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Clone Koakuma by Daniel9999999GMC updated 8/27/13 (Read 30157 times)

Started by Ricepigeon, June 02, 2013, 04:19:14 am
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Clone Koakuma by Daniel9999999GMC updated 8/27/13
New #1  June 02, 2013, 04:19:14 am
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Last Edit: August 28, 2013, 06:00:07 am by Ricepigeon
Re: Clone Koakuma by Daniel9999999GMC released
#2  June 02, 2013, 10:34:42 am
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Uhm...what's up with the stars? Or that 1UP Baloon from Donkey Kong Country? Or that HUD?
And what exactly makes this Koakuma a clone?
Re: Clone Koakuma by Daniel9999999GMC released
#3  June 03, 2013, 12:37:02 am
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Uhm...what's up with the stars? Or that 1UP Baloon from Donkey Kong Country? Or that HUD?
And what exactly makes this Koakuma a clone?

Some silly backstory from her readme.

Also, all of her normals have the exact same frame advantage (+2) on hit and block with the exception of her crouching hard kicks.
Re: Clone Koakuma by Daniel9999999GMC released
#4  June 03, 2013, 04:37:44 am
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Also, all of her normals have the exact same frame advantage (+2) on hit and block with the exception of her crouching hard kicks.

Hello, this is Daniel speaking. Can I ask a question regarding said frame advantages? Which numbers would you consider fair on them? (For all Kicks and Punches) For all this time I've been thinking the normals should be the safest, but I never got a numeric answer regarding those. Thanks in advance!

By the way, this is an update that addresses a stupid oversight from my part. http://www.mediafire.com/?sgdfdth2p8tv3o7
Last Edit: June 03, 2013, 04:58:32 am by Koa-Devil
Re: Clone Koakuma by Daniel9999999GMC released
#5  June 03, 2013, 05:42:45 am
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Depends on the attacks mostly. If you want a rough guideline, lighter attacks are usually safe on both hit and block, while heavy attacks tend to be unsafe (frame adv wise) on both hit and block, with medium attacks somewhere in between.

Again, it depends mostly on the character as well as game system you're trying to emulate. Some games have identical frame advantage for both hit and block (SSF2T to name one). Also deviates depending on how fast or slow the startup time for the attack is.

Also I'm only noticing now that all of C.Koa's normals have no priority to them. I'm not talking about the priority values in the hitdef, those should all be set to 4,hit or removed entirely unless its a grab move. I'm talking about her hitbox placement. It looks like you're trying to emulate CF63&1/3's system and while I'll admit I haven't touched the game, I doubt the hitboxes for the character's normals were like that.

     Posted: June 03, 2013, 05:44:21 am
Updated the link in the first post since you mentioned it just now.
Re: Clone Koakuma by Daniel9999999GMC updated
#6  June 03, 2013, 06:35:22 am
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Depends on the attacks mostly. If you want a rough guideline, lighter attacks are usually safe on both hit and block, while heavy attacks tend to be unsafe (frame adv wise) on both hit and block, with medium attacks somewhere in between.

Again, it depends mostly on the character as well as game system you're trying to emulate. Some games have identical frame advantage for both hit and block (SSF2T to name one). Also deviates depending on how fast or slow the startup time for the attack is.

Also I'm only noticing now that all of C.Koa's normals have no priority to them. I'm not talking about the priority values in the hitdef, those should all be set to 4,hit or removed entirely unless its a grab move. I'm talking about her hitbox placement. It looks like you're trying to emulate CF63&1/3's system and while I'll admit I haven't touched the game, I doubt the hitboxes for the character's normals were like that.

Many thanks! Well, as of now, the f-adv. for the moves are as follows:
Standing:
Light P/K = +2 (both guard and hit); Med P = -2 (hit), -3 (guard); Strong P = -4,-6; Medium K = -3,-5; Strong K = -5,-7
Crouching:
Light P/K = +2,+2; Med P = -3,-5; Strong P = -10 (guard only is mentioned as it's a knockdown move); Med K = -4,-6 ;Strong K = -12 (guard)

I also changed the hittimes in a few specials that required the frame Advantage fixing. (Swerving Sword and Devilish Dash)

About the lack of priority.. I guess it's my fault on being paranoid with oversized attack boxes, I guess I'll try to put some more area according to her movement. In CF63&1/3 the hitboxes also lacked area coverage, sometimes even missing the target completely... I guess I should take more account into that.

