Uche1234.  Nice to see you making the transition from youtube over here.  I'm trying to join your chess game as we speak, but you seem to be AFK...  Guess I didn't take all the guest views into account.  So let me know what you think of the game so far. 
The game is great so far, except that Kim Kaphwan's AI spams that Ground Pound and Somersault Kick. Whoever gave the AI coding to you should bettter incorporate other moves. The same goes for Jhun Hoon as he uses the same moves over and over again.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on October 21, 2008, 06:56:22 am
Glad to hear you're enjoying the game.  Unfortunately Kim and Jhun shared the same AI base that was modified by myself and not Missfairy.  It was my first crack at it.  Lowering the random occurrences would probably help.  Since Missfairy hasn't been active on the project for awhile (I've been coding since Angel), it might be a little tricky for me since no new AI code is being developed, just modified.  I don't find Jhun as bad as Kim though.  He seems to use more variety since I based the moves more on positioning than just states and random triggers.

Once Athena's done, I'll be doing a test screen for the end credits before jumping to finish Benimaru.  Expect an Athena update within the next couple of days. 
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Bastard Mami on October 21, 2008, 03:46:33 pm
you cna use the cyanide ai coding style and just make some right movestrigger at some right times while having everything else handled by the mugen default ai.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on October 21, 2008, 06:17:26 pm
I think that's close to what Missfairy was using.  I'll post some sample code later on, including Kim's currently spammed moves, and see if anyone can offer pointers.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on October 25, 2008, 06:47:40 pm
Boy, I'm late with this.  Here's Kim's Fierce stomp AI code:

[State -1]
type = ChangeState
value = 1501
triggerall = p2stateno != 5040 && p2statetype != A
triggerall = var(9) = 1 && statetype != A
triggerall = roundstate = 2
trigger1 = (p2bodydist x <= 60) && p2statetype != A && p2statetype != L && p2stateno != 5201 && ctrl && random <= 100
trigger2 = stateno = 500 && animelemtime(4) >=0 && animelemtime(5) < 0 && movecontact && random <= 400
trigger2 = stateno = 235 && animelemtime(7) >=0 && animelemtime(8 ) < 0 && movehit && p2statetype !=A && random <= 100
trigger3 = stateno = 320 && animelemtime(3) >=0 && animelemtime(4) < 0 && movehit && random <= 100
trigger4 = (p2bodydist x <= 60) && p2statetype = L && ctrl && random <= 50


I added the random to trigger4 just recently so it should help lower the spam.

Fixes:  I've had to correct some nothitby states, so that they weren't completely invincible (ie they can still be thrown).  Mai, Joe and Leona's jump velocities have been corrected.  Kim's stomp has been changed to a crouch attack so only low counters can catch it (until now all standing counters caught it).  I've also fixed Mai triangle jump so she can grab the wall behind the opponent as well.

I'm strongly considering adding Krizalid to the mix.  He'd replace Orochi as a Boss and Orochi would become the Final Boss.

Athena's at 50%.  I've completed here stage (Chizuru '96), but am still undecided as to what music to give her.  Her '97 theme or the XI Wounded Moon theme.  Back to work...
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Dark Symphony on October 25, 2008, 09:52:10 pm
Man, I haven't checked back here in a while. I got all your files mixed up with other MUGEN stuff so I'm going to go back and redownload the full thing.

Athena's theme... Eh.. I thought 97's was boring and I think that theme and it's versions are kind of old. I've heard, what, the Arcade version (J), Arcade version (E), KOF 94, KOF 96, KOF 97, KOF 2002, KOF Kyo version 1, KOF Kyo version 2... a lot of them.

The XI theme is OK, but it's just trying to be KOF 2000's Will theme so why not use that?

Or you could be REAL cool and sue Shuddering Gong... The best Psycho Soldiers theme of all time that you could actually take them serious with...
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on October 26, 2008, 12:12:49 am
I'm still thinking up better ways at making the next full download easier than this.  The good news is that the music files will be substantially smaller next time around.  That'll get rid of a good 100 megs of space.

XI's Kizu Darake No Blue Moon is my favorite Psycho Soldier theme and I'd like to use a theme with lyrics.  I liked '98s version of Shuddering Gong, but they never arranged it (I'm using Arranged music only) and it doesn't fit Athena's pop starlet image as well.  '97s theme just fits the stage better though).  *shrug*
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on October 26, 2008, 08:17:05 pm
Athena's up around the 75% mark.  I'm currently trying to fix the mess that is the reflect.  It wasn't coded correctly and projectiles don't always reflect the way I need them to.  I'll be grabbing Rugal's reflect code fro this one.  I've got pics of where I'm at so far.  If you've already played with EI's athenaEX then you know what to expect in terms of how moves look, so I'll just show the edits.

Added dress flapping animation for this version of the reflect (it didn't have it before).  1 of 2 new sprites.
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj119/swipergod/mugen3.jpg)

Since KOFE is using the Unique fireball reflect system (to avoid proj problems), I grabbed the reflect from '97 and made it Athena's reflected fireball.  Thinking of making it more pink.
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj119/swipergod/mugen10.jpg)

Sexy KOs for all girls and Athena's no exception.  This is the first frame.
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj119/swipergod/mugen5.jpg)

Since I've got a headache from this damn reflect business, I'm gonna take a breather and finish it off later today or tomorrow.  Then I'll do the DMs and the AI and that should finish up Athena.  Cheers
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Uche_of_MFG on October 26, 2008, 10:31:55 pm
Fans of KOFE:  :2thumbsup: :beam: :suttrox: :lugoi: :charming: :glasses2: :gossip: :grin3: :guitarist: :drummer: :kiss2: :hump: :smiley2: :smile:

Yes, swipergod. They are estatic as we are when you unveiled Athena. Maybe now, we can get a respresentative from the Psycho Soldier Team.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: superyuzqy on October 27, 2008, 05:10:09 am
Chizuru's mirror can be breaked up by some persons(such as Krauser and kyo). I think this is a big bug to her.
(http://laiba.tianya.cn/laiba/images/690911/12250805450561534288/A/1/m.jpg)
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on October 27, 2008, 11:04:17 pm
Holy cow!  That's a huge bug.  Thanks for posting superyuzqy.  Can you offer more info?  Can you tell me when this occures or what move Chizuru/Kyo/Krauser was doing when it happened.  I'll see if I can replicate the issue and figure out a fix for it.  Clearly, this has something to do with the helper states since Chizuru's coding is full of them and I'm guessing this glitch doesn't happen with others.  I can't look at it today, but I'll check it out tomorrow.  Any more info would be appreciated and I'll release a fix for her when I release Athena.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Uche_of_MFG on October 28, 2008, 12:23:14 am
Holy cow!  That's a huge bug.  Thanks for posting superyuzqy.  Can you offer more info?  Can you tell me when this occures or what move Chizuru/Kyo/Krauser was doing when it happened.  I'll see if I can replicate the issue and figure out a fix for it.  Clearly, this has something to do with the helper states since Chizuru's coding is full of them and I'm guessing this glitch doesn't happen with others.  I can't look at it today, but I'll check it out tomorrow.  Any more info would be appreciated and I'll release a fix for her when I release Athena.
I think Chizuru spouts multiples of herself when she's thrown into from a corner of any stage.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: superyuzqy on October 28, 2008, 11:17:47 am
Chizuru's Guardian’s Judgement (f,d,df +wp) can be caught by Krasuer's Phoenix Thrust (f,d,df +p) Type 2 counter.  You can see the AI match, chizuru's Essence of Infinate Rites (d,df,f x2 +k) mirror  also can be caught by Krasuer, then she can not move. Silent Prayer (d,df,f x2 +2p) mirror can be caught in the same way.
Kyo's Demon Scorcher (f,d,df +p) can destroy Chizuru's Guardian’s Judgement mirror as well. Other people like Geese's Counter (d,db,b +wk), kasumi's Peach Tree Defense (d,db,b +wk) Counter also can caught chizuru's mirror.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Ebichumaru on October 28, 2008, 12:46:41 pm
I may not reply this topic due to time constraints, but I constantly check your updates and wholeheartedly support your project! Keep up the good work!
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Dark Symphony on October 29, 2008, 03:38:26 am
I'm still thinking up better ways at making the next full download easier than this.  The good news is that the music files will be substantially smaller next time around.  That'll get rid of a good 100 megs of space.

XI's Kizu Darake No Blue Moon is my favorite Psycho Soldier theme and I'd like to use a theme with lyrics.  I liked '98s version of Shuddering Gong, but they never arranged it (I'm using Arranged music only) and it doesn't fit Athena's pop starlet image as well.  '97s theme just fits the stage better though).  *shrug*


Well, I hadn't seen what your Athena looked like so I must say that Shuddering Gong wouldn't fit too well, yeah.


Want to blow some minds? Use one of the KOF KYO versions of Psycho Solder.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Uche_of_MFG on October 29, 2008, 03:40:59 am
I'm strongly considering adding Krizalid to the mix.  He'd replace Orochi as a Boss and Orochi would become the Final Boss.
What?!  o_O All due respect, Orochi was sealed away by the Sacred Treasures Team back in 1997. How did the seal get broken if Orochi is the final boss?

Yes, I know it has taken too long for me to notice this, but I was occupied with my thoughts at the time and didn't think about this very much.

Back to what I was saying: If anything, Kain R. Heinlin should be the final boss.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Zenotron on October 29, 2008, 04:07:39 am
I'm strongly considering adding Krizalid to the mix.  He'd replace Orochi as a Boss and Orochi would become the Final Boss.
What?!  o_O All due respect, Orochi was sealed away by the Sacred Treasures Team back in 1997. How did the seal get broken if Orochi is the final boss?

Yes, I know it has taken too long for me to notice this, but I was occupied with my thoughts at the time and didn't think about this very much.

Back to what I was saying: If anything, Kain R. Heinlin should be the final boss.



He is adding Orochi as the final boss because this is a dream match.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on October 29, 2008, 05:21:04 am
Well, if you think about it, Yashiro, Vice, Shermie, Mature, Goentiz, Rugal and Krizalid are all dead, but are still in the game (Geese's death is apparently not KOF cannon).  It's a dream match, but there's a story behind it (simple, nothing mind blowing) that'll I'll be putting in when I do the intro and credits later on.  It "might" have to do with the 50th and as of yet unannounced character, but I'm not sure if I want to add anyone else at this point.  The 49th, Krizalid, is himself still up in the air...

Don't worry, Kain will be represented even though he's not in the game.

KOF Kyo Psycho Soldier?  Haven't heard that version.  I'll download it and check it out.

Thanks for the shout out Ebichumaru.

superyuzqy, thanks for catching this major glitch.  I see it's reversal defs that bind that seem to be causing the Chizuru problem.  It should be a quick fix.  I'll look into it some time tomorrow.

Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on October 29, 2008, 10:38:27 pm
Chizuru has been fixed.   8)  Hitoverrides were missing for some of the helper moves.  She now goes through counters, which can be devastating, but since she's a boss, I can live with it.  Helpers are such a pain.  The coding seems incomplete in some ways.  I'd much rather have the helpers getting grabbed = Chizuru getting grabbed, but I'm not sure that's possible without cloning occurring.

Character update news.  I'll be completing the reflect issue with Athena today.  That'll just leave the DMs and AI.  I will be adding Krizalid to the list and one other.  Initially I wanted to add Neo Dio, but conceiving his moves has been a nightmare.  There were other possibilities, but I've got to be honest here.  I'm running out of moves to give characters.  Plus I've been itching to do an SFer.  Those who know about the early days of the project know about Ryu KOFE who was removed soon after his announcement.  Well, as KOFE's only bonus character,  Gouki will be making it into the game.  Send your hate mail now.  He will use the template set by the Evil Ryu I was working on.  He'll have 6 special moves (including his hooligan combo type move) and 4 DMs (like Rugal).  Instant Hell Murder will be instant death.  If I can find a spriter for this project, he may not last, but as it stands right now, those are the 50 official characters.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Uche_of_MFG on October 30, 2008, 01:32:01 am
Chizuru has been fixed.   8)  Hitoverrides were missing for some of the helper moves.  She now goes through counters, which can be devastating, but since she's a boss, I can live with it.  Helpers are such a pain.  The coding seems incomplete in some ways.  I'd much rather have the helpers getting grabbed = Chizuru getting grabbed, but I'm not sure that's possible without cloning occurring.

Character update news.  I'll be completing the reflect issue with Athena today.  That'll just leave the DMs and AI.  I will be adding Krizalid to the list and one other.  Initially I wanted to add Neo Dio, but conceiving his moves has been a nightmare.  There were other possibilities, but I've got to be honest here.  I'm running out of moves to give characters.  Plus I've been itching to do an SFer.  Those who know about the early days of the project know about Ryu KOFE who was removed soon after his announcement.  Well, as KOFE's only bonus character,  Gouki will be making it into the game.  Send your hate mail now.  He will use the template set by the Evil Ryu I was working on.  He'll have 6 special moves (including his hooligan combo type move) and 4 DMs (like Rugal).  Instant Hell Murder will be instant death.  If I can find a spriter for this project, he may not last, but as it stands right now, those are the 50 official characters.
SF, huh? You don't say. You got my support and the support of your fans. Isn't that right?
 :kugoi: :suttrox: :lugoi: :2thumbsup: :afro: :crowngrin: :hair: :hair2: :thumbsup: :wideeyed: :wink3: :wiseguy: :wry: :gugoi: :nutrox: :yeses: :yesgoi: :hump: :yugoi: :beamgoi:<=====Fans of Swipergod: (cheers and applause)
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Shaggy on October 30, 2008, 07:21:58 am
Just want to wish you luck on your ambitious project and report a bug i found on Mr. karate.  There was a few times he would clone himself, mainly on recovery rolls.  Anyway, great job so far, good luck.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on October 30, 2008, 08:59:59 pm
Thanks Shaggy.  That glitch occurs because you may have modified the KOFE Mugen system or maybe aren't using it.  The recovery rolls had a helper called "tech bonus" that would've popped up every time you recovered, but I nixed it.  The code still exists in the characters, but only as an unhittable helper.  If you use a non-KOFE character, or have modified the engine I included with the release or the character code, that may be triggering your cloning issue.  Other than that, I can't duplicate this glitch, so I'm not sure what else it could be.

Thank you kindly Uche.

Athena's just got her SDM and HSDM to go.  She'll be a Sunday release for sure.  I'm thinking of skipping Benimaru for Andy and coming back to him after.  I'd like to finish a team and nothing's really stopping me from doing Andy.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on November 01, 2008, 07:06:43 pm
Edit:  Athena's vid here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVd7wGvBLtc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVd7wGvBLtc)

Athena's moveset is now complete.  Like Iori, I wanted to make her HSDM interlude something different then the norm.  I've included a pic below to show what the result was.  Looks better when animated.  I'll be post a vid in a little while so, check back soon.

Major changes done to Athena:

Stabilizing the Phoenix arrow and fang arrow moves.  The number of hits were so random depending on how big your opponent was and how far you were.  Now, there's a ceiling for each (3 hits for weak, 5 for strong, 12 for DM and 21 for SDM) and Athena's more likely to get the full amount of hits now.

The juggling for Shining Crystal Bit has been reduced.  It now only does 2 hits.  This increases its reliability.  Since most of Athena's other moves are relatively weak, SCB is one of the strongest HSDMs in the game.

Psycho Shot is a DM and has pop up properties.  With some skill, you can chain the slow PS into the SDM Fang Arrow for some sweet damage.  You can also chain the weak PS into a strong PS.

Athena has 2 reflect effects.  Her weak one reflects fireballs, her strong one absorbs fireballs, filling a bit less than 1/3 of 1 level.

Changed her classic "sneeze taunt".  I'm not really a fan of it.  She now wishes her opponent good luck and winks at them.

She'll be released tomorrow after I finish her AI.  I'll also be releasing a fixed Chizuru (I've also fixed the animation for her P throw) and an updated Vanessa in the pack.

(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj119/swipergod/mugen0.jpg)
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Uche_of_MFG on November 02, 2008, 01:21:51 am
Edit:  Athena's vid here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVd7wGvBLtc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVd7wGvBLtc)

Athena's moveset is now complete.  Like Iori, I wanted to make her HSDM interlude something different then the norm.  I've included a pic below to show what the result was.  Looks better when animated.  I'll be post a vid in a little while so, check back soon.

Major changes done to Athena:

Stabilizing the Phoenix arrow and fang arrow moves.  The number of hits were so random depending on how big your opponent was and how far you were.  Now, there's a ceiling for each (3 hits for weak, 5 for strong, 12 for DM and 21 for SDM) and Athena's more likely to get the full amount of hits now.

The juggling for Shining Crystal Bit has been reduced.  It now only does 2 hits.  This increases its reliability.  Since most of Athena's other moves are relatively weak, SCB is one of the strongest HSDMs in the game.

Psycho Shot is a DM and has pop up properties.  With some skill, you can chain the slow PS into the SDM Fang Arrow for some sweet damage.  You can also chain the weak PS into a strong PS.

Athena has 2 reflect effects.  Her weak one reflects fireballs, her strong one absorbs fireballs, filling a bit less than 1/3 of 1 level.

Changed her classic "sneeze taunt".  I'm not really a fan of it.  She now wishes her opponent good luck and winks at them.

She'll be released tomorrow after I finish her AI.  I'll also be releasing a fixed Chizuru (I've also fixed the animation for her P throw) and an updated Vanessa in the pack.

(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj119/swipergod/mugen0.jpg)
I look forward to trying out the latest version of M.U.G.E.N. KOFE.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on November 02, 2008, 07:42:41 pm
Athena has been posted here: http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=89047.0 (http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=89047.0)

Last second fixes include changing her stage music to the XI special theme (Wounded Blue Moon) and giving her a special intro with Kyo.

Also included in the package are small fixes to Vanessa and Kyo (a super spark fix and special intro addition), plus Chizuru's major bug fix pointed out above plus cleaner animation for her P throw.

It'll be a little bit for I start up with Benimaru.  Until then, enjoy!
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: superyuzqy on November 03, 2008, 02:30:50 am
Great work! :)
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: weakinall on November 03, 2008, 08:09:34 am
support your project forever.

thanks for your hard work
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Uche_of_MFG on November 03, 2008, 04:07:22 pm
Athena has been posted here: http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=89047.0 (http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=89047.0)

Last second fixes include changing her stage music to the XI special theme (Wounded Blue Moon) and giving her a special intro with Kyo.

Also included in the package are small fixes to Vanessa and Kyo (a super spark fix and special intro addition), plus Chizuru's major bug fix pointed out above plus cleaner animation for her P throw.

It'll be a little bit for I start up with Benimaru.  Until then, enjoy!
What are your plans for Benimaru Nikado?
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Bastard Mami on November 03, 2008, 04:20:02 pm
yah, his kof xii dm should be easy to recreate.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Uche_of_MFG on November 03, 2008, 08:20:10 pm
Has anyone noticed this bug?
(http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m50/Uche1234/Temporary%20Album/KOFEGlitch.png)
It occureed when Kyo interrupted one of Leona's DM/SDM/I don't know what kind of M(I really don't).
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: BC on November 03, 2008, 08:52:52 pm
mayb a nothitby is needed?

usually thats what happens when your helper is hit, or you accidently added a blue collision to it

if your talking about the clone...
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on November 03, 2008, 10:53:13 pm
Thank you all for your kind words.  We're only a character away from the official 1/2 point now.

Uche, I'll need to know which move you did.  As far as I remember, Leona doesn't have helpers coded into her DMs.  She has a helper for her earring attack and her balic launcher attack.  There's probably a hitoverride needed.  I'll test, but if you can remember the move, it would help out a bunch.

Blue collisions are needed so helper projectiles can hit reg projectiles.  That's how the reflects work anyway.  Problem is when the helper being hit isn't destroyed when it "reels from an attack".  That's why hitoverrides are helpful.  To my knowledge through, this cloning issue only occurs when the helper is a projectile and not a hitdef.

Benimaru...  It's tough to say.  I had planned on going one route and making him a combination of '98 and '99, but those who know the style I'm going for with this game, know that I like to stay away from repetition and blend as many incarnations as I can.  So far, I'm thinking this (sorry, too lazy to look up the real name right now):

Specials:

Lightning fist (ground and air)
His '98 Electric Flip kick (either the stand alone or the combo 3 attack version)
His electric grab
His spinning kick
Dashing attack (his super from CVS, but toned down)

DMs:

Super lightning fist
(SDM) LDM Super lightning fist
Electrigger (HSDM)
Genri Hurricane

I like the DM from XII, but I'm saving that concept for someone who is short on DMs and could use one (like Mature), since it's pretty simple to give anybody (minus the electric effects).  I never got the knee attack, so I'm not sure if I should let him keep it.  Traditionalists will fight me to the bone, but what does it do that a regular close up attack doesn't?
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Bastard Mami on November 03, 2008, 11:22:51 pm
which knee attack ?
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Palette Jesus on November 03, 2008, 11:26:47 pm
To my knowledge through, this cloning issue only occurs when the helper is a projectile and not a hitdef.

I think its actually the other way around. hitoverides are not needed for projectile sctrls with blue clsn, but projectiles that have blue clsn using hitdefs actually need hitoverrides, use" ignorehitpause=1" in the "Hitoverride" to be safe as well.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on November 04, 2008, 01:35:09 am
Rajaa.  I think we agree here, I just may have been somewhat vague.  I meant when a helper is an explode with a hitdef code as opposed to a projectile defined hitdef.  Both "hit", but in my game, the cloning problem only seems to arise when the helper has defined it's hit as a "projectile and not a "hitdef" in the type line.  I'm only speculating at this point though, since this problem seems to just be popping up now.

[E], the knee I'm talking about is Iai Geri (d,df,f +k).  I just don't get that move.  They tacked on a follow up in '99, but the initializing move isn't anything special and the tack on looks awkward.  Plus the lightning fist attacks close already.  It's only somewhat slower, but can still combo.  So I don't see the point of that knee.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Bastard Mami on November 04, 2008, 04:39:24 pm
I play regularly with benimaru so I will tell you that it is a very important move after 97. In kof 97 you can combo a hcb+punch after a crouching weak kick, after that game you can't longer combo it, so tyhe qcf +kick (and the dp in the few kof games he has it) is the only move that can combo from a crouching weka kick. In the later kof games that have super cancel it becomes even more useful because you can easily combo a super from it ( kof xi, crouching b x2, qcf+ kick, qcf-qcu +kick triggers the follow up, qcf+ punch triggers the super cancel, qcf +E triggers the ldm).
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on November 05, 2008, 12:02:53 am
Hmm...  Sounds like a unique chain move in the KOFE system here.  A move that chains into other moves, not really an ender like lightning fist.  I'll make it Benimaru's unique chain.  That way it'll still do what it did in actual KOF games, just with a different input and less damage. 

I will check on the cloning glitch over the weekend.  Let me know if there's any other issues.  I'll let you know when I start Benimaru.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Uche_of_MFG on November 06, 2008, 06:17:25 pm
This may turn out to be the most unique King of Fighters we ever played. By the way, I snook a preview a Robert Garcia in the Development Resources section of the Mugen Fighters Guild forum. Is it true that he will have his King of Fighters: NESTS Saga attire, but will fight like he was in The King of Fighters 2003?
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on November 07, 2008, 04:19:15 am
While the posting in the development section is just looking for help to sprite the stance, in a sense, yes.  His Hien Shippu Kyakuu will be a (qcb +k x4) move and he will have a high and low fullscreen fireball instead of a slow and fast fireball.  He will not be able to delay his Haoh Shokoken though since Yuri and Karate already do that.  He will retain his dragon punch though.  Robert will the last character release of the year, after Benimaru and Andy are completed.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on November 09, 2008, 02:26:43 am
I was checking Athena's clone issue.  In this case the Shining Crystal Bit helpers do not need Clsn2s because they aren't supposed to be destroyed unless Athena is hit.  I'll still need to look at Leona.  if you want to quick fix Athena, delete the Clsn2default from the 3052 animation (not the Clsn1default).  This should stop her cloning and the helpers will still hit projectiles.  If this is too complicated you'll probably have to wait until Benimaru's release.

Edit:  After playing with Athena a bit more, I realized that part of SCB wasn't hitting.  As I corrected it, I realized that there's a huge damage fix I need to make.  Might be worth waiting for the fix after all.

Speaking of Benimaru, I've given him his CVS dash attack as a non-DM move and it feels pretty good.  It doesn't "playerpush" so it's a bit different from moves like burning knuckles.  I'm also giving Benimaru the flip lightning kick as a part of the 3 part combo only.  I'll start converting him next weekend.  Cheers.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on November 09, 2008, 03:46:16 pm
Well, I guess I was way too quick to release Athena.  As I fixed the damage problem, I realized there was a new problem when she tried to reflect Hyper Projectiles.  I've now fixed this issue as well.  All should be well with her now.

Despite telling myself I wouldn't, I did start Benimaru anyway.  Just bare basics.  Guess I'm really anxious to hit that 1/2 point.  Below is a photo of his new move.  This is still an alpha, unlike most of my photos, so there aren't any electric palfxs and this isn't the correct screenpack pictured.

(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj119/swipergod/mugen6.jpg)
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Uche_of_MFG on November 09, 2008, 09:36:18 pm
An excellent start to an excellent character. Your King of Fighters "Dream Match" will win the most unique King of Fighters Dream Match award yet.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on November 16, 2008, 10:37:57 pm
Simple update.  Work and other projects have kept me really busy.  I managed to complete Benimaru's basics.  So it's on to Specials and DMs.  Not too complicated, but a release probably won't happen until next weekend.

I've also found a webhosting site for the project (thanks to BigBoss for the tip).  Now I'm going to have to recall my website creation 101 so I can make the page and upload the game to a permanent home.  This is good for several reasons.  Now when a character is updated I can just post the updated character online, instead of repackaging them over and over again.  I'll launch the site with the updated system that includes the intro and credits next year at some point (I just don't have time right now).  It'll be super simple.

Homepage w/News (Welcome to KOFE, here's what's new)
Downloads -> Char packs + Game System + Full Game downloads

If you'd like to help coding the page, just let me know.  I could use the help.  Cheers.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Dark Symphony on November 17, 2008, 12:40:25 am
JOOC, what tools/programs are you using (if any) to assist you with this project?
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on November 17, 2008, 05:12:28 am
This is the site I was given:

000webhost.com (http://000webhost.com)

All I've done at the moment though is created an account and looked over some info briefly since I don't have the time yet to read through and figure out if I can port webpages or if I can only use templates provided by the site and other such details.

A website will be very beneficial to the project for sure and once it's created I'll just need to update it with the latest releases and news, so it's the getting there that'll be the "time and effort".  After I've finished Andy and Robert and update a few characters, I'll give more on the status of the site.  Really, it should just take a weekend to set up, but it's finding that weekend right now that's the problem.

After that, I'll create the intro and in game credits and have a nice happy launch (maybe save Andy and Robert for the launch or launch with Krizalid, not sure yet).
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Uche_of_MFG on November 17, 2008, 04:33:05 pm
I must congratulate you on your progress, swiergod. Let's face it: M.U.G.E.N.: The King of Fighters Edition is...

Dy-No-Mite!!!! :woot: :woot: Dy-No-Mite!!!! :woot: :woot:
Dy-No-Mite!!!! :woot: :woot: Dy-No-Mite!!!! :woot: :woot:
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

Be sure to put a list of your WIPs, the percentages of colmletion, the current characters, stages, etc.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on November 22, 2008, 04:53:51 pm
My apologies for the lack of updates this week.  My other project outside Mugen has been consuming most of my free time.  I've completed Benimaru's specials.  Now he just needs his DMs and AI.  I have to jump back to my other project for a bit, but I'll see if I can't do more tonight.  I'd like to get Benimaru out there because he signals the 1/2 point in terms of characters, I can plan out the website a little bit more and Athena glitch fixed version that will be bundled with him is also begging to be released.

I'm still holding out to get Robert and Andy out there this year.  We'll see if I can get some help with the website and if I can set aside a weekend to work of the credits screens.  I'll keep you updated.  I can confirm that the next release fullgame release will have Krizalid, but it might not be out until some time in January.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: RunningWild on November 22, 2008, 09:14:58 pm
Alright, I downloaded the game. Here's some of my thoughts.

Far as the presentation goes, looks pretty good I suppose. Gonna need to eventually get your own lifebars though. If you want, I have some KOF95 lifebars that could be used for it. They look pretty rad and old school, I also have KOF94 lifebars laying around somewhere, but they need some fixing up.

Anyways, getting into the system itself, I like what I see so far. Old school KOF gameplay mechanics, no super canceling or anything fancy. However the rolling REALLY needs to be fixed, they are far too spammable. I noticed the CPU loves to spam rolls and it makes them very difficult to hit. I also don't like how rolling leaves those bold dark shadow trails, maybe lighten them up some?

First character I picked was Ryo. I see you removed Koho Shippuken and Kyokugen Renbuken, cutting his combo capabilities in half, although he can now juggle with a Haohshouken after a Zanretsuken which now wires. He also can't chain light punch into itself anymore. Close strong kick isn't cancelable, so I can't combo it into Hienshippukyaku. Close hard punch can't combo into Zanretsuken. Crouching weak kick should also chain easier into crouching hard punch, I had a helluva time connecting those together.

Overall, it feels kinda stiff and it's hard to do even the most basic combo's. Needs some serious tweaking I think. I also think it could use some different DM/SDM effects, I don't think the MOTW and RB2 effects fit too well with the KOF sprites.

I also question which authors creations you used to edit, such as zzasd's Kyo and K', and Ahuron's Vanessa.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on November 23, 2008, 04:05:15 am
 Thanks for giving the game a whirl Wild Tangu.  Presentation is very simple at the moment.  Everything in the screenpack is ripped from the game with the exception of the lifebars.  I'm particular though.  I'm looking for lifebars that have the super meter right below it.  I would make some, but that'll probably be later on.  In game credits are the number one screenpack priority at the moment.

The roll was taken from CCI's system.  All characters roll the same and cover the same distance.  So no character has the edge over the other in terms of a longer roll or whatnot.  I've cut down the invincibility by quite a bit at [E]'s request already.  The only reason it appears spammable is because the AI Missfairy created is programed to read the initiation of an attack and roll to avoid it 80% of the time if their ctrl = 1.  Kinda cheap, but it's to make the AI more challenging.  Without it, I'd get complaints that the AI is too easy.  Human players will be more hard-pressed to roll at the right moment, unless they anticipate an attacks coming.  I'll log the roll issue though and see if it comes up again.

If your a hardcore SNK fan and you have a few characters you've mastered, you will find that their play control has changed.  K.O.D. mentioned somethings about the K' in this game, Vans talked about Terry and several people mentioned changes about Iori and Kim.  The thing is, I'm setting out to try to balance out as many characters as I possibly can with sub bosses and final bosses being the only "unbalanced" characters.  When I'm making one character I've got to consider many, else people will just pick the strongest 4 all the time and it would've been a waste for me to make the other 45 characters.  It's really that different between making a single character and a game with numerous characters.  I can see why SNK has changed up so many characters movesets between each game now. 

For comboing, the 2 in 1 system is now the norm for all characters.  Crouching SP and close SP chain into most special moves and some DMs.  Each character also has a unique chain as well.  For Ryo I believe it's his close WP that chains into f+wp, which can then chain into a host of moves (Hien, his dp, Ranbu).  Hard for me to guess without playing or looking at his cmd.  I've purposely avoided chaining SDMs and HSDMs because of the near 100% combos that would unleash.  For combos it's a question right now of exploring the game to see what chains.  Some old schools are still in, but most are out for balance sake.  Ryo's pretty hardcore though.  His parries can be cancelled out of when they connect with a move and, yes, the wire ability was given to his SP Zan.  When he's closer to the wall, you can also chain Hien and Kou from the Zan, so positioning with Ryo is extra important to taken solid command in a fight.

Someone else mentioned the DM Sparks in the past, but I really don't know what other sparks there are.  The old KOF DM sparks are far too ugly.  And I have vowed to try my best not to use any Capcom FX in this SNK tribute.  People have also questioned the authors I use.  Mainly due to the incorrect axis and clns boxes (since I do a lot of velocity and timing corrections with the characters I use).  Thing is, if I did my own ripping and axis correcting, this project would go on for 5 years, maybe longer.  I've tried with Yuri, this is how I know.  I ripped about 70% of the sprites used for this Yuri and because the Axis and frame rate were different than XI Yuri (I used Juke's), I had to do a lot of correcting.  In the end, she took me about 3 weeks to do and that wasn't even starting from scratch.  Don't forget, I'm working all by my lonesome here.  People who've offered to help in the past, have shied away after realizing how much work there is to do.  Can't really blame them.  Playing games is one thing, but making them just isn't for everybody.  Don't worry.  These aren't the final versions of the characters.  Once all 49 characters are done, there will be a final rebalancing.  Hopefully I'll get some input from the community for that so that broken characters can be fixed and glitches, frame counts, hitdef etc can be corrected.

