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Jack Krauser (PotS Style) by Varo_Hades (Read 3143 times)

Started by RagingRowen, October 15, 2019, 10:48:16 pm
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Jack Krauser (PotS Style) by Varo_Hades
#1  October 15, 2019, 10:48:16 pm
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Jack Krauser (RE4) by Varo_Hades
Edits by RagingRowen

Thanks to Swagga Kings for posting the original on this YT Channel.

Second Update:
- Head.pos adjusted.
- Added Sword Swing sounds to his Knife moves.
- Most normals are more unsafe on block.
- A few Damage adjustments.
- Several more frame data tweaks.
- Added Landing FX to Intro 1.
- Standing Heavy Punch has a bit less range.
- Hunter Arrow's arrows stick for only a split second.
- Hunter Robot has better blockability.
- Mine Gun is now a Super and is now blockable just before the mine explodes.
- Knife Combo now has Swing Sounds.
- Machine Gun has recovery time after firing.
- Machine Gun chip damage decreased.
- Flash Grenade's Slash spark now in front of P2.
- Mutant Claw is no longer fully invincible.
- Other small tweaks.

First Update:
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

Known Issues:
- "The Mine from the Mine Gun has no explosion effect when the opponent is grabbed by a throw." I don't know a fix to this that will work for all normal character.
- Apparently his Projectiles don't have proper damage scaling.
- Hunter Arrow apparently has insane poweradd.
- Machine Gun has about a second of invincibility after the super pause.

To Do:
- Nerf/Refine Mutant Claw more (Can do up to 720 damage in the corner).
- Better Blood FX.
- Hi-Res FX for the Machine Gun.
- Voice rips without the music or sounds?
- Better Super Finish Text, along with some for Mine Gun.
- Better Small Portrait?
- Other nitpicks and bugs pointed out.[/size]




https://mega.nz/#!jvgSAIQK!7_3yTtWgZZf_-c57Ha14pzYA6OW7g-Fvvb3x69ja80o
Last Edit: October 21, 2019, 10:31:40 pm by RagingRowen
Re: Jack Krauser (PotS Style) by Varo_Hades
#2  October 15, 2019, 10:53:52 pm
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Noice, this edit is needed since the original release wasn't PotS Style at all. :P
Thanks bro.
Re: Jack Krauser (PotS Style) by Varo_Hades
#3  October 15, 2019, 11:25:28 pm
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Some feedback after a few minutes of testing:
-I feel like sword swing sounds would sound better for the standing and crouching MP and HPs instead of normal ones.
-The intro where he touches the ground doesn't have a landing effect and could use an effect when his knife makes contact to the ground.
-Machine Gun has no envshake when the opponent is hit.
-Knife Combo don't have swing sounds at all.
-The arrow on Hunter Arrow should fall immediately after being blocked and don't fade when they disappear.
-Hunter Robot is unblockable when standing or crouching.
-The Mine from the Mine Gun has no explosion effect when the opponent is grabbed by a throw.
-The hitspark on Incendiary Grenade is too small.
-The hitspark on Flash Grenade is behind the blood effects.
-Both punch and kick throws don't have swing sounds and do the exact same thing (One should throw forward and the other backwards).

Overall, a very good PotS edit. Didn't expect you to do this one.
Re: Jack Krauser (PotS Style) by Varo_Hades
#4  October 15, 2019, 11:33:12 pm
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Some feedback after a few minutes of testing:
-The hitspark on Flash Grenade is behind the blood effects.
-Both punch and kick throws don't have swing sounds and do the exact same thing (One should throw forward and the other backwards).
I'm already aware of the first one, I just couldn't get that right even when using sprpriority.
I was also aware of the second one but I just forgot about it when I came to releasing it, I'll look into it later.
I'll get to the rest at one point aswell.

Re: Jack Krauser (PotS Style) by Varo_Hades
#5  October 18, 2019, 05:09:37 am
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Congrats on the release, glad to see you made a POTS style version of him. One thing I noticed (and this might just be in my ikemen build so don't mind me if it's just an isolated thing) he gains a lot of super just from shooting arrows. He generates super when he pulls out the bow and then more when the arrow hits, not sure if that's how you intended it. Posted it in the spoiler below!

Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

Love the character so far, looking forward to any fixes he gets, great job man!