Once again, many thanks!
Re: Clone Koakuma by Daniel9999999GMC updated
#7  June 03, 2013, 05:57:23 pm
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Many thanks! Well, as of now, the f-adv. for the moves are as follows:
Standing:
Light P/K = +2 (both guard and hit); Med P = -2 (hit), -3 (guard); Strong P = -4,-6; Medium K = -3,-5; Strong K = -5,-7
Crouching:
Light P/K = +2,+2; Med P = -3,-5; Strong P = -10 (guard only is mentioned as it's a knockdown move); Med K = -4,-6 ;Strong K = -12 (guard)

Not too familiar with CF's system but most fighters typically have enough frame advantage on their jabs to allow for links to her other normals: just long enough so that you can link another jab at the exact moment a jab ends and it'll still count as a combo, but short enough to avoid infinites.

Also noticing her medium and heavy attacks have something like 12/17 frames of startup as well.

Oh, also forgot to mention thats punches and kicks of equal strength (that is, standing, crouching, and jumping light punch) generally use identical hittimes. The only thing that makes the difference in frame advantage is the amount of recovery frames.

Quote
About the lack of priority.. I guess it's my fault on being paranoid with oversized attack boxes, I guess I'll try to put some more area according to her movement. In CF63&1/3 the hitboxes also lacked area coverage, sometimes even missing the target completely... I guess I should take more account into that.
Once again, many thanks!

To me it sounded more like trying to avoid the whole "infinite priority" thing, wasnt referring to the area coverage so much.
Re: Clone Koakuma by Daniel9999999GMC updated
#8  June 03, 2013, 08:07:41 pm
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Not too familiar with CF's system but most fighters typically have enough frame advantage on their jabs to allow for links to her other normals: just long enough so that you can link another jab at the exact moment a jab ends and it'll still count as a combo, but short enough to avoid infinites.


Neutralized all jabs F. Advantage to 0 in that case just to be sure.


Oh, also forgot to mention thats punches and kicks of equal strength (that is, standing, crouching, and jumping light punch) generally use identical hittimes. The only thing that makes the difference in frame advantage is the amount of recovery frames.


Yeah, the thing is I noticed C. Koa's strength and ease to combo mostly has to do with the kicks, so I made them slightly riskier for a quick attack to cut in.


To me it sounded more like trying to avoid the whole "infinite priority" thing, wasnt referring to the area coverage so much.


I guess this was because of what Elecbyte used to repeat often about the whole blue always over red, though I noticed things have apparently changed since actual fighting games tend to give some little uncovered Red CLSN boxes.


Is there any other little problems I could address as for the moment?
Re: Clone Koakuma by Daniel9999999GMC updated
#9  June 03, 2013, 08:23:39 pm
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Neutralized all jabs F. Advantage to 0 in that case just to be sure.

Only problem with that now is now she won't be able to link anything from her jabs, including another jab.

I'm noticing alot of her attacks seem to have taken influence from Patchouli and Remilia. Perhaps using these as reference may help?:

http://hisouten.koumakan.jp/wiki/Patchouli_Knowledge/Normal_Moves
http://hisouten.koumakan.jp/wiki/Remilia_Scarlet/Normal_Moves
http://wiki.mizuumi.net/w/Immaterial_and_Missing_Power/Patchouli_Knowledge#Frame_Data
http://wiki.mizuumi.net/w/Immaterial_and_Missing_Power/Remilia_Scarlet#Frame_Data

EDIT: May wanna look at Tenshi as well since it seems the original sprite artist used her as a base for some attacks as well.

Doesn't have to be exact but the overall feel should still be the same. Also I can't think of any fighting game that uses the whole "wrongblock" system since Touhou fighters use this instead of overheads & low attacks.

Quote
I guess this was because of what Elecbyte used to repeat often about the whole blue always over red, though I noticed things have apparently changed since actual fighting games tend to give some little uncovered Red CLSN boxes.

Rule of thumb is if you're able to get hitbox data from the source game to use that instead of anything else. Since Koakuma obviously wasn't in any fighting game, you can approximate the hitboxes of similar attacks she shares with Patchy and Remi since they do exist in actual fighters.

If all else fails, then you can judge the hitboxes for the attacks on a case-by-case basis.
Re: Clone Koakuma by Daniel9999999GMC updated
#10  June 03, 2013, 10:57:32 pm
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Only problem with that now is now she won't be able to link anything from her jabs, including another jab.


She still can, as her jabs can be cancelled into themselves, this is something I forgot to document in the readme. I tested her out and she's able to still chain attacks just fine.


Doesn't have to be exact but the overall feel should still be the same. Also I can't think of any fighting game that uses the whole "wrongblock" system since Touhou fighters use this instead of overheads & low attacks.


Changed some of the matching attacks' hitboxes in these cases.


Rule of thumb is if you're able to get hitbox data from the source game to use that instead of anything else. Since Koakuma obviously wasn't in any fighting game, you can approximate the hitboxes of similar attacks she shares with Patchy and Remi since they do exist in actual fighters.