I do appreciate all comments though, and hopefully you have more, or would like to respond to the ones posted.  It's critical posts like these that I'd like to throw up on my website once its made to entice conversation and see what people are thinking about the game.  Since it's been a year since the project has started, it's come a long way, but there's still a ways to go.  Thanks again!
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: RunningWild on November 23, 2008, 04:29:29 am
Honestly, I wouldn't use the roll from CCI's system. Problem is, it results in BS like characters rolling in and out of moves. Example - Geese does a Thunder Break, Terry rolls INTO it, but then he safely rolls out of it. Total BS. I had some trouble going through an arcade run with Ryo when the CPU would run into my Zanretsuken, then roll away. Pissed me off beyond belief, until I finally nailed them with it and Haohshokouken'ed them in the face. :P

Anyways, keep up the good work, at least you seem to be pretty dedicated to this full game idea. The thing I like about it is the consistency is really good. I was also toying around with King and noticed you gave her the Surprise Rose DM, good choice, good choice. I like it alot.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Bastard Mami on November 23, 2008, 04:51:03 am
Honestly, I wouldn't use the roll from CCI's system. Problem is, it results in BS like characters rolling in and out of moves. Example - Geese does a Thunder Break, Terry rolls INTO it, but then he safely rolls out of it. Total BS. I had some trouble going through an arcade run with Ryo when the CPU would run into my Zanretsuken, then roll away. Pissed me off beyond belief, until I finally nailed them with it and Haohshokouken'ed them in the face. :P

After 4 years, finally found someone who agrees with me on that.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on November 23, 2008, 05:00:30 am
Thanks for the King compliment.  King's actually my best character in real KOF games (pre '03), even though I'm more fond of Leona and Mary.  This whole project actually started with King.  She was the first completed character and the first character I experimented on with editing and special intro additions (King vs Mai was the very first Special Intro in my game), so she got a lot of extra attention.  Surprise Rose's cross up potential can be a bitch at times.  *Sigh*, memories...

Well, I'm open to ideas on an alternative to the roll.  I'm just extremely paranoid that removing too much invincibility will result in a '96 roll system (hard as a bitch to roll past Goentiz' wind wall attack).  There are six hittable frames at the end of the roll currently.  I could knock it down to 8 (this is out of 33 btw)?  I've already experimented with 11, but that felt like too much.  Maybe I can also reduce the roll velocity so they don't roll as far.  Give me some numbers to play around with.  What are the values that you use [E]?  So long as there's consistency with all characters, I don't mind.  As for the afterimage, I can reduce the transparency.  Just throw things out there.  :)  Cheers.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Bastard Mami on November 23, 2008, 05:17:53 am
I use 6 ticks completely vulnerable in the end.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Dark Symphony on November 24, 2008, 06:18:26 am
80% chance to roll through an attack if ctrl = 1? Oh my....

I really wish people would stop programming stuff like that. It's just not.. good. It's not ingenious, it's not intelligent, it's just goofy. I'm tired of fighting MUGEN characters that will chain roll through a bunch of things because they're programmed to roll or teleport through most attacks when they start. It's boring. There's nothing fun or challenging about it. It just means they're going to roll. It doesn't really do anything. It doesn't make the game harder since there's nothing I can really do to bait a roll unless I can do a light attack then throw in which case now the game is too easy.

I wish people would try to find better ways to implement things than to throw in things like surefire rolls.

I liked how in CVS 1 and 2, you couldn't roll backwards. I think that that works well since I like how you trade your safety for invulnerability.

Seriously... who ENJOYS fighting roll-happy opponents? 80%? So I pretty much have to go for Counter-Hits or punishes?

I mean, it might just be me, but think about it... is that REALLY challenging? Or fun?

This was more of a rant about rolls in MUGEN as a whole, not just (or even in) this game.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on November 25, 2008, 03:37:30 pm
Unfortunately, I'm not a AI programmer.  All I have to go off of is what Missfairy left me.  Her newer code implemented less rolling, but she hasn't been active on the project since KOF v2.  If I tell the AI not to roll, it become super easy to cornertrap them until you KO them.  We experimented with Ryo.

King would pound Ryo into the corner.  Without the roll, Ryo would attempt to DP.  I would do a quick jab to sucker him into it.  Then I would capitalize until he was dead.  Without a level in his super stock, he can't do the counter attack.  Because Mugen's default AI is simple, we've got to manipulate where we can if you want a fight where you're not 100% guarenteed to win.  Trust me DS.  I'm with you here.  Human vs Human fights are much different.  But without an AI wizard to code multiple possibilities based on positioning, life, priority, etc... This is all I have to work with right now.  I can't even get the AI to reflect projectiles.  Actually, projectiles can be somewhat of a problem.

80% is a number.  Since it's actually triggered by a random value and can be overruled by other moves (ie Ryo is more likely to DP when close than roll), it kinda varries a bit.

Benimaru should be finished tonight.  I'll post the vid when I've got a second.  Also been looking into website help.  Might have a few people interested in helping, so that might go up soon.

Cheers.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Uche_of_MFG on November 25, 2008, 07:20:46 pm
This just keeps getting better & better.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on November 26, 2008, 06:42:32 pm
Thanks Uche.  I didn't get to do anything yesterday because I didn't get home until really late.  I will try for a release tomorrow (I have to update the PDF).  Sorry, this should've been released over the last weekend, but he's coming.

Provided my other project keeps to schedule I'm going to take a break from character programing to design the website.  I use iWeb.  It's simple enough.  Once it's done I'm hoping to find someone to convert it to the 000webhost.com format and activate the links etc... as I don't really have time to reteach myself how to do that.  Things on that front are looking good.  After that, I think I'll start the in game credits.  Since I have potential help with the Robert sprites, I figured I'd let some time pass before starting him up.

Provided the website can get off the ground by year's end.  I may try to blitz near the end of the year to complete Andy, Robert and Krizalid and have them to help launch the site and KOF v4.

I also wanted to point out that the project is indeed a year old now.  Just wanted to say thanks to all those who showed interest and support in the project and stuck around to see the first 24 characters come to fruition.  We quickly approach 30,000 views.  I'm really happy I could keep this going and look forward to completing the beta in the next year.  Hopefully other mugen projects move along and one day, we'll even be able to play online (one can always hope).

Cheers.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Uche_of_MFG on November 26, 2008, 09:29:13 pm
Again, I and every supporter of this project wish you the best of luck with your projects.
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on November 27, 2008, 12:58:05 am
Benimaru as promised:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SSjdkXQPeQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SSjdkXQPeQ)

I will work hard to complete him today for a release tomorrow.  1/2 way point attained.  Yay! 
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Uche_of_MFG on November 27, 2008, 01:10:23 am
Benimaru as promised:

[youtube,425,344]0SSjdkXQPeQ[/youtube]

I will work hard to complete him today for a release tomorrow.  1/2 way point attained.  Yay! 
Looking good so far. I bet Goro Daimon will look even better.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on November 27, 2008, 02:01:28 am
Goro won't be making it into this project.  I couldn't conceptualize him very well.  Adel has taken his place (actually Duck King took his place and Adel took Duck King's place).  You can see the full confirmed roster and current status of the project on the 1st post on the 1st page of this topic.

Guys like Goro, Saisyu, K'9999 and Heidern got the short end of the stick.  There were plan for them, but I just couldn't figure out what to do with them/make them stand out.  Plus I needed to give myself a cutoff or I'd be working on this project forever.

I actually decided to put Krizalid in because Nameless (from 2k2 UM) reminded me of him a bit (look-wise).  I played with Krizalid and realized that I couldn't make a decent regular character out of him, but I could make a good boss character with him.  Else I wouldn't have added him to the roster.

Roster talk is fun. :)
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Uche_of_MFG on November 27, 2008, 03:12:25 am
Goro won't be making it into this project.  I couldn't conceptualize him very well.  Adel has taken his place (actually Duck King took his place and Adel took Duck King's place).  You can see the full confirmed roster and current status of the project on the 1st post on the 1st page of this topic.

Guys like Goro, Saisyu, K'9999 and Heidern got the short end of the stick.  There were plan for them, but I just couldn't figure out what to do with them/make them stand out.  Plus I needed to give myself a cutoff or I'd be working on this project forever.

I actually decided to put Krizalid in because Nameless (from 2k2 UM) reminded me of him a bit (look-wise).  I played with Krizalid and realized that I couldn't make a decent regular character out of him, but I could make a good boss character with him.  Else I wouldn't have added him to the roster.

Roster talk is fun. :)
:evilgrin: Say, if somebody were to rip the sprites of Nameless, could you use those to make him into your project?
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on November 27, 2008, 04:11:56 am
I would strongly consider adding a Nameless/K'9999 blend character to this project if the Nameless spritesheet were ripped, but that'll be further down the line either way.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on November 28, 2008, 03:14:40 am
Benimaru release:

http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=90141.0 (http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=90141.0)

This will be the last time a character for KOFE will be released in this fashion.  KOFE will evolve to celebrate it's second year.  I've already blabbed enough.  Enjoy.

Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Uche_of_MFG on November 28, 2008, 04:28:29 am
Benimaru release:

http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=90141.0 (http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=90141.0)

This will be the last time a character for KOFE will be released in this fashion.  KOFE will evolve to celebrate it's second year.  I've already blabbed enough.  Enjoy.


Does that mean we will be seeing your website soon?
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on November 29, 2008, 04:17:39 pm
It's at least a month away, if not a bit longer.  It really isn't too much to get excited about as it will probably just be bare bones.  It should just make downloading/upgrading characters a whole lot easier.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Uche_of_MFG on November 30, 2008, 12:15:32 am
It's at least a month away, if not a bit longer.  It really isn't too much to get excited about as it will probably just be bare bones.  It should just make downloading/upgrading characters a whole lot easier.
Did you at least update your KOFE?
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on November 30, 2008, 12:59:20 am
There have been a lot of minor character updates since v3.  Things like velocity fixes and some glitching that occurs when fighting simul fights, but no major changes to the system yet.  If you go back a few pages you can read some of the fixes that have been done.  The intro and credits will be done more towards the end of the year.  For now, with Benimaru out, the focus is on getting this website up.

One thing I was thinking of doing for v4 was giving all characters their arm/leg snap animations for Blue Mary's attacks, but I'm still waiting on '98 UM sprite packs, so I can get Mr.Big's, Krauser's and Goenitz'.

Big thanks MFG for the upgrade to Contributor.  I am humbled. :)
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on December 02, 2008, 06:29:26 am
Big change in plans.  Krizalid will be pushed back a bit.  I am confirming number 50.  Since the number of characters in this project keeps going up, I'm sure no one will believe me when I say, "This is it for additions," but 50 is a nice round number for me.

I know I was playing around with idea of Gouki making it in, but he's getting the axe.  I've finally conceptualized Neo-Dio into a format that will work for KOFE.  He will be the alternative final boss.

Since #25 will now be the 1/2 way point, I will make one of the Final bosses as a celebration of sorts.  I'm not sure who since the other final boss will be the final release of the beta game.  My focus is still the website at the moment, but just to fyi you all, it might be a week or two until the next update as I'm eye deep in my other project at the moment.  Stay tuned.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Uche_of_MFG on December 02, 2008, 06:35:25 am
Big change in plans.  Krizalid will be pushed back a bit.  I am confirming number 50.  Since the number of characters in this project keeps going up, I'm sure no one will believe me when I say, "This is it for additions," but 50 is a nice round number for me.

I know I was playing around with idea of Gouki making it in, but he's getting the axe.  I've finally conceptualized Neo-Dio into a format that will work for KOFE.  He will be the alternative final boss.

Since #25 will now be the 1/2 way point, I will make one of the Final bosses as a celebration of sorts.  I'm not sure who since the other final boss will be the final release of the beta game.  My focus is still the website at the moment, but just to fyi you all, it might be a week or two until the next update as I'm eye deep in my other project at the moment.  Stay tuned.
I look forward to it, swipergod. For final bosses, may I suggest the Original Zero?
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on December 02, 2008, 02:13:53 pm
In the early stages of the project, I was going to put Zero in.  I conceptualized his moveset, but since he had no variety of jumping attacks and no ducking attacks, there isn't much I can do with him, so he got nixed.  Depending on what SNK does with him in 2k2 UM and if he gets any new moves, he may trump Nio-Deo and make it in, but that's still a while away.

I will be doing KOFE's Orochi as the next character and wait until the end to see what SNK does and if I feel like changing the second choice for final boss.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Uche_of_MFG on December 02, 2008, 05:54:29 pm
OK, good thinking, swipergod. One more thing, Rugal Bernstein plays like Omega Rugal Bernstein. Was that intentional or was it the fact that nobody made the original Rugal Bernstein from The King of Fighters '98?

Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on December 02, 2008, 07:55:27 pm
Intentional as I wanted to make him more boss like since he's a boss character in KOFE.  Omega Rugal has a lot of unique moves that I though could serve him pretty well (Dark Gravity for example), but I wanted more of a blend than a straight O.Rugal.  If O.Rugal had been a direct translation to KOFE, he'd have been rediculously unbalanced compared to other bosses and characters (idea is he's a strong character, but beatable).

Rugal, so far has been the second hardest character in terms of pure coding, since I did a whole whack of coding for him and a lot of modifications.  Very proud of the way his beta turned out. ;D
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: [SX] on December 02, 2008, 08:34:35 pm
hummm very very great projet  :) more and more good  ;)

we offer our help to do a screenpack for you ... PM sent
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on December 03, 2008, 04:24:27 pm
I have accepted Lucius' gracious offer.  We are working out the details of what the look of the final product will be.  There are some good ideas on the table for sure.  We're talking about some animations and touchin up the lifebars to be more KOF style.  Most of the details will be worked out over PMs, but I will definitely keep you all updated.  Stay tuned.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Uche_of_MFG on December 03, 2008, 08:23:11 pm
Ladies and gentlemen, KOFE has turned into a team-project!!
 :2thumbsup: :afro: :alien: :antlers: :army: :artist: :baby: :bandana: :kugoi: :suttrox: :beatnik2: :biker: :disguise: :elf: :elf: :elvis: :hair: :hair2: :hat: :hat2: :helmet: :indian_brave: :indian_chief: :drummer: :guitarist: :karate: :santa2: :stooge_curly: :stooge_larry: :stooge_moe: :sultan: :nutrox: :borg:<===Fans of KOFE: (wild applause & cheers)
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on December 04, 2008, 02:16:32 am
lol, thanks Uche.

KOFE was already a collaborative effort.  Missfairy developped the AI that I'm currently using and is listed as a co-contributor even though she's no longer active on the project.  [E] has made a large portion of the sexy KO sprites and has done some thorough play testing and will be listed as a associate contributor in the next KOFE release.

I do appreciate the help on the screenpack a lot though.  The beta I was given looks very promising.  It will no doubt be far better than what I've currently got.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on December 07, 2008, 06:38:03 pm
Okay, here's a couple of shots of the basic website design.  Yes it's ugly, simple and you can tell it was done with iweb in like 10 minutes, but it does the job it needs to.  Remember that A, this isn't a part of the game so quality is minimal and B, the site is mainly a place to download the game and characters.

(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj119/swipergod/hme.jpg)
 
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj119/swipergod/inf.jpg)

Anyway, I'm since the only page left to do is the downloads page, I'll be starting Orochi.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Uche_of_MFG on December 07, 2008, 10:11:21 pm
Okay, here's a couple of shots of the basic website design.  Yes it's ugly, simple and you can tell it was done with iweb in like 10 minutes, but it does the job it needs to.  Remember that A, this isn't a part of the game so quality is minimal and B, the site is mainly a place to download the game and characters.

(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj119/swipergod/hme.jpg)
 
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj119/swipergod/inf.jpg)

Anyway, I'm since the only page left to do is the downloads page, I'll be starting Orochi.

 :2thumbsup: :afro: :alien: :antlers: :army: :artist: :baby: :bandana: :kugoi: :suttrox: :beatnik2: :biker: :disguise: :elf: :elf: :elvis: :hair: :hair2: :hat: :hat2: :helmet: :indian_brave: :indian_chief: :drummer: :guitarist: :karate: :santa2: :stooge_curly: :stooge_larry: :stooge_moe: :sultan: :nutrox: :borg:<===Fans of KOFE: (wild applause & cheers)
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on December 08, 2008, 10:02:15 pm
Work has started on Neo-Dio.  Orochi will be pushed to the final release slot.  This means Zero is out.  I just find Neo-Dio more flexible to work with.  Unless SNK does something amazing with Zero in 2k2 UM, that it.  I still haven't completed all the basics yet, so I'm not sure if he's missing any required sprites.  I've given him a dodge where he melts into the ground and pops up further ahead or backwards.  The mechanics are a little different, but the vulnerability is the same.  Call it a final boss speciality.  Orochi's dodge will be similar.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: weakinall on December 09, 2008, 04:01:22 am
support your NEO-DIO,  one of my favorite characters in NBC.
good idea for its "dodge".
expect its new super or max moves and its releasing.

by the way , why not also edit a Shishioh of NBC ?
thanks for your hard work.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: BigBoss on December 09, 2008, 11:08:04 am
You need a better webdesign.


I may be able to spice it up a tad if you want to stick to that design pm me.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Cybaster on December 09, 2008, 11:09:35 am
Read again :
Okay, here's a couple of shots of the basic website design.  Yes it's ugly, simple and you can tell it was done with iweb in like 10 minutes, but it does the job it needs to.  Remember that A, this isn't a part of the game so quality is minimal and B, the site is mainly a place to download the game and characters.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: BigBoss on December 09, 2008, 09:59:01 pm
Read again :
Okay, here's a couple of shots of the basic website design.  Yes it's ugly, simple and you can tell it was done with iweb in like 10 minutes, but it does the job it needs to.  Remember that A, this isn't a part of the game so quality is minimal and B, the site is mainly a place to download the game and characters.

Yes i read that and i was asking if he wanted me to make him one free for the heck of it reread.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Uche_of_MFG on December 09, 2008, 10:13:36 pm
Okay, gentlemen. Let's not fight amongst ourselves.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Dark Symphony on December 10, 2008, 07:40:32 am
I think the website is perfect. I wish more MUGEN websites were that simple and straightforward.

Half the time, I can't even find where to download characters so this is great.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on December 10, 2008, 01:03:19 pm
I'm definitely for a basic and simple website, but I've got to admit that it graphically looks a big steaming pile of you know what, so I've taken BigBoss up on his offer.  It'll still be simple, but hopefully he can a least make the title graphics and whatnot somewhat nicer.  Whenever help is offered, it is always appreciated.

Thanks weakinall.  Neo-Dio is going to be a lot of fun to make.  His basics are already more or less complete.  He'll keep his rush DM (now unblockable) and gain a new DM, SDM and HSDM.  For the most part his special moves will be tweaked for his Final Boss status, but will be more or less the same aside from that.  I didn't make Shishioh because I prefer Neo-Dio more and Dio's got more creative versatility.  The 50th character was a toss up between Dio, Gouki and Zero, but since there's a serious lack of Neo-Dios out there, I thought this would be a good opportunity to create another and he just looks so threatening and Final Boss like.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Uche_of_MFG on December 10, 2008, 07:23:49 pm
Once again I stand by these words:
"This is going to be the most unique Dream Match ever!"
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: BigBoss on December 10, 2008, 08:47:46 pm
I just currently finished my site and am working on the kof site.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Uche_of_MFG on December 11, 2008, 01:30:17 am
I just currently finished my site and am working on the kof site.
Good luck, BigBoss.

Let's hear it for the KOFE Team, everybody.

Team Members:
swipergod
[E]
LaMissfairy
D. Demianoff
Lucius Vorenus
BigBoss

Aren't they a big help? Let's give them a round of applause.
:kugoi: :guitarist: :drummer: :singer: :suttrox: :nutrox: :karate: :bandana: :army: :hair: :hair2: :egypt: :gorgeous: :kid: :hat: :hat2: :stooge_larry: :stooge_moe: :stooge_curly: :indian_brave: :indian_chief: :cowboy: :clown: :ears: :jester: :joker: :juggle: :juggle2:<===audience: (applause)
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Mgbenz on December 11, 2008, 01:40:03 am
You have a great future as an MC for private parties.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Uche_of_MFG on December 11, 2008, 01:43:08 am
You have a great future as an MC for private parties.
Thank you, Mr. Scruffy Detective.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on December 11, 2008, 02:00:19 am
lol.  Well I'm really excited about all the KOFE developments myself, so much so that I put my other project on hold so I could focus more on Mugen.  Version 4 will definitely be the biggest release since the initial release.  Neo-Dio, Andy and Robert, the Kasumi upgrade I've been promising since version 2 and a new screenpack + credits (possibly an intro, but it might get pushed back) to celebrate the KOFE site launch.  The only thing I can ask for now is patience as other team member work their magic.  Everyone's working, but nothing will probably be released until next month at the earliest.  Cheers!
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on December 11, 2008, 03:18:02 am
I started thinking, which I sometimes hate.  I started becoming conflicted with not adding K'9999 into this game.  I will not go over the 50 mark.  I simply won't.  But I'm now considering something I've never considered since I ditched Ryu:  Stopping in the middle of a character and replacing him with another.  I'm conflicted, so I'll let everyone here have their say and help me out:

Neo-Dio (would be a Final Boss)

or

K'9999 (would be a teamless character)

Who would YOU rather see in KOFE?  I'd like to start or resume whichever character on the weekend, so I'll leave this open for a couple days.  Eiji is in this game because of an overwhelming response to add him.  Now people get to have their say again.  Please help me out and vote.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: ~*Ishida-Uryuu*~ on December 11, 2008, 03:23:14 am
Neo-Dio.

K9999 sucks the salt right out of my sweaty nut drip. [/jason]
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: BigBoss on December 11, 2008, 03:32:28 am
Preview for the new website, Still a work in progress but its nifty so far.


(http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/954/previewjz4.png) (http://imageshack.us)




Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on December 11, 2008, 04:48:46 am
Running total:

Neo-Dio = 1
K'9999 = 0

I think it looks great BigBoss.  Thanks again for helping out with this one.  I may start initial work on both Andy and Robert while I wait for the results the Dio-4nine poll.  Rush to get those 3 finished as quickly as possible since the website seems to be progressing and I don't want to lag behind too much.  Please don't forget to vote. :)
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: BigBoss on December 11, 2008, 05:16:54 am
Running total:

Neo-Dio = 1
K'9999 = 0

I think it looks great BigBoss.  Thanks again for helping out with this one.  I may start initial work on both Andy and Robert while I wait for the results the Dio-4nine poll.  Rush to get those 3 finished as quickly as possible since the website seems to be progressing and I don't want to lag behind too much.  Please don't forget to vote. :)

This is one of the projects i am actually looking forward too, glad to help.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Uche_of_MFG on December 11, 2008, 05:40:12 am
Neo-Dio

BigBoss, why is Kusanagi and Wild Wolf on the banner? They are not in the game.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: BigBoss on December 11, 2008, 05:50:32 am
Neo-Dio

BigBoss, why is Kusanagi and Wild Wolf on the banner? They are not in the game.

Thats Garou Terry, and Kusanagi.
Im also pretty sure there both relevant to the King Of Fighters series.

(http://hg101.classicgaming.gamespy.com/fatalfury/garou-terry.png)

Also i was given a picture of Kyo Kusanagi from swiper so i assumed he was in the KOFE Game.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: K.O.D on December 11, 2008, 07:55:35 am
K9999.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Cybaster on December 11, 2008, 09:31:33 am
K9999
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: [SX] on December 11, 2008, 09:38:39 am
K9999

so 3 hit combo  ;P

Neo-dio is not a kof fighter for me (personal opinion)

what about Oswald  ? (KOF XI new fighter incarnation for me  :P)

Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on December 11, 2008, 02:15:29 pm
Current total:

Neo-Dio = 2
K9999 = 3

Both have the potential to be solid characters, but there can only be one.  Oswald and Elizaeth were strongly considered for the project, but I opted to pass in the end.  I could easily have a 64 character game, but I've needed to set limits.  I really didn't want to go past 48, but it's not a huge deal.  Depending on the success of the final product though, I may end up adding a few more characters into the mix.

You'll be happy to know SophieX that I'm starting on Robert today.  I spoke with Thedge and he might be doing the sprites I need for the new Robert stance very soon.  I don't expect him to take too long either.  Since I'll be doing Robert, I'll let the voting go a little longer.

Cheers.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Guilty on December 11, 2008, 04:33:55 pm
Neo-Dio.


K9999 sucks.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: walt on December 11, 2008, 04:41:10 pm
Neo Dio because... He'd make a hell of a boss.

The only good part of K999 would be making him like a Shin version with white hair.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on December 11, 2008, 09:55:10 pm
Current vote

Neo-Dio = 4
K9999 = 3

Starting Robert...


Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: BigBoss on December 11, 2008, 09:57:56 pm
Might as well vote Neo Dio
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Uche_of_MFG on December 12, 2008, 12:17:23 am
I know I have voted already, but I have something to say about Robert. This is practically the most unique version of Robert Garcia I have ever seen!
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on December 12, 2008, 03:26:48 am
Vote tally so far:

Neo-Dio = 5
K9999 = 3

Robert won't have move or anything that you haven't seen before.  He'll just be blended like many of the other characters on the roster.  Mai and Rugal are good examples of this since there are so many version out there.  Robert should have a different feel from the other karate users and '03 hi/low fireball and qcb +k x4 motion really helped I think.  Finishing the non-attack basics today.  Might also do the same for Andy afterward so I can get straight to the coding.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: weakinall on December 12, 2008, 04:46:56 am
Neo-Dio
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Uche_of_MFG on December 12, 2008, 05:27:07 am
K9999 is dragging its feet behind Neo-Dio.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Cybaster on December 12, 2008, 07:27:01 am
How do you guys dare preferring a stupid alien-like guy to the awesome Tetsuo !!?! >:(
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: BigBoss on December 12, 2008, 07:42:33 am
How do you guys dare preferring a stupid alien-like guy to the awesome Tetsuo !!?! >:(

(http://ssusy.hp.infoseek.co.jp/K9999.png)

Hmm because he's nearly the same damn thing last i checked.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: K.O.D on December 12, 2008, 07:53:21 am
Tetsuo is awesome and he has never been in a fighting game before 2k1.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on December 12, 2008, 01:25:16 pm
Neo Dio = 6
K9999 = 3

Well I won't count my chickens before they hatch, but Dio's got a solid lead.  If you're a K9999 fan, now's the time to show it.  We'll make the cutoff Monday.  Just an FYI, if K9999 does win and I go ahead with him, he'd lose the giant gross arm attack.  Feel it's only fair to warn in case that's the reason for K9999 love or hate.

Robert's basics are complete except the special intro.  Gave him a revamped taunt complete with snapping sound.  Oooooo.   I'll finish his basic attacks and throws today and work on Andy over the weekend.  Considering we're only 1/2 through December, there is a strong possibility that they could all be finished for New Year's day.   We'll see what happens.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: [SX] on December 12, 2008, 02:18:27 pm
Robert's basics are complete except the special intro.  Gave him a revamped taunt complete with snapping sound.  Oooooo.   I'll finish his basic attacks and throws today and work on Andy over the weekend.  Considering we're only 1/2 through December, there is a strong possibility that they could all be finished for New Year's day.   We'll see what happens.

NIIIICE !  :) what about Robert's moves ?  i hope he have these air LDM from 2K3 !
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Rikimaru on December 12, 2008, 04:42:37 pm
Only a few things I wanna see...
Heavy D! 'cause he was the ONLY awesome char from the sports team
Rick Strowd from Fatal Fury
Leona needs an SDM where she goes Orochi for a moment.
Kyo needs Kami Kura(not Kami Gomi)
Iori needs his San Shingi no Ni(holds by throat, purple flame pillar)
Saisyu Kusanagi, hes just too awesome
Iori needs to not be on Kyo's row/team :p, It should be Kyo, Benimaru Nikaido, Goro Daimon, and Shingo Yabuki XD
Vanessa could use her teamates Ramon, Seth, and Lin, but you should do those last since nobody cares about them :p
Yashiro, Chris, Shermie, and Goenitz need their team around, especially with them being able to activate Orochi form mid fight >.<;
I'd love to see a special Adel/Rugal intro

Well, goodluck with all this.  XD
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on December 12, 2008, 09:39:50 pm
Neo Dio = 6
K9999 = 3

Robert's HSDM will be a modified version of his '99 air multi kick.

Well I've stated before that you can edit the KOFE character as you see fit if you're not a fan of their current movesets.
Certain characters were excluded and had their moves stolen to fill up the movesets of the others.  Heavy D! and Chris are some of these casualties.
I don't plan on putting effort into creating and editing characters just so they can be filler (characters like Seth are just embarrassing) and I won't be making characters for the sake of team structure.  I'm interested in some characters like Goro, but that's not a certainty and comes after the 50 are complete.
Other characters like Rick Strowd and Hon Fu from other games have been excluded because their sprites don't mix with the KOF sprites well and they're missing certain hit animations and frames.

Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Uche_of_MFG on December 12, 2008, 10:22:27 pm
Neo Dio = 6
K9999 = 3

Robert's HSDM will be a modified version of his '99 air multi kick.

Well I've stated before that you can edit the KOFE character as you see fit if you're not a fan of their current movesets.
Certain characters were excluded and had their moves stolen to fill up the movesets of the others.  Heavy D! and Chris are some of these casualties.
I don't plan on putting effort into creating and editing characters just so they can be filler (characters like Seth are just embarrassing) and I won't be making characters for the sake of team structure.  I'm interested in some characters like Goro, but that's not a certainty and comes after the 50 are complete.
Other characters like Rick Strowd and Hon Fu from other games have been excluded because their sprites don't mix with the KOF sprites well and they're missing certain hit animations and frames.


...and besides the roster has been finalized. No more roster suggestions please and let the KOFE Team finish this project.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: superyuzqy on December 13, 2008, 12:49:52 am
NEODIO, I don't like k9999 ;P
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: BigBoss on December 13, 2008, 11:44:29 am
Neo Dio = 6
K9999 = 3

Robert's HSDM will be a modified version of his '99 air multi kick.

Well I've stated before that you can edit the KOFE character as you see fit if you're not a fan of their current movesets.
Certain characters were excluded and had their moves stolen to fill up the movesets of the others.  Heavy D! and Chris are some of these casualties.
I don't plan on putting effort into creating and editing characters just so they can be filler (characters like Seth are just embarrassing) and I won't be making characters for the sake of team structure.  I'm interested in some characters like Goro, but that's not a certainty and comes after the 50 are complete.
Other characters like Rick Strowd and Hon Fu from other games have been excluded because their sprites don't mix with the KOF sprites well and they're missing certain hit animations and frames.


...and besides the roster has been finalized. No more roster suggestions please and let the KOFE Team finish this project.

Why are you telling the creator no more roster suggestions? None of your post have made much sense anyways reworking some things on the mugen king of fighters edition site.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: GMSpectre on December 13, 2008, 04:15:01 pm
Although it looks like Neo Dio's going to win I'll vote for K9999, the bootleg Tetsuo.

Awesome job so far with everything else you have made for this game, this is my favorite Mugen project.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on December 13, 2008, 06:36:10 pm
Current Tally:

Neo-Dio = 7
K9999 = 4

Thanks GMSpectre.  Still another day and a half of voting left.  In the meantime, I continue to work on Robert and will leave Andy for later.  I should get to Robert's specials today, but I also need to do his stage today, so we'll see.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Uche_of_MFG on December 14, 2008, 03:43:05 am
Will somebody tell me who is Tetsuo?
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: K.O.D on December 14, 2008, 05:01:07 am
http://www.absoluteanime.com/akira/tetsuo.htm (http://www.absoluteanime.com/akira/tetsuo.htm)

Even the voice actor (Nozomu Sasaki) who did Tetsuo did K9999 as well.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on December 14, 2008, 05:18:04 am
Well, not that I'm calling K9999 a lost cause since there's one day left of voting, but I've gone back to Neo-Dio and did a little more work on him, plus I've completed both his stage and Robert's stage.  However, should K9999 pull ahead of the votes by some miracle tomorrow, then I'll throw Neo-Dio into the vault with Ryu, for a post KOFE release.  Both characters are ready for special move programming.

What I could really use help with is if somebody knows how to rip from KOF 98 UM or know somebody who does.  I've been dying to update Kasumi and posted a request here for help, but it hasn't gotten many views.

http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=90759.0 (http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=90759.0)

I know mugenchina has people skilled in this, but I don't know who's doing it now or if there's anyone else.  It'd be great to update Kasumi for the v4 release, but it's nothing urgent.  Cheers.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on December 14, 2008, 06:40:17 pm
Since it's pretty dead right now, I figured I'd just show the progress of the 2 characters I've been working on so far (since I didn't take any pics of Benimaru).  I'll be starting Robert's Specials after lunch.

Please note, despite the following pictures, you can still vote for K9999 if you want him in the game.  Voting still goes until the end of the day today.  He's only trailing by 3.

New characters on the now out of date select screen.  Once SophieX is ready, well show the new one.
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj119/swipergod/title.jpg)

Robert vs Robert '99 style intro.
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj119/swipergod/vsr.jpg)

Robert vs Yuri.  Oh Yuri, will you ever be serious...
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj119/swipergod/vsy.jpg)

Neo-Dio's new victory pose (he needed at least 3 and only had 2)
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj119/swipergod/nwin.jpg)

Still hoping to hear from someone concerning the Kasumi sprites.  Just putting that out there.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on December 15, 2008, 12:01:58 am
Robert's specials are complete.  His hien works exactly like the '03 version, except the weak version only does 3 hits, but pops up the opponent (different animation was used for the final kick).  I'm gonna take a breather and start Neo-Dio's specials on Monday.  I've officially given up on K9999 so the voting's now closed.

From the sounds of things from both SophieX and BigBoss, we might still be on schedule for the launch in the first week or two of Jan.

