Iced said, July 13, 2014, 06:53:36 pm@rednavi: your "jokes" about the game being bad were pretty bad as is here, now you were doing those "jokes" even on evo stream.We as a team talked and we are cordially inviting you to never post in any of our threads or attending any of our events again. You may be jealous or angry or trying to troll but the passive agressive jokes you keep doing are not giving off a great image of anything, much less mugen. Dont post anymore thanks.what did he say on evo stream, i would like to know
Titiln said, July 13, 2014, 06:59:08 pmwhat did he say on evo stream, i would like to knowamidst other things that all it takes to get to evo is to make broken games. I dont care about his jokes or his excuses about how he needed to be doing that at evo stream. I dont want him to even post here, his behaviour is not appropriate.
Iced said, July 13, 2014, 06:53:36 pm@rednavi: your "jokes" about the game being bad were pretty bad as is here, now you were doing those "jokes" even on evo stream.We as a team talked and we are cordially inviting you to never post in any of our threads or attending any of our events again. You may be jealous or angry or trying to troll but the passive agressive jokes you keep doing are not giving off a great image of anything, much less mugen. Dont post anymore thanks.Not that I don't understand your anger, but this is like Death Cargo level. Just cause somebody has negative opinions on your game doesn't mean you need to publically call them out and basically whine saying "you're wrong, stay away and never talk to us ever." It's unprofessional and petty. Trying to make this about MUGEN in general is false equivalency. Complaining somebody in a goddamn twitch chat is "trolling" is excessive. This is insanely childish on all of your parts. You could've just ignored him, there were damn sure a lot more people than just him who had similar jokes about your game, but since hes an easy and known target, idk what to say.
Heavily disagree, someone going to a twitch stream chat on and on about how "seems only bad broken games make it to evo" is not criticism in the least. At the least its jealousy , at most its "jokes" that shouldnt being done while we are showcasing something to the people outside of the community.There are times and places for eveyrthing, you wouldnt "friendly rib" your friend about his farts when he was giving a speech about his medical research to a group of medical research students, you only end up making him look bad .He was already doing that at guild until he was asked to stop doing it, he went and tried to do more of it during the event.He's still cordially invited to never show up again.The community ends up making the community look bad.I dont think this needs to be discussed further, navi seems to have undestood, everyone else seems to understand why his behaviour wasnt really acceptable. Dude isnt getting banned from giving feedback or anything, you are falsely equating the situation with death cargo where they banned people that gave them negative criticism and removed their ability to buy/download the game.
Idk seems like youre intimidating, and publically calling out somebody who dislikes your game because he dislikes it. A twitch chat doesnt have rules against making fun of shit, and how would anyone know he was even a member of the community?I feel like its an issue worth addressing, but I guess we can continue on in private or elsewhere
Gimmie a break.Replying to someone that repeteadly "jokes" about how your project is terrible while not giving feedback and telling him to stop doing it is not intimidating him. Dude was one of our beta testers if he wanted to give feedback and criticism he is more than welcome to do it.Sure we can talk about it privately, no point derailing this.
