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Shredder WIP (Read 203193 times)

Started by Dcat, February 14, 2012, 10:32:11 am
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Re: Shredder WIP
#821  November 10, 2012, 04:28:07 am
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This is just wishful thinking on my part, but what if instead of including the foot soldiers in with Shredder, they were relegated to their own  separate "Bonus Stage" character?

I've wanted this character for years, can't code these things for crap myself though. I might give it another try somewhere down the line.

I think you should look at some SSFIV style super arts, namely Vega for style, for inspiration that could leave some dramatic impact through your distinct style. I think this should be more of an impact/barrage super art: Shredder performs a short dashing attack that initiates this move, followed by a one/two lifting kick of sorts (Like M. Bison's throw) which leads into this barrage (Animate it with some more movement besides the static flurry). The barrage lasts about 5 seconds, followed by a last whallop of a dramatic punch which sends the opponent airborne. As they shoot diagonally up, he tosses his sword, skewering and stunning the opponent. To finish the animation, with the stun in play, Shredder leaps up and air throws the opponent down while collecting his sword back, finally landing on the ground, taunting away like nobodies business. Super stylish and fitting for him, no??

And by all means, keep that "My toe!! My toe!!" animation in there!! Epic!!
I like where your head's at with these ideas, I'm not too hard pressed on including this Gauntlet Blur in the final character at all if I can com up with something better. I think your take on the move start-up and the inspiration from SSF4 Vega's attack are very fitting. I'll definitely be leaning towards that direction.


Quote
Lastly and speaking of intros, I think a perfectly fitting intro would involve Mousers carrying away Splinter, much like the intro of the stage that came after the skateboarding stage in the arcade game, where the turtles try to chase Splinter, but the Shredder stops them for the fight. Instead of involving characters as strikers, giving them nods as introductions or win poses would be amazing. Consider this: As a Win Pose, Foot soldiers could come along with, say, his cape, giving it back to him. Or providing a sheath for his sword. You could also have Bebop and Rocksteady here and there. Or Slash. Or Tokka and Rhazar. Hell, even have the Foot Soldiers hog pile on the fallen opponent in the last round to showcase the Shredder capturing the Turtles!!

Alright.... My head is now swimming in TMNT nostalgia and ideas for Shredder!! Damn you Dcat and your awesomeness!! ;)

Saikoro said:
Hmmm... Foot Soldiers may possibly detract from Shredder's  persona. Perhaps you could add in one or two moves only with a foot soldier?? If worse comes to worse, you could include them in an intro or something.
I agree Foot Soldiers should be kept for intro's / winposes, Shredder has tonnes of personality himself, he doesn't need no robots helping him during his fights, and they'll distract from his persona as said.

Yea Shredder has already so many great moves that he don't need the Foot Soldiers any more, but adding them to some intros or winposes is still a good idea, let's see how Dcat thinks about it.
Well... I dunno Balth.  How about the Foot Soldiers for a super?
Think Borghi's Final's Super, where he sends clones of a character to attack his opponent while he is offscreen.
Shredder could similarly hop in the BG laughing while 2 -3 foot soldiers attacked his opponent.

Just a thought.

Great idea about Splinter, Saikoro, I've begun editing the sprites. I could have it  setup so that you can rescue him similarly to what I was going for with April. I might have to agree here, Foot Soldiers would be great for intro / winpose cameos. I've begun color separation and as always its a major pain.
A foot soldier dog-pile winpose could be fun, and I really like Saikoro's ideas on that front as well. As far as their possible incorporation in the air super, I was thinking I could maybe code something like what Captain Commando has in MVC1 where he performs an initial launcher hit then his team jumps in and the various members do a single hit each. With Shredder, the last foot soldier would attack with the kusarigama chain or the heavy axe something which could hurl the opponent to the ground impact where Shredder appears and poses along with the Foot clan before they ninja vanish or somethin' like that. The more I think on it, the more I seem to like this idea, if I can pull it off it should look pretty cool.

Felt it was appropriate for this thread, since it's Shredder-related....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4k0sZ_YpCfA
Very cool!!

Ran into a bit of trouble with Super Shredder's normal attacks glitching him into a locked up state if he connects with an opponent's reversaldef that utilizes p2stateno like my Raphael's counter attack. Beyond adjusting Raphael's coding, I want a universal fix and I'm considering having the hitdefs in question moved into the helper coding so that the character is not the entity performing the attack and thusly can't be put into the opponent's custom state. I might have issues with synching the animations based on hitpause though if I do so I'm getting pretty bummed out regarding this new development.

