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Cops shoot, kill black Mugen cosplayer (Read 2612 times)

Started by Iced, November 28, 2014, 12:15:19 am

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Iced

Cops shoot, kill black Mugen cosplayer

#1 November 28, 2014, 12:15:19 am

does this look like the face of mercy?

http://boingboing.net/2014/11/26/new-video-emerges-of-black-cos.html

Holy shit.

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Orochi Gill

Re: Cops shoot, kill black Mugen cosplayer

#2 November 28, 2014, 12:18:12 am

Si monumentum requires, circumspice
Online

Yeah uhh, even if it's decorative and non-sharp, you probably shouldn't swing a sword around by cops

HQ

Re: Cops shoot, kill black Mugen cosplayer

#3 November 28, 2014, 12:22:59 am

Why was he running away to begin with? or did I miss that in the video?

http://13thzone.proboards.com/

Alpaca-San

Re: Cops shoot, kill black Mugen cosplayer

#4 November 28, 2014, 12:24:31 am

I bite the faces of people who don't wanna be cool

Orochi Gill said, November 28, 2014, 12:18:12 am

Yeah uhh, even if it's decorative and non-sharp, you probably shouldn't swing a sword around by cops

And when told to drop your weapon, you should drop your weapon whether it's a toy or not.

Vans said, January 15, 2014, 10:25:02 pm

I'm also under the impression that people keep neglecting data from the game, do you guys know how PotS made his original characters? He actually studied every single game he referenced, down to the core. Doing this properly requires understanding how the original system was made, not just winging it.

Niitris

Re: Cops shoot, kill black Mugen cosplayer

#5 November 28, 2014, 12:27:24 am

Quote

The footage shows that he was dressed as a samurai. His family says he was carrying a non-sharp replica sword, and was an anime fan who was cosplaying as a samurai character from a popular anime series. The cops shot him 6 times in the back while he was fleeing for his life. The video contradicts earlier statements by police that Hunt swung the sword at the police officers before they began shooting him.

Of course.

And I was just telling myself today that cops shouldn't be allowed to carry guns.

Black Hatter

Re: Cops shoot, kill black Mugen cosplayer

#6 November 28, 2014, 12:28:56 am

Official Digital Artist for Capcom vs SNK 3

Oh dear God.....

Visit my deviantART:

black-hatter-95.deviantart.com/

Iced

Re: Cops shoot, kill black Mugen cosplayer

#7 November 28, 2014, 12:29:38 am

does this look like the face of mercy?

Guys, running from the cops does not allow them to kill you. Lethal force is supposed to only be used if you are presenting a threat to someone, not if you arent obeying them.

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Titiln

Re: Cops shoot, kill black Mugen cosplayer

#8 November 28, 2014, 12:36:21 am

Niitris said, November 28, 2014, 12:27:24 am

cops shouldn't be allowed to carry guns.

considering all the crimes that are done using guns that's a fucking terrible idea

fanfictionimg | badgame!

What happened to flashballs ? Tasers, any non-lethal alternative that can still knock out people from a distance without killing them ?
When there's such massive evidence that the cop went completely gun crazy with no immediate apparent threat to his life, he should be fired and judged as a civillian, not as a cop. Do child murderers get the death penalty ? But of course the police is going to stand behind him.

If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.

Basara Dandy

Re: Cops shoot, kill black Mugen cosplayer

#10 November 28, 2014, 01:01:26 am

Space Dandy wa uchuu wa Dandy de-aru

I think the sword is an excuse, I just see another cowarly racist attack here by white police, just like in Fergurson-Missouri

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Niitris

Re: Cops shoot, kill black Mugen cosplayer

#11 November 28, 2014, 01:01:49 am

Titiln said, November 28, 2014, 12:36:21 am

considering all the crimes that are done using guns that's a fucking terrible idea

Given those conditions, yes I agree. But I'm sure it's not an atmosphere people want to live around, maybe except people who think it's cool to own a gun or something.

With the recent events involving cops needlessly shooting and killing people, rather easy to start feeling that way. I still stand by the sentiment in that change would have to start from somewhere (starting with civilians might be better, idk). America's gun culture is absolutely ridiculous, especially for a developed nation. Quite embarrassing personally.

Last Edit: November 28, 2014, 01:18:37 am by Niitris

TempesT

Re: Cops shoot, kill black Mugen cosplayer

#12 November 28, 2014, 01:02:13 am

Alpaca-San said, November 28, 2014, 12:24:31 am

And when told to drop your weapon, you should drop your weapon whether it's a toy or not.

I wanna hope this is an ironic post but I don't know you well enough to make that assumption

Orochi Gill said, November 28, 2014, 12:18:12 am

Yeah uhh, even if it's decorative and non-sharp, you probably shouldn't swing a sword around by cops

Do you plan on elaborating on this point or are you fine with leaving it at "he deserved to be shot and killed"?

you can't mixup a blind man, and you can't out think a brick ~skisonic
Street fighting is all about analysis, prediction, and reaction. That's it.

Duos

Re: Cops shoot, kill black Mugen cosplayer

#13 November 28, 2014, 01:14:00 am

Since when does swinging any sort of physical weapon, toy or otherwise, at a cop warrant getting fatally shot though. Unless you're like military trained or something, having a physical melee weapon is gonna put you at a disadvantage to someone with a firearm, they don't NEED to fucking shoot you to death. Just another story of cops being bullies with badges I guess.

Orochi Gill

Re: Cops shoot, kill black Mugen cosplayer

#14 November 28, 2014, 01:14:35 am

Si monumentum requires, circumspice
Online

I never said he deserved death, good lord woman

I was just saying he was, regardless of if the cops did right or not, doing shit he shouldn't have been doing in the first place.

Duos

Re: Cops shoot, kill black Mugen cosplayer

#15 November 28, 2014, 01:16:45 am

Why shouldn't he though? Why does just having a weapon in public (a sword at that. a fake sword at that) present such a problem? If he was pointing a sword at someone and threatening them that would be a different matter. You don't think it's a bit overkill to say "Well this guy has a sword, we should shoot him to death first and foremost?"

Orochi Gill

Re: Cops shoot, kill black Mugen cosplayer

#16 November 28, 2014, 01:19:31 am

Si monumentum requires, circumspice
Online

Maybe I should've worded it better.

Swinging things that look like weapons around is going to make cops antsy. Should he have been blown away? No. But should he have run? No. Should he have fooled around with the sword in front of them? No. While he did stuff he shouldn't have, the cops are probably more wrong as there are non-lethal ways to deal with that sort of stuff.

HQ

Re: Cops shoot, kill black Mugen cosplayer

#17 November 28, 2014, 01:26:12 am

Iced said, November 28, 2014, 12:29:38 am

Guys, running from the cops does not allow them to kill you. Lethal force is supposed to only be used if you are presenting a threat to someone, not if you arent obeying them.

Not what I was implying. Just wondering what caused him to run away. To me, being not a US-citizen, the behaviour of the people shot (Brown, this guy and the 12year old kid), contradicts to what I would consider to be a normal reaction seeing a police man show up. I know the current discussion is all about racism, but in all these cases people did something that could have gone in the other direction too (- they could have hurt others, including the police, whether it may been with a gun or sword). To me this is clearly no legitimiate reason to shoot somebody down, yet I dont see the whole guilt on the police - there have been lots of incidents with people going crazy with guns so people expect the worst. If somebody runs or fights back that can probably lead to the wrong decision path easily. I dont know enough about US laws about carrying around weapons, but it sure is weird to fiddle them around in public, at people & the police.

http://13thzone.proboards.com/

Iced

Re: Cops shoot, kill black Mugen cosplayer

#18 November 28, 2014, 01:29:54 am

does this look like the face of mercy?

Quote

a bystander reported Hunt "had his earbuds in, and was kind of doing spins and stuff, like pretending he's a samurai."

Quote

The County Attorney's Office confirmed that when the officers showed up to respond to a 911 call about a man with a sword, Hunt asked them for a ride.

Quote

Hunt was shot six times from behind. He was hit once in a shoulder, once in the back, once in an elbow, twice in a leg and once in a hand, according to the attorney.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/16/darrien-hunt-shot-in-the-back-by-utah-police-says-family-attorney
http://gawker.com/autopsy-cops-shot-black-anime-cosplayer-four-times-in-1652268367

how do you shoot someone six times in the back while they are attacking you after asking you for a ride?

@HQ:

this is legal:

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HQ

Re: Cops shoot, kill black Mugen cosplayer

#19 November 28, 2014, 01:32:24 am

ok, seeing what is legal, makes me wonder how people feel save around people that think they need a machine gun, or whatever these guns are, for shopping...

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Speedpreacher

Re: Cops shoot, kill black Mugen cosplayer

#20 November 28, 2014, 01:33:55 am

All my machines are made for destruction.

Yeah, I like to look at things from both sides (that's how you reach understanding, after all). But there's no ifs on this. This is a man who got shot for the crime of being a strange looking black man in the vicinity of trigger happy cops. All involved should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

But they won't be.

If you close your eyes, your life a naked truth revealed
Dreams you never lived and scars never healed
In the darkness light will take you to the other side
And find me waiting there, you'll see if you just close your eyes.
If you just close your eyes.
If you just close your eyes.

DKDC

Re: Cops shoot, kill black Mugen cosplayer

#21 November 28, 2014, 01:36:59 am

HQ said, November 28, 2014, 01:32:24 am

ok, seeing what is legal, makes me wonder how people feel save around people that think they need a machine gun, or whatever these guns are, for shopping...

They must be afraid that the cops will shoot them.
They forgot they were white, though !

HQ said, November 28, 2014, 01:26:12 am

To me this is clearly no legitimiate reason to shoot somebody down, yet I dont see the whole guilt on the police - there have been lots of incidents with people going crazy with guns so people expect the worst.

This is only valid if the guy is attacking them. As soon as he's not threatening anyone, the cops are guilty - they're murderers. There's no expectation of anything when the guy is running for his life. In fact, the guy had every right to expect the worst from the cops, completely validating his running away in the first place. This "expect the worst" thing goes both way. Why shouldn't he run away from two big guys pointing their guns at him ? The uniform doesn't excuse anything.

On top of the cops shooting at the guy running away, there's also the fact that this happened with a street full of cars passing by in the back. In the next to last surveillance tape, when you see the guyrunning away and the cop chasing him, there's lots of cars driving in the back, and you see the cop shoot in their direction. He really doesn't care if he's going to hit a driver and cause a car crash ? This is, like super basic shit.

