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Re: KOF Memorial Lvl 2

 April 27, 2011, 12:46:35 am View in topic context
 Posted by Dark Symphony  in KOF Memorial Lvl 2 (Started by Dark Symphony April 26, 2011, 05:28:30 pm
 Board: M.U.G.E.N Discussion
FeLo_Llop said, April 26, 2011, 10:25:16 pm
^
LOL.

See, I don't like Zelgadis' "work" but he AT LEAST is giving the characters a common system. That takes time, and in case you don't know, MUGEN IS A HOBBY, NOT REAL LIFE, NOT YOUR WORK. Everyone else here who makes their things at mugen is because they want, not because they're forced to.

If Zelgadis makes some videos; what else? It's a way to show leechers and common people that his project is not dead, that there are things on the works and so, it's a way to catch people's attention.

Did you know...that KoF-Z is even elder? and it's unfinished too.

Again, if you think you can do better, just e-mail him and CONTRIBUTE to his project ;)


Yeah, I don't fall for that.

Attention mongering is attention mongering. It's really obvious when a "developer" is trying to keep people hooked to them. Not to their project.  It gets to a point where the point of demo vids and trailers is to get attention and keep people from turning their attention elsewhere than it is to actually show off what you are doing/have done.

Honestly... Think about it... How many times have you seen a developer say "X character is done. Video up tomorrow." It's like "uh... just release the character."

I think, currently, Zelgadis has announced another trailer that will reveal the release date. Why not... Just announce the release date, since that's what people are interested in.

When your project isn't primarily in lockstep with people's interest, simply don't talk about it publicly. I know MUGEN is hard work and people put in a lot of uncompensated effort, but that doesn't give them a pass to essentially try to milk undue attention by spamming vids and demos. As you've said, these aren't real games. They're just projects. Just release the crap.

It's almost as bad as "private" works.
    

Re: KOF Memorial Lvl 2

 April 26, 2011, 06:20:11 pm View in topic context
 Posted by Dark Symphony  in KOF Memorial Lvl 2 (Started by Dark Symphony April 26, 2011, 05:28:30 pm
 Board: M.U.G.E.N Discussion
FeLo_Llop said, April 26, 2011, 05:47:59 pm
Dark Symphony said, April 26, 2011, 05:37:05 pm
Why in the world would there be a few month gap between a demo and a release, I wonder? It's not even out yet.

It's called work. Try to do a game by yourself and then tell me ;)!


Seriously, go to MugenImperioLatino(LOL) and aside the spread of leechers and HOYGANZ you'll somehow find the KOFM


Seems to me like if your game needs work, you should work on it and not release a bunch of trailers and video demos. 20+ trailers and demos seems excessive... Like it's more about attention than the actual project. Didn't this game get started in 2007?
    

Re: KOF Memorial Lvl 2

 April 26, 2011, 05:46:24 pm View in topic context
 Posted by Dark Symphony  in KOF Memorial Lvl 2 (Started by Dark Symphony April 26, 2011, 05:28:30 pm
 Board: M.U.G.E.N Discussion
Aha. That's even weirder.

I wonder what the point is of a demo video for a MUGEN game. Especially if it's months out from the actual release. Do people think these are retail games or something? Why not just... release the game if it's ready to be shown?

Sorry.. The project just baffles me.
    

Re: KOF Memorial Lvl 2

 April 26, 2011, 05:37:05 pm View in topic context
 Posted by Dark Symphony  in KOF Memorial Lvl 2 (Started by Dark Symphony April 26, 2011, 05:28:30 pm
 Board: M.U.G.E.N Discussion
Why in the world would there be a few month gap between a demo and a release, I wonder? It's not even out yet.
    

KOF Memorial Lvl 2

 April 26, 2011, 05:28:30 pm View in topic context
 Posted by Dark Symphony  in KOF Memorial Lvl 2 (Started by Dark Symphony April 26, 2011, 05:28:30 pm
 Board: M.U.G.E.N Discussion
Anyone ever hear of this "project?"
    

Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition

 November 09, 2009, 07:01:42 pm View in topic context
 Posted by Dark Symphony  in King of Fighters E blog (Started by swipergod November 14, 2007, 02:53:22 am
 Board: King of Fighters E
"KOFXII was planning to have Raiden on Kim's team along with Hwa (before SNK dropped the ball). "


Where did you hear about this?

