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AI Discussion (Read 21009 times)

Started by ink, January 20, 2017, 04:15:42 am
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Re: AI Discussion
#21  February 05, 2017, 11:47:13 pm
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Re: AI Discussion
#22  February 06, 2017, 12:08:18 am
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I remember these tests were performed in winmugen, and resulted in what you said above, because there was no real AI detection. However, have the same tests been performed on 1.0 or 1.1? I am wondering if the addition of the new AILevel trigger could change or not the tests' output
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Re: AI Discussion
#23  February 06, 2017, 04:04:51 pm
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Well from what I saw jz was right to tell you to check out what I did with neutrality. It was once larger than what it is now and can support pretty much any playstyle of AI. As for how it adapts? That's what was gutted a bit because it was becoming to um..how do I put this. I was starting to get concerned with the power I was giving it so I stopped. By that I mean with a helper based brain like system which neutrality is, the sky can quite literally be the limit if you want to put the time in. I spoke a bit on it in my wip thread a couple years ago when I was still forming it.  I spend weeks on AI now because I fine tune it for performance and consistency. For the most part neutrality controls things like:

-spacing
-blockstrings
-tick grabs
-projectile oki and spacing
-air dashing (see anime chars)
-for tristan it controlled how he reacted to the opponent to figure out the best dodge technique
-walking in and out of opponents max range(usually after getting hit once so it keeps updating) - was removed for being too effective and not fun to deal with
-learning what moves are overheads/lows so it can block appropriately next time or just reversal on reaction.
-limiting actions on self wake up so that it knows to just block or use dp or grab if in range until a certain amount of time has passed(configurable)

All of this can be configured in the brain. i have open source tmnt chars to let people use it themselves. I left all my snes chars opensource(like that matters rofl). Now there is a second part to it and that is the combo routing system. This is what you see primarily in any of my combo intensive chars ala frank/anime stuff/gundam epyon. That part is just for consistent attacking. It can be configured to reset which leads to another AI var for checking AI resets that neutrality also uses. You can set up blockstrings with this same system. They are two separate parts because the combo system is completely optional.
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Last Edit: February 06, 2017, 04:10:43 pm by Kamekaze

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Re: AI Discussion
#24  March 21, 2017, 09:32:52 pm
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Decided to update this post today.

I came across something that really surprised me today. I have been working on AI for a simplified Megaman ,no supers and only a slide and uppercut as specials, everything else is just basic punch and kicks (that includes his projectile hard punch).

I have been messing with with making my own jump, walk, crouch, run AI system to replace MUGEN's default AI. So I turned off some of MUGEN's default AI just to experiment and found that my AI preformed much better when walk, jump and crouch were completely disabled! Weird right? I still need to test this on other characters to see if it has the same results but 32 out of 40 rounds were won with disabled Megaman vs regular Megaman. Note: he does have both a slide and project tile to help when he can't reach the enemy.

I suppose this just means that for some characters its safer to use mainly standing attacks. Where jumping around can make them more vulnerable to attacks. or some depend more on stand attacks than air ones...

I'll test this more later but if anyone wanted to mess with it here is the code I used.
Code:
[State -2, Assert] ;nowalk
type = AssertSpecial
trigger1 = ailevel
flag = nowalk
ignorehitpause = 1

[State -2, no] ;nojump ,  nocrouch
type = changestate
triggerall = ailevel
trigger1 = stateno = 40
trigger2 = stateno = 10
value = 0
ignorehitpause = 1


So far I have put together a few mini systems to help with AI but nothing quite like Kamekaze's Neutrality System. I'm just trying to get a working example of them in my Megaman to work out any problems before posting them.

Most of them help the character decide what type of player they are facing or their playstyle rather. Calculating the average distance they like to attack from; If they combo often; how quickly the AI was defeated in the last round. I'm working to make the character decide if it wants to be a defensive or offensive player, I think that could seem very human and fun to play against.

I have been thinking about adding a cheerleader-ish helper to give the human player a little more insight on what the enemy AI might be thinking. One that can say things like "Keep your distance!" or "Get closer to them!". I always like when you get the feeling the AI is really thinking in other games outside of fighters.


Last Edit: March 21, 2017, 10:03:37 pm by ink
Re: AI Discussion
#25  April 18, 2017, 03:42:25 pm
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Well yeah, default tends to jump and do really stupid things natively. I disabled jumping unless specific conditions were met with neutrality and I have a var controlling which direction to walk etc etc. When you limit the amount of options an AI has it tends to make better ones more often.
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Re: AI Discussion
#26  April 18, 2017, 04:46:32 pm
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Re: AI Discussion
New #27  June 08, 2017, 09:44:07 pm
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Still working towards learning/developing good AI. As I get further into it, trying to figure out the reasoning behind my choices while playing has gotten tougher. I have realized I'm really not that great at fighting games, which has proven to be a big problem when making AI so I have been trying to study strategies that people have while playing. A lot of these were all new to me so I'm posting them here to help anyone looking for ideas.
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Glossary_of_fighting_games

Because I'm convinced it makes most since to disable MUGEN's default walk, crouch and jump during AI, coming up with reasoning for those has been a slow process.  Without studying that link, videos and a few other articles I wouldn't have been able to come up with reasoning for crouch,jump,walk or run as I normally just do those at random with little or no strategy. Though some random stuff being thrown into AI is obviously going to feel more real to playing a human.

I'm currently working on walk reasoning. Now I have the AI walk up to a enemy or walk to the back wall (if the enemy is laying down for both) depending on if the AI is playing offensively or defensively. What is your reasoning for using walk, do you take risks just to walk? Actual details of a strategy would be very helpful!
-edit-
http://mugenguild.com/forum/topics/what-s-your-strategies-when-playing-181850.0.html



Last Edit: May 15, 2018, 02:28:30 am by ink