YesNoOk
avatar

Capcom vs. The World Beta (HUGE Update, 4 NEW Characters including Skullomania!) (Read 64739 times)

Started by Sean Altly, October 21, 2012, 09:47:14 am
Email this topic
View printable version
Share this topic:
Page 8 of 22← First < 1 ... 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 ... 22 > Last →   Go Down

The Real Niko

Re: Capcom vs. The World Beta
#141  October 29, 2012, 05:56:25 am
  • ***
  • The BadPixelMan
    • USA
Well damn. I'm REALLY behind after a one year internet hiatus. Still beta testing this whenever I do get spare time. Which patch link is the latest btw?

Cazaki

Re: Capcom vs. The World Beta
#142  October 29, 2012, 06:00:55 am
  • avatar
  • *****
Went through another arcade mode run and got matched up with Snake and I think it's safe to say something is wrong. Might just be the AI but I'll pinpoint the problems later. Also Lynn might just need less priority or recovery in general since her attacks hit borderline-halfway across the screen. At a later date (Not sure when cuz I've been pretty busy) I'll really give some real feedback.

Sean Altly

Re: Capcom vs. The World Beta
#143  October 29, 2012, 06:28:45 pm
  • *****
  • Get off my lawn - and on to the dance floor
    • USA
    • www.mugenguild.com/seanaltly
Did you get the last patch? Byakko said his normals were more manageable and he seemed to be okay now. Like people said earlier, Snake has Kamekaze AI, which is a lot harder than the AIs that I make. I've analyzed Snake's damage values, frame data, priority, etc., at this point I'm confident the only reason he seems so tough in Arcade mode is Kame's AI. Try playing as him instead of fighting him. Does he feel OP when you play as him? I don't think he does. People have been complaining about how hard Kame's AI is since Day One, it's just tough.

***UPDATE***

I do feel like I need to fix Alex's infinite, the Mr. X/Ken throw problem mentioned above, Jin's Blodia Punch issue on the Jungle Stage, etc. However, I don't want to make you guys download a patch just to fix those issues. So, I think I'm going to release another patch this week sometime, but I will include at least one more character to make it worth while, maybe two.
Son, the last thing you'll realize you need is what you've already got.

The Real Niko

Re: Capcom vs. The World Beta
#144  October 29, 2012, 07:28:14 pm
  • ***
  • The BadPixelMan
    • USA
Well I have Deep Jungle and two versions of Australian Outback in my own MUGEN and I can safely say the foreground grass/foliage covers any meters at the bottom of the screen in that too. SO yeah it's gonna happen.

Sean Altly

Re: Capcom vs. The World Beta
#145  October 29, 2012, 07:36:46 pm
  • *****
  • Get off my lawn - and on to the dance floor
    • USA
    • www.mugenguild.com/seanaltly
Huh? The foliage doesn't cover any meters in this. I lowered it in the last patch anyway, people were worried about it covering up attacks/projectiles, etc.

Also, I was going to talk to JeanBureau and see if it was okay to remove the foreground foliage completely, but he may have quit Mugen or something. His profile has no avatar/sig and just says "Ciao." He was working on at least 2 more stages for me as well.  :S
Son, the last thing you'll realize you need is what you've already got.

DKDC

Re: Capcom vs. The World Beta
#146  October 29, 2012, 07:39:11 pm
  • ******
Yeah, Snake is still a challenge but a lot easier to beat. Before the patch, he had links from two of his stand and crouch heavy basics, which made the damage rocket up in short series of 3~4 hits (which look totally normal for everyone else). Right now the only thing I can see is that his light basics have a lot of range, which makes it easy for him to poke and turn that into combos from there. He can still combo pretty easily, but it's less extravagant. His heavy attacks are still in range after long pokes, so the most I would say is to decide which light attacks are for long range poking (and have enough pushback) and which are for comboing, and not mix both, but it's much less urgent than before.
I've run into AI Jin Kazama, and even though the playable version has nothing out of the ordinary, the AI is insanely fast in pulling special moves and light attacks at perfect range, and he's really relentless about it. I don't know what to make of that, other than I've always hated AIs that abused that, because it can play with the character's strengths but you can't take advantage of his weaknesses, and you certainly can't play with the character the same way the AI does (you get punished extremely fast when you try).
If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.

Cazaki

Re: Capcom vs. The World Beta
#147  October 29, 2012, 07:52:26 pm
  • avatar
  • *****
DKDC said, October 29, 2012, 07:39:11 pm
Yeah, Snake is still a challenge but a lot easier to beat. Before the patch, he had links from two of his stand and crouch heavy basics, which made the damage rocket up in short series of 3~4 hits (which look totally normal for everyone else). Right now the only thing I can see is that his light basics have a lot of range, which makes it easy for him to poke and turn that into combos from there. He can still combo pretty easily, but it's less extravagant. His heavy attacks are still in range after long pokes, so the most I would say is to decide which light attacks are for long range poking (and have enough pushback) and which are for comboing, and not mix both, but it's much less urgent than before.