(And, personally, I don't think SNK dropped the ball with XII's roster).
    

Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition

 June 25, 2009, 10:41:26 pm View in topic context
 Posted by Dark Symphony  in King of Fighters E blog (Started by swipergod November 14, 2007, 02:53:22 am
 Board: King of Fighters E
Dark Symphony said, June 25, 2009, 04:44:12 am
swipergod said, June 22, 2009, 06:02:40 am
I agree that nerfing is relative, but to your point about revamping making it difficult to compare, I'd point this out.  Everyone knows Gouki from Capcom.  If SNK had ported him over to KOF, gave him crazy priority, but removed some of his trademark moves like the Raging demon, regardless of the fact that he'd be in a new environment, I still think people would feel he was nerfed.  I can't see someone like Mature thriving with such a limited arsenal.  Sure the system is new, but I think that the more moves you have at your disposal, the more varied your fight can be and the more jams you can fight your way out of.  That's kinda the basis behind KOFE's balance.  Removing as many limitations as possible.  I think SNK would have given some characters more moves if they'd had more time, which is why this'll probably be like KOF '03 in terms of a starting point, but the end result means that characters aren't what they could've been and thus, are nerfed.

I will be focusing on my Raiden project, which means that Mature and Vice will probably have to wait until next month to get done.  Kinda excited about bringing Raiden to KOF.  So hopefully that'll translate into a quicker completion time for his resizing and programming.  :)

I totally agree that people would think an Akuma without the Raging Demon = nerfed Akuma.

However, them thinking that just means they're thinking that and they're wrong. People really have to stop looking at number of moves to mean anything. If a character has 20 TERRIBLE moves and crappy normals etc., the character is terrible. With that established ,we can see that it's not about the "number of moves."

SF's Guile has survived, really, on two special moves and really stumps people as to what he possibly could be given besides those moves that wouldn't be useless filler since those two moves pretty much cover all the bases (no pun intended). K9999 may not have been the best in the games he appeared in, but he wasn't a slouch and didn't need more than 2 then 3 special moves to hand out packages of grade A grief. In fact, he relied mostly on command moves to do so.

Having a lot of moves that provide options over a number of situations DOES make a character better, but it's the effectiveness of those moves that determines that, not the number. Because there's nothing that says one move can't do many things. Dragon punch moves in many cases (particularly with the light versions) serve as both a good anti air, good combo filler, a good defensive move to counter rush AND good wake-up.

You COULD spread that over 4 moves but the character wouldn't be any more effective. In fact, they'd be LESS effective because that's 3 extra things the brain has to register.

I guess my point is that it's not about the moves or number of moves but how effective what the character has is. There is absolutely nothing that won't allow Mature from dominating with two, even one move.

I think, in the community of MUGEN, the common consensus is that more moves = better. I am just trying to show that there's a disconnect between # of moves and effectiveness and that a characters ability isn't proportional to the number of moves they have. A good right amount of Mugen characters (not speaking of present company) are directionless simply because they just... have things. There's no thought into purpose.

And lastly, more moves = harder to balance. So you have to find the right balance between effectiveness and interest. A character still has to be interesting.

I think that the quicker a person realizes that moves can be added to a character for "fun factor" the better.


Indeed, less moves can very well take away from a character as far as how interesting that character is. But then again, you think of the staple Guile and how he really doesn't need much else.

Giving Rugal only the Genocide Cutter isn't a nerf. Giving him no way to deal with projectilers would be the nerf. Because we could easily make the Gen Cutter be invincible to and reflect projectiles.

Or he could very well lose all moves save for he G Cutter but be put in a game where there are no projectiles.

I guess that's the case with XII... It's new with a whole new build and thus no previous iterations of the characters really mean anything because you can't have XI Kyo in XII. XII could be put together in such a fashion that a character with two moves could dominate better than a character in XI who has 7.

A character's effectiveness is simply relative to his competition. I mean, XII Duo Lon, on paper, basically lost his least useful move and had it replaced with a far more practical version. But the changes to the properties of his existing moves didn't allow him to run rampant over the cast like he could in 03.

Malin had the same deal. Even though her shock stix were made better, not being able to have two Yo Yos and losing that ridiculous jump nerfed her ability.

I guess my point is that it absolutely has nothing to do with number of moves. As such, no one was really nerfed in XII due to their movesets because there is no other versions of those characters in their current forms and capability is relative to competition.





