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Did Guild change for the better? "Preferation vote topic" 2 (Read 20488 times)

Started by PotS, September 05, 2008, 03:30:26 pm
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Well, did it?

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DKDC

Re: Did Guild change for the better? "Preferation vote topic" 2
#181  September 10, 2008, 07:13:36 pm
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The "pr" that we are oftenly accused to not have come from persons with extremely bad pr
Two things on that.

Why would you base yourself on something that others do to take into account (or not) a remark issued to you ?

You saying that these persons have bad pr is as subjective as these persons saying you have bad pr. These persons could take offense at you saying they have bad pr when they consider that you have bad pr and that theirs is fine enough (don't even start on how many people agree with who). Fortunately, they don't because they don't base their listening to remarks on what others do or don't do.
If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.

Kagami

Re: Did Guild change for the better? "Preferation vote topic" 2
#182  September 10, 2008, 07:47:17 pm
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pr what? (i don't even know what that means)

but i can assume that you're all basing facts in assumptions...of what people say is bad, and what you think they say that they consider being bad...

but thats is just assumptions, you have to see the facts...

and the facts is that the actual majority are noobs...which need some learning...

and denying that teaching is actually something contrary of common advancement...is not like if the actual noobs are like us, when we were noobs in 2000...there's a community already formed and with simple bases to follow, and there's already known terms  of common knowledge and basic work...

if we want to "enforce" (or should I say, expose to them the mutual respect rules)  what is "right" then we need to "teach" or else this just leads to the common "itz internetzz, itzz freeee"

"There's a Time to live, There's a Time to Die, But no one can escape The Destiny....."

DKDC

Re: Did Guild change for the better? "Preferation vote topic" 2
#183  September 10, 2008, 07:50:45 pm
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Public relation.
Another possibility could be to wait for them to mature on their own and then come back (I'd point out that sometime we say "we don't have to babysit people" and some other time we say "we can teach them", would that not demand a "make up your mind" response ?). Or we could welcome those who have already matured on their own. It's not like everyone is 12 year old and there is no 17+ year old yet. (on a side-note I think most forums demand that you are at least 13 to register, it's been a while since last time I registered here so I don't know for sure it's the same here, but I figure it's a legal obligation or something ?) Afterall, all this is pretty much the reason rules exist. The difference is only in how you apply / enforce it.
........ I'm just saying this is a possibility, this is only an example of a reply to what you say, not necessarily what I would suggest the most.
If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.
Last Edit: September 10, 2008, 07:55:53 pm by [B]yakko

Iced

Re: Did Guild change for the better? "Preferation vote topic" 2
#184  September 10, 2008, 08:41:42 pm
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[B]yakko said, September 10, 2008, 07:13:36 pm
they don't because they don't base their listening to remarks on what others do or don't do.

I will bite.

While you RS keeps making threads about how bad Guild public relations are, and how crappy its run, and you tell me that RS doesnt harass people, I had kfm , not even two days ago, attempting to get me to ban Warner over spriteswapping two more opensourced characters with permission.
When I refused he claimed that me not caring about warner spriteswapping opensource characters with permission just showed how i wasnt a good mod.
Then he went on a small rant of, and I quote,
Quote
If it was someone doing crappy sprites people wouldn't care. Instead he does good ones and people line up to suck his cock.

Then I have you, telling me that the guild isnt clear enough and that harassing others and pushing their views isnt part of RS normal way of functioning, when I actually see those things going on.
Who was it that persecuted TDS to try to keep him from releasing sprites?
Who was it that tried to force Pots to keep his site closed?
Who was it that is trying to keep warner from "using others work" with permission?

If you dont see those actions as being prone to create more dissonance in the long run I dont see what you could see on them.

Making RS stop trying to police how other foruns work and how others should be doing whatever they are doing would be a HUGE step in public relations and reducing dramas, wanting to influence how others act on behalf of them doing a shitty pr while doing a horrible horrible job at pr is no good.
Hell, the whole ytmnd community hates mugen community over something you guys did! I was even there when that famous Mario fangame coder got deleted for speaking up against people over reacting about leechers.

At which point does it stops being "One or two persons acting badly" to be the actions of a community?


I can understand your concerns byakko, and thank you for presenting them in a fairly more reasonable way than you were doing before, but you have to understand that when people are faced with them and then those actions, it becomes hard to accept them as reasonable unless you go for a "do what we say not what we do" approach.

Jango Hakamichi

Re: Did Guild change for the better? "Preferation vote topic" 2
#185  September 10, 2008, 08:50:08 pm
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Iced said, September 10, 2008, 08:41:42 pm
Hell, the whole ytmnd community hates mugen community over something you guys did!