Alright, since I'm the man of the hour here (Or was it while I was writing this! It took me that long!) I may as well drop my point of view before being soft-banned (Again in less than 24 hours) from this thread. This will be my only post about this so I'll make sure to not to derail this any further past this post. Sorry for bringing up the negativity again for a short time but I whatever I wrote enough shit here for you to read so go on.Yes I probably said something similar to "Hey this game only made it to EVO because it's broken", I don't recall the exact wording. Guess what? That post was directly followed by a Kappa emoticon. And guess what? EVO is pretty much known for hosting broken games from big companies. May I remind you of SSFIV AE before the 2012 patch? Tekken 6 with Bob everywhere? UMVC3 every year? MVC2 in the past? Even SFII is a highly broken game. This joke was even made quite early in the stream so there wasn't even many people there to begin with compared to when the actual tournament started.Yes, it was a joke, which was there with tons of other jokes by other people, like in ANY twitch chat where everybody spams :Kappa:, :salt: and other emoticons while saying funny or irrelevant shit once in a while. The main reason I mentioned the whole "broken" stuff to begin with was because A) UMVC3 was next in the schedule (Some HDBZ players were leaving to play UMVC3 lol. Blame the schedule fuck ups) and B) Because two of the characters, while finalized, were highly untested and were bound to have tons of broken stuff (Like it happened with every character, and there's nothing wrong with that I mean you can't possibly find every single broken thing when you have few testers compared to a big company).To make things worse there were a grand total of five people I didn't know from the chat that were actively participating on it. That's five guys who didn't know me nor I knew them. Oh yeah, I gave the entire community such a bad look even though nobody outside of it even knows who I am nor paid attention to me whatsoever, and the people who knew me knows that I wasn't serious and were just playing along (Most of them were either from the guild/infinity/other forums I know and a few others from several IRC channels I'm part of). And even most of the five guys knew that I was joking and played along as well as you could see with the correct use of emoticons (They're complex shit ).Let me see what else I talked about hmm... oh yeah, the sound quality was BAD during the first half of the stream, I mentioned that twice (Like everybody else did) and once the guy in charge of the stream mentioned that he was going to stop the stream to fix it I never mentioned it again.Hmm, oh right, the part where I said how wizzy's music was kinda earrape-ish because of the sound quality (Which was set to mono I think? It was definitely buggy) and how it was wizzy's fault because he was supposed to make music that sounds fine even under those ridiculous circumstances (He, of course, knew that I was joking and laughed. I know that guy since forever even though I don't talk to him nowadays).Then the part where I tell Cybaster how he thought it was a good idea to make Vegeta's super unblockable during Rage Mode (Combokyo warned you about this bro! He warned you! ) which makes it even more hilarious because Cybaster knows I'm just joking with coding-wise crap with him like I always do, so him getting mad at me for that was definitely puzzling for me, considering that Iced says the entire team has the same opinion and I have nothing else to do but to believe him.Set camerabound Y to 0 during Gohan's intro with the nimbus. That wasn't even a joke so it doesn't count.Got hyped about a few matches a few times blahblahblah, that doesn't count either.The rock song was getting repetitive because it was used in the entire screenpack and then in the EVO stage as well but I don't think anybody got offended by that comment?? Dunno what to think anymore.There was some talk about how people would wish to play it online using GGPO (And some dude linked to a very shady site with an "online mugen" as well but whatever)...A joke about the top 8 character picks (SSJ Goku, SSJ Goku, SSJ Goku, SSJ Goku, SSJ Goku, SSJ Goku, SSJ Goku, Vegeta. I know I'm hilarious).Laptop battery ran low during the tournament. Didn't joke about it.Of course, the part where you say anything good about the game totally gets ignored because all the people have the same opinion about it. I mean how can you possibly think that anybody is being serious about the game being at EVO only because it's a broken game when it has 100% original spritework, great stages and original CPS2 music, and is not even remotely broken as in the past???The part where I say "this is one of the two only things I was looking forward to download related to mugen" gets ignored because that's not me hating on the game (The other being Bia & Co. SF2 NES). Heck I don't even hate the game, I like it, that's why I was watching the stream to begin with.And since this directly involves Iced (What a surprise) I will have to break my self imposed rules of never clicking on the "You are ignoring this user. Click the bar to show." boxes and actually read what he says (And just to make it clear, I'm not saying this to rub it on his face, I'm saying this so it gets clear why I haven't noticed all of this until somebody at IRC talked to me about it. Tagging me with @ does not give me a notification if I'm ignoring that person. Not sure if a forum bug or a feature).Iced said, July 13, 2014, 06:53:36 pm@rednavi: your "jokes" about the game being bad were pretty bad as is here, now you were doing those "jokes" even on evo stream.We as a team talked and we are cordially inviting you to never post in any of our threads or attending any of our events again. You may be jealous or angry or trying to troll but the passive agressive jokes you keep doing are not giving off a great image of anything, much less mugen. Dont post anymore thanks.Iced said, July 14, 2014, 12:00:07 pmDude isnt getting banned from giving feedback or anything, you are falsely equating the situation with death cargo where they banned people that gave them negative criticism and removed their ability to buy/download the game.Iced said, July 13, 2014, 06:53:36 pmWe as a team talked and we are cordially inviting you to never post in any of our threads or attending any of our events again. Thanks a lot for the cordial ban, I am not banned from giving any feedback yet I'm banned from actually posting in the thread where I'm supposed to give feedback. Guess I could always send a PM! But then it gets even more awkward because the situation is so fucking tense and awful that I personally don't even feel like sending a PM to anybody now. It's my problem! I'll deal with it, don't worry!Iced said, July 14, 2014, 12:10:51 pmSkullgirls forum? Kinda surprised that they noticed it. There is a neogaf thread dunno if you seen it.Surprised? Hardly, considering that a lot of people promoted it (Guess who also tweeted about the event? Guess who convinced his RL friends to watch the stream? Come on, you can do it, guess who's going to destroy the mugen community by promoting one of the mugen games with the most original and awesome spritework?) and Shockdingo is known over there.Iced said, July 14, 2014, 12:09:01 pmGimmie a break.Replying to someone that repeteadly "jokes" about how your project is terrible while not giving feedback and telling him to stop doing it is not intimidating him. Dude was one of our beta testers if he wanted to give feedback and criticism he is more than welcome to do it."repeatedly"? thanks. Now I know how walt feels like when he's either taken out of context or you greatly exaggerate something. See, this is why two or three months ago I told you to never talk to me again and why I put you on the ignore list. Pretty awful how we went from friends to this, but I regret nothing because I'd rather not be a friend of somebody who genuinely thought that I was JZ's minion once and how I had no opinion of my own, or somebody who's going to have a negative opinion about me at all times just because I disagreed with two or three things in the forum. There's nothing wrong about having a bias against me, I dislike you and the way you handle things nowadays and I'm honest about it just like how I'm honest about everything around here (Because why bother lying when I have nothing to protect anyway? Internet cred? What is that? Saving face? No thanks, that's stupid).For example: this right here. I'm greatly surprised that @umezono: even posted something slightly on my favor considering how people rarely talk against you to begin with. And you know why there aren't more people here defending me even though they told me that what I did at the stream wasn't a big deal? Because they don't give three fucks about me, just like most of the community, and that is totally fine because I'm just one guy among thousands here.Iced said, July 14, 2014, 12:00:07 pmHeavily disagree, someone going to a twitch stream chat on and on about how "seems only bad broken games make it to evo" is not criticism in the least. At the least its jealousy , at most its "jokes" that shouldnt being done while we are showcasing something to the people outside of the community.The game was known for being broken prior to EVO thanks to a lot of people making combo videos and glitch videos about it. The game was known prior to me posting about it as broken, and people knew that a more polished build was going to be part of EVO. People also knew that I was joking because Jesus Christ not writing this again.The same people are also part of either the mugen or the FG community, you know, communities that are known for this kind of banter among their members. Would you really get that upset about somebody jokingly calling you a fraud when you win a KOF XIII tournament? You are extremely sensitive when it comes to people who are not your closest friends. Wish you knew what many respectable members of the community around here even think about you, maybe then you'll realize how blown out of proportion all of this (And many complains you often post) is.Iced said, July 14, 2014, 12:00:07 pmAt the least its jealousy , at most its "jokes" that shouldnt being done while we are showcasing something to the people outside of the community.There are times and places for eveyrthing, you wouldnt "friendly rib" your friend about his farts when he was giving a speech about his medical research to a group of medical research students, you only end up making him look bad .That comparison is so out of place I don't even know what to say. If anything you should talk about how a person points out something that's scientificaly incorrect during his friend's speech, because that's the equivalent to a glitch in mugen. A fart's equivalent in mugen would've been... me talking about Cybaster's farts in the chat, which didn't happen and doesn't make any sense, just like your fucking exaggerated example. ggIced said, July 14, 2014, 12:00:07 pmHe was already doing that at guild until he was asked to stop doing it, he went and tried