Back on topic.... Do you still plan to use Hotaru? That was the character I was most interested in seeing.
    

Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition

 June 25, 2009, 04:44:12 am View in topic context
 Posted by Dark Symphony  in King of Fighters E blog (Started by swipergod November 14, 2007, 02:53:22 am
 Board: King of Fighters E
swipergod said, June 22, 2009, 06:02:40 am
I agree that nerfing is relative, but to your point about revamping making it difficult to compare, I'd point this out.  Everyone knows Gouki from Capcom.  If SNK had ported him over to KOF, gave him crazy priority, but removed some of his trademark moves like the Raging demon, regardless of the fact that he'd be in a new environment, I still think people would feel he was nerfed.  I can't see someone like Mature thriving with such a limited arsenal.  Sure the system is new, but I think that the more moves you have at your disposal, the more varied your fight can be and the more jams you can fight your way out of.  That's kinda the basis behind KOFE's balance.  Removing as many limitations as possible.  I think SNK would have given some characters more moves if they'd had more time, which is why this'll probably be like KOF '03 in terms of a starting point, but the end result means that characters aren't what they could've been and thus, are nerfed.

I will be focusing on my Raiden project, which means that Mature and Vice will probably have to wait until next month to get done.  Kinda excited about bringing Raiden to KOF.  So hopefully that'll translate into a quicker completion time for his resizing and programming.  :)

I totally agree that people would think an Akuma without the Raging Demon = nerfed Akuma.

However, them thinking that just means they're thinking that and they're wrong. People really have to stop looking at number of moves to mean anything. If a character has 20 TERRIBLE moves and crappy normals etc., the character is terrible. With that established ,we can see that it's not about the "number of moves."

SF's Guile has survived, really, on two special moves and really stumps people as to what he possibly could be given besides those moves that wouldn't be useless filler since those two moves pretty much cover all the bases (no pun intended). K9999 may not have been the best in the games he appeared in, but he wasn't a slouch and didn't need more than 2 then 3 special moves to hand out packages of grade A grief. In fact, he relied mostly on command moves to do so.

Having a lot of moves that provide options over a number of situations DOES make a character better, but it's the effectiveness of those moves that determines that, not the number. Because there's nothing that says one move can't do many things. Dragon punch moves in many cases (particularly with the light versions) serve as both a good anti air, good combo filler, a good defensive move to counter rush AND good wake-up.

You COULD spread that over 4 moves but the character wouldn't be any more effective. In fact, they'd be LESS effective because that's 3 extra things the brain has to register.

I guess my point is that it's not about the moves or number of moves but how effective what the character has is. There is absolutely nothing that won't allow Mature from dominating with two, even one move.

I think, in the community of MUGEN, the common consensus is that more moves = better. I am just trying to show that there's a disconnect between # of moves and effectiveness and that a characters ability isn't proportional to the number of moves they have. A good right amount of Mugen characters (not speaking of present company) are directionless simply because they just... have things. There's no thought into purpose.

And lastly, more moves = harder to balance. So you have to find the right balance between effectiveness and interest. A character still has to be interesting.

I think that the quicker a person realizes that moves can be added to a character for "fun factor" the better.
    

Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition

 June 21, 2009, 01:03:01 pm View in topic context
 Posted by Dark Symphony  in King of Fighters E blog (Started by swipergod November 14, 2007, 02:53:22 am
 Board: King of Fighters E
swipergod said, June 15, 2009, 02:19:37 am
My understanding of nerfing was removing something to lessen the effectiveness or desirability of a character (taken straight from wikipedia lol).  Toning them down as it were.  Removing moves, to my understanding, is nerfing as the more moves a character has, the more effective they can be.  This isn't to say that that character isn't still going to be a bitch to fight against with less moves or that they won't be effective in general, just that they'll be less effective then they could have been.  So in KOF XII, SNK nerfed a lot of characters in comparison to other KOFs.  Hopefully for balancing issues, or perhaps to return to the basics.  Then again, they just may have run out of time to make more moves for everyone.   :sugoi:

We both know this is harmless nitpicking so I'll add some more...

Removing a move isn't a nerf. There are actually situations where removing a move can be beneficial (see: Overlapping commands. Man, it would ahve been cool if Nina didn't have that taunt in DBD that kept interrupting my movements).

Also, if a character loses moves but gains new ones in return that make the character better, even if they have a lesser number of moves, it's not a nerf.