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Last Edit: November 28, 2014, 01:46:19 am by DKDC

The Simplistic Fubini

Re: Cops shoot, kill black Mugen cosplayer

#22 November 28, 2014, 01:55:07 am

Wow that's pretty shitty. This is straight up murder, no excuses.

...Am I the only one who expected this thread to be the newly renamed shit thread or some sort of joke?

Last Edit: November 28, 2014, 02:08:57 am by The Simplistic Fubini

Duos

Re: Cops shoot, kill black Mugen cosplayer

#23 November 28, 2014, 02:05:49 am

The Simplistic Fubini said, November 28, 2014, 01:55:07 am

Wow that's pretty shitty. This is straight up murder, no excuses.

...Am I the only one who expected this thread to be the newly renamed shit thread or some sort joke?

I was expecting it to be a joke since Iced usually has some sort of twist to his thread titles, it was kind of a blow to the gut to see that it wasn't.

Alpaca-San

Re: Cops shoot, kill black Mugen cosplayer

#24 November 28, 2014, 02:30:55 am

I bite the faces of people who don't wanna be cool

TempesT said, November 28, 2014, 01:02:13 am

I wanna hope this is an ironic post but I don't know you well enough to make that assumption

Excuse my vagueness.

The cops have taken the wrong action, no doubt about it. That was definitely excessive force. However, I still feel the guy's death could've been prevented if he just drop his toy like they asked and not apparently swing the thing at them and run.

Iced said, November 28, 2014, 01:29:54 am

Quote
a bystander reported Hunt "had his earbuds in, and was kind of doing spins and stuff, like pretending he's a samurai."
Quote
The County Attorney's Office confirmed that when the officers showed up to respond to a 911 call about a man with a sword, Hunt asked them for a ride.

Quote
Hunt was shot six times from behind. He was hit once in a shoulder, once in the back, once in an elbow, twice in a leg and once in a hand, according to the attorney.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/16/darrien-hunt-shot-in-the-back-by-utah-police-says-family-attorney
http://gawker.com/autopsy-cops-shot-black-anime-cosplayer-four-times-in-1652268367

how do you shoot someone six times in the back while they are attacking you after asking you for a ride?

...Wait a minute what?! You know, scratch what I said about non-compliance because now I really do get the feeling the cops raised their guns as the first course of action, thus prompting the running.

Vans said, January 15, 2014, 10:25:02 pm

I'm also under the impression that people keep neglecting data from the game, do you guys know how PotS made his original characters? He actually studied every single game he referenced, down to the core. Doing this properly requires understanding how the original system was made, not just winging it.

Last Edit: November 28, 2014, 02:34:07 am by Alpaca-San

Ryūku Tsukuyomi

Re: Cops shoot, kill black Mugen cosplayer

#25 November 28, 2014, 03:13:00 am

Is death penalty still in action in this country? Cuz I think two guys need to be fried alive.

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Neocide

Re: Cops shoot, kill black Mugen cosplayer

#26 November 28, 2014, 03:24:41 am

No cupcakes 4 u

yea that was fucked no any other way about it, I don't see why they didn't have a tasers for this, just to slow him down in general, or at least talk to the guy. This is horrible. It's obvious they need to reestablish some new way of training cops and\ or giving them bigger psyche and personality tests before they let these people out on the streets to protect us, this is getting ridiculous.

Also sad that in this day and age that color plays such a huge part in how people view things in my country, especially when so many people try to claim the US as the best place to live.

Duos

Re: Cops shoot, kill black Mugen cosplayer

#27 November 28, 2014, 03:31:04 am

Neocide said, November 28, 2014, 03:24:41 am

I don't see why they didn't have a tasers for this

You don't? I thought it was pretty clear to me that they wanted to shoot a young black man because that's what these kind of sub human "cops" like to do.

タイタニックリバース

Re: Cops shoot, kill black Mugen cosplayer

#28 November 28, 2014, 03:35:20 am

"Do you know what does it mean ?"

This is just stupid. I miss when cops were heroes and not military troops acting like every misdemeanor deserves being shot...

Expect nothing, but remeber everything.+ I am tired. Future spot for Doraemon in MvC picture, the second I learn to create it. (Even further: Pepsiman for Mvc picture.) Insert random Doraemon anime .gif. (Also, Pac-Man Delta whaling on a MLP character .gif........) Now, Wipeout....... OTHER STUFF? Needs blue SSB 64 Mario in tornado .gif......... Add Super Mario Fighters 3 sprite here........ Also, now doing KFA stuff...

Legendary DeMoNk@I

Re: Cops shoot, kill black Mugen cosplayer

#29 November 28, 2014, 05:26:04 am

The Visionary

They could have used tasers or called for back up and rubber bullet his ass down in that situation. This is the same crap that happened with a bigger black guy with a sword years back and they hosed em down and everything and didnt have to kill him (AND he was black)

so i find it total bullshit when its like cops dont have any other ways of taking a person down. plus they can always shoot em in the legs to take them down. UNLESS the mad man is pumped up with drugs and cant feel shit TRUST they going down from being shot in the damn legs or tased.

If hes actually shooting at cops with a firearm then yes by all means blow his head off!

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Jesuszilla

Re: Cops shoot, kill black Mugen cosplayer

#30 November 28, 2014, 05:31:27 am

I'm a fuffy.

Iced said, November 28, 2014, 01:29:54 am

this is legal:
[strawman]

uh-huh, in which states? and are those photos from the same state this took place in?

This whole thing is HORRIBLE and screw the cops for being dumb racist cunts, but it really pisses me off when you make really fucking stupid statements/comparisons like that.

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It must be really awful being so ridiculous.
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Last Edit: November 28, 2014, 05:45:56 am by Jesuszilla

kakkoii superhero

Re: Cops shoot, kill black Mugen cosplayer

#31 November 28, 2014, 05:42:43 am

all is love in fair and war

cosplaying Samurai Champloo, is Not dress up as samurai...

Iced said, November 28, 2014, 12:29:38 am

Guys, running from the cops does not allow them to kill you. Lethal force is supposed to only be used if you are presenting a threat to someone, not if you arent obeying them.

well don't generalized that rule when you visit other countries... in many countries, you'll be shot by the police when you run away, by the point they can't catch up to your speed, they'll reach their gun for sure.
since they are not well trained in shooting either, probably the bullet would hit your back instead of your leg, taking more shots than necessary because they are not confident with their aim, so you end up dead .

feel free to disagree, but when your life in the line, it is worthy to prove a point?

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Re: Cops shoot, kill black Mugen cosplayer

#32 November 28, 2014, 05:48:51 am

"In case you're wondering, you've lost."

Iced said, November 28, 2014, 01:29:54 am

...

@HQ:

this is legal:

Let me guess...this was from my good-ol' home state of TX...*sigh* Even if it wasn't I really REALLY hate these gun-happy idiots who seem to think they NEED their guns to be justifiably safe. Oh, and I guess if they point said-guns at police then they are now the threat they NEED guns to protect themselves against. UGH! I just...I HATE guns! ARG! I hate that we are having to have discussions more and MORE about them and the problems they cause...this shit is SERIOUSLY getting outta control. And with all the talks of the public loosing faith in the police, I think I'm leaning more and more that way.

Neocide

Re: Cops shoot, kill black Mugen cosplayer

#33 November 28, 2014, 06:05:45 am

No cupcakes 4 u

there is nothing wrong with guns, like the saying goes, guns don't kill people, people kill people. Although I don't see a reason to go to a coffee shop with your gun, that's just silly. Again it's not the gun's fault, just the dumb ass with it.

Toonar12X

Re: Cops shoot, kill black Mugen cosplayer

#34 November 28, 2014, 06:15:25 am

stuck inside my imagination

point and case. it is pointless to kill a man who runs away, let alone shoot him on his back. if we don't change, or at least modify the curriculum of certain things, it can lead to many consequences, or in this case... many fatal consequences.

DKDC

Re: Cops shoot, kill black Mugen cosplayer

#35 November 28, 2014, 09:28:23 am

kakkoii superhero said, November 28, 2014, 05:42:43 am

well don't generalized that rule when you visit other countries... in many countries, you'll be shot by the police when you run away, by the point they can't catch up to your speed, they'll reach their gun for sure.

Sorry, we're talking about a civilized country here. In a civilized country, cops aren't supposed to use lethal force unless someone's life is directly threatened.

If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.

Iced

Re: Cops shoot, kill black Mugen cosplayer

#36 November 28, 2014, 09:55:20 am

does this look like the face of mercy?

Jesuszilla said, November 28, 2014, 05:31:27 am

Iced said, November 28, 2014, 01:29:54 am
this is legal:
[strawman]

uh-huh, in which states? and are those photos from the same state this took place in?

This whole thing is HORRIBLE and screw the cops for being dumb racist cunts, but it really pisses me off when you make really fucking stupid statements/comparisons like that.

yes those are photos from utah, the same state it took place in.
Maybe you should stop being "pissed off" and just google it.

https://www.google.pt/search?q=utah+open+carry&client=firefox-a&hs=bkd&rls=org.mozilla:pt-PT:official&channel=sb&biw=1400&bih=763&tbm=isch&source=lnms&sa=X&ei=pTZ4VKTQHY6P7AaslYCYDg&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAg
Its the same state where Anita sarkesian refused to give a lecture until open carry was denied in a university.

Utah has open carry and a bunch of people open carry to prove a point. Its also the state where the second cause of death by shooting is "Cop".http://www.sltrib.com/news/1842489-155/killings-by-utah-police-outpacing-gang

So, my comparisons are extremely accurate. .

Also utah.

kakkoii superhero said, November 28, 2014, 05:42:43 am

cosplaying Samurai Champloo, is Not dress up as samurai...
well don't generalized that rule when you visit other countries... in many countries, you'll be shot by the police when you run away, by the point they can't catch up to your speed, they'll reach their gun for sure.
since they are not well trained in shooting either, probably the bullet would hit your back instead of your leg, taking more shots than necessary because they are not confident with their aim, so you end up dead .

feel free to disagree, but when your life in the line, it is worthy to prove a point?

Indonesia is kind of an extreme case, dude.

You cant really compare the civilian freedom there it to other countries.
:\
Their political reality grants the cops and government permission to do almost anything:
ie:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Act_of_Killing

This all happened in Utah, America, where like other first world countries the police arent allowed to kill just because they want to stop you.