What you can expect:
-A brand new screenpack from SophieX
-3 New Characters (Robert, Andy and Neo-Dio).  Robert will have his '03 stance, '02 style courtesy of Thedge.
-Major and minor updates to most characters.
-And of course, a website to facilitate downloading, news updates and character updates for future releases. ;)

What I'm hoping to include:
-Kasumi's update with new move from 98 UM.  Just need the sprites for it.
-In game Credits.  This is getting iffy since I know this is going to take a lot of time to do.  Might have to wait until v5.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Rikimaru on December 15, 2008, 05:49:56 pm
So no Saisyuu Kusanagi?  ;_;
Also, something I've noticed is that Kyo doesn't have his QCF(D DF F) K -> K, which was a great Serpent Wave set up.  Any reason to take that out?
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on December 15, 2008, 10:30:31 pm
Sorry about Saisyu.  He, Goro, Heidern and K9999 were all characters I would've liked to add, but they were very difficult to conceptualize and the roster's already full.  I was also considering either Nakoruru or Shiki and of course, Gouki.  When the game's roster is closer to completion.  We'll see if there's room for more, but for now, I make no promises.

Kyo still has the d,df,f k +k move, but it's now done by simply doing f +wk.  I've removed the overhead kick as a command move and it's now a unique chain move only.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Uche_of_MFG on December 16, 2008, 12:13:57 am
:( on Bad news; :) on Good News
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: [SX] on December 16, 2008, 02:59:43 pm
...I was also considering either Nakoruru or Shiki and of course, Gouki.

 :o please no capcom chars !!! it's a SNK KOF game ! ( playmore is just tolerate  :P)

 ;D
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: la;MISS~FairY-! on December 16, 2008, 09:00:49 pm
I wonder if somebody made sprites for NeoDio's inner beast DM from world heroes with his SNK sprites. Hmmm.

It would be really interesting if you could add that, though. NGBC butchered the fuck out of that DM.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on December 17, 2008, 04:07:08 am
Hi Missy!  I missed my favoritest Mugen buddy of all time!  Diggin' the new profile pic!  Glad to see you're still checking in on the game every now and again.  Couldn't have gotten this far without ya.

I agree that the inner beast was freakin' awesome, but it doesn't seem like there are many Dio's out there, just Jin's or copies of Jin's.  So I don't think there are many sprite edits.  Neo-Dio actually needs Blue Mary arm and leg snap animations, so those have to come first.  He should still be interesting with the new DMs I'm giving him.  Make him a really fearful final boss.  Give Chizuru a run for her money. :)

SophieX, don't worry, I won't be adding Gouki now.  I was just throwing names out there at the time.  I'm holding off on even guessing if there'll be any more characters until 2k2 UM comes out.  I really want to see what they do. 

Actually I was playing 2000 the other day and really got into Lin.  If combined with some of Lon move, he might make for an interesting character.  He's got a ton of animation.  But, we'll see.  No more talk of additional characters for now.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: la;MISS~FairY-! on December 17, 2008, 06:46:13 pm
Thank you :)<3

Glad to see things are doing so well!

I hope Dio is done soony. I'd love to see what take you have on him. :D
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Uche_of_MFG on December 18, 2008, 12:39:11 am
Thank you :) <3

Glad to see things are doing so well!

I hope Dio is done soony. I'd love to see what take you have on him. :D
...and while you're at it, can you please update the AI on the fighters as well?
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on December 18, 2008, 02:44:09 am
LaMissFairy might do a few characters should time permit, but to revamp all is a lot of time I doubt she has.  I'll be happy if she's able to help in anyway she can, but expecting her to jump back on full time is not realistic.  Even part time isn't likely.  More like casual.  A lot of people will tell you that I'm nuts for modding as many characters as I am for this game.  It's a lot of work, so it's understandable.

Anyway.  Neo-Dio's specials are complete.  I'll start on his DMs tomorrow.  I expect a finish at some point over the weekend.  Thedge is currently working on Robert's new stance.  I'll finish up Robert before Christmas hopefully.  I'll start Andy first thing after the New Year and the site will launch shortly thereafter.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Rikimaru on December 20, 2008, 07:10:22 am
If I may make a greedy request, though it pains me to see Saisyu missing, could Leona still get an SDM or an HSDM form of "Rebel Spark" where she temporarily goes Orochi like she does in KoF98.  And another request if your willing to induldge, could it be possible to make Kyo's 182 Shiki's lp form do the KoF99 version?  Just throwing out ideas to help make the game better.

Also, another character idea if you get an open spot:  Reiji Oogami.  He came out in KoF EX2 but was a surprisingly amazing character.  Though he had the same feel as Chizuru, he was distinctly different and his character itself was great.  If you could manage to get some decent sprites for the character, I'd probably pay real money to see him in this kind of game.

Also, something I've noticed is that the AI on Hard 8 are cheaper than they are skillfull.  Every person I fight(especially Mai), all the enemy ever does is roll.  Its gotten to the point where I don't even enjoy fighting Mai anymore because it feels like I'm playing against the chumps I know in my town that hardly use the directional buttons and just roll everywhere so I just press F1 everytime she comes up.

Potential Bugs:  Kyo's sp Night Flare doesn't seem to be counterattacking
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on December 20, 2008, 05:14:58 pm
I'm sorry Rikimaru, I don't mean to sound rude here, but "better" is a relative term.  Leona is controlling her Orochi powers in KOFE storywise.  I didn't make a SDM version of rebel spark since the explosion effects is the same.  It doesn't make sense for me that her howl will suddenly make the bomb more powerful and I liked the SDM explosion of the anti-grav spark better.  Plus it separates her gameplay wise from characters like Iori and Robert who have SDM versions of a ranbu style attack (dash and attack DM) by making her SDM an anti air attack. 

Kyo's 99 version of the 182 Shiki looks weaker than the SK version the Iron Dash since that move powers the opponent into the air first and then blows them up with an exploding punch.  The animation used is relatively the same as well and I'm trying to avoid re-using animations when possible.

I can look into Mai's AI.  MissFairy developed a code later on that cut down on rolling for certain characters.  The problem is the character may not compensate well without it (making a gap in the AI that might not be filled properly).  I'll test it out.

Kyo's Night Flare is a type 3 counter.  Type 3 counters only currently counter moves from standing positions (ie they don't counter air attacks and crouching attacks).  This is to balance out the fact that they still attack if they miss, leaving the counterer less open to attacks.  Krizalid and Xiangfei will also have type 3 counters.  The counter animation is at the beginning, not while the attack is coming out.  All counters in KOFE have 4 ticks of vulnerability prior to triggering the counter to make their use more strategic and less spammable.

Neo-Dio's DMs and SDM are complete.  Since Dio has taken Zero's spot and needs to equal Orochi in power, I've given him Zero's full screen DM.  His DM projectile is also a beam, making it way harder to avoid.  The DMs really give him a Final Boss feel.  Other changes that I didn't take photos of include the 5 spike projectiles he shoots out now form a wall going up and down as opposed to just up.  His grabbing helper now rises from P2 x position, making it harder to avoid.  It's also a grab so you can't roll away from it.  Anyway, enjoy the pics:

Neo-Dio's new intro.  He shows off his power as electricity surges through his body
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj119/swipergod/dio1.jpg)

Neo-Dio's new DM projectile.  It cuts through all DM projectiles except HSDMs like Kaiser Wave
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj119/swipergod/dio2.jpg)

Neo-Dio steals Zero's full screen DM.  I've balanced the move so the hits are more reliable (there are 8)
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj119/swipergod/dio3.jpg)
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: la;MISS~FairY-! on December 20, 2008, 06:10:07 pm
Also, something I've noticed is that the AI on Hard 8 are cheaper than they are skillfull.  Every person I fight(especially Mai), all the enemy ever does is roll.  Its gotten to the point where I don't even enjoy fighting Mai anymore because it feels like I'm playing against the chumps I know in my town that hardly use the directional buttons and just roll everywhere so I just press F1 everytime she comes up.
That's weird. That was supposed to have been fixed a long time ago.   :S

I do know my AI rolls more than KOF AI did (since the little it rolled at all was very thoughtlessly). Maybe it's just that? Not sure.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on December 21, 2008, 08:02:39 am
You fixed it for newer characters, but older characters like King and Mai, still have the old rolling code.  Not a big deal, I'll get to it before v4's release.

Neo-Dio's moveset is complete.  Expect a vid tomorrow.  His HSDM is too complicated to show images of.  The idea is he paralyzes you with his shadow (yes like Zero), then dashes in to do the Hibiki style fatal slash, resulting in bloody death.  The move is instant kill.  The shadow cover the length of the screen.  It cannot be rolled past.  I can only be avoided by jumping, but it's extremely fast.  It's the HSDM that makes the Final Bosses so powerful.  With the proper AI, he'll be a tough cookie.  Since Neo-Dio has never appeared in a KOF game, he's KOFE's official End Boss.  Orochi's just a bonus fight.

I'm gonna take a quick day or two break to start prepping the site, then I'll come back to finish Robert.  With those 2 done, I'll go back and touch up a few more characters, before getting to Andy.  I'll launch the website after that and release the 3.  Keep checking back.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: RunningWild on December 21, 2008, 09:00:08 am
With Neo-Dio in this game, you should throw in Hanzo and Fuma as guest characters. Maybe they could be hidden or something.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: The Railgunner on December 21, 2008, 09:37:41 am
...I was also considering either Nakoruru or Shiki and of course, Gouki.

 :o please no capcom chars !!! it's a SNK KOF game ! ( playmore is just tolerate  :P)

 ;D


Don't listen to him, he's hearing voices in his head! Put in as many Capcom characters as possible!(jk)

Though, if Akuma were in the game, then Neo-Dio's HSDM could be avoided with an Ashura Senkuu.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on December 21, 2008, 04:55:08 pm
True.  Teleports and moves with long invincibility frames will avoid the shadow since it only lasts 8 ticks on the ground.  It's a great move to do as someone's landing from a jump since Dio is completely invincible when the shadow is coming out.

Dio's vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UF4GnannX4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UF4GnannX4)

I'm passing Dio along to MissFairy for coding, so hopefully he'll become Final Boss worthy.

Actually Wild Tengu, that's not a bad idea.  Maybe I'll add another 2 slots (although if I made bonus non-kof characters Nakoruru would be front in the running).  This would be a post 50 thing though, so I'm not making any commitments at this point.

I continue Robert today.  I expect his DMs to be completed later tonight.  Cheers.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Uche_of_MFG on December 21, 2008, 05:19:50 pm
I thought Neo-Dio had his own DMs, SDMs, & HSDMs.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on December 21, 2008, 05:25:02 pm
He does.  Only the rush DM is from World Heroes/NG Battle Coliseum.  Neo-Dio never had a beam attack, a full screen attack or a shadow/kill slash attack.  Those are all my gifts to him to make him most fearful and boss worthy. 

I'll definitely take it as a compliment that is was difficult for you to tell that they were KOFE exclusive moves though.  Means I blended them in well.  Thanks. ;)
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Rikimaru on December 22, 2008, 02:26:42 am
I'd enjoy seeing Moriya or Kaede from The Last Blade if you'd throw in non-KoF characters.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Alkanphel on December 22, 2008, 11:06:42 pm
True.  Teleports and moves with long invincibility frames will avoid the shadow since it only lasts 8 ticks on the ground.  It's a great move to do as someone's landing from a jump since Dio is completely invincible when the shadow is coming out.

Dio's vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UF4GnannX4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UF4GnannX4)

I'm passing Dio along to MissFairy for coding, so hopefully he'll become Final Boss worthy.

Actually Wild Tengu, that's not a bad idea.  Maybe I'll add another 2 slots (although if I made bonus non-kof characters Nakoruru would be front in the running).  This would be a post 50 thing though, so I'm not making any commitments at this point.

I continue Robert today.  I expect his DMs to be completed later tonight.  Cheers.

Wow, that Dio looks awesome, love his new intro.  The beam super is way better than that fireball thing from NGBC(reminds me of Guyver's chest cannon thing oddly, which is awesome), the black hole super oddly fits Dio VERY well, and that shadow blade HSDM rocks too(much much cooler than that weird morriganesque move he had with Geegus).  One suggestion I have is to maybe alter the ending to that rush super so when he does that uppercut that launches you maybe have it launch you up much higher, so that way they really fall down hard onto Dio's head spikes to really look like he's impaling them(maybe have a spurt of blood too like Sam Shodown style to sorta add to the brutality of the attack).  The coolest part of that super in World Heroes besides that beast form he had was also how brutal it looked, cuz he just knocks you way up then you fall right onto him like a bed of spikes, it was awesome. 

Do you plan on using his theme from NGBC or another one?  A more sinister theme may fit him more, since he has a rather demonic appearance and all lol
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on December 23, 2008, 10:06:09 pm
Thanks KaiserPhoenix.  The blood's kept to a minimum in this game so that Dio's moves with the super blood spill makes way more vicious.  I'm using the AST version of NGBC.  Keeping the music within the AST SNK realm.

Robert's coming along, but I'm gonna take a breather for Christmas.  That's it for now.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Uche_of_MFG on December 24, 2008, 01:56:26 am
Merry Christmas, KOFE Team. :santa: :reindeer:
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on December 24, 2008, 10:34:04 pm
Well, Robert was corrupted for no reason whatsoever.  I'm pretty pissed.  This is the second time this has happened.  I think it's a glitch with Fighter Factory.  The Backup files that was in the folder belonged to Ryo which made no sense whatsoever.  I'm going to deal with the website right now.  Maybe I'll do the launch instead of starting Robert anew tomorrow.  I'm pretty mad since I had to do some of my own sprite editing and all that stuff is now deleted.  I'll pick him up again in the new year.

Merry Christmas to all.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on December 26, 2008, 05:04:24 pm
So I couldn't help getting Robert back to where he was.  I'm 2 specials away now.  Shame that I lost 2 days though.  He'd have already been finished by now...

Worked on the website, fixing little spacing issues etc...  I'm just touching up the downloads page.  Will probably need BigBoss' help for that.  I wouldn't be surprised if I launch the site on the 3rd or 4th of Jan.

Hope you're all enjoying the holidays.  Cheers.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Uche_of_MFG on December 28, 2008, 04:38:59 am
:santa: :reindeer:
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on December 28, 2008, 07:06:18 pm
Thanks Uche.  I hope you're enjoying the holidays.

Robert's HSDM is complete, so all that's left is to do his DM ranbu and SDM ranbu (I'm coding them so they bind as opposed to hit).  I'll post vids soon.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Uche_of_MFG on December 30, 2008, 08:55:29 pm
Thanks Uche.  I hope you're enjoying the holidays.

Robert's HSDM is complete, so all that's left is to do his DM ranbu and SDM ranbu (I'm coding them so they bind as opposed to hit).  I'll post vids soon.
Boy, do you work quick. One day you lose Robert as well as all of your hard work on him; the next thing we know, your nearly complete.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: superyuzqy on December 31, 2008, 03:37:38 am
take it easy. Everything will be fine ;) Good luck!
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on January 02, 2009, 05:50:44 pm
Thanks for the support guys.

Big Update:

Website is now ready enough for viewing. 

http://mugekofe.web44.net/ (http://mugekofe.web44.net/)

It just gives an idea of what's going on with the project right now (a kind of KOFE central).  There's no forums or anything since that will all stay here.  The links for downloading aren't up yet, but I'll keep you posted as things start to finalize.  The download section itself will have the characters broken into teams (which it isn't currently).  Website should be up to 100% in another week or so.

I've posted some more sprites to be shared from the project done by myself:

http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=91908.0 (http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=91908.0)

Should give an idea of what Robert's new HSDM is.  Thedge let me know that it shouldn't be long now before the new Robert stance is complete.  I'll hold off on posting a video until I've added the new stance in.  Other than that Robert is done.  So should be starting Andy soon.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Uche_of_MFG on January 02, 2009, 10:40:30 pm
Thanks for the support guys.

Big Update:

Website is now ready enough for viewing. 

http://mugekofe.web44.net/ (http://mugekofe.web44.net/)

It just gives an idea of what's going on with the project right now (a kind of KOFE central).  There's no forums or anything since that will all stay here.  The links for downloading aren't up yet, but I'll keep you posted as things start to finalize.  The download section itself will have the characters broken into teams (which it isn't currently).  Website should be up to 100% in another week or so.

I've posted some more sprites to be shared from the project done by myself:

http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=91908.0 (http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=91908.0)

Should give an idea of what Robert's new HSDM is.  Thedge let me know that it shouldn't be long now before the new Robert stance is complete.  I'll hold off on posting a video until I've added the new stance in.  Other than that Robert is done.  So should be starting Andy soon.
:afro: :bandana: :singer: :guitarist: :drummer: :nutrox: :suttrox: :karate: :kugoi: :army: :stooge_larry: :stooge_moe: :stooge_curly: :hat: :hat2: :chef: :egypt: :balloon: :balloon2: :balloon3: :gorgeous: :hair: :hair2: :kid: :baby: <==KOFE Fans: (wild applause)
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: [SX] on January 02, 2009, 10:48:19 pm
simple and nice website  :)

for the sp we don't have many time at the moment sorry sorry ... but we can accelerate this weekend  ;P
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on January 03, 2009, 06:47:31 pm
After a quick discussion with SX, I've decided that I'll start uploading characters (like Neo-Dio and Robert) before the new Screenpack is completed.  The KOFE v4 fullgame upload will wait until they're done, so there doesn't have to be as much pressure.  I have lots of rips I'll need to give them as well.  So it could be awhile.

In the meantime, some good news:  I've discovered Ahuron's Billy 03 and it has tones of edits.  Save for a couple of victory poses, it's all I need for Billy, so I'll be adding '03 look Billy to KOFE instead of the 97-02 version I had planned.  Personally, I love the new WA look to that old RB look anyway.  It'll go good with Ryuji's '03 look.  Billy isn't planned until some time after #30, but I thought I'd just let you all know.

I've fixed several game/character issues and posted them in the news section of the KOFE site.  I plan on finishing a few more by the end of today.  Uploads to the site will probably start later on in the week, but should be done by the weekend.  I'll start working on Andy tonight or tomorrow.  Once he's done, I'm gonna take a breather from characters and focus on v4's release.

Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on January 04, 2009, 10:25:53 pm
I've completed all of Andy's non-attacking basics.  I'm using TB's Andy which was missing a lot of hitstates including diagup animations and lying face down animations.  Didn't know of another 98-00 styled Andy out there though so I use what I have.  His stage and music are also done.

I've also been working on finishing the last of the glitch issues.  Noticed some bigger state conflicts brought up buy Yuri's multislap move.  Joe and Rugal's helpers are the only helper issues left that I currently know of.  Once all the glitches are done I will start the uploading process.  To shrink the character packs, there will no longer be a pdf added to the character only downloads.  It can only be downloaded via system download, fullgame download or the separate pdf download.  I'm also lessening the music bitrate from 320 to 192, which should cut the music size in half.

I'll upload Krauser first since he has been the fighter with the most fixes.  If you play simul a lot, I suggest downloading his update which fixes the huge Gigatic Cyclone glitch he had.  Look for him in the next couple of days.  MissFairy is working on Dio's AI.  Once it's done, I'll package him up as well.  Cheers.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Uche_of_MFG on January 04, 2009, 11:51:39 pm
1st Team complete: Sub-Boss Team
2nd Team complete: Art of Fighting Team
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on January 05, 2009, 03:07:54 am
I can't see Andy taking longer than a week to finish.  I've finished off his basic attacks already.  I'm gonna take a break from him for a couple of days and work on the PDF and Vanessa's sexy ko fix.

On the bad news front, the whole reason I was looking for a website was to upload files for people to download.  Now I have a site, but the limit is 5 megs per file, which is far too small.  I'll probably end up uploading everthing to filejockey and link everything to the site.  It's not ideal, but at least there will be one central site for everything. 
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Uche_of_MFG on January 05, 2009, 05:59:26 am
I can't see Andy taking longer than a week to finish.  I've finished off his basic attacks already.  I'm gonna take a break from him for a couple of days and work on the PDF and Vanessa's sexy KO fix.

On the bad news front, the whole reason I was looking for a website was to upload files for people to download.  Now I have a site, but the limit is 5 megs per file, which is far too small.  I'll probably end up uploading everything to filejockey and link everything to the site.  It's not ideal, but at least there will be one central site for everything. 
:( on bad news, worse off >:( at bad news.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on January 08, 2009, 04:44:10 am
Sorry for the lack of updates.  Been pretty busy since the last weekend with non-mugen stuff.  I did post the first upload on the website.  It's the PDF which includes the movelists of the new characters.  I need to update Mai, Joe and Terry for their special intros with Andy.  Neo-Dio is waiting on AI and Robert is awaiting his new stance sprites.  The rest will start being uploaded in a day or two.  I'm just working on finishing Vanessa's sexy ko fix.  I'm tearing up her pants a bit to make it more King-like.  The remaining fixes that I wanted to do for v4 were completed.  I'll pick up on Andy over the weekend.  Cheers.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on January 09, 2009, 02:08:42 am
I've finished Vanessa's sexy KO and have posted her, Krauser, Geese and Yuri up on the website ready for downloading.  These were the characters that had the biggest updates (although all characters have had minor ones).  Joe also had a big update, but I'm not posting him until I've done his special intro with Andy.

If you don't know what website I'm talking about, check my sig.

Since these are just character updates, I won't be posting in the release section.  I'll start posting more tomorrow.  Try to get about 1/2 uploaded.  No word yet on how the team's progress is going, I'll check in with them tomorrow.  Later.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Uche_of_MFG on January 09, 2009, 03:38:19 am
I've finished Vanessa's sexy KO and have posted her, Krauser, Geese and Yuri up on the website ready for downloading.  These were the characters that had the biggest updates (although all characters have had minor ones).  Joe also had a big update, but I'm not posting him until I've done his special intro with Andy.

If you don't know what website I'm talking about, check my sig.

Since these are just character updates, I won't be posting in the release section.  I'll start posting more tomorrow.  Try to get about 1/2 uploaded.  No word yet on how the team's progress is going, I'll check in with them tomorrow.  Later.
Now that is how to get people attracted to a website, swipergod.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on January 10, 2009, 04:23:27 pm
Don't worry, more are coming later on today.  I'll upload 4, finish up Andy's Special Intros and then upload Joe, Terry and Mai.  I've finished all of Andy's other basics.  Andy's SP throw slams opponents face down as it does in real KOF games.  You'd be hard pressed to find an Andy that does that currently for regular Mugen.  Here's a pic:

The benifits of making a full game
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj119/swipergod/and.jpg)

I haven't heard anything yet from the rest of the team, so I can't give an update there.  I'm hoping to have most characters up by the end of the weekend.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on January 10, 2009, 11:52:04 pm
5 more characters are up now.  Ryo has new animation for his SDM.  Mr. Big's stages has been fixed so it doesn't reset after every KO.  Chizuru and Angel are also up.  I've uploaded Joe as well.  Two of his animations were missing his armbands so I added those and I've fixed his HSDM so it acts like a projectile.  It'll now lose out to Kaiser wave, but should still eat up most anything else and the damage is more consistent.

I continue to work on Andy's special intros.  Hopefully I can upload a few more people today and start working on Andy's specials tomorrow.

Here's where the team is at:  Missfairy is about 1/2 done Neo-Dio's AI, SophieX is finding time hard to come by so we'll push the new screenpack to the next KOFE release (v5) so there's no pressure on them.  Thedge is just touching up details on Robert new stance.  A release next week is possible.

More as it comes.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on January 11, 2009, 06:44:57 pm
Andy's Specials are done.  I'll probably finish his DMs tonight.  Unfortunately uploadjockey is down.  I hope it's fixed soon so I can upload the rest of the characters.  I need to reupload Geese and Ryo and I caught errors in the PDF, so I'll have to reupload that as well.  Here's a couple more pics.

I'll kill you Geese!  Hrmph, come on!
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj119/swipergod/mugen0-1.jpg)

Hishoken '96 is Andy's SP hishoken.  Geki is now a DM.
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj119/swipergod/mugen2.jpg)
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Dark Symphony on January 11, 2009, 07:47:09 pm
Could be my computer, but the site doesn't seem to be working... as far as downloads go.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on January 11, 2009, 09:05:29 pm
Yes the uploadjockey site is still down.  I'm thinking of just uploading to megauploads unless someone has a better site.  Filefront doesn't work because people in Asia seem to not be able to download from there.  I'll give it another day.

Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on January 12, 2009, 01:27:25 am
The uploading site is up and running again.  I've uploaded the fixed version of Geese, Ryo and Joe (he had a helper glitch before).  I'll upload Terry, Mai, Kyo, Iori and the fixed pdf before I go to sleep.

Here's a pic of Andy's SDM Geki Hishoken.  It's actually Kikosho, but since Chun Li isn't in this game I figure that SVC anim was up for grabs.  Nothing fancy.  Just creates an SDM wall.  I'll do his HSDM tomorrow and post a vid by Tuesday.

Geki Hishooooooooooooooken!
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj119/swipergod/mugen4.jpg)
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on January 13, 2009, 02:52:53 am
Andy's vid:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyqOBIY4onc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyqOBIY4onc)

I'll upload the remaining old characters in the next 2 days or so.  Andy will join them.  Neo-Dio and Robert will follow shortly.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Uche_of_MFG on January 13, 2009, 03:30:30 pm
Man, do you work fast, swipergod!
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on January 14, 2009, 02:18:28 am
:)  Well I'm gonna slow down for a bit after the fullgame is uploaded.  Take a week or 2 breather before jumping on Krizalid.

Andy is released.  You can download him at the website.  Been about a month since the last release.  Don't think I'll be posting on the release thread.  I'm pretty sure that people who are waiting for downloads check here anyway and will probably frequent the site from time to time.

All other characters are up except for Neo-Dio and Robert who are still awaiting final touches from KOFE team members.

I'll throw up the system tomorrow.  The full game will go up when Robert and Dio are ready for downloading.  Cheers.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Uche_of_MFG on January 14, 2009, 04:25:27 am
:)  Well I'm gonna slow down for a bit after the fullgame is uploaded.  Take a week or 2 breather before jumping on Krizalid.

Andy is released.  You can download him at the website.  Been about a month since the last release.  Don't think I'll be posting on the release thread.  I'm pretty sure that people who are waiting for downloads check here anyway and will probably frequent the site from time to time.

All other characters are up except for Neo-Dio and Robert who are still awaiting final touches from KOFE team members.

I'll throw up the system tomorrow.  The full game will go up when Robert and Dio are ready for downloading.  Cheers.
Speaking of which, do you have Robert's video on YouTube yet?
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on January 15, 2009, 10:02:38 pm
Not yet since the new stance isn't completed yet.  I'd like the vid to show the new stance.

I'm taking a breather and waiting for the last 2 characters to go up.  I'll jump on Kriz at the end of the month.  I'll post here when Dio and Robert are ready.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on January 17, 2009, 05:26:02 pm
Robert: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WAgLNxi9Eo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WAgLNxi9Eo)

Robert's ready for downloading on the KOFE site.  Thedge has done a fantastic job with the new stance.  Here's a pic:

(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj119/swipergod/rstand.jpg)

Andy's also been updated to fix a few glitches I've caught.  Once Neo-Dio's AI is completed, I'll post him and the full game up on the site.  I think before I start working on Krizalid, I'm going to do the in game credits.  I really want them in there to showcase everyone's hard work in game.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Uche_of_MFG on January 18, 2009, 01:56:27 am
Dy-No-Mite!!!! :woot: :woot:
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: walt on January 20, 2009, 02:34:17 am
Tell Thedge that looks hella sexy.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on January 23, 2009, 01:07:46 pm
Hi everyone.  I'm taking my partial break now, which explains the lack of updates, but there's a couple things to fill you in on.

First, MissFairy thinks Dio's AI should be completed by the weekend.  He'll be posted as soon as that happens.

The other big piece of news is that Wolf over at Mugen China has provided me with Kasumi '98's sprite sheet (yay!).  Super big thanks to Wolf for helping me out.  The reason the spritesheet isn't an official release yet is due to color separation problems the Mugen China team's been having with certain characters (Kasumi's projectiles are all skin colored for example).  Anyway, this mean I'll be able to create Kasumi's new ('98) Anti-Air projectile and remove her current Anti-Air attack.  There's a few sprites to modify, but I'll see what I can do this weekend. 

The fullgame will be released on the website once these modifications are done.  I'll keep you posted.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Bastard Mami on January 23, 2009, 04:01:37 pm
That sounds good, I will be atent. I also plan to test more when there is a newer official full release.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Rikimaru on January 23, 2009, 08:59:49 pm
Lack of Chris makes me sad.  T_T  Also, something that occured to me(dunno how I missed it) was Rugal's lack of Kaiser Wave, which goes against the ideas that Rugal was founded upon.  When Rugal came out in '94, he was supposed to be the ultimate boss having learned the arts of Hakkyokuseiken and Stroheim, it was supposed to be like fighting Geese+Krauser but worse.  Just voicing a thought.  Also, not sure if this was intentional but Jhun's Tiger Ambush Attack catchs out even while rolling and the game isn't picking up my double half-circles and I know it isn't just me, after I noticed they werent picking up I jumped over to MugenChina's KoFZ and they worked just fine sooo....yeah.... XD
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on January 23, 2009, 10:34:15 pm
As always [E], you play testing and ensuing comments will be most appreciated.  I haven't been able to play test the newer characters as much as the older ones, so an infinite or two may have snuck in.

Rikimaru, I'm sorry, but the roster is locked.  For Chris, Krizalid will be gaining his Orochi fireball, Kyo already has serpent wave, Yashiro's moveset is already in the same vein as some of Kris's moves.  There's already plenty of teleporting characters.  And Xiangfei's SDM will be similar to O. Chris' ball DM.  So there'll be plenty of influence from Chris even though he'll only appear in Orochi's intro.  Rugal doesn't have a traditional Kaiser Wave, it's now the fireball that comes out of the reflect, but he still has it.  I'm not giving moves to characters just for the sake of giving them moves.  I saw more benefit in giving Rugal a DM fireball than just giving him a big normal fireball like I gave to Takuma.  Jhun's DM is a leaping grab, so it is supposed to grab out of rolls.  It's slow, so I had to give it some edge.

I'll take a look at the hcb x2 commands.  Sometimes it's where you put it in order sequence with other command moves in the cmd, or that the move is too tight (the input time might be too quick).  I'll check it out.

On to Kasumi...
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on January 24, 2009, 03:42:19 pm
Here's Kasumi's '98 anti air slasher converted to '99.  As with the last conversion I did, there's nothing I can really do about the pants.  Still, when using it in game you hardly notice.  Since this move is ripped from a non neogeo system game, I couldn't use the debug or frame by frame pausing to get an accurate animation output.  So I guessed.  I think it looks pretty good though.  The major reason for the move change was to rebalance Kasumi, who feels very unbalanced currently with her old anti-air pop up attack.

vid:
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=R2NC5O7PLq0 (http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=R2NC5O7PLq0)

pic:
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj119/swipergod/kasp.jpg)

I'll let everyone know when Dio is done and the complete new game is ready for downloading.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Cybaster on January 24, 2009, 03:51:56 pm
Nice, I'll be waiting for it. :)

BTW, it's possible to get accurate animation output by recording the game in 60fps, then by playing the video frame by frame. Dunno if you have access to the game to record it though.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: K.O.D on January 24, 2009, 03:53:35 pm
There's an easy way to get 100% accurate timing from PS2 KoF games (XI, 98 UM, NGBC, etc.) using the PCSX2 emulator (I learnt this from Vans myself)

1.Limit maximum FPS to 60.
2.Use either the GSdx 0.1.13 or ZeroGS KOSMOS graphics plugin.
3.Press F12 during gameplay and use Microsoft Video 1 (GSdx gives a Save To option while ZeroGS saves in emu folder)
4.Press F12 again to stop recording.

Use any video editor with a frame step option (eg. Virtual Dub) to step frames.


I was typing this before Cybaster posted :P
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on January 24, 2009, 04:13:28 pm
I heard that some game don't play well on PS2 emulators.  Either that or they need bios updates for newer games.  Does PCSX2 play UM?  EBgames says UM won't be available in Canada until March (I'm ripping my hair out over that).  When I get it, I can see if I can modify the animation to equal it.  Won't be exact since '96 Kasumi has more frames in her slash than '99 Kasumi.  I'll have to compensate by increasing/decreasing ticks.  Thanks for the info though.

Kasumi's fix has been uploaded to the site (for those who won't be downloading the new fullgame).  I don't necessarily recommend the fullgame download, unless you haven't been keeping up with character updates, since character bug fixes has been all that's really changed.  Fair to say that there's been A LOT of character upgrades and fixes, but the system itself has no new features.  SophieX' new SP is set for the next upgrade and the in-game credits have been pushed to the next upgrade as well.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Bastard Mami on January 24, 2009, 04:29:58 pm
You can divide the animations in 3 parts, prehit frames, hit frames and Idle frames, as long as the timing of those parts match, the gameplay will be good; after you match that timing you only need to edit the individual frames so the move looks fluid.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on January 24, 2009, 08:59:18 pm
Right now it's running off the same animation/hit pattern as the regular piled hitter.  Everything down to the number of frames and the triggers.  Weak goes nowhere and is fast Strong takes a step forward and is slower.  Both cannot be air blocked.  Until I get UM though, this is the best I can do for now.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on January 25, 2009, 08:11:02 pm
Neo-Dio and the Full Game are ready for downloading at the site: http://mugekofe.web44.net/ (http://mugekofe.web44.net/)

The Full Game is split into 3 parts.

Part 1: Game System with all characters and stages (90-ish Megs)
Part 2: Sound folder 1 (60-ish Megs)
Part 3: Sound folder 2 (70-ish Megs)

You will need to be able to unzip 7z files to access part 1 though.  I know it's zipped within  a rar file, but uploadjockey doesn't allow 7z files to be uploaded and I needed to zip as 7z to compress the game under 100 Megs.

