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Did Guild change for the better? "Preferation vote topic" 2 (Read 20488 times)

Started by PotS, September 05, 2008, 03:30:26 pm
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Well, did it?

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Kung_Fu_Man

Re: Did Guild change for the better? "Preferation vote topic" 2
#141  September 07, 2008, 04:48:09 pm
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This is one massive, oversized, idiotic clusterfuck of a topic. But then again what else is new?

Bastard Wolf

Re: Did Guild change for the better? "Preferation vote topic" 2
#142  September 07, 2008, 08:34:35 pm
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Kagami

Re: Did Guild change for the better? "Preferation vote topic" 2
#143  September 07, 2008, 09:06:22 pm
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[B]yakko said, September 07, 2008, 01:28:39 pm
Cutting down those who harass them at every turn of the forum, and letting people know that it's a bad thing to do.
Keyword before someone brings up the "mugen police fail" : "of the FORUM".

That's why the report option exists if I'm correct, and that's why we bash people who harass others now and then...

Sooooo...where's the "Protection" lacking?, I still don't see the point of "There is no protection" :S

"There's a Time to live, There's a Time to Die, But no one can escape The Destiny....."

DKDC

Re: Did Guild change for the better? "Preferation vote topic" 2
#144  September 07, 2008, 09:17:09 pm
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and that's why we bash people who harass others now and then...
Last time I heard about bashing people, the "creator" side doing exactly that were the bad guys for... doing exactly that.
Quote
That's why the report option exists if I'm correct
If it had worked back then, then we wouldn't be having this discussion about old vs new and so.
If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.

Iced

Re: Did Guild change for the better? "Preferation vote topic" 2
#145  September 07, 2008, 09:32:22 pm
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[B]yakko said, September 07, 2008, 09:17:09 pm
If it had worked back then, then we wouldn't be having this discussion about old vs new and so.

Actually, we think it worked, we all are stating we are fine with it,
The thread itself is a statement that mugen hasnt died as it was claimed it would die over the guild actions.

 you are the one challenging that and thus the burden of proof remains with you, you havent answered what Kagami asked you.


Kagami said, September 07, 2008, 09:06:22 pm
Sooooo...where's the "Protection" lacking?, I still don't see the point of "There is no protection" :S

DKDC

Re: Did Guild change for the better? "Preferation vote topic" 2
#146  September 07, 2008, 10:20:11 pm
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Because it's not made clear where the line is drawn. The first thing newcomers see is that you're not policing anything.
While I'm not asking you to actually resume being a police, the message is still very unclear ; this is where "protection" is lacking.

The image of the Guild has always been very fuzzy. In the older era, some people would diss it because of the number of leechers and how there was a lot of nonsense and requests and spam everywhere. Then, it started going into a policing frenzy, and it was dissed because of it, and before you'd understand why, its image of "full of elitists" became worse than that of Dev - you'd recognize this is quite a feat. Then currently, it's just "no more police rules", the first thing people see is that they won't be chased down for doing bad things. While people actually do report, and while the mods actually do try to show people when they do something bad, the image the Guild has, its signature punchline if you may, has always been in bias of what the people at its head wanted to do with it.

I'm definitely not asking for a banning frenzy, I am and always have been saying that you should be very clear about what you do, that you should teach, one by one if need be, to dispel any misunderstanding. Topics that derail way too easily is an example of that : people don't see where you draw the line, topics like this one or the coliseums get out of hand way too easily, dramas occur way too easily because only two people are misunderstanding each other even when they actually agree. Don't you wonder why the one image that has always stuck to the Guild is that it's a place for dramaqueens ? Because things get out of hand.
And keeping something "in hand" does not mean making everyone shut up, it means making sure everyone has the right idea of what's going on. It means teach as soon as possible, it means make sure people don't stay too long with the wrong idea of what you consider alright and not alright.
I understand that some mods do act with that idea in mind, but -- the very fact we're discussing this right now, the number of threads that have derailed in the same way, proves that something was not handled as well as it could have.
Oh, and yes, this does include "protection" for creators.
Well I'm trying to stick as much as I can to the topic, keep comparing he "old" and "new" and the change, hope it doesn't bother anyone...
If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.
Last Edit: September 07, 2008, 10:35:45 pm by [B]yakko

Kung_Fu_Man

Re: Did Guild change for the better? "Preferation vote topic" 2
#147  September 07, 2008, 11:43:20 pm
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He's right.