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Last Edit: November 28, 2014, 11:11:48 am by Iced

Segatron

Re: Cops shoot, kill black Mugen cosplayer

#37 November 28, 2014, 12:19:33 pm

MUGEN IS MY LIFE /I promise from not to derail.
Online

First the Ferguson and now this.....
This is so Fucking Wrong MAN....but you have to drop the weapon even if it not real.....And Yeah misuse of power and authority and ....I dont kn0w what to say

Esaka rules Beat that.... Or Just Get outta my way

O Ilusionista

Re: Cops shoot, kill black Mugen cosplayer

#38 November 28, 2014, 01:03:53 pm

11 years of MFG and counting :)

kakkoii superhero said, November 28, 2014, 05:42:43 am

cosplaying Samurai Champloo, is Not dress up as samurai...

Iced said, November 28, 2014, 12:29:38 am
Guys, running from the cops does not allow them to kill you. Lethal force is supposed to only be used if you are presenting a threat to someone, not if you arent obeying them.

well don't generalized that rule when you visit other countries... in many countries, you'll be shot by the police when you run away, by the point they can't catch up to your speed, they'll reach their gun for sure.
since they are not well trained in shooting either, probably the bullet would hit your back instead of your leg, taking more shots than necessary because they are not confident with their aim, so you end up dead .

feel free to disagree, but when your life in the line, it is worthy to prove a point?

Kakkoii has a point there. For example, here in Brazil, if a cop is chasing you, or just say to you to hold it or even get closer to you and you run away...is like signing a guilty sentence. They will chase you and use brute force or even shot you, but in non-letal areas like legs if its needed. For sure, cops are not the same and some will have more patience and some not. And some can even shot you to dead (which is not legal).

Here, civils can have guns, but unless you work with security, you can't carry a gun in public areas - specially if its loaded. If you need to transport a gun, you will need to unload it first. And we aren't allowed to carry what we call "white weapons" (knives or any bladed object) on the street too, even this point coming from a hole on our law - the law speaks about "Weapons" as "guns", and not all weapons. There is a non-official rule which says that any blade greater than 4cm is not allowed on public areas.

Rural workers who use things like sickles, axes, machetes need to carry such objects covered, protecting the blade. And if you walk in the street with a knife with the blade without protection (outside the sheath, for example) and some police find you, he will seize the gun and probably take you to the police station. And if you run, they will shoot. Because if you did nothing wrong, why would you run?

I think that the interpretation of this changes from country to country, but here you certainly would be shot. But of course, the fact that they fired 6 shots raises many suspicions. It is at least exaggerated use of police force.

A recent study of violence done here, the brazilian policed had killed more people in 5 years than the police of the United States (forgot the name) in 30 years.
http://ultimosegundo.ig.com.br/brasil/2014-11-10/no-brasil-seis-pessoas-sao-mortas-diariamente-por-policiais-mostra-anuario.html

Beta avaliable: http://brazilmugenteam.com/avengers/

Basara Dandy

Re: Cops shoot, kill black Mugen cosplayer

#39 November 28, 2014, 03:42:19 pm

Space Dandy wa uchuu wa Dandy de-aru

The Simplistic Fubini said, November 28, 2014, 01:55:07 am

Wow that's pretty shitty. This is straight up murder, no excuses.

...Am I the only one who expected this thread to be the newly renamed shit thread or some sort of joke?

I was expected this thread was merged with Ferguson-Missouri thread instead, since this is another "white cop kills a black guy" case just because racism

Normal WIPS - CF63 1/3 - Ideas - Anti-Gouki Project

Black Hatter

Re: Cops shoot, kill black Mugen cosplayer

#40 November 28, 2014, 03:58:32 pm

Official Digital Artist for Capcom vs SNK 3

Basara Dandy said, November 28, 2014, 03:42:19 pm

The Simplistic Fubini said, November 28, 2014, 01:55:07 am
Wow that's pretty shitty. This is straight up murder, no excuses.

...Am I the only one who expected this thread to be the newly renamed shit thread or some sort of joke?
I was expected this thread was merged with Ferguson-Missouri thread instead, since this is another "white cop kills a black guy" case just because racism

I don't see the point of that. Although both topics focus on a black guy being shot by white police, I think this one merits its own thread, IMO.
Based on what I've read up till now from the replies, although the dude wasn't doing anything life threating or wrong, I still think he should have dropped his toy katana. But overall, it really is straight-up murder for racial reasons IMO.

Kind of reminds me of how a drug dealer in a anthropology book on drug dealing (In Search of Respect by Phillipe Bourgeois, IIRC) described cops who patrol the El Barrio neigbourhood in New York: Animals with badges, and a uniform, not humans.

Really, really depressing.

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Niitris

Re: Cops shoot, kill black Mugen cosplayer

#41 November 28, 2014, 04:02:44 pm

Neocide said, November 28, 2014, 06:05:45 am

there is nothing wrong with guns, like the saying goes, guns don't kill people, people kill people. Although I don't see a reason to go to a coffee shop with your gun, that's just silly. Again it's not the gun's fault, just the dumb ass with it.

Well, there seems to be too many dumbasses lately.

Pretty safe to say where I stand on this. Guns are not anything to be taken lightly despite US pop media implying otherwise, and sometimes people underestimate just how powerful firearms actually are until they (or someone they know) gets into a situation that involves using one. I don't think they should be in the hands of average civilians or even officers for that matter. I mean it's not like some people become cops just for the perks, like the day they can use their gun against a "rebel," whether it's by intimidation or actual usage. They may be "qualified" to own one, but that doesn't mean that they have the mental fortitude to use one responsibly (recent examples being proof of irresponsible gun use). More reasonably, there should certainly be harsher regulations so that firearms aren't an absolute necessity for officers to protect themselves.

I'd like to think that as politicians of an affluent nation that the government would know better, so much for that.

Last Edit: November 28, 2014, 04:06:00 pm by Niitris

Gritsmaster

Re: Cops shoot, kill black Mugen cosplayer

#42 November 28, 2014, 04:10:42 pm

#1 Boss Lady

Good point, but just a reminder that we used to be beaten, lynched from trees, and set on fire. The issue isn't the gun itself, it's the fact that killing innocent black civilians is apparently considered okay by the government as long as you have a badge.

Now would cops be setting people on fire if we took away guns? Probably not, but oh they would beat us. To death, I'm sure. The root of the problem is the inherent racism that plagues the States (and the world, for tht matter). I think gun rights are a relative non-issue in comparison altogeter.

DKDC

Re: Cops shoot, kill black Mugen cosplayer

#43 November 28, 2014, 05:20:01 pm

O Ilusionista said, November 28, 2014, 01:03:53 pm

kakkoii superhero said, November 28, 2014, 05:42:43 am
[...]
[...]

Hey, remember when it was sensible to go "oh that's nothing, we have always had it worse in our country, your new problems are very small in comparison" ? Yeah, me neither, because it never was.
There's no reason to compare USA to other countries, be it Brazil or Africa or whatever. The point is that it's not supposed to happen there. Of course there are countries where violence is a more day-to-day thing, with drug cartels or tyrannical police force or whatever. But the thing is that when it's not supposed to be the case in a certain country, the fact that it's slowly turning into it is a very bad thing.

If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.

Last Edit: November 28, 2014, 05:23:35 pm by DKDC

kakkoii superhero

Re: Cops shoot, kill black Mugen cosplayer

#44 November 28, 2014, 05:25:30 pm

all is love in fair and war

DKDC said, November 28, 2014, 09:28:23 am

kakkoii superhero said, November 28, 2014, 05:42:43 am
well don't generalized that rule when you visit other countries... in many countries, you'll be shot by the police when you run away, by the point they can't catch up to your speed, they'll reach their gun for sure.
Sorry, we're talking about a civilized country here. In a civilized country, cops aren't supposed to use lethal force unless someone's life is directly threatened.

well he is dead, happened in civilized country, no?
if you're in his position, do you want to test how great the quality of local law enforcement, to prove your point of how civilized your country is, betting on your life by running away from them while carrying a toy sword, or a toygun?

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Hephaistos31

Re: Cops shoot, kill black Mugen cosplayer

#45 November 28, 2014, 05:30:42 pm

Why everyone is mad because this kid was BLACK.
If he was WHITE, RED OR YELLOW OR PINK, with the exact same behaviour, you don't think the cop would have open the fire on him?!?

DKDC

Re: Cops shoot, kill black Mugen cosplayer

#46 November 28, 2014, 05:31:36 pm

kakkoii superhero said, November 28, 2014, 05:25:30 pm

well he is dead, happened in civilized country, no?

whoosh
Why do you think there are riots in Ferguson and people are getting up in arms about this one

If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.

Iced

Re: Cops shoot, kill black Mugen cosplayer

#47 November 28, 2014, 05:34:47 pm

does this look like the face of mercy?

Hephaistos31 said, November 28, 2014, 05:30:42 pm

Why everyone is mad because this kid was BLACK.
If he was WHITE with the exact same behaviour, you don't think the cop would have open the fire on him?!?

If they shot a white kid running from them scared with six shots in the back that didnt pose any threat to anyone they would still be murderers.

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Hephaistos31

Re: Cops shoot, kill black Mugen cosplayer

#48 November 28, 2014, 05:36:03 pm

Ok. So basically the point is about guns that are allowed or not, right?

Iced

Re: Cops shoot, kill black Mugen cosplayer

#49 November 28, 2014, 05:37:37 pm

does this look like the face of mercy?

... you probably should read the article before trying to capitalize random words and act like you have a point.
The point is that they are shooting people in order to stop them. And most of the time they do that to black people, having become the second cause for shooting death in Utah.

The point is also that they killed this black dude , claimed he was being a threat to them and turns out all the shots are on his back and he was far away from them running scared at the time.

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kakkoii superhero

Re: Cops shoot, kill black Mugen cosplayer

#50 November 28, 2014, 05:43:14 pm

all is love in fair and war

Iced said, November 28, 2014, 09:55:20 am

kakkoii superhero said, November 28, 2014, 05:42:43 am
cosplaying Samurai Champloo, is Not dress up as samurai...
well don't generalized that rule when you visit other countries... in many countries, you'll be shot by the police when you run away, by the point they can't catch up to your speed, they'll reach their gun for sure.
since they are not well trained in shooting either, probably the bullet would hit your back instead of your leg, taking more shots than necessary because they are not confident with their aim, so you end up dead .

feel free to disagree, but when your life in the line, it is worthy to prove a point?

Indonesia is kind of an extreme case, dude.

You cant really compare the civilian freedom there it to other countries.
:\
Their political reality grants the cops and government permission to do almost anything:
ie:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Act_of_Killing

This all happened in Utah, America, where like other first world countries the police arent allowed to kill just because they want to stop you.