Neo-Dio's AI is still being worked on by MissFairy.  I've only created a placeholder AI, so people could start downloading the full game now to take pressure off MissFairy.  When she finishes, the update will be uploaded to the site.

As a completely and utterly useless Easter Egg, I've given Andy, Mai's theme and given Mai the Image Album version of her Dragon God theme.  Exclusive to the full game download only (whoop-di-freakin'-do!).
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: YagamiC4 on January 27, 2009, 03:58:57 am
Hey swipergod:

I'm loving the project so far.

I was a little uncomfortable with Iori at first, but I actually really like what you did by limiting his front-lp combo; making it a follow-up-only to close lk balances him out really well.

I mentioned it a while ago, but the garou super sparks are still partially cut-off at the bottom.  On top of that to be honest, they don't fit too well, which is a shame because game-play wise everything is balanced and fits beautifully.  I would love to see kof 98 (that would be amazing) or kof xi super sparks in their place... but that's just me.  ;)
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on January 27, 2009, 10:00:05 am
Thanks C4.  I think the unique chain system really does help maintain balance, while allowing players to get their combo fill.  The super spark fix is in the works for a future release (it's on the to do list on my website). 

A few people have mentioned their preference of KOF sparks, but to switch them over at this point would require fixes to the timing of a lot of DMs.  Plus I like the fact that the high level DM you're performing, the more risk you'll be taking because the pause is longer and allow your opponent more time to think up a counter if you wiff.  I do like the Battle Coliseum sparks.  I'll think about it.

I've corrected K's juggling glitch and a glitch I found with Kim after being thrown by Andy's punch throw.  Those two characters will be updated, but I'm waiting to see if there's more fixes to be done before I upload them to the site.  MissFairy's still working on Neo-Dio as well.

In the meantime.  I think most of KOFE is holding its own right now with 27 characters, so I'm going to take a longer hiatus for the moment.  I'll still be around for character fixes and stuff, but I won't be starting anything new for about a month.  I really need the break.  Keep playing and let me know what else needs fixing.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Mineko C. Lucky on January 28, 2009, 06:13:22 am
This Full Game is... Superb!!
I can see that this game has been put in a hefty bulk of effort. However, I suggest that you should also update the first page, for convinience.
I did not see all the posts, but does Iori and Kyo have a special intro against each other?
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Uche_of_MFG on January 28, 2009, 05:03:19 pm
When you return, swipergod, please fix Yuri Sakazaki. She spams her grab and mulit-slap attack (I don't know what it is called.).
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Rikimaru on January 28, 2009, 08:45:45 pm
I like the game a whole lot but one thing caught my eye; Kaiser Wave!  ITS BEAUTIFUL!  Thank you soo much for doing Kaiser Wave great justice, I cannot wait to see your adjustments to Orochi, Krizalid, and Goenitz.  Just a minor comment, I know versions of Shermie, Chris, and Yashiro have the ability to turn Orochi for a short time for 1 special bar, is it possible you could be creative and think of something that involves Goenitz going Orochi?  Its sad to see the best of the 4 Holy Knights without his greatness.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on January 29, 2009, 01:04:04 am
Thanks Lucky charat and thanks for reminding me to update page one.  I totally forgot to post the website's link there.  Kyo and Iori have their 2000 special intro, but say different things.  It roughly translates into Kyo saying, "I knew it was you.." and Iori mockingly replying, "You're not dead (yet)?"  and then both of them saying, "Let's get it on!"

Uche.  Yuri makes me pull out my hair too sometimes, but the thing is, her AI is really solid.  She uses most moves when she's supposed to.  That's why she's so tough (unlike Robert...).  You have to keep pressuring her and try not to roll too much or she'll grab you right out of it.  Honestly, I think Vanessa's way more spammy with her close up DM.  She always hits me with it.

Rikimaru, Krauser is my favorite fighter.  I just had to make the Wave as scary as I remembered it in FF2.  It's like you start crapping your pants that he's got a full meter.  That's why I made it unblockable (although I balanced that out with a slight delay).  You'll see Krizalid soon.  Shermie and Yashiro will have mainly their Orochi moves balanced with a couple of normal mode specials.  I'm excited to do them, but they won't be done until more towards the end.  Goenitz will be hard.  He's getting a new move that I'm looking to add to his cheapness (since he's losing his infinite DMs).  He's roughly 2 waves away, give or take.  Orochi needs to balance with Neo-Dio, so he won't be ridiculously cheap.  An unbeatable boss is a waste of gameplay IMO.  His soul crusher move will be instant death however, so be afraid.  Be very afraid...
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Mineko C. Lucky on January 29, 2009, 09:38:54 am
Orochi needs to balance with Neo-Dio, so he won't be ridiculously cheap.  An unbeatable boss is a waste of gameplay IMO.  His soul crusher move will be instant death however, so be afraid.  Be very afraid...
OHKO? That really is a boss. Is it OHKO even if you set to more than 100%HP? The only 3 other beatable characters that I know also have OHKO attacks are:
Miku Hatsune by Yu-Toharu: D,D,D + ABC during Shin Burst
Hitsugaya Toshiro Bankai by isaiah: D,D + S at less than 500HP
Parace D' La Sia from Arcana Heart, not yet mugenised: Unknown, because she is a secret boss.

Don't mind me, I like detailed explanations. Hope your bosses are cheaper than Mouri Motonari, I'd like it. I'll download the game after it is completed though.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Cybaster on January 29, 2009, 10:02:32 am
Well, Guilty Gear and Hokuto no Ken chars also have a OHKO. Same will go for Ralf in his KOF2k2UM version. ::)
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: K.O.D on January 29, 2009, 10:04:40 am
Ralf's Galactica Phantom SDM is a OHKO on counter hit.

edit : fixed V
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: RunningWild on January 29, 2009, 07:37:20 pm
Ralf's Galactica Phantom SDM is a OHKO on counter hit.

Fixed. :)
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: C-Cool on January 30, 2009, 01:11:34 am
Ralf's Galactica Phantom SDM is a OHKO on counter hit.

Fixed. :)

And that's how it should be (as a Ralf fan...)

I mean, he's winding up for so long... why aren't you going to roll by it?
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Rikimaru on January 30, 2009, 10:01:31 am
becareful, you dont want to combine Yashiro's/Shermie's moves with their Orochi's too much, it may leave a gap in the fluidity of their style.  :p
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Uche_of_MFG on February 19, 2009, 12:07:08 am
I have tried the latest version, and some of your characters play the same way. Other than that, it has improved greatly. What will we be expecting in future versions?
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Mineko C. Lucky on February 19, 2009, 04:01:49 am
I was wondering where did Mukai go?
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on February 19, 2009, 11:38:24 pm
Sorry I've been away so long.  Just have a lot of things going on.  I'm finishing up planning for a Euro trip in May and I"

Uche, many characters have their final movesets and are just getting bug fixes/vel fixes.  A major move change like the one done to Kasumi is rare.  I don't anticipate it happening in the future unless 2k2 UM has some moves that can be implemented without destroying the balance. 

Future version will have a new Screenpack, In Game credits and hopefully the game intro.  New characters added will be Kula, Krizalid, Rock, Jenet and Billy.  I don't know when that release will be.  I'd like it to be before my trip, but it depends how much time I can find to do everything.

Lucky, um, Mukai wasn't in the game.  He's not on the roster for this game.

I'm slowly starting to work on Kula.  She will be the biggest challenge and like Angel before her and Ash after her, she will be noticeably different than the incarnation we're used to in official games.  I'll start posting more when work on her starts picking up.  In the meantime, if anyone has anything feedback about the current build of the full game, I'd love to hear it


Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on February 20, 2009, 03:21:39 pm
Okay, I think it's time I stopped being a jerk.  There is currently a clone issue that happens when you play outside of KOFE with KOFE characters.  After watching this vid:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUtkVfdl-rk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUtkVfdl-rk)

I felt like I shouldn't stop people from using KOFE characters in their own Mugen if they want to.  It was nice to see a youtube vid of a KOFE character that wasn't from me.  Plus the 800 clones in that video were just silly.

Here's how you fix it:

-Go into a KOFE character's "king.cns" file (every character has one).
-Search for statedef 370 (it's labeled "recovery")
-Find this line:

[State 196, Pheonix Explod]
type = Helper
trigger1 = time = 1
helpertype = normal
name = "Tech"
id = 371
;postype = p1
;pos = 15,159
stateno = 371
removeongethit = 1
keyctrl = 0
ownpal = 1

-Delete it.

Clone issue fixed.  That line was implemented to create a "Tech Bonus" helper, but I decided not to add it in the end.  I will delete this code for all characters in future releases, but if you want it fixed now, just follow the instructions.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Uche_of_MFG on February 20, 2009, 05:09:12 pm
Okay, I think it's time I stopped being a jerk.  There is currently a clone issue that happens when you play outside of KOFE with KOFE characters.  After watching this vid:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUtkVfdl-rk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUtkVfdl-rk)

I felt like I shouldn't stop people from using KOFE characters in their own Mugen if they want to.  It was nice to see a youtube vid of a KOFE character that wasn't from me.  Plus the 800 clones in that video were just silly.

Here's how you fix it:

-Go into a KOFE character's "king.cns" file (every character has one).
-Search for statedef 370 (it's labeled "recovery")
-Find this line:

[State 196, Pheonix Explod]
type = Helper
trigger1 = time = 1
helpertype = normal
name = "Tech"
id = 371
;postype = p1
;pos = 15,159
stateno = 371
removeongethit = 1
keyctrl = 0
ownpal = 1

-Delete it.

Clone issue fixed.  That line was implemented to create a "Tech Bonus" helper, but I decided not to add it in the end.  I will delete this code for all characters in future releases, but if you want it fixed now, just follow the instructions.
Tech Bonus?
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: ARCoolguy on February 20, 2009, 05:23:11 pm
Why dont you put in Alba and Soiree and also Rock Howard I would also like Freeman
It would make the game better
but its just a suggestion you do not have to do it
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Cybaster on February 20, 2009, 05:27:51 pm
okay
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Mineko C. Lucky on February 20, 2009, 05:29:07 pm
Why dont you put in Alba and Soiree and also Rock Howard I would also like Freeman
It would make the game better
but its just a suggestion you do not have to do it

If he did Mukai would be in. Alba is still in the alpha phase. There's no Soiree Meiraa in 2D, let alone Mugen.
[size=5pt]I'd wish somebody made a Duke or Jivatma[/size]

Rock Howard... yeah I was wondering.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on February 21, 2009, 06:24:19 am
I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to be a bit of a jerk here.  I'm already committed to modifying 50 characters.  I'm not committing to any more.  I know what it's like to be on the other side wishing a game maker would add your favorite character, but there's already plenty of variety.  KOF the franchise has something like 90 characters.  You can then tack on characters used in SVC and NGBC since their art style is the same.  I can't commit to making everybody,  I just don't have the time or the will to do it.  Nothing stops you from adding your own characters into KOFE.  There are reasons I didn't molebox it after all.

If you need to know who's in the game visit the first page of this topic or my website.  Know that the characters you see there are the only characters I have committed to making.  Wait until they're done before requesting others please.  I have mentioned that I am interested in doing others once the project is completed, but ONLY when the project is completed.  I apologize for my stern attitude here, but I've been hearing this tune for about a year now.

Rock Howard's in.  He'll be added to the game after Kula, Krizalid and Billy are.  I actually finished up an Alpha on him about a year ago.  You can see it here (there's no sound):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TjE-mlE71Y (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TjE-mlE71Y)

Uche, Tech Hit or Tech Bonus, etc was a little visual aid that pops out from the side of the screen (like the combo counter) that tells you, you successfully quick recovered from an attack.  Some Capcom games used the indicator.  Ultimately, I thought it was a little extra that wasn't worth the time so I never made the sprite for it, but forgot to remove the code.  In KOFE, the invisible helper activates in the default.def and is triggered to be untouchable.  So you never realize it's there.  In non-KOFE mugen, the helper is not defined 9 times out of 10, which causes the glitch every time a character quick recovers.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: ARCoolguy on February 21, 2009, 04:53:38 pm
you should find a better way to put them on download

My Google Chrome/Internet Explorer does not download it
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on February 21, 2009, 06:17:52 pm
Can you be more specific?  Do you get to the links page?  Your browser doesn't allow downloading from sites like Megaupload?  I know a Chinese friend of mine couldn't access the sites uploadjockey forwarded him to.  I need more details though so I can help you.

I've finished the biggest part of the sprite edits for Kula.  It's K's knee attack (edited from Juke's Fliz).  Here's one of the frames:

(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj119/swipergod/mugen17.jpg)

I still need to touch up the shoes, but it's functional to start coding with.

Since I've mentioned that Kula will be quite different, I'll jump into a little detail:

-Kula gains K's knee command attack.
-Kula will lose both her slide and ice spike command attacks
-Kula will gain the ice spike as her CD attack, but the range will be shorter.
-Kula's punch throw will now feature Foxy.
-The Ice prison throw is now a command throw that stuns the opponent (like scum gale)
-Kula's DMs are all completely different.  One has her call Diana to dash at the opponent (DM projectile).  One has her call Foxy for an anti air (very short range).  Her SDM will feature Geese's unused Claw Raging Storm.  Her HSDM is her full screen attack, but there is no Diana pre-attack.  It will leave her open in the initial start up (like Whip's HSDM), which should allow you to see it coming.  I may also make it air blockable to further balance it out.

I'll start coding Kula next week.  Considering all her special intro and modified victory poses, she'll probably take awhile.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: ARCoolguy on February 21, 2009, 06:19:56 pm
same prob as your chinese friend
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Bastard Mami on February 21, 2009, 06:32:13 pm
Can you be more specific?  Do you get to the links page?  Your browser doesn't allow downloading from sites like Megaupload?  I know a Chinese friend of mine couldn't access the sites uploadjockey forwarded him to.  I need more details though so I can help you.

I've finished the biggest part of the sprite edits for Kula.  It's K's knee attack (edited from Juke's Fliz).  Here's one of the frames:

(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj119/swipergod/knee.gif)

I still need to touch up the shoes, but it's functional to start coding with.

Since I've mentioned that Kula will be quite different, I'll jump into a little detail:

-Kula gains K's knee command attack.
-Kula will lose both her slide and ice spike command attacks
-Kula will gain the ice spike as her CD attack, but the range will be shorter.
-Kula's punch throw will now feature Foxy.
-The Ice prison throw is now a command throw that stuns the opponent (like scum gale)
-Kula's DMs are all completely different.  One has her call Diana to dash at the opponent (DM projectile).  One has her call Foxy for an anti air (very short range).  Her SDM will feature Geese's unused Claw Raging Storm.  Her HSDM is her full screen attack, but there is no Diana pre-attack.  It will leave her open in the initial start up (like Whip's HSDM), which should allow you to see it coming.  I may also make it air blockable to further balance it out.

I'll start coding Kula next week.  Considering all her special intro and modified victory poses, she'll probably take awhile.

I lol'ed a bit at this but... If she keeps her weak kick attacks, her strong DP, her cice breath and the weak version of qcb+K she will feel exactly the same for me.oh, and close C.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: ARCoolguy on February 21, 2009, 06:36:12 pm
it was really hard for me to download because of that jockey thing
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Bastard Mami on February 21, 2009, 06:38:37 pm
You need to explain your downloads problems more, what went wrong with it ? since what UJ does is upload the file to 4 or more different places so people with small upload bandwidth can provide with more mirrors.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on February 21, 2009, 07:44:26 pm
Let me know what you would like to download and I'll direct you to a mirror you can try.  Do you want all 3 parts of the game, or just the game without the music?

[E], I can tell you're a Kula fan.  I remember reading bits and pieces you've write about her earlier in the topic.  I'm using CCI's Kula as the base.  Point out any problems you noticed and I'll see which ones I can address.

All Kula's basic attacks shouldn't change.  Her 4 classic specials shouldn't change either (dp, ice breath, reflect and tornado kick).  The only thing that I've noticed is that the slide follow up to the tornado kick doesn't allow for juggling (I might be wrong) and I think it should (slide into dp if I'm not mistaken).

Her new command throw will add to her close up game a bit since it'll allow for guaranteed DM connection.  More as I start to code her.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Bastard Mami on February 21, 2009, 07:57:19 pm
iron's har got broken juggling.

the slide should allow for anythign to juggle after it, including her qcb+kick. her qcf+X should allow for anything to juggle after it. actually, she can pretty mugh juggle after everything with everything, it's just a matter of falling vels.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: ARCoolguy on February 21, 2009, 09:03:33 pm
I would like to download Ryo Sakazaki

Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on February 22, 2009, 01:49:05 am
I sent you a link ARCoolguy. 

I was doing some major thinking since I was bugged about the roster.  Something's been bugging me about it for a while.  Came to the conclusion that I'd rather not have characters from the Ash saga (Ash and Adel).  So I'm replacing them.

The list is no longer final, since there rests a few possibilities now.

Heidern is going to be added for sure now.  I spent the day conceptualizing him for KOFE and was satisfied with what I came up with.  This leads to musical chairs.  Heidern replaces Whip, Whip replaces Angel, Angel replaces Adel, Adel is out.  His inclusion will change Leona's X-Calibur attack from it's '98 style to it's '96 style.

As for Ash spot, what I'd really like to do is add in Raiden (a Raiden, Billy, Yamazaki, Eiji team makes sense).  The problem here is pretty evident.  There is no Raiden sprited in the KOF style.  What I'm proposing is to collaborate with a spriter to port over the CVS Raiden.  I think it's clear what's in it for me here, but as part of the collaboration, I'd be willing to code a separate Raiden (non KOFE) for regular Mugen in any fashion the spriter wishes using their sprites. He could play XI style with Dreamcancels or '98 advanced or extra system or even Street Fighter Zero style.  Raiden's a grapple character that interests me and since he's in XII I figure why not.  I'm reaching here, but my project's going to go on for another year at least, so I have time.  I'd like to finish up Kula before making a call for help outside this topic.  If you know anyone who might be interested, let me know.

Obviously if I can't find any spriters to help with Raiden, then I'll need a back up.  Chances are, that'll be K'9999, but I'm also considering May Lee.  She'd need a lot of sprite editing though.

Anyway, this means that only 49 characters are now confirmed and Ash and Adel are out.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: ARCoolguy on February 22, 2009, 09:46:15 am
thx it worked
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Mineko C. Lucky on February 22, 2009, 02:07:26 pm
Ash is out?!

Never mind though, I like and had fun using Ash in KOF, it's your project so I have no say in it. :)
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: ARCoolguy on February 22, 2009, 02:22:23 pm
I do not really like Ash so i dont care if shes in or out
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on February 22, 2009, 03:21:33 pm
Out of the main 50 lineup.  Since I just started thinking about it the other day, it wouldn't necessarily mean they're out for good.  I may eventually make an Ash, Adel, K'9999, Angel team as a special team and maybe make May Lee or a Samurai spirits character (Shiki?) take Angel's spot on the Hero team after the main batch is complete.  I'd still like to do Ash and Adel.  I'd just rather do other characters first.  Heidern's omission really bugged me.  I just couldn't figure out what to do with him move wise.  That's solved now.  I also think Raiden gets the short end of the stick sometimes.  He'd be a more interesting addition than Daimon who revolves too much around his variety of throws.  Just for fun, this is how Raiden would work in KOFE:

- Headbutt would be a command overhead

- For specials he'd have an exploding Powerbomb, his poison mist, his charge, his unblockable flying clothesline and a sledge uppercut (think Brian) with autoguard points.

- For DMs he'd have an exploding leaping Powerbomb (think Zangief's crusher), an earthquake move that releases a shockwave that would have to be blocked low (kinda inspired from Wild Ambition), his leaping throw with seated senton finish and his Firebreath (would work like Chin's SDM version).

I'm coding Kula's basic attacks.  All her non-basic attacks have been completed.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: GMSpectre on February 22, 2009, 05:59:50 pm
As for Ash spot, what I'd really like to do is add in Raiden (a Raiden, Billy, Yamazaki, Eiji team makes sense).  The problem here is pretty evident.  There is no Raiden sprited in the KOF style.  What I'm proposing is to collaborate with a spriter to port over the CVS Raiden.  I think it's clear what's in it for me here, but as part of the collaboration, I'd be willing to code a separate Raiden (non KOFE) for regular Mugen in any fashion the spriter wishes using their sprites. He could play XI style with Dreamcancels or '98 advanced or extra system or even Street Fighter Zero style.  Raiden's a grapple character that interests me and since he's in XII I figure why not.  I'm reaching here, but my project's going to go on for another year at least, so I have time.  I'd like to finish up Kula before making a call for help outside this topic.  If you know anyone who might be interested, let me know.

There is actually a Raiden creation that used the Big Bear sprites from Fatal Fury 2 with a head swap.  The sprites look like they would fit in with a little recoloring.  The only problem is that since I got it so long ago, I can't remember where I downloaded it from.  There is no webpage or e-mail in the text files and the only thing the .DEF lists as an author is "7777" so I don't know who to ask for permission.  Infact the files were made in 2005 so I am not sure if the webpage even exists anymore. 

(http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j102/gmspectre/RAIDENS.png)
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on February 22, 2009, 07:01:17 pm
I'm actually not a very good spriter.  I'm only decent a modifying some stuff.  Juke drew that Kula/K' knee attack.  I modified the sprite.

(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj119/swipergod/kula.jpg)

The original is on the left, my modification is on the right.  I fixed the shoes and used various pre-existing hair to switch the "Fliz" hair.  I'd never be able to draw from scratch.  If I could, I'd make my own Raiden. :)

GmSpectre.  That's an interesting mod.  My concern is that it's probably missing a lot of hitstates and moves that the CVS version has unless there's a lot of custom sprites.  I'd also assume the animation isn't as smooth as the KOF series, although I've never seen that creation before.  It's very interesting though.  How does it play?  If anything it could help serve as a color template. 
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on February 22, 2009, 10:16:06 pm
Basics for Kula are done with the exception of special intros and victory poses.  I've changed her jumping CD attack to the windmill kick she uses to launch her air projectile since she doesn't have that move anymore.  As I was working on Kula I realized that she doesn't have a get up animation from laying down on the ground, so I gave her one.  I've also implemented her new throw.  Here's a pic:

(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj119/swipergod/fox-1.jpg)

I'll probably work on her stage today and start some of her specials.  She should be finished for next weekend.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: GMSpectre on February 22, 2009, 11:07:40 pm
GmSpectre.  That's an interesting mod.  My concern is that it's probably missing a lot of hitstates and moves that the CVS version has unless there's a lot of custom sprites.  I'd also assume the animation isn't as smooth as the KOF series, although I've never seen that creation before.  It's very interesting though.  How does it play?  If anything it could help serve as a color template. 

Well it's playable but doesn't feel smooth.  But at least it's better than starting from scratch.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Mineko C. Lucky on February 23, 2009, 01:55:49 am
Kula looks good.

Well, I'm the opposite of you though. I can draw sprites from scratch but it's quite hard for me to improve sprites drastically. Thanks to Frederica I got a good looking Rena.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on February 23, 2009, 04:01:39 am
Stage completed and all standard specials except the reflect have been coded.  I've given Ice attacks hits "Ice effects" to match the electric and burn effects in the game.  Kula's moves juggle properly so far.  The possible damage though, means I'll have to code her stun throw to lock her opponent in the air, so juggling potential is less.  It's already possible to do SP Ice breath, into WK tornado, into slide kick, into her DP for DM worthy damage.  I'll post pictures when I get to her DMs since that's where the major changes will be.  She's been a lot easier to code than I thought.  Her special intros will probably give me the most trouble, which isn't saying much.

Also, after giving more thought, I've decided to retain Adel.  I figure I have an Eolith Character in the game, there should be at least one Ash Saga character, and with ties to Rugal, Adel made more sense.  I'd still like to do Raiden and would put KOFE on hold immediately if I were given the chance to collaborate with someone on him, but I'm not sure I know any spriters who don't already have a load of their own projects and this would be a huge undertaking for them.  So, I'll still pursue making Raiden, and make Adel a bonus character if someone decides to help me out with him.  This drastically affects the teams.  I'll post the new teams tomorrow.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Uche_of_MFG on February 23, 2009, 04:11:15 pm
Stage completed and all standard specials except the reflect have been coded.  I've given Ice attacks hits "Ice effects" to match the electric and burn effects in the game.  Kula's moves juggle properly so far.  The possible damage though, means I'll have to code her stun throw to lock her opponent in the air, so juggling potential is less.  It's already possible to do SP Ice breath, into WK tornado, into slide kick, into her DP for DM worthy damage.  I'll post pictures when I get to her DMs since that's where the major changes will be.  She's been a lot easier to code than I thought.  Her special intros will probably give me the most trouble, which isn't saying much.

Also, after giving more thought, I've decided to retain Adel.  I figure I have an Eolith Character in the game, there should be at least one Ash Saga character, and with ties to Rugal, Adel made more sense.  I'd still like to do Raiden and would put KOFE on hold immediately if I were given the chance to collaborate with someone on him, but I'm not sure I know any spriters who don't already have a load of their own projects and this would be a huge undertaking for them.  So, I'll still pursue making Raiden, and make Adel a bonus character if someone decides to help me out with him.  This drastically affects the teams.  I'll post the new teams tomorrow.
Eolith?
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on February 23, 2009, 11:08:21 pm
Eolith characters from the Eolith phase of KOF (when SNK went bankrupt).  In my own head I refer to 2k1 and the original 2k2 as Eolith games (although 2k2 didn't introduce anyone new).  Angel, K'9999 and May Lee are the Eolith crew.  Foxy was technically introduced in 2k, so I don't count her.  Angel's in my game as the Eolith rep, so I figured, why not have an Ash saga rep as well.

Here's the deal.  If I can find someone to collaborate with Raiden, then I'll make another character for KOFE (so the total would be 52).  Since WH is represented with Neo-Dio, maybe I'd make Shiki or Nakoruru to rep SS.  It's a thought, since it's a bonus character.  Or maybe Ash or K'9999.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Mgbenz on February 23, 2009, 11:15:33 pm
Wouldn't NESTS Saga be more appropriate instead of Eolith?

Okay nvm. I didn't notice May Lee.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Rikimaru on February 24, 2009, 07:33:45 am
Yay Heidern!!  Something that bugs me is your lack of a joke/fun character to break to seriousness of everybody else; Shingo!  Why isn't Shingo included?  He isn't THAT bad of a character. :p  Also, I'd much rather see Daimon in the game instead of Raiden, I got somewhat Team Japan loyalty.

Also, a decent idea might be to make an Oyaji team consisting of Heidern, Saisyu, Takuma/Karate, and Chin.  If you did that you'd have room for Adel on the Sub-Boss Team, Ikari Team still has Whip, and everybody wins! =D  Just an idea.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Mineko C. Lucky on February 24, 2009, 07:36:28 am
Speaking of Joke characters I'd wish Hyena was made 2D by SNK.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on February 24, 2009, 10:23:17 am
No joke characters.  I thought about Shingo a while back, and Duck King was going to be in the game, but decided against it.  Others deserve the spot.  I'm not big on Saisyu.  He feels like a blend of Iori and Kyo rather than his own character.  Don't like Chin, Chang or Choi.  No interest in coding them.  Daimon might make more sense cannon wise, but Raiden's a more interesting character to code and play as (in my opinion).  Daimon's just throw, throw, throw.  I don't even think he has a move that you can chip damage someone with.

Team changes are as follows:

MotW breaks up ->

Adel, Rock, Angel and Jenet
Kyo, Iori, Benimaru and Vanessa
King, Mary, Xiangfei and Hotaru
Billy, Yamazaki, Eiji, Gato
Heidern, Leona, Clark, Ralf
K', Kula, Maxima, Whip

Kula's reflect is complete.  Just need to do her new throw and DMs.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Mineko C. Lucky on February 24, 2009, 12:33:55 pm
Doesn't Daimon have an earthquake move?(that's the only ranged move he has anyway)

I don't think so too, Daimon's a super-melee Krauser anyway. swipergod what are you going to do next once Diamond's completed?
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on February 25, 2009, 04:34:49 pm
Daimon's Earthquake doesn't do chip damage, it just hits you if you're standing as an unblockable attack.  After Kula, I'm going to do Adel and get him over with before I end up changing my mind about him again.  Once he's done he's done.  :)

Major coding question:

I'm doing Kula's Ice throw and using a helper to create the Ice Cage explosion since the opponent stay frozen in it for about 20 ticks after Kula's animation for the move ends.  In order to switch the frozen cage explosion helper into the "Shattering" helper, I used the "p2stateno !=" trigger in the change state code.  So everything works well in a one on one battle, but in a simultanious battle, the move & helper only work correctly with p2.  When player 4 is frozen (second opponent on the team), it uses the shatter animation immediately since p2 is not the one being frozen.  Is there another trigger I can use?  The move currently is supposed to shatter after the opponent is hit out of the frozen state or after a certain amount of time.  Anybody?

Kula's Diana "Projectile" DM is complete.  I'll post a photo later.  I probably won't be able to complete the Foxy DM until tomorrow.

Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Bastard Mami on February 25, 2009, 04:52:55 pm
change the trigger to enemynear,stateno ; it's a bit more reliable. though personally I would just coordinate a explod.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on February 26, 2009, 01:16:49 pm
I considered enemynear, stateno, but in a fight, both characters are usually nearby so, it only seems to buy a few extra ticks.  I can't exactly coordinate an explode because the "break" time of the cage varies depending on when the opponent is hit.

I'll play around a bit more.  One solution that I can figure is that I can make the ice cage a sprite in the fightfx.sff and have all characters pull it from there.  The obvious downside is that the sprite won't activate for those people who prefer to use my characters outside KOFE, which seems to be a lot more than I give credit for.

I plan on doing foxy's DM today, so I'll post both Diana's and Foxy's DM pics after that.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on February 28, 2009, 02:08:40 am
I haven't been able to come up with a solution to the Freeze cage simul glitch.  Things like this really make me want to turn the game into a tag event since there you don't have to worry about simul glitches as much and that where most glitches come from.

Here's Kula's new DMs:

Diana is called to slash through opponents.  Works like a DM projectile, but doesn't hit up close (since she's phasing in)
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj119/swipergod/kula2.jpg)

Foxy is called to cut up opponents.  Is an anti air of sorts.  Comes out faster than Diana, but has short range.  Foxy won't execute the second, bigger, slash if the first one is blocked or whiffs.  The pic shows the second slash.
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj119/swipergod/kula1.jpg)

I'll be working on Kula's intros and vic poses tomorrow.  If they go smoothly, I'll also get her SDM done as well.  Cheers.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on March 01, 2009, 01:38:37 am
As expected, coding all the victory poses and special intros has taken up the whole day.  I had to add a whole crapload of sprites to CCI's Kula since his was very bare bones and I had to do a lot of sprite edits.  I'm happy with the results, I just hate it when I do a whole bunch of work and the gameplay itself isn't affected.  Anyway, there's still one more victory pose to code, but I'll do that tomorrow or Monday.  I want to code the SDM now.  In the meantime, here's some of Kula's newest stuff.

Here's the classic Kula vs K' intro.  Nothing new here:
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj119/swipergod/intk1.jpg)

Here's Kula's new intro with Whip.  Foxy warns Whip to goes easy on Kula before waving goodbye.  Kula stands confused by the exchange.
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj119/swipergod/intk2.jpg)

Here's Kula's intro with Angel.  In KOFE Angel is Kula's rival dating back to their former NESTS days.
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj119/swipergod/intk3.jpg)

Since Foxy isn't a playable character, I wanted to use her more in Kula's poses (hence the throw).  Here she replaces Diana in the head rub victory pose.
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj119/swipergod/vick.jpg)

Additionally, all characters being touched up for special intros will have that nasty glitching helper code removed from them.  K' will have his juggle fix (thanks Cybaster) and Kim & Leona will have minor glitches addressed.  More as it comes.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on March 02, 2009, 07:11:34 am
Kula's just missing her 4th victory pose and her combos and AI now.  I'm not 100% happy with the SDM and HSDM.  I'd have preferred not to make the Raging Claw a transparency, but it's the only way to hide the Geese animation inside it.  I'm not the biggest fan of the color scheme I ended up with when I modified the petrified sprites.  I might go back and revisit them later.  If anyone's got a good blue version that'd work well with Kula, let me know.

Ice claw.  Much more threatening SDM than her regular ice spike.  Hey, Geese wasn't using it...
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj119/swipergod/kua2.jpg)

Changed her fullscreen so that it animates using Mukai's petrify.  Since Orochi's fullscreen comes from the sky, I figured why not have Kula's come from the ground.
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj119/swipergod/kua1.jpg)

I'll post Kula's vid tomorrow.  With Ash out of the game, Kula is the most drastically changed character in KOFE.  I'll make sure to illustrate all the main changes in the vid.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on March 03, 2009, 01:39:36 am
Kula vid:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wo_JcT03plE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wo_JcT03plE)

List of changes:

-New jumping wp
-New close standing wk
-df +sp command move is now CD attack and has shorter range and more lag
-New jumping CD attack
-New sp throw with Foxy
-Old sp throw now a command throw that "air stuns" an opponent.  Grabbing animation works like Iori's Scum Gale.
-New f +wk rising knee attack a la K'.
-New Diana DM
-New Foxy DM
-New Ice Claw SDM
-Altered Fullscreen HSDM.  Slow start up and different explode.
-Other misc changes like victory poses, intros.