Nerfing is also relative. No character in KOFXII is nerfed because KOFXII is the first game using those iterations of those characters. You can't compare 95 or XI Kyo to XII Kyo because XII Kyo is dealing with a completely different set up than those characters.

What if we, say, remove all of Joe's special moves but make his jab unblockable and instant kill? Is he still nerfed because he lost all of those moves?

Nerfing is relative and considers the game as a whole. Nerfing has nothing to do with "desirability" as that is an abstract/objective concept that oft times isn't based on in-game prowess.

Nerfing is simply taking a character, comparatively speaking, and making them worse compared to comparable standards previously set. Because XII is a revamp, we can't really compare the characters to their other selves. And top match play hardly ever uses all moves anyway... Unles they have very few (K9999).

My little input...
    

Re: Mugen: King of Fighters Edition

 June 14, 2009, 07:26:34 pm View in topic context
 Posted by Dark Symphony  in King of Fighters E blog (Started by swipergod November 14, 2007, 02:53:22 am
 Board: King of Fighters E
TO be fair, you can't really say someone is nerfed until you've seen how they perform in game compared to other characters. Taking away moves =/= nerfing as Foxy could have dominated KOF 2001 with, like, 4 moves. And that includes normal attacks.
    

Re: Effing Hypesters...

 May 09, 2009, 05:49:12 am View in topic context
 Posted by Dark Symphony  in Effing Hypesters... (Started by Dark Symphony April 24, 2009, 05:08:48 am
 Board: M.U.G.E.N Discussion
Yeah. The first post doesn't make much sense if you, you know... don't read it/comprehend it.

Problem #1.... People seem to want to have whoever inspired this rant to be revealed.

This rant was not inspired by any one individual.

Problem #2.... People seem to think that if I post it here, it means I am complaining about people here. In case it's new news, the MUGEN community expands beyond this particular forum.

I don't want to kill any of my heat (people are more passionate when they're riled), but I haven't ran across any extreme examples of the crap I talked about here on this board. Yeah, a little flouting here and there and needless hype with a dash of losing focus, but nothing too bad.

I have this ability to address the community as a whole.

NOW, back to business... I really wish people would stop bringing up "unfinished characters" when we talk about private. No one has a problem with someone waiting until something is done. It's like people looking over your shoulder while you're trying to draw a picture and you don't want them to see/experience the unfinished build.

TOTALLY understandable.

However... when you have a "releases" section and you have characters that are posted in there iwth dead links and the word "Private" stamped on them, well... Bad form. And if it's an F U to ungrateful people, then that means I'm just calling it as I see it. I don't know why people would expect someone to be happy about a middle finger to the face.

There is a difference between a WIP and a Private character. It should be clear by now (by a long time ago) what types of private characters I meant. It's not hard.
    

Re: Effing Hypesters...

 April 25, 2009, 11:54:37 pm View in topic context
 Posted by Dark Symphony  in Effing Hypesters... (Started by Dark Symphony April 24, 2009, 05:08:48 am
 Board: M.U.G.E.N Discussion
Shion said, April 25, 2009, 10:45:24 pm
2 things.  You obviously don't know who [E] is or you wouldn't even imply those things, and you obviously lack the ability to detect sarcasm.  Also, about the word private.  You Keep using that word, and I don't think it means what you think it means.

An excerpt for the request section rules:

Quote
Private: You can't request these. It's impossible. See for you to request it you have to know about it. Therefore the character has been announced in some way shape or form. At this point the character is public. It may go on to become unreleased or never completed but it can never be truly private. If you wish to gain access to the sort of thing 99% of the community will never hear about you have to be an extremely trustworthy person. You also have to be useful. Wanting for the sake of wanting will not get you anything truly classed as "Private"
Liklihood of success: 1%


I know who [E] is. [E] is one of the ones this post is NOT directed at. Not because "ooh! It's [E], I'm scared" but because [E] makes good crap and does worthwhile contributions. I want to see a centralization of all the [E]'s out there to sort of force the goobers to the outer circle so I can see some real good come of this program.


I don't know how someone could "know" about something private. If someone wants something that's private, then Johnny Private failed to actually keep his criznap private. In fact, that very disclaimer about "private" works is almost a contradiction as there should NEVER, EVER be an issue with someone wanting a private work since no one should know about it.


