EU stated there would be no renegotiations and trying to ask parliament to deny a democratic referendum isn't gonna go well.
When even british families that work outside of britain voted leave and now want to backtrack it because they thought it wouldnt apply to them but only to foreign people theres more than a tiny hint of xenophobic intent.The british results for google AFTER the referendum show a major lack of knowledge on what the fuck they were doing.https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2016/06/24/the-british-are-frantically-googling-what-the-eu-is-hours-after-voting-to-leave-it/A huge ammount of people thought brexit was about cutting off rights for migrant workers, and werent even aware it would affect them too. And the movements towards leaving very much reflected this.the ignorance is just staggering.http://indy100.independent.co.uk/article/the-mail-has-explained-what-brexit-means-and-its-readers-seem-shocked--Z1772TI4aNWhttp://www.newsweek.com/brexit-second-referendum-petition-gains-more-1-million-signatures-474534They are not the only country that has these people, we have them here too. They are the Nationalistic patriotic party.Ofc this has got nothing to do with foreigner hatinghttp://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3659842/No-Polish-vermin-Police-investigating-laminated-cards-reading-leave-EU-home-scum-posted-doors.htmlis all a coincidence
You don't get to use the spectre of imaginary bigotry to stigmatize arguments you don't like. That's sickening.Isn't it convenient that you only mention 'ignorance' in regards to people that disagree with you?
The referendum was literally instigated by UKIP, a far-right party known for their barely-veiled racism and their xenophobia towards immigrants; indeed, their campaign to vote leave played up all of those fears. It's disingenuous to pretend they don't exist, or that they didn't say what they said, regardless of one's feelings about the actual vote.
Snakebyte said, June 26, 2016, 10:44:38 pmYou don't get to use the spectre of imaginary bigotry to stigmatize arguments you don't like. That's sickening.Isn't it convenient that you only mention 'ignorance' in regards to people that disagree with you?Persons that disagree with me? they are literally saying they had homes in other countries and have jobs in other countries and voted leave because they didnt know what it would mean. These are people claiming they want to change their vote over ignorance of reality. Why would i reference the ignorance of the people that voted stay, they are not giving interviews and having articles done about how they didnt know anything about the EU.The second thing most googled by uk people was "what is the EU" AFTER the referendum is done and you are more worried that only those that voted separate are looking dumb? They are all dumb or that wouldnt be the second most researched thing on google.And what do I care what their argument is? The rest of europe will be stronger without them. but they clearly fucked themselves and theres no way you can tell me theres not a tinge of xenophobia in the positions pushed by Ukip.
Jmorphman said, June 26, 2016, 10:48:06 pmThe referendum was literally instigated by UKIP, a far-right party known for their barely-veiled racism and their xenophobia towards immigrants; indeed, their campaign to vote leave played up all of those fears. It's disingenuous to pretend they don't exist, or that they didn't say what they said, regardless of one's feelings about the actual vote.No, it's disingenuous to claim that all opposition to mass immigration is racist and xenophobic.Iced said, June 26, 2016, 10:54:21 pmThe second thing most googled by uk people was "what is the EU" AFTER the referendum is done and you are more worried that only those that voted separate are looking dumb? They are all dumb or that wouldnt be the second most researched thing on google.You are using this fact to call the Leave voters ignorant, when it doesn't indicate anything of the sort. How do you know that the Leave vote wouldn't have been higher if more people were informed?