I'll release by Friday.  That way I don't have to stress out about getting the rest done quickly.  The next thing I plan to work on will be the in game credits.  I really want to credit everyone who helped in game so someone doesn't need to look through a PDF to see all the hard work that went into the game.  Then it's Adel and Krizalid.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: BigBoss on March 03, 2009, 01:08:26 pm
Kula vid:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wo_JcT03plE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wo_JcT03plE)

List of changes:

-New jumping wp
-New close standing wk
-df +sp command move is now CD attack and has shorter range and more lag
-New jumping CD attack
-New sp throw with Foxy
-Old sp throw now a command throw that "air stuns" an opponent.  Grabbing animation works like Iori's Scum Gale.
-New f +wk rising knee attack a la K'.
-New Diana DM
-New Foxy DM
-New Ice Claw SDM
-Altered Fullscreen HSDM.  Slow start up and different explode.
-Other misc changes like victory poses, intros.

I'll release by Friday.  That way I don't have to stress out about getting the rest done quickly.  The next thing I plan to work on will be the in game credits.  I really want to credit everyone who helped in game so someone doesn't need to look through a PDF to see all the hard work that went into the game.  Then it's Adel and Krizalid.

Oh, Im liking the looks of this.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Uche_of_MFG on March 03, 2009, 11:44:30 pm
I can tell that you were able to give the other fighters the frozen state, swipergod.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on March 04, 2009, 01:44:12 am
Well, the ice cage glitch still exists.  I don't know how to work around it.  All I can suggest is to ignore it when playing simul.  Simul has been a headache and a half.  I may attempt to develop or use a tag code and implement it into the game.  That would eliminate most current existing glitches that have me shaking my head and shrugging my shoulders.  I've completed the AI and combo system for Kula.  Now it's just the one victory pose and she's pretty much done.  Still looking like Friday for a release.

I was wondering if someone could explain the Hitoverride code to me.  I've seen it and used it for helpers and understand it's basics, but if I wanted to use it to override hits when you exchange with a grab hit, would that work?  I want to try and eliminate bind errors by having binding hits override in an exchange.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Dark Symphony on March 04, 2009, 10:44:38 am
I'd say, for the time being, to just eliminate the the explod in simul mode. Yeah, it will seem goofy, but not as goofy as the spark going off before intended.

Also, you could always make the ice cage and shatter animation one animation so you don't have to use a trigger for the shatter.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Dark Symphony on March 04, 2009, 10:46:30 am
Actually, that wouldn't make sense since the explosion occurs when she breaks it. I was thinking of her ice cage throw...

I don't know.. eliminate the move? I don't see why Kula would need a freeze into free eats...

I'd have to see how it's coded... is the cage a helper with it's own state defs? I should probably go back and read exactly what you said...
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Bastard Mami on March 04, 2009, 05:15:32 pm
Well, the ice cage glitch still exists.  I don't know how to work around it.  All I can suggest is to ignore it when playing simul.  Simul has been a headache and a half.  I may attempt to develop or use a tag code and implement it into the game.  That would eliminate most current existing glitches that have me shaking my head and shrugging my shoulders.  I've completed the AI and combo system for Kula.  Now it's just the one victory pose and she's pretty much done.  Still looking like Friday for a release.

I was wondering if someone could explain the Hitoverride code to me.  I've seen it and used it for helpers and understand it's basics, but if I wanted to use it to override hits when you exchange with a grab hit, would that work?  I want to try and eliminate bind errors by having binding hits override in an exchange.

Try to post your doubts in dev help. Just a tought, though.

About the cage helper, try saving the player's ID in a var and the use that to bind.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on March 04, 2009, 06:24:51 pm
Hey DS, haven't heard from ya in awhile.  I'd rather keep the move.  Kula is powerful, but slow.  Her strength comes from linking moves together.  Individually, they don't do that much (she has one of the weaker DPs).  I balanced adding the command throw in by removing her invincibility in other non-dm moves.  She feels solid right now.

I'll give that a go [E].  I'll post in the dev section later today if I can't figure it out.

I'm heavily leaning towards adding Shiki into the game as a SS rep.  I've done some conceptualization for her moveset.  Nothing's official though.  But I'd really like to put in someone and it'd be a toss up between her and Nakoruru.  I like Shiki more and I think she fits KOF better.  Might decide against it in the end.  Since Dio made it in, I'm having a harder time justifying not putting her in though.  Waiting for Dr. H's release to get me inspired.

How about I ask the people?  Would you like the game to stay Simul or would you rather it have a tag feature?  Put it to a vote.  I want to maintain balance and avoid possibly creating infinits, so the tag feature would possibly steal a level from the super bar (although maybe I'd just put it on a timer instead), there'd be no calling for help during a move (only when states = ctrl) except maybe while blocking, and no striker system (which has been broken as heck from what I've seen in 99-01).  I'll take thoughts and tally a vote.  Close it off before the next version release and implement the changes if the response if "for" instead of "against".
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Dr. H on March 04, 2009, 07:20:01 pm
I can't run mugen properly right now as I don't have the time to search for new drivers around the net, so Shiki is currently on stand by. If I don't manage to fix that in a week, I'll send it to you in her current state and will be at your service to help with any Shiki related stuff. ;)
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Dark Symphony on March 04, 2009, 09:13:28 pm
Tag is always better than simul (And if there's a way to add tag to MUGEN, I need to know about it).

Tag allows you to stay in control of your project because balancing one character is hard enough. Balancing that character for all the possibilities that open up when there's two fighting at once creates a whole new bowl of soup.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on March 04, 2009, 11:40:32 pm
Dr. H.  That's great!  I will be more than happy to give her a go.  I'm pretty sure I'll be adding her in.  Thanks.  If you'd like me to help you finish her for your release, let me know.  I'd be more than happy to help you out.  I'll be finishing my Kula this week, so I should have time to help out next week.

DS, I agree, but it'll be a big fix and I understand some people like simul, so I'll let the masses speak before making a final decision.  If you youtube mugen tag you'll making tag is possible.  KOF Zillion also makes use of tag.  You have to use dedicated states for every character for when they're active (fighting) and passive (off screen).  I'd have to see more coding to understand more.  I'll put a tick mark for tag though.

Tag = 1
Simul = 0

KOF 98 UM finally came out in Canada.  The French instruction manual even got color (usually it's black and white).  I'm loving it.  Once I've unlocked everything, I'll throw the game on watch mode and finish up Kula's victory pose.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Bastard Mami on March 05, 2009, 12:40:05 am
Oh, so you are form Canadia...
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Mineko C. Lucky on March 05, 2009, 01:49:43 am
I'm voting for tags. Yeah, strikers should be off during tags.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on March 05, 2009, 02:30:43 am
Yup, yup.  I'm Canananadian.  lol.  I found it hilarious that "counter jump attacks with Raging Storm" is a challenge in 98 UM.  Challenges are a lot harder than in XI.  If you want to see something really funny pit Robert vs Goro in an AI battle in the Practice mode and see if the fight goes anywhere.  :P  Anyway, back on topic.  I've completed the last victory pose for Kula.  It'll just be the PDF and me trying to fix the ice cage now.

Tag = 2
Simul = 0
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: eldarion on March 05, 2009, 12:29:24 pm
A tag Mugen exists.
I have found, a few month ago, someone who was making a Mugen game using this "add-on".
Once I find it back, I'll tell you (if I remember, this person is french speaking).

EDIT:
I have found: the addon is from AnkokuAsura (http://ankokuasura.ya.st/), and the game using it is KoF-Ultimate (http://kof-mugen.blogspot.com/)
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Bastard Mami on March 05, 2009, 04:33:28 pm
I vote for simul, since it's a different experience, as a real simul fight just consist on bating for that one infinite.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Uche_of_MFG on March 05, 2009, 05:47:26 pm
I vote for Simul. Don't give up on it, swipergod. You'll let the error win.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: eldarion on March 05, 2009, 05:49:00 pm
I haven't tell...
I'd prefer Tag system.
I think simul doesn't really fit KoF gameplay and is better for Capcom VS Games.

Oh... and thanks for this game swipergod.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: ARCoolguy on March 05, 2009, 07:56:21 pm
I alos prefer tag
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: BigBoss on March 05, 2009, 11:02:51 pm
I vote for a happy medium, Tag + Simul 2 versions could be better for the fans.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on March 06, 2009, 12:49:55 am
Thanks eldarion!  I'll check out the game and see what they're using. 

BigBoss, that's too much coding and recoding.  If the game had 20 characters, I wouldn't mind, but with 51.  That's a lot of characters to filter through so I'd prefer to do one for now.  Maybe once it's complete I can off an either/or fullgame. There's no rush on the final decision since the next system release probably won't be until after May.

Yes, Shiki is now official.

I'll be uploading the new K', Whip, Angel and a Kim fix tonight.  Kula will probably be on Saturday since I'd like to try to fix the cage glitch before release.

Leona will undergo a special move change and her special intro with Rugal will be removed.  This will happen around the time of Adel's release.

I like the way K's HSDM looks in 2k2.  I may switch over if the 2k2 sprites for it become available when I have to release him for Kriz' special intro.

Tag = 4
Simul = 2
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Bastard Mami on March 06, 2009, 12:57:13 am
So, was it clear how to fix that thing. players have unique IDs, so the cage helper can save that ID (something like targed, ID) into a var, then later search for the player that has that ID ( hopefully by using playerd(varID) ) .
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on March 06, 2009, 02:20:26 am
That's coding I've never come across before, so I'm not too familiar with it.  I can give it a shot though.  I'll post in the dev help section if I can't make it work.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: BigBoss on March 06, 2009, 03:27:20 am
That's coding I've never come across before, so I'm not too familiar with it.  I can give it a shot though.  I'll post in the dev help section if I can't make it work.

Oh i was aware that, the MVC team posted a autoit application for tag must be mistaken.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on March 07, 2009, 03:37:48 am
Sorry BigBoss, I was referring to [E]'s post about my ice cage glitch.  Unfortunately I won't be able to do any Mugen this weekend.  Since the glitch isn't a big one (the cage shatters 20 ticks prematurely, but is only noticeable for about 10), I've released Kula in her current state so you can all have fun playing as her.  I'll try to fix her for the next KOFE full game release.

Download Kula at my site: http://mugekofe.web44.net/ (http://mugekofe.web44.net/)

I'll be doing credits next.  So nothing too exciting for the next couple of weeks.  Credits shouldn't take more than a full day to do, but I'll probably spread it out over a week.  Depending on what happens with Dr. H's Shiki, I may do Shiki next before Adel.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on March 07, 2009, 05:58:43 pm
There've been problems downloading Kula so I've posted her on filefront as well.  Obviously life will be easier once the game is complete and I can just post the one file on several different severs.  Until that day...

http://files.filefront.com/Kularar/;13425166;/fileinfo.html (http://files.filefront.com/Kularar/;13425166;/fileinfo.html)

Also, I've started work on the credits.  The first few screens are basic text highlighting KOFE's major contributors and screenpack credits.  Then we get into the characters.  This is a sample page of what it will look like:

(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj119/swipergod/cred.jpg)

It's inspired from 98 UM.  They'll be one for every team and for the bosses w/ Shiki.  After that I'll just have to do stage credits and music credits and a thanks for playing screen.  That's all for now.
Title: Kula
Post by: ARCoolguy on March 07, 2009, 07:29:27 pm
Finally Kula is released
Title: Re: Kula
Post by: Guilty on March 07, 2009, 07:37:33 pm
Finally Kula is released


(http://i584.photobucket.com/albums/ss284/MuriloGuilty/captainobvious.jpg)
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Bastard Mami on March 07, 2009, 07:56:34 pm
IIRc benimaru should also credit deuce, as sander's is an update of his.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on March 08, 2009, 02:42:49 pm
Right, I've added Deuce.  I also changed Sander's name (71113). What I'm doing is putting the full name of the name of the "main" original creator and short name for contributors (since space is limited).  I've finished 3 so far.  I'll do another 2 or so today.  It's weird, but I'm actually enjoying making the credits.  Does that make sense?
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Dr. H on March 08, 2009, 06:01:27 pm
Swipergod: Do you plan to give Shiki's grab SM it's proper effect, or will you give a custom one?
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on March 08, 2009, 08:13:29 pm
Well KOFE's simplified mechanics, a SM throw probably wouldn't have any type of complex effect.  Maybe a lifedrain (like Heidern) or an energy drain (like KOFE's Chizuru).  It could also be interesting to do something like "defense down" where I'd add a variable to all Shiki's moves so that if the throw connected they'd do more damage than normal (then I wouldn't have to play with other character's defs).  Depending on how the other moves would function though, this might unbalance her so she might not get the throw.  Still thinking.

I'm thinking about other things with Shiki as well since she'll most likely be midboss status like Geese or Krauser.  Things like making her teleporting dash attack invincible during the teleport and making the air dash have a teleport dash effect as well.  Shiki currently has 7 SMs and 2 DMs.  I'd remove the flipping kick most likely.  I was thinking of giving her a throw move like Lin's 2nd DM from 2k (the neck cut), make Shiki's DM neck cut the SDM and something like Basara's fatality as the HSDM (I've already conceived how to get her to "sink" into the ground with the opponent).

Did you manage to fix your Mugen?  Does it look like you'll be releasing Shiki after all Dr. H?  Remember, if you need any help with your more game accurate version, I'm more than willing.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Dr. H on March 08, 2009, 10:59:23 pm
Yeah, I did for one of my pcs... but will go through a week or two of exams in college, so I won't be able to finish her for now anyway. :P Will fix the most basic errors and send to you the unfinished version anytime soon.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on March 09, 2009, 02:48:31 pm
lol.  Well, best of luck with your exams.  I patiently await her.  With any luck, I might even finish the KOFE version of Shiki before your exams are done. :)

Credits are going really smoothly.  For characters that haven't been made yet, I'm just pointing out the Mugen versions that I'm planning using.  They'll be subject to change depending on what happens when I get to them.  I expect the credits to be done today.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: -Greed- on March 09, 2009, 04:59:00 pm
I have to say, you need to find a better host... this... Uploadjockey likes to make us take the round about way too often.  And pop-up spams me, even  though I have a pop-up blocker... (who doesn't, though)

EDIT: I'm speaking about your site in general.  I already got Kula, who is rather awesome.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: eldarion on March 09, 2009, 05:25:18 pm
Little question about Kula, where do you plan to place her in the select screen?
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on March 09, 2009, 06:57:09 pm
The select screen is going to undergo a bit of a change.  For example, Vanessa is joining Kyo's team (see credit screen above).  For right now though, Kula goes in the slot right beside K'.

QoH, I'm working on different possibilities in terms of hosting.  Manlettuce offered a upload site.  Waiting to hear back from him.  If that doesn't work, I'll give mediafire a go.  Does mediafire work in China?  I expect to start shifting sites in about a week or so.

Glad you enjoy Kula.

Credits are almost finished.  I can't remember which KOF has a thanks for playing screen...  I tried to check '97 but somehow Orochi kicked my ass.  I never lose to that guy...
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: eldarion on March 09, 2009, 08:19:56 pm
For the "Thank you for playing" screen, I'm searching  in the WWW.
I only found kof2002um screen (I never saw it on my PS2)
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on March 10, 2009, 05:10:17 am
I took the one from RB 2.  Just have to finish coding it now.  Probably tomorrow.  I will see if I can post a vid of them.  Depends on the quality.  No point if you can't read the names...  Then I'll take a little breather, while I wait for Shiki.  I'll probably do someone easy afterward.  Like Mature or Maxima.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Uche_of_MFG on March 10, 2009, 07:40:37 pm
I'm still shocked that you're adding a charater from Samurai Shodown 64 into the mix!!!
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on March 11, 2009, 04:06:38 pm
I think Shiki will be a good fit.  She's got a good look and her gameplay isn't outrageous.  Storywise, her soul has been tainted by demonic power (by Yuga), so it's not a completely difficult notion to believe she'd still be alive after all this time.  Still finalizing her moveset.

Credits are done.  They run very quickly (1 m 20 s).  Kinda sucks because I wanted to use 98 UM's end theme for them, but it doesn't mix very well.  I'd need to add two more credit screens at the beginning and there isn't really any use for them.  I'll see if I can figure out some way to make the music sync without making the images stay on the screen for too long or I'll find new ending music.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: eldarion on March 11, 2009, 05:44:36 pm
For me, Shiki's presence in a KoF game isn't a problem, as long as there's only a few "time travelling" character.
Don't forget we have Hanzou in KoF2006, Kaede/Nakoruru as strikers in KoF2000, 3 SS chara in SvC, etc...

If you want worst, look at NGBC, where SS/LB chars can fight Marco from MS
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Bastard Mami on March 11, 2009, 05:53:38 pm
also nako in kof95.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: walt on March 11, 2009, 05:56:16 pm
Proof or it didn't happen
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Bastard Mami on March 11, 2009, 06:02:50 pm
http://www.gamefaqs.com/portable/gameboy/file/562647/12036

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmiANgsiZKE

http://hg101.classicgaming.gamespy.com/kof/kof6.htm
Could not find a picture, only videos.

(http://hg101.classicgaming.gamespy.com/kof/kofr2-2.png)

Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Mgbenz on March 11, 2009, 06:07:40 pm
If you want worst, look at NGBC, where SS/LB chars can fight Marco from MS

But then again that's a crossover game with no relevance to time and plot. KOF has a story and is set in today's age so the appearances of characters from ancient times doesn't make sense unless they're immortal or got resurrected or something.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: eldarion on March 11, 2009, 06:27:57 pm
Who the hell is the badguy who resurected Shiki? Rugal is testing resurection in case he would die?
Or is it a clone of Shiki? What is NESTS thinking?

It is always possible to find a reason for the appearance of a character.


Can't wait to see her.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: PotS on March 11, 2009, 06:29:47 pm
Wow a Gameboy "port" with cool extra stuff, impressive. Look at that Mr Karate.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: K.O.D on March 11, 2009, 06:30:51 pm
The gameboy KOF's sucked, cool in concept but ugh the gameplay :P

NGPC KOF's were awesome though.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Dr. H on March 12, 2009, 08:58:46 pm
Sended Shiki to you, will not hold a character that I probably won't be able to touch in the next couple weeks any longer. :P
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on March 13, 2009, 03:55:50 am
Shiki received.  I think I've finalize conception.  I'll start working on her this weekend.  Thanks Dr. H.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Mineko C. Lucky on March 13, 2009, 04:02:19 am
Noticed one similar thing in all KOF games? Mai's breasts goes up and down even on Gameboys and 8-bits  ;P
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: eldarion on March 13, 2009, 06:14:08 pm
Another Tag Mode from AeroGP if you are interested:
http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=39468.0
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Guilty on March 13, 2009, 07:13:42 pm
who are you working on since you finished kula

You are getting REALLY obnoxious.


READ the damn thread before you think in posting stupid questions.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on March 16, 2009, 10:27:28 pm
Sorry for the lack of updates.  Life is getting really busy for me with about a month and a bit to go until I'm off to Europe.  I'd like to try and hit the 30 character mark before then, so I'm going to forego Shiki for the moment and focus on Yamazaki and Maxima who are pretty much straight conversions from their Alphas.  Everyone else requires too many sprite rips or edits and I don't have the time right now.  I probably won't start them until Friday.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Uche_of_MFG on March 17, 2009, 02:24:48 am
Sorry for the lack of updates.  Life is getting really busy for me with about a month and a bit to go until I'm off to Europe.  I'd like to try and hit the 30 character mark before then, so I'm going to forego Shiki for the moment and focus on Yamazaki and Maxima who are pretty much straight conversions from their Alphas.  Everyone else requires too many sprite rips or edits and I don't have the time right now.  I probably won't start them until Friday.
Wha?! Did you say Yamazaki?! :shocked:
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: The Railgunner on March 17, 2009, 04:16:26 am
I played around with Rugal and Geese, here's what I have to say:

Rugal has a clone bug:
(http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/1498088/640/stuff/mugen43.png)
(http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/1498087/640/stuff/mugen45.png)

Geese seems heavily based an another Geese character (the SFF and AIR are named N-Geese). He uses the same voice samples and sprites as that other Geese.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on March 17, 2009, 10:55:59 am
Rugal's clone bug should have been addressed earlier in the topic.  Since you're using KOFE characters outside the KOFE system, I always warn that there is bug potential.  For now, if you try deleting the helper found in state 370 in the King.cns, that should relieve the clone issue caused by quick recovery.

Geese is based off of N-Geese.  It says so in the credits.  Minor tweaks have been done.  Depending on the KOFE character there are small changes or vast changes in order to maintain gameplay balance.  Geese has dissipating air fireballs (both single and double), slightly slower reppukens with slightly more lag time, only a high and low counter as per the KOFE counter system, strong jaienken automatically does the lightening toss.  Deadly Rave is an auto combo and Rashomon sucks in opponents from further away.  Then there's always the basics which have been redone (hit times/velocities, hitstates, rolls/dodges, etc) as per the KOFE standard.  I also added a couple of custom sprites for special intros.

The whole idea behind KOFE was to take characters out there and mainstream them into one game, while trying to maintain balance.  That's why I'm able to say I'm going to do 50 characters.  Considering 90% of the modification work is being done by me, if I had to rip all sprites (I did a lot for Yuri) and sounds myself, I wouldn't finish for another 2 years minimum.  You can find tons of information in the history of this topic, although I don't see why you'd hunt through all that. :S
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: ARCoolguy on March 17, 2009, 06:23:51 pm
which 50 are you doing
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: eldarion on March 17, 2009, 07:32:23 pm
which 50 are you doing
http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=69500.0
1st post of the thread.

EDIT:
Swiper, there are 51 characters in your initial post
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on March 17, 2009, 11:52:40 pm
Shiki's kinda a bonus character since she has no team and isn't really a boss.   ;D
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on March 20, 2009, 02:27:39 am
Started Yamazaki.  Gathering up all necessary sprites.  Once Yamazaki's done, I might do Mature or Maxima for the big 30.  I'll keep you posted.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Uche_of_MFG on March 20, 2009, 04:01:31 pm
I just hope you're doing Vice as well. you cannot have Mature without Vice.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: ARCoolguy on March 20, 2009, 09:09:06 pm
I checked out your Robert and liked it alot
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on March 21, 2009, 04:49:48 pm
If I end up doing Mature instead of Maxima, I'll have to start Vice at the same time (some hit animations), so once Mature's done, she'd probably be done next.  But that wouldn't be until I got back from my trip most likely.

Glad you enjoy Robert.  I talked with manlettuce and he's going to let me use his webspace to post downloads, so I think with the 30 characters, I'll re-post the fullgame up there and remove the clone glitch from all characters for that package.  I'll probably release Yamazaki and the 30th character on his site as well and slowly port over the other characters if downloading works for everyone.

Shiki will be # 32 if I end up doing Mature/Vice.  Else if I do Maxima, she'll be #31
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on March 22, 2009, 08:36:29 pm
Yamazaki's non-attack basics are complete.  I figure he'll be finished by next weekend.  I'm really feeling the need to do Shiki now.  Really think it'll be a lotta fun making her, so it'll either be her or Maxima for number 30 depending on time.

Gameplay changes to Yamazaki will be minor.  Instead of being able to absorb attacks into his super meter, he'll be able to return the projectile he reflects at slow speed or fast speed.  Also, his sk version of his dust kick will negate projectiles (like Mai's firetail).  You'll still be able to chain it into the snake fists though.  You also won't be able to charge Yamazaki's DM throw.  It'll be a standard attack for the DM version and SDM version.

SX has written me to let me know they won't be able to make the new screenpack for the game.  At least not right now.  SophieX is always welcome back to finish their work whenever they feel inspired to do so.

I'm happy to announce that Mugenchina has posted all 98UM sprites they've ripped except Eiji (who hasn't been ripped yet).  I'm half tempted to download them all and save them to disc so they'll always be around.  Anyway, I now have all the non-edited sprites that I need from the KOF series.  The only thing that stops me now from doing Blue Mary is the need for arm and leg snap animations for Rock, Neo-Dio and Shiki.  Karate and Athena also need them, but I should be able to do those on my own.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on March 26, 2009, 05:00:14 pm
Trip planning is interfering with my mugen schedule, but I should be able to make up ground on the weekend.  50 000 views.  Way to go everybody.  Thanks for the support. 

Talked to King of Mugen.  Will be uploading the fixed Kula to his server sometime tonight.  From there, all new updates will be going up to his server.  That should hopefully fix the downloading issues everyone's been having.

Well I couldn't help myself and started Shiki even though I'm still working on Yamazaki.  They may end up being a simul release, depending on how challenging it is to do all of Shiki's new moves.  A special note, Shiki won't have a sexy ko upon release (unless you've got one hiding somewhere [E]).  I plan to give her one in the future, but because of the last second addition, nothing's ready right now.  After Shiki and Yamazaki are done, I'm strongly considering Ralf and Clark, won't be until June though, after I get back.  I'll keep you posted. 
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Rikimaru on March 26, 2009, 05:33:18 pm
Well, you probably don't like me anymore because of my requests/suggestions but I just felt like throwing this out there. The music on Kyo's stage seems kinda stale so I replaced that stages sound with Tears, Kyo's theme from KoF99 and it seems alot better.  Keep up the phenominal work!
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Bastard Mami on March 26, 2009, 05:51:21 pm
Well I couldn't help myself and started Shiki even though I'm still working on Yamazaki.  They may end up being a simul release, depending on how challenging it is to do all of Shiki's new moves.  A special note, Shiki won't have a sexy ko upon release (unless you've got one hiding somewhere [E]).  I plan to give her one in the future, but because of the last second addition, nothing's ready right now. 

Don't have it, but it has been requested before so I don't mind getting started one one. Do you remember how to proceed?
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Dark Symphony on March 27, 2009, 02:40:45 am
Well, you probably don't like me anymore because of my requests/suggestions but I just felt like throwing this out there. The music on Kyo's stage seems kinda stale so I replaced that stages sound with Tears, Kyo's theme from KoF99 and it seems alot better.  Keep up the phenominal work!

What was the point of posting this?

And Tears is so... boring. Good song, but there are better fight songs.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on March 27, 2009, 02:48:22 am
Hi DS, always great to see you making an appearance on the board.  I remember you were heartbroken that Athena didn't get Will.  Well, Hotaru will be so there ya go.

I don't hate you Rikimaru, everyone is entitled to their opinion.  The whole point of keeping KOFE open source is so that you can make the changes to the game that you want (your music, your stages, your specials, etc...).  It also lets you look at the way KOFE characters are made so if you want to make for your own version you can.  Just because the official version is set in stone, doesn't mean your private version has to be.  Obviously my focus on the official version to maintain balance wouldn't be maintained in those cases, but that's fine.  Why stop you from having fun.  If Mugen or a clone ever goes online, I may lock the game so that everyone playing KOFE isn't slammed with Orochi Kyos and God Ioris though.

[E] sent you a PM with the gif.  No worries if it can't make version 0.5.  I know she'll get it eventually.

Version 0.5 fixes will include the new team arrangement, in game credits and DM spark fix.

Version 0.6 will be the big fix.  This will include Blue Mary's leg and arm snap animations and the tag code (if implemented).  Right now, it looks like more are in favor of a tag system.  Honestly, if I want to maintain balance in all modes, tag should be the way to go.  I'm still on the fence though since simul is such a unique Mugen experience (not counting GG Isuka).
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on March 28, 2009, 02:53:17 am
Shiki will have a sexy ko for her first release.  Thanks to [E] for the amazingly fast job he did on her.

Edit:  Also an fyi.  Between all of Yamazaki's moves, his dust kicks felt like overkill after some initial testing.  I've removed them as specials.  The 2 hit is now a unique move (f +wk) and the sk version is his guard counter attack.

Shiki's also getting a touch up, but more on that later.

Kula's update is up on KOM's site now.  Thanks KOM.  The link is on my website (just click the kula gif).  Let me know if there are any download issues.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: eldarion on March 28, 2009, 09:38:29 am
No problem with DL
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Rikimaru on March 28, 2009, 10:34:04 am
I remember you saying that the game should be about whoever can do moves skillfully instead of just being able to do them(I.E., Geese's Raging Storm), and I've been testing the half-circle movements on KoFE against those of other MUGEN/KoF engines and I found its not me or my keyboard, the pick-ups on the double half-circles seem to require it to be a little bit too precise.  So to remedy this situation, why not change Benimaru's/Geese's/etc's HSDM to be a double-quarter circle backwards instead of a double half circle backwards?  By, I look forward with GREAT anticipation to see your take on Krizalid and Goenitz!
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on March 28, 2009, 04:13:38 pm
Glad the download is working. :)

Kriz will be far more "changed" than goenitz.  Since KOFE bosses don't rely on infinite supers or boss scale damage ratio (low hit, high deal), Goenitz will undergo mostly timing changes to make him more challenging.  A faster teleport, faster recovery on his wind pillars etc...

You have a good point there.  While x2 hcb is traditional, it might be a bit of a challenge to pull off.  Does anyone else have something to add here?  A suggested alternate method?  DM throws are pretty powerful moves, but other moves such as Iori's and Vanessa's moves are equally devastating and only require a qcf x2 command to be inputted.  I'd prefer DM throws to have their own command.  I've never been a big fan of the hcb, f for regular throws.  If I simplified the characters that use this motion (Benimaru, Iori and Yamazaki so far I think), I could make that the new motion.  Any thoughts?

I won't have much to show off with Yamazaki since he isn't getting much stuff you haven't seen before.  Here's his one special intro against Kim

"I will never forgive your evil!"... "tsh!"
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj119/swipergod/mugen0-2.jpg)

Working on Shiki, will try to finish her basics today.  Pics will be up tomorrow hopefully.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Rikimaru on March 28, 2009, 09:49:15 pm
Well, I have absolutely 0% problem with the single hcb but when we make it a double hcb it gets kinda buggy, so don't do away with the beloved hcb entirely XD.  I was also thinking of a way you could include Orochi Leona and I found in NeoWave Leona has a command that cuts her health in half to turn her into Orochi Leona and it was a regular move.  I just wanted to throw this out there, I'd still love to see Orochi Leona get some air time. ^^
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on March 29, 2009, 04:18:18 am
I'm personally not a huge fan of secondary versions of the same character.  Unless it's a gimmick of the fighting game.  GG X2 and SS IV are good examples of that.  SFZ2 just started a trend that I find annoying, so I wouldn't give Leona an Orochi version for KOFE.  Anyway in KOFE, Leona more or less has her powers under control.  Like her '99 version, her hair doesn't change color anymore.  She has a special Orochi intro with Iori, but that's pretty much it.

Shiki's basics are complete aside from her kick version throw.  Much like Neo-Dio paid some homage to Zero, Shiki will pay some homage to Basara in her SDM and HSDM.  Now that her basics are done, I'm going to finish up her stage and then move back to Yamazaki for his specials.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Rikimaru on March 29, 2009, 08:08:20 am
Well, the whole reason why the riot of blood happens(from the material SNK has layed out) is due to increased Orochi activity.  Goenitz was present so Iori rioted out and killed vice and mature(also an orochi presence).  The New Faces team + Orochi were present in 97 so they actually had them as characters.  The Orochi seal was damaged in '03 and Leona berzerked out and beat clark and ralf half to death. XD  Just saying since Goenitz, Yashiro, Shermie, and Orochi himself are in the game it'd match up for characters like Iori and Leona to have some Riot of blood action.  Not trying to force you to, just putting my reasoning out there.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on March 29, 2009, 09:30:53 am
Fair enough, but as I stated Leona's far more in control of her Orochi power than Iori is at this point in KOFE.  Not to mention the driving force behind this storyline isn't Orochi, it's Neo-Dio.  I'll get to creating the intro at some point, but basically Dio's appearance has caused an imbalance that has the dead rising from their graves and has broken Orochi's seal.  And as I've previously mentioned, I'm not going to add an alternate version of a character.  The moveset the character starts with at the beginning of the round will not change.  KOFE is about simplicity and that would ruin balance.

I have a treat for everyone.  I'm not sure if it exists or not, but I'm working on making Zankuro's SS3 "fire" stage as Shiki's stage.  I'm adding the top pixels required by the game.  Once it's done I'll release a pic.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Uche_of_MFG on March 29, 2009, 06:33:49 pm
Fair enough, but as I stated Leona's far more in control of her Orochi power than Iori is at this point in KOFE.  Not to mention the driving force behind this storyline isn't Orochi, it's Neo-Dio.  I'll get to creating the intro at some point, but basically Dio's appearance has caused an imbalance that has the dead rising from their graves and has broken Orochi's seal.  And as I've previously mentioned, I'm not going to add an alternate version of a character.  The moveset the character starts with at the beginning of the round will not change.  KOFE is about simplicity and that would ruin balance.

I have a treat for everyone.  I'm not sure if it exists or not, but I'm working on making Zankuro's SS3 "fire" stage as Shiki's stage.  I'm adding the top pixels required by the game.  Once it's done I'll release a pic.
At least it explains Shiki's involvement into KOFE, but the broken seal of Orochi? Does that mean we will be seeing Orochi anytime soon?
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on March 29, 2009, 08:38:31 pm
Here's a pic of Shiki's stage.  It's a blend of Zankuro's stage (final battle), but uses the SS IV color scheme.  I think it suits Shiki better.  I've fixed the Y pos since taking this pic (so the shadow won't split from the character anymore).

(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj119/swipergod/shiki.jpg)

Orochi will be the game's final character to celebrate the beta's completion.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Dr. H on March 29, 2009, 08:56:54 pm
So... new things planned for Shiki?
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on March 29, 2009, 11:58:35 pm
Quite a bit actually.  Here are the bigger changes:

Her dash super will no longer have the follow up.  The follow up animation is being used for the jumping CD attack.