While that definition is cute, it's not hard and fast. You see, there are tons of MUGEN websites you can go to that have authors who WILL have characters in the DL section marked as Private or the less but still annoying "removed."

As in "you can't DL this one."

That's not very effing private. So that definition only applies to SOME of the private characters out there, or more precisely, none of them.

Obviously, a Character that is being paraded around in pictures and Video's isn't private.
    

Re: Effing Hypesters...

 April 25, 2009, 11:48:03 pm View in topic context
 Posted by Dark Symphony  in Effing Hypesters... (Started by Dark Symphony April 24, 2009, 05:08:48 am
 Board: M.U.G.E.N Discussion
Rajaa said, April 25, 2009, 11:51:18 am
Whoops, turns out that I don't care, imagine that, no way?!


Interesting. Because you would have had to make at least 60 deliberate movements in order to let us know that (for the second time). Quite the undertaking for someone who doesn't care...





And yes. This isn't new. I'm sure people have been complaining about this for a while. However, every complaint I have seen until now (read; mine) has been overrun and scared off by a horde of people with no real back up counter argument (hahaha... the "show us your boobs" argument) ganging up on the guy until he flies off and the goofs run around claiming victory.

It's old news to people who've been around, new news to people who haven't, and still something prevalent in this community today. A community that continues to move and alter. It's not like a Madden game or something. "Well, it's out, so complaining won't change anything." As long as people continue to be goobers, people should continue to let them know.

I, for one, have been wanting to say something for a while. The only people who should be getting mad are the ones... who... do the stuff I'm talking about.
    

Re: Effing Hypesters...

 April 25, 2009, 08:06:23 am View in topic context
 Posted by Dark Symphony  in Effing Hypesters... (Started by Dark Symphony April 24, 2009, 05:08:48 am
 Board: M.U.G.E.N Discussion
    

Re: Effing Hypesters...

 April 25, 2009, 08:05:29 am View in topic context
 Posted by Dark Symphony  in Effing Hypesters... (Started by Dark Symphony April 24, 2009, 05:08:48 am
 Board: M.U.G.E.N Discussion
shamrock said, April 25, 2009, 04:36:43 am
Good job. You have totally shown exactly why people have private releases.

Guy makes something for others to enjoy. Others start bitching at him about release times and such. Then he says fuck it I'm not releasing anything for these ungrateful fucks.

Then others make threads bitching about said creators private releases.

Who are you talking about anyway.

I mean someone got to you. Pissed you off, who was it. I mean attacking all users freedoms ins't going to make anyone happy on a forum of creators, so just spill who you are pissed at and leave the rest alone.

You have defended yourself by saying I'm not talking about this or that.

Well who the fuck are you talking about?

Yeah... THAT'S why people have private releases. Ungrateful people. Sure, if you want. Keep in mind I'm not complaining about anything that should upset anyone and make them "go private" as I was originally talking about people who try to milk hype and now people who do "private" releases. Neither of those sound "ungrateful" so at least try to stay in context.

I love the ho-hum pseudo-liberalist lingo with all the colorful "attacking freedoms" diatribe and whatnot, but it's kind of lost here. No ones "freedoms" are being attacked. Things people DO are being brought into question and all that's being done is things are being outed for what they are.

There's no real excuse for a having a "private" release. That's almost a blatant contradiction. If you want something to be private, why display it publicly? A question no one seems to know the answer to. THAT'S what I'm talking about. If you don't want things requested, why post videos of it? HOw does one have time to release a years worth of screenshots and videos for characters and not finish the character? That's not bad form?

It must be. Because when it's brought up, people get defensive. You merely have to just SAY what it is they're doing and they go into counter-mode, which wouldn't happen if they weren't aware that they were being goofy.

Who am I mad at? no one in particular. I'm enlightened enough to make just a general stand on something. I've been lurking around the MUGEN community since March of 2001. I've seen it all.

I've seen all sorts of potential and all sorts of possibilities stifled by the counter-productive actions of people, people who are more concerned with hyping themselves up or being popular via shallow methods than just making good crap. People who want so bad to be "elite" or "Above" people that they conjure up some pretty bad excuses to support those desires.

You see, people want to talk about privacy and don't want guff for milking release hype and all that could be avoided if people didn't... milk release hype or publicly post supposedly private work.
    

Re: Effing Hypesters...