I've been busy tweaking the StateDef -2  triggers for Shredder's various death / near death special states. I'm pretty sure I've got it so Shredder will perform as follows depending on the condition: dies properly on the first round, goes into his possum state on successive rounds ,  goes to his Super Shredder lose pose if time runs out , or dies in Super Shredder form if Super Shredder mode is active and life falls below 0. Dealing with F1 and all that was giving me a bit of trouble but I've got my fingers crossed that this will work how I want it to, but I still need to figure out how I can have the possum state activate on the absolute final round of the match.



Also, I finally changed Shredder's idle stance so that its truly accurate to the source games. Shredder now stands tall and his face is in full view with this new idle pose. It is only one frame, the best I can do with it with my skills is maybe add some blinking. As a result however, taunts and winposes line up better after many adjustments, so I'm willing to admit my faulty stance on the persistence of this little issue up to this point. Kudos to those folks who kept pointing it out and convinced me to change his idle animation, it really does make a difference.

Last Edit: November 10, 2012, 04:40:22 am by Dcat
Re: Shredder WIP
#822  November 10, 2012, 06:11:02 am
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I'm glad you changed his stance. The new variant looks great.

To remain true to your intended roots, but with an oh-so-subtle addition, I think you should go for a breathing style of animation very similar to how Capcom handled Cyclops' torso during his idle stance. If you break this idea down, your adding depth to Shredder's stance while also keeping a nice nod to the TMNT Arcade Game. His blinking could cycle through his breathing allowing for some added detail.
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Re: Shredder WIP
#823  November 10, 2012, 06:23:52 am
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YES thank you that was my only complaint about him I now have none thanks so much Dcat,.
You'll fix chuchoryu ? Sounds like a plan. How about you code him from scratch instead ?
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Re: Shredder WIP
#824  November 10, 2012, 09:15:47 am
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Yeah, that's the stance I wanted from the very beginning. Although I got used and was ok with the old one, it's even a bit sad to lose it.
Anyway, I hope you won't have problems with animating this new stance, so - good luck :)
Can't wait for Shredder release, I'm so hoping it will be in 2012 :)
Re: Shredder WIP
#825  November 10, 2012, 12:01:07 pm
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Also, I finally changed Shredder's idle stance so that its truly accurate to the source games. Shredder now stands tall and his face is in full view with this new idle pose. It is only one frame, the best I can do with it with my skills is maybe add some blinking. As a result however, taunts and winposes line up better after many adjustments, so I'm willing to admit my faulty stance on the persistence of this little issue up to this point. Kudos to those folks who kept pointing it out and convinced me to change his idle animation, it really does make a difference.

I'm glad you changed his stance. The new variant looks great.

To remain true to your intended roots, but with an oh-so-subtle addition, I think you should go for a breathing style of animation very similar to how Capcom handled Cyclops' torso during his idle stance. If you break this idea down, your adding depth to Shredder's stance while also keeping a nice nod to the TMNT Arcade Game. His blinking could cycle through his breathing allowing for some added detail.

I agree with Saikoro in this point, a breathing style of animation is the best way to make the stance work.
I post some animations from some SNK chars that are a good example for some good breathing animations, they will maybe help you to make the edits for your Shredder.

Last Edit: November 10, 2012, 12:40:14 pm by moep
Re: Shredder WIP
#826  November 10, 2012, 08:50:12 pm
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@Moep: Very good examples sir!! I think Geese and Rugal make the best examples here. Cyclops and Silver Samurai are the best two Capcom examples I could think of. Epic goodness all around.

Another intro that would please a lot of fans, at least in my opinion, would be Shredder's cutscene from the NES game after you diffuse the last bomb in the underwater segment of the Dam Stage. It's a longshot, but its worth mentioning. And it would tie in with the "rescue Splinter" theme you're working with. The only issue I would see is that its too damn long, but very cool anyway.
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I'd like to report two robots on the MFG forums: One is EXShadow. The other is Saikoro.
There should be a Saikoro plugin for Photoshop.
Re: Shredder WIP
#827  November 10, 2012, 10:44:33 pm
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@Moep: Very good examples sir!! I think Geese and Rugal make the best examples here. Cyclops and Silver Samurai are the best two Capcom examples I could think of. Epic goodness all around.

Another intro that would please a lot of fans, at least in my opinion, would be Shredder's cutscene from the NES game after you diffuse the last bomb in the underwater segment of the Dam Stage. It's a longshot, but its worth mentioning. And it would tie in with the "rescue Splinter" theme you're working with. The only issue I would see is that its too damn long, but very cool anyway.

