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Mugen 1.0 Tigre Negro relaunch (Read 2009 times)

Started by MAXIMUS, October 26, 2019, 01:37:59 pm
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Re: Mugen 1.0 Tigre Negro relaunch
#21  October 27, 2019, 10:53:29 am
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Your English is good enough.

Allow me to explain what's happening.

The people that liked this didn't care much for how the character played, they only cared about how the character looked. These people never cared about gameplay, they just wanted a character that looked flashy and either gave them easy wins(thanks to the jank the character possessed) or had "strong AI" (Because the only mode they touch is Watch mode). These people haven't gone away. There are still stuff being made that is poorly made gameplay wise, but is flashy enough so they don't care.

People like Giang and I don't have much interest in flashiness and are more interested that the gameplay is solid and follows basic FG standards. I simply watched the video and didn't test it myself and I could tell there was some weird stuff that wasn't right just by eyeballing it.
Re: Mugen 1.0 Tigre Negro relaunch
#22  October 27, 2019, 02:09:36 pm
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Maximus, don't worry about some people being too harsh to the point of being rude.

I understood the fact the crouching light punch was supposed to be unblockable as a joke. You took feedback pretty well.
It's also understandable that no one pointed out mistakes (or "features" ;D ) in your character since it was supposed to be fun... for the period.
You came back after a long time, so stuff like "he's been here for 6 years" is not really necessary, nor is the "he shouldn't be contributor" line I've read here. Don't mind those.






My feedback, and Giang's, is supposed to improve the character for replay value more than for "lulz he's flashy" and then forgetting about it.


- The voice thing I listed (every light attack one voiceclip, every medium attack another voiceclip and the heavy attacks yet another one) could make the character sound too repetitve, maybe make it so he plays the clips once in a while.


- The launchers being two is a bit weird, one is a command and the other is just a button, what would anyone choose? The one with the button, it's easier and more intuitive to do, rendering the command launcher (the QCB, any kick launcher, to be precise) useless or a filler move. It's bad to have filler moves that can be replaced by more versatile moves.


- Is the character supposed to have combos? A combo system like MvC characters? Because the grounded attacks don't allow for combo-ability and you have launchers that should, in theory, open possibilities for aerial combos, a staple of the MvC series. But it's difficult to do those too.


- The collision boxes are bad, they were probably okay for the time (not really, they just meant a broken character even by those days' standards), but you should definitely check them out.
For example, in the neutral jump animation, while he's falling down, he has no CLSNs making him completely invincible.
The taunt animation has frames where they're not present or are too small.

There are so many animations where you have to fix those.
One rule I use is using the standing animation blue CLSNs for actions like guarding (standing), turning, taunting, get hits (standing), and in general for standing actions (with modifications, of course), the crouching animation blue CLSNs for crouching actions etc.; I mean, don't make new ones every time: make everything more cohesive.

There are tutorials about it, like this one although it's a bit outdated: http://www.kod.trinitymugen.net/#tuts
there was also a discussion about making CLSNs cover the exact same space the sprite does (which is wrong, in my opinion), like this: http://mugenguild.com/forum/topics/tutorial-part-2-collision-boxes-170309.0.html


this is a bad CLSN placement. Not only the kick has lots of priority (red CLSNs not covered by blue CLSNs), there are also too many.
What I would do, not looking at the games, just by my own judgement of what's better, and following the tutorials, would be this:

See how the blue CLSN covers the red one? Also there are less boxes too. It's all about optimizing and making them game-friendly.
Mind you, my way of putting the collision boxes might be wrong, but at least it's much better than adding too many of them.


- Also the timings on the attacks are slow for the animations and the pausetimes are too small.
pausetime = 1
not even pausetime = 1,any number

There is a pausetime = 1   ;8,10
why didn't you use the 8,10 one? Or at least something different, but fitting for the attack?







That's all for now. I didn't look too much into the supers although I saw some that are silly.
Ah, yes, there's one thing about them. The supers (which use power) give back power. That shouldn't be a thing.
Add getpower = 0,0 to the hitdef of the moves. ;)

Considering this character 110% would be wrong, there's so much to be fixed, hopefully you'll make it better (if you intend to fix it of course).
Last Edit: October 27, 2019, 02:16:56 pm by AlexSin
Re: Mugen 1.0 Tigre Negro relaunch
#23  October 28, 2019, 02:11:41 am
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Your English is good enough.

Allow me to explain what's happening.

The people that liked this didn't care much for how the character played, they only cared about how the character looked. These people never cared about gameplay, they just wanted a character that looked flashy and either gave them easy wins(thanks to the jank the character possessed) or had "strong AI" (Because the only mode they touch is Watch mode). These people haven't gone away. There are still stuff being made that is poorly made gameplay wise, but is flashy enough so they don't care.

People like Giang and I don't have much interest in flashiness and are more interested that the gameplay is solid and follows basic FG standards. I simply watched the video and didn't test it myself and I could tell there was some weird stuff that wasn't right just by eyeballing it.