Laxxe23

Re: Did Guild change for the better? "Preferation vote topic" 2
#148  September 07, 2008, 11:47:12 pm
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Kagami

Re: Did Guild change for the better? "Preferation vote topic" 2
#149  September 07, 2008, 11:54:58 pm
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@byakko
oh, well, you're on topic man, don't worry...

well, first, i think all the text up in your post can be resumed to: "i think you're too soft"(the rules)

and well, the "forum dramas" are not that bad, I remember worst dramas in mugendev back in the day, but there you could see topics deleted or things like that faster...

"protection" for creators is what i can't understand, in its current form you got what i said before, people bashed for spriteswaps (released as full char instead of patch), char robbery accused, all of the same from before...what exactly do you think is wrong with its actual form?, we cannot stop anything more that the guild can handle....we CAN't stop what people do once the files are on their pc...the guild can handle only what happens IN the guild itself, and the rules are set to stop the ones that doesn't follow the more simple respect for others...


"There's a Time to live, There's a Time to Die, But no one can escape The Destiny....."
Last Edit: September 08, 2008, 04:53:58 am by Kagami

Cyanide

Re: Did Guild change for the better? "Preferation vote topic" 2
#150  September 07, 2008, 11:57:43 pm
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I'm sure it's been said but we could go back to "enforcing protection" and it would have no effect. They don't have to release here. They just release everywhere else, including youtube which we can't do shit about, and then upload it somewhere. Which we also technically can't do shit about.

There are really only 2 valid states. Ignoring it and asking them to be nice. Going to town on it and pummeling every breach.

Guess which one is more stressful?


In M.U.G.E.N there is no magic button

They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance.

DKDC

Re: Did Guild change for the better? "Preferation vote topic" 2
#151  September 08, 2008, 12:04:36 am
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"i think you're too soft"(the rules)
Partly, but not totally, because I know that you guys are actually trying to teach. I see what you're trying to do with people like TheBazzard and whatnot. In theory. Theorically, it doesn't bother me, it doesn't seem so horribly soft and I could live with the ideal you're trying to create. But the end result is that it still gets out of hand. It takes too much time to apply, so much that it goes out of hand.
In a way, it could be "too soft", but the theory you're trying to create would be fine enough for me when it comes to those arguments.
Quote
"protection" for creators is what i can't understand... what exactly do you think is wrong with its actual form?
That it's not made clear enough. again, I see what you're trying to do, but people still get the wrong idea. To this day still, half of the community thinks the Guild is too elitist, and the other half thinks it's a second MGBR. Don't you think there's something really weird when half of the people think Guild is the exact opposite of what the other half thinks it is ?
And yes, I am talking within Guild itself, I do get the part of the Guild current policy that you can't handle things that simply don't go through Guild, that it can't go out of itself to bash people across the Internet wherever they are on their computers. This is not what I'm talking about, and I'm definitely not talking about Youtube uploads.

Quote
and well, the "forum dramas" are not that bad
Er, pretty much everyone complains when one happens. People complain about this one, people complain about the length of the Bazzard/Lilith topic, people complain about how long some users make their posts, people complain about the quote-fest. It's not that bad when pretty much every "caste" (if Iced insists on calling them castes) has something to complain about on it ?

Quote
Guess which one is more stressful?
Well I can guess which one you can't handle.
If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.
Last Edit: September 08, 2008, 12:08:26 am by [B]yakko

Mewtwo

Re: Did Guild change for the better? "Preferation vote topic" 2
#152  September 08, 2008, 12:10:52 am
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Were all bans lifted from the guild?Because I seen some of the banned ppl have made their return.

Shamrock

Re: Did Guild change for the better? "Preferation vote topic" 2
#153  September 08, 2008, 12:30:41 am
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You know the first release of my Batman was a spriteswap of P.O.T.S Charlie. No one really jump on me for it. I of course told people in the release that is was only a spriteswap and I would update later. I think I had one person say something about it. They asked if I got permission and shit. I told them no but from what I understood from reading the forum was that p.o.t.s was open source and if this is not the case and he had a problem with it then I would take it down.

That was it. No body said shit. Of course this was months after the change. If someone had bashed me for it I would have just not posted here again. I remember that I was nervous that some would get pissed when I released it. Like I said if things went another way I would have just found somewhere else to release or I might have been discouraged and just left the whole scene.

I don't think people really care about you using there stuff as much as they care about not getting credit or being one upped by there own work. What I mean is someone takes your beta ryu and then competes it. That kind of shit is just wrong. At least I know that it would piss me off if someone fixed all the shit wrong with my two releases before I got a chance to.

