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Did Guild change for the better? "Preferation vote topic" 2 (Read 20488 times)

Started by PotS, September 05, 2008, 03:30:26 pm
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Well, did it?

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Kagami

Re: Did Guild change for the better? "Preferation vote topic" 2
#161  September 08, 2008, 06:34:31 am
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@B]yakko
Quote
It takes too much time to apply, so much that it goes out of hand.

hummm, how many years has the community? (not the guild specifically)...from 99 to...almost 09!...

if you check the actual mugen community, it's mainly (or in bigger number) newcomers, some are in a good age, some are really young...

were is the old community?the ones that didn't turn in creators are nowhere to be seen, the ones that turned, quited (life things), while others "paused" indefinitely, and the rest are still around...

then, how many are actually around, that know the correct rules of respect regarding creators (i don't mean the "police", i mean, the common sense ones, the sprite respect, the char respect, the sense of asking before acting)?

is not an ideal, it's something that if its not well done, will really get out of hands, 'cause some of us oldies, are not gonna be around forever (heck, even some have already gotten ahead of us in the road, like Reu) and if the noobs don't learn, and the ones that stay don't even care about it, then i think the community have their days counted...seems like a broken learning circle...

Quote
Don't you think there's something really weird when half of the people think Guild is the exact opposite of what the other half thinks it is ?

well, certainly it doesn't seems strange to me, it actually reflects what i'm saying, the ones thinking that everything is out of control (mostly people from long time ago that knew the old rules) and the new ones (people that has the wrong idea that "if its internetzz, its freee", and if we bash them, for using what they got the way they want, we are a group of elitists according to them)

Quote
It's not that bad when pretty much every "caste" (if Iced insists on calling them castes) has something to complain about on it ?

it's a discussion section after all, it's the feedback forum, if the replies are actually involving feedback for the forum, then what's wrong about them been long?, even the ones just reading have read the main positions about it, theres only one that reported a post as "its too much"  ::)

@The Blue Hedgehog
Quote
Were all bans lifted from the guild?Because I seen some of the banned ppl have made their return.
I believe that some bans are just temporal...

@Just No Point
Quote
Generally having a forum is an thankless job. You tend to only get responses when something doesn't go well. When things run smooth, well... no "job well done" that's the quite point before the next screw up.

Absolutely, I have already 4 years as an admin in 3 webs, and is sometimes a very stressful work, not always thankless, just by the people that comes now and then, but one always gets great feedback from the community that stays long time in the forum...

@jaike
Quote
sometimes mods get out of hand and need to be put in they place too. once they get a little bit of power some of them don't know how to act

there's only two ways for that to happen:
1.-the mod is a kido, and acts like one
2.-the admin didn't pick correctly his staff

everything else, is not a bad mod, it's a wrong user ::)

sorry for the late replies, i went this afternoon to the "Titanic:The Artifact Exhibition" that is on my city now  ::)

"There's a Time to live, There's a Time to Die, But no one can escape The Destiny....."
Last Edit: September 08, 2008, 06:42:07 am by Kagami

Davod Sirloin

Re: Did Guild change for the better? "Preferation vote topic" 2
#162  September 08, 2008, 07:27:12 am
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One year and I haven't seen any of the four horsemen, so I guess there's no choice but to vote yes.

c00p

Re: Did Guild change for the better? "Preferation vote topic" 2
#163  September 08, 2008, 08:06:24 am
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Actually . . . i'm one of them. I came from the realms of FM to bring despair, greed, famine and chaos. Wait and you'll see  :mellow:

Kagami

Re: Did Guild change for the better? "Preferation vote topic" 2
#164  September 08, 2008, 08:06:36 am
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I think I need to elaborate a little bit my last quote (the "mod thing")

there are times when some new people go to forums and think "nouuuuwww zhitt, we're nottt gonna be oppressed, down with the mods", I have seen it some times, and those people tend to just harass mods every time they can...

and there are other users that after getting putted down by a mod (a bad post/a wrong attitude or complains) wants to "payback" and looks to actually pester so the mod can be "put in their place" 'cause they think they are power hungry people...but actually the user is just bitching 'cause they want revenge...

well those are 2 kind of people that can pester mods, and thats why i tell you that , unless the mod is wrong or being a kido (and in that case, admins act sooner of what you think) the only other fault is the user, that either pester or just looks for payback for a past exposure...

just my 2 cents of experience...

"There's a Time to live, There's a Time to Die, But no one can escape The Destiny....."

Jango Hakamichi

Re: Did Guild change for the better? "Preferation vote topic" 2
#165  September 08, 2008, 08:57:44 am
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* Jango tries to get everyone to look at the Youtube MUGEN community and their dramas so that everyone realizes how pointless this argument is.