Hello
I perfectly understand your point!
And that's exactly what I currently intend to do with my character!
As I said at the time I did it (2003/4), a lot of things were fun and we had different views. (And I was silly at the time too).
But I really came back today with the intention of doing something more mature and effective!
Of course, I haven't had much time to do all the necessary updates yet ...
Given that I had to make a page for the site, update all the characters and stages of my old group to host (not finished yet), and at the same time work with my own content that was also donating all these years. !
My priority in the beginning is to bring them back, and then as the community contributions make the appropriate adjustments ...
Other than getting used to a new mugen (1.0), and a new community ...

Maximus, don't worry about some people being too harsh to the point of being rude.

I understood the fact the crouching light punch was supposed to be unblockable as a joke. You took feedback pretty well.
It's also understandable that no one pointed out mistakes (or "features" ;D ) in your character since it was supposed to be fun... for the period.
You came back after a long time, so stuff like "he's been here for 6 years" is not really necessary, nor is the "he shouldn't be contributor" line I've read here. Don't mind those.






My feedback, and Giang's, is supposed to improve the character for replay value more than for "lulz he's flashy" and then forgetting about it.


- The voice thing I listed (every light attack one voiceclip, every medium attack another voiceclip and the heavy attacks yet another one) could make the character sound too repetitve, maybe make it so he plays the clips once in a while.


- The launchers being two is a bit weird, one is a command and the other is just a button, what would anyone choose? The one with the button, it's easier and more intuitive to do, rendering the command launcher (the QCB, any kick launcher, to be precise) useless or a filler move. It's bad to have filler moves that can be replaced by more versatile moves.


- Is the character supposed to have combos? A combo system like MvC characters? Because the grounded attacks don't allow for combo-ability and you have launchers that should, in theory, open possibilities for aerial combos, a staple of the MvC series. But it's difficult to do those too.


- The collision boxes are bad, they were probably okay for the time (not really, they just meant a broken character even by those days' standards), but you should definitely check them out.
For example, in the neutral jump animation, while he's falling down, he has no CLSNs making him completely invincible.
The taunt animation has frames where they're not present or are too small.

There are so many animations where you have to fix those.
One rule I use is using the standing animation blue CLSNs for actions like guarding (standing), turning, taunting, get hits (standing), and in general for standing actions (with modifications, of course), the crouching animation blue CLSNs for crouching actions etc.; I mean, don't make new ones every time: make everything more cohesive.

There are tutorials about it, like this one although it's a bit outdated: http://www.kod.trinitymugen.net/#tuts
there was also a discussion about making CLSNs cover the exact same space the sprite does (which is wrong, in my opinion), like this: http://mugenguild.com/forum/topics/tutorial-part-2-collision-boxes-170309.0.html


this is a bad CLSN placement. Not only the kick has lots of priority (red CLSNs not covered by blue CLSNs), there are also too many.
What I would do, not looking at the games, just by my own judgement of what's better, and following the tutorials, would be this:

See how the blue CLSN covers the red one? Also there are less boxes too. It's all about optimizing and making them game-friendly.
Mind you, my way of putting the collision boxes might be wrong, but at least it's much better than adding too many of them.


- Also the timings on the attacks are slow for the animations and the pausetimes are too small.
pausetime = 1
not even pausetime = 1,any number

There is a pausetime = 1   ;8,10
why didn't you use the 8,10 one? Or at least something different, but fitting for the attack?







That's all for now. I didn't look too much into the supers although I saw some that are silly.
Ah, yes, there's one thing about them. The supers (which use power) give back power. That shouldn't be a thing.
Add getpower = 0,0 to the hitdef of the moves. ;)

Considering this character 110% would be wrong, there's so much to be fixed, hopefully you'll make it better (if you intend to fix it of course).

First of all I would like to say that I am extremely grateful for your words.
 And say your contribution was the best I've had in years!
I'll be honest, even at the time I never paid much attention to the crash boxes.
I just studied the basics and always worried about studying and going deeper into other things!
But seeing your comments I see that I really should rethink my concepts ...
About the commands you showed, some of them are commands that are out of date.
I am still studying Mugen 1.0! (I never got to play or program him).
So a lot is still new to me!
When I upgraded Tigre to the new mugen I did all the basic updates, but as the days went by I saw that there are more things to do ...
And yes I intend to do, but I intend to study this new mugen more to do the same ...
After all I am a prehistoric creature who woke up in the 21st century and is lost!
I understand your questions about the "voice" ... I'll take a look, and maybe make new ones
And again...
Thanks!
Re: Mugen 1.0 Tigre Negro relaunch
#24  October 30, 2019, 01:57:42 am
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i did remember of this char, what is his language?
Re: Mugen 1.0 Tigre Negro relaunch
#25  October 30, 2019, 02:07:36 am
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 I mean, the author is from Brazil, so, you can take a guess what the character's language is.