Woah. That would be Epic!
Re: Shredder WIP
#828  November 11, 2012, 02:45:45 am
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Yeah man. A simple breathing animation would make it perfect. Maybe his his un-armed hand slightly clenching, part of the frames not a cycling animation like blinking. Other than that take your time, because this is shaping up to be your best release ever. I can not wait to play around with this guy so hard. MUGEN is getting pretty dusty except for the occasional practice mode here and there.
Re: Shredder WIP
#829  November 12, 2012, 01:40:10 am
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Some very late and extremely overdue feedback:

I was messing around with Shredder in Practice mode and thought that you should include these effects instead for his standing rapid punching attack. With the beta as it currently stands, the punches still feel slightly off animation wise. Excellent move, but it could look better.

His standing medium has an extremely limited hitbox. Is this on purpose?? It should have more range.

I feel that his crouching short/light kick should come out a little faster. Its animation cycle feels too slow. Make it so that you could possibly sneak in two hits before chaining into a medium strength strike at the cost of a slight pushback.

Reduce the range on his standing roundhouse/hard kick slightly. It comes out a little too far.

His shuriken attack: flesh it out a little more if possible with different strengths warranting different results. Example: Jab: standard Hadouken pushback with a small window for combo chaining very similar to how Ryu's fireball behaves in SFIV. Strong: Stun for chaining abilities at the cost of a damage dampener. Fierce: Knockdown with effects as more of a combo finisher.

Although it is already a counter move, his character feels like it needs the common dragon punch anti air attack. It just feels right in my opinion if he has one. If a sword strike dragon punch is a little too cliche, you could do something like a springing backflip kick similar to Vega's Scarlet Terror. With the common F~D~DF command of course. NOT the charging command as Shredder is totally a rolling command style character.

His forward+roundhouse/hard kick input should instead be back+roundhouse/hard kick. I think it would be cool if you turned his standard roundhouse/hard kick into a forward+roundhouse kick, giving him a new roundhouse kick animation all together. Think of Guile and his forward/back+short/light Kick command and the distance it covers.

His jumping meduim punch attack looks awesome. However, that attack looks like it should be more along the lines of an overhead down+medium punch. I think you should include a different animation of sorts. Also toy around with different commands that come out of directional inputs while airborne. More variety and dynamics that could lead into stylish and awesome air combos/aerial raves. Perhaps an Air only Hyper move similar to Krang's?? I smell excellence!!

His jumping jab punch should have a few more frames of animation.

Also, the two different styles of voice acting clash a bit too much in my ears. James Avery is all loud, entertaining to listen to and boisterous. Your voice actor's volume is a bit too low and off pitch even though his performance is good if you ask me. To give us a choice, I say you should give us voice options like Balthazar and Cybaster did in their Z2 releases. Could you rip some dialogue from his 2003 cartoon or film variants??

As I mentioned plenty of times before, this character is damned awesome, even for this beta. He feels very solid as the direction you're going is already evident at this early stage. I really, REALLY look forward to testing the hell out your next update. I'll make this feedback look like childs play!! Count on it!! ;)

Lastly, are you going to give Krang that air dash I mentioned a while back?? That inclusion would be amazing.

Keep rocking it hard Dcat. :sugoi:
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I'd like to report two robots on the MFG forums: One is EXShadow. The other is Saikoro.
There should be a Saikoro plugin for Photoshop.
Last Edit: November 12, 2012, 01:48:56 am by Saikoro
Re: Shredder WIP
#830  November 12, 2012, 05:15:00 am
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Oh my god. Air Dash on Krang? My homie and I are going to be making some BRUTAL Tag Team videos with Shredder and Krang.
Shredder Custom State Compatibility Info
#831  November 14, 2012, 04:59:06 am
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Shredder Custom State Compatibility Info

My Shredder character uses several commonly known custom animation standards including Shocked, Frozen and Burned animations. To find out how to implement these more common standards in your character, check out the Optional Animation Standards thread.

In this post, I'll share some of the Custom Standards that are uniquely Shredder's own so that you can implement them in your own characters for an added bit of compatibility if you so wish. I'm talking about the Hit by Retromutagen Ray and the My Toe! Custom Animations. 

RETROMUTAGEN RAY Custom Character Animation
Custom Animation


  ---------------------------------------
     Shredder uses the following animation numbers for Retro Mutation custom animations. Retromutation is when the character is transformed into a smaller/less menacing/"chibi" version of themselves ala Anakaris's Royal Judgement Curse. In the classic Ninja Turtles games this means transforming bi-pedal, mutated ninja turtles into tiny, harmless, four-legged pet turtles. While transformed the character is controllable but is unable to block or perform any attacks. If these animation numbers are unavailable, Shredder will assign his own animations to the opponent. The default Retromutated animation is a chimpanzee.