The Act of Killing (Indonesian: Jagal, meaning "Butcher") is a 2012 documentary film about the Indonesian killings of 1965–66
dude what the hell, it was from another era, it's the time when the world was allergic to communism, and by us doing so, America gave us a thumbs up as fellow anti communist.

we don't do killing anymore since then, but still running away from cop is a big no, not dropping whatever you have in your hand when ordered by cop is another no, so running away with your stuff from cops will get you shot, they will try to hit you on your leg, but they might miss, especially since suicide bombers might do the same thing you do running away with something on their hand.

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kakkoii superhero

Re: Cops shoot, kill black Mugen cosplayer

#51 November 28, 2014, 05:46:33 pm

all is love in fair and war

DKDC said, November 28, 2014, 05:31:36 pm

kakkoii superhero said, November 28, 2014, 05:25:30 pm
well he is dead, happened in civilized country, no?
whoosh
Why do you think there are riots in Ferguson and people are getting up in arms about this one

yeah, and does it matter if you're already dead? is it worthy to try just to find out how civilized your local cops?

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Iced

Re: Cops shoot, kill black Mugen cosplayer

#52 November 28, 2014, 05:53:02 pm

does this look like the face of mercy?

kakkoii superhero said, November 28, 2014, 05:43:14 pm

Iced said, November 28, 2014, 09:55:20 am

Indonesia is kind of an extreme case, dude.

You cant really compare the civilian freedom there it to other countries.
:\
Their political reality grants the cops and government permission to do almost anything:
ie:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Act_of_Killing

This all happened in Utah, America, where like other first world countries the police arent allowed to kill just because they want to stop you.

The Act of Killing (Indonesian: Jagal, meaning "Butcher") is a 2012 documentary film about the Indonesian killings of 1965–66
dude what the hell, it was from another era, it's the time when the world was allergic to communism, and by us doing so, America gave us a thumbs up as fellow anti communist.

we don't do killing anymore since then, but still running away from cop is a big no, not dropping whatever you have in your hand when ordered by cop is another no, so running away with your stuff from cops will get you shot, they will try to hit you on your leg, but they might miss, especially since suicide bombers might do the same thing you do running away with something on their hand.

In the documentary from 2012 they still brag about killing whoever they want in modern day and go on about how that is how the indonesian government works, showing themselves as heroes of the people( it gets fucking surreal when they start reenacting the killings for the camera ) . Which you reflect when you talk about how the cops can shoot you down if you run away.
See in most countries the idea of shooting someone down only happens when they are a threat to someone else, not when the cops are just persecuting you, they use other weapons if possible on those and tackle them.
If they could just blow you away there wouldnt be so many cop chases. No one is discovering those things then, thats something they know.. Cops arent supposed to kill you.

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Last Edit: November 28, 2014, 05:59:46 pm by Iced

Bastard Mami

Re: Cops shoot, kill black Mugen cosplayer

#53 November 28, 2014, 06:03:15 pm

this just makes me wonder how common is the "ley fuga" , "runaway law" which basically states that if you scape form the police/army they can shoot you dead; mexico wise, the police can't apply it, but the army can, so if there is a checkpoint with soldiers and you don't stop they have the legal right to shoot you dead.

kakkoii superhero

Re: Cops shoot, kill black Mugen cosplayer

#54 November 28, 2014, 06:05:27 pm

all is love in fair and war

doesn't happen in reality Iced, we don't live in martial law, cops won't try to kill people that run away from them, they will try to stop them from running, but when both parties are running and the cops are chasing while shooting, there is a chance you're being shot on the back when they try to aim for your legs or your butt.
in what condition cop would pull out their gun, it might be different from case to case, but I think, if our policemen meet somebody who carry a knife or a sword, and they run away with it after being ordered to stop and put their knife down, I bet they will reach for their gun at some point during the chase, they will shoot to the air once, and then the next shot would be pointed to the suspect, when the suspect wears earplugs... then...

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Legendary DeMoNk@I

Re: Cops shoot, kill black Mugen cosplayer

#55 November 28, 2014, 08:11:09 pm

The Visionary

@kakkoii superhero

The thing thats bad here in the US is more so if you are of a certain race at the "wrong place, wrong time" and wrong cops and you have your hands up and clearly not armed you could be shot down anyway. A black Or Latino man being pulled over by the cops because of a simple tail light out could be his last day living. You go to get your license and you could be shot and killed "on accident" anyway because they "thought" you were reaching for a gun. This is the growing BS happening with cops. This is the kind of crap that happens here in the US thats twisted and people are fed up with it. These cops are not being punished enough or at all now as any civilian would for killing one of them "because they felt threatened" or just assumed wrong on a cops actions. Its out of control now

But anyway yeah just like this recent case here below.....I'm curious to see what justifies being shot at with his baby daughter because the cop thought he had a weapon. He wasn't running and whats worse he had his child in the car. Most of these cops now are being reckless and have less of a conscious on the decisions they make because they know much isn't going to happen to them if they screw up badly killing someone especially if they are black. Its just a shitty reality that will be here to stay in the US for a long time until something changes with our justice system vs the police

http://thegrio.com/2014/11/26/man-shot-police-daughter/

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Last Edit: November 28, 2014, 08:18:41 pm by Legendary DeMoNk@I

O Ilusionista

Re: Cops shoot, kill black Mugen cosplayer

#56 November 28, 2014, 08:34:50 pm

11 years of MFG and counting :)

DKDC said, November 28, 2014, 05:20:01 pm

Hey, remember when it was sensible to go "oh that's nothing, we have always had it worse in our country, your new problems are very small in comparison" ? Yeah, me neither, because it never was.
There's no reason to compare USA to other countries, be it Brazil or Africa or whatever. The point is that it's not supposed to happen there. Of course there are countries where violence is a more day-to-day thing, with drug cartels or tyrannical police force or whatever. But the thing is that when it's not supposed to be the case in a certain country, the fact that it's slowly turning into it is a very bad thing.

But I never said something like "oh that's nothing, we have always had it worse in our country, your new problems are very small in comparison". I was explaining how things are in my country, just that. Don't connect dots that should not be connected. I would never use that statement, because it would be the Falacy of the Less Important (or something like that, in english).

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Hephaistos31

Re: Cops shoot, kill black Mugen cosplayer

#57 November 28, 2014, 09:20:08 pm

Hum, Thanks for your answer, Iced.

Indeed, I've not read the document, because I've seen stuff at TV (The video of the policeman) speaking about the incident.
So I think my point of view of the situation was... Incredibly outdated.

I've spoken too fast, because I was thinking that the discussion was turning about some "racial" stuff for no reason (because in my mind it was legitimate defense), but I was not aware that indeed the "racial" stuff was the reality..

So I'll read carefully the document and the thread more carefully. It's my bad.

EDIT: WOW WOW WOW. I'm not EVEN speaking of the same story it seems ah ah omg.
How Idiot I look here.

Last Edit: November 28, 2014, 09:27:53 pm by Hephaistos31

Jesuszilla

Re: Cops shoot, kill black Mugen cosplayer

#58 December 08, 2014, 07:19:48 pm

I'm a fuffy.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/11/no-charges-for-utah-cops-who-shot-man-holding-cosplay-sword-six-times-in-back/

No charges. Why.

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It must be really awful being so ridiculous.
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Alpaca-San

Re: Cops shoot, kill black Mugen cosplayer

#59 December 08, 2014, 08:01:16 pm

I bite the faces of people who don't wanna be cool

Because the benefits of being an officer appear to include health, dental, and if you by chance end up killing a minority the legal system will have your back.

Vans said, January 15, 2014, 10:25:02 pm

I'm also under the impression that people keep neglecting data from the game, do you guys know how PotS made his original characters? He actually studied every single game he referenced, down to the core. Doing this properly requires understanding how the original system was made, not just winging it.

Алексей

Re: Cops shoot, kill black Mugen cosplayer

#60 December 08, 2014, 08:07:19 pm

Hey.
Online

I'm going to respond to this imagining everyone as grey blobs because color is not the issue here. First off, this was a chain reaction. Even if the cosplayer had earbuds in, was blasting music, he still had his eyes to notice the cops and the instinct to run from them. I'm not saying he was guilty of anything, but innocent people don't run from the cops. It's common knowledge. You don't even have to be smart to know not to do that. Next situation, he could have just dropped his weapon to show that he wasn't a threat.

Then there's the other side as I'm considering both. The cops shot him because he ran... or was black. I'm not the cops. I don't know what was on their minds at the time. I agree that shooting is not the way to go with a running suspect, but it's possible that had he still been holding the sword that they thought was real, they obviously wouldn't want to get close to it, thus keeping their distance.

In the end, it could have saved his life if he didn't run. Seeing how he did, the cops could have reacted better than shooting him. In other words, there's no point in taking a side here. There's not enough facts to really justify one thing over the other.

-[Все слова это только слова.]-

Umezono

Re: Cops shoot, kill black Mugen cosplayer

#61 December 08, 2014, 08:30:08 pm

i will meditate and then write a really epic post
jai ho

Алексей said, December 08, 2014, 08:07:19 pm

I'm going to respond to this imagining everyone as grey blobs because color is not the issue here. First off, this was a chain reaction. Even if the cosplayer had earbuds in, was blasting music, he still had his eyes to notice the cops and the instinct to run from them. I'm not saying he was guilty of anything, but innocent people don't run from the cops. It's common knowledge. You don't even have to be smart to know not to do that. Next situation, he could have just dropped his weapon to show that he wasn't a threat.

Then there's the other side as I'm considering both. The cops shot him because he ran... or was black. I'm not the cops. I don't know what was on their minds at the time. I agree that shooting is not the way to go with a running suspect, but it's possible that had he still been holding the sword that they thought was real, they obviously wouldn't want to get close to it, thus keeping their distance.

In the end, it could have saved his life if he didn't run. Seeing how he did, the cops could have reacted better than shooting him. In other words, there's no point in taking a side here. There's not enough facts to really justify one thing over the other.

i dont think you read the article closely- it says he ran after they started firing at him. he was swinging around the sword or whatever so they took it as a threat and started firing.

from statements he was "laughing and smiling and swinging it towards officers, tho it was a fake cosplay sword." to the officers he appeared violent, and they believed the sword was real. so they shot him cause they thought he might "hack the first person he saw"

i think its clear it would not have happened had he not run, and they seem to want to establish it wouldnt have happened he not acted like a punk- tho this is not verified. witness reports say he "unsheathed" the sword but did not swing it. but either way, it does not excuse what happened.

