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LET'S TALK ABOUT LOOT BOXES/GACHA. (Read 10599 times)

Started by 地獄の花, May 27, 2019, 05:02:48 pm
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Re: LET'S TALK ABOUT LOOT BOXES/GACHA.
#21  May 28, 2019, 07:07:37 am
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Not sure what you mean about dbfz. Money gets you actual DLC content, in-game currency gets you lottery stuff but you can't get more of that with real money.

thats what i mean, many games nowadays are making lootboxes in-game not even cost actual money, like dbfz.

what im saying is that lootboxes are slowly not being as cancerous and are being handled at a decent rate by most games nowadays.
Re: LET'S TALK ABOUT LOOT BOXES/GACHA.
#22  May 28, 2019, 08:50:53 am
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making them illegal altogether right here and now is pretty bad considering how many games do rely on paid updates to keep going and making even more content.
They shouldn't exist in a game that you pay 60 dollars upfront for. That's where companies are supposed to make their money from.
If they want microtrancations they should atleast not make RNG gambling and just sell their shitty weapons skins normally.

Also what is it with you and this sympathy that you have for multi billionaire games companies? they're not angels. They abuse their workers and force them to work long ass crunch time hours and barely pay them. Some developers straight up quit working in the gaming industry after working for AAA game companies.
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#23  May 28, 2019, 12:05:46 pm
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Mentioned already but DLC characters will be fine, it can only be purchased once.

I'd also like to add that this would possibly all games. Even M-rated games are 17+, still below the legal gambling age. It'd be interesting to see the overall fallout if this does go through, mobile gacha would have to be changed in order to comply with the standards. Or possibly be put to pasture, at least in the US anyway.

This is easily the biggest cancer in the history of video games, even worse then the shovelware that was being pushed before the industry crash. It's unethical, predatory, lazy, and the most disgusting example of publishers putting profit above all else. At least in the arcade model you paid to play the game with a chance to win. Here you're blowing money out the ass for... a chance to earn something?

As someone who wants as little government involvement as possible in video games (or just about anything for that matter), this is the one area I can easily make an exception for. There is no reason for loot boxes to exist inside of T-rated games.

lui

Re: LET'S TALK ABOUT LOOT BOXES/GACHA.
#24  May 28, 2019, 01:15:14 pm
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making them illegal altogether right here and now is pretty bad considering how many games do rely on paid updates to keep going and making even more content.
They shouldn't exist in a game that you pay 60 dollars upfront for. That's where companies are supposed to make their money from.
If they want microtrancations they should atleast not make RNG gambling and just sell their shitty weapons skins normally.

Also what is it with you and this sympathy that you have for multi billionaire games companies? they're not angels. They abuse their workers and force them to work long ass crunch time hours and barely pay them. Some developers straight up quit working in the gaming industry after working for AAA game companies.

Youre twisting my words into thinking i have sympathy for companies just because im saying that lootboxes arent the worst things in the world. I said its another fork in the road. Every generation has had to deal with bs practices in one form or another and there will be something worse or atleast along the same lines. Its an industry and this is how other industries are as well.

Nothing i said suggests i actively approve of everything nor does it say i think its all a okay.

Read more closely please.
Re: LET'S TALK ABOUT LOOT BOXES/GACHA.
#25  May 28, 2019, 07:10:07 pm
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Loot boxes are a predatory design locking content that should just be put up for purchase behind not only a paywall but RNG, and on top of that they artificially increase the rarity by making drop rates for certain pulls absymal. This is best seen in Gacha games where the entirety of the gameplay revolves around spending exorbitant amounts of money in the HOPE you get good units that allow you to progress through the game. Even for cosmetic factors, this sort of thing is basically a not-so-subtle way for developers to milk your wallet for everything its worth- its based on the addictive principles of gambling, and gambling halls/casinos also game their systems to ensure theyre drying you of as much money as possible. This practice is at best harmful, and at worst straight up predatory. It is not just some "bad gaming trend" and Gennos is correct. You have a history of playing devils advocate for this sorta thing. Its not a defensible practice unless you think its good the already rich company is getting richer off this sort of thing.
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Re: LET'S TALK ABOUT LOOT BOXES/GACHA.
#26  May 28, 2019, 10:07:28 pm
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What's wrong with playing devil's advocate? Having someone playing the role of the devil's advocate could help expose gaps in ones argument that requires swift rectification.
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Re: LET'S TALK ABOUT LOOT BOXES/GACHA.
#27  May 28, 2019, 11:01:04 pm
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What's wrong with playing devil's advocate?
Generally speaking, when all you do is play devil's advocate, then... at some point you're just on the side of the devil. Not saying whether or not this is the case for this specific person (but the guys up here are saying this IS what he's doing), I'm just pointing out the gap in your argument.
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Last Edit: May 28, 2019, 11:07:29 pm by Byakko
Re: LET'S TALK ABOUT LOOT BOXES/GACHA.
#28  May 28, 2019, 11:08:58 pm
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making them illegal altogether right here and now is pretty bad considering how many games do rely on paid updates to keep going and making even more content.
In this quote you seem worried about what would happen to those poor companies and their games when loot boxes are shut down. Thinking that they would stop providing their online services without lootboxes to sustain them. But the fact is games have been providing online services long before lootboxes were a thing, you can still pick a copy of Modern Warfare 2 and log online and play with other people. No online services of a triple A game have ever been shut down because not enough money was earned from microtransactions.
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Re: LET'S TALK ABOUT LOOT BOXES/GACHA.
#29  May 29, 2019, 04:45:24 am
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Looking at the bill again, something concerning and confusing jumps out to me that I have not noticed before:

Sections 4 and 5 is about research and study of the lootbox, PtW, and micro transaction problem. The bill states that the Federal Trade Commission should submit reports summarizing their findings to Congress not later than two years after the bill becomes law.