Reminds me of how the YTP community started disliking the MUGEN community. Someone started a thread about it and its "ethics" that went on for like 4 pages before the mods had to remove it. Or it got buried with people making TF2 threads. Either way nobody knows it exists any more, and most people don't care about it due entirely to the "ethics."

DKDC

Re: Did Guild change for the better? "Preferation vote topic" 2
#186  September 10, 2008, 08:54:14 pm
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Quote
I had kfm , not even two days ago, attempting to get me to ban Warner over spriteswapping two more opensourced characters with permission.
This one turned out to be a mistake (on KFM's part), actually.
A while ago, it seems Sepp mentionned that he would personnally ban Warner if he kept spriteswapping chars (point being that this was when he spriteswapped chars without permission). Apparently KFM didn't notice the recent chars were actually open-source, as it was pointed out only after he brought up Sepp's "promise". AFAIK. Now I don't know if you pointed it out and KFM still insisted...
Quote
Who was it that tried to force Pots to keep his site closed?
This one was more about how PotS started "joining" the move and then left out of the blue. Some felt that retirement as a knife in the back as it was pretty much bombing the whole thing, given you know how popular PotS' creations are. As far as I'm concerned, I do think that it wasn't exactly nice of him to come and then change his mind at the last minute (way to publicly throw a pile of dung on the whole idea and have everyone laugh at it, this was not nice), but I decided to respect his choice - again, as far as I'm concerned. I believe the "harass into keeping his site closed" was initially driven by the feeling of "betrayal". Not that it excuses the whole thing, of course, but it explains it.

Well, that's for about half of your grudges against RS on principle.
If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.
Last Edit: September 10, 2008, 09:00:09 pm by [B]yakko

Iced

Re: Did Guild change for the better? "Preferation vote topic" 2
#187  September 10, 2008, 08:59:17 pm
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  • does this look like the face of mercy?
First thing i pointed out to kfm was that they were opensourced, he insisted.

Kfm always knew that pots didnt planned to keep the site closed for long, he warned him, he still attempted to push it using pots as justification and got mad when pots didnt kept the site closed.POTS was the first one to close site, others started following by imitation, kfm enticed them to do it using him as justification even knowing he would be back. That was also when the private ken stuff happened.

Iced

Re: Did Guild change for the better? "Preferation vote topic" 2
#188  September 10, 2008, 09:09:18 pm
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Just to make sure this is established, there wasnt a motion going on and pots joined, he was the FIRST to close his site, partially as a joke, and even knowing that he got used  as justification, then they got mad at him for not doing what they wanted him to do.

He didnt joined any cause to then throw a knive on anyone back, he got used as a scapegoat by someone that knew how to use the moment.
The simple fact you viewed that in such a way only shows that events ended up played through tinted lenses for everyone around afterwards.

Valodim

Re: Did Guild change for the better? "Preferation vote topic" 2
#189  September 10, 2008, 09:12:39 pm
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this has become a "rub it in" thread by now. well, no, it has been from the start. :(

Kagami

Re: Did Guild change for the better? "Preferation vote topic" 2
#190  September 10, 2008, 09:43:24 pm
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this will become an split topic from the other sliced topic...

uhum...

well, the problem comes when people try to police were they don't have jurisdiction, that's a problem, cause they want to enforce were they don't have neither word , nor action...(and i'm referring to when they want to "close" every site) like the times of warehousing...that's why i always say that this is an educational problem...it's "not wanting to teach and then applicate an exam"...

ohh and about policing...
Quote
If it was someone doing crappy sprites people wouldn't care. Instead he does good ones and people line up to suck his cock.

this is just a complete bitching (on my personal point of view), what does it have to do if someone is making good or bad sprites?, the action is the same isn't it?, so it's all about popularity?, and because he doesn't know shit about coding he has to be "kicked out" or exposed? (if it's opensource i mean), this is just a complete rant on the popularity of his sprites...at least if his using opensource, he doesn't have to be harassed...

"There's a Time to live, There's a Time to Die, But no one can escape The Destiny....."

Just No Point

Re: Did Guild change for the better? "Preferation vote topic" 2
#191  September 10, 2008, 09:52:56 pm
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Ugh, this backstabbing stuff brings up old wounds.

I don't necessarily think that KFM = RS. Not everyone that goes there condones his actions. They just don't usually question them either.

Just like the members that don't question our methods are not mindless Guild fanatics.

Though any conversation that has KFM getting mad at a backstab is mute to me. I won't drag up old things, but it's pretty hard to defend his past actions, and the fact that many times it seems he has not grown out of them really makes RS as a whole not look very appealing since he's the figurehead there and all.

What I am saying, ICED, is that you're "insulting" innocent RS members because of their figure head and a few others that act similar to him.