Quote

Buhman said the police didn’t have enough time to attempt nonlethal force because the 37-second incident escalated so quickly and without provocation.

“The officers had to do with what was most immediately available to them — that was their firearms,” Buhman said.

didnt have time to attempt nonlethal force so they killed him, lol

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Bizarro Santamorphman

Re: Cops shoot, kill black Mugen cosplayer

#62 December 08, 2014, 08:34:19 pm

Christmas isn't about getting into clubs, Zorak!

The same witness who said Hunt only unsheathed the sword was quoted by the police as saying Hunt was swinging it at police, and said witness was aghast at the police misreporting their testimony.

So clearly everything is on the up and up here, no need to get so outraged, jeez, it's Hunt's fault he's dead, now can we talk about the real problem here, black on black crime?

Алексей

Re: Cops shoot, kill black Mugen cosplayer

#63 December 08, 2014, 08:49:29 pm

Hey.
Online

Umezono said, December 08, 2014, 08:30:08 pm

i dont think you read the article closely- it says he ran after they started firing at him. he was swinging around the sword or whatever so they took it as a threat and started firing.

from statements he was "laughing and smiling and swinging it towards officers, tho it was a fake cosplay sword." to the officers he appeared violent, and they believed the sword was real. so they shot him cause they thought he might "hack the first person he saw"

i think its clear it would not have happened had he not run, and they seem to want to establish it wouldnt have happened he not acted like a punk- tho this is not verified. witness reports say he "unsheathed" the sword but did not swing it. but either way, it does not excuse what happened.

Quote
Buhman said the police didn’t have enough time to attempt nonlethal force because the 37-second incident escalated so quickly and without provocation.

“The officers had to do with what was most immediately available to them — that was their firearms,” Buhman said.

didnt have time to attempt nonlethal force so they killed him, lol

Erm, you're right about that. I didn't read the article closely enough. Hmm, well if they were the first to take action then it all falls to them and my statement(s) are rendered null and void, lol. Welp, I feel dumb. Still, in a way my point still sort of stands on one wobbly leg. There's the fact that Hunt had his sword pointed at cops. Cosplay or not, that's just not something you do. They're usually serious about their jobs and would easily take that as a threat. I can't really side with the hate-crime side of things though.

-[Все слова это только слова.]-

DKDC

Re: Cops shoot, kill black Mugen cosplayer

#64 December 08, 2014, 08:54:51 pm

Алексей said, December 08, 2014, 08:49:29 pm

There's the fact that Hunt had his sword pointed at cops.

That's a bogus thing to say too.
The thing is that we don't know exactly what happened. JMM just pointed out the witness complained his statement was misrepresented by the police. For all we know, the guy could very well have unsheathed his sword to show it to the policemen, so they would see it was a toy sword and not sharp. This would be pretty logical, and it would fit the witness report. (of course it would have been smarter to simply give the sheathed sword to the cops so they would see for themselves and not take it as a threat, but if you know it's a toy it's easy to think you can just show them by pulling it out yourself)
Saying he was "pointing it at the cops" is a big assumption to make (a biased one) just from reading that it was unsheathed.

He was smiling and talking, he didn't think it was serious, he pulled the sword to show that it was a toy, they overreacted and drew their gun because they didn't understand that a fake sword can't possibly "hack people up", possibly immediately shot at him, he freaked out and bolted, they pursued.

If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.

Last Edit: December 08, 2014, 08:59:36 pm by DKDC

Алексей

Re: Cops shoot, kill black Mugen cosplayer

#65 December 08, 2014, 09:31:33 pm

Hey.
Online

DKDC said, December 08, 2014, 08:54:51 pm

That's a bogus thing to say too.
The thing is that we don't know exactly what happened. JMM just pointed out the witness complained his statement was misrepresented by the police. For all we know, the guy could very well have unsheathed his sword to show it to the policemen, so they would see it was a toy sword and not sharp. This would be pretty logical, and it would fit the witness report. (of course it would have been smarter to simply give the sheathed sword to the cops so they would see for themselves and not take it as a threat, but if you know it's a toy it's easy to think you can just show them by pulling it out yourself)
Saying he was "pointing it at the cops" is a big assumption to make (a biased one) just from reading that it was unsheathed.

He was smiling and talking, he didn't think it was serious, he pulled the sword to show that it was a toy, they overreacted and drew their gun because they didn't understand that a fake sword can't possibly "hack people up", possibly immediately shot at him, he freaked out and bolted, they pursued.

Understandable, but I'm mainly speaking as if I had put myself in Hunt's shoes. Not trying to be biased towards any one side really. I'm just saying that it's definitely not a hate crime, which is what most people usually resort to when they see that it was a black kid who was the victim. To me, unsheathing a sword means that you're removing it from the sheath. Usually, this motion is a swing followed by a "ready" stance, which would be point the sword then at them. An assumption, yes, but like JMM said, there's no real facts for that since the police misrepresented the witness. So, that doesn't mean it's not that either. It just means that we don't know.

I think they still understood that a fake sword couldn't do that, but just didn't know that it was fake. We're also assuming the initial interaction was done from some distance. If the cops did think that there was threat, they would have apprehended Hunt differently. For example, if there was no sword involved.

-[Все слова это только слова.]-

Iced

Re: Cops shoot, kill black Mugen cosplayer

#66 December 08, 2014, 09:55:45 pm

does this look like the face of mercy?

Quote

I think they still understood that a fake sword couldn't do that, but just didn't know that it was fake. We're also assuming the initial interaction was done from some distance. If the cops did think that there was threat, they would have apprehended Hunt differently. For example, if there was no sword involved.

Dunno if we can assume that considering there is this photo from when he asked them for a ride.

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GentleOne

Re: Cops shoot, kill black Mugen cosplayer

#67 December 08, 2014, 11:21:06 pm

Алексей said, December 08, 2014, 09:31:33 pm

Understandable, but I'm mainly speaking as if I had put myself in Hunt's shoes. Not trying to be biased towards any one side really. I'm just saying that it's definitely not a hate crime, which is what most people usually resort to when they see that it was a black kid who was the victim. To me, unsheathing a sword means that you're removing it from the sheath. Usually, this motion is a swing followed by a "ready" stance, which would be point the sword then at them. An assumption, yes, but like JMM said, there's no real facts for that since the police misrepresented the witness. So, that doesn't mean it's not that either. It just means that we don't know.

First, I think you're going into this putting the white-black issue at the fore and not the details of the case at all. Ignore that for now because I wanted to highlight something you said here:

Алексей said, December 08, 2014, 09:31:33 pm

To me, unsheathing a sword means that you're removing it from the sheath. Usually, this motion is a swing followed by a "ready" stance, which would be point the sword then at them. An assumption, yes...

I'd like to point out that the witness himself wanted to make a clear differentiation between "unsheathing" a sword and swinging it at, or pointing it at, anyone.
Secondly, when has the act of unsheathing a sword automatically implied pointing it at someone?
Thirdly, besides not entirely discerning what you mean by, 'the unsheathing motion being a swing,' you automatically jump to, "followed by a "ready" stance, which would be point the sword then at them," which to me sounds forced and honestly, absurd. It bears the question, "Are you differentiating the actual act of "unsheathing" from what it is "followed by""?
Fourthly, just to make sure this is clear, there are things called "sword shows" where people unsheathe their swords all the time and show them to customers without pointing them at anyone or going into a ready stance (and I'd say, without swinging them too unless our definitions of "swing" happen to be different).

Last Edit: December 08, 2014, 11:45:16 pm by GentleOne

Jesuszilla

Re: Cops shoot, kill black Mugen cosplayer

#68 December 08, 2014, 11:27:04 pm

I'm a fuffy.

For the record, I don't give a fuck if the kid was black. I'm saying this is fucked up because that was unnecessary use of force.

http://www.trinitymugen.net
It must be really awful being so ridiculous.
The best way to reach me is through PM at TM, IRC, or Skype. Capcom expert, feel free to ask for MUGEN help.

SlenderMan

Re: Cops shoot, kill black Mugen cosplayer

#69 December 08, 2014, 11:44:09 pm

I'm behind you!!!

in this day and age you never know what fucked up people will do so cops are always on edge. brandishing and admittedly fake sword doesn't mean they'd automatically know it was. since 9/11, Boston Marathon bombing, and a shitlist of crazy shit cops take shit very seriously so this guy should not have been wielding a sword out in public unless he was at an event himself. walking around by your lonesome with a sword not only looks suspicious but it looks dangerous. He didn't need to die but had he not had the sword I doubt the cops would've shot.

Join at... http://stormex.webs.com/

GentleOne

Re: Cops shoot, kill black Mugen cosplayer

#70 December 08, 2014, 11:53:16 pm

SlenderMan said, December 08, 2014, 11:44:09 pm

in this day and age you never know what fucked up people will do so cops are always on edge.

As a counter, you also never know what cops are willing to do because they're so "on edge" (or even malicious). When innocent people lose their lives when they shouldn't, the fault is on the officers, and being "on edge" should never be an excuse; people are dying because of these overreactions; let's not forget that.
Really, how do you think your parents would have reacted if the scenario was that an on "edge cop" shot you "because he thought you had a gun," or do I need to find articles where that exact ridiculous crap has happened?

SlenderMan said, December 08, 2014, 11:44:09 pm

brandishing and admittedly fake sword doesn't mean they'd automatically know it was. since 9/11, Boston Marathon bombing, and a shitlist of crazy shit cops take shit very seriously so this guy should not have been wielding a sword out in public unless he was at an event himself. walking around by your lonesome with a sword not only looks suspicious but it looks dangerous. He didn't need to die but had he not had the sword I doubt the cops would've shot.

As Iced mentioned Utah is an open carry state. It's kind of absurd to say that guns can be displayed openly, but a sword a kid had been walking around with alone causes such hoopla. He was walking alone having fun and minding his own business and there are videos and pictures to prove it. How can you even minutely imply that, 'it was his own fault for walking around with a sword,' on any level, when people walk around with AR-15s in public out there.

Last Edit: December 09, 2014, 12:01:24 am by GentleOne

DKDC

Re: Cops shoot, kill black Mugen cosplayer

#71 December 09, 2014, 12:08:34 am

GentleOne said, December 08, 2014, 11:53:16 pm

It's kind of absurd to say that guns can be displayed openly, but a sword a kid had been walking around with alone causes such hoopla.