Like in NGBC, she no longer has her ff +wp or wk combo attack special.

She loses the poison kiss as a special.  It is replaced with her throat cut (no longer a DM).

Poison kiss becomes a DM.  As she kisses her opponent a column of purple energy saps their life.  If you've seen Zelgadis' Shiki, you already know this move.

Shiki cannot get hit during the time she vanishes in her rush DM.

Her SDM has Shiki lowering herself into the shadows then popping out of the ground 3 times doing her dp (A la Basara).  The last one will have flaming effects.  Shiki cannot get hit until she's out of the ground for each dp during this move.

Her HSDM will be an unblockable, but slower rush that will end with her doing a move that is identical to Basara's SSV Fatality.

Shiki was really low on DMs, so by splitting up several other moves, she can now be a full KOFE character.  I'll be going back to Yamazaki for awhile.  I'm still waiting to see what others think about the hcb x2 motion.  Cheers.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Rikimaru on March 30, 2009, 04:28:32 am
I just thought of a decent idea.  Why not have Leona/Iori have a special intro with Orochi related characters (Yashiro/Shermie/Goenitz/Orochi) where they partial Riot out then regain control or have it be a victory pose where they Orochi out.  Just an idea.  Also, Im voting for Tag battle.

Also!  Please change file sharing sources!  UploadJockey has some viruses floating around.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on April 01, 2009, 07:33:40 pm
If you notice, all KOFE intros have both character involved doing a unique intro (no rehashing the standard intro).  Characters like Orochi and Goenitz don't have enough animations to make that work (although I am planning special intros for Iori, Leona and Chizuru vs Orochi).

As I mentioned above, stuff will slowly start moving to KOM's server.  With this new virus out there, I wouldn't want anyone to download from uploadjockey anymore and will be taking the links down until they're moved.

Ryuji's specials are all done.  The only difference between KOFE and reg are an explod for the proj reflect punch (which I might not keep), and that his snake fists can be charged like RB.

I will be moving back to Shiki now to do her specials.  I hope to be finished by the weekend.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Mineko C. Lucky on April 02, 2009, 04:35:30 am
If you notice, all KOFE intros have both character involved doing a unique intro (no rehashing the standard intro).  Characters like Orochi and Goenitz don't have enough animations to make that work (although I am planning special intros for Iori, Leona and Chizuru vs Orochi).
Leona? Isn't that blank space be Kyo instead? The trio guardians?
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on April 02, 2009, 04:42:55 am
Nope.  Leona and Iori go Orochi when in Orochi's presence and Chizuru has her 97 special intro with Orochi, while Orochi has one reaction to all 3.  I wouldn't be opposed to Kyo's 98UM intro with Orochi, but I don't have the required sprites (since I'm using the 99-02 sprites).
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Rikimaru on April 02, 2009, 08:35:52 am
Id be perfectly happy with Leona having a riot-based intro with Orochi.  Also, if you need ideas for Kyo's intro with Orochi, you could use Muzichi's voice from NGBC(that way it is said in a different tone from his DM/SDM) to say,
"Sa, mu ni kaerou..."   Translated:  Come, let us return to oblivion.
and have Kyo respond with Shin Kyo's KoF99 intro vs Iori.
"Temee no tsugou de ikichaneeyo!"   Translated:  I'm not going to live at your convenience!

I replayed NGBC and Mizuchi actually has some REALLY good which can be easily converted to look like Orochi, which I believe MugenChina has already done for kofz.  Looking forward to your Krizalid! =D
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Uche_of_MFG on April 02, 2009, 05:33:21 pm
I'm actually mad about this new virus. Are we never to be safe from thes hackers?

Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on April 02, 2009, 06:43:49 pm
I'll consider a Kyo vs Orochi intro.  But, Orochi's a long way away (next year seems likely), so I'm in no hurry to resolve that.

Viruses are like crimes, they'll never go away so long as there's people out there willing to do them.  Anyway...

I've gotten a little annoyed at always having to add the "cut" hitsparks to characters so I've put them in the fight fx.  For Shiki, this means if you use her outside of KOFE, she won't have hitsparks.  I'll probably give her, her own cut hitsparks, but only if I'm not pressed for time before I leave on my trip, otherwise she'll be updated with them later.  For testing purposes right now I guess.  I expect to have Shiki's specials done today with the execption of her new command throw, which might take a while to program (might not, who knows).
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on April 03, 2009, 06:03:45 pm
Finished up all of Shiki's specials except for the new throw.  I completely forgot about her air DP, so I put it in.  She won't have her air teleports though.  Hoping to finish the new throw and Yamazaki's LV1 DMs today, maybe even his SDM.  If all goes well Yamazaki should be finished tomorrow.  Shiki will be trickier, since there's still some sprite editing to do.

Edit:  Now I feel like an idiot.  Dr. H already made the exact same throw I was thinking of making.  I don't know how I missed that in my initial trial of his Shiki.  Shiki's specials are complete.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Bastard Mami on April 03, 2009, 07:53:40 pm
so, what is she lacking ?
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on April 03, 2009, 09:32:52 pm
DMs, Unique Chain (which will be something similar to her ff +wk attack from SVC), sexy KO (haven't started sprite editing the clothes ripping yet).  That's pretty much it.  Her DMs will be easy, her SDM will require me to create sprite edits of her sinking into the ground and then dp-ing back out.  Her HSDM will require me to port over blood and a background from SS.  Really, she should be ready by next weekend the latest.  I have 4 days off that weekend so I should be able to get her done in there.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Uche_of_MFG on April 03, 2009, 09:52:56 pm
Other than Shiki, is anyone else coming back from the dead?
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on April 04, 2009, 04:31:12 am
Technically:

Vice, Mature, Geese (FF continuity, KOF he's still alive), Yashiro, Goenitz, Shermie, Krizalid, Rugal.

Outside of KOF, I'm not sure.  I'd like to have 52 characters, but I have no one right now that I decided on.  I'm actually not very big on Nameless, who would've taken that 52nd slot.  To me Shiki works as a undead warrior.  Someone like Haomaru or Kaede seem like overkill.  I was considering Gouki for the project, but I'm not sure yet.

Yamazaki pretty much done.  I'll post a vid tomorrow.  With any luck he'll be downloadable tomorrow too.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on April 04, 2009, 03:41:35 pm
Yamazaki's vid:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgzbP6RvlxI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgzbP6RvlxI)

He's also 100% complete so I'm just waiting for KOM to upload him so that I can post him up on my site.  Interesting side note.  As I was playing, I noticed that the hit Yamazaki does in his counter acts like a pop up due to its current juggling ability.  I liked this so I didn't change it.  For example, you can now counter and chain it into his Guillotine DM.

Been doing some thinking and in the tag vs simul, I'm 90% sure I'd like to implement a tag feature.  Most of the 8000 states are free in all KOFE characters, so once a code is conceived, it'd mostly be a copy and paste job.  I just hate it when I'm the last fighter left and a team juggles me for 85% of my life.  If the juggling in Mugen was universal (applying to both helpers and players), then it'd be more acceptable.  Just another reason to switch over.

I ripped Shiki's background explode for her HSDM from SS3.  If anything, you have to admit SS3 has nice backgrounds. :)  I'll be taking a day or two off before trying to cram Shiki for next weekend.  Nothing else to report at the moment.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: ARCoolguy on April 04, 2009, 04:07:45 pm
Nice Yamazaki vid, I am truly a fan of your works
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Bastard Mami on April 04, 2009, 05:34:43 pm
Technically:

Vice, Mature, Geese (FF continuity, KOF he's still alive), Yashiro, Goenitz, Shermie, Krizalid, Rugal.

Outside of KOF, I'm not sure.  I'd like to have 52 characters, but I have no one right now that I decided on.  I'm actually not very big on Nameless, who would've taken that 52nd slot.  To me Shiki works as a undead warrior.  Someone like Haomaru or Kaede seem like overkill.  I was considering Gouki for the project, but I'm not sure yet.

Yamazaki pretty much done.  I'll post a vid tomorrow.  With any luck he'll be downloadable tomorrow too.

Gaira caffeine (samsho 2) would  be pretty interesting, though his shading is pretty off.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: ARCoolguy on April 04, 2009, 08:29:41 pm
Technically:

Vice, Mature, Geese (FF continuity, KOF he's still alive), Yashiro, Goenitz, Shermie, Krizalid, Rugal.

Outside of KOF, I'm not sure.  I'd like to have 52 characters, but I have no one right now that I decided on.  I'm actually not very big on Nameless, who would've taken that 52nd slot.  To me Shiki works as a undead warrior.  Someone like Haomaru or Kaede seem like overkill.  I was considering Gouki for the project, but I'm not sure yet.

Yamazaki pretty much done.  I'll post a vid tomorrow.  With any luck he'll be downloadable tomorrow too.

Make Freeman
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on April 05, 2009, 04:12:24 am
I love SS.  I played SS4 at regional level.  I like the different style of fighting game that they are.  Unfortunately SS doesn't mix with KOF, else I probably would have made a SS team.  I'd love to put Hanzo in.  If only he'd been selected for NGBC...

No, I will not add Earthquake.

I'm not really interested in adding any more MotW characters.  Besides Freeman is very similar to Mature in a lot of respects.

I'd have loved to do a Metal Slug character, but IMO they didn't do a good job with Marco.  He feels like more of a gimmick than a fighter.  Fio from MI2 feels more solid.

Gouki is a very strong contender, since the idea of a bonus character is someone who doesn't normally fight in KOF.  Thinking back to SVC and NGBC (the only KOF compatible games), there isn't much else...  Then again, I might just stick to 51 characters...
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Dr. H on April 05, 2009, 05:02:14 am
Get a character whose sff is very versatile, I mean, that you can make tons of original things with existing resources. Shion comes to mind.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Rikimaru on April 05, 2009, 05:46:49 am
I wouldn't mind seeing Duolon, but since this is a Fighting Tournament, why not Ryu?  Wandering around fighting is kinda Ryu's MO, though I would much rather see Goro Daimon(with your touch to him) and Shingo added.  Shingo had nice aspects, kinda like the one dude that doesnt know sit going out amongst other people with actual skill/experience.  Also, going back to Saisyu, he would be an interesting character to put in.  He could be a sub-boss, a boss, and a special character all at the same time.  Well, theres my 2 cents.  Duolon, Daimon, Shingo, Saisyu, Ryu.  Bonus points if you use them all :p
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Mineko C. Lucky on April 05, 2009, 06:26:43 am
swipergod, previously you said that if KOFE characters are used outside KOFE they tend to become buggish right? Now I'm curious, what happens if you used characters not from KOFE and puting it into KOFE? Example, adding additional KOF characters like Ash, Shen Woo and Bao?
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on April 05, 2009, 02:19:50 pm
Dr. H.  I usually wouldn't work with a character that doesn't have versatility.  Honestly, this is why I cut most XI characters.  It's to difficult to shift them over to KOFE.  Elizabeth is a good example here.  She just didn't have enough moves, or moves that were interesting enough for me to put her in.  Silver is another character that got cut for the same reason.  I think Silver is awesome, but he just doesn't have enough sffs to make a full character, although if someone out there can suggest a KOFE standard for him that works (5 specials and 4 DMs) I'd be very interested in doing him.  Shion is so much fun to use in XI.  There was a point where I considered her, but for some reason I can't recall at the moment, I decided to pass.

Rikimaru.  If you watch my vids on youtube, you'll see at the very beginning, Ryu (or evil Ryu) was on the KOFE roster.  I had made him very Gouki-like so he wouldn't be too similar to Ryo and Robert.  Realized if I was making him Gouki-ish, why not just use Gouki and save from having to do sprite edits.  I've also been playing around with the idea of adding Nakoruru and making the two bonus characters SS.  Nakoruru gains considerable powers at the end of SSV, so it's makes sense storywise.  I think I've confirmed the actual KOF fighters roster for now.  If I were to add another, it'd be bringing back Ash. As I mentioned before, after the initial beta is done, I might be tempted to do another team (Ash, K9999, May Lee and someone else).  I don't like Duolon or Shen Woo and would much rather do someone like Lin who has a wealth of moves to choose from.

Lucky C.  There are 2 main reasons why KOFE characters are buggy outside the KOFE system.  One is because they use the fightfx.sff that comes with KOFE.  Without it, hitsparks (including fire and lightning effects) and supersparks will most likely be missing.  The second reason is because I've developed a specific definition for the hit states.  Unfortunately Mugen creators never universalized hit states which becomes annoying, especially in binding states.  If you were to bring characters into KOFE, you wouldn't suffer from problem one, although the characters would probably feel a little out of place since they might not have everything the KOFE engine incorporates (throw counters and guard crushes being the obvious examples here).  The major problem would be with the hits and binded states.  Because outside characters haven't be conformed, chances are really good that they'll end up doing weird things like attack when they're supposed to be taking a punch or just vanish during a throw.  It doesn't actually affect gameplay (mostly), but will look very weird.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Uche_of_MFG on April 05, 2009, 06:26:31 pm
Wow, that explanation was heavy.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Mineko C. Lucky on April 05, 2009, 06:33:15 pm
Doesn't matter. I like detailed, very detailed explanations. I read books that go hundreds of pages talking about one thing, something like Seven Deadly Colours : The Secret of Nature's Palette and How It Eluded Darwin.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on April 06, 2009, 02:41:02 am
Just thought it would help if I was clear. 

Yamazaki can be downloaded now at my site.

Let me know if you find any problems (within KOFE please).  Shiki's L1 DMs are done.  I'll probably post pics at some point tomorrow.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Mineko C. Lucky on April 06, 2009, 12:57:17 pm
:omg: Read the front page before saying anything that's going to make people kill you.

There will be no such characters in this full-game. swipergod has explained why like a hundred times.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on April 06, 2009, 08:41:43 pm
lol, I don't expect people to go that far back.  I swear there's over 30 responses at least of me saying the same thing over and over.  I kinda expect it.  Plus it helps clear things up for those who just jumped on the KOFE bandwagon.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on April 08, 2009, 03:05:53 am
Some photos of Shiki's progress.  I may have a new follow up for her dash slash, but I'll need to play around with her sprites a bit.

The finish to her Rush DM.  I worked hard to make the velocities as close to SVC as possible:
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj119/swipergod/shi03.jpg)

Her new command throw makes an "X" slash across the throat (Modified from Raposo's new move):
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj119/swipergod/shi02.jpg)

Her new Death Kiss DM (modified from Zelgadis' Shiki):
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj119/swipergod/shi01.jpg)
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Uche_of_MFG on April 08, 2009, 05:27:30 am
(gulp) This could mean trouble for the other teams willing to prove themselves in KOFE.
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Mineko C. Lucky on April 08, 2009, 05:31:39 am
I don't know/forgotten if you have mentioned this, swipergod. But will the spark and other problems be fixed to allow KOFE characters go outside KOFE and other characters go inside KOFE?

Doesn't matter if that is going to be fixed for the next three months, or until this project finishes, because I'll only wait for the completion of KOFE before I download anything.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on April 08, 2009, 12:05:42 pm
I will most likely correct Shiki's cut hitsparks before she's released.  As for supersparks, I won't be doing anything about that.  When you activate a DM outside KOFE the screen just goes black.  For the characters you want to use outside KOFE, it wouldn't be hard to fix this problem for them though (just add in the sprites and animations copied from the fightfx).

Asura isn't going to be in.  I like his design, but he's severely lacking in moves and unique animations.  Shame because the animations he has are really fluid.  Nothing yet on the 52nd character.  Probably won't figure that out for awhile yet.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: xionzappa on April 09, 2009, 12:54:37 am
I have a question. I know it's dumb, but it's been driving me nuts. Is there really a way for mugen to recognize 'teams'? I mean, whenever I do any sort of team battle, it's always random. Is there a way to make it so mugen recognizes teams, selecting those that are supposed to be grouped together and if so, will it be implemented in your game?
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on April 09, 2009, 01:04:50 am
To my knowledge there is no way of locking in teams.  I could give each team a number, but this would mean that you'd always fight the same team first and the same team second, etc., which could get pretty boring after the first few times. 

Right now you fight 4 random teams, the boss team and final boss team (although their team isn't finished yet).  I'll be able to play with this a little more when I'm closer to completion, but the idea is to pick between 2-3 teams at each level.  Thing is, the characters may still get mash up regardless (as it will still be random between those selected).  This issue is something that you could mention to those people making new mugen-like engines.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Mineko C. Lucky on April 09, 2009, 02:02:45 am
Still, you can "pretend" you are playing a selected team. Use watch button. Select the character you want to use, select your support, select your opponents. When the battle starts, enable debug keys and "Ctrl+1".
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: xionzappa on April 09, 2009, 01:19:25 pm
You're right! Or do versus mode and press Ctrl+2. Wow, it really works...
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: eldarion on April 09, 2009, 02:27:32 pm
Yes, but this is not a real Arcade mode
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Bastard Mami on April 09, 2009, 04:28:39 pm
the other way would be to make the teams as individual characters that are playable only against in arcade mode.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on April 09, 2009, 07:51:34 pm
I know people have done that before, but I'm not sure how to code that...  I'll have to figure it out though since I will most likely be switching Simul over to Tag.

Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Bastard Mami on April 09, 2009, 08:23:07 pm
that's a different matter to tag, though.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: GMSpectre on April 09, 2009, 11:24:15 pm
To my knowledge there is no way of locking in teams.  I could give each team a number, but this would mean that you'd always fight the same team first and the same team second, etc., which could get pretty boring after the first few times. 

One thing that you could do to make arcade mode tiers based on groups of 4-6 characters to get matching teams and mix things up.  For example, 1 would be Fatal Fury characters (like Terry, Andy, Joe, Mai, Blue Mary so you would play against a team of 2 or 3 chosen at random), 2 would be Art of Fighting characters, 3 would be Nests era characters, etc.  The teams would still be random but have a bit of consistency between them.

Just a suggestion :)
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: xionzappa on April 10, 2009, 12:27:33 am
Yeah, but you'd still fight fatal fury first, art of fighting second, and all that stuff if you did that.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on April 10, 2009, 02:57:28 pm
Still GM spectre's idea isn't a bad one.  Doesn't really apply yet since there's still so many characters missing.

Okay finished Shiki's SDM.  It turned out beautifully.  I added Fuuma/Hanzo's dragon effect to the final dp for more show (in Shiki pink).  The move juggles well and looks nice when animated.  Hard to show all three dps for you to get the idea, but here's the last one with the effect:

(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj119/swipergod/mugen8.jpg)

I've also finished the new PDF to include Kula, Yamazaki and Shiki.  I'll upload it soon.

I have to tidy up Shiki's stage since it's not animating the way it's supposed to, and I'm going to see about giving her dash a new follow up.  Work on the HSDM should start today.  Happy Good Friday to those celebrating!
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on April 11, 2009, 04:33:15 am
Shiki's HSDM is complete with the exception of the blood hitsparks (from SS).  That'll take a while to do.  As I was testing Shiki, I noticed that a lot of characters have bad measurements for their head pos.  I will fix this for those who need it and make sure to keep an eye out for it with future characters.  Shiki's still gonna be at least another week out since I have to do the sexy ko before she can be released.  Everything else will be finished tomorrow.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: la;MISS~FairY-! on April 11, 2009, 07:18:32 am
Really glad to see the project coming along so well! Hopefully you're holding up well, too.

Sorry for being out of touch. Had computer issues and until recently more RL drama. -sigh- I just don't have enough time for fun anymore.

I'm still trying to work on Dio's AI, if you want it. I had my old data saved to disc so I didn't lose track of it. Thankfully.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on April 11, 2009, 07:59:51 pm
Missfairy, you never have to apologize to me.  ;)  You and [E] are KOFE senior contributors.  Means your help is always appreciated without question and I stop the presses whenever you have something new to add to a release.  Any AI you want to do would be a great help.  Neo-Dio could certainly use some because he's not very hard right now.  Maybe you'd like to give Shiki a go?  I'll PM to see how things are going and catch up more.

Here's Shiki's vid:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=re39UkZOF2E (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=re39UkZOF2E)

Coding her HSDM reminded me of way back when I had to do Rugal's.  I think it was about 6-7 hours of work start to finish (including sprite rips and everything).  Once her sexy KO is done, I will focus on the full release and get it up before my trip hopefully.  I'm going back now to Leona to switch her X-Calibur from the '98 grab to the '96 leaping version.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Dr. H on April 11, 2009, 08:33:19 pm
Ha, you made use of that stand slash attack I made as a Qcf+P follow up... that was supposed to be her far C in early stages, but I ended up scraping the idea. Nice seeing that the effort ended up not being in vain.

Awesome new DMs, well done.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on April 11, 2009, 10:52:33 pm
Thanks Dr.H.  I just changed the legs on the sprites you made for the follow up.  You'll see quite a few new sprites in your old sff file.  Because I was pressed for time, they aren't organized as nicely as yours were, but no biggie.  I've been playing with her a lot.  She's a lot of fun.  SVC Shiki always felt so incomplete to me, so I never used her that much.

Fixed all characters head pos x & y and removed the helper in 370.  PDF is complete and will be uploaded some point today.  All that remains is Shiki's Sexy KO.  Once that's done,  I'll throw everything up.  I doubt it'll happen until mid next week.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: la;MISS~FairY-! on April 12, 2009, 07:49:05 am
Missfairy, you never have to apologize to me.  ;)  You and [E] are KOFE senior contributors.  Means your help is always appreciated without question and I stop the presses whenever you have something new to add to a release.  Any AI you want to do would be a great help.  Neo-Dio could certainly use some because he's not very hard right now.  Maybe you'd like to give Shiki a go?  I'll PM to see how things are going and catch up more.

Here's Shiki's vid:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=re39UkZOF2E (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=re39UkZOF2E)

Coding her HSDM reminded me of way back when I had to do Rugal's.  I think it was about 6-7 hours of work start to finish (including sprite rips and everything).  Once her sexy KO is done, I will focus on the full release and get it up before my trip hopefully.  I'm going back now to Leona to switch her X-Calibur from the '98 grab to the '96 leaping version.
Aww thank you. And I might be able to! I think I made AI for a shiki a long time ago so I might be able to borrow from that. Heh~

Shiki looks awesome! Can't wait to try her :D
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on April 12, 2009, 05:25:00 pm
Thanks MissFairy!

I've been thinking about what Rikimaru had mentioned awhile back about taking out the hcb x2 motion.  I have to admit that I struggle with this motion myself.  It has become especially apparent with Yamazaki and Shiki who both have DM throws.  None of the other DMs have a motion this complex, which almost makes it unfair to those using Geese, Krauser or someone else with a super throw.  Karate, Vanessa and Iori all have close unblockable DMs that are simply qcf x2 and p.

I've decided to try out replacing hcb x 2 with hcb,f.  This would also go for non-throw moves like Athena's Shining Crystal bit.  We'll try it out for a bit and see the reaction to this major gameplay change.  Characters with this motion for special throws right now (Iori, Yamazaki, Benimaru and Kula) will have their throws simplified to a dp motion or hcf/hcb motion.

I was also wondering if there are those out there who play right now, who have no problems beating the game in Single Player mode?  A few friends tried the game for the first time and couldn't even beat Vanessa.  I have no problems beating the game (although I usually at least continue once). Just curious.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on April 13, 2009, 03:42:40 am
Lots of corrections today.  Kula had explod glitching for Foxy and Diana.  Yamazaki had a sexy KO glitch with his SDM.  I had to trade off the binding hits that H did with real hitdefs.  Not really a big deal since the game's simul will eventually move to tag.  Removed the Athena/Kyo special intro and switched all throw commands I mentioned above.  Example:  Benimaru Collider is now f,d,f +p.  This puts the skill once more in how you use the move than whether or not you can pull the move off.

The other big news is that I've finalized the last character more or less.  You may have heard that I'm looking to start a KOF Raiden and I'm very serious about that project, but I know it's a tough task and people might not be up to it (I need a spriter).  Besides that, even though I'd put Raiden in KOFE, I'd make an actual KOF Raiden using the KOF system complete with POW and perhaps super cancels and it might take a while.  So in the meantime, the slot will be going to Saisyu.  He'll be a hybrid of sorts of Iori and Kyo in terms of DMs.  His addition rearranges the teams once again.  The MOTW team will reassemble, Angel will move to Billy's team, Vanessa to the Women's team and Saisyu will lead the Hero team and Adel becomes the 2nd Bonus Character.

Once Shiki is done and I return from my trip I still plan on doing Ralf and Clark.  Once they're done the next wave will be Saisyu, Maxima, Mature and Vice.  Then, I'll look at implementing the tag system for the next release.  I would appreciate anyone who would be willing to code a basic tag code that I can add to all characters.  I am capable of doing it, but it would save me a lot of time and allow me to focus on the characters.  You would get full credit for the code.  I'm looking at simply being able to press a button and character x leave (being fully invincible) and character y flying in like in NGBC.  A tag could only occur if the character is standing still or ducking.  That's it for right now.  No strikers, guard into tags, dual attacks, etc...  Cheers.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Dr. H on April 13, 2009, 04:10:39 am
Raiden is a good choice, don't expect much positive reaction about this choice though.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on April 13, 2009, 05:38:59 am
I think people need to see the potential in a guy like Raiden in KOF.  He was one of those character in FFS that made you crap your pants when you were about to fight him.  He's getting a lot of heat for being in XII when people like King and Adel were left out.  Provided XII plays as good as it looks, I think Raiden might finally gain a few more fans.  Raiden's move design is a lot more interesting than... say a guy that spins around and piledrives people (who seems to be quite popular in his current incarnation from what I've heard).

I'll wait.  I don't expect someone to jump on the Raiden bandwagon tomorrow.  Might be a few months before I find someone willing to convert his sprites, if at all.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: ARCoolguy on April 13, 2009, 04:10:41 pm
Yo There is a glitch in your Terry
(http://foto-uploaden.nl/upload/6df1a1d87e0572b3aa504306ca01bc87.png)

and why dont you put in Ryuhaku Todoh
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on April 13, 2009, 05:44:56 pm
Sorry ARCoolguy, but I've explained this glitch a hundred times already.  It happens because you're using Terry outside the KOFE system (ie your personal mugen).  In King.cns find the helper in state 370 and delete it.  That will fix this glitch.  When the newest version of the full game is released, this glitch will no longer exist for all characters.

The SNK Raiden topic's been a bit of fun:

http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=96912.0 (http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=96912.0)

I may put KOFE on hold when I come back so that I can program an SNK version of Raiden complete with SNK sounds.  For now, he'd still use the CVS sprites and would be missing some moves, but it'd give an idea of how he'd play.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Alkanphel on April 13, 2009, 06:30:08 pm
Shiki's HSDM is awesome.  Really has a nice Sam Shodown feel to it too, and that bg with the cherry blossoms rocks.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on April 14, 2009, 02:39:09 am
Currently have a glitch with the bg when playing simul.  While you're slaying your opponent, your partner and their opponent scroll the background off.  I'll have to fix it.  Glad you approved though.  I created it so that all characters that Shiki grabs would disappear under the ground (the bg is actually 2 explods).

Kula, Yamazaki and Shiki will be released as single characters and in the full game.  The rest of the characters, with all their fixes will be available in the full game only.  I've run out of time.  Everything has to be done this coming weekend.  I'll be able to do more when I come back.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: GMSpectre on April 14, 2009, 02:54:22 am
I'll wait.  I don't expect someone to jump on the Raiden bandwagon tomorrow.  Might be a few months before I find someone willing to convert his sprites, if at all.

For me, the appeal of Raiden is because he was based on old school Big Van Vader.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTR8RYxbCuk
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Julius on April 14, 2009, 03:16:05 am
I've been wondering if you could use another file-uploading site for your stuff. With Uploadjockey, I've been getting tons of virus and spyware alerts.

Wait, did you post about this already?
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: la;MISS~FairY-! on April 14, 2009, 03:59:51 am
I've been wondering if you could use another file-uploading site for your stuff. With Uploadjockey, I've been getting tons of virus and spyware alerts.

Wait, did you post about this already?
Do you use a stable Anti-virus system? (Not saying you aren't, I've never dealt with that upload site before. So I have no idea how safe it is..)

Sendspace is by far the best one, IMO. It's stable and safe to use.

Rappidshare and Megaupload are both pretty good, too.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on April 14, 2009, 04:19:38 am
Sorry, I've been meaning to delete those links, but just don't have the time right now.  Please wait for Shiki to be completed and the full game to be uploaded.  I'm using King of Mugen's server, which people are saying works well.  Once it's up, I'll PM you.  Thanks for your interest.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Speedster on April 14, 2009, 04:58:08 am
Hm, good project.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Byakko on April 14, 2009, 06:50:16 pm
Do you use a stable Anti-virus system?
Just to say, this isn't the right question. The site gives virii etc. so it should already be ignored, he shouldn't need to fix his side for this, the DL site shouldn't have those problems to begin with.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on April 14, 2009, 06:53:02 pm
Thanks.  c00per has made a great base for the Raiden conversion at the SNK Raiden topic.  Check it out:

http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=96912.0 (http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=96912.0)

I am now committed to bringing Raiden to KOF and KOFE.  Saisyu is out.  I won't be able to do anything until I get back from my trip in June, but Raiden's KOF coding will be the priority.  As for his spriting, it will probably be an ongoing thing, while I work on other KOFE stuff, so don't worry KOFE won't be put on a long term hold.  At the same time, don't expect a Raiden release anytime soon.  Many spriters are busy with their own project and there are a lot of sprites to convert.  Cheers.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Uche_of_MFG on April 14, 2009, 07:23:09 pm
Thanks.  c00per has made a great base for the Raiden conversion at the SNK Raiden topic.  Check it out:

http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=96912.0 (http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=96912.0)

I am now committed to bringing Raiden to KOF and KOFE.  Saisyu is out.  I won't be able to do anything until I get back from my trip in June, but Raiden's KOF coding will be the priority.  As for his spriting, it will probably be an ongoing thing, while I work on other KOFE stuff, so don't worry KOFE won't be put on a long term hold.  At the same time, don't expect a Raiden release anytime soon.  Many spriters are busy with their own project and there are a lot of sprites to convert.  Cheers.
That's wonderful news, swipergod. This is now the unique King of Fighters ever seen on M.U.G.E.N. because it is the only one to ever have Raiden.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: la;MISS~FairY-! on April 14, 2009, 07:30:32 pm
Do you use a stable Anti-virus system?
Just to say, this isn't the right question. The site gives virii etc. so it should already be ignored, he shouldn't need to fix his side for this, the DL site shouldn't have those problems to begin with.
Oh I know. I was asking if he was using a reputable anti virus since some of the lower quality ones can give false positives for websites like that. (As I said I've never used the site, so I wouldn't know)

Apparently the site is in fact dangerous, though. So my question was moot.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: ARCoolguy on April 14, 2009, 07:30:50 pm
when will you finish Rock I am waiting for him alot
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on April 15, 2009, 06:09:01 pm
Rock could probably replace Saisyu now since Saisyu's out of the game in the next wave.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Bastard Mami on April 15, 2009, 06:20:48 pm
Apparently the site is in fact dangerous, though. So my question was moot.

Yeah, I guess that is why scanslators stoped using it.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on April 18, 2009, 02:50:03 pm
I have updated my website and removed the links to uploadjockey.  For now the plan will be for me to just upload the full game and the newest wave of characters as the only separate characters (in this case Kula, Yamazaki and Shiki).  I still have all character packed up.  Just don't have the time to upload them, so if you're looking for just one specific older character, you'll have to PM me for the time being.

Sexy KOs for Shiki are done, so I'm just finishing up the KOFE full game split for uploading.  I'll post the links once KOFM has uploaded them.  Please note the credits are a work in progress.  They don't show the current team line up and more names will be added as coding continues.  Just wanted to acknowledge the people who made this possible in game.  Cheers!
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on April 19, 2009, 06:48:59 pm
Just waiting on KOM to upload the files for your downloading pleasure. 

Long version:

FYI, this will be the last time you will be able to upload Angel.  I am removing her from the project and KOFE.  This is the first and hopefully only time that I will be doing something like this as she took a lot of work to modify, but I feel like in terms of roster and overall fit, Saisyu deserves to be in KOFE more.  This does not mean that if someone requests her that I won't make her available, it just means there will be no more future updates/fixes for her, she will not get her Mary arm and leg snaps programmed and she won't get the eventual tag code.  If in the future, once KOFE gets to version 1.0, I decide to make a new team including Ash, K9999/Nameless and another, then I'll bring her back.  Since I've already made a stage for her and music, I'll simply port that over to Adel since both suit him well (the music is his XI theme after all).

Short version:

Saisyu is replacing Angel.  Adel will gain her stage and music.  :sugoi:
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Uche_of_MFG on April 19, 2009, 08:23:47 pm
What?! No NESTS Team?!
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on April 19, 2009, 09:15:21 pm
Never was a NESTS team.  Only Krizalid returns.  Mainly because he has a lot of sprites to work with.  Neo-Dio replaced Zero because Zero was severely lacking in animation variety.  Just look at his jumping attack animations.  He's only got 2. :(  Foxy joined with Kula.

It's more like no more Eolith.  Like I said though, once the project finally hits v1.0, I may bring her back.     
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: eldarion on April 19, 2009, 10:34:08 pm
You will remove her even as "single chara" download?
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on April 19, 2009, 11:31:38 pm
Yes, since I won't be updating her.  She's a beta like everything in KOFE so she'll still need work and I won't be doing anymore on her.  the one included in v0.5 is the final update for the time being.  If anybody wants her though, I'll post her and make her available, I just won't advertise that she is available anymore. 
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Uche_of_MFG on April 20, 2009, 12:11:00 am
So who else is out? And didn't you say Saisyu Kusanagi was a mixture of Kyo Kusanagi and Iori Yagami?
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on April 20, 2009, 02:04:44 am
No one.  52 characters, same as always.  Like I said, don't wanna make a habbit of this since it's a lot of time lost per character.  Angel on the roster always bugged me a little.  Now that she's out and Saisyu's in, I feel a lot better about the line up.