Kagami

Re: Did Guild change for the better? "Preferation vote topic" 2
#166  September 08, 2008, 09:00:36 am
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hum...why pointless?

can't you see it has quite a lot of points to get kids reading nowadays  :o

"There's a Time to live, There's a Time to Die, But no one can escape The Destiny....."

Jango Hakamichi

Re: Did Guild change for the better? "Preferation vote topic" 2
#167  September 08, 2008, 09:05:06 am
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sorry, I don't mean "pointless" like that. I mean "pointless" as in "ridiculous"

Kagami

Re: Did Guild change for the better? "Preferation vote topic" 2
#168  September 08, 2008, 09:06:45 am
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ridiculously long I agree, but I don't feel this thread will lead to nothing...unless it gets unread  :sugoi:

"There's a Time to live, There's a Time to Die, But no one can escape The Destiny....."

-SyLar-

Re: Did Guild change for the better? "Preferation vote topic" 2
#169  September 08, 2008, 01:47:23 pm
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YouTube community is a whole different league

Jango Hakamichi

Re: Did Guild change for the better? "Preferation vote topic" 2
#170  September 08, 2008, 08:26:33 pm
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Kagami said, September 08, 2008, 09:06:45 am
ridiculously long I agree, but I don't feel this thread will lead to nothing...unless it gets unread  :sugoi:

I'm just wondering the whole point. I mean, if there are a massive amount of "yes" answers, so what? If you get a massive amount of "no" answers, does that mean Guild will undo all of the progress it made in opening up doors just to appease these people?

Although I have to admit watching Byakko posting a wall of text and watching Kung_Fu_Man post "he's right" right after that made me lol irl.

jaike

Re: Did Guild change for the better? "Preferation vote topic" 2
#171  September 08, 2008, 08:31:23 pm
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Kagami said, September 08, 2008, 08:06:36 am
I think I need to elaborate a little bit my last quote (the "mod thing")

there are times when some new people go to forums and think "nouuuuwww zhitt, we're nottt gonna be oppressed, down with the mods", I have seen it some times, and those people tend to just harass mods every time they can...

and there are other users that after getting putted down by a mod (a bad post/a wrong attitude or complains) wants to "payback" and looks to actually pester so the mod can be "put in their place" 'cause they think they are power hungry people...but actually the user is just bitching 'cause they want revenge...

well those are 2 kind of people that can pester mods, and thats why i tell you that , unless the mod is wrong or being a kido (and in that case, admins act sooner of what you think) the only other fault is the user, that either pester or just looks for payback for a past exposure...

just my 2 cents of experience...

Cyanide said, September 06, 2008, 08:38:41 am
But the instant action should not be ban. Especially when you can't tell if they're actually serious or not.

And no this is NOT a jab, everyone is ban happy when they first get that ability. It's normal. I was, but, that was on a small forum in which bans were few and far between.

Although, i did get to ban gohanssm2 once, i enjoyed that.

when i posted this cyanide comment i was also trying to show you an example of what i was talking about when i said sometimes mods get out of hand and need to be put in they place too. it was also an example of someone getting a little bit of power and don't know how to act with it. cyanide was putting that mod in his place. it was an uncalled for ban and the owner of this site cyanide said it himself. don't get me wrong i'm not disagreeing with nothing you said. i actually think you made some good points too. i was just elaborating more on the situation.

Iced

Re: Did Guild change for the better? "Preferation vote topic" 2
#172  September 08, 2008, 08:33:06 pm
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His raps still sucked balls and were clearly the work of someone with homosexual tendencies and unable to disguise them properly.

Shamrock

Re: Did Guild change for the better? "Preferation vote topic" 2
#173  September 08, 2008, 09:05:33 pm
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Oh Cyanide owns the site I had no idea. LOL

jaike. You have no idea what you are talking about. If I wanted I could change the ban back. Cy has more experience than me and I respect his judgment so I responded to it.

The truth is I lean more to the stricter side of the guild brain while others are more lax. It's a balance they stop me from banning and I remind them that something has to be done with these folks. Being that I am new and so far banning hasn't solved a thing and every time I do it people say hey that's to harsh. I've decided to take the Cy approach and find more interesting ways of modding. That's what he was talking about do I agree fully no because it causes more work for me and I personally feel that we could be harder on somethings.

But Cy is right the harder work will pay off more. Cy and I are in total agreement that what was happening was wrong we were arguing about how to handle it. Cy has been around longer so he has already learned what I have not and that banning only causes a new annoying user account to pop up that does the same thing.

