The Mugen Fighters Guild - Can mugen AIs pass the Turing test?

Speedy9199

Can mugen AIs pass the Turing test?

#1 December 10, 2014, 10:56:57 pm

Make her whiter! Make her whiter!

There is something in computer science from a man named Alan Turing stating that if you can trick a human into thinking an AI is human, the AI is considered good and it passes this test.

wiki article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turing_test

I've worked long and hard to try and get my characters' AI to be as human as possible so I did an experiment similar to the Turing test with a bit of a "twist". I showed my friends in the computer science department of my college mugen and put mugen in watch mode. Then I selected two of my characters and I pretended to play and control player 1 and did not press ctrl + 1. So as the rounds were happening I was pressing buttons on my computer to make it look convincing that I was playing. When round 3 started and during the fight I took my hands off the keyboard and showed that it was really an AI only match. Then I asked if they thought I was really playing, they said yes and I was able to trick everyone I showed that to. So I then took my experiment a step further and showed my computer science teachers all with PhDs (10 years of education) mugen and repeated the process with each teacher individually. -I was able to trick all of them -.

The only problem of the experiment was that only one of my fellow computer science classmates knew what mugen was prior to showing him this test. Most of the classmates and teachers did not know what mugen AI is typically like (mostly cheap and robotic and inhuman) but they were unable to find any very robotic and/or inhuman AI patterns that would give it away that I am "tricking" them or question if truly a human is playing. So after doing this experiment I "guess" my character AIs pass the Turing test or at least my own experiment.

Are there any other mugen characters out there created by you or someone else that if you did or feel like doing this experiment the mugen AI would pass the Turing test or at least my experiment?

~~The only Mugen creator on this site without a "gay" purple name.~~

Little known FACT: If you use the equation, (z)velocity = (((x2-x1)^2 + (y2-y1)^2)^.5) / time and z = a small decimal number in mugen you can get something that follows something else. Useful for heat seeking missiles, black holes, magnet effects, a projectile aimed for an enemy's head... Seriously, try it! It's awesome!

Jesuszilla

Re: Can mugen AIs pass the Turing test?

#2 December 11, 2014, 12:00:59 am

I'm a fuffy.

MUGEN utilizes a finite state machine. Now that I reminded you of that, go Google it and think about why your post is stupid.

This discussion does not make you look like any better of a coder. I think every time you make a stupid thread like this, it just shows how insecure you are with your own creations because everybody here knows they were bad and the way you took feedback was bad. You make threads and posts with very little thought behind them on theories that really don't have much practicality in terms of how they could be used in MUGEN in order to seek validation and cover your own flaws.

http://www.trinitymugen.net
It must be really awful being so ridiculous.
The best way to reach me is through PM at TM, IRC, or Skype. Capcom expert, feel free to ask for MUGEN help.

Last Edit: December 11, 2014, 12:11:30 am by Jesuszilla

Kamekaze

Re: Can mugen AIs pass the Turing test?

#3 December 11, 2014, 12:04:14 am

Greatness awaits

Not only that, but the premise of a turing test is that people know what the base is. If your friends have no idea how mugen works or how you play with said chars how do you expect them to distinguish human from AI performance? Sure I can tell when someone is using my AI vs using my char but that's because I've been doing this so long that I know my own AI habits. Your experiment is flawed.

Sony took it down

Guess it gave people the wrong idea. rip amberlamps.
96/150 Chars, I'm not dead yet....the true surprise is in my thread.

Websta

Re: Can mugen AIs pass the Turing test?

#4 December 11, 2014, 12:16:23 am

play more SNK games

Pretty sure most (if not all) of the people in the experiment didn't know anything about FGs

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Speedy9199

Re: Can mugen AIs pass the Turing test?

#5 December 11, 2014, 12:19:33 am

Make her whiter! Make her whiter!

Jesuszilla said, December 11, 2014, 12:00:59 am

MUGEN utilizes a finite state machine. Now that I reminded you of that, go Google it and see its relevance to Turing machines.

This discussion does not make you look like any better of a coder. I think every time you make a stupid thread like this, it just shows how insecure you are with your own creations because everybody here knows they were bad and the way you took feedback was bad. So you make threads and posts with very little thought behind them on theories that really don't have much practicality in terms of how they could be used in MUGEN in order to seek validation and cover your own flaws.

Are you serious... when writing that post I thought I wouldn't have to say something like "I am not trying to make myself look good" and I thought people wouldn't see something like that. Apparently not but apparently it does.

Anyway am I suppose to feel "hurt" by that comment? Well I don't and it was unneeded, at least everything after the first two sentences.