 April 25, 2009, 07:53:44 am View in topic context
 Posted by Dark Symphony  in Effing Hypesters... (Started by Dark Symphony April 24, 2009, 05:08:48 am
 Board: M.U.G.E.N Discussion
Rajaa said, April 25, 2009, 06:24:10 am
Dark Symphony said, April 25, 2009, 04:18:09 am
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

Haven't you heard? No wall of text arguments out of me. :)

You pretty much fail at logic. From my experience, there's no sense in trying to change that over the internet.


Is this something I should have heard of? I don't need a Wall Of Text out of you. Your inability to refute is admission enough for me that I routed the crap out of you. Newsflash... "you fail at logic" doesn't say anything and lacks substance. I am noticing a pattern with you.
    

Re: Effing Hypesters...

 April 25, 2009, 04:23:06 am View in topic context
 Posted by Dark Symphony  in Effing Hypesters... (Started by Dark Symphony April 24, 2009, 05:08:48 am
 Board: M.U.G.E.N Discussion
shamrock said, April 24, 2009, 06:54:15 am
You just evil Hoshi,

How dare you do things the way you want to do them. Don't you care about the rest of us? What about my feelings? I formally request that you do your w.i.p.s releases, screenshots. and videos the way I want or..............

Or................

I'll make a thread about it?  ???


You see, if people insist on doing things publicly, they should be aware that the public can and will develop opinions of their actions.

It's up to each individual person to judge whether or not criticism against them is worth it to them to change.

Just because it's your work doesn't mean I can't call it like I see it. I can tell hypesters who have lost sight from developers who haven't.
    

Re: Effing Hypesters...

 April 25, 2009, 04:18:09 am View in topic context
 Posted by Dark Symphony  in Effing Hypesters... (Started by Dark Symphony April 24, 2009, 05:08:48 am
 Board: M.U.G.E.N Discussion
I was waiting for this type of response... One that clearly reeks of someone who didn't/can't read or just decided to conjur up stuff so they'd have something to lash against because they didn't like the subject matter but had no way to refute it directly...


Rajaa said, April 24, 2009, 06:35:04 am
Nobody is worse, it's you that is worse.

Useless comment that doesn't say anything. Void of substance.


Rajaa said, April 24, 2009, 06:35:04 am
Stop being skeptical, no one is against you or knows who you are to even have anything against you.

Whether or not people know who I am is immaterial. This isn't about people being "against me." I don't even know where this tangent came from... Again... Void of any real substance.


Rajaa said, April 24, 2009, 06:35:04 am
You're selfish, oblivious to anything outside of your mindset,

Yeah, save the colorful wording and dramatics for livejournal. This is some intense stuff you're deriving from... oh wait, that's right... absolutely nothing.

Rajaa said, April 24, 2009, 06:35:04 am
and you need to realize that people have their ways and reasons for doing the things they do.

That's not an excuse. That's never an excuse. There's no immunity from someone commenting on or judging your PUBLIC actions just because you have a "reason." The "reason" is just one more thing to be challenged.

Rajaa said, April 24, 2009, 06:35:04 am
People don't have to release if their creation is private, hence the word private. It's like saying:

"hey let me see your boobs, wtf is wrong with you? why are you keeping your boobs private for?"


Yeah, sure buddy. Same @$$ show, there. Oh wait! It's not at all!

Someone who wants to keep something, anything, private would do well to:

1: Not talk about it.
2: Not brag about it.
3: Not show screenshots of it.
4: Not post videos of it.
5: Not list it among downloadable things while replacing the link with the word "download" with no link and the word "Private."

See, I can easily keep things private and you'll never know a thing about them. Yet some developers seem to consistently fail at keeping their private works ACTUALLY PRIVATE. As in, to post, publicly, that something no one was even asking about.

Tell me... how is that Private?

It's not. And I figure I'll be one of the first to intelligently challenge the practice and call it, among other ridiculous things a portion of this community accepts, what it is.

If you want to create a character and want people to have an interest in it but want to keep it "private" so you can feel special when people ask you for it, so you can feel "cool" as you make exasperated blogs and forum posts telling people to quit asking you for the "private" creation that you decided to make public on a public backdrop traditionally used to sharing public things, so you can snap at youtube comments asking for your "private" character that you just posted a "public" video of because people don't care that you put "unrequestable" in your description, by all means.

But you're not tricking anyone.