Not to mention that on top of that, I'm pretty sure it wouldn't have made a lot of difference if it had been a gun instead of a sword that he pulled on the cops. "No, no, it's a fake, see ? Look what happens when I pull the trigg*shot in the back 7 times*" "... Oh, it was a cigarette lighter."

If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.

SlenderMan

Re: Cops shoot, kill black Mugen cosplayer

#72 December 09, 2014, 12:32:30 am

I'm behind you!!!

I'm not defending the cops by any means but the kid shouldn't have been walking around alone with the damn thing. Should've been at a convention. I've heard of people being told to put weapons away but never shot in the back. The cops handled the situation poorly and I think they need a permanent vacation from work as police officers. fired or laid off and put on retirement.

Join at... http://stormex.webs.com/

地獄の花

Re: Cops shoot, kill black Mugen cosplayer

#73 December 09, 2014, 12:47:59 am

maybe he unsheathed it to show the cops it was fake and not to attack someone.

DKDC

Re: Cops shoot, kill black Mugen cosplayer

#74 December 09, 2014, 12:56:20 am

SlenderMan said, December 09, 2014, 12:32:30 am

the kid shouldn't have been walking around alone with the damn thing.

There's a lot of things people shouldn't really do. This or something else, they can be minor or serious.
For a fake sword, this may have scared some people but it wasn't crazy serious and he wasn't swinging it around threatening people like it was real. And again, in an open carry state where people can see assault rifles, complaining about a sword is ridiculous.
For something he "shouldn't have done", it would have been reasonable for the cops to tell him off. But anything beyond that isn't his fault. The cops feeling threatened by that is a terrible excuse. Cops should have training to handle dangerous situations without shooting people in the back. Even if it had been a real sword, even if it had been a realistic-looking gun-shaped cigarette lighter, they should have had the training to handle this properly without freaking out, without resorting to shooting him in the back.
The guy was smiling and asking them for a ride, the next minute he's running for his life : they absolutely fucked up with something they said or did. Cops should have the training to not fuck up like that, either in how they talk or how they act. They're the ones with the guns and the right to shoot people in the back apparently, they should have training to not do that.

If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.

SlenderMan

Re: Cops shoot, kill black Mugen cosplayer

#75 December 09, 2014, 01:46:05 am

I'm behind you!!!

it's like they put any meathead in the force just to have some manpower and don't teach em shit. cops used to be honorable and assess the situation first..now it's shoot first and fuck the questions

Join at... http://stormex.webs.com/

Legendary DeMoNk@I

Re: Cops shoot, kill black Mugen cosplayer

#76 December 09, 2014, 02:26:45 am

The Visionary

smh mann..The cops said something to that kid to scare him or something happened im sure. because if he had a fake sword he shouldnt have felt that way. something sour happened. Those cops fucked up bad and shooting a civilian in the back like that just for running here in the US should be considered murder

I saw a video (on spike tv) of an old drunk white man on the side of the road waving around a rifle and he didnt get Murphy'ed to death (*check robocop1*) at all. 4 cop cars or so swarmed him and all they did was talk and talk to him,,,,,no one shot shit

Its a particular shitty pattern i keep seeing with these cops on a certain topic but im going to leave that alone....That pattern has to stop. Its beyond retarded now and way out of line and a lot of people of races are beginning to see it each time bad cop situations go viral here in the US....

I feel anyone that even looks close to latin or black or is that of ethnic decent should use their fucking heads and be smart on all levels so you dont give any one of those boneheaded cops a BS reason to shoot you or jump on you. Yeah you have rights but a lot of cops dont give a damn and are waiting for an excuse to fucking shoot you. Just like the recent black dude that got shot for a pill bottle being mistaken for a gun...

https://sites.google.com/site/demonkaimugen/

H Mr. Ton!

Re: Cops shoot, kill black Mugen cosplayer

#77 December 09, 2014, 02:57:07 am

Nori

By becoming a cop a person is putting themselves in a potentially life threatening situation on a daily basis, and they train for it. They shouldn't get to use the same level of "oh I was on edge" or "I was startled" as any average person when determining whether or not they're legit afraid for their life. They are trained and payed to exercise sharp judgement in high test situations, and this is far from high test. He wasn't dangerous at all, and any real attempt to subdue him or see if he was an actual threat would have likely resulted in his compliance, or at least a clarification that he was absolutely zero threat.

Like I could see a normal person being startled for about half a second here. Until they realized the guy was dressed up like a fuckin samurai, and was in no way raging.

The thing is the cops are Way out of control with this shit. They're killing people over nothing and getting away with it because they can. They just lie, and their lies suck, and are obviously lies. Something really has to be done about it at this point, because by now they know they can get away with just about whatever they want.

And this:
http://abcnews.go.com/US/court-oks-barring-high-iqs-cops/story?id=95836

Last Edit: December 09, 2014, 03:12:35 am by H Mr. Ton!

Legendary DeMoNk@I

Re: Cops shoot, kill black Mugen cosplayer

#78 December 09, 2014, 03:28:22 am

The Visionary

Yeah pretty much....Lies like "I feared for my life". By a man with no weapon what so ever

smh...That shit burns me up when i see that shit in the news. You are the COP. YOU have access for back up. YOU have a fucking gun. No excuse in that situation. Cops have many options to use to take a person down or stop them. If they didn't we wouldn't have shows like COPS on TV showing chase downs on foot. Killing a person is the last resort. SUPPOSEDLY. If they are now shooting harmless 12 year old kids IN A PLAYGROUND on some dumb shit something is seriously fucking wrong here. Folks cant justify that one in that type of environment at that....they didn't even talk the kid down, they just killed him. That was crazy^^

The whole AWESOME perk of law enforcement is calling for back up to better assess the situation before you kill somebody and they are actually innocent and harmless. If you gotta chase them down then chase them down WHILE calling for back up! Like Mr Tron said...they are trained for this shit and thats what pisses people off now seeing that crap in videos when they kill innocent civilians senselessly now.

https://sites.google.com/site/demonkaimugen/

Last Edit: December 10, 2014, 01:30:31 am by Legendary DeMoNk@I

Алексей

Re: Cops shoot, kill black Mugen cosplayer

#79 December 09, 2014, 08:49:33 pm

Hey.
Online

GentleOne said, December 08, 2014, 11:21:06 pm

I'd like to point out that the witness himself wanted to make a clear differentiation between "unsheathing" a sword and swinging it at, or pointing it at, anyone.
Secondly, when has the act of unsheathing a sword automatically implied pointing it at someone?
Thirdly, besides not entirely discerning what you mean by, 'the unsheathing motion being a swing,' you automatically jump to, "followed by a "ready" stance, which would be point the sword then at them," which to me sounds forced and honestly, absurd. It bears the question, "Are you differentiating the actual act of "unsheathing" from what it is "followed by""?
Fourthly, just to make sure this is clear, there are things called "sword shows" where people unsheathe their swords all the time and show them to customers without pointing them at anyone or going into a ready stance (and I'd say, without swinging them too unless our definitions of "swing" happen to be different).

You're misunderstanding me completely. I'm not saying that he did these things. I'm saying I could see him doing something like this as a friggin' cosplayer. I'm not accusing him of anything because I don't know anything for sure. This is why I said "To me" and not just "He swung the sword and pointed it at the cops." The facts we have are quite generally: Kid did something stupid with a sword in front of the cops to make him seem like he was dangerous. Had that action not happened, he'd have still been alive. Since he did not however, blame falls to the cops...

-[Все слова это только слова.]-

GentleOne

Re: Cops shoot, kill black Mugen cosplayer

#80 December 09, 2014, 11:31:21 pm

Алексей said, December 09, 2014, 08:49:33 pm

You're misunderstanding me completely.
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty
I'm not saying that he did these things. I'm saying I could see him doing something like this as a friggin' cosplayer. I'm not accusing him of anything because I don't know anything for sure. This is why I said "To me" and not just "He swung the sword and pointed it at the cops." The facts we have are quite generally: Kid did something stupid with a sword in front of the cops to make him seem like he was dangerous. Had that action not happened, he'd have still been alive. Since he did not however, blame falls to the cops...

You're actually misunderstanding me; I'm trying to understand why "unsheathing" a sword would mean those things you mentioned in your post... Maybe you didn't word it the way you meant to.
In a broader sense, I'm also asking why, 'you could see him doing something like swinging the sword at the officers,' especially considering that a witness completely rejected the affidavit's mis-transcription of his statement and totally denied having seen Hunt swing the sword at the officers; when the singular fact that happens to be in dispute is whether Hunt "simply unsheathed the sword" or "swung it at officers" (mind you, that's why I'm perplexed by your definition); Hunt knew the sword was blunted and likely wouldn't hurt the policemen even if it hit them; Hunt was dealing with armed officers and RAN from them which likely refutes any suicide by cop hypothetical, etc. -- all of this even, "as a friggin' cosplayer," to use your words.
Edit: I understand that you're implying that he may have been being a bit of a clown[weird cosplayer in the officer's eyes], but to me there's a HUGE difference between, 'swinging a sword at the officers in a threatening manner,' and 'unsheathing it and even going into a ready stance as a cosplayer,' especially given that he had allegedly been speaking to the officers for a few minutes
I'm also asking if you believe that the mis-transcription could have resulted from the recording officer's definition of "unsheathing" being similar to yours.

Алексей said, December 09, 2014, 08:49:33 pm

...Since he did not however, blame falls to the cops...

That fits my bias, I guess. I'm not trying to force you to say something you don't believe by the way.

Last Edit: December 10, 2014, 01:23:37 am by GentleOne

Bastard Mami

Re: Cops shoot, kill black Mugen cosplayer

#81 December 10, 2014, 01:44:59 am

just replying because for some reason thuis fucking topic always appears as unread whenever I check the forum's index even though no enw replies are getting added (unless gentel one is editing it every 5 minutes or so).