Anyway the main point of this thread was to explain what I did and wanted to know if there are other mugen characters that have the most human like behavior.

Don't ruin my thread.

~~The only Mugen creator on this site without a "gay" purple name.~~

Jesuszilla

Re: Can mugen AIs pass the Turing test?

#6 December 11, 2014, 12:26:48 am

I'm a fuffy.

To ruin your thread would imply it was a good one from the beginning. It wasn't.

Again, Google what a finite state machine is, and you will understand how limited they are. This thread is stupid and you showed little thought behind it and merely wanted yet another theoretical discussion to try to make yourself look good, which, mind you, is all you do these days, so that only strengthens my point.

http://www.trinitymugen.net
It must be really awful being so ridiculous.
The best way to reach me is through PM at TM, IRC, or Skype. Capcom expert, feel free to ask for MUGEN help.

Last Edit: December 11, 2014, 12:38:47 am by Jesuszilla

Killer Kong

Re: Can mugen AIs pass the Turing test?

#7 December 11, 2014, 12:43:30 am

Alright Simba you can do it

Gonna side with Kame here and say that if people don't know how something is done or the general medium it is done ON, how can they distinguish what would be an AI and what would be a human performance? If I showed someone unfamiliar with fighting games the AI behaviors of Super Turbo's AI while faking my gameplay as it I would very likely get the same response.

Speedy9199

Re: Can mugen AIs pass the Turing test?

#8 December 11, 2014, 12:46:55 am

Make her whiter! Make her whiter!

Jesuszilla said, December 11, 2014, 12:26:48 am

To ruin your thread would imply it was a good one from the beginning. It wasn't.

Again, Google what a finite state machine is, and you will understand how limited they are and how they could never possibly pass a Turing test. This thread is stupid and you showed little thought behind it and merely wanted yet another theoretical discussion to try to make yourself look good, which, mind you, is all you do these days, so that only strengthens my point.

I already knew that mugen is a state machine language before the creation of this thread. Alright, maybe I shouldn't have used the term "Turing Test" in this thread and should have just asked "Is there any mugen AIs that have human like behavior and mention the experiment I did." If you are going to go ape shit because I mentioned Turing Test and have to edit your post(which was an okay post) to talk more shit about me after what I said in my second post you need calm down or leave the internet for awhile...

~~The only Mugen creator on this site without a "gay" purple name.~~

Kamekaze

Re: Can mugen AIs pass the Turing test?

#9 December 11, 2014, 12:48:43 am

Greatness awaits

Well then let me answer that for you. No, it is not possible for ANY mugen AI to pass the turing test even slightly. My AI is very advanced and it still wouldn't convince anyone that a human is doing it no matter how much I code it to "act" like me.

Sony took it down

Guess it gave people the wrong idea. rip amberlamps.
96/150 Chars, I'm not dead yet....the true surprise is in my thread.

Umezono

Re: Can mugen AIs pass the Turing test?

#10 December 11, 2014, 12:51:31 am

i will meditate and then write a really epic post
jai ho

Jesuszilla said, December 11, 2014, 12:00:59 am

MUGEN utilizes a finite state machine. Now that I reminded you of that, go Google it and think about why your post is stupid.

This discussion does not make you look like any better of a coder. I think every time you make a stupid thread like this, it just shows how insecure you are with your own creations because everybody here knows they were bad and the way you took feedback was bad. You make threads and posts with very little thought behind them on theories that really don't have much practicality in terms of how they could be used in MUGEN in order to seek validation and cover your own flaws.

This will absolutely not be tolerated. Nothing in this thread gave you license to personal attack. Kamekaze was respectful and articulate in why the experiment flawed whereas you are throwing unrelated ad hominems and being downright malicious when the intent of the thread nowhere near justifies it.

Don't do this again.

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Kamekaze

Re: Can mugen AIs pass the Turing test?

#11 December 11, 2014, 12:54:39 am

Greatness awaits

JZ bringing up finite state machine was all that needed to be said. If he really knew what that was he would have answered his own question without some thread that would have just said the same thing. *shrugs*

Sony took it down

Guess it gave people the wrong idea. rip amberlamps.
96/150 Chars, I'm not dead yet....the true surprise is in my thread.

Umezono

Re: Can mugen AIs pass the Turing test?

#12 December 11, 2014, 12:59:51 am

i will meditate and then write a really epic post
jai ho

Exactly

Either way all thi thread does is detail an experiment, nothing wrong with it and the posts debating as to why it is wrong

Kamekaze

Re: Can mugen AIs pass the Turing test?

#13 December 11, 2014, 01:02:50 am

Greatness awaits

There is no debate, the experiment was flawed from inception because the sample was flawed. Thread over.

Sony took it down

Guess it gave people the wrong idea. rip amberlamps.
96/150 Chars, I'm not dead yet....the true surprise is in my thread.

Umezono

Re: Can mugen AIs pass the Turing test?

#14 December 11, 2014, 01:03:53 am

i will meditate and then write a really epic post
jai ho

Thanks for your input, its noted.

Speedy9199

Re: Can mugen AIs pass the Turing test?

#15 December 11, 2014, 01:07:38 am

Make her whiter! Make her whiter!

Umezono said, December 11, 2014, 12:51:31 am

Jesuszilla said, December 11, 2014, 12:00:59 am
MUGEN utilizes a finite state machine. Now that I reminded you of that, go Google it and think about why your post is stupid.

This discussion does not make you look like any better of a coder. I think every time you make a stupid thread like this, it just shows how insecure you are with your own creations because everybody here knows they were bad and the way you took feedback was bad. You make threads and posts with very little thought behind them on theories that really don't have much practicality in terms of how they could be used in MUGEN in order to seek validation and cover your own flaws.
This will absolutely not be tolerated. Nothing in this thread gave you license to personal attack. Kamekaze was respectful and articulate in why the experiment flawed whereas you are throwing unrelated ad hominems and being downright malicious when the intent of the thread nowhere near justifies it.

Don't do this again.

Jesuszilla does that every once and awhile in my threads in the past but I learned not to "hate" on him for doing so. His comments to me seem more like "fan comments"(even haters can be fans) if he didn't like me and showed no interest in me then he wouldn't post at all in my threads even if they are negative.(Just getting that out there for Jesuszilla) BTW I still and forever will hate it that you cannot know for sure the tone of voice someone has on message boards.

@Kamekaze I'll take your word on mugen ai and the turing test and I will try out your advanced AI for your characters.

~~The only Mugen creator on this site without a "gay" purple name.~~

Umezono

Re: Can mugen AIs pass the Turing test?

#16 December 11, 2014, 01:11:37 am

i will meditate and then write a really epic post
jai ho

keep it civil and on the experiment please.

Bannana

Re: Can mugen AIs pass the Turing test?

#17 December 11, 2014, 01:31:38 am

Lacking any sort of resolve

Kame and JZ already touched on this, but I'm confused how the experiment is supposed to prove anything when you don't have any precedent for what actually passes the test itself. Are there any video games that have AI that can and have passed this test (more importantly, has anything even passed it yet)? If there were, then you need to look at those games compared to MUGEN (engine wise as JZ noted). If there were no games that passed the test (and then clearly MUGEN can't pass it either), why is this?

How can you prove anything without setting any kind of standard?

im buggin out man
Buriki One

Jango Hakamichi

Re: Can mugen AIs pass the Turing test?

#18 December 11, 2014, 01:40:56 am

[The only one worthy of my love!]
Online

@Speedy9199: I'm not going to say whether or not this is a bragging thread or whatnot, but I do want to address the experiment.

I think a big part of how you got your results were all related to the power of suggestion. If you tell someone that you're playing ahead of time, it will psychologically already have them believing that you're playing and they'll overlook any mechanical errors that would otherwise happen because people are just really gullible in general. For example, let's say you make two pizzas that are totally identical, but for the second pizza, you tell the customer that you imported the tomatoes from Italy, got cheese that was aged to perfection, and used dough that was hand-tossed by a world-class pizza expert. I can guarantee you that the majority of people going for this test are going to say that the second pizza tastes better even though they're both the exact same thing.

If you REALLY want to see if you can fool a human being, you should record footage of yourself playing versus footage of the AI playing against itself, show them independently of each other without telling the subject which is which, then see if they can identify which one was human and which was AI. I think THAT would be a better test of whether or not your AI passes for a human AI.

The Simplistic Fubini

Re: Can mugen AIs pass the Turing test?

#19 December 11, 2014, 02:14:59 am

Online

That still wouldn't matter one bit if the members of his sample, phds and all, don't have some kind of knowledge about fgs. He could show them evo footage and saltybet matches and they still wouldn't know which one's human vs human and which one's cpu vs cpu.

Last Edit: December 11, 2014, 02:21:14 am by The Simplistic Fubini

Iced

Re: Can mugen AIs pass the Turing test?

#20 December 11, 2014, 02:24:28 am

does this look like the face of mercy?

Also the machine would have to be tested against, not just played against itself. If you cant attempt different things to see how it reacts how are you supposed to know if its reacting to what you do at all? How are you supposed to test player inteligence if you cant input data into it?

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