Your response just shows how ridiculous the fact that this is considered an acceptable practice is. (Asking for a "private" release that's displayed on a publicly accessible backdrop is like asking someone to show their boobs? What the heck? You think people would take a chicks request to stop asking about her boobs seriously if she was talking about them all the time, showing screenshots and videos of them and displaying them alongside other readily available things such as what she's reading and her favorite singer? Ha.... Ridiculous).


    

Re: Effing Hypesters...

 April 24, 2009, 06:12:01 am View in topic context
 Posted by Dark Symphony  in Effing Hypesters... (Started by Dark Symphony April 24, 2009, 05:08:48 am
 Board: M.U.G.E.N Discussion
shamrock said, April 24, 2009, 05:39:39 am
Ok. So you are upset because people don't finish projects.

Hey People got lives.

New creators learn more and start over on projects. Some bite off more than they can chew. Others loose interest. I know I've been guilty of all three.

It's the nature of the beast.

Um... did you read the post?

Particularly the part where I said

"Now, I don't have a problem with releases taking forever. Life is life. "

That's me acknowledging almost EXACTLY what you posted in the post I posted before you posted.

I don't have a problem with releases taking forever.

What's being discussed is people milking interest. Delaying releases to generate hype, being unwilling to release betas that would allow them to get some feedback early on (which should be the ultimate refuge for people whose projects are taking longer than expected), taking all this time to constantly show off screenshots when it's MUGEN... a screenshot doesn't really do jack. Once you've seen what the character looks like (if it's new) you're gold. If it's a converted character, then who cares?

And if you have video of a fully functional character, why is it still "unreleased"?

And what the F is up with this "private" nonsense?

I don't know which is worse... hypesters, privateers or those people who make those MUGEN videos with those dreadfully long 30+ second video packages.... Watch this...

Kyo by DS vs Magneto by DS.
Stage: KOF98 China
BGM: Rescue Battle (Samurai Warriors 2).

See that? Took 5 seconds. Didn't need a video package with a bunch of sprites clashing with the text to tell you that.
    

Effing Hypesters...

 April 24, 2009, 05:08:48 am View in topic context
 Posted by Dark Symphony  in Effing Hypesters... (Started by Dark Symphony April 24, 2009, 05:08:48 am
 Board: M.U.G.E.N Discussion
You know.. a lot of MUGEN developers work hard. I am actually very impressed that the community took what little bit it had and turned it into what it is now. It's pretty cool.

But man... there are certain elements of the community that are very frustrating. Which stifles the community and I think hurts it a lot in the end. We all know this...

But I am going to tangent about one element in particular that I can't stand.

Effing hypesters.

You know who I'm talking about.... We've all seen it happen.


It starts innocently enough. A new developer comes onto the scene and they have some pretty solid but intriguing ideas. At this point, I usually do all I can to help. Usually through the realm of feedback.

Problem is, some people can't handle the ever desired "interest." These developers lose sight of what is good (developing good things and making dope@$$ contributions) and begin to focus more on generating hype for themselves.

Now, I have nothing against wanting or giving props. I just think the art of the hypester is effing dumb and I see it SOOO much. It's a constant stain on the MUGEN community because a lot of people come off feeling like it's a community of self-serving pricks. From the non-stop hypesters, to the people who generate interest and then "duck out" to punish... who knows who, to the people who have 'private" releases (what the F is up with that? If it's private, why not keep it that way?)

Now, I don't have a problem with releases taking forever. Life is life. You don't get paid (for the most part) for MUGEN. But if you have time to post screenshot after screenshot after screenshot for months (sometimes even years) on end, why not just ... release?

If you have time to constantly release videos, why not do something actually COOL and release the characters?

Is it really just the forum posts and youtube comments we're after?

People are free to do what they want, but if you want to stick your @$$ in the pond to get people to notice you and then when they do, you just cut one, yeah... I get a little irked.

Yeah, I think it's kind of rude to milk peoples interests just to make yourself feel important. Just release the crap or don't. We don't need instruction manuals (newsflash.. those usually come WITH the game) and 200 screenshots (I'm not even sure what is with the whole "screenshot" thing since we're just looking, usually, at a bunch of sprites we've seen in various games for years) and videos of arcade mode run throughs (what exactly does a viewer get out of that? If they're ready to attack the game, why aren't they released?)

Do I plan to be popular for this post? No. but someone had to say it. I have seen enough people beat around the bush.
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