I think this pretty much sums it up, long range light attacks screw you and are tough to punish. If you block too much though you get command grabbed. There's no downside to gun spam so if he decides to spam projectiles your fucked, plus you can't see explosives on the jungle map. Very tough indeed. Even on Easy 1. He's beatable with SOME characters but alot of guys like Laurel and Mr. X struggle.

Sean Altly

Re: Capcom vs. The World Beta
#148  October 29, 2012, 08:04:50 pm
  • *****
  • Get off my lawn - and on to the dance floor
    • USA
    • www.mugenguild.com/seanaltly
Hmm, first of all, I think I'm just going to go ahead and switch Snake's stage in arcade mode. I could also look into giving him some sort of Ammo system, like the one Laurel has, to reduce Gun spamming. Not sure what to do about the long range light attacks besides drawing new ones, but that would be a ways off because I need to finish DivineWolf and Jango's commissions. Maybe for now I could just shorten the hit box on them by a few pixels. The only command grabs he has are his Super, so it has limits, and the B+HP one, which I should probably make blockable.

@Byakko

Jin's AI was the first one I made (as in, my first AI ever), so I may need to go back and look at it. His AI was part of the reason I didn't think Jin needed that much work, because he seemed pretty tough when you were fighting against him. I probably just need to mess around with it some more.
Son, the last thing you'll realize you need is what you've already got.

DKDC

Re: Capcom vs. The World Beta
#149  October 29, 2012, 08:10:23 pm
  • ******
Quote
Not sure what to do about the long range light attacks
Increase pushback, and/or maybe shave off a couple pixels on the heavy attack hitboxes. The problem is that it's abusable at long range, so just make the combo whiff at max range. On short range it's the same as everyone.
If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.

Cazaki

Re: Capcom vs. The World Beta
#150  October 29, 2012, 08:18:03 pm
  • avatar
  • *****
Don't redraw, I don't really want to place even more of a burden on your shoulders, but you can just extend the recov frames by a few milliseconds on the light attacks so it's easier to whiff from far back, less priority (MAYBE. I haven't actually looked on FF to see if that's what he needs.) and push back the CLSNs a little. I was referring to both command grabs, yeah, the AI uses both with efficiency. After that I'm pretty sure that Snake will be fine.

I have some suggestions for Squall as far as how his CLSNs are placed and how his magic works as well but I'll take some more time to write in detail then probably PM it to you, if you like it, wouldn't take no more than a good 30 minutes to do it. I'm not sure if it'll be today or not but yeah.

EDIT: Damn beat me to the light attack solution

Sean Altly

Re: Capcom vs. The World Beta
#151  October 29, 2012, 08:24:09 pm
  • *****
  • Get off my lawn - and on to the dance floor
    • USA
    • www.mugenguild.com/seanaltly
Yeah, I just checked, and for some reason his standing LP only has -2 ground velocity, while everyone else in the game has -4. I ended up going through his other normal attacks, and it was like that for almost all of them, other characters in the game have -6 for medium and -8 for strong, but Snake had -5 for medium and -7 for strong. I updated all of them, as well as went through and messed with some collisions to reduce priority and range slightly on most normals.
Son, the last thing you'll realize you need is what you've already got.

The Real Niko

Re: Capcom vs. The World Beta
#152  October 29, 2012, 08:34:56 pm
  • ***
  • The BadPixelMan
    • USA
Sean Altly said, October 29, 2012, 07:36:46 pm
Huh? The foliage doesn't cover any meters in this. I lowered it in the last patch anyway, people were worried about it covering up attacks/projectiles, etc.

Also, I was going to talk to JeanBureau and see if it was okay to remove the foreground foliage completely, but he may have quit Mugen or something. His profile has no avatar/sig and just says "Ciao." He was working on at least 2 more stages for me as well.  :S

WTF really? Maybe someone pissed him off here? That really blows. I really need to get the patch but whatever. Just do what you do.

xaekin

Re: Capcom vs. The World Beta
#153  October 29, 2012, 09:55:10 pm
  • **
  • May as well have a bit of class.
    • USA
Sean Altly said, October 29, 2012, 07:36:46 pm
Also, I was going to talk to JeanBureau and see if it was okay to remove the foreground foliage completely, but he may have quit Mugen or something. His profile has no avatar/sig and just says "Ciao." He was working on at least 2 more stages for me as well.  :S
Well that sucks. He did good stuff while he was here, at least.

But SeanAltly, I've been holding off on this since I know it's a pain, and I wanted to make damn sure it wasn't just me, but something needs to be done with the Mr. X / Sub-Zero matchup. It's just simply broken in its current state. Sub-Zero's a fine character, as is Mr.X, it's just the matchup, that's got problems. See, Mr. X's super armor makes him immune to almost everything Sub-Zero can do. He can't be frozen, making the projectile and ice clone specials simply useless. This also makes the Polar Blast super useless, as again, no point in doing it if he's immune to freezing. He can't be slipped up with the ice puddle special, either.