Re: Jack Krauser (PotS Style) by Varo_Hades
#6  October 18, 2019, 07:47:11 am
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Feedback:

- Literally every single moves are safe on block. Only 2 supers are unsafe and 1 is unpunishable (QCBx2 + 2k) while another literally gives him full invul from frame 1 to the end of the recovery frames (LV3).
- Heavy Kick is air-blockable. This doesn't sound like Pots-style to me.
- Every single projectile-related attacks have no damage scaling, resulting in an unreasonable amount of damage.
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty
- Infinites.
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty
- Reversed damage scaling on jabs?
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty
- HUGE amount of power gain.
- A ton of unblockable oki set up and blocksting with drones and stickies bomb. Combining with the amount of safe moves he has, I wonder how a real Pots style char can survive this. Even Guilty Gear or Melty Blood don't have this level of dumb oki.
- Machine Gun hyper deals ~180 chip damage, full screen. Yes, you can crouch to avoid that but no CvS players want to be punished full screen just for jumping.
- A ton of unnecessary codes (the character doesn't use charge moves, why do you waste 4 vars just for a charge system that he doesn't even use?)
- A few pictures worth more than words (Thanks to Dissidia):
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

Also, for more BS, here is a video:
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

Basically, this is a pretty sloppy work. I definitely miss a lot of more problems but I can't bare to dig more than this since the character has way too many flaws to actually be called a Pots-style char. No one could just simply slap a ton of Pots aesthetics and call it a Pots-style character. You might consider actually putting efforts into this.

Edit: Oh yea, I did a vid too. The AI is pretty spammy with all of those plus moves but meh, the character is pretty bork already. Unblockable attachment should never be a thing in fighting game generally. And for sake of God, no character ever should have i-frame during recovery. His LV3 is so dumb because of that. Also, I believe his AI can manage to get out of hitstun way too early as well, probably due to the bad usage of 1-tick fix, which can ruin tight combos against him.
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty
Last Edit: October 18, 2019, 03:52:31 pm by Mr. Giang
Re: Jack Krauser (PotS Style) by Varo_Hades
#7  October 18, 2019, 09:11:35 am
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Good lord, I'll have to attend to these soon.
Really should've tweaked to the Machine Gun more, I was thinking of adding a few frames after he stops firing.
For the Robot and Mine Gun, I was thinking of converting one or the other into a Super.
Also the Robot is blockable, it's just not coded to do so on its own (The opponent will need to be blocking something else before it explodes). I'll likely fix this with StateTypeSet.
Last edit, I just noticed his Mutant Claw's got full invincibility even after the move itself.
Last Edit: October 18, 2019, 10:58:09 am by RagingRowen
Re: Jack Krauser (PotS Style) by Varo_Hades
#8  October 18, 2019, 11:00:32 am
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I believe Giang did a good job explaining everything, but I wanted to add my observations into the mix.
First of all, I'm of the mentality that if you edit something and release it to the public, you are responsible for everything in that edit. This is because I expect someone to understand how their chosen base works. Second of all, quite frankly, you chose a very poor base. I know for a fact that issues present in your edit were also present in the original character.(take my word for it that these two are different characters)
I'm certain I could put both versions together and find more things that are in both of them. This is something I feel one should keep an eye out when choosing what character to edit. IMO, you were better off taking the sprites and reworking the entire code(and even then, I have my doubts on Krauser's sprites)
It's going to be rough fixing up the screw ups the original had, but if you're willing to do it, then more power to you.
Re: Jack Krauser (PotS Style) by Varo_Hades
#9  October 18, 2019, 11:37:50 am
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I haven't actually tried the original original (Before Varo_Hades edited it (This was the one I edited further)).
The biggest nitpick there was the Machine Gun, because it was pretty useless against P2 on the ground but brutal against P2 in the Air.
Re: Jack Krauser (PotS Style) by Varo_Hades
#10  October 19, 2019, 02:53:11 pm
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Basically, this is a pretty sloppy work. I definitely miss a lot of more problems but I can't bare to dig more than this since the character has way too many flaws to actually be called a Pots-style char. No one could just simply slap a ton of Pots aesthetics and call it a Pots-style character. You might consider actually putting efforts into this.
I think you are blaming the wrong person about this character. Most of the coding done is by varo_hades and his works are usually done though a template. RagingRowen simply edits the characters and tries to fix the issues as I know for a fact he can do it. If issues persists, it's the fault of the original creator, not the editor.
Re: Jack Krauser (PotS Style) by Varo_Hades
#11  October 19, 2019, 03:05:31 pm
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Exactly, for what i see in varo's edit, he got really lazy in this one. He doesn't even change the aesthetics and sounds to be a proper POTS Style character. :P
Re: Jack Krauser (PotS Style) by Varo_Hades
#12  October 19, 2019, 03:30:06 pm
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I think you are blaming the wrong person about this character. Most of the coding done is by varo_hades and his works are usually done though a template. RagingRowen simply edits the characters and tries to fix the issues as I know for a fact he can do it. If issues persists, it's the fault of the original creator, not the editor.