Алексей

Re: Cops shoot, kill black Mugen cosplayer

#82 December 10, 2014, 01:54:19 am

Hey.
Online

GentleOne said, December 09, 2014, 11:31:21 pm

You're actually misunderstanding me; I'm trying to understand why "unsheathing" a sword would mean those things you mentioned in your post... Maybe you didn't word it the way you meant to. In a broader sense, I'm also asking why, 'you could see him doing something like swinging the sword at the officers,' especially considering that a witness completely rejected the affidavit's mis-transcription of his statement and totally denied having seen Hunt swing the sword at the officers; when the singular fact that happens to be in dispute is whether Hunt "simply unsheathed the sword" or "swung it at officers" (mind you, that's why I'm perplexed by your definition); Hunt knew the sword was blunted and likely wouldn't hurt the policemen even if it hit them; Hunt was dealing with armed officers and RAN from them which likely refutes any suicide by cop hypothetical, etc. -- all of this even, "as a friggin' cosplayer," to use your words.
Edit: I understand that you're implying that he may have been being a bit of a clown[weird cosplayer in the officer's eyes], but to me there's a HUGE difference between, 'swinging a sword at the officers in a threatening manner,' and 'unsheathing it and even going into a ready stance as a cosplayer,' especially given that he had allegedly been speaking to the officers for a few minutes
I'm also asking if you believe that the mis-transcription could have resulted from the recording officer's definition of "unsheathing" being similar to yours.

Алексей said, December 09, 2014, 08:49:33 pm
...Since he did not however, blame falls to the cops...
That fits my bias, I guess. I'm not trying to force you to say something you don't believe by the way.

I see. Well, maybe it's just me, but as I said before, when someone says that they've unsheathed their sword it usually means that they swung it from the sheath. I guess it's more from a "fighting" or "sword-play" perspective. There's many different ways to swing a sword and unsheathing one is not particularly easy to do without being "showy" in some sort of way. Maybe it was the unsheathing alone that made the cops react. There was also a moment where the cops did ask him to drop his weapon to which he responded "I can't do that. It's my sword." From a cop's perspective, I think this could be seen as resistance, so they would have been reason to get tense about the situation.

To answer your second question, yes, I believe that the mis-transcription could have resulted from the recording officer's definition, however, only they know what they saw. According to the video I've seen of Hunt before being pursued, his sword was completely unsheathed and held near the hilt with the sheath lying across the back of his arm. Unsheathing from this or any position (which we have no footage of unfortunately) would require a long reach as the katana was pretty large. I'm speculating as much as anyone else would, but it just seems to me that there had to be some form of provocation or none of this would have happened.

-[Все слова это только слова.]-

GentleOne

Re: Cops shoot, kill black Mugen cosplayer

#83 December 10, 2014, 02:12:07 am

Ah, okay, I understand what you're saying. Thanks for the clarification.

Алексей

Re: Cops shoot, kill black Mugen cosplayer

#84 December 10, 2014, 03:09:00 am

Hey.
Online

GentleOne said, December 10, 2014, 02:12:07 am

Ah, okay, I understand what you're saying. Thanks for the clarification.

No problem. I appreciate the civil discussion.

-[Все слова это только слова.]-

DKDC

Re: Cops shoot, kill black Mugen cosplayer

#85 December 10, 2014, 10:03:06 am

Алексей said, December 10, 2014, 01:54:19 am

when someone says that they've unsheathed their sword it usually means that they swung it from the sheath.
[...]
his sword was completely unsheathed and held near the hilt with the sheath lying across the back of his arm. Unsheathing from this or any position (which we have no footage of unfortunately) would require a long reach as the katana was pretty large.

That's a very broad definition of "swinging", and also very biased. A big motion doesn't mean a swing ; I'd understand if after pulling it he was still making swinging moves and pointing it at the cops, but if he simply pulled it and then stood relaxed, you just can't call it swinging. Just pulling the sword isn't swinging, context (and attitude) will tell you what swinging is. And if he was chatting with the cops, pulled the sword, then relaxed, it wasn't swinging. If he was making wide and sudden movements, you could call it that ; but the witness says that's not what happened.

The cops are calling it "swinging" because it made they jumpy for some dumb reason, and they reacted by pulling their gun and shooting - which they obviously shouldn't have (as I was saying earlier, they should have training to not shoot on reaction until you fully know what's going on). But It doesn't mean it actually was.

If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.

Last Edit: December 10, 2014, 10:07:18 am by DKDC

Алексей

Re: Cops shoot, kill black Mugen cosplayer

#86 December 10, 2014, 01:26:28 pm

Hey.
Online

DKDC said, December 10, 2014, 10:03:06 am

That's a very broad definition of "swinging", and also very biased. A big motion doesn't mean a swing ; I'd understand if after pulling it he was still making swinging moves and pointing it at the cops, but if he simply pulled it and then stood relaxed, you just can't call it swinging. Just pulling the sword isn't swinging, context (and attitude) will tell you what swinging is. And if he was chatting with the cops, pulled the sword, then relaxed, it wasn't swinging. If he was making wide and sudden movements, you could call it that ; but the witness says that's not what happened.

The cops are calling it "swinging" because it made they jumpy for some dumb reason, and they reacted by pulling their gun and shooting - which they obviously shouldn't have (as I was saying earlier, they should have training to not shoot on reaction until you fully know what's going on). But It doesn't mean it actually was.

A swing could be classified as a lot of different motions. You can't say that unsheathing couldn't be a swinging motion. There are many different ways to unsheathe a sword. We don't know which method Hunt chose. My point is that the "swing" could have been the pulling of the sword. The witness says that he only saw a flash from the metal of the unsheathed sword, so that's not even definitive proof that there was no swing to get there. There's proof that all of the shots were received while running, from the back. That means that something happened there that made him take off first. To be honest, the safest way he could have unsheathed the sword would be sliding it out near the ground with the sheath on the ground. However, Hunt refused to drop his weapon as was reported. So, let's think about this for a second. It's a 3-foot katana. What is the process of unsheathing? Well, you have to pull the sword entirely out. The sheath is held with one hand the sword taken out with the other, all the way to the tip. Given the curvature, there is an arc that must be made at some point to full take out the sword. Relaxed or not, this could have been easily "pointing" at them. This is the only reason why I'm using those particular words.

On a side note, just look at this thing:

That looks real as real could be. I have a sword that is extremely sharp and looks similar to it. Even at the distance the cops were, that looks real. Even at the distance the camera is from that sword, it looks real. I don't blame the cops for thinking it was real.

-[Все слова это только слова.]-

DKDC

Re: Cops shoot, kill black Mugen cosplayer

#87 December 10, 2014, 01:45:49 pm

Алексей said, December 10, 2014, 01:26:28 pm

You can't say that unsheathing couldn't be a swinging motion. There are many different ways to unsheathe a sword. We don't know which method Hunt chose.

You're taking your conclusion and trying to make facts retrofit it. If there are many different ways to unsheathe a sword, there definitely are some ways to not swing it. It's because we don't know how it went, that we can't say that it was a swing, what you can not do is that there are many ways to unsheathe it so he might have swung it.
The witness says he unsheathed it but did not swing it. If the cops took it as a swing, it's their mistake, because a third party specifically got mad when they changed his report from "unsheathe" to "swing". You can say all you want that they thought the motion was a swing, it's still a fuck-up on their part because it wasn't actually a swing.

Quote

The witness says that he only saw a flash from the metal of the unsheathed sword, so that's not even definitive proof that there was no swing to get there.

You're assuming there was a swing and then trying to make the report fit your conclusion. This is bad, it's like you're only trying to protect the cops by twisting the facts to give them an excuse. You're supposed to go the other way around, and start from the witness' testimony, which is "he unsheathed it", not "swing it".

Quote

There's proof that all of the shots were received while running, from the back. That means that something happened there that made him take off first.

How about he pulled the sword to show it was fake, they drew their gun and shot (and missed), so he bolted.

Quote

That looks real as real could be. I have a sword that is extremely sharp and looks similar to it. Even at the distance the cops were, that looks real. Even at the distance the camera is from that sword, it looks real. I don't blame the cops for thinking it was real.

How about he was chatting with them, asking them for a ride, they asked him about his sword, he laughed it off saying it was fake, pulled it to show they, they freaked, they shot, he freaked, he ran.

Everything you're saying is to protect the cops, to show that they might have been rightfully afraid. But the thing is, a third party witnessed what happened and said nothing that fits what the cops say. The benefit of the doubt goes to the victim, the guy who was shot in the back. It doesn't go to the cops.
If the witness didn't think it was a swing, it means the cops overreacted and fucked up. Obviously that can happen, they may have been jumpy for some weird reason, but the fact that it ended with them shooting the guy in the back makes them wrong by default. They're the ones who have to justify their action, not the other way around. If the witness says it wasn't a swing and they say it was a swing, it means it was ambiguous at best, and the whole point is that they should NOT have shot or even drawn their gun for "ambiguous". They should only pull their gun when they know and understand exactly what's going on. They can't kill people because they were jumpy, they can't kill people because they THINK he's shifty. They have to KNOW first that their life is in danger.

If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.

Last Edit: December 10, 2014, 01:49:58 pm by DKDC

Алексей

Re: Cops shoot, kill black Mugen cosplayer

#88 December 10, 2014, 02:26:49 pm

Hey.
Online

You seem to be hung up on the "swing" vs "unsheathing" thing. Let's approach it differently:

Yes, but the third party claimed that he only saw a flash from the blade of the sword, meaning that the sword was already unsheathed and he didn't see the actual unsheathing. That crucial detail remains unknown to us. In my opinion, it's the start of the events that matter more then the end. I wouldn't care if it was the other way around and the cops ended up being dead instead. The start of the events is what caused the chain reaction that ended in Hunt's death. You yourself have said it here:

Quote

How about he pulled the sword to show it was fake, they drew their gun and shot (and missed), so he bolted.

The pulling of the sword was the problem. Had that not happened, he wouldn't have been dead. You can't simply ignore that and focus on the shooting because the shooting wouldn't have happened if not for the first event.

-[Все слова это только слова.]-

DKDC

Re: Cops shoot, kill black Mugen cosplayer

#89 December 10, 2014, 06:57:40 pm

Алексей said, December 10, 2014, 02:26:49 pm

You seem to be hung up on the "swing" vs "unsheathing" thing.

Uh, yeah ? I'm kind of making a whole point that talking about "swinging a sword" strongly implies an act of aggression but it's completely possible to unsheathe a sword without it being an act of aggression. This makes a pretty big difference in excusing the cops from feeling threatened and murdering a guy.

Quote

Yes, but the third party claimed that he only saw a flash from the blade of the sword, meaning that the sword was already unsheathed and he didn't see the actual unsheathing. That crucial detail remains unknown to us.

... And you can't assume that he swung the sword at the cops in an aggressive manner. The point with this witness report is that he said nothing about swinging the sword at the cops, and the cops deliberately changed that to say that the witness reported he swung the sword at the cops.

Quote

In my opinion, it's the start of the events that matter more then the end. I wouldn't care if it was the other way around and the cops ended up being dead instead. The start of the events is what caused the chain reaction that ended in Hunt's death.