Well technically Saisyu is already a go between in KOF.  Just taking it a bit further.  His SDM will be Iori's lost Wine Cups SDM and his 3 hit DM will now end off with the same fire column as Iori's close up DM.  He retains serpent wave DM and his HSDM would be a Dragon Punch variation of Kyo HSDM.  He'll be up in the next wave after Raiden programming is coded.

I'm also thinking of exchanging K's HSDM with Crimson Star Road since I like what they did with it in 2k2 UM.  I like the MotW explosion sparks better though, so I'd keep those and it would remain a moving counter.  ie) The look changes, but the mechanics stay the same.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Rikimaru on April 20, 2009, 09:18:34 am
Nooooo, I have a "lot" of friends that love K' and use him all the time and the ONE move they hated the most was Crimson Star Road and when I showed them K's HSDM that you made, they wanted to know why it wasn't in an SNK made KoF yet.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: niwaniwa on April 20, 2009, 07:49:51 pm
what is the eta on shiki :)
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on April 20, 2009, 10:15:17 pm
@ Rikimaru.  Really?  It's pretty much a copy of Freeman's, K' style.  Well maybe I'll try to touch up the current one a bit then.  I coded it when I was still pretty new to binding and there are some things about the velocities that bother me.  Maybe I'll give the final punch the black and white effect.  We'll see.

@ niwaniwa.  Just waiting for KOM.  We'll see if he gets a chance to upload it by tomorrow.  If not, maybe I'll release the temp link to her while we wait. :)

Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Rikimaru on April 21, 2009, 10:38:05 am
Too be honest, all my friends kinda hated that his Chain Drive got turned into a LDM in KoF XI but they "loved" how it looked when he elbowed them in the stomach, held there for a sec, combo'd, faded backwards to a black screen, and then ended with a heat drive.  BUT!  What you could do is have it be an "invisible" rush move where he strikes a taunt then fades away while he invisibly does a Ryuku-ranbu(Ryos rush) type rush where he starts with the stomach elbow, combos, slide fades backwards, appears behind them, and does the somewhat lame thumbs down.  Just a creative idea.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on April 21, 2009, 03:17:52 pm
That'd be too much like the SDM he currently has.  I think the thumbs down is anticlimactic of a rush and would make more impact as a stand alone.  I'll see what I can do with an edit of what I have now.  It'll be changed for the v0.6 release.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Rikimaru on April 21, 2009, 06:19:40 pm
Indeed, I kinda see your point.  Well, how about changing K's SDM to be more like that of his KoF XI LDM?  Also, if your looking for inspiration to make DM, SDM, and HSDMs flashy/unique you can watch the HSDM Expo. Vids of the new KoF 2k2 UM.  I think Nameless and/or Syo Kirishima(Kyo's Original Concept, KoF 2000 Striker) would be a great addition.  Also, just throwing this out there, I "do" have Nameless and I'd be more than happy to share him if I can see a KoFE version of him in the near future.*cries a little*.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on April 21, 2009, 09:55:17 pm
Just quoting myself here:

If in the future, once KOFE gets to version 1.0, I decide to make a new team including Ash, K9999/Nameless and another, then I'll bring her back. 

Nameless is a possibility, although I'd personally prefer K'9999 since the only thing I find cool about Nameless is his cape.  I'd like to bring Ash back and keep Angel, but I'd prefer for right now to keep the total at 52, so no promises.  We'll see how the Raiden project goes first.

I'm still standing by for KOM who's working on the full game and Shiki upload.  Would really like to give out official links instead of temp ones.  If he can't manage by today, I'll release the temp link for Shiki.

Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Rikimaru on April 21, 2009, 10:09:05 pm
Ah, I'd forgotten entirely about that.  Well, if you tweaked the moves around on Nameless or K9999, why not make the Ash/K9999/Nameless Team?  I've been playing KoFE for the past...2 hours?...and I've so far tested every char against nameless and he seems pretty solid, just need a "bit" of tweaking on where the movies hit.  Why not throw the guy doing Raider Nameless aswell?  But ya, I rather enjoy K9999 myself, all his pissed off yelling and what not but both him and Nameless in the same game would be amazing.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: YagamiC4 on April 22, 2009, 01:27:53 am
No offense Rikimaru, but you're being a little dense.

He's going to finish 1.0 first and THEN consider more characters.

And if K's LDM or HSDM is of that much concern to you, tweak it yourself.
Now chill out a little because every time this topic comes back to the top of the page I get excited at the possibility of a Shiki release.  --;
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Rikimaru on April 22, 2009, 01:34:03 am
I'm just assuming you misread something somewhere in the last few posts.  Swiper was commenting on changing K's HSDM and I was merely giving suggestions if he had wanted to change it, not whining about how its not good enough already even though it is already amazing.  I'm not really making any requests, just suggestions.  Btw, I was thinking about it and, if I may make a comparison, putting in Shermie and Yashiro without Chris is like having 3 feet and missing a shoe. :p  But then again I don't know what team your throwing yashiro and shermie on.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on April 22, 2009, 03:33:40 am
Nameless and K'9999 are too similar.  There would only be one.  Once again, not committing.  In fact, I'm stealing one of Ash's moves already and giving it to Orochi.  Depending on how things go, those characters might end up being too purged to use (like Elizabeth is now).  If I feel good about their chances, I'll make an official announcement.  Right now the chances of making it in are 40%.

End of day, me tired.  Here's Shiki:

http://www.sendspace.com/file/w5fstv (http://www.sendspace.com/file/w5fstv)

This is not an official release.  This is simply a treat for those who follow the project and the forum here.  The official release will be once KOM has completed the uploading to his server.  If you can't upload from sendspace, you'll have to wait until KOM does his thing.  Please note that there is a glitch with her HSDM when playing simul mode.  The shadow she disappears into does not scroll.  It needs to be turned into a helper.  So if it's scrolled off the screen the blood and enemy will pop up from the middle of the stage.  This is not a problem in single battles/team battles, since the camera locks positions, so it's a glitch that can be fixed at a later date.  I don't have the time yet and Shiki's other last minute fixes took me 6 hours to do on Sunday and I'm kinda pissed off at her because of it.

Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: YagamiC4 on April 22, 2009, 04:00:50 am
YES! finally, I've been following this Shiki ever since Dr.H opened up her wip topic.  Thanks for finishing her up swipergod.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Uche_of_MFG on April 22, 2009, 04:22:14 am
If you're choosing one, go for K9999. Nameless was the King of Fighters 2002: Unlimited Match replacement, and I always say "Originals are better than copies."
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on April 22, 2009, 04:38:53 am
I used most of what Dr. H had given me, but it's not the SVC accurate version he set out to do.  KOFE means KOFE coded after all.  Hopefully you still enjoy using her.

I'd kinda put it this way.  Look at the stances between K9999 and Nameless.  Which one is cooler?  K9999 just has attitude and moves with style.  He'd also only need one sprite animation edit, whereas Nameless would need multiple.  Plus I hate the glove concept behind Nameless.  The Omni power of K9999 allow for more things to play with.  Nameless isn't a bad character, but just seems like a sissy when put beside K9999.  Part of what will make or break the Ash/K9999/Nameless decision will be how Ash turns out in XII.  If he doesn't inspire me then that's pretty much it.  No Ash, no K9999/Nameless.  Anyway, that's all I'm going to say about this.  My focus for now is on Raiden and his KOF conversion.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Uche_of_MFG on April 22, 2009, 05:11:32 am
Will you consier adding the Kyo Clones into KOFE?
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Rikimaru on April 22, 2009, 09:23:21 am
Kyo clones are kinda fun, but theres no real room for them.  As for Ash, I bet there are TONS of things you can do with him.  After all, he does have Iori's Flames and Kagura's Mirror.  As for the glove, yeah even I gotta admit its kinda stupid but Nameless has the intimidation factor; black/red flames, the Krizalid suit, Kyo/K' hair.  But ya, can't wait to see Raiden, even though I was never a fan of him I'm sure you'll do something to make me add him to my favs as per usual.  :p
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Byakko on April 22, 2009, 09:29:13 pm
Plus I hate the glove concept behind Nameless.
? It's a mix of K' and K9999.
Quote
In fact, I'm stealing one of Ash's moves already and giving it to Orochi.
Which one ?

Too bad if Angel gets removed as a single download too :/
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on April 23, 2009, 12:02:28 am
Plus I hate the glove concept behind Nameless.
? It's a mix of K' and K9999.
No, I mean the removing and quickly putting back on.  IIRC K' and K9999 use the glove to control the power level, not completely nullify it.

Ash was going to have a large pillar of energy/fire as an HSDM.  Now Orochi will have this as a regular DM.  I plan on using Terry's LDM Geyser for Orochi (wasss power!).

Just don't want the burden of updating Angel at the moment.  I feel like if I release something and continue to advertise its release, i should be dedicated to fixing it should someone find a glitch.  She can still be requested, but she will no longer be KOFE.

Kyo clones = no way.  I will never even consider it.  Diversity is what Iori and Saisyu are for.  I have stated many time in this topic that I'm not a fan of alternate versions of a single character.  My philosophy is to pick one and give them the moves that they need.  If you can't fit them all into one, give them to other characters whom they would suit.  I personally think Kyo, Clone 1, Clone 2 and Kusanagi is just stupid.  Move tinkering is just lazy.  SNK should've made Syo and brought back Saisyu if they wanted to do stuff like that.

Raiden in a KOF world might be more interesting than Raiden in a Capcom world.  Honestly while CVS was fun, the Capcomized characters didn't feel like they were doing justice to their SNK counterparts.  They felt slower and weaker.  Just an opinion though.  Exceptions for the Haohmaru, Nakoruru and Hibiki whose slower gameplay felt a lot friendlier in CVS.

Nio's working on Raiden's SNK stance.  It's looking great so far.  Really gets me pumped to make Raiden. 

Chris isn't in because he's Orochi.  I've ripped apart most of his unique moves anyway and gave them to other characters.  Yashiro and Shermie are teaming up with fellow zombies Mature and Vice to form the New Orochi Team.

Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Byakko on April 23, 2009, 12:56:12 am
No, I mean the removing and quickly putting back on.  IIRC K' and K9999 use the glove to control the power level, not completely nullify it.
Oh right, that, yeah, heavily agreed. I think it might not be too hard to edit the glove back on his hand, though. But then again, it's probably more work than you care, so whatever :P
Quote
Chris isn't in because he's Orochi.  I've ripped apart most of his unique moves anyway and gave them to other characters.
His normal mode or orochi mode you mean ? Or both ? Sounds interesting, any example of which moves went to who ?
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Uche_of_MFG on April 23, 2009, 04:12:26 am
Will you consier adding the Kyo Clones into KOFE?
Kyo clones = no way.  I will never even consider it.  Diversity is what Iori and Saisyu are for.  I have stated many time in this topic that I'm not a fan of alternate versions of a single character.  My philosophy is to pick one and give them the moves that they need.  If you can't fit them all into one, give them to other characters whom they would suit.  I personally think Kyo, Clone 1, Clone 2 and Kusanagi is just stupid.  Move tinkering is just lazy.  SNK should've made Syo and brought back Saisyu if they wanted to do stuff like that.
Speaking of Syo, Ahuron made a version of Syo Kirishima. If you want to add him into KOFE, that's a good place to start.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Rikimaru on April 23, 2009, 08:19:03 am
Yeah I kinda figured you had Vice and Mature in mind.  Though I'll only somewhat miss Chris, you got a good valid reason.  Just on a personal note, I think Shiki's HSDM is a bit of overkill.  I mean, she freakin' kills the person basically. XD
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on April 23, 2009, 05:14:47 pm
Well kinda a mix of both Chris and O. Chris:

Out of the more unique moves:

Teleport belonged to Goenitz
Yashiro has the rush attacks
Krizalid gets the 3x flame shot
Xiangfei's SDM will be similar to the Fireball Rush DM
Comparisons to Kyo are obvious

Similar moves:

Ryo's leaping chop is similar to the leaping fire attack
Several characters have a close up attack similar to O Chris' and diving attack.
Mature will use the slash effect from N Chris's rising kick in her SDM
Adel's SDM will mirror Chris DM rising kicks somewhat

No one gets the Up/Down rush attacks (no one has the animation for them)
No one gets the Sp version of his DP or the '97 dp +k

Phew...

Syo will not be in since SNK never gave him an official move list, so he's not an official SNK playable character (like Diana for example).

Shiki's HSDM is supposed to harken SS.  I really toned down the blood and hits though.  Just seems savage because it's a lot of cutting. :)

Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: YagamiC4 on April 25, 2009, 09:58:42 am
Hey about deleting the helper in state 370... is this the case for Shiki also?

;Recovery
[State -1]
type = ChangeState
value = 370
triggerall = var(9) = 1
triggerall = stateno >= 5030
triggerall = canrecover
triggerall = alive
trigger1 = Vel Y > 0
trigger1 = Pos Y >= -30

Where is there a helper here?

I may just be so ignorant that I can't recognize a helper when I see one, if that's the case my apologies in advance.  :P
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on April 25, 2009, 12:01:36 pm
Nope that's AI coding.  That's how the computer quick recovers from attacks where it's free to do so.  Anything with var(9) = 1 is AI since var(9) is the AI variable.  Thanks for checking though C4, I'm sometimes in such a big rush that I can miss things. 

Here's the official release topic. 

http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=97469.0 (http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=97469.0)

Links may change if KOM can get the uploads up to his server.

FYI, for those who care, Saisyu's SDM will be changed.  He'll now do that fire stream that one of the Kyo clones does as a DM in 2k2 UM.

This will be my last day on the Mugenguild for at least 6 weeks.  Clearly, that means the project is being halted for the time being.  Feel free to report bugs and chat, but know that I won't have access to a computer so I won't be able to get back to you all until I return.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: eldarion on April 25, 2009, 01:38:52 pm
Have a good journey Swiper, and thanks for the releases
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: ARCoolguy on April 26, 2009, 08:04:27 am
good luck with Raiden he is looking pretty cool
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: MASTERMlND on April 27, 2009, 10:31:50 am
hi guys. Ive recently downloaded your KOF version of Mugen and its pretty cool. I wish it'll be completed much sooner. Anyway I have a question. Is it possible to disable the game's Debug mode? I tried editing the mugencfg file inside the data folder to disable it but it didnt work. are there other ways to do this? Thanks

Edit: What I'd like to do is Disable the buttons (Space bar, F1, F2) that restores the HP back to full and kills your opponents instantly.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on May 23, 2009, 08:44:49 am
Hi all.  As I enjoy free internet at my hotel in Athens, I feel the need to update my topic with some brief info and assure you that the project isn't dead.  I will be working on Saisyu as soon as I get back before jumping onto Raiden.  I want to have that magic 30 number for characters since Raiden will take a while to complete I think.

I will also be fixing up Mai.  She will lose her 3 fan DM and gain a diving DM (Midare Zakura).  I also don't like the Ash flames for her Kagero no Mai, so I'll work on shrinking her actual ones and swaping them.  K' HSDM will probably get minor tweaks.  I'm gonna play with some pal fx and vels and see if I can make whatever it is that's bugging me about the move disappear.  Both characters were done while I was still new to modding, so I'll see if I can't put my current knowledge to use to touch them up.

I was going to do Ralf and Clark as I worked on Raiden, but this sudden revival of Mature in KOF XII has me wanting to do Vice and Mature first.  Krizalid will also be thrown in between the two groups.  This is the plan for the summer.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: eldarion on May 23, 2009, 03:27:52 pm
Yeah, Good to have news from ya.
For Mature et Vice, good news ;)

Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: ARCoolguy on May 23, 2009, 04:02:07 pm
finally you've come back i was waiting for new characters
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Rikimaru on May 29, 2009, 12:41:35 pm
So glad your back, even more excited to hear that 4 of the best KoF Chars(Saisyu, Krizalid, Vice, and Mature) have been moved to the front line.  If I bring up an old subject, were you going to swap the double half-circle back movements to double quarter-circle backs?  I've experimented with the double hcb's on different keyboards, they have weird pick-ups.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on June 01, 2009, 11:05:25 am
Not quite back yet.  Gimme another 2 weeks.  Just filling you in with updates on what I'm planning to do when I get back.  I'm getting really pumped for Raiden.  I'll be working progressively the way c00per has suggested me to do.  Resizing and flushing the colors out.  First I'll start with the basics and move on to specials etc...  Watch for the SNK Raiden topic to be moved to projects once the core basics are redone.

Rikimaru, I'm guessing you didn't download the newest version of the game?  All special throws with hcb,f + p or k have been replaced with hcf or dp + p or k and DM throws now use hcb,f +p or k.  This is a trial phase for this new motion.

With any luck Saisyu, Mature and Vice will be completed this month.  We'll see...
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: la;MISS~FairY-! on June 01, 2009, 08:11:27 pm
Not quite back yet.  Gimme another 2 weeks.  Just filling you in with updates on what I'm planning to do when I get back.  I'm getting really pumped for Raiden.  I'll be working progressively the way c00per has suggested me to do.  Resizing and flushing the colors out.  First I'll start with the basics and move on to specials etc...  Watch for the SNK Raiden topic to be moved to projects once the core basics are redone.

Rikimaru, I'm guessing you didn't download the newest version of the game?  All special throws with hcb,f + p or k have been replaced with hcf or dp + p or k and DM throws now use hcb,f +p or k.  This is a trial phase for this new motion.

With any luck Saisyu, Mature and Vice will be completed this month.  We'll see...
Can't wait for you to be back!!!

You need to send me Kula again. I lost the files unfortunately >.O Luckily I have most of her AI, though. So jumpstarting it will take no time at all.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Rikimaru on June 02, 2009, 10:35:45 pm
To be honost, I didn't bother downloading the new version since I'd always kept up with the updates. :p  I am now though
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on June 06, 2009, 12:43:31 am
Since I'm approaching the under 20 characters left mark and there isn't much system tweaking left, I don't think I'll be releasing another fullgame release until the end.  I can't 100% say for sure, but I don't really see the point at the moment.  Most characters are all tweaked up. 

Although I'm not yet officially back, I did finish Mai's update.  There will be a video that will go up for the updates at some point.  Just switched the fire for her D, u +k move and gave her the air dive DM.

Missfairy, I'm glad that you're still up for doing some AI.  I'll get Kula to you as soon as I can.  And yes, you better believed that I missed you too. ;)
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on June 07, 2009, 11:26:52 pm
Okay, back from my trip and got hooked up with internet a lot faster than I thought I'd be.  I'll slowly start getting back into my project.  Mai's update is complete like I said.  She can be downloaded from my site.

Here's a vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ag3yC5DBeM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ag3yC5DBeM)

I'm almost finished Saisyu.  Just have his HSDM left to finish.  Expect a vid in the next day or two.  Once he's done, I'll begin my Raiden project.  He's gonna be covered in his own separate topic, but just to explain the KOFE version, here's what I'm looking to do with him:

Command attack:

Step Headbutt

Special attacks:

Leaping Release Powerbomb (I will try to SNK-ize the velocities)
Poison Mist (Using Lin's poison breath effect)
Leaping Headbutt Explode (This was a move in FFWA)
Should Tackle (Will be SNK style where he switches shoulders upon contact)
Flying Clothesline (Will try to SNK-ize this one too)

DMs:

Thunder Fist (Creates a current of electricity that runs along the ground.  A mod of his FFWA move)
Rolling Thunderbomb (Does that roll from XII before leaping and powerbombing)

SDM:

Rolling Thunder Crusher (Rolls into a leaping toss that'll resemble Hugo's Megaton Press)

HSDM:

Fire Breath (Will work like Chin's SDM version from KOF)

I'm still looking for a spriter to help me convert the CVS to SNK too.  If you want to help or know someone who'd like to help please get in touch with me.  Thanks!

Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: kaymex on June 07, 2009, 11:52:51 pm
YOUR MAI IS VERY COOL  :o
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: ARCoolguy on June 08, 2009, 11:25:40 am
When will Raiden be completed
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on June 09, 2009, 12:20:01 am
Thanks for the Mai compliment.  I thought the new DM would suit her better.

I can't really put a timeline on Raiden's completion since I don't have a committed Spriter.  Without someone to convert the sprites there really isn't much point in releasing him.  I'm not too concerned about that, but I do expect it to take a long while.  Since I'm doing some sprite conversion it'll take a lot longer than simple programing does.  My part will probably be a few weeks depending on whether or not I stop to do Vice and Mature before completing his programming.

Anyway...

Finished Saisyu: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIvxdzxCGN4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIvxdzxCGN4)

It's standard KOFE fair at this point.  New DMs, few changes to specials and so on.  A thing that I would like to point out is that is kick special and punch DM have autoguard and his SDM is in fact 2 projectiles (second one doesn't come out if he's hit out of the first one).  I'm sure you can see the "in between" gameplay I was going for between Iori and Kyo.  Hope you like him.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: la;MISS~FairY-! on June 09, 2009, 07:57:36 pm
Hmmmm, what are you going to do with vice and mature? =o
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on June 09, 2009, 11:08:44 pm
Not too much is going to change with them.  Vice will get a brand new HSDM and use Mithan's Robe as an anti-air throw.  She'll lose her standing Blackend grapple, but will be able to chain Gore Fest into her Mithan's Robe instead.  Mature will lose her decided and gain a new DM.  Heaven's gate will be upgraded to an HSDM.  Both's SDM will be slightly modified.  That's pretty much it.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: la;MISS~FairY-! on June 09, 2009, 11:21:27 pm
Not too much is going to change with them.  Vice will get a brand new HSDM and use Mithan's Robe as an anti-air throw.  She'll lose her standing Blackend grapple, but will be able to chain Gore Fest into her Mithan's Robe instead.  Mature will lose her decided and gain a new DM.  Heaven's gate will be upgraded to an HSDM.  Both's SDM will be slightly modified.  That's pretty much it.
Hmmm. Does Mature really need nerfed like that?

I await them both. :P Throw me a pm when you're free and let me know what's up with stuff, too. (If you like :)
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Rikimaru on June 09, 2009, 11:30:53 pm
WOW!  Just.... WOW!  Your Saisyu is amazing.  Please tell me when can I download it? xD
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on June 10, 2009, 04:08:25 am
PM thrown.  How could you doubt that I would like Mugen Queen.   ;)  Not really nerfing Mature.  You'll see when I start working on her.  She still fits the KOFE requirements and will still feel very Mature-ish.  SNK nerfed Mature in XII a lot worse.

Glad you like Saisyu.  He will be released over the weekend.  I'm switching gears to Raiden for a day or two to figure out how much I can output from him following c00per's advice.  I'll get back to Saisyu and finish his AI after that.  Then he'll be good to go.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on June 14, 2009, 05:29:29 pm
Saisyu release topic: http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=100303.0 (http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=100303.0)

Go get him!

Working on Raiden right now.  Have some non-KOFE related issues I'm sorting out, so his progress isn't moving that quickly.  Hope that'll change for next weekend.  Also changed Rugal's reppuken.  Now uses the KOF 2k2 UM Normal Geese reppuken sprites.  Gives him a little '94-'95 feel I think.  Haven't posted the Rugal update yet though...
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Dark Symphony on June 14, 2009, 07:26:34 pm
TO be fair, you can't really say someone is nerfed until you've seen how they perform in game compared to other characters. Taking away moves =/= nerfing as Foxy could have dominated KOF 2001 with, like, 4 moves. And that includes normal attacks.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on June 15, 2009, 02:19:37 am
My understanding of nerfing was removing something to lessen the effectiveness or desirability of a character (taken straight from wikipedia lol).  Toning them down as it were.  Removing moves, to my understanding, is nerfing as the more moves a character has, the more effective they can be.  This isn't to say that that character isn't still going to be a bitch to fight against with less moves or that they won't be effective in general, just that they'll be less effective then they could have been.  So in KOF XII, SNK nerfed a lot of characters in comparison to other KOFs.  Hopefully for balancing issues, or perhaps to return to the basics.  Then again, they just may have run out of time to make more moves for everyone.   :sugoi:
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on June 18, 2009, 02:30:19 am
So here's the good news.  Missfairy's been developing a new AI system.  It makes more use of the strengths of the moves and spams the rolls less.  It helps make it smarter.  We've tested it with Rugal so far and it's been great.  The idea is to implement it in all the characters and have more balanced fights and less "cheapness" and less frustrating for players. :)  This should also fix the characters that were using hybrid AIs.  Way to go Missfairy.

I'm still working on Raiden's sprites for basics.  Week's really slow thanks to overtime at work.  I'm hoping to finish all the resizing and basic coding this weekend.  Then I'll have something to show in the SNK Raiden topic.  Note that the non-KOFE version of SNK Raiden will be based off of KOF '98 advanced style mechanics.  I'll used '98 Goro to assist with giving me an idea for 2 in 1s and throw ranges.

Cheers.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Uche_of_MFG on June 18, 2009, 08:46:22 am
Looks like Raiden and KOFE are heading our to a good start. Excellent work, swipergod. We're rooting for you!!!

 :afro: :bandana: :army: :biker: :drummer: :guitarist: :singer: :sultan: :sultan: :indian_brave: :indian_chief: :toff: :hat: :hat2: :helmet: :stooge_curly: :stooge_larry: :stooge_moe: :karate: :kid: :hair: :hair2: :baby: <====KOFE Fans: Horray for the KOFE team!!!!
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on June 20, 2009, 10:10:21 pm
Well, posted the Raiden topic.  His basics are almost done.  Once I've completed them, I'll work on his gethit sprites.  When those are done, I'll take a break and come back to KOFE to do Mature (most likely) and possibly Vice right after, before I start Raiden's basic attacks.  Once those are done, I'll focus on Goentiz.

I found a glitch in the common1.cns for KOFE that allowed characters to attack while doing a back hop.  I've eliminated it.  Other than that, all the focus is on Raiden at the moment.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Dark Symphony on June 21, 2009, 01:03:01 pm
My understanding of nerfing was removing something to lessen the effectiveness or desirability of a character (taken straight from wikipedia lol).  Toning them down as it were.  Removing moves, to my understanding, is nerfing as the more moves a character has, the more effective they can be.  This isn't to say that that character isn't still going to be a bitch to fight against with less moves or that they won't be effective in general, just that they'll be less effective then they could have been.  So in KOF XII, SNK nerfed a lot of characters in comparison to other KOFs.  Hopefully for balancing issues, or perhaps to return to the basics.  Then again, they just may have run out of time to make more moves for everyone.   :sugoi:

We both know this is harmless nitpicking so I'll add some more...

Removing a move isn't a nerf. There are actually situations where removing a move can be beneficial (see: Overlapping commands. Man, it would ahve been cool if Nina didn't have that taunt in DBD that kept interrupting my movements).

Also, if a character loses moves but gains new ones in return that make the character better, even if they have a lesser number of moves, it's not a nerf.

Nerfing is also relative. No character in KOFXII is nerfed because KOFXII is the first game using those iterations of those characters. You can't compare 95 or XI Kyo to XII Kyo because XII Kyo is dealing with a completely different set up than those characters.

What if we, say, remove all of Joe's special moves but make his jab unblockable and instant kill? Is he still nerfed because he lost all of those moves?

Nerfing is relative and considers the game as a whole. Nerfing has nothing to do with "desirability" as that is an abstract/objective concept that oft times isn't based on in-game prowess.

Nerfing is simply taking a character, comparatively speaking, and making them worse compared to comparable standards previously set. Because XII is a revamp, we can't really compare the characters to their other selves. And top match play hardly ever uses all moves anyway... Unles they have very few (K9999).

My little input...
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on June 22, 2009, 06:02:40 am
I agree that nerfing is relative, but to your point about revamping making it difficult to compare, I'd point this out.  Everyone knows Gouki from Capcom.  If SNK had ported him over to KOF, gave him crazy priority, but removed some of his trademark moves like the Raging demon, regardless of the fact that he'd be in a new environment, I still think people would feel he was nerfed.  I can't see someone like Mature thriving with such a limited arsenal.  Sure the system is new, but I think that the more moves you have at your disposal, the more varied your fight can be and the more jams you can fight your way out of.  That's kinda the basis behind KOFE's balance.  Removing as many limitations as possible.  I think SNK would have given some characters more moves if they'd had more time, which is why this'll probably be like KOF '03 in terms of a starting point, but the end result means that characters aren't what they could've been and thus, are nerfed.

I will be focusing on my Raiden project, which means that Mature and Vice will probably have to wait until next month to get done.  Kinda excited about bringing Raiden to KOF.  So hopefully that'll translate into a quicker completion time for his resizing and programming.  :)
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Margouki on June 24, 2009, 04:40:08 am
Hi Swipergod, first, excuse my english, is poor  :'(, But well, i just want to say thank you for those great chars, i have all of them (like everybody i think.. :)) and well, keep going that way, we'll been waiting more chars, and if you can include Gouki, i'll appreciate, or better, Shin Gouki  :sugoi:
Anyway, thanks, and CONGRATULATIONS!!!, You are the best.

Note: Raiden is a great char, and you are doing a great job with him, Congratulations too.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on June 24, 2009, 03:50:54 pm
Thank you Margouki.  Those are some really nice words.  :D  I had considered adding Gouki into the project twice, but ultimately decided against it for now.  With all the special entries (Shiki and Neo-Dio), Gouki isn't a complete cast off, but it depends if I can find another character to round off the roster again.  With KOF XII around the corner, I have the urge to re-add Ash to the list, but I won't commit to any more characters at the moment.

Keep checking the Raiden topic for more Raiden info.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: ARCoolguy on June 24, 2009, 05:51:23 pm
I would like to ask how much progress is there in Rock Howard I would like to see a good Rock Howard in Mugen since I do not like any of the other Rock Howards
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: GT on June 24, 2009, 06:22:03 pm
Wait... What?
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on June 25, 2009, 12:32:43 am
I'll be basing my Rock off of Jin's.  It's a decent Rock.  There's a vid of the alpha of Rock on my youtube page if you want to see him (did him a long time ago), but I probably won't be finishing him now until more towards the end.  Aside from Orochi and possibly Adel, the MotW characters will be done at the very end.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Dark Symphony on June 25, 2009, 04:44:12 am
I agree that nerfing is relative, but to your point about revamping making it difficult to compare, I'd point this out.  Everyone knows Gouki from Capcom.  If SNK had ported him over to KOF, gave him crazy priority, but removed some of his trademark moves like the Raging demon, regardless of the fact that he'd be in a new environment, I still think people would feel he was nerfed.  I can't see someone like Mature thriving with such a limited arsenal.  Sure the system is new, but I think that the more moves you have at your disposal, the more varied your fight can be and the more jams you can fight your way out of.  That's kinda the basis behind KOFE's balance.  Removing as many limitations as possible.  I think SNK would have given some characters more moves if they'd had more time, which is why this'll probably be like KOF '03 in terms of a starting point, but the end result means that characters aren't what they could've been and thus, are nerfed.

I will be focusing on my Raiden project, which means that Mature and Vice will probably have to wait until next month to get done.  Kinda excited about bringing Raiden to KOF.  So hopefully that'll translate into a quicker completion time for his resizing and programming.  :)

I totally agree that people would think an Akuma without the Raging Demon = nerfed Akuma.

However, them thinking that just means they're thinking that and they're wrong. People really have to stop looking at number of moves to mean anything. If a character has 20 TERRIBLE moves and crappy normals etc., the character is terrible. With that established ,we can see that it's not about the "number of moves."

SF's Guile has survived, really, on two special moves and really stumps people as to what he possibly could be given besides those moves that wouldn't be useless filler since those two moves pretty much cover all the bases (no pun intended). K9999 may not have been the best in the games he appeared in, but he wasn't a slouch and didn't need more than 2 then 3 special moves to hand out packages of grade A grief. In fact, he relied mostly on command moves to do so.

Having a lot of moves that provide options over a number of situations DOES make a character better, but it's the effectiveness of those moves that determines that, not the number. Because there's nothing that says one move can't do many things. Dragon punch moves in many cases (particularly with the light versions) serve as both a good anti air, good combo filler, a good defensive move to counter rush AND good wake-up.

You COULD spread that over 4 moves but the character wouldn't be any more effective. In fact, they'd be LESS effective because that's 3 extra things the brain has to register.

I guess my point is that it's not about the moves or number of moves but how effective what the character has is. There is absolutely nothing that won't allow Mature from dominating with two, even one move.

I think, in the community of MUGEN, the common consensus is that more moves = better. I am just trying to show that there's a disconnect between # of moves and effectiveness and that a characters ability isn't proportional to the number of moves they have. A good right amount of Mugen characters (not speaking of present company) are directionless simply because they just... have things. There's no thought into purpose.

And lastly, more moves = harder to balance. So you have to find the right balance between effectiveness and interest. A character still has to be interesting.

I think that the quicker a person realizes that moves can be added to a character for "fun factor" the better.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on June 25, 2009, 05:59:02 am

Having a lot of moves that provide options over a number of situations DOES make a character better, but it's the effectiveness of those moves that determines that, not the number. Because there's nothing that says one move can't do many things. Dragon punch moves in many cases (particularly with the light versions) serve as both a good anti air, good combo filler, a good defensive move to counter rush AND good wake-up.