DKDC

Re: Did Guild change for the better? "Preferation vote topic" 2
#154  September 08, 2008, 12:45:36 am
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Er, if you're talking to me, I've been around long enough to have an idea on who wants what, and also on what who does to get it.
If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.

Just No Point

Re: Did Guild change for the better? "Preferation vote topic" 2
#155  September 08, 2008, 02:19:23 am
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As far as I have known any and every forum gets some kind of negative label.

I'm not sure why Guild should care about it's current label of half too elitist and half too un-policed. In fact it's pretty neat that the negatives are divided that way. Those are the extreme negative views. Somewhere in the middle is the true guild.

Which IMO is a good blend.

MI is looked at as too random
RS is looked at as too elitist/extreme

But those are simply negative labels. MI and RS are, as far as I know, content with the images they have. It draws in the members that don't really think of the forum in that negative nature. And there are a LOT of MI/RS people that would defend their forums.

Generally having a forum is an thankless job. You tend to only get responses when something doesn't go well. When things run smooth, well... no "job well done" that's the quite point before the next screw up.

I am content with the image people have of the current guild. It is in my humble opinion better now than any state it has ever been in. The atmosphere is so much nicer now. I mean, the occasional bad blood comes up from the past, but all in all most users seem pretty friendly now and much more tolerant.
The forum is a good place to sit back, chill, read some threads, and learn from/talk to peers.
It's not ALL about creating and enforcing rules/ethics. And it's not ALL about playing, downloading, and releasing sprite swaps. It's somewhere in between just like I like it.

-SyLar-

Re: Did Guild change for the better? "Preferation vote topic" 2
#156  September 08, 2008, 03:37:15 am
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Just No Point said, September 08, 2008, 02:19:23 am
The forum is a good place to sit back, chill, read some threads, and learn from/talk to peers.
It's not ALL about creating and enforcing rules/ethics. And it's not ALL about playing, downloading, and releasing sprite swaps. It's somewhere in between just like I like it.

i agree. i enjoy the forums for the discussions as much as the projects. i feel there needs to be a balance of both for a forum to thrive and be interesting, maybe some randomness as well for those off days when you say "what the heck i'll join in" but just not as much as MI's Random insanity &gt;_&gt;

jaike

Re: Did Guild change for the better? "Preferation vote topic" 2
#157  September 08, 2008, 03:51:32 am
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[Kira] said, September 07, 2008, 09:43:11 am
I could have said the same thing to you, actually. You've proved nothing.

jaike said, September 07, 2008, 09:18:43 am
sounds like to me you support it or have nothing against it. to me its all the same.
Your logic is severely flawed. Thus, you fail.


jaike said, September 07, 2008, 08:51:06 am
[Kira] said, September 07, 2008, 08:38:49 am
Do you have any idea how ridiculous you sound right now?

not as ridiculous as you my friend :)
you killed the whole joke with this post. shame on you!!!!!!



i actually said that first and now you trying to reverse it on me. comical lmfao. like i said before you didn't prove anything. i guess we both fail
now calm down flame baiter and lets move on :)
Last Edit: September 08, 2008, 04:00:25 am by jaike

jaike

Re: Did Guild change for the better? "Preferation vote topic" 2
#158  September 08, 2008, 03:55:46 am
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back to this thread topic  this guy made a excellent point when he said this

Cyanide said, September 06, 2008, 08:38:41 am
But the instant action should not be ban. Especially when you can't tell if they're actually serious or not.

And no this is NOT a jab, everyone is ban happy when they first get that ability. It's normal. I was, but, that was on a small forum in which bans were few and far between.

Although, i did get to ban gohanssm2 once, i enjoyed that.
sometimes mods get out of hand and need to be put in they place too. once they get a little bit of power some of them don't know how to act

-SyLar-

Re: Did Guild change for the better? "Preferation vote topic" 2
#159  September 08, 2008, 04:09:02 am
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dnt really think that relates to thread topic but it surely relates to teh discussion that seems to be taking place

Jesuszilla

Re: Did Guild change for the better? "Preferation vote topic" 2
#160  September 08, 2008, 04:56:29 am
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jaike said, September 08, 2008, 03:51:32 am
i actually said that first and now you trying to reverse it on me. comical lmfao. like i said before you didn't prove anything. i guess we both fail
now calm down flame baiter and lets move on :)

Flame baiter? What are you, 12? Only people who are new to the Internet use that term. Not to mention every comeback you've thrown at me so far has been nothing but a dragged out, "no u."


That aside, let me just kill what started this in the first place: if a post is long, just don't read it. Pure and simple. I do that and I avoid reading discussions and arguments that do nothing but go in circles like Byakko and Iced.
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