For Ground -Type Character Animation #'s:


If you want your character to walk on the ground when transformed by Retromutagen Ray, include the following group of animations in their .AIR file. A single Blue Collision box should be mapped to all frames of animation except for the Get Hit animation 19040, which has no CLSN around it. The Get Hit animation (19040) is a single frame with a time of -1.

     19030 - Ground Idling animation
     19032 - Ground crouching animation
     19033 - Ground crouch get up animation (optional)
     19034 - Ground walk forwards animation
     19035 - Ground walk backwards animation
     19036 - Ground jump start animation
     19038 - Ground jump animation
     19039 - Ground jump land animation
     19040 - Ground get hit animation
               -------------------


For Flying -Type Character Animation #'s:


If you want your character to float in the air when transformed by Retromutagen Ray, (birds, insects, etc.), include the following group of animations in their .AIR file. A single Blue Collision box should be mapped to all frames of animation except for the Get Hit animation 19040, which has no CLSN around it. The Get Hit animation (19060) is a single frame with a time of -1.
               
     19050 - Flying Idling animation
     19052 - Flying crouching animation
     19053 - Flying crouch get up animation (optional)
     19054 - Flying walk forwards animation
     19055 - Flying walk backwards animation
     19056 - Flying jump start animation
     19058 - Flying jump animation
     19059 - Flying jump land animation
     19060 - Flying get hit animation
               -------------------


NOTE! Do not include both Ground-Type animation numbers and Flying-Type animation numbers in your character. Either/or will suffice but not both since I'm pretty sure this could make things like the opponent's animation display & character movement buggy if Shredder reads your character as both a flying and a ground type.

     Shredder uses the following sound numbers for Retro Mutation custom hit sounds. Include a sound with this value in your character's .SND file if you want a custom sound to play when they're hit while transformed. Shredder's default sound 19030,0 will play if this is omitted from the opponent's  .SND file

     19030,0 - Get hit sound


                                                                                                               

 

MY TOES! Custom Character Animation (anim 5886)
Custom Animation


  ---------------------------------------


This is the hopping on one foot animation from the classic TMNT videogames. The animation consists of three frames with the character clutching their hurt foot, the sprites are aligned so that the third is higher than the previous two to simulate hopping. Animation timing is 5 ticks, 5 ticks, 10 ticks respectively. There's no CLSN needed on this animation.

This custom animation is used when hit by Super Shredder's Flame attack.  If your character lacks anim 5886 they will be transferred to the custom burned hit state and Shredder will use their custom burned animation (anim 7697 or anim 9015)  if it is available. If the character lacks anim 7697 and anim 9015, another animation made with universal gethit frames will be used instead.

                                                                                                               
Last Edit: November 14, 2012, 05:06:13 am by Dcat
Re: Shredder WIP
#832  November 14, 2012, 05:04:22 am
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D. . . .stop this madness. You're basically making history with this shit. A new custom state...actually TWO for Shredder.
WTF Man....you're crazy. I love you.
Re: Shredder WIP
#833  November 14, 2012, 06:44:35 am
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Re: Shredder WIP
#834  November 14, 2012, 07:42:38 am
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Looking great. :)
@Balthazar: sprite a "my toes" animation for all Z2 chars, NOW!!! :D
Re: Shredder WIP
#835  November 14, 2012, 10:58:44 am
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:D
Re: Shredder WIP
#836  November 14, 2012, 01:45:10 pm
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ALong with Vegeta screaming: "Fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck!"

DW

Re: Shredder WIP
#837  November 14, 2012, 06:38:37 pm
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Dcat, you are the man. The amount of effort and creativity that you're putting into Shredder is inspiring. I very much look forward to his release. I'm loving everything you implementing with him. Keep up the great work. :tipshat:
Re: Shredder WIP
#838  November 14, 2012, 06:46:19 pm
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+1
I'm too, even more excited now :)
By the way - Dcat are you planning to code AI for Shredder yourself? Or you will code it only for Krang?
Re: Shredder WIP
#839  November 14, 2012, 07:19:49 pm
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I could see the new hopping custom state coming in handy for a lot of different characters / moves in the future if it becomes common place.  Hopefully foresight provides people with incentive to update and add it!

Is there a list somewhere of all the 'suggested' popular custom states?  Like:
Electrocution
Burning
Midnight Bliss
Mutagen
Hopping
etc.


Also Super Shredder is looking bad ass! Can't wait for the release man, +1 all your effort really puts your characters in a class of their own.
Re: Shredder WIP
#840  November 14, 2012, 07:28:36 pm
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I smell character of the year.