Agreed.  Never any disagreement there.  More effective moves a character has, the better.  We're looking at this fact because SNK removed a lot of useful moves from characters in XII.

Games and balance in general in my view rely on a more complex "Rock, Paper, Scissor" theme.  See, if I made a Rugal and took away all his moves except Gen Cutter, but made it completely invincible on the way up, he wouldn't be as effective regardless because every move has a weakness.  In this case Gen Cutter has wiff that can be capitalized on.  To "play it safe", someone would need a projectile to throw him off and limit his cutter and suddenly they would have the advantage.  But, if Rugal had a projectile, then the playing field tips in his favor.  You continue the cycle from there.  A game with good balance will return full circle.  When you just have hadokens and sonic booms, yes the game is balanced in accordance to its own limitations, but you negate the other scenarios you fighter could find themselves in, making that balance superficial and gameplay "lower".

More moves != better. A more balanced moveset = better gameplay.  The problem I have with Mugen is that some creators will give a character 3 different close attacks that all serve the same function.  This breaks the circle and makes the additional moves superficial.  That's what I'm trying to avoid with my game, but keeping characters movesets limited to one or two moves, still limits their gameplay, even if those moves are good enough to complete the circle "on paper".  It's a step back when you evolve gameplay to a point and then start taking away from everyone.

In the end though, it seems that this is just a case of opinions.  My opinion of balance and efficiency differ from yours.  I claim that characters in XII were nerfed.  Just a claim, that's pretty much it.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Bastard Mami on June 25, 2009, 06:04:11 am
that reminds me of kof2k1 foxy.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Dark Symphony on June 25, 2009, 10:41:26 pm
I agree that nerfing is relative, but to your point about revamping making it difficult to compare, I'd point this out.  Everyone knows Gouki from Capcom.  If SNK had ported him over to KOF, gave him crazy priority, but removed some of his trademark moves like the Raging demon, regardless of the fact that he'd be in a new environment, I still think people would feel he was nerfed.  I can't see someone like Mature thriving with such a limited arsenal.  Sure the system is new, but I think that the more moves you have at your disposal, the more varied your fight can be and the more jams you can fight your way out of.  That's kinda the basis behind KOFE's balance.  Removing as many limitations as possible.  I think SNK would have given some characters more moves if they'd had more time, which is why this'll probably be like KOF '03 in terms of a starting point, but the end result means that characters aren't what they could've been and thus, are nerfed.

I will be focusing on my Raiden project, which means that Mature and Vice will probably have to wait until next month to get done.  Kinda excited about bringing Raiden to KOF.  So hopefully that'll translate into a quicker completion time for his resizing and programming.  :)

I totally agree that people would think an Akuma without the Raging Demon = nerfed Akuma.

However, them thinking that just means they're thinking that and they're wrong. People really have to stop looking at number of moves to mean anything. If a character has 20 TERRIBLE moves and crappy normals etc., the character is terrible. With that established ,we can see that it's not about the "number of moves."

SF's Guile has survived, really, on two special moves and really stumps people as to what he possibly could be given besides those moves that wouldn't be useless filler since those two moves pretty much cover all the bases (no pun intended). K9999 may not have been the best in the games he appeared in, but he wasn't a slouch and didn't need more than 2 then 3 special moves to hand out packages of grade A grief. In fact, he relied mostly on command moves to do so.

Having a lot of moves that provide options over a number of situations DOES make a character better, but it's the effectiveness of those moves that determines that, not the number. Because there's nothing that says one move can't do many things. Dragon punch moves in many cases (particularly with the light versions) serve as both a good anti air, good combo filler, a good defensive move to counter rush AND good wake-up.

You COULD spread that over 4 moves but the character wouldn't be any more effective. In fact, they'd be LESS effective because that's 3 extra things the brain has to register.

I guess my point is that it's not about the moves or number of moves but how effective what the character has is. There is absolutely nothing that won't allow Mature from dominating with two, even one move.

I think, in the community of MUGEN, the common consensus is that more moves = better. I am just trying to show that there's a disconnect between # of moves and effectiveness and that a characters ability isn't proportional to the number of moves they have. A good right amount of Mugen characters (not speaking of present company) are directionless simply because they just... have things. There's no thought into purpose.

And lastly, more moves = harder to balance. So you have to find the right balance between effectiveness and interest. A character still has to be interesting.

I think that the quicker a person realizes that moves can be added to a character for "fun factor" the better.


Indeed, less moves can very well take away from a character as far as how interesting that character is. But then again, you think of the staple Guile and how he really doesn't need much else.

Giving Rugal only the Genocide Cutter isn't a nerf. Giving him no way to deal with projectilers would be the nerf. Because we could easily make the Gen Cutter be invincible to and reflect projectiles.

Or he could very well lose all moves save for he G Cutter but be put in a game where there are no projectiles.

I guess that's the case with XII... It's new with a whole new build and thus no previous iterations of the characters really mean anything because you can't have XI Kyo in XII. XII could be put together in such a fashion that a character with two moves could dominate better than a character in XI who has 7.

A character's effectiveness is simply relative to his competition. I mean, XII Duo Lon, on paper, basically lost his least useful move and had it replaced with a far more practical version. But the changes to the properties of his existing moves didn't allow him to run rampant over the cast like he could in 03.

Malin had the same deal. Even though her shock stix were made better, not being able to have two Yo Yos and losing that ridiculous jump nerfed her ability.

I guess my point is that it absolutely has nothing to do with number of moves. As such, no one was really nerfed in XII due to their movesets because there is no other versions of those characters in their current forms and capability is relative to competition.





Back on topic.... Do you still plan to use Hotaru? That was the character I was most interested in seeing.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on June 27, 2009, 05:53:10 pm
MotW team:  Hotaru, Gato, Rock, Jenet  ;D

I'm starting to see a big demand for the MotW characters.  I was planning on working on them last, but perhaps after I do Ralf, Clark, Mature and Vice, I'll get to them.  Can't give a timeline yet as I am committed to finishing Raiden's programming first.  My guess would be in the fall though.  Both Hotaru and Jenet require edits to their Sexy KOs, which will also take me time.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on June 28, 2009, 06:12:36 pm
Did minor tweaks to Benimaru and gave Mr. Big a new jump in intro (for team battles) that looks pretty cool.  I'm feeling the strong desire to complete a character now.  I think I'll finish Raiden's SP basics and then start on Mature.  Raiden's still got a ways to go and I want a new roster member in the meantime.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on June 29, 2009, 02:55:02 am
Screw it.  Got impatient and started Vice.  Her basics are already finished. :P

Will get back to Raiden once she's done.  Just want to play a new character and Raiden's gonna take another couple of weeks at least.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Uche_of_MFG on June 29, 2009, 03:54:15 am
I could tell. That post took a lot shorter than the last one.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: ARCoolguy on June 29, 2009, 12:27:47 pm
Screw it.  Got impatient and started Vice.  Her basics are already finished. :P

Will get back to Raiden once she's done.  Just want to play a new character and Raiden's gonna take another couple of weeks at least.

So where are screenshots and/or video
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on June 29, 2009, 02:55:00 pm
Just the basics are done right now.  Nothing to write home about.  I usually only take screenshots of specials and DMs or special intros.  Never post a vid until a character is done.  Raiden's an exception because he's more a ground up creation as opposed to a mod.  I'd expect Raiden's basics and Vice (all) to be done by the weekend so expect vids by then.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: ARCoolguy on June 29, 2009, 03:17:28 pm
Hmmmm I hope they are done fast so that you can get to the Garou team
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on July 02, 2009, 02:27:02 pm
Garou Team isn't likely until the fall.  There's no fast way to do Raiden with my current schedule.  Still have to do Mature too and possibly Maxima (I just want to get him done).

Since I've done a couple of updates, I figured I'd share the pics of them.  First, Rugal's Reppuken has changed (as I mentioned before).  Wk and Sk versions are different sizes, but only have differences in damage and velocity.  I pretty much worked all day on sprite editing Karate.  I created a new intro (his neck cracking one from '98 onward) and took the old intro and made it into a special intro with Mr. Big.  I conceived a special intro for every character now since a few characters had no special intro.  Big was one of them.  Rock and Jenet (for Jenet) will now have a special intro with each other, I'm thinking Eiji and Gato (for Eiji) will have a special intro and Raiden and Billy (for Raiden) will have a special intro.  Also released an update of Mai a while back with a new DM and fire effect for her column.  Just figured I'd post a pic since it was an update an all.

Once I get further along with Vice, I'll post picks.  Just fyi, I'll been using some '96 sprites for both Vice and Mature to further accent the differences between them.

SP Reppuken by Rugal.  I love the 2k2 UM Reppuken sprites!  WP is smaller.  Adel will use Rugal's old Reppuken sprites.
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj119/swipergod/mugen4-1.jpg)

Art of Fighting Fans rejoice!  As Krauser and Geese have a special intro now so do Big and Karate!
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj119/swipergod/mugen5-1.jpg)

Mai's old school flames replace Ash's style.  Shrank the column a bit from DM size.
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj119/swipergod/mugen6-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Ragnaroc444 on July 02, 2009, 02:38:21 pm
Garou Team isn't likely until the fall.  There's no fast way to do Raiden with my current schedule.  Still have to do Mature too and possibly Maxima (I just want to get him done).

Since I've done a couple of updates, I figured I'd share the pics of them.  First, Rugal's Reppuken has changed (as I mentioned before).  Wk and Sk versions are different sizes, but only have differences in damage and velocity.  I pretty much worked all day on sprite editing Karate.  I created a new intro (his neck cracking one from '98 onward) and took the old intro and made it into a special intro with Mr. Big.  I conceived a special intro for every character now since a few characters had no special intro.  Big was one of them.  Rock and Jenet (for Jenet) will now have a special intro with each other, I'm thinking Eiji and Gato (for Eiji) will have a special intro and Raiden and Billy (for Raiden) will have a special intro. 

Once I get further along with Vice, I'll post picks.  Just fyi, I'll been using some '96 sprites for both Vice and Mature to further accent the differences between them.

SP Reppuken by Rugal.  I love the 2k2 UM Reppuken sprites!  WP is smaller.  Adel will use Rugal's old Reppuken sprites.
http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj119/swipergod/mugen4-1.jpg (http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj119/swipergod/mugen4-1.jpg)

Art of Fighting Fans rejoice!  As Krauser and Geese have a special intro now so do Big and Karate!
http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj119/swipergod/mugen5-1.jpg (http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj119/swipergod/mugen5-1.jpg)


DDDDDUUUUUUUUUUUDDDDDDDEEEEEEE!!!!!!!! JUST soz i'll turn capz off *ahem* that is fucking amazing (also soz for language but it's worht it even if i get banned...) that must've taken atleast almost 2 years i mena you WORK right? and you got family aswell? i mean WTF THIS IS AWESOME and espicially you've been doing this for probably hours a day (most likely 6 lol) and wtf!? amazing az bro lol same life bars as me hehe :)
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on July 02, 2009, 06:42:28 pm
This November will mark the 2nd anniversary of this project.  I'm hoping by the 2nd anniversary of the 1st release of the project next May to have the first beta completed and ready for full scale testing.  It's possible, but really depends on a lot of things.  Typically I work on this project about 4 days a week and average out about 4-5 hours a day.  Sometimes though, I don't touch it in a week at all.  Depends.  Sprite work is a killer for me as it absorbs so much time.  I've ripped over 1500 sprites for this game alone the old fashioned way and edited probably over 100 (not counting Raiden).  I'm sure my time consuming technique could be cut, but I have no idea how, and I'm comfortable with it.  I can't say I've done this project alone, but the vast majority of programming and such is done by me and takes a bit longer due to my need to create a satisfying character and eventually a satisfying full game.

I'm just glad my efforts are appreciated by so many people. Thanks everyone :)

P.S. The lifebars will be replaced.  Not any time soon, but they will be.  Not very KOF imo.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Ragnaroc444 on July 03, 2009, 02:28:32 am
This November will mark the 2nd anniversary of this project.  I'm hoping by the 2nd anniversary of the 1st release of the project next May to have the first beta completed and ready for full scale testing.  It's possible, but really depends on a lot of things.  Typically I work on this project about 4 days a week and average out about 4-5 hours a day.  Sometimes though, I don't touch it in a week at all.  Depends.  Sprite work is a killer for me as it absorbs so much time.  I've ripped over 1500 sprites for this game alone the old fashioned way and edited probably over 100 (not counting Raiden).  I'm sure my time consuming technique could be cut, but I have no idea how, and I'm comfortable with it.  I can't say I've done this project alone, but the vast majority of programming and such is done by me and takes a bit longer due to my need to create a satisfying character and eventually a satisfying full game.

I'm just glad my efforts are appreciated by so many people. Thanks everyone :)

P.S. The lifebars will be replaced.  Not any time soon, but they will be.  Not very KOF imo.

wow time consumer lol anyways i realy appreciate this and i will download this straight away you know :) and anyways you work so much ;)

P.S i like the way those life bars Glow one of the best in Mugen Virtua Fighter 5 Inspired i believe ;)
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on July 04, 2009, 07:17:17 pm
A few things to touch up on.  Vice's basic attacks are now complete.  I'll work on her intros, victories and throws next.  She'll have a special intro with Iori and Mature.  Gonna have some fun and say that Vice and Mature don't get along anymore since Iori kicked their asses (since I guess he didn't kill them), and base their intro on that. :)

Have to touch up a new Mr. Big intro and might be switching Benimaru's moves around a bit.  He'd lose the Genri Hurricane, his lightning dash would be bumped up to a DM like in CVS and he'd gain his Slash special from '03-XI.  This change would dampen his juggling ability, so I'm not sure yet.  Kinda prepping for Ash, since I probably will re-add him to the mix along.  Still not sure yet...  XII is just getting all pumped up for KOF again.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: BigBoss on July 04, 2009, 07:22:14 pm
A few things to touch up on.  Vice's basic attacks are now complete.  I'll work on her intros, victories and throws next.  She'll have a special intro with Iori and Mature.  Gonna have some fun and say that Vice and Mature don't get along anymore since Iori kicked their asses (since I guess he didn't kill them), and base their intro on that. :)

Have to touch up a new Mr. Big intro and might be switching Benimaru's moves around a bit.  He'd lose the Genri Hurricane, his lightning dash would be bumped up to a DM like in CVS and he'd gain his Slash special from '03-XI.  This change would dampen his juggling ability, so I'm not sure yet.  Kinda prepping for Ash, since I probably will re-add him to the mix along.  Still not sure yet...  XII is just getting all pumped up for KOF again.

I realize this is far offtopic, But what lifebars are those?
Also is there going to be a No-Masked Mr. Karate?
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on July 04, 2009, 08:14:45 pm
Currently using the Virtua Fighter 5 inspired lifebars.  I realize they don't suit KOF.  I'll change them eventually.

There won't be any alternate versions of characters.  I picked the Tengu mask version because this is Takuma's boss incarnation.  My preference for KOFE's Rugal would've been his Omega Rugal look, but there's a lot of sprites that Ahuron didn't convert, so it stays as his '94 look for now.  :-\
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Mgbenz on July 04, 2009, 08:18:17 pm
Also is there going to be a No-Masked Mr. Karate?

Without the mask he would just be Takuma. Mr. Karate w/o a mask would be older Ryo.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: BigBoss on July 04, 2009, 09:26:50 pm
Also is there going to be a No-Masked Mr. Karate?

Without the mask he would just be Takuma. Mr. Karate w/o a mask would be older Ryo.


I don't care enough to tell the difference between the two.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on July 05, 2009, 07:47:08 pm
Well alternate attires is something to consider (alternate SFF).  Maybe I'll do that later on.  Thinking characters would play the same and maybe just have 1 intro and 1 victory pose.  Characters with alternate attires that I can think of would be:

Terry, Ryo, Kyo, Iori (Orochi or Another?), Benimaru, Karake (Takuma), Andy, Robert, Leona (Orochi), Athena (98?), Kensou, King, Billy, Yamazaki, Geese (I think there's a Nightmare KOF version out there), Rugal (Omega), K' (? Think I saw a shirtless K around somewhere).

Ralf and Clark
Yes they do, but I hate their old look.

Don't have time right now, but once the roster's a little more full, it's something I'd consider.  Working on Vice and finished 2 specials:

WK version of her Decide.  New animation (from zzzasd's version).  Has less range, but is faster than the SK version (has original animation).
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj119/swipergod/wee.jpg)

Gorefest.  Benefit of a fullgame allows me to have Vice scrape the opponent's face like in KOF. :)
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj119/swipergod/drag.jpg)
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on July 05, 2009, 11:38:50 pm
Vice's specials and 1 DM are done.  Her HSDM will take a bit since there are sprite to rip for it.  Next weekend she should be finished.  Then I'll start Mature.  Raiden will chug along.  I'll do his dropkick and basic throws next and then do his anti-air grab. :)

Note that Vice won't be released until Mature is done.  Why?  Because I'm a big meanie.   :sugoi:
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Uche_of_MFG on July 06, 2009, 12:06:12 am
Vice's specials and 1 DM are done.  Her HSDM will take a bit since there are sprite to rip for it.  Next weekend she should be finished.  Then I'll start Mature.  Raiden will chug along.  I'll do his dropkick and basic throws next and then do his anti-air grab. :)

Note that Vice won't be released until Mature is done.  Why?  Because I'm a big meanie.   :sugoi:
Nice lie, swipergod. You're a softie at heart. Vice can not go without Mature. It is just impossible.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: ARCoolguy on July 07, 2009, 02:30:17 pm
Hmmm you cannot download Nio- Dio in your website
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on July 08, 2009, 12:49:38 am
Yeah, I haven't uploaded the new links yet.  Mainly because I don't have the time to reupload everyone.  If you need Neo-Dio I'll post him up on my site later this week.

I don't plan to do any full scale project things until I complete the following:

Update Benimaru with new moves
Finish Vice
Finish resizing and programming Raiden.
Finish Maxima (already started him...)
Finish Mature

I have a big exam to do on Thursday, so nothing's really going to happen until then.  Once all this is done (probably a month or so away), I plan on re-uploading the site stuff, updating the PDF and updating the game credits.  Then it's break time!  Then Goenitz.  After summer's over I'll start the MotW team.  Cheers.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Rikimaru on July 08, 2009, 07:06:25 pm
So Benimaru is getting new moves?  What is changing?  Also, HUZZAH Goenitz!  If only I could find a way to fight Goenitz only.  xD  Everytime I play I set it to 3man teams but I dont like facing 3 bosses, not conventional KoF lol
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on July 09, 2009, 01:19:12 am
Read reply 866 above to see what changes will be occurring with Benimaru.  I'll being revising him on the weekend and releasing the update shortly after.  There's no AI changes that need to happen since the moves are pretty similar (unlike Mai's DM change).

Made the Bosses in KOFE with that in mind.  If you could have a team up on one character situation in arcade mode, I might have tried to make them cheaper (perhaps increase their armor).  Still personally keeping an eye out on the mugen related engines being constructed out there.  As soon as one has reached a complete version release, I'll try to port the game over.  I'd love to have online play and an option for 4 human players in simul/tag mode.  Sigh, one day...

Speaking of Tag.  Since I haven't been coding these past few days I've been conceptualizing KOFE's tag mode.  I'm definitely trying to stay away from infinites and trying to be lighter on the combo side than XI.  Here's what I'm thinking:

Tagging in and out will cost 1 super.  This way tagging will be used sparingly instead of abusively. Plus there will be no chance to do a massive combo into an HSDM.  I think that'd be too broken.

Tagging itself would be an instant escape for the player leaving the fight as they would become invincible.  The player coming in would do a jumping attack that knocks the opponent into the air for a quick juggle.  The kick would have high priority, but the player coming into the fight can be attacked.  In the event that a player dies, his replacement would leap in without an attack (since that could be easily telegraphed).

Life will recover at about 1/100 of a bar a second.

While I have no interest in doing strikers as I just find such a system too broken, I may go the XvsSF route where you could bring in a partner in via a counter attack at the cost of an the cost of 1 additional super or via dual attack at the cost of all 3 supers. 

I think it would make for a great alternative gameplay, although I'm not sure how to make both characters in simul playable by the same player in a 1 player game.  Any suggestions are welcome.  I might give this code a shot after I finish Mature.

I welcome thoughts on this.

Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on July 10, 2009, 02:23:28 am
Benimaru's updates are almost finished.  Just doing some spite editing from his 03 to his 02.  I figure the changes should be finished tomorrow.  That'll give me the weekend to finish Vice and work on Raiden a bit (finish dropkick and throws).  Right on schedule.  :sugoi:
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Uche_of_MFG on July 10, 2009, 02:31:43 am
Benimaru's updates are almost finished.  Just doing some spite editing from his 03 to his 02.  I figure the changes should be finished tomorrow.  That'll give me the weekend to finish Vice and work on Raiden a bit (finish dropkick and throws).  Right on schedule.  :sugoi:
Speaking of Raiden, will he have any special introductions?
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: ARCoolguy on July 11, 2009, 12:24:24 am
Benimaru's updates are almost finished.  Just doing some spite editing from his 03 to his 02.  I figure the changes should be finished tomorrow.  That'll give me the weekend to finish Vice and work on Raiden a bit (finish dropkick and throws).  Right on schedule.  :sugoi:

Hmmm at least the garou team will be released at the start of school
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on July 11, 2009, 09:40:41 am
Benimaru's update is done.  His 03 move is slightly different in KOFE.  The weak version doesn't release a spark, but is very fast.  I think Benimaru's overall power has weakened because of the change (no pop up juggle), but he does feel more solide than before.  Less cheap.  DM is the CVS one, pretty much as Sander coded it.  Slight modifications.

Vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4rIGIP75hI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4rIGIP75hI)

Raiden will have a special intro with either Billy or Terry.  Not sure yet, but he'll have one.  In normal mugen, I'll try to give him one with Tizoc as well.  Will work on Vice's DMs tomorrow.  Sleep now...
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: eldarion on July 11, 2009, 12:51:50 pm
Hi swipergod, nice updates.
Is it possible to show the chars you updated since 0.5 in your DL page? (like you did in red with 0.4)
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Mineko C. Lucky on July 11, 2009, 01:01:59 pm
By the way... (back from a long absence) I hope you're not frustrated to answer this again, but is the "out of KOFE system bug" still exists?
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: ARCoolguy on July 11, 2009, 01:03:53 pm
YO SwiperGod can you upload Neo-Dio to your website
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on July 11, 2009, 01:47:30 pm
I'll touch up the website a little bit later on today.  Upload the updated characters and Neo-Dio.

eldarion, characters are constantly being updated.  Kyo was updated for his special intro with Saisyu.  I just did a group update to fix air blocking animations for 80% of the characters.  I'll be releasing a huge update for KOFE v0.6 which "should" include the new tag feature, if it's ready.  I'd wait until then to get the newest version of characters. 

The only characters with major upgrades to their moves is Mai, Rugal, Leona and Benimaru.  Karate and Big only got new intro animations.

Lucky, what screenpack are you using?  I can't seem to create a clone situation outside KOFE either since KOFE characters carry most of their hitstate defs within the character.  Remind me again, when does a clone appear?  The only other bugs that will happen outside of KOFE is that it will use your screenpack's sparks instead of KOFE sparks (so DMs might not have sparks, hits might not have sparks, etc...).
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: The Railgunner on July 11, 2009, 02:11:53 pm
First, Rugal's Reppuken has changed (as I mentioned before).  Wk and Sk versions are different sizes, but only have differences in damage and velocity.

First off, why does Rugal have Geese-like Reppuken(s)? The fact that Rugal uses only single Reppukens with velocity differences keeps his attack from being a carbon copy of Geese's. Second,...why does Rugal have weak and strong KICK Reppukens?

SP Reppuken by Rugal.  I love the 2k2 UM Reppuken sprites!  WP is smaller.  Adel will use Rugal's old Reppuken sprites.
http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj119/swipergod/mugen4-1.jpg (http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj119/swipergod/mugen4-1.jpg)

Those Reppuken sprites come from Fatal Fury 3...
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on July 11, 2009, 04:40:16 pm
Not sure I understand your comment Vegeta.  But I'll try to respond:

1.  KOF '94/KOF '95 Rugal had "Geese-like Reppukens".  In fact they were just blue colored power waves.  In CVS he used "Geese-like Reppukens" except they were purple.  Both KOFE versions do one hit and can be negated by single fireballs (unlike KOFE Geese's double).  The only difference is size (weak size vs strong size).  The velocities remain as they were for Rugal.  Since Geese in KOFE uses the RB Reppukens which look totally different, there's no harm here in saying each character is using different types of Reppukens.  Plus this is Rugal B. not Omega R. so I was going for a more '94 feel with the projectiles.  

2. Don't understand "kick reppukens", the fireballs are launched with a punch.

2. True, the large one does, but not the small one, which looks different.  I took both from the Geese 2k2 UM spritesheet though.

Oh, after some thinking and conceptualizing, I'm around 80% for re-adding Ash and bringing in Elizabeth to complete the Shiki/Adel edit team.  I've mentally reorganized some moves so that it's possible.  I blame XII for making me want to add them...
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: ARCoolguy on July 11, 2009, 05:12:47 pm
which team is Raiden in
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Rikimaru on July 11, 2009, 05:55:40 pm
T_T  Your taking away the Genei Hurricane, sad facing.  As for the tag mode, why not simply just take out the tagging tech.  Have the tag take 1-2 seconds to occur before the characters switch and disallow the super-tag combos.  Simple and balanced.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on July 11, 2009, 06:51:02 pm
Raiden is on Billy's Team

Genei Hurricane is out of Benimaru's inventory because I might give it to Elizabeth instead if I do her.  Um, if I work on her...  Um, never mind.  She's lacking in moves for KOFE, so I thought that might be a simple solution to image recycling that would work well with her.

1 vote for variable tag (instead of super meter tag).  I'll post later when the website has been updated. 
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Mineko C. Lucky on July 12, 2009, 07:48:28 am
I'll touch up the website a little bit later on today.  Upload the updated characters and Neo-Dio.

eldarion, characters are constantly being updated.  Kyo was updated for his special intro with Saisyu.  I just did a group update to fix air blocking animations for 80% of the characters.  I'll be releasing a huge update for KOFE v0.6 which "should" include the new tag feature, if it's ready.  I'd wait until then to get the newest version of characters. 

The only characters with major upgrades to their moves is Mai, Rugal, Leona and Benimaru.  Karate and Big only got new intro animations.

Lucky, what screenpack are you using?  I can't seem to create a clone situation outside KOFE either since KOFE characters carry most of their hitstate defs within the character.  Remind me again, when does a clone appear?  The only other bugs that will happen outside of KOFE is that it will use your screenpack's sparks instead of KOFE sparks (so DMs might not have sparks, hits might not have sparks, etc...).
Umm... no, you misunderstood my question. I did not download the game at all, I am just asking if the game will still be buggy when you put the characters outside of the KOFE system. The last time I recall, you said the characters will bug (clones, sparks, etc.) if used outside it.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: ARCoolguy on July 12, 2009, 09:47:45 am
When will Neo-Dio be available for download
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on July 12, 2009, 04:25:08 pm
Sorry ARCoolguy, website host is down for some reason.  The updates will have to wait until the host is fixed.  He's the Neodio link:

http://www.sendspace.com/file/ticvg1 (http://www.sendspace.com/file/ticvg1)

Hey Lucky, I'd just give 'em a go.  I've tried to remove most cloning issues.  Spark issues should be a big deal since most screenpacks have the basic sparks.  Although that's also a simple fix (just go into your mugen's fightfx.act and renumber the attack and block sprites).

The only glitching that I have no control over is in some binding states, characters may go invisible or do weird things because KOFE uses it's own hitdef base.  For example, if you hit someone with Vanessa's HSDM, they'll go into state 5051.  In KOFE that's an upwards hit, but if you're using Vegeta, he might not have that state and will become invisible.  I tried to base most of my hitdefs on CCI's mugen characters, but there's a few like the wiredamage hits which are numbered differently.

I'm working on Vice's HSDM.  She should be finished tomorrow I'm hoping.  I'm pausing right now to redo some credit screens.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: ARCoolguy on July 12, 2009, 04:55:31 pm
Thanks for Neo-Dio by the way which game is he from
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: GT on July 12, 2009, 05:01:25 pm
World Heroes.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on July 13, 2009, 05:18:58 pm
Vice.  Not quite finished, but enough for a movie:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_o4xCd3iWSQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_o4xCd3iWSQ)

You can see her HSDM has changed quite a bit.  It's now a diving throw that must be done in the air.  It's unblockable, but will not grab jumping opponents.  I stayed away from the Raging Demon style HSDM from 2k2 UM because it would just be a combination of K's and Shiki's HSDMs, plus a diving air grab is very unique.  She also has an anti-air grab, but it won't grab standing opponents.

I would really like to finalize this roster, so I don' want SNK to go and make me want to put more characters in. :P

So far:

(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj119/swipergod/mugen5-2.jpg)

Yes, I know my character select screen sucks.  Help me make a better one. ;)

Angel's back and in a team with Ash, Elizabeth and Adel.  They're the Post 2k team.  Angel trumps K9999 and Nameless because she's already finished.  Note that the Final boss/Sub boss row has the random select (also ugly).  That's it, no more characters.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: GMSpectre on July 13, 2009, 07:26:40 pm
Yes, I know my character select screen sucks.  Help me make a better one. ;)

The only problem I've had was with the positions of the characters, with having to go an unusual path with the horizontal and vertical positioning but that's easy to fix.  What I do with the select.def you've done, is reorganize it into 3 man teams for every group of four blocks is so that you can easily go to your character.  It's a nice temporary solution sine the problem will be no more in the final release.

Here's what I currently have (and a good copy and paste template for anyone who wants to mess around with it).

Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on July 19, 2009, 02:35:07 pm
Honestly, I'd like to be able to fit the top part into the body.  I will probably end up redoing the entire select screen though, but not until a while from now.  There's no point for me to re-organize the teams and redo the sprite boxes in the select screen since new characters are always being added and there would be a constant shuffle for me. 

I've been told by the host of my site that I need to use an FTP client to update my site now.  I've never used one before.  I'm sure it's not hard, but I can count that as a day just for updating my website...  I'll do that once I finish Mature.

Speaking of Mature, I've completed her basics, so she's good to go.  Mature will be using '96 sprites to perform her throws which are slightly different than the '98 animations.  Mature blocks differently than Vice and both have each other's defeated poses from '96.  More as it develops.

Oh, and the random select box is being replaced by Gouki.  Yes, Gouki.  Hate all you want.  Complain that Goro, Shingo, K9999, etc... aren't in the game, but a Capcom character is.  He's the only semi boss with plenty of animations that fits the slot.  Storywise he fits due to the dimensional rift caused by Neo-Dio and represents SVC.  Plus, his Mary leg and arm snap animations are already done! :)
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Maekron on July 19, 2009, 11:48:52 pm
Hey there!

I've been playing the game for a long time now and have to say that I really like it a lot - to say the least.
However I have found some minor bugs:
*If Chizuru is hit while using one of her moves that creates a clone (mostly the DM ones) she might be hit while the clone just stays where she was.
*Some Characters can use moves or even stand in the air - this mostly happens to Andy's Super Swirling Bullet.
By the way - increadible project and I'm looking forward to every single of those characters yet to come (mostly the Garou ones  ;))
So, keep up the great work.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on July 20, 2009, 03:50:07 am
Thanks Hellkite for the info.

Can you tell me the specifics behind the Chizuru bug?  I know she used to have a problem with cloning vs reversaldef until I gave all her moves hitoverrides, but maybe there's something else I missed.  If you can tell me what character vs what move, I'd be much obliged.

That glitch seems to happen with AI controlled opponents on rare occasions.  I've seen Saisyu do it and Kim do it.  I'll have to look at the AI triggers.

Garou characters will be #37-40 (we're on 33/34 right now).

After furiously scratching my head, I've manage to conceptualize Nameless.  In the end, I failed to escape making a Nameless/K9999 character...  Nameless will replace Gouki and slide into Adel's slot.  Adel will move to midboss status.  Expect Nameless to play very different a la Angel.  He will lose his red fire so that he can take advantage of other fire sprites.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Bastard Mami on July 20, 2009, 06:25:39 pm
add sopme code to the helper's so they check the parent's state.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Maekron on July 20, 2009, 07:02:13 pm
I think it happens when she's hit while doing her Essence of Infinite Rites.
Also I once had her stuck midair unable to move or be hit - She used Essence... and Rugal used Rugal Execution.
Hope I was able to help.
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on July 22, 2009, 12:04:25 am
Lol, I don't even know the names of moves I made up...

Okay, I'll check out the defs and see what I can come up with.  I might have missed something.  Adding the parent state line to the destroyself, shouldn't be too hard, but there's a lot of helpers to add it to so it might take awhile.

Mature's basic attacks are almost done.  I feel this need to do Nameless next, so I think I will.  I hope to have Mature done this weekend.  Raiden's still got some work left on him as well.  That's all for now.  Cheers.

Edit:  One major thing that I will be doing is making all cut hitsparks derive from the fightfx.act  I added the KOF XI cut sparks and I'm tired of having to heavily modify characters to have cut hitsparks if they're missing or using the older ones.  For the sake of consistency, I have to do it this way to save myself time in the long run.  I'll also be changing the afterimage for the rolling from CCI's to a more KOF accurate one (like Raiden has).
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: swipergod on July 22, 2009, 03:38:17 am
Just a pic to show the little added difference between Mature and Vice:

(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj119/swipergod/vicmat.jpg)

Mature gains her '96 throws (which also happen to be her XII throw). 
Title: Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition
Post by: Anthem