I didn't realize that when I caved in to his decision that I was being put in my place because last I checked he is in the same place as me and that's trying to keep the forum clean and user friendly. The difference is that he has more experience and a nicer way of handling things.

Hell most of mods and I would like to see Cy as an Admn but he won't do it, he still has most of his sanity so he's waiting for that to go first.

So I am no longer going to push that ban button. This forces me to have to use my brain instead of my brawn plus it keeps me from having to answer to someone like you who thinks they get whats going on.

I still don't agree that banning was not the right way to handle it because I'm a middle of the road guy. I'm going to warn like a Cy but if that is not followed then I would like to ban like a Kung Fu Man. This doesn't make me or Cy wrong this just means there is a difference of opinion and the more I learn from the other mods the more I lean towards the Cy way. Hence no more banning just makes a bunch of drama. I will still go after name calling users but there are other ways.

That's what this topic is about. A difference in philosophies of how things happen around here. As you can see it's pretty split.
Last Edit: September 08, 2008, 09:10:23 pm by shamrock

Kagami

Re: Did Guild change for the better? "Preferation vote topic" 2
#174  September 08, 2008, 09:18:22 pm
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@jaike
well, glad that we share the point of view, but about your post...

cyanide was not exactly putting down the mod, just saying that the ban came more quickly than needed, the user was already banned in 2 forums, 'cause the song called names and was not exactly a respectful song...

that was not exactly an exaggerated use of power by a mod, just an exceeded swiftness in actions...

BTW, cyanide is not the owner in MFG  :P, it's actually the same rank as shamrock ::) (damn, sham beat me to post it first)

the owner is actually nunor, now retired, and in place is sepp and valodim, so as long as i see, that was just a mod's chatter...

@Jango
well i don't think a meter like that will change anything immediately, no matter what answer gets the most votes, but the thread and it's long chatter gives a bigger picture on the thoughts of the people that participate, thats what helps most in "changes"

"There's a Time to live, There's a Time to Die, But no one can escape The Destiny....."
Last Edit: September 08, 2008, 09:22:46 pm by Kagami

Valodim

Re: Did Guild change for the better? "Preferation vote topic" 2
#175  September 08, 2008, 09:21:55 pm
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Huh, another philosophy thread.. :smiley2:

Kagami

Re: Did Guild change for the better? "Preferation vote topic" 2
#176  September 08, 2008, 09:25:43 pm
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Solipsism Warning:

The consumer should be aware that he or she may be the only entity in
the universe, and therefore that any perceived defects in product
quality are the consumer's own fault.

Quote
Cartesian Evil Genius Alert:

The reader is advised that he or she may be subject to an illusion
generated by an evil genius, and that his or her "sensory fibers" may
be falsely manipulated at any time with neither advance warning nor
any possible legal remedy.


"There's a Time to live, There's a Time to Die, But no one can escape The Destiny....."
Last Edit: September 08, 2008, 09:33:03 pm by Kagami

-SyLar-

Re: Did Guild change for the better? "Preferation vote topic" 2
#177  September 08, 2008, 09:42:44 pm
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i thought it was a discusion abotu the changes to guild. where did philosophy come into play  ???

Rajaa

Re: Did Guild change for the better? "Preferation vote topic" 2
#178  September 08, 2008, 09:45:32 pm
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Iced

Re: Did Guild change for the better? "Preferation vote topic" 2
#179  September 10, 2008, 12:14:03 pm
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In the end, while change might have been something that was just to happen with time, the end results seem pretty good.

The "pr" that we are oftenly accused to not have come from persons with extremely bad pr, and unable to keep their own noses clean, and I cant take those accusations with a straight face after observing most of the things they do.

Problems are dealt with, issues as well, the main rule of not being rude and harassing others beyond what is expected is accomplished.
Every community has bad apples, and sometimes its pretty easy to pretend that the community is only the bad apples, but we need to take a step back from the situation in order to analyze it.
Its living, its going forward and its LIVING. its evolving by itself and new persons keep coming every time, and we should cherish that fact not get upset over there being new persons, if they are too random we educate them, we teach them better by example, not by shows of hate and harassment, not by being aggressive towards one another to try to gain an upper hand on who has more "fame".
Not by ostracizing entire communities outside of our own.THAT is bad Pr, not "omg guild has banned 3 persons on a year so their pr SUCKS!" What also ends up being bad pr and harsh as hell? Demanding heads on platters, singling out persons amidst our ranks to be called assholes over ... petty squabbles.
Like the "alucard" treatment.
That lack of basic respect for others bred worst things in all of mugen community history than any thievery.

c001357

Re: Did Guild change for the better? "Preferation vote topic" 2
#180  September 10, 2008, 12:19:03 pm
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It's actually more on sociology.
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