Him pulling the sword was dumb. It did not give the cops free reign to shoot. You don't get killed for something like that. Cops shouldn't be authorized to kill you for something like that.

Алексей said, December 10, 2014, 02:26:49 pm

The pulling of the sword was the problem. Had that not happened, he wouldn't have been dead. You can't simply ignore that and focus on the shooting because the shooting wouldn't have happened if not for the first event.

Of course it would have been smarter to not pull a sword on cops, but he did. The fact that he was dumb and pulled the sword doesn't excuse the cops for killing him. You say I focus on the shooting, but of course I do, because I'm making a whole point that they should only ever shoot when they have completely assessed the situation, they shouldn't shoot on reaction whenever a guy suddenly walks out of an alley and they didn't see him coming. It's ridiculous to say "well it wouldn't have happened if this guy hadn't been walking in front of them and suddenly turned around with a cell phone that vaguely looks like a gun". Because at this rate, I can easily say "well he wouldn't have been killed if he was white". This holds exactly as much ground as your argument because I'm pretty damn sure it's true (not necessarily because they're openly racists, but because of "casual racism" and ready-made assumptions ingrained into anyone's mind). More generally speaking, you shouldn't get shot just because you're not very bright and do something that vaguely seems brusque.
You can't tell me to not focus on the shooting when I'm making a whole point on the shooting itself, the very fact that their reaction was to shoot without knowing what the hell was going on.

If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.

Last Edit: December 10, 2014, 07:04:33 pm by DKDC

Алексей

Re: Cops shoot, kill black Mugen cosplayer

#90 December 10, 2014, 07:27:56 pm

Hey.
Online

Quote

Uh, yeah ? I'm kind of making a whole point that talking about "swinging a sword" strongly implies an act of aggression but it's completely possible to unsheathe a sword without it being an act of aggression. This makes a pretty big difference in excusing the cops from feeling threatened and murdering a guy.

Yes, you're right, but at the same time one can swing a sword non-aggressively too. I've mentioned before that he could have easily unsheathed the sword safely without it seeming aggressive in anyone's eyes. That would be to do so on the ground. Again, Hunt refused to put his sword down, which shows resistance. I've mentioned that before as well. Does that point not count for anything in your eyes?

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... And you can't assume that he swung the sword at the cops in an aggressive manner. The point with this witness report is that he said nothing about swinging the sword at the cops, and the cops deliberately changed that to say that the witness reported he swung the sword at the cops.

Correct, and I'm not. I'm not saying that he swung it aggressively. I never mentioned aggression. Only that it's quite possible for the unsheathing to have been interpreted as a swing. The witness says that he said nothing about swinging the sword at the cops and the cops did change his report. This is true, however, since your said that "swinging a sword" strongly implies aggression, it's safe to say that most people would think this way as well. I think aggression to after the first hearing of those words. The witness might also have had the same description of "swinging a sword" and since Hunt did not swing aggressively, the witness' report was that. Now, all I'm saying is that you can't discount that some form of a swing couldn't have happened, but you are. You're writing it off like it's not at all possible or at least that's how it seems.

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Him pulling the sword was dumb. It did not give the cops free reign to shoot. You don't get killed for something like that. Cops shouldn't be authorized to kill you for something like that.

Yes, him pulling the sword was dumb. There's a recording of the representing attorney saying that cops have right to use deadly force if at all they feel life-threatened or they feel their partner is. This was his explanation for the Hunt being shot in the back as well. While I don't condone it, there's nothing I can say about it. It's their defense that they're using as well. The only thing I don't really agree with on the cops' side of things is that they were not interviewed right away after the incident.

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Of course it would have been smarter to not pull a sword on cops, but he did. The fact that he was dumb and pulled the sword doesn't excuse the cops for killing him. You say I focus on the shooting because I'm making a whole point that they should only ever shoot when they have completely assessed the situation, they shouldn't shoot on reaction whenever a guy suddenly walks out of an alley and they didn't see him coming. It's ridiculous to say "well it wouldn't have happened if this guy hadn't been walking in front of them and suddenly turned around with a cell phone that vaguely looks like a gun". You shouldn't get shot just because you're not very bright and do something that vaguely seems brusque. You can't tell me to not focus on the shooting when I'm making a whole point on the shooting itself, the very fact that their reaction was to shoot without knowing what the hell was going on.

My focus is on the unknown because one, it's far more interesting and two, it actually requires discussion because there are varying points of view and opinions as to what really happened. As for the shooting, it's common knowledge that cops shouldn't be allowed to kill people just because they think they're in danger, yet the do, and this isn't the first case of that. On the side of the shooting, we all know what happened. Hunt ran and they shot at him six times, with the final shot being fatal and in the back. No, of course you shouldn't get shot for being dumb. However, every action has a consequence regardless of the intellectuality of the action. I agree that the reaction was uncalled for, but it still happened and it's not really something to debate over, you know?

-[Все слова это только слова.]-

DKDC

Re: Cops shoot, kill black Mugen cosplayer

#91 December 10, 2014, 08:43:02 pm

Алексей said, December 10, 2014, 07:27:56 pm

Again, Hunt refused to put his sword down, which shows resistance.

This is a terrible reasoning. Every time a cop overreacts, there's the justification that "he resisted arrest". As soon as someone doesn't do the every whims of the officer, he's resisting arrest, and a few minutes later, he gets a bullet in the face.
This is a legally valid excuse, but it's still a horrible thing that cops are allowed to overreact as soon as someone "resists" by not obeying their every order. From the guy's stand point, his sword was fake, and the cops were telling him to drop his weapon, it's not strange in any way that he didn't take it seriously and was probably all "c'mon guys, don't be crazy, this is just a toy, man."

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Now, all I'm saying is that you can't discount that some form of a swing couldn't have happened, but you are. You're writing it off like it's not at all possible or at least that's how it seems.

I'm not discounting it. You say "it could be anything, that means it might have been a swing (implied aggressive)". I'm saying "it could be anything, so we can't assume it was aggressive". The difference is that my version puts the burden of proof on the cops, because that's how it should be. Your version is giving an excuse for the cops to overreact, and it shouldn't. If it was in fact aggressive, the cops need to prove that.
If the witness didn't think it was a swing (implying aggressive), then it means it was reasonable to think it wasn't an aggressive swing (if it wasn't reasonable, the witness wouldn't have gotten angry that the cops specifically changed his account like that). And as soon as you have that, then the defense that the cops took it as an act of aggression falls flat and it becomes "they killed the man solely because they overreacted and completely misjudged the situation". Because a third party, an external observer, saw it happen and didn't think he was being aggressive or swung the sword at the cops in a threatening manner.
And that puts liability on the cops, that means they're supposed to take responsibility and justify their action.

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There's a recording of the representing attorney saying that cops have right to use deadly force if at all they feel life-threatened or they feel their partner is. This was his explanation for the Hunt being shot in the back as well.

But the problem is that this reasoning gives full authorization to shoot people who have a toy weapon and don't comply to the cop's every order immediately (just because they think it's ridiculous, which it may absolutely be). That is wrong. The cop still need to be able to evaluate the situation by himself, otherwise that's just a totalitarian rule of force. You can't just exonerate the cops of all responsibility just for that. You are NOT supposed to bend over every time a cop misunderstands what's going on and is incapable of figuring it out by himself.

If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.

Last Edit: December 10, 2014, 08:46:12 pm by DKDC

Алексей

Re: Cops shoot, kill black Mugen cosplayer

#92 December 11, 2014, 02:15:40 am

Hey.
Online

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From the guy's stand point, his sword was fake, and the cops were telling him to drop his weapon, it's not strange in any way that he didn't take it seriously and was probably all "c'mon guys, don't be crazy, this is just a toy, man."

Yes, but what he said to the cops was "I can't do that. It's my sword." Joking or not, that's not helping his case.

I think we can both agree that the cops overreacted and should have handled the situation better. That's a given. I'm not debating with you about that so much. I'm just presenting one side that I believe could be true, because there are unanswered questions and I really want to know the truth. You're just accusing me of being on the cops' side and saying that I'm justifying their actions by making Hunt look like the bad guy. In any case, I think we can settle it here. It's only my opinion after all.

-[Все слова это только слова.]-

GentleOne

Re: Cops shoot, kill black Mugen cosplayer

#93 December 11, 2014, 06:53:38 am

Алексей said, December 11, 2014, 02:15:40 am

Yes, but what he said to the cops was "I can't do that. It's my sword." Joking or not, that's not helping his case.

I haven't read the long stuff above, but I would presume this article clarifies that (although the quote says the officers said, "away," based on the initial videos where a cop [and an unfazed, totally indifferent girl] followed him, it was very likely sheathed):

http://www.good4utah.com/story/d/story/affidavit-darrien-hunt-i-am-going-to-get-shot/32099/MxkSm0av2UyJ2ovvN618Ag

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Specifically, when police first confronted Hunt they claim he asked for a ride. Officers said they would if he put the sword away. Hunt refused.
Hunt allegedly told police: "I can't do that. It's my sword."

Additionally, news about the 911 call + Audio:
http://fox13now.com/2014/10/02/audio-of-911-call-in-fatal-officer-involved-shooting-of-darrien-hunt-released/

.

Last Edit: December 11, 2014, 07:10:22 am by GentleOne

DKDC

Re: Cops shoot, kill black Mugen cosplayer

#94 December 11, 2014, 10:23:57 am

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An affidavit filed by investigators claims Darrien Hunt may have had a death wish.

Hunt was shot by Saratoga Springs police last month. Police claim he was carrying a sword and lunged at officers when they asked him to put the sword down.

Big whopping surprise, here's that difference between unsheathing and swinging the sword. Now it's "lunging" and he had a death wish. See why it's important ?

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Despite being wounded, Hunt ran from the police. He was fatally shot a few yards away, once in the back.

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The official report showed Hunt was shot six times, one of those bullets in the back.
The report also said Hunt was shot three times before running from police.

"Shot once in the back". Is someone trying to minimize their fuck-up or what.

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The affidavit claimed police were investigating an “aggravated assault.”

Like Michael Brown, the cops came to Hunt because they were looking for someone who attacked someone else, and Hunt fit the description ? But the court will still fall for it despite obvious precedents.

If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.

GentleOne

Re: Cops shoot, kill black Mugen cosplayer

#95 December 12, 2014, 02:39:11 am

DKDC said, December 11, 2014, 10:23:57 am

I ask myself the same questions all the time, bro. I find the handling of these instances, and the typical, "He was a threat defense," baffling!

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