Not wrong person. Every single problem I pointed out can be easily edited with a very basic coding knowledge (just some simple frame data changes, reduce power gain, reduce i-frame,...). If someone edits something, they are responsible for the final result, no matter what. "Editing" is hardly an excuse for a poor work. Being lenient for this kind of releases is simply to encourage more lazy works in the future.
Last Edit: October 19, 2019, 03:34:48 pm by Mr. Giang
Re: Jack Krauser (PotS Style) by Varo_Hades
#13  October 19, 2019, 03:36:41 pm
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That's why i hope and i believe that Rowen will cover all these problems and issues.
Re: Jack Krauser (PotS Style) by Varo_Hades
#14  October 19, 2019, 03:55:39 pm
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I love that Rowen tried fixing some of the stuff present, but in the end, he probably was better off with the sff and effects and should have probably made him from the ground up. That the thing about edits in the long run, when you edit somebody else's work, all the problems go to you to fix said problems because you can see the code and can fix it to higher standards. Either way, glad SOMEBODY is actually trying to make this Krauser work in the long run of things.

Edit: HOLY SHIT KRAUSER IS BORKED AS FUCK.
Last Edit: October 19, 2019, 04:00:00 pm by R565
Re: Jack Krauser (PotS Style) by Varo_Hades
#15  October 19, 2019, 06:42:51 pm
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Basically, this is a pretty sloppy work. I definitely miss a lot of more problems but I can't bare to dig more than this since the character has way too many flaws to actually be called a Pots-style char. No one could just simply slap a ton of Pots aesthetics and call it a Pots-style character. You might consider actually putting efforts into this.
I think you are blaming the wrong person about this character. Most of the coding done is by varo_hades and his works are usually done though a template. RagingRowen simply edits the characters and tries to fix the issues as I know for a fact he can do it. If issues persists, it's the fault of the original creator, not the editor.
He didn't fix very much.
youtube
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Put this on the profile of people who are known/wanted terrorists
that were involved in the September 11th attacks in 2001
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- courtesy of Iced
Re: Jack Krauser (PotS Style) by Varo_Hades
#16  October 20, 2019, 02:38:41 am
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Re: Jack Krauser (PotS Style) by Varo_Hades
#17  October 20, 2019, 03:31:43 am
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While it does seem to be an improvement (as the framedata now actually looks more Pots-ish), I can still detect a certain problems.
- Projectiles still don't have damage scaling (Ex-Crossbow).
- Still not a fan of stickies being unblockable. This isn't a thing in any fighting games I have seen. Even a much faster pacing game with stickies (Kira from Jojo ASB comes to mind), stickies are still blockable while still giving the player mind game advantage. There are some scenarios which can happen when bombs hit (which isn't as hard as it seems as you can easily combo into it and possibly snowball into ez game, given the amount of oki set up he has).
+ Opponents just keep blocking: While the framedata has been nerf'd, it is still good. Jack can perform all kind of blockstings and then the bomb detonates.
+ Opponents roll: Jack will just grab them. Opponents wake up and bombs go boom. Ez oki set up.
+ Opponents run away to wait the bomb to about to go off so they can roll: Jack sets up more oki or can just chase them since he can run.
+ Opponents try to throw Jack when the bomb is about to go off to abuse the invin from throw: Hard to throw when Jack just doesn't care and mash safe buttons with long range.
As you can see, there is no counter play for opponents in any situations I can think of. Unblockable bomb is dumb. Make the stickies disappear when Jack is hit or make it blockable is fine either way.
Re: Jack Krauser (PotS Style) by Varo_Hades
#18  October 20, 2019, 11:31:37 am
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Re: Jack Krauser (PotS Style) by Varo_Hades
#19  October 21, 2019, 10:32:29 pm
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Went ahead and released the update, there's still some issues that I pointed out but he should hopefully not be super BORKED this time.
First post as per the norm, yeah.
Re: Jack Krauser (PotS Style) by Varo_Hades
#20  October 21, 2019, 11:26:57 pm
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Went ahead and released the update, there's still some issues that I pointed out but he should hopefully not be super BORKED this time.
First post as per the norm, yeah.

Dude, thank you. You have been delivering on the updates to make Krauser better to fight in the long run of things cause his moveset and data is solid for now.