Snakebyte said, June 26, 2016, 10:55:45 pm No, it's disingenuous to claim that all opposition to mass immigration is racist and xenophobic.PFFT do I have to put disclaimers like in feminist arguments "Note that not all cis scum is scum and not all men rape!" ?Give me a break why are you arguing against something that is never said by anyone.A tinge is a far cry from "ALL LEAVE SUPPORTERS ARE XENOPHOBIC"QuoteIced said, June 26, 2016, 10:54:21 pmThe second thing most googled by uk people was "what is the EU" AFTER the referendum is done and you are more worried that only those that voted separate are looking dumb? They are all dumb or that wouldnt be the second most researched thing on google.You are using this fact to call the Leave voters ignorant, when it doesn't indicate anything of the sort. How do you know that the Leave vote wouldn't have been higher if more people were informed?Lets start arguing hypotheticals, thats a good use of time. How can you be sure if they were all informed properly they wouldnt have invaded the palace and ate the queen? You cant? Egads. I)ts almost as if we can only discuss actions and things that actually happened like the huge ammounts of people expressing regret in their votes over ignorance and not the huge ammounts of people that somehow arent expressing their regret in voting remain. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3658966/Cornwall-votes-decisively-Brexit-seeks-assurances-won-t-lose-60million-year-gets-EU-subsidies.html
with the turnout at 72% all those google searches could've come from the remaining 28% and those that weren't elegible to vote (including younger teens). the bump in google searches is an interesting fact but i don't think it means anything for either side of the vote
Nobody outside of the UK even knew why exactly they wanted to leave and what they expected from it. A month or two ago, Cameron went and asked for new rights from the EU to show that he could be tough and could obtain things from it, but that wasn't enough and it led to the referendum. But no newspaper / news site I've seen around here was able to tell exactly why it happened, beside the whole "we're giving too much money to the EU" like from back with Thatcher, but that's very common, as well as the usual issue with migrant workers making life tough for locals. And Friday morning, the "350M for the NHS" thing happened, and the Farage campaign blew up.But hey, you guys keep saying we can't shrug it off as racism or ignorance and it can only be better outside the EU. What do you think ARE the reasons ? What do you think will get better now ?
Iced said, June 26, 2016, 11:01:08 pmLets start arguing hypotheticals, thats a good use of time. How can you be sure if they were all informed properly they wouldnt have invaded the palace and ate the queen? You cant? Egads. I)ts almost as if we can only discuss actions and things that actually happened like the huge ammounts of people expressing regret in their votes over ignorance and not the huge ammounts of people that somehow arent expressing their regret in voting remain. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3658966/Cornwall-votes-decisively-Brexit-seeks-assurances-won-t-lose-60million-year-gets-EU-subsidies.htmlThat's my point. You're the one arguing hypotheticals--people being ignorant doesn't support either side, and you're trying to claim it supports yours.edit:QuoteWhat do you think ARE the reasons ? What do you think will get better now ? Self-governance seems like a super important concern. The bulk of the Leave arguments I've seen have valued democracy over tyranny, and being willing to take an economic hit to accomplish that.
Our news reported that" UK got spooked that a shitload of people will come immigrating into their country(Since citizens of other EU countries can easily move to other countries,and more and more countries are entering the EU(Guessin they meant our slavic countries)) so they bailed out to keep their cultural indentity"Makes no sense tho,so I dont think thats the reasonCouldnt they just deny people trying to enter their country from doing so and still stay?
Snakebyte said, June 26, 2016, 11:18:07 pmSelf-governance seems like a super important concern. The bulk of the Leave arguments I've seen have valued democracy over tyranny, and being willing to take an economic hit to accomplish that.That is the exact same argument for Texas leaving the USA.
Snakebyte said, June 26, 2016, 11:18:07 pmIced said, June 26, 2016, 11:01:08 pmLets start arguing hypotheticals, thats a good use of time. How can you be sure if they were all informed properly they wouldnt have invaded the palace and ate the queen? You cant? Egads. I)ts almost as if we can only discuss actions and things that actually happened like the huge ammounts of people expressing regret in their votes over ignorance and not the huge ammounts of people that somehow arent expressing their regret in voting remain. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3658966/Cornwall-votes-decisively-Brexit-seeks-assurances-won-t-lose-60million-year-gets-EU-subsidies.htmlThat's my point. You're the one arguing hypotheticals--people being ignorant doesn't support either side, and you're trying to claim it supports yours.you are being nonsensical. Im showing british people are ignorant and voted for something stupid without knowing what it meant. Now that they know they want to change it. How can you claim that this shows that peopel that voted remain now see that they voted wrong?Erroratu said, June 26, 2016, 11:20:34 pmOur news reported that" UK got spooked that a shitload of people will come immigrating into their country(Since citizens of other EU countries can easily move to other countries,and more and more countries are entering the EU(Guessin they meant our slavic countries)) so they bailed out to keep their cultural indentity"Makes no sense tho,so I dont think thats the reasonCouldnt they just deny people trying to enter their country from doing so and still stay?Part of being in the EU is getting benefits from trade economy but also to obey laws that are passed in the common euro zone. Uk has historically been opposed of wanting to do most of those things while still wanting to reap all the rewards of the euro zone.They wouldnt be able to refuse to take refugees from wars because its their European civic duty, and a big part of this was them freaking out over it.QuoteSelf-governance seems like a super important concern. The bulk of the Leave arguments I've seen have valued democracy over tyranny, and being willing to take an economic hit to accomplish that.Democracy over tyranny.And the tyranny is having laws passed that affect the whole eu zone, laws like having to take in refugees. This is the hill this argument decided to die in. Its the same argument of the Patriotic nationalist party for leaving the EU.edit:
Byakko said, June 26, 2016, 11:23:28 pmSnakebyte said, June 26, 2016, 11:18:07 pmSelf-governance seems like a super important concern. The bulk of the Leave arguments I've seen have valued democracy over tyranny, and being willing to take an economic hit to accomplish that.That is the exact same argument for Texas leaving the USA.No, it's not. Texas has democracy. The EU authorities don't work the way the US authorities do.Iced said, June 26, 2016, 11:27:23 pmyou are being nonsensical. Im showing british people are ignorant and voted for something stupid without knowing what it meant. Now that they know they want to change it. How can you claim that this shows that peopel that voted remain now see that they voted wrong?You're not showing anything of the kind. You're showing that british people are ignorant. It doesn't skew your way. It doesn't skew any way. That's my point. You're not accurately representing the facts OR my point.The tyranny is to do with the people proposing laws not being democratically elected accountable representatives, and saying 'someone dumb thinks the way you do!' is not a fucking argument. I really didn't expect this level of dishonesty from you.
I still have no idea what your point is because you try to obscure it repeatedly with claims like "not everyone that supports it is racist" as if somehow thats being argued.QuoteThe tyranny is to do with the people proposing laws not being democratically elected accountable representatives, and saying 'someone dumb thinks the way you do!' is not a fucking argument. I really didn't expect this level of dishonesty from you. Even here you are trying to obscure any argument, the people proposing laws are elected each on theri own country and move on to propose laws as a group made by representatives of every country. Claiming they are not democratically elected representatives is dishonest to begin with.Where do you think they are coming? they just sprout from the ground? You havent made any point except to talk about tyranny and act offended at "level of dishonesty" while skirting everything. Come the fuck on dude.Should I include a disclaimer that because Palin and Trump support it and theres a lot of racism going on following the vote that doesnt mean that everyone that voted was racist again? Just to make sure we have muddled any discussion further?
You really think that european deputies are not elected? Geez I must have voted on some ghosts last timehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_to_the_European_Parliament
QuoteHowever, there are some differences from national legislatures; for example, neither the Parliament nor the Council have the power of legislative initiative (except for the fact that the Council has the power in some intergovernmental matters). In Community matters, this is a power uniquely reserved for the European Commission (the executive). Therefore, while Parliament can amend and reject legislation, to make a proposal for legislation, it needs the Commission to draft a bill before anything can become law.MEPs can't propose laws, dipshit.edit: From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Parliament, not from the one you linked.
They vote on them, you have a democratically elected group that votes on your laws which is exactly what you were complaining about, but instead of complaining that the commite making the laws wasnt elected you just went on and on about how it was tyranny. If you want to make a point make a point, dont just shout nonsense.Am I supposed to magically know what exactly you are mad about? You still havent made a point. This STILL isnt what a tyranny is.edit: http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/eu-referendum-racism_uk_576fe161e4b08d2c56396075
Snakebyte said, June 27, 2016, 12:08:19 amYou're showing that british people are ignorant. It doesn't skew your way. It doesn't skew any way.They're ignorant, and after they realized that they misunderstood something, They want a new vote. This can only come from the people who voted to leave, and they now want to change it after learning what it all meant. It can't possibly come from the people who voted to remain and now want to change their vote to "leave", because "leave" already won.QuoteNo, it's not. Texas has democracy. The EU authorities don't work the way the US authorities do.It's a matter of point of view. As far as those who want Texas to leave is concerned, the US is not democratic because they think the US government is not doing what they want and doesn't let them do what they want. The UK wants to leave because the EU doesn't let them do what they want. It IS the same argument.You say the EU isn't democratic because it's not voted by the people, but it's made by the governments that was elected by the people. It's just that they can't agree on stuff and they make crap and they box themselves in, and then the commission tries to enforce that and it causes shit. It only feels like the people didn't vote for that because the people they each voted for can't agree with each other.Calling the EU tyrannic is straight up bullshit.
