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The Importance of Accuracy in Mugen??? (Read 9381 times)

Started by hjk, August 11, 2007, 08:02:16 am
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The Importance of Accuracy in Mugen???
#1  August 11, 2007, 08:02:16 am
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This is a bit of a fudgy topic that has gained the attention of almost all creators and has become something that all Mugen Creations are judged by.

If you wish please post after reading all of it, and if by the end some of it is unimportant please mention that here ^_^


I dunno, accuracy seems to tend toward a bit of obsession   :-\. The amount of things that I have seen considered and that I've read about, concerning accuracy, is Amazing while at the same time, over the top  o_O ("How in the hell did you have time to study that")


A lot of the time when we talk about accuracy and someone not having it; we tend not to consider that the person creating the char may not have wanted their char to be accurate in the first place. It seems as though anything that doesn't explicitly present itself as 'out of the norm' is subjected to being judged based on how accurate it is.


Secondly, so many chars go further and advertise themselves ase accurate, meaning that a lot of the time I play mugen, I am downloading th same char over and over again (Kyo!!). And even sometimes I can see clear differences in chars that advertise themselves as accurate (Iori!!) and arguments over them run rampant.


But really, why is such accuracy necessary?? Yeah its cool/interesting and all, but I mean, normally I play Mugen because I'm bored of the limitations in regular fighting games.
Usually the involvement of accuracy in Mugen leads to arguments, in which accuracy itself is said to be one way by one party, and another way by the another party.

I guess the only time I agree with being accurate 100% is when it concerns 'possible' balance in mugen (aka ain't gonna happen  :S).
Maybe balance sort of could exist if you're playing with chars from the same game and the creators work together on them



BTW what are your opinions on Accuracy and its place in mugen... does it really belong or should we sort of loosen up a little?



Also what chars are the most corrupt as far as accuracy goes?/ What chars do you believe advertise themselves as accurate, and you believe ae absolutely not?:

KOF, CvS, SFA, FF, Guilty Gear, Melty Blood, etc.
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Last Edit: August 12, 2007, 12:56:47 pm by Tee Hee Hee
Re: The Importance of Accuracy in Mugen???
#2  August 12, 2007, 08:41:51 am
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But really, why is such accuracy necessary?? Yeah its cool/interesting and all, but I mean, normally I play Mugen because I'm bored of the limitations in regular fighting games.
Usually the involvement of accuracy in Mugen leads to arguments, in which accuracy itself is said to be one way by one party, and another way by the another party.
A certain degree of accuracy is necessary to make a decent char, and I'm not talking about game-specific accuracy but more like fighting game mechanics. If that is respected, creators can be as accurate or creative as they want and still make something good (even if some people's concept of "good" is limited to being accurate).
That is why stuff like Shin Evil Potato Salad gets trashed by many people so quickly, it ignores all of the above.

Quote
I guess the only time I agree with being accurate 100% is when it concerns 'possible' balance in mugen (aka ain't gonna happen  :S).
Even 100% accuracy in all chars wouldn't solve Mugen's natural lack of balance, unless of course your roster only has chars from one game. So if you know that, why do you agree? ???

Quote
BTW what are your opinions on Accuracy and its place in mugen... does it really belong or should we sort of loosen up a little?
That question makes things sound more complicated than they really are, IMO it's as simple as creators should do whatever the hell they want to with their chars. :P
Some want to make accurate chars, some want to deviate from that and others make everything up, just a matter of choice*. In the end it'd be boring if everyone made the same type of chars.

*Though some wouldn't choose to make everything up if they knew any better.

Quote
Also what chars are the most corrupt as far as accuracy goes?/ What chars do you believe advertise themselves as accurate, and you believe ae absolutely not?
Most chars that get labeled as accurate have a pretty narrow view on accuracy, ie I don't think I've ever seen something you could call "arcade perfect" as there's always some detail that's off.

Bah, tired of typing already, why did you post so many points? ;P
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Re: The Importance of Accuracy in Mugen???
#3  August 12, 2007, 09:02:31 am
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Fong's characters are inaccurate and I like them. The key is getting things to FEEL right.
Re: The Importance of Accuracy in Mugen???
#4  August 12, 2007, 09:22:14 am
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It's just like P.o.t.S. said and I couldn't have said it any better:
A certain degree of accuracy is necessary to make a decent char, and I'm not talking about game-specific accuracy but more like fighting game mechanics. If that is respected, creators can be as accurate or creative as they want and still make something good (even if some people's concept of "good" is limited to being accurate).
That is why stuff like Shin Evil Potato Salad gets trashed by many people so quickly, it ignores all of the above.
Re: The Importance of Accuracy in Mugen???
#5  August 12, 2007, 09:37:42 am
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yes, just like POTS said. and also, i think ppl like to create ppl very accurately because will be all like, "what the fuck? guile doesn't do hadouken!" most ppl, including me, like chars ALMOST perfectly accurate (unless they're shitty by the get-go) and then have other chars that have those nice edited moves and those shin ultra super sonic psychadelic evil holy lvl 50 ssj demon uber EX riot god orochi quarter-pounder master names w/ them weird palletes and custom looks.   :) It wouldn't hurt to add in extra moves to accurate chars though that are relevent to the char. (i.e. waru's terry has an extra tackle and split kick.)
It's true that if you own a PS3 then all arguments made by those who don't have one are invalid.

hjk

Re: The Importance of Accuracy in Mugen???
#6  August 12, 2007, 12:50:34 pm
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Thanks for the replies guys  ;)



I guess the only time I agree with being accurate 100% is when it concerns 'possible' balance in mugen (aka ain't gonna happen  :S).

Even 100% accuracy in all chars wouldn't solve Mugen's natural lack of balance, unless of course your roster only has chars from one game. So if you know that, why do you agree? ???

Sorry about that.

Changing Post to "Only if you are doing battles with chars from the same game." Even though sometimes when their from teh same game there might still be some inbalance.  :-\

Quote
BTW what are your opinions on Accuracy and its place in mugen... does it really belong or should we sort of loosen up a little?
IMO it's as simple as creators should do whatever the hell they want to with their chars. :P
Some want to make accurate chars, some want to deviate from that and others make everything up, just a matter of choice*. In the end it'd be boring if everyone made the same type of chars.

Makes me feel like a hypocrite for even asking that question LOL.

I should have added on to that, knowing that it spurs so many arguments where either side can make a claim that what they're doing is accurate.


I don't think I've ever seen something you could call "arcade perfect" as there's always some detail that's off.

Most "Arcade Perfect" chars as far as I've seen only come out as just "Inaccurate Cheese" and if you were to put those said to be "Arcade Perfect" Mugen chars against the real ones, the ones originally from teh Arcade would get thrashed.






Fong's characters are inaccurate and I like them. The key is getting things to FEEL right.

100% Agreed.
Feel in a character gets it love in my book.  :)
I wish we had a "MMM...Tasy" or a "Hugs Smily" (Nobody take that the wrong way LOL)






Most ppl, including me, like chars ALMOST perfectly accurate (unless they're shitty by the get-go)

:yes: - Agreed


Then have other chars that have those nice edited moves and those shin ultra super sonic psychadelic evil holy lvl 50 ssj demon uber EX riot god orochi quarter-pounder master names w/ them weird palletes and custom looks.   :)
It wouldn't hurt to add in extra moves to accurate chars though that are relevent to the char. (i.e. waru's terry has an extra tackle and split kick.)

Absolutely
LOL, Caddie's the man!! ;)

I'm as real as the runnin, I just happen to rap, Nigaas London, Japan, and i'm scared of dat tap.

I suggest extending my banning, cuz when I come back, it's gonna be hell. You think I was annoying before, oh man, it's on now :)
hjk vs. 99% of MFG. I will win.

RIP Poo Bear Tell my Dead Homie isson, for the year my partner.
Last Edit: August 12, 2007, 12:54:40 pm by Tee Hee Hee
Re: The Importance of Accuracy in Mugen???
#7  August 12, 2007, 01:35:15 pm
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My chars are very accurated with the original ones and I like it....
Re: The Importance of Accuracy in Mugen???
#8  August 12, 2007, 02:05:05 pm
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PotS said it all, but for me, there has to be some 'accuracy' in characters for them to be good.

I mean, there's people who feel they achieved something when they make accurate characters, and there's those who only see achievement through making up their own crap. Just depends ...
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Re: The Importance of Accuracy in Mugen???
#9  August 12, 2007, 02:22:34 pm
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i dont make characters yet because am still kind of new but everyday am learning :), but i also agree i like accuracy in the chars am downloading and using, if they dont have this acuracy i usually just get rid of them but i also like a few unique things about them to but as long as the char stays true to his originality then am happy and a few extra power house moves shouldnt hurt.

cvs 2 is my fav style in any fighting game evr made and i try to have only chars based off that game with a few power house bosses like god ryu :), my game isnt totally balanced but its as balanced as its gonna get and i can still complete the arcade mode on hard 8 with regular cvs akuma so i kinda think my mugen is balanced to some degree.
Last Edit: August 12, 2007, 02:25:36 pm by Spirit_Moon
Re: The Importance of Accuracy in Mugen???
#10  August 12, 2007, 02:28:59 pm
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I'm unable to care about accuracy in most cases as many of these 2D fighters I've never played before. Aside from the MK series, SFA3, Guilty Gear X2 and Isuka, I wouldn't be able to spot accuracy in other fighters. And even with the ones I listed, I wouldn't be able to tell how accurate an "accurate" character should be.
Quote
Imagine a zanguief runing to attack ryu, ryu does a quick+kind of weak fast punch and hit the chest of zanguief, will this punch be enough to zanguief say/think \"oh no, this punch hurted a little, I better stop the attack and put my hand on my chest to help contain the pain while ignoring if ryu is going to make other attacks now"


Cenobite 53 said:
If someone isn't able to get girls laid, why buying this exorcist needing piece of retardet piece of bullshit an not wisiting his local red light district. For that money he could  :hump: tons of hookers.

hjk

Re: The Importance of Accuracy in Mugen???
#11  August 12, 2007, 03:03:57 pm
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cvs 2 is my fav style in any fighting game evr made and i try to have only chars based off that game with a few power house bosses like god ryu :), my game isnt totally balanced but its as balanced as its gonna get and i can still complete the arcade mode on hard 8 with regular cvs akuma so i kinda think my mugen is balanced to some degree.

That's cool. Way to go with Akuma :yes:

CvS2 Mugen is the one I focus myself on most but the sad thing about it is that CvS2 suffers the least balance as far as chars labeled "accurate" go.



I'm unable to care about accuracy in most cases as many of these 2D fighters I've never played before. Aside from the MK series, SFA3, Guilty Gear X2 and Isuka, I wouldn't be able to spot accuracy in other fighters. And even with the ones I listed, I wouldn't be able to tell how accurate an "accurate" character should be.


Maybe that's more of a positive, IMO, accuracy is more of a curse LOL.




OFF - TOPIC

Woah, never played the games... You should probably start watching some tournaments:


I reccommend KOF XI Tourneys they're the most interesting to me :yes:
I used to be a CvS2 Free Tourney "EX" groove fan but now XI holds my heart in tourneys even though I've never played that game X_x.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kb0HGwpIq8o

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRJsKrkrQu4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkXW3BR2G_I
LOL, Caddie's the man!! ;)

I'm as real as the runnin, I just happen to rap, Nigaas London, Japan, and i'm scared of dat tap.

I suggest extending my banning, cuz when I come back, it's gonna be hell. You think I was annoying before, oh man, it's on now :)
hjk vs. 99% of MFG. I will win.

RIP Poo Bear Tell my Dead Homie isson, for the year my partner.
Re: The Importance of Accuracy in Mugen???
#12  August 13, 2007, 06:13:42 am
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PungKo is a god. But the dude he was VSing was good too.

And I agree, KOFXI videos are much more enjoyable to watch than other fighters.
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Re: The Importance of Accuracy in Mugen???
#13  August 14, 2007, 06:41:24 pm
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For me, accuracy is a good but not necessary thing. While I prefer creativity, flexibility and that stuff over accuracy, I must say that creators who aim at accuracy should receive (at least for me) more credit.

For example, I enjoy much more playing with my God Rugal than with Warusaki's.  But his work and effort, I'm sure, was much more than what I did.

There are some people, however, that are extremist and disregard non-accurate chars as bad, or viceversa. This excess, as everything in life, is bad IMO.

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Last Edit: August 14, 2007, 06:48:03 pm by The Lord of the Flies
Re: The Importance of Accuracy in Mugen???
#14  August 14, 2007, 06:56:10 pm
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most of the time a creator makes a character becasue he likes it, as a player you might download a character becasue you like it. most of the liking of the character is liking how it plays, this is where accuracy comes to play, if i like how angel plays in kof2002, i will try and make an angel as accurate as possible to it; same for just downloading.
Re: The Importance of Accuracy in Mugen???
#15  August 14, 2007, 07:05:33 pm
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Well the accuracy depends on the creator sorry to say. You can change things here or there to fit how the character would actually play but then again it takes fooling with the original product.

But essentially it comes down to two things that conflict with one another:

- Accuracy of the canon

- Accuracy of the game itself.

These two often don't agree with one another.
Re: The Importance of Accuracy in Mugen???
#16  August 14, 2007, 07:37:42 pm
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You totally missed the point of this topic by mentioning canon.



I shall reiterate: The key is getting things to feel right. Jin's characters are guesswork yet his Ash is still the best one out there.

It's pretty much impossible to have 100% accuracy unless you want to break the Hell out of MUGEN.
Re: The Importance of Accuracy in Mugen???
#17  August 14, 2007, 08:00:14 pm
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Some people say a creation is arcade perfect if they never played with that character nor the character isn't even from an arcade.

hjk

Re: The Importance of Accuracy in Mugen???
#18  August 14, 2007, 08:13:59 pm
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Some people say a creation is arcade perfect if they never played with that character nor the character isn't even from an arcade.

So true.




I just plain don't think Boss Type chars make an AI coder good at all and that includes me.


To make a Boss AI is just to prove that you can code a char with all types of unbalanced cheap advantages, but your not coding a 'good AI,' your creating a God Damn CHEAP char. That's nothing special at all.



That's why I worship H' and maybe CCI.

Sure I haven't checked their coding, but the fact that I've never felt compelled to says it all for me.
I suspect a few minor things, yes, but I have never seen their chars do something that is just so utterly sneaky/broken and their chars seem to be THE CLOSEST but not absolutely, to "Human Possible" when in play/when running Mugen. Again I haven't bothered to check the codiing though.
LOL, Caddie's the man!! ;)

I'm as real as the runnin, I just happen to rap, Nigaas London, Japan, and i'm scared of dat tap.

I suggest extending my banning, cuz when I come back, it's gonna be hell. You think I was annoying before, oh man, it's on now :)
hjk vs. 99% of MFG. I will win.

RIP Poo Bear Tell my Dead Homie isson, for the year my partner.
Last Edit: August 14, 2007, 08:22:00 pm by Tee Hee Hee
Re: The Importance of Accuracy in Mugen???
#19  August 14, 2007, 08:27:54 pm
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I don't code AI, it's too troublesome.

hjk

Re: The Importance of Accuracy in Mugen???
#20  August 14, 2007, 08:36:30 pm
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LOL, Caddie's the man!! ;)

I'm as real as the runnin, I just happen to rap, Nigaas London, Japan, and i'm scared of dat tap.

I suggest extending my banning, cuz when I come back, it's gonna be hell. You think I was annoying before, oh man, it's on now :)
hjk vs. 99% of MFG. I will win.

RIP Poo Bear Tell my Dead Homie isson, for the year my partner.