Two of Sub-Zero's specials do work somewhat; his ice slide works as normal, though the super armor limits its use as intended, and his command grab will do the damage it really should. The thing is, Sub-Zero is a zoning character. His gameplay is built around controlling space, and punishing any failure to respect it. Consequently, he doesn't have good normals, which means that against Mr. X, who does have good normals, he can't get in. And Mr. X is busy ignoring any of the traps and projectiles there because he simply doesn't need to care. Sub-Zero is stuck trying to grapple Mr. X, since it's the only way he can really do damage.

I don't much to offer in the way of suggestions, but without being able to freeze, sub-zero lost the fight before it begins. As it is, Sub-Zero's tools can be just devastating to anyone who needs to get close to him, but he doesn't have the tools to out-grapple Mr. X in close quarters. On the flip side, Mr. X  works well just by absorbing attempts at knocking him down, and he shouldn't lose his primary advantage for the sake of one matchup. The best idea I can offer is that his super armor needs to be better anyhow, and adjusting it so that he can be frozen on the hit that he should be taking damage on would help even the odds, hopefully without nerfing him out of the range.

As said, though, it's gonna be a pain. Now that I've put it in the thread, though, I must away, for there is a hurricane outside.
"I should probably call it a night. ...Sure, give me a sword and a throne and we'll make a big thing of it."

SlenderMan

Re: Capcom vs. The World Beta
#154  October 29, 2012, 10:01:31 pm
  • ****
  • I'm behind you!!!
I tend to find the challenge fun when using Subby on Mr.X. I usually jump over him, hit him , then rinse and repeat til I can use the Ice spikes Hyper which hurts Mr.X alot.


Join at...    http://stormex.webs.com/

Duos

Re: Capcom vs. The World Beta
#155  October 29, 2012, 10:41:22 pm
  • ******
    • USA
Sub Zero has enough good matchups anyway, what with his freeze ball being unreflectable and totally safe, and all of his moves being so hard to punish on block.

Astro!

Re: Capcom vs. The World Beta
#156  October 29, 2012, 11:14:38 pm
  • avatar
  • **
@xaekin,
 that's one of those matchups I felt were exclusively unfair to me, lol. But personally, as a "boss" character, Mr. X functions like any other boss that isn't affected by moves with special states. So in a sense, it's kind of fair...kind of.

@SeanAltly,
imo, Jin seems to be fine at his position, and the fact that his AI executes moves so quickly makes him to be unique and a good challenge at times.
Honestly, I didn't start off liking Snake, but once he got nerfed, I found him to be at that right level where I just needed practice. Which, seems to be all I need facing anyone.

Sean Altly

Re: Capcom vs. The World Beta
#157  October 30, 2012, 12:09:21 am
  • *****
  • Get off my lawn - and on to the dance floor
    • USA
    • www.mugenguild.com/seanaltly
@MC2

When you say not reflectable, are you saying his Freeze doesn't collide with other projectiles? I'm just wondering if it's someone specific because I loade dup the game with Ryu and Sub-Zero and they seem to collide fine. I need to knwo though because it should be colliding with everyone's and I'd like to fix it if there's a problem.

@xaekin

Well, I've known it wa sa bad matchup for a while, but I just figured, well, Sub-Zero sucks against Mr. X. I assume other games have match-ups like that, things like grapplers being terrible against zoning characters, that sort of thing. However, I did work out a way for Freeze attacks to work on Mr. X. I went ahead and did it, and now it feels like the other end of the spectrum, in that it seems now Mr. X is totally fucked against Sub-Zero. Not sure how to proceed. I don't want to deal with the headache of having the freeze only work on the third hit like other attacks. I'll figure something out though, maybe make Mr. X being freezable part of the next patch and get some opinions on it.

Also, to the people who play as Sub-Zero, do you think he needs another Level 1? I ask because Polar Blast is basically an EX EX Freeze (the two EXs are intentional, it's like an enhanced EX Freeze in a way), and Ice Spikes is good but not great IMO. Maybe an Ice Beam or an attack super? Or do you guys think he's fine as is?
Son, the last thing you'll realize you need is what you've already got.

Lith

Re: Capcom vs. The World Beta
#158  October 30, 2012, 12:19:01 am
  • ******
  • :^
    • USA
    • sites.google.com/site/zetryou/
I think removing the Polar Blast would be good for another super. It's not as reliable as the other 2 freezes he has. Although he's still a really strong character even without another level 1.

Sean Altly

Re: Capcom vs. The World Beta
#159  October 30, 2012, 12:20:28 am
  • *****
  • Get off my lawn - and on to the dance floor
    • USA
    • www.mugenguild.com/seanaltly
Well, I was going to keep the Polar Blast, just add another super. Some others have more than 3 supers (Haggar, Snake, Laurel).
Son, the last thing you'll realize you need is what you've already got.

Lith

Re: Capcom vs. The World Beta
#160  October 30, 2012, 12:21:44 am
  • ******
  • :^
    • USA
    • sites.google.com/site/zetryou/
Oh, I just figured it was two level 1s and one 3. My bad.

And yeah Snake is pretty tough at the moment.. I haven't been this frustrated at a character since Fray last year.
Page 8 of 22← First < 1 ... 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 ... 22 > Last →   Go Up