DKDC

Re: Did Guild change for the better? "Preferation vote topic" 2
#192  September 10, 2008, 09:53:51 pm
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I can't speak for KFM, so I'll just wait if he wants to comment - or not.
But at any rate, whatever RS or KFM do doesn't change anything of my earlier comments about Guild. Like the first post in this page, which got pretty much deviated, or the third.
If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.
Last Edit: September 10, 2008, 09:58:22 pm by [B]yakko

Iced

Re: Did Guild change for the better? "Preferation vote topic" 2
#193  September 10, 2008, 09:54:42 pm
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  • does this look like the face of mercy?
Then RS should abstain of commenting on how horrible guild methods are.

If you want to find a place to clean up, clean up your own place first.

Its hard to get people to listen to you when you seem so dettached that you cant even understand how all those actions done by the head of a site will get people untrusting of those from there.

OZ

Re: Did Guild change for the better? "Preferation vote topic" 2
#194  September 10, 2008, 09:56:29 pm
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Just No Point

Re: Did Guild change for the better? "Preferation vote topic" 2
#195  September 10, 2008, 09:59:26 pm
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Um, if we are doing things that those particular members do not like it would be horrible.

I mean, I just stated that I think KFM did/does horrible things.

Obviously he would think I am doing (or at least allowing) horrible things to occur since our views on most subjects are polar opposites.


I think that the influence RS gives is a bit negative to the community. I would think they* feel the same about us.

*there's that word again *they* shrug... who the hell am I talking about when I say they... heh ah well

DKDC

Re: Did Guild change for the better? "Preferation vote topic" 2
#196  September 10, 2008, 09:59:37 pm
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Quote
Then RS should abstain of commenting on how horrible guild methods are.
Hummmmm no ? Whoever says it doesn't change anything about whether the comment is valid or not. Especially if the topic is about a poll on whether *Guild* has or not changed for the better. I mean... You're asking the question here. You can't exactly say "what do you think ?" and then when the answer doesn't fly your way, say "we don't want an answer from you".
If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.
Last Edit: September 10, 2008, 10:04:17 pm by [B]yakko

Iced

Re: Did Guild change for the better? "Preferation vote topic" 2
#197  September 10, 2008, 10:04:43 pm
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  • does this look like the face of mercy?
A racist will tell you
"That black person is horrible and should die"
a black person might tell you about the same person.
"Thats my uncle james, he is a shoemaker and a pretty decent guy."

I wont take the words of someone whom by connection and past actions might have biased words.

RS has biased words towards the guild.
You yourself were saying that you didnt understand why people were dismissing your points from the RS threads. I explained.

Are you telling me that I shouldnt just because you dont demand balance from your own grounds? I am telling you that I cant take your words with that much weight knowing what I know.

Im sorry, its just as it is. And as Sepp put it about mugen history. As long as I aint lying, I am pretty sure that anyone that might feel hurt by my words will know when they are true.
I know aok, byakko, dio, a ton others use the RS boards and i respect them and talk to them openly, I am not saying they are all "horrible persons". Not at all. But I cant take those actions as being "positive".

And when you said "half of your grudges about rs"? that wasnt even a quarter of what Ive seen over the years.

edit: oh cmon, adding more stuff afterwards makes it look like im avoiding answering you!
I am specifically refering to all your critics that were already happening on rs threads, like on the last thread we "argued" over this theme.

Just No Point

Re: Did Guild change for the better? "Preferation vote topic" 2
#198  September 10, 2008, 10:08:40 pm
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Quote
You can't exactly say "what do you think ?" and then when the answer doesn't fly your way, say "we don't want an answer from you".
This is done all the time from both sides. I figure I have even done it before. It's pretty easy to do actually.

DKDC

Re: Did Guild change for the better? "Preferation vote topic" 2
#199  September 10, 2008, 10:11:43 pm
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Quote
Are you telling me that I shouldnt just because you dont demand balance from your own grounds? I am telling you that I cant take your words with that much weight knowing what I know.
Even when your reason for rejecting the response is not related in any way to the question itself ?
You ask about the success of the evolution of Guild. "RS" might tell you that it went badly ; the reasons for that comment may be valid or biased. ... If a racist person discusses math with you, are you going to dismiss his opinion just because he's racist, even if he's a rocket scientist ? If the arguments are made based on the bias the speaker may have, then you can push it away to a certain degree. But what if it's not ?
This here is currently deviating toward what RS did in the past. This isn't even taking into consideration how valid or not the posts I've been making are. Again, taking for example my first two posts in this page. Where did my posts in page 8 go in the argument on the initial question itself ?
In addition, I don't think the examples you gave in your last post in the previous page are accurate.
If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.
Last Edit: September 10, 2008, 10:15:10 pm by [B]yakko

Davod Sirloin

Re: Did Guild change for the better? "Preferation vote topic" 2
#200  September 10, 2008, 10:14:25 pm
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Math is an exact science, I don't think that's a valid comparison.  :P
Success depends on your definition.
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