to do more of it during the event.He's still cordially invited to never show up again.The community ends up making the community look bad.Wrong, I stopped back then because I put you on my ignore list, hence I stopped reading your posts. I also mostly joked about you back then (And probably about me being lazy to create challenge mode combos for this game), not about the game. It was funny to see you calling HDBZ "My game" a couple of times so it came off as dumb and kinda egotistical but unlike you I never exaggerated it and went on a rant about how you're the most or least important part of the team, instead I just dropped it and moved on.Now for the actually important people (As in, the ones I do care about):@Balthazar: Sorry if I came out as rude during the stream but I'm still quite surprised at the amount of flak I got over so little, especially when I actually said good things about the game as well. But I guess the bad things are the only things that are always heard (Because let's face it, the chat was mostly full of praise every now and then, besides a bit of "VEGETA 2 OP" spam).Apparently, this being one of the two projects I give a fuck about on mugen is not enough but one joke about how the game is (Or rather, was, before the EVO build) broken was enough to bury anything good said about the game. I never even criticized your spritework because seriously, there was not even a single thing you could joke about it as it was just amazing (Funny thing, most of the people were complaining about Frieza's walking anim. Not sure who was in charge of that but I never complained about it in the chat).With that said I am sure you'll not take any apology I can offer as I already know your opinion about me and know how you called me like during/after the stream so no idea what to do really, what's done is done. I can however say that if there's anything I can do to make the situation any better then I'm all ears, however if you really think that I'm jealous of you, that I wish your game/project to crash and burn and that there's really no way to fix this and you'll hate me for the rest of your life then I'll ask you to remove me from Facebook because let's be honest, why would you have such a horrible guy as me on your friend list? Don't worry I'll understand, no grudges.@Star Fucker: (Jesus Christ, go back to your original name already ). This is the one I was surprised about the most. If what Iced says is true then you think exactly the same as him. You already know how I am and that I wasn't being serious nor I really think I was that pushy about things (I haven't even mentioned more than 3 glitches or so, Jesus). We know each other since the Batman era ffs and you were always a guy with a great sense of humor, so seeing you thinking exactly the same as Iced was pretty fucked up for me but I understand how teams work like, and that's why I never work with teams.I was initially going to send you a PM and try to fix everything in private but then more posts happened here and it just felt so damn unfair I'd rather post it here to clear things up with everybody. I haven't slept thinking about what was I supposed to write in the PM but oh well at the end I posted here in front of everybody. Iced brought it up to everybody and well, I may as well do it too. If anybody's going to destroy the little reputation I've ever attained over the years that's going to be me, damn right.Same offer as Balthazar goes to you. If there's anything I can do to fix the situation just let me know and I'll see what can I do about that. If the situation has no point of return though then you better let me know so I stop with the friendly banter and talk to you like I would with any standard user I don't know about nor knew for over 7 years.There you go, it probably took an hour to write this if not more. I thought I left the internet drama behind long time ago but guess one just can't drop it, it drags you back. I hope I never have to write this kind of shit ever again. I'll take the experience and learn from it, and probably stop feeling so comfortably around people I never met in real life because it only leads to shit like this. Never again, time to be a bot from now on.Feel free to drag this to the shit topic once you're done reading this or split it into its own topic (Not worth it really). I would actually prefer to keep this post here but many will say that it will derail the thread even further. Well guess what, it probably wont as there's only 3 or 4 people involved on it and I'm not exactly the hottest topic to talk about. I'm also not going to reply to anybody here so I really doubt you can stretch this too far (I'm also going back to my "never open ignored users' posts" policy). I can see a few posts mocking me for some stupid shit I've said here but who the fuck cares, definitely not me anymore, I'll be playing something on steam or work on my own stuff in the meantime and maybe watch the SFIV finals (I missed most of the matches but was able to catch the final match, go Rose!).Good bye and have a good life everybody.
I guess... It's one thing that "one of your own" makes jokes about your game's problems within your group. It's one thing that stream monsters make kappa jokes all the time. But it's another that "one of your own" joins the others and jokes about your game being bad. It feels pretty terrible - regardless of how many are there to witness it and if they know that you're from the same group. This configuration now feels like there's actual malice in it, like a complete lack of decency and respect for the home team.
It was me who set Iced up to call you out, what you did was uncool even if you're covering you butt now. So he shouldn't be getting the big blame here. But your apology is accepted if you cease the behaviour you displayed, even if it was ment to be in a joking fashion.Perhaps not shit on the game as much as you did, even with the positive shout-outs throughout, be it in a friendly or jokey matter Though you did went AWOL on beta-testing back when, so don't complain you were excluded in later testsing sessions
Just to make things clear rednavi , I never considered your jokes as armful or anything, and what you did (or did not do, IMO) during the stream really wasn't a big deal to me.Quoting parts of the discussion I had with Iced before he posted this. Not trying to stir up ill-feeling, but your attitude never bothered me at all. But since most stuff flies pass me, I can't really say much when other people (Balthazar and Iced) get mad at somebody else (you), other than "well yeah, maybe, but I don't care".QuoteRednavi was making his usual jokes during the stream, and Ronnie must have taken them the wrong way. Or maybe they're meant to be taken the wrong way. I have no idea at this pointI can't remember the exact jokes, but they were armless to me...A bit like when someone said we should be cloned to go faster, but cloning you is useless...Yes, Rednavi's post were passive agressive, as he usually does. It's something I don't care about, but I can understand others can be annoyed by it...Iced : alright,then you dont mind if i ask him to stop?Me : nope. but I'm not the one who asked, coz I don't care. this comes from Balthazar and youAbout the beta-testing phases for Vegeta, maybe I didn't send it to you because you were out of Mugen at the time (I recall you didn't have internet or something for a few months, and didn't log to the forum), so I guess I removed you form the list of beta-testers and never included you back in.You've done a great job with Batman and Goku, so I really see no reason not to include you in future beta-tests if you're still up for it (even though, yeah, the whole situation here is not in favour of any of us... ).QuoteSame offer as Balthazar goes to you. If there's anything I can do to fix the situation just let me know and I'll see what can I do about that. If the situation has no point of return though then you better let me know so I stop with the friendly banter and talk to you like I would with any standard user I don't know about nor knew for over 7 years.There's nothing to change, the situation between us is still friendly as before. Sorry you took it as if I completely backed the whole team and got mad at you too without telling you. It's not the case.Maybe, as Balthazar said, just try to post less agressive jokes in some situtations. But if you're still up for beta-testing, you can post jokes, you know I don't care.
-Red- said, July 14, 2014, 02:11:49 pmAlright, since I'm the man of the hour here (Or was it while I was writing this! It took me that long!) I may as well drop my point of view before being soft-banned (Again in less than 24 hours) from this thread. This will be my only post about this so I'll make sure to not to derail this any further past this post. Sorry for bringing up the negativity again for a short time but I whatever I wrote enough shit here for you to read so go on.YoI read through the whole thing.for starters its interesting how much time you spend trying to vilanize me. Yes im proud of this team i belong to, I worked a lot there and every so often someone comes along trying to heckle them.There is a place and time for everything.Sarcastic jokes dont translate well to text, specially completely out of context.you are part of the community and we expected you to know better. We deal with hecklers all the time it would be nice that ex beta testers werent part of the people shouting "BROKEN OP GAMES AT EVO"even without trying the fixed version we had just prepared.I also see you are trying to pant me as persecuting you, guess what, i wasnt on when it happened, balthazar talked to me and asked me to do something about, I consulted cybaster, who as you can see in the quote told me he wasnt sure if you were trying to insult or not and then I consulted a bunch of other people trying to find out how best to approach you so you would know it was serious.The results i got was several persons telling me you enjoyed being rude towards people on purpose nowadays and were just trying to get people upset, and that you didnt know when to stop. I also got suggested to post in public because otherwise you would ignore any message and take it as a trolling trophy.The call out was public so others you cared more than any of us could point out that this kind of behaviour was shitty. and I know they did.We should be supporting each others, not being shitheads for lols.I would appreciate if next time you think about being rude for a laugh, you arent. No one is finding those bouts as hilarious as you seem to think they are.You can keep bragging about blocking me and not being my friend and such, I dont care, i think of you the same as before, and as such i will call you out when i think youre being kindof shitty. tldr that shit isnt funny please stop. You are not making friends you are pushing them off.QuoteWish you knew what many respectable members of the community around here even think about you, maybe then you'll realize how blown out of proportion all of this (And many complains you often post) is.gasp, people hate the iced, say it isnt so. Is that supposed to make me feel worse? better? I know several respectable members that told me you were being a shtihead to others on purpose and you thought it was hilarious, they kept telling me you were a jerk lately, does that change your behaviour any? I still dunno why you think that i hate you when i disapprove of something you do, do all your rl friends only approve of everything you do? You also go on to apologize to balth and cybaster even after trying to talk about persecution from me, so when I give you a message from balth and me it is persecution but the balth part is not? When there wouldnt even be a message if not for balth? My purpose is simple, trying to get you to understand you are being shitty before you burn bridges further. Did it work? I hope so. I guess i have to pm this to you because you already said you wouldnt read any of my posts.edit : what byakko said pretty much.
I dont want to pick up the Red Navi topic but as my humble opinion:I didnt knew he was an user from the Mfg forums neither the fact that he was part of the testers at the moment of Evo stream, and by the look of his comments he appeared as a random troll or a hater to me.I guess hes free to say whatever he wants but the way he said those things and the context not helping gived me the sensation (because i repeat, i didnt know he was an member of the guild and a tester) that he didnt looked like a person who followed and understood well this project.I apreciate his efforts of sharing and testing as he explained, but joking all the time can bring wrong impressions about yourself.
@Daeron:It's just another day for Rednavi. It starts as a series of "harmless jokes" then when he gets called out on it, well, one of two things happens:1) If it's in private, he'll change gears and attack his accuser, using personal information he knows about them to catch them emotionally off-guard.2) If it's in public, he'll play victim in an attempt to get people to side with him.Basically, instead of admitting he's wrong, it's more important for him to make other people look like the bad guy.Needless to say, nothing new here.
-Red- said, July 14, 2014, 02:11:49 pmWish you knew what many respectable members of the community around here even think about you
I don´t think Rednavi "jokes" were said with a bad intention but considering the moment at the event and all that stuff it was pretty distasteful all around.I mean, I can bash stuff too but I don´t choose the worst possible moment for it.
considering his reply to "stop making those jokes" was a n-line post of insults towards me followed by two short apologies to the other team members its hard not to see malice. Someone got caught and is trying to push others as the bad guy for his behaviour.how do the insults even justify anything. Are they there just to remind us that he doesnt think im cool? He had to be rude because "respectable" mugen people dislike me? Couldnt he have just apologized for the shitty behaviour without a huge preamble angry insult rant? Or was insulting me more important than apologizing for insulting balth before?The community makes itself look bad without a reason.
I know red decently and was there briefly before I left due to the stream lag really being offputting to me. I do have to ask you though iced have you ever been to an actual EVO chat its pretty uh nuts. sarcastic jokes are everywhere and I mean everywhere I just attended my first one this year chatwise and I can tell you it was crazier than even saltybet usually is. I really doubt red meant most if ANY of his jokes as an actual insult. You guys are being pretty sensitive. I wasn't there again to see what all he said but from what I got out of all this you overreacted this includes Balth to if he asked you to do this. I respect you both but you are both being to senstive about it, now about his reply I can't say much on the whole "iced is a bad guy" stuff as im not involved just wanted to post evo is not something that is mostly taken seriously when it comes to chat its NUTS! So I can see HIS point of view on this as well as yours.That being said the bit I did see I was happy with (besides friezas walk still don't like it) and I am very glad that you guys got shown at evo.
From what I see here I think the issue was blown up a bit disproportionally.I agree Red Navi shouldn't have said that. I was under the impression he was saying numerous things of the nature. It looks like that may not have been the case. It also seems that Balth and Cybaster are not super angry about it either.I think calling him out was a good idea because it was in bad taste for that sort of setting. I think of it along the same lines as if you guys had physically went there. It would have been rude as crap to say something like that during such a great time for you guys.But I also feel it could have been worded better. The soft ban was unnecessary for just the 1 comment. It feels like it's been spun into an "I'm outraged" propaganda a bit. Which contributed to the way he responded disproportionally. The 2 of you flat out never getting along doesn't help.I think when we do these call outs we should start them off a bit softer and less "Outraged". We should start them in a way that lets the other person show their side of it and give chance for apologies on all sides. What happens here is that nothing was actually resolved. And while I agree that Red can be overly negative and harsh I feel he would have responded a bit better if the issue was presented as less of an attack.
Rajaa said, July 15, 2014, 06:47:06 pmWhy does that even matter?It implies Rednavi "insulted" as if that was a fact, when it actually had a different context according to Rednavi's explanation, which was pretty clear in my opinion.It looks biased, as to make Rednavi look bad. It could just as easily be worded neturally as "HDBZ derail" like other threads have been in the past.