Understood and in mind for every next creation I may make from a game.


Well I have been playing around with most of these suggestions and put them up as I'd still need a second opinion regarding them:

http://www.mediafire.com/?d4yajb82yer81mf

Update list:
   Changed a few frame advantages here and there, mainly for her normal and strong moves. As well as her aerial moves.
   Some special moves are slightly quicker in execution.
   Added a bit more of initial velocity displacement on Continum Charge.
   Added a tiny bit of more physical priority to some moves. Mainly trying to do similar hitboxes on some moves to her other counterparts with similar attacks.
   Added victory port (9000,2) by yours truly
   Fixed Air vels and juggling regarding Triple Aura.
   Moved Insane Combo's command detection lower than all the other super moves.
Last Edit: June 03, 2013, 11:27:28 pm by Koa-Devil
Re: Clone Koakuma by Daniel9999999GMC updated
#11  June 17, 2013, 03:06:12 am
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C. Koa has been Updated Today:

Updated:

   Decided to get rid of the "KI" system, everything else in the character such as the insane combo stays though.
   Projectile is less safe the farther you throw it.
   Weak Aerial Aura is not safe anymore.
   Added a provisional AI.
   Cropped All Sprite Work.
   Added Super Portraits.
   Some Velocities Changed.

Link:

http://www.mediafire.com/?xru3j75bed0agy2



Also sorry for asking this again, but does someone have a good voice for her? Besides the voice that was on the original Koakuma by Som that is. I'd be glad if you guys gave me a good voice for her, thanks in advance.

I'd also be glad the topic could be moved to the main WinMUGEN releases board. Could somebody do that please? :)
Re: Clone Koakuma by Daniel9999999GMC updated
#12  June 17, 2013, 03:30:48 pm
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Also sorry for asking this again, but does someone have a good voice for her? Besides the voice that was on the original Koakuma by Som that is. I'd be glad if you guys gave me a good voice for her, thanks in advance.
Som's Koakuma has a voice? Did I missed an update or something? The version of Som's Koa that I have doesn't have a voice at all.
Re: Clone Koakuma by Daniel9999999GMC updated
#13  June 17, 2013, 07:09:33 pm
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Som's Koakuma has a voice? Did I missed an update or something? The version of Som's Koa that I have doesn't have a voice at all.

Yes she does, it's activated by fiddling on her -2 State in Koakuma_05_WatchDog.st:

Code:
[State -2, VarSet]
Type       = VarSet
Trigger1   = RoundState = [0,1]
Trigger2   = (var(15)=1)
var(5)     = 0 ;[‰Šú’l0] <--- Setting this to 1 turns on her voice.
Re: Clone Koakuma by Daniel9999999GMC updated
#14  June 19, 2013, 09:25:01 pm
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Updated C. Koa again fixing a glitch that nobody noticed, even me with the AI (required pressing two buttons at once other than x+y):

http://www.mediafire.com/?dudhzcvd1a78nca

The glitch was just an oversight with the Winane AI template by my mistake.
Re: Clone Koakuma by Daniel9999999GMC updated
#15  June 20, 2013, 12:42:11 am
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Clone Koakuma by Sanae63 updated 19/07/13 (Check Last Post for the update)
#16  July 20, 2013, 02:14:04 am
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Whoa it's been a LONG while since I ever updated something recent, but here it is, I've continued updating this character and here's what it's been done:

Spoiler: The Update's contents in a nutshell (click to see content)

Screenies: (Courtesy of @C.A.N)

Spoiler: How do I put the game in? (click to see content)

The link:

http://www.mediafire.com/?le445qj0lwhxm7r

@Ricepigeon: Hope it's not so much to ask if I ask you to update the first post :)
Re: Clone Koakuma by Daniel9999999GMC updated 6/19/13
#17  July 20, 2013, 02:31:33 am
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Nice to know you finally got around to releasing her update. :)
Is finding MUGEN to be more enjoyable to play when you're not wearing clothes an underrated opinion?
Re: Clone Koakuma by Daniel9999999GMC updated 7/19/13
#18  July 20, 2013, 03:52:08 am
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1st page updated as requested, plus the little extra thing we discussed on Skype.
Re: Clone Koakuma by Daniel9999999GMC updated 7/19/13
#19  July 20, 2013, 09:11:46 am
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Maybe it's me, but it does seem that she gains meter at a rather quick rate.
Re: Clone Koakuma by Daniel9999999GMC updated 7/19/13
#20  July 20, 2013, 09:19:22 am
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Maybe it's me, but it does seem that she gains meter at a rather quick rate.

She kinda does now that I notice, in the game I originally had in mind when making her gameplay, 7 special moves gave out 1 bar, regardless of variant. I guess I should make it 9 or 10