Which is nice, except that would it be much better if research and analysis of the problem be done BEFORE any law about the problem be passed and resources be spent? Because I would not want my tax-payer money be tossed at an endeavour that could very well be a nothing-burger.
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Re: LET'S TALK ABOUT LOOT BOXES/GACHA.
#30  May 29, 2019, 05:35:49 am
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Yes, won't anyone please think about those poor defenseless mega corporations that surpassed the movie industry as the highest profiting entertainment outlet?

How will they ever manage to survive if their latest manipulative skinner box gambling outlet gets outlawed? All of the insane amounts of money they make totally goes back into the economy as high wages and bonuses for the game developers, and in no way gets siphoned into the pockets of shareholders to get hidden away in offshore accounts.

This will be the death of gaming!

...or they will move to  a new monetization method and make everything in a game ala carte, or subscription based. Gotta keep them shareholders happy. If profits aren't higher than last quarter, you are a complete failure.

Play FiFa 2020, only $59.99... a month! Assemble your dream team for as low as $15 per player!

The Future is Now!
Re: LET'S TALK ABOUT LOOT BOXES/GACHA.
#31  May 29, 2019, 04:08:27 pm
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Sorry, I missed the part of the law where it says only big companies and AAA games are gong to be affected by the new laws. care to point out where it is ?
Re: LET'S TALK ABOUT LOOT BOXES/GACHA.
#32  May 29, 2019, 04:44:07 pm
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What small company makes gacha games on consoles or mobile ?
Delightworks ?
If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.
Re: LET'S TALK ABOUT LOOT BOXES/GACHA.
#33  May 29, 2019, 04:55:17 pm
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Lol you really think small game developers rely on loot boxes to fund their games?
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Put this on the profile of people who are known/wanted terrorists
that were involved in the September 11th attacks in 2001
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Re: LET'S TALK ABOUT LOOT BOXES/GACHA.
#34  May 29, 2019, 05:39:09 pm
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lol, you really think laws only apply to big companies and not small ones.
Re: LET'S TALK ABOUT LOOT BOXES/GACHA.
#35  May 29, 2019, 05:46:53 pm
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Can you apply a law to something that doesn't exist ?
If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.
Re: LET'S TALK ABOUT LOOT BOXES/GACHA.
#36  May 29, 2019, 06:01:49 pm
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yeah, and by making it a law they will amke sure it won't exist in the future either.
Re: LET'S TALK ABOUT LOOT BOXES/GACHA.
#37  May 29, 2019, 06:18:16 pm
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But that's a good thing.
If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.
Re: LET'S TALK ABOUT LOOT BOXES/GACHA.
#38  May 29, 2019, 06:34:00 pm
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We really do need to stop this practice anyway. We also need to get parents to look at the stuff their kids are getting into.
Re: LET'S TALK ABOUT LOOT BOXES/GACHA.
#39  May 29, 2019, 08:49:59 pm
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There are lots of small companies that release or even rely on gacha to generate money. The thing about those companies is that they have to be fair, rational, and rely on consumer trust for their game to have a chance at staying afloat. Something Epic or EA would obviously not give a damn about.

For every game like FGO or Granblue, there's many more flops like the recent Disgaea gacha that Nippon Ichi tried and failed at due to bad servers. They're now looking at bankruptcy for their lack of success. And SNK with the many mobile games they released before they were bought out, none of which having any massive success until the Metal Slug tower game some years ago. Mobile is a very competitive market, but one of the few where small developer/publishers can find success.

I would much rather the industry self-regulate, but it's already been shown how much they can be trusted with that. So now the next step is being considered, and it's simply something everyone will have to adjust for. Some thanks can be given to the ESRB for their negligence in comparing loot boxes to CCGs. Ignoring how much more accessible the former is, and how much more interactive video games are to paper products (casinos use bright, heavy colors for a reason).
Re: LET'S TALK ABOUT LOOT BOXES/GACHA.
#40  May 29, 2019, 09:18:03 pm
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The takeaway from this whole debacle has been that the ESA can no longer be trusted to do the job it was created for

To provide the industry a chance to self-regulate before the government comes in swinging the uncaring bat of legislation
Oh, why must I tell 'em again?
What must I tell 'em, my friend?
That we are born into sin
And we are worshiping murderers
Nothing but evil duplicitous men
I know you heard of 'em all
We should just murder 'em all
We should just murder and ball
We dance on the ruins we looting from all of they palace's walls