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About clsn boxes in stand and crouch gethits (Read 3925 times)

Started by xvynx, October 12, 2007, 06:45:07 pm
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About clsn boxes in stand and crouch gethits
#1  October 12, 2007, 06:45:07 pm
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My question her is if standing gethits animations (5000s) should have the same blue clsn boxes as standing animation (animation 0) or at least the first frame of the stand anim? i personally think its better that way but dont know if its more accurate or what, so plz all knowing creators out there gimmie some pointers

same for crouch gethit anims, should they be hte same as crouching animation?

tnx
Re: About clsn boxes in stand and crouch gethits
#2  October 12, 2007, 07:34:45 pm
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it is better and more accurate in general.
Re: About clsn boxes in stand and crouch gethits
#3  October 12, 2007, 11:00:21 pm
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Straight from KOF

Re: About clsn boxes in stand and crouch gethits
#4  October 12, 2007, 11:05:24 pm
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KoF != everything

Most of the time the first gethit frame will probably be very similar to the standing sprites anyway. If you use what's there it shouldn't be too much of an issue.


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Re: About clsn boxes in stand and crouch gethits
#5  October 12, 2007, 11:43:37 pm
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not that i kof the original standing are is still covered, just the area behind the character gets increased.

vyn

Re: About clsn boxes in stand and crouch gethits
#6  October 13, 2007, 04:10:45 am
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ok... im not sure what to do now, if htat is indeed stright from kof then clsns fit the sprite not the stance, the area is not just incrased, its pretty different in that animation, amm, is there a way to see clsn boxes in an emulator? or how do u guys know its accurate or that those clsns are straight from kof?? the character im asking this for is mvc style for what its worth and most my chars are cvc/mvc neway (i mean they are capcom)

tnx for all the help, i would also like to hear personal points of view on what is better and why, i dont have to be accurate really, tnx
Re: About clsn boxes in stand and crouch gethits
#7  October 13, 2007, 05:30:33 am
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Quote
Don't be too detailed with your collision boxes. The point is not to make a pixel-accurate representation of the character, but to make one that is game-friendly. For example, boxes for your character on the ground should have Clsn2 boxes that span the space between both legs. In this case, too much detail is actually undesirable.
Quoted from the mugen tut within your docs folder. Check out page 2. When you can't get the clsns like you can in KoF run by those rules.


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Re: About clsn boxes in stand and crouch gethits
#8  October 13, 2007, 09:21:25 am
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Well I have some tips on Capcom Clsn:

- Clsn for basic anims like standing, crouching and walking should remain the same during all frames. The ones on jumping anims shouldn't vary much either
- Clsn for turning anims should be the same as standing/crouching. Or was it the same, but mirrored? Can't recall atm...
- Try not using more than 3 Clsn2 (head, torso and legs) and 1 Clsn1 in each frame in ground anims, and 2 Clsn2 and 1 Clsn1 in air anims
- Ground Gethit Clsn should be at least similar to the standing/crouching anims. In Vampire Hunter you can actually see they're exactly alike and that's what I do with all my chars, but that's not the case in SFZ2 for example*
- Air Get Hit anims should be big enough to allow juggling, not like KFM's tiny Clsn... I personally like to use KoF's method on this one and have the same Clsn for most anims
- Standing/crouching guard Clsn should be same as the stance/crouching anim, and air guard should be the same as a key frame in the jumping anims

* Try doing Ken's Tatsumaki close to Chun-li, the spinning hits only connect when she recovers from the first, proving that the Clsn2 on Chun-li's low gethit anim are lower than the standing anim's. Same happens in SFZ3 (not with that move though) but I can't get stuff like this to happen in CvS2, which seems to follow the same rule as Vampire Hunter

Can't think of anything else atm...
Some reference chars you could check on this are my Karin and Tukemon's Ryu and Yuri.


is there a way to see clsn boxes in an emulator?
For KOF (except 2003) and SvC, use Kawaks and enable dipswitch 1-2 or Nebula and dipswitch 0-1. Those options should be easy to find if you look around.
Vampire Hunter is trickier because of the funky Saturn emulation... but if you get it to run you just need to check GameFAQs for the debug cheat.

Elix said:
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p59/Elix13/KOFHardHit.gif
Why did you add the shaking in the anim? ??? That'll overlap with Mugen's own hitshake and probably cause something you don't want.
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Re: About clsn boxes in stand and crouch gethits
#9  October 13, 2007, 04:18:46 pm
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Why did you add the shaking in the anim? ??? That'll overlap with Mugen's own hitshake and probably cause something you don't want.
Thank you for asking :mellow: Everything's for the sake of KOF accuracy. KOF hitshake is a 2-pixel shake while MUGEN standard shake is a 1-pixel shake. As you've said, hitshake's two-frame animation with axis overriding does overlap with Mugen's own hitshake, so I just needed to make an additional -1 pixel displacement. I also removed this controller from hitshake states:
[State 5000, 4] ;Freeze anim
type = ChangeAnim
trigger1 = Time > 0
value = anim
The example of hitshake's anim:
;Stand/Air Hit High (Light)
[Begin Action 5000]
Clsn2Default: 2
  Clsn2[0] = -24, -88, 16, 0
  Clsn2[1] = -32, -104, 0, -72
Loopstart
5000,0, 0,0, 1
5000,0, -1,0, 1
I've properly taken screenshots in Mugen and made sure that now there is a 2-pixel hitshake.
And about that "something I don't want". You mean when P2 puts me into custom state and use ChangeAnim? In that case I'll see a shaking Kyo... Maybe I'll reconsider and mess with PosAdd to gain that 2-pixel hitshake. Thanks for paying attention to this, PotS.
Re: About clsn boxes in stand and crouch gethits
#10  October 13, 2007, 05:29:04 pm
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Goddamn it Elix, I love accuracy but the accuracy you strive for is totally beyond my comprehension. =X


Anyway, this is from my scarce experience but CLSNs should never change when your character is in his neutral stance, when your character is turning, when your character is walking, when your character is in the 'jump start' frame etc. There's more I think but you get the point.

Also, Clsn2Default is your friend.
composer/producer

vyn

Re: About clsn boxes in stand and crouch gethits
#11  October 13, 2007, 06:53:44 pm
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thanx a lot, all this has been very helful i kinda got the feeling from cvs and sfz that keeping the same clsns in gethits was the way to go from playing them so much and felt just right but i wasnt sure, all these refrences confirm it, again, tnx a lot

i personally think that for the way mugen works following this rule would help mantaining an overall common behaviour in characters, therefore a more consistent gameplay

i didnt consider the air and guard anims b4 tough, ill look at those too

isnt it a pain in the ass when u decide to change something in all your characters? XD ya ive only relased 2 but if u guys saw my wip roster u would understand my annoiance
Re: About clsn boxes in stand and crouch gethits
#12  October 14, 2007, 07:39:42 am
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And about that "something I don't want". You mean when P2 puts me into custom state and use ChangeAnim? In that case I'll see a shaking Kyo... Maybe I'll reconsider and mess with PosAdd to gain that 2-pixel hitshake. Thanks for paying attention to this, PotS.
Nah, I was just talking about having both hitshakes overlapping, which left me wondering whether or not you noticed it. His anim shaking in custom states shouldn't be a problem either because when those anims are used